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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827163 is a reply to message #827162 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 09:27

nullterm
Messages: 927
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:55

It has to be purely the mental side of the game for Campbell. At 31, he's not old enough that his body should be breaking down so much or his skills have eroded due to age.

He's never been consistent or good at saving high quality chances in his NHL career so he may not need to have his game fall off much to become a mess at the NHL level.

I didn't realize how long his mental health issues were going on. There are multiple articles from his time in Toronto about him struggling mentally, with lots of direct quotes from him. Did Holland and the gang do any research on this player? How could anyone think a mentally fragile goalie could ever be the answer on our team?

As seen in some of the above posts… the goalie market was zilch available, combined with a GM desperate to win with two of the best players on the planet.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827165 is a reply to message #827163 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 09:31

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:27

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:55

It has to be purely the mental side of the game for Campbell. At 31, he's not old enough that his body should be breaking down so much or his skills have eroded due to age.

He's never been consistent or good at saving high quality chances in his NHL career so he may not need to have his game fall off much to become a mess at the NHL level.

I didn't realize how long his mental health issues were going on. There are multiple articles from his time in Toronto about him struggling mentally, with lots of direct quotes from him. Did Holland and the gang do any research on this player? How could anyone think a mentally fragile goalie could ever be the answer on our team?

As seen in some of the above posts… the goalie market was zilch available, combined with a GM desperate to win with two of the best players on the planet.

If only $5Mx5 years could get a GM capable of making good plans and actually making good trades.

It is amazing how much more is available if a GM is able to do more than sign UFA's in the summer and can actually negotiate deals he doesn't lose almost ever time.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827166 is a reply to message #827163 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 09:33

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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nullterm wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:27

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:55

It has to be purely the mental side of the game for Campbell. At 31, he's not old enough that his body should be breaking down so much or his skills have eroded due to age.

He's never been consistent or good at saving high quality chances in his NHL career so he may not need to have his game fall off much to become a mess at the NHL level.

I didn't realize how long his mental health issues were going on. There are multiple articles from his time in Toronto about him struggling mentally, with lots of direct quotes from him. Did Holland and the gang do any research on this player? How could anyone think a mentally fragile goalie could ever be the answer on our team?

As seen in some of the above posts… the goalie market was zilch available, combined with a GM desperate to win with two of the best players on the planet.

Holland had 2 full years to prepare for the 2 summers he had to fix the goaltending. He settled on Campbell.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827167 is a reply to message #827162 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 09:40

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:55

It has to be purely the mental side of the game for Campbell. At 31, he's not old enough that his body should be breaking down so much or his skills have eroded due to age.

He's never been consistent or good at saving high quality chances in his NHL career so he may not need to have his game fall off much to become a mess at the NHL level.

I am not saying he was ever an elite goalie but the previous seasons he posted:
18-19 - 31 GP - 2.29, .928 (Kings)
19-20 - 20GP - 2.85, .900 (Kings)
- 6 GP - 2.63, .915 (Leafs)
20-21 - 22 GP - 2.15, .921
21-22 - 49 GP - 2.64, .914

So prior to coming to the Oilers, he had a pretty decent track record of being back to play at least decent. Again, not saying he was ever elite but he could play. He looks like he can't play.

I don't think a person can blame Schwartz because he wouldn't have worked with him in the summer of 22 after leaving the Leafs and he came to the Oilers and fell off a cliff. This past offseason, I don't know if he worked with Schwartz, I'm assuming he would have continued to work with who ever he normally does in the offseason and again, he looks like he can't play in the NHL.

So something is seriously up with the guy and unless he's hiding some hip injury or something, it doesn't appear to physical in my opinion.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827170 is a reply to message #827167 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 09:52

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:55

It has to be purely the mental side of the game for Campbell. At 31, he's not old enough that his body should be breaking down so much or his skills have eroded due to age.

He's never been consistent or good at saving high quality chances in his NHL career so he may not need to have his game fall off much to become a mess at the NHL level.

I am not saying he was ever an elite goalie but the previous seasons he posted:
18-19 - 31 GP - 2.29, .928 (Kings)
19-20 - 20GP - 2.85, .900 (Kings)
- 6 GP - 2.63, .915 (Leafs)
20-21 - 22 GP - 2.15, .921
21-22 - 49 GP - 2.64, .914

So prior to coming to the Oilers, he had a pretty decent track record of being back to play at least decent. Again, not saying he was ever elite but he could play. He looks like he can't play.

