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Oilers » Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21)

Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827747]	Tue, 28 November 2023 21:30

OilFans
Messages: 1429
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

5 Final (OT) (SO)

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827764 is a reply to message #827747 ]	Tue, 28 November 2023 21:48

HamBlaster
Messages: 797
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

We still need another goalie, and another Dman. Come on Holland.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827765 is a reply to message #827764 ]	Tue, 28 November 2023 21:50

tardigrade81
Messages: 1887
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

1 Cup

Thank God!!

What a win!!!! Beat the knights and the refs

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827768 is a reply to message #827765 ]	Tue, 28 November 2023 21:55

g2k
Messages: 2670
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

2 Cups

tardigrade81 wrote on Tue, 28 November 2023 21:50

Thank God!!

What a win!!!! Beat the knights and the refs

And McLeod actually cut to the net in OT.

I’m going streaking.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827778 is a reply to message #827764 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 05:31

tardigrade81
Messages: 1887
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

1 Cup

HamBlaster wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 04:48

We still need another goalie, and another Dman. Come on Holland.

Big time

Skinner will be burnt out come playoffs if our backup only plays once every 10 games

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827766 is a reply to message #827747 ]	Tue, 28 November 2023 21:51

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

We ain't catching Vegas anyways. Absolutely needed those 2 points. Pretty good game. 4th line fail shift and 3rd line fail shift to with some ref help almost ruined it. But made it through

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827767 is a reply to message #827747 ]	Tue, 28 November 2023 21:53

K.McC#24
Messages: 2827
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Big win to overcome feckless reffing and get 2 points out of this. Huge night for the kill as well.

And a great big feck you to Vegas. You dressed 2 refs and it was enough for a point.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827770 is a reply to message #827747 ]	Tue, 28 November 2023 22:55

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Trade McLeod.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827780 is a reply to message #827770 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 09:01

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 28 November 2023 22:55

Trade McLeod.

I would agree. 3rd line center on a team is pretty important and he's giving them nothing. His last goal was Mar 9, 2023. That was 38 games ago. A guy with that much speed and he drove the net a grand total of 1 time. I don't get what his problem is.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827784 is a reply to message #827780 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 09:46

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 09:01

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 28 November 2023 22:55

Trade McLeod.

Just some perspective on McLeod. He is 4th lowest 5v5 PDO (0.912) in the NHL for players with >200 mins played. Foegele is the lowest (0.893) in the league. It's mainly driven by a 1.54% on ice shooting % for McLeod when he's out there. Insanely low and not really something anyone should expect to continue. Worst PDO in the NHL 5v5 last year was 0.947 (Jaden Schwartz) for 800+ mins. Worst on ice SH% for 800+mins was 5.10% (Girgensons). Basically no regular forward saw anything close to what McLeod is experiencing now over a full season. Dropping to 500+ mins to include all the 4th liners, Glendening was worst with 3.8% Only 3 players in the league out of 593 even semi-regular forwards saw less than 5%. Anyways, really bad luck is a factor here IMO.

McLeod actually has more shots on net/60 than any other season. He is 2nd on the team in shots for % 5v5, the puck is usually going the right way when he's out there which has been a very rare thing to happen over the last decade and a half. Pretty bizzare year for him so far. I'd give the Knob a chance to try to figure something out with the depth players. They certainly need to get to the net more. McLeod probably needs some winger help with that. I don't think Holland is going to find much better out there to replace him any time this season.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 November 2023 09:59]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827786 is a reply to message #827784 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 10:14

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 09:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 09:01

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 28 November 2023 22:55

Trade McLeod.

I respect your opinion and I appreciate what you are saying but I view those as making excuses for a guy flat out not performing.

He hasn't scored a goal in 38 games. He has 1 goal in his last 50 games. I am sorry but saying it's a product of low shooting percentage and good save percentage, I just don't buy it. If he was shooting a ton and being unlucky, I could accept that. He has 29 shots total this season in 21 games. That's 1.38 shots a game. So basically, if he doesn't score on the 1 shot on goal he gets per game, that's it. I don't think that's Ok.

