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 Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826636]
Mon, 06 November 2023 02:00 Go to next message
OilFans is currently offline OilFans
Messages: 1429
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
2
6 Final
Score Prediction
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Edmonton to win: 69%
Vancouver to win: 31%
16 entries          View all picks   Leaderboard

2023-24 Regular Season
Wednesday, October 11, 2023Edmonton 1 @ Vancouver 8Loss
Saturday, October 14, 2023Vancouver 4 @ Edmonton 3Loss
Monday, November 6, 2023Edmonton 2 @ Vancouver 6Loss
Saturday, April 13, 2024Vancouver 3 @ Edmonton 1Loss
Home Record: 0-2-0       Road Record: 0-2-0       Overall Record: 0-4-0
Home / Road Goals For: 4/3 Total: 7
Home / Road Goals Against: 7/14 Total: 21

2022-23 Regular Season
Wednesday, October 12, 2022Vancouver 3 @ Edmonton 5Win
Friday, December 23, 2022Vancouver 5 @ Edmonton 2Loss
Saturday, January 21, 2023Edmonton 4 @ Vancouver 2Win
Home Record: 1-1-0       Road Record: 1-0-0       Overall Record: 2-1-0
Home / Road Goals For: 7/4 Total: 11
Home / Road Goals Against: 8/2 Total: 10



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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826640 is a reply to message #826636 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Game 11 against the same team they started the season against. They kind of need to forget about the first ten game and restart everything tonight. A good run in their next 10 games will put them in the same spot as they were after 20 last season. All will be forgiven and forgotten.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826642 is a reply to message #826636 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz is currently offline Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006
No Cups
Do or die for Woody. We'll see tonight if the team is playing to get him fired.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826643 is a reply to message #826642 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
No idea what to expect. The majority of the team has been grossly underperforming since game 1. I don't think this team lacks talent. Yes it's not a perfect roster but it's more than good enough as it's constructed to be a lot better than they are. They could come out and play really well or continue on like they haven.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826645 is a reply to message #826636 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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5 Cups
Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826646 is a reply to message #826645 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tardigrade81 is currently offline tardigrade81
Messages: 1886
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
1 Cup
Late game. Won’t be around for this one. I’ll be in bed. Stupid flu

Go oilers

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826648 is a reply to message #826645 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz is currently offline Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006
No Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35

Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin


Who is? I'm not disagreeing, but things don't typically come back from the brink for coaches.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826651 is a reply to message #826648 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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6 Cups
Skoobz wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 12:46

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35

Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin


Who is? I'm not disagreeing, but things don't typically come back from the brink for coaches.

Katz. It all flows down from him until we get to a level the corrupted organization is willing to act and place the blame. Which leads us to...

Skoobz wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 12:50

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 12:31



I think it would be really positive to fire the GM, because it would show that results actually matter to this hockey team, much more so than the legacy of some fossil who's done next to nothing in the 20 or so weeks he's worked the last five years, collecting $25MM for that minimal effort.



There is a zero percent chance that HHOF-bound Ken Holland gets fired in his final season by an OBC org like the Oilers. I assume Coffey is the next guy anyway, so it's just deck chairs on the Titanic.

I also can't imagine the Oilers firing Ken Holland in the last year of his hall of fame career because the Oilers are not an organization focused on winning hockey games. So the coach is next on the list. Fire the coach and hope the players try harder, like that's the problem.

It might work, but it also might be the end of the McDavid - Draisaitl era. It might already be over.


Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826657 is a reply to message #826651 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz is currently offline Skoobz
Messages: 334
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No Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 13:14

Skoobz wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 12:46

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35

Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin


Who is? I'm not disagreeing, but things don't typically come back from the brink for coaches.

Katz. It all flows down from him until we get to a level the corrupted organization is willing to act and place the blame. Which leads us to...



I'd love to know how much involvement he has day to day. I know there are rumours that it is a lot.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826658 is a reply to message #826651 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz is currently offline Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006
No Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 13:14


It might work, but it also might be the end of the McDavid - Draisaitl era. It might already be over.



I've been eternally optimistic about McDavid being a career Oiler. That optimism has left me.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826667 is a reply to message #826648 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski is currently offline stemhovlichski
Messages: 346
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR
No Cups
Skoobz wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 12:46

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35

Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin


Who is? I'm not disagreeing, but things don't typically come back from the brink for coaches.