I don't think a person can blame Schwartz because he wouldn't have worked with him in the summer of 22 after leaving the Leafs and he came to the Oilers and fell off a cliff. This past offseason, I don't know if he worked with Schwartz, I'm assuming he would have continued to work with who ever he normally does in the offseason and again, he looks like he can't play in the NHL.

So something is seriously up with the guy and unless he's hiding some hip injury or something, it doesn't appear to physical in my opinion.

The problem with Campbell in Toronto was he was always up and down. Very good one game, very bad the next. They (and the Oilers) needed a tender that would give them .907 every night and Campbell wasn't that guy. When he came here on the big contract with a rookie partner as backup he was set up to fail. Leafs fans knew this was coming.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827171 is a reply to message #827170 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 10:01

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:55

It has to be purely the mental side of the game for Campbell. At 31, he's not old enough that his body should be breaking down so much or his skills have eroded due to age.

He's never been consistent or good at saving high quality chances in his NHL career so he may not need to have his game fall off much to become a mess at the NHL level.

I am not saying he was ever an elite goalie but the previous seasons he posted:
18-19 - 31 GP - 2.29, .928 (Kings)
19-20 - 20GP - 2.85, .900 (Kings)
- 6 GP - 2.63, .915 (Leafs)
20-21 - 22 GP - 2.15, .921
21-22 - 49 GP - 2.64, .914

So prior to coming to the Oilers, he had a pretty decent track record of being back to play at least decent. Again, not saying he was ever elite but he could play. He looks like he can't play.

I don't think a person can blame Schwartz because he wouldn't have worked with him in the summer of 22 after leaving the Leafs and he came to the Oilers and fell off a cliff. This past offseason, I don't know if he worked with Schwartz, I'm assuming he would have continued to work with who ever he normally does in the offseason and again, he looks like he can't play in the NHL.

So something is seriously up with the guy and unless he's hiding some hip injury or something, it doesn't appear to physical in my opinion.

The problem with Campbell in Toronto was he was always up and down. Very good one game, very bad the next. They (and the Oilers) needed a tender that would give them .907 every night and Campbell wasn't that guy. When he came here on the big contract with a rookie partner as backup he was set up to fail. Leafs fans knew this was coming.

I understand he was up and down, that's why I said he was not an elite goalie. There was also risk in signing him to the deal he got. The Leafs tried to resign him but given his contract demands which was he wanted the going rate, the Leafs let him go. Based on what goalies were getting that year, Campbell got market value and the Leafs made the right call in not giving him that. Unfortunately, the Oilers screwed up big time giving him that deal.

Where I disagree with you to a small degree is, I think the Leafs saw him as a guy that wouldn't be worth 5 mill, I doubt they thought he would fall so far that he might be out of the league by the end of this season. Considering they did try to resign him at first, they obviously saw him as a goalie that could play, just not worth 5 mill.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827172 is a reply to message #827171 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 10:26

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 10:01

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 09:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 08:55

It has to be purely the mental side of the game for Campbell. At 31, he's not old enough that his body should be breaking down so much or his skills have eroded due to age.

He's never been consistent or good at saving high quality chances in his NHL career so he may not need to have his game fall off much to become a mess at the NHL level.

I am not saying he was ever an elite goalie but the previous seasons he posted:
18-19 - 31 GP - 2.29, .928 (Kings)
19-20 - 20GP - 2.85, .900 (Kings)
- 6 GP - 2.63, .915 (Leafs)
20-21 - 22 GP - 2.15, .921
21-22 - 49 GP - 2.64, .914

So prior to coming to the Oilers, he had a pretty decent track record of being back to play at least decent. Again, not saying he was ever elite but he could play. He looks like he can't play.

I don't think a person can blame Schwartz because he wouldn't have worked with him in the summer of 22 after leaving the Leafs and he came to the Oilers and fell off a cliff. This past offseason, I don't know if he worked with Schwartz, I'm assuming he would have continued to work with who ever he normally does in the offseason and again, he looks like he can't play in the NHL.