If you look at his stats. Last year he had 82 shots in 71 games last year. So this isn't a product of him being not confident. This is his MO. That's a problem. He doesn't change how he plays. He doesn't go to the net hardly at all. He's one of the fastest guys in the NHL. Take the puck hard to the goal. If he did that consistently, he'd have more than 1.3 shots per game and he'd score more. He's not a 1 shot scorer. Never been. But he won't do it. To me, it's because taking it to the net means you get contact and he avoids contact.

It is a serious problem. A 3rd line center is extremely important for a team and he's not doing it. I gave an option in speculation. Sean Monahan. He's a UFA and the price differenced is 115 K. The Habs are a young team.I'd be offering up McLeod to them.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827787 is a reply to message #827786 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 10:27

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I like players that tilt the ice, perhaps the primary issue for McLeod is that he shouldn't be a center. Let's get him to the wing where he's more likely to get better shooting options and can more freely use his speed. Bring in a 3rd C that can win draws. Foegle's career FO% is at least 49%.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827789 is a reply to message #827787 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 10:36

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 10:27

How is moving to the wing going to help McLeod? He already plays a perimeter game but at least as a center, his position requires him to me more in the middle of the ice. If you push him to the wing, you just pushed him even farther away from the goal position wise. So by being a winger, the player needs to go towards the goal even more to get into scoring places and he doesn't like doing that. He doesn't have a great shot where he can score from distance on the wing so being a winger, you just made it even harder for him to produce offence. Not to mention, wingers generally by the nature of their position of playing closer to the wall, usually are the ones who have to go into corners to go get pucks. Which is also something he doesn't like to do.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827790 is a reply to message #827789 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 10:59

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

by moving him to the wing you allow him to use his speed on breakouts, more often getting opportunities to drive the net like he did in OT last night, trying to beat the last man back. Rather than being the center and moving up the middle, where he drifts to the outside often coming into a 1 on 2 situation.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827791 is a reply to message #827790 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 11:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 10:59

So you think if he's a winger, he will suddenly start driving the net? He hasn't done it in any of the parts of 4 seasons he's been in the NHL so I don't see a position change making that happen but I guess anything is possible.

I'm more into the Vegas school of thought. It's about winning so are you helping the team win or not. McLeod has over 90 games in the AHL, 159 in the NHL and in that time, he hasn't figured out that unless you have an absolute ELITE shot, you can't score unless you get close to the net. He has elite speed and in almost 250 pro games, he hasn't figured out that it's a weapon and he should be driving the net as often as he can. You don't have to be crushing guys but when you are 6'3, almost 190 with that speed, if you are driving to the net every chance you get, it will be extremely hard for most dmen in the NHL to stop you. To stop you, they will have to drag you down. So he should be drawing penalties constantly. He doesn't. If they don't drag you down, then with his speed and size, he should be a scoring chance machine. He's not.

This issue is something that was a knock on him in junior that caused him to fall in the draft. So it's not improving and parts of 6 yrs in pro hockey tells me it's not improving anytime soon. So move the asset before he's worth nothing.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827806 is a reply to message #827791 ]	Thu, 30 November 2023 10:05

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

except he did it vs Vegas in OT. You even commented on it (I believe).
The design of him driving into the offensive zone can be recreated more often if he's a winger, where his speed can be better utilized as a weapon, vs a center, where his speed is more utilized defensively.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #828497 is a reply to message #827806 ]	Tue, 02 January 2024 09:37

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Hey, you guys remember when someone said McLeod would be better on the wing?

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #828499 is a reply to message #828497 ]	Tue, 02 January 2024 11:02

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 02 January 2024 08:37

Hey, you guys remember when someone said McLeod would be better on the wing?

Quote:

..The design of him driving into the offensive zone can be recreated more often if he's a winger, where his speed can be better utilized as a weapon, vs a center, where his speed is more utilized defensively.

You did.. but to be fair I don't think he's been scoring off the rush very much..
The biggest change seems to me is he's with better players, 2 guys that can retain puck possession and shoot/pass the puck.. opposition has to focus on them in the opposition zone.... McLeod is finding the vacant places that result.. and starting to hit the net.. big credit to him

He's a good compliment to Leon.. Leon is not as fast.. having MacLeod skate the puck up into the O-zone and set up a possession cycle is a huge benefit.. takes a big load off of Leon.. they seem to spend less time in the D-zone now.. that line is starting to find some offensive chemistry.. interesting to see how they do the rest of the season 👍🏻

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827794 is a reply to message #827786 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 13:56

stemhovlichski
Messages: 346
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 10:14

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 09:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 09:01

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 28 November 2023 22:55

Trade McLeod.