So something is seriously up with the guy and unless he's hiding some hip injury or something, it doesn't appear to physical in my opinion.

The problem with Campbell in Toronto was he was always up and down. Very good one game, very bad the next. They (and the Oilers) needed a tender that would give them .907 every night and Campbell wasn't that guy. When he came here on the big contract with a rookie partner as backup he was set up to fail. Leafs fans knew this was coming.

I understand he was up and down, that's why I said he was not an elite goalie. There was also risk in signing him to the deal he got. The Leafs tried to resign him but given his contract demands which was he wanted the going rate, the Leafs let him go. Based on what goalies were getting that year, Campbell got market value and the Leafs made the right call in not giving him that. Unfortunately, the Oilers screwed up big time giving him that deal.

Where I disagree with you to a small degree is, I think the Leafs saw him as a guy that wouldn't be worth 5 mill, I doubt they thought he would fall so far that he might be out of the league by the end of this season. Considering they did try to resign him at first, they obviously saw him as a goalie that could play, just not worth 5 mill.

I think there was some loyalty felt towards Campbell from Dubas and the leafs. They went through a lot of up and down with him. Walking from a player when you have no replacement is tough, but they did it, and had to play around quite a bit to fill the position again. Took an analytics based risk on Murray that forgot to account for how he was made of glass :)

One thing about Campbell is that his high danger sav% was always extremely poor. Even putting up good sav%, he was still very bad at making tough saves, which can be tracked pretty easily now. He continues to do the same here. Being a backup most of his career probably helped him, and other teams may have played a better style for him, keeping the shot quality down. I would bet that the leafs analytics were highlighting this, which made it much easier to talk themselves into just letting him move on. I'd be curious to know who else was offering him big money. Most analytics departments would have had a huge red flag on him back when he was UFA. We made it pretty easy of course, because we were desperate, and the only way Holland knows how to get stuff in summer is throwing money at UFA's.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827176 is a reply to message #827172 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 11:04

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Campbell got market value for his $$$, however it was another Holland unforced error to sign him for 5 years. We were already calling Skinner our 'goalie of the future'. Knowing what we had, 5x5 was a mistake beforehand and a mistake in hindsight.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827177 is a reply to message #827172 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 11:27

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 10:26

I think there was some loyalty felt towards Campbell from Dubas and the leafs. They went through a lot of up and down with him. Walking from a player when you have no replacement is tough, but they did it, and had to play around quite a bit to fill the position again. Took an analytics based risk on Murray that forgot to account for how he was made of glass :)

One thing about Campbell is that his high danger sav% was always extremely poor. Even putting up good sav%, he was still very bad at making tough saves, which can be tracked pretty easily now. He continues to do the same here. Being a backup most of his career probably helped him, and other teams may have played a better style for him, keeping the shot quality down. I would bet that the leafs analytics were highlighting this, which made it much easier to talk themselves into just letting him move on. I'd be curious to know who else was offering him big money. Most analytics departments would have had a huge red flag on him back when he was UFA. We made it pretty easy of course, because we were desperate, and the only way Holland knows how to get stuff in summer is throwing money at UFA's.

I'm not sure there were a lot of other big offers for him. The Oilers had signaled so hard prior to July 1 that he was coming here. That's been a big hallmark of the Holland era here - leaking their big free agent signing a week before it happens. I assume it's an attempt to scare teams off, because they're saying basically that they're going to beat any offer, but it's pretty debatable whether anyone was giving as much to Hyman, Campbell or Brown if the Oilers didn't offer it. They probably should be selling more to the free agents that this is the best place to come to win, and that they should take a little less even to play with McDavid...but instead we just stake out our territory for several days and pay absolute top dollar. Hyman's covering the bet so far, but it's not a bargain contract. The other two look dreadful.

Campbell isn't a positionally sound goalie. I have this belief that the Oilers brass likes guys like that, because they look like they work so hard. It would explain why they loved Campbell and Smith. But the positionally sound goalies are a little more predictable and stable. Those other guys aren't.

At this stage, I really think the only thing the organization can do is to try to convince Campbell that he got hurt in his last appearance, and that it could be a career ending injury. Otherwise, it's going to cost him $5MM in salary if they buy him out, and there's no way anyone is signing him so he'd have to go to the ECHL or Europe and try to work his way back. No guarantee he doesn't think he can do it, but I think I'd at least have the conversation with him now.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827196 is a reply to message #827177 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 14:05

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Like I said above, I think it's between the ears with Campbell. I wonder if he continues to struggle, does he take a break and the Oilers put him on LTIR? Can you do that for mental health, I am not sure. He was already extremely hard on himself before, was dealing with confidence problems all last year. He supposedly did all this work, it doesn't go great. You get waived, then lit up in the minors. He's got to be shattered mentally.

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827197 is a reply to message #827196 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 14:33

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:05

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

This is specifically disallowed by the CBA. It's article 26, if anyone is interested. If I'm reading it correctly the punishment would be:

The Oilers would lose the equivalent cap space
The Oilers would be fined between 1 and 5 million
Campbell would be fined 1 million dollars and forfeit anything amount deemed to have been unjustly enriching
Bettman would decide what draft picks the Oilers forfeit
Katz would be suspended indefinitely at the sole discretion of the commissioner.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827200 is a reply to message #827197 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 14:53

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:05

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

This is specifically disallowed by the CBA. It's article 26, if anyone is interested. If I'm reading it correctly the punishment would be:

The Oilers would lose the equivalent cap space
The Oilers would be fined between 1 and 5 million
Campbell would be fined 1 million dollars and forfeit anything amount deemed to have been unjustly enriching
Bettman would decide what draft picks the Oilers forfeit
Katz would be suspended indefinitely at the sole discretion of the commissioner.

What's the punishment for deciding a player is just too injured to continue playing, perhaps due to an allergy or mental state?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827203 is a reply to message #827200 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 14:57

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:53

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:05

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

This is specifically disallowed by the CBA. It's article 26, if anyone is interested. If I'm reading it correctly the punishment would be:

The Oilers would lose the equivalent cap space
The Oilers would be fined between 1 and 5 million
Campbell would be fined 1 million dollars and forfeit anything amount deemed to have been unjustly enriching
Bettman would decide what draft picks the Oilers forfeit
Katz would be suspended indefinitely at the sole discretion of the commissioner.

What's the punishment for deciding a player is just too injured to continue playing, perhaps due to an allergy or mental state?

That's a-ok!

Actually it would be pretty interesting from a labor perspective for the mental health aspect to be tested. The CBA does have some exhibits towards the back of the book dealing with insurance and disability.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 November 2023 15:00]

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827204 is a reply to message #827203 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 15:10

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:57

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:53

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:05

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

This is specifically disallowed by the CBA. It's article 26, if anyone is interested. If I'm reading it correctly the punishment would be:

The Oilers would lose the equivalent cap space
The Oilers would be fined between 1 and 5 million
Campbell would be fined 1 million dollars and forfeit anything amount deemed to have been unjustly enriching
Bettman would decide what draft picks the Oilers forfeit
Katz would be suspended indefinitely at the sole discretion of the commissioner.

What's the punishment for deciding a player is just too injured to continue playing, perhaps due to an allergy or mental state?

That's a-ok!

Actually it would be pretty interesting from a labor perspective for the mental health aspect to be tested. The CBA does have some exhibits towards the back of the book dealing with insurance and disability.

Flames are doing it with Kylington. He missed all last year and based on interviews, it was mental health and he left the team again in camp this year, I am not even sure how much of the Flames camp he did.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827205 is a reply to message #827204 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 15:20

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 15:10

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:57

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:53

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:05

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

This is specifically disallowed by the CBA. It's article 26, if anyone is interested. If I'm reading it correctly the punishment would be:

The Oilers would lose the equivalent cap space
The Oilers would be fined between 1 and 5 million
Campbell would be fined 1 million dollars and forfeit anything amount deemed to have been unjustly enriching
Bettman would decide what draft picks the Oilers forfeit
Katz would be suspended indefinitely at the sole discretion of the commissioner.

What's the punishment for deciding a player is just too injured to continue playing, perhaps due to an allergy or mental state?

That's a-ok!

Actually it would be pretty interesting from a labor perspective for the mental health aspect to be tested. The CBA does have some exhibits towards the back of the book dealing with insurance and disability.

Flames are doing it with Kylington. He missed all last year and based on interviews, it was mental health and he left the team again in camp this year, I am not even sure how much of the Flames camp he did.