Are we going to get another Toby Rieder-honouring knockout pool going again for McLeod?

Agreed he owns the perimeter but is useless in close right now.

Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010

"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827795 is a reply to message #827794 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 14:18

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

stemhovlichski wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 10:14

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 09:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 09:01

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 28 November 2023 22:55

Trade McLeod.

Are we going to get another Toby Rieder-honouring knockout pool going again for McLeod?

Agreed he owns the perimeter but is useless in close right now.

Of the forwards that play, only McLeod, Erne and Brown are goal less. Watching that game live, I would say that McLeod is the farthest away from scoring.

Erne only got 6 mins but had 2 really good chances. He had a good tip and almost scored against the Ducks.

Brown was really coming on before he got hurt in the Dallas game. I think he is starting to come around again so I could see him getting on soon.

McLeod, unless he changes dramatically, I don't see it. He doesn't go to the front of the net. When the puck is in the crease area, he's off too the side. Case in point in the 3rd. Shot comes from the point. Ryan who's smaller is in the blue paint and puts it off the post. McLeod is standing off to the side.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827801 is a reply to message #827780 ]	Thu, 30 November 2023 01:43

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2023 08:01

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 28 November 2023 22:55

Trade McLeod.

McLeod totally frustrated me last game.. maybe don't trade him.. yet.. maybe there's still hope that Knobs can do something with him.. ?

I've been a big fan of McLeod ever since he got drafted, blazing elite level speed.. and figured he'd eventually figure out how to use it.. but I'm starting to feel he must have deep rooted psychological issues that prevent him from engaging into the play..

Those same engagement issues have been identified since junior..

Quote:

The Hockey Writers Draft Analysis of Ryan McLeod
"..Ryan McLeod may be one of the most interesting players in the entire 2018 NHL Draft class. While he has all the makings of a star at the next level, there are some areas of his game that he’ll have to work out if he ever wants to even make it to the NHL...

..He’s an intriguing prospect due to his combination of size, speed and high hockey IQ. What makes him a bit more of a risk, however, is the fact that he isn’t overly physical and doesn’t use his body to gain position nearly as often as he should. His intensity level is another glaring issue as teams are always looking for players who consistently prove that they want to improve and succeed..

..Part of that playmaking ability is what makes him such a good center prospect. The intensity issue, however, makes it so that he often shifted from center to the wing and back again depending on the game and depending on the situation."

From the ISS:
“..High end skater and shows ability to accelerate through the neutral zone. Hands are good with ability to release shot in stride. Backcheck and forecheck effort inconsistent. Projects as a third line checking winger at NHL level...”

And I also remember Woodcroft commenting on McLeod's development in the AHL when he was coaching him back down in Bakersfield.. that he plays too much on the perimeter.. too many fly-bys and they were trying to convince him to get more engaged and stop on pucks..

His problems have been identified, and explained to him for a few years now.. through many coaches.. he must have sat through hours of video sessions showing him what to do and what not to do.. yet he still flys on by.. refusing to stop on pucks.. his problems have been communicated to him.. he just can't bring himself to do it..

That's why I'm thinking it has to be psychological .. he knows what he should to do .. he's had enough coaches explaining it to him .. but his head won't allow him.

Perfect example last game was he was forechecking a Vegas defenseman.. skated right at him .. put his stick in.. which caused the D-man to fumble the puck.. puck gets loose.. but.. McLeod had already turned right past him without even looking to see if his forecheck might have turned over a puck.. a classic McLeod fly-by.. like he wasn't aware of the purpose of the forechecking exercise.. which is to hopefully create a turnover.. low game awareness.. low engagement level.

He has so much potential.. elite NHL speed.. good skill levels.. all the tools.. but unable to convert it all into winning hockey games..

.. Maybe a hypnotist ? icon_smile

Also.. he's played the Oiler PK for 17 games and only has 4 blocked shots.. he is 3rd last on the team for shot blocks per 60.. and plays PK.
For comparison Gagner has played 8 games.. no PK and has 6 shot blocks.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 November 2023 01:55]

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827771 is a reply to message #827747 ]	Tue, 28 November 2023 23:07

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Refs must be getting the freebee VIP room when they head back to Vegas.. softest of calls against Oil.. and ignored calls against Vegas.