Then it's time the Oilers put Campbell on LTIR for an undisclosed reason for an expected time of undisclosed.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827207 is a reply to message #827205 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 16:00

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 15:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 15:10

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:57

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:53

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:05

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

This is specifically disallowed by the CBA. It's article 26, if anyone is interested. If I'm reading it correctly the punishment would be:

The Oilers would lose the equivalent cap space
The Oilers would be fined between 1 and 5 million
Campbell would be fined 1 million dollars and forfeit anything amount deemed to have been unjustly enriching
Bettman would decide what draft picks the Oilers forfeit
Katz would be suspended indefinitely at the sole discretion of the commissioner.

What's the punishment for deciding a player is just too injured to continue playing, perhaps due to an allergy or mental state?

That's a-ok!

Actually it would be pretty interesting from a labor perspective for the mental health aspect to be tested. The CBA does have some exhibits towards the back of the book dealing with insurance and disability.

Flames are doing it with Kylington. He missed all last year and based on interviews, it was mental health and he left the team again in camp this year, I am not even sure how much of the Flames camp he did.

Then it's time the Oilers put Campbell on LTIR for an undisclosed reason for an expected time of undisclosed.

I imagine the only issue you have with that approach is a player's pride saying that he is capable of playing still and so doesn't want to just sail off in to the sunset.

But, if the option is a buyout, then he sacrifices $5MM of his remaining $15MM. And given his current trajectory, it's hard to see how he's going to make that much again. Best case scenario maybe he's making half a million a year on a deal in Europe so unless he was to star there and get another shot, that buyout is very expensive for him too...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827263 is a reply to message #827207 ]	Thu, 16 November 2023 10:02

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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If you find yourself in a Lupul situation (I'm fine, they just don't want me to play) you sit him down and tell him, If you still want to get paid to sit at home, shut up.
Exactly what they did.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827264 is a reply to message #827263 ]	Thu, 16 November 2023 10:04

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:02

If you find yourself in a Lupul situation (I'm fine, they just don't want me to play) you sit him down and tell him, If you still want to get paid to sit at home, shut up.
Exactly what they did.

Need to sign Lucky Lou on as an advisor to the GM. He can give the offers players can't refuse that make them stay home and agree they are incapable of playing.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827266 is a reply to message #827263 ]	Thu, 16 November 2023 10:45

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:02

If you find yourself in a Lupul situation (I'm fine, they just don't want me to play) you sit him down and tell him, If you still want to get paid to sit at home, shut up.
Exactly what they did.

There was a lot of danger for the Leafs in the Lupul situation, and they're lucky it resolved the way it did.

I think you have to lay it out for Campbell that he can either be on LTIR and get all his money, or he can get bought out and only get 2/3rds of it. And if ultimately, he doesn't want to play ball, then you buy him out. But that's a $5MM decision for Campbell, and his chances of getting any large amount of that money back in his remaining career aren't great. He may believe in himself though and prefer to bet that he can fight his way back.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827270 is a reply to message #827266 ]	Thu, 16 November 2023 11:53

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:45

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:02

If you find yourself in a Lupul situation (I'm fine, they just don't want me to play) you sit him down and tell him, If you still want to get paid to sit at home, shut up.
Exactly what they did.

There was a lot of danger for the Leafs in the Lupul situation, and they're lucky it resolved the way it did.

I think you have to lay it out for Campbell that he can either be on LTIR and get all his money, or he can get bought out and only get 2/3rds of it. And if ultimately, he doesn't want to play ball, then you buy him out. But that's a $5MM decision for Campbell, and his chances of getting any large amount of that money back in his remaining career aren't great. He may believe in himself though and prefer to bet that he can fight his way back.

Was the Lupul thing that bad? Lupul took some bait online and accidentally implied he could play because he couldn't handle being made fun of. NHL said they would look, but Lucky Lou made a couple calls and it died down really quick.

Just keep Jack off social media :) He probably should anyways for his mental health.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 November 2023 12:05]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827271 is a reply to message #827270 ]	Thu, 16 November 2023 12:38

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 11:53

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:45

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:02

If you find yourself in a Lupul situation (I'm fine, they just don't want me to play) you sit him down and tell him, If you still want to get paid to sit at home, shut up.
Exactly what they did.

There was a lot of danger for the Leafs in the Lupul situation, and they're lucky it resolved the way it did.

I think you have to lay it out for Campbell that he can either be on LTIR and get all his money, or he can get bought out and only get 2/3rds of it. And if ultimately, he doesn't want to play ball, then you buy him out. But that's a $5MM decision for Campbell, and his chances of getting any large amount of that money back in his remaining career aren't great. He may believe in himself though and prefer to bet that he can fight his way back.

Was the Lupul thing that bad? Lupul took some bait online and accidentally implied he could play because he couldn't handle being made fun of. NHL said they would look, but Lucky Lou made a couple calls and it died down really quick.

Just keep Jack off social media :) He probably should anyways for his mental health.

The Oilers do not have a Lou on staff.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827273 is a reply to message #827270 ]	Thu, 16 November 2023 14:43

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 11:53

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:45

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:02

If you find yourself in a Lupul situation (I'm fine, they just don't want me to play) you sit him down and tell him, If you still want to get paid to sit at home, shut up.
Exactly what they did.

There was a lot of danger for the Leafs in the Lupul situation, and they're lucky it resolved the way it did.

I think you have to lay it out for Campbell that he can either be on LTIR and get all his money, or he can get bought out and only get 2/3rds of it. And if ultimately, he doesn't want to play ball, then you buy him out. But that's a $5MM decision for Campbell, and his chances of getting any large amount of that money back in his remaining career aren't great. He may believe in himself though and prefer to bet that he can fight his way back.

Was the Lupul thing that bad? Lupul took some bait online and accidentally implied he could play because he couldn't handle being made fun of. NHL said they would look, but Lucky Lou made a couple calls and it died down really quick.

Just keep Jack off social media :) He probably should anyways for his mental health.

He did include a photo of him skiing...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827274 is a reply to message #827273 ]	Thu, 16 November 2023 17:30

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 14:43

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 11:53

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:45

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 10:02

If you find yourself in a Lupul situation (I'm fine, they just don't want me to play) you sit him down and tell him, If you still want to get paid to sit at home, shut up.
Exactly what they did.

There was a lot of danger for the Leafs in the Lupul situation, and they're lucky it resolved the way it did.

I think you have to lay it out for Campbell that he can either be on LTIR and get all his money, or he can get bought out and only get 2/3rds of it. And if ultimately, he doesn't want to play ball, then you buy him out. But that's a $5MM decision for Campbell, and his chances of getting any large amount of that money back in his remaining career aren't great. He may believe in himself though and prefer to bet that he can fight his way back.

Was the Lupul thing that bad? Lupul took some bait online and accidentally implied he could play because he couldn't handle being made fun of. NHL said they would look, but Lucky Lou made a couple calls and it died down really quick.

Just keep Jack off social media :) He probably should anyways for his mental health.

He did include a photo of him skiing...

Mental health LTIR is probably the easiest. No one in the league would dare question.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827427 is a reply to message #827274 ]	Tue, 21 November 2023 22:42

nullterm
Messages: 927
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

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30 save shutout for Campbell as BAK wins 2-0.

I can't imagine how much better the guy must feel, even for one night. Hope he keeps rolling.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827428 is a reply to message #827427 ]	Tue, 21 November 2023 23:44

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

nullterm wrote on Tue, 21 November 2023 21:42

30 save shutout for Campbell as BAK wins 2-0.

I can't imagine how much better the guy must feel, even for one night. Hope he keeps rolling.

.. a couple steps back from the ledge after tonight for sure.. 👍🏻.. probably needed some time to get refocused to being in the A... hope he finds some Zen on the streets of Bakersfield.. 🧘🏻‍♂️ 🙂

.. I came here looking for something
I couldn't find anywhere else
Hey, I'm not tryin' to be nobody
I just wanna change to be myself

I've spent a thousand miles of thumbin'
Yes, I've worn blisters on my heels
Trying to find me something better
Here on the streets of Bakersfield

Hey, you don't know me, but you don't like me
Say you care less how I feel
But how many of you have sat and judged me
Ever walked the streets of Bakersfield? ..