Skinner not looking to steal many, if any games..

Oilers deserved a 4-2 win.. a few weak efforts led to GA's.

Great game otherwise .. team played way better position.. less odd numbered breaks against.. subtle changes making big differences in chances against.. PK is clicking..
Vegas is a top team that had the benefit of some favourable reffing, and lost.. some positivity creeping back into this Oil soul..

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827774 is a reply to message #827747 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 00:20

Dr. Oil
Messages: 6
Registered: June 2003
Location: BC

No Cups

One area I see a huge difference is in breakouts. Waaaay better puck support, and actual thoughtful puck movement, often utilizing the middle of the ice as opposed to predictable chips up the boards. They seemed to go through the neutral zone carrying the puck as a group a lot more often than they were during the slump, when everything looked disjointed and futile. Hope this continues!

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827779 is a reply to message #827774 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 08:59

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

It was a pretty exciting game to be at. I am very happy they got the 2 much needed points.

The Oilers were the better team for 54 mins. I wouldn't say that Vegas was better in the last 6 to tie it up, they just had things go their way. I don't like blaming refs but they played a part in how the game went. Pretty soft penalties on the Oilers, then 2 absolutely blatant missed calls on Vegas to allow them to come back. McLeod was hauled down in his own end trying to come out. When you compare to what they called trips on the Oilers, I can't believe that wasn't called. Then the Vegas dman gets to pin McD in the corner and rip his stick out of his hands. If that's not holding the stick then I don't know what is.

Vegas got very lucky on the 3rd goal. Goes off 2 Oilers to Hutton, he fires it. I didn't love that goal on Skinner. The 4th goal was on McLeod. Gave the puck away in their own zone, then is standing in front covering no one while Kolesar bats in it. McLeod wasn't good again.

Other than him, I thought the most of the Oilers players were good. Bouchard makes a guy want to cover his eyes in the d zone on almost every shift but I guess that's just how he will be.

The PK. I don't know what Stuart is doing but man it's good. Woody not putting him in charge of it a long time ago is a big mistake as it always sucked under Woody. The Oilers d zone play is night and day better. I don't know if guys are just trying harder, Knoblauch explains how to do it better or probably both but it's better since he took over.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827810 is a reply to message #827779 ]	Thu, 30 November 2023 15:09

goffer48
Messages: 18
Registered: March 2006
Location: Edmonton , Alberta

No Cups

Bouchard ..... as RDOilerfan said ..... " Bouchard makes a guy want to cover his eyes in the d zone on almost every shift" I laughed out loud when I read that.....
I don't look to much at stats, but that guy is a giveaway shmuck. His only saving grace is his shot. For a defenseman, give aways are the worst. IMHO, he should be traded. ,,,, while we can get something decent in return. icon_nod

-Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
-Don't mess with old folks, they didn't get old by being stupid.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827811 is a reply to message #827810 ]	Thu, 30 November 2023 15:17

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

goffer48 wrote on Thu, 30 November 2023 15:09

It was mostly in the OT where I was really nervous with him out there. When you watch on TV, they kind of focus just on the players with the puck, so you don't get to see the rest of the ice as well as you do sitting in the seats.

My company seats are in the second deck, second row from bottom of the second deck so you see the ice fantastic. Watching his casually handle the puck, methodically coming out of the zone with no one behind him, trying to look to fire the cross ice pass, you were just waiting for him to bobble it or do a bad pass and it's a breakaway the other way. When it comes to anything around his own zone, he's always thinking offense, defense doesn't cross his mind and he just seems way too casual in his own zone for my liking.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827783 is a reply to message #827774 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 09:38

K.McC#24
Messages: 2827
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Theyre supporting the breakout better when they need to. Less off and out, less prayer passes up the gut.

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827796 is a reply to message #827783 ]	Wed, 29 November 2023 17:38

tardigrade81
Messages: 1887
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

1 Cup

Oilers and jets tomorrow. Got a buddy going. He’s a jets fan

Beat their ass!!!

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Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #21) [message #827812 is a reply to message #827796 ]	Thu, 30 November 2023 16:51

tardigrade81
Messages: 1887
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

1 Cup

Might even have a IPA for the game

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