[Updated on: Tue, 21 November 2023 23:50]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827198 is a reply to message #827196 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 14:42

nullterm
Messages: 927
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 13:05

Like I said above, I think it's between the ears with Campbell. I wonder if he continues to struggle, does he take a break and the Oilers put him on LTIR? Can you do that for mental health, I am not sure. He was already extremely hard on himself before, was dealing with confidence problems all last year. He supposedly did all this work, it doesn't go great. You get waived, then lit up in the minors. He's got to be shattered mentally.

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

Yeah, I dunno what he needs to do. Go find a cabin by a lake to get away from hockey life while waiting for the buy out. Then see if you can find yourself way way out of the spotlight in Europe.

He can stop pucks, but there's something bouncing around in his head keeping him from doing so.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827201 is a reply to message #827198 ]	Wed, 15 November 2023 14:53

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

nullterm wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 14:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 13:05

Like I said above, I think it's between the ears with Campbell. I wonder if he continues to struggle, does he take a break and the Oilers put him on LTIR? Can you do that for mental health, I am not sure. He was already extremely hard on himself before, was dealing with confidence problems all last year. He supposedly did all this work, it doesn't go great. You get waived, then lit up in the minors. He's got to be shattered mentally.

Katz should work out a deal with him. He agrees to terminate his contract and Katz makes him whole by making up a BS position, not with the Oilers but with him personally. Campbell can wander around finding himself or whatever it takes to get himself right.

Yeah, I dunno what he needs to do. Go find a cabin by a lake to get away from hockey life while waiting for the buy out. Then see if you can find yourself way way out of the spotlight in Europe.

He can stop pucks, but there's something bouncing around in his head keeping him from doing so.

Contract aside, if he was completely right he should be able to give you NHL back up play. He can't even do that. I feel for the guy.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827873 is a reply to message #810431 ]	Sun, 03 December 2023 15:16

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

All the recent talk of Campbell coming back up seems to have broken him again. Multiple long range stinker goals in his last AHL game.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827874 is a reply to message #827873 ]	Sun, 03 December 2023 16:44

nullterm
Messages: 927
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 03 December 2023 14:16

All the recent talk of Campbell coming back up seems to have broken him again. Multiple long range stinker goals in his last AHL game.

Starting to wonder if or when the plan will be to play him until he completely breaks and retires. Half joking… I think?

The guy is not mentally prepared for this. And he may never be. And fair enough 99.999% of us wouldn’t be either.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 December 2023 16:46]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827879 is a reply to message #827874 ]	Mon, 04 December 2023 14:35

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 233
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

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doh

This is NOT the news we needed. I wonder why they wont play Pickard more? He looked alright in his brief stint. However I do believe Skinner needs a vet mentor.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #827880 is a reply to message #827879 ]	Mon, 04 December 2023 15:54

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 04 December 2023 14:35

doh

This is NOT the news we needed. I wonder why they wont play Pickard more? He looked alright in his brief stint. However I do believe Skinner needs a vet mentor.

Look at his career stats and you'll see the answer there. He hasn't been a .900+ goalie at the NHL level in ages and ages. Honestly, the bigger question for me is why they're wasting so many starts on Campbell in the AHL. Olivier Rodrigue has barely seen the goal since Campbell arrived in Bakersfield, despite mediocre numbers comparatively. He's 3-4 with a 0.893 save percentage since his demotion. I believe Rodrigue's only got two starts in all that time and he's been bombed for shots in both - above .900 in both losses. Here's the quick rundown of their last 8 games:

Nov 9 - 4-1 loss 20SOG .800
Nov 11 - 4-0 loss 26SOG .846
Nov 14 - 6-3 loss 27SOG .808 (ENG)
Nov 15 - 4-1 loss 41SOG .902 (Rodrigue in goal)
Nov 21 - 2-0 win 30SOG 1.000
Nov 25 - 4-2 loss 37SOG .917 (ENG)
Nov 29 - 4-3 win 42SOG .929
Dec 1 - 4-3 shootout loss 37SOG .919 (Rodrigue in goal)
Dec 2 - 6-4 win 35SOG .886

I'll never understand how the Oilers can feel they are developing their goalies of the future when they always want to have old vets play most of the games instead of the prospects. From here, it looks like the Oilers really believe that Campbell is going to be rehabilitated by playing 6-8 weeks in the AHL, and that he's going to become a viable NHL goalie again. Looking at that list of results though I don't see it.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #828371 is a reply to message #827880 ]	Wed, 27 December 2023 22:23

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 04 December 2023 15:54

NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 04 December 2023 14:35

doh

This is NOT the news we needed. I wonder why they wont play Pickard more? He looked alright in his brief stint. However I do believe Skinner needs a vet mentor.

Look at his career stats and you'll see the answer there. He hasn't been a .900+ goalie at the NHL level in ages and ages. Honestly, the bigger question for me is why they're wasting so many starts on Campbell in the AHL. Olivier Rodrigue has barely seen the goal since Campbell arrived in Bakersfield, despite mediocre numbers comparatively. He's 3-4 with a 0.893 save percentage since his demotion. I believe Rodrigue's only got two starts in all that time and he's been bombed for shots in both - above .900 in both losses. Here's the quick rundown of their last 8 games:

Nov 9 - 4-1 loss 20SOG .800
Nov 11 - 4-0 loss 26SOG .846
Nov 14 - 6-3 loss 27SOG .808 (ENG)
Nov 15 - 4-1 loss 41SOG .902 (Rodrigue in goal)
Nov 21 - 2-0 win 30SOG 1.000
Nov 25 - 4-2 loss 37SOG .917 (ENG)
Nov 29 - 4-3 win 42SOG .929
Dec 1 - 4-3 shootout loss 37SOG .919 (Rodrigue in goal)
Dec 2 - 6-4 win 35SOG .886

I'll never understand how the Oilers can feel they are developing their goalies of the future when they always want to have old vets play most of the games instead of the prospects. From here, it looks like the Oilers really believe that Campbell is going to be rehabilitated by playing 6-8 weeks in the AHL, and that he's going to become a viable NHL goalie again. Looking at that list of results though I don't see it.

I defence of the Condors giving Campbell so many early starts made sense. The bigger investment originally won out, but it’s become more and more clear that Campbell is done in Edmonton.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #828375 is a reply to message #828371 ]	Thu, 28 December 2023 12:33

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Playing Campbell right after they sent him down was always going to be a terrible idea. He’s an emotional dude who was going through a traumatic work event. There was no chance his work wasn’t going to suffer. Foolish Oilers management.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #828369 is a reply to message #810431 ]	Wed, 27 December 2023 22:14

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Campbell has officially lost his starting job to Rodrigue. Rodrigue started the last game and first game back from the Xmas break and has won both games.

Rodrigue (23 years old) had a 2.22 GAA and .935 SV% going into tonight against Vegas’s farm team he stopped 33 of 34 in a 3-1 win. It’s getting close in time to give this kid a couple NHL starts. Pickard could back-up Campbell, but at best it’s split duty for Campbell as long as Rodrigue is developing.

Rodrigue is 5-2-2 on the season while Jack has struggled to 4-6, 3.46 GAA and a .882 SV% since his demotion. I started watching Condor games lately. Rodrigue looks really solid.

FYI. Condors play a hardworking game and Cagguila has lost some steps but he looks good at the AHL level. That being said, the season will have to be going very bad or very good for an April recall reward.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 December 2023 22:26]

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Re: Jack Campbell Signs 5x5 [message #828370 is a reply to message #828369 ]	Wed, 27 December 2023 22:21

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 27 December 2023 22:14

Campbell has officially lost his starting job to Rodrigue. Rodrigue started the last game and first game back from the Xmas break and has won both games.

Rodrigue (23 years old) had a 2.22 GAA and .935 SV% going into tonight’s 2-1 win over Vegas’s farm team and stopped 33 of 34 in a 3-1 win. It’s getting close in time to give this kid a couple NHL starts. Pickard could back-up Campbell, but at best it’s split duty for Campbell as long as Rodrigue is developing.

Rodrigue is 5-2-2 on the season while Jack has struggled to 4-6, 3.46 GAA and a .882 SV% since his demotion. I started watching Condor games lately. Rodrigue looks really solid.

FYI. Condors play a hardworking game and Cagguila has lost some steps but he looks good at the AHL level. That being said, the season will have to be going very bad or very good for an April recall reward.

Damnd it Campbell. Dude really needs an 8 month mental health LTIR break. Possibly another 3 years after that.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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