Just heard MacT on CHED. Go listen to the replay of the show, it was bizarre. MacT blames social media for the Oilers getting criticized, calls the team a great bunch of guys and said, roughly: in 30 years no one will care if you were a good player or not, it's whether you were a good teammate. Anyone criticizing Nurse is a social media loser who doesn't know what a great guy he is. If you say bad things about Nurse's performance on the ice you are essentially insulting his parents. Connor and Leon are great guys but if social media criticizes them they'll be gone.

MacT is completely out of touch with reality and his comments reflect brutally on the Oilers as an organization. Criticism, constructive or otherwise, will not be tolerated. The job of the fans is to support the team even if they're playing like the Sharks. Why? Because they're really great guys to be around. The only result that matters is off the ice.

golf



Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010

"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826659 is a reply to message #826645 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35

Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin


I was talking with mightyreasoner about this on the weekend. While I don't think Woodcroft is the biggest problem, I don't think he's showing that well right now, and I probably won't shed a lot of tears for him if he gets axed.

He came in and made some bold moves originally. He seemed to trust the bottom six more than his predecessors, and they rewarded him by actually producing. The regular season coaching he did, from the point where it looked like they were dead in the water in early February, until the start of the playoffs was the most inspired we've seen from him.

Then, it was like all McLellan's teaching kicked in. He failed to adjust in the post-season and struggled to get past the Kings. McDavid & Draisaitl went to another level against the Flames and pretty much crushed them on their own, and then against Colorado, he just seemed to have no answers. We saw virtually no changes to the strategy to try to protect the weak goaltending, or to insulate a Duncan Keith on his last legs. Despite McDavid and Draisaitl finishing #1 and #2 in scoring despite missing the fourth round, the team dropped four straight to the Avs.

Last year, he never seemed to rekindle what he'd had previously. He started to show a real fear about playing young players in important situations. He still got a lot more out of the depth than we'd had in prior years, but at even strength, there were clearly some serious issues with the team that were covered up only because our special teams were really good. We knew all year though that we had sub-par goaltending and 5v5 wasn't that strong, and so when those issues sunk us in the playoffs (where again we saw no adaptation from Woodcroft to the strategies other teams were employing), it wasn't a huge shock.

Ultimately, Woody has a decent winning percentage, and he's been overall better than Tippett or McLellan. I appreciate that he's much MUCH less likely to throw his players under the bus game in, game out than the previous two.

I think he made a mistake of talking up his defensive scheme coming in to the year - and that's blown up in his face. He currently has the defence playing bottom third of the league hockey, the depth as non-factors on the positive side for the entire year, and despite McDavid and Draisaitl, one of the lowest scoring teams. He's also failed to build any positivity behind either goalie. While that isn't entirely on him by any extent, when things are this bad, coaches get fired.

The biggest argument to me for not firing Woodcroft is really just that the guy in the seat above him doesn't deserve to get another shot at picking the right coach.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826663 is a reply to message #826659 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 14:25

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35

Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin


I was talking with mightyreasoner about this on the weekend. While I don't think Woodcroft is the biggest problem, I don't think he's showing that well right now, and I probably won't shed a lot of tears for him if he gets axed.

He came in and made some bold moves originally. He seemed to trust the bottom six more than his predecessors, and they rewarded him by actually producing. The regular season coaching he did, from the point where it looked like they were dead in the water in early February, until the start of the playoffs was the most inspired we've seen from him.

Then, it was like all McLellan's teaching kicked in. He failed to adjust in the post-season and struggled to get past the Kings. McDavid & Draisaitl went to another level against the Flames and pretty much crushed them on their own, and then against Colorado, he just seemed to have no answers. We saw virtually no changes to the strategy to try to protect the weak goaltending, or to insulate a Duncan Keith on his last legs. Despite McDavid and Draisaitl finishing #1 and #2 in scoring despite missing the fourth round, the team dropped four straight to the Avs.

Last year, he never seemed to rekindle what he'd had previously. He started to show a real fear about playing young players in important situations. He still got a lot more out of the depth than we'd had in prior years, but at even strength, there were clearly some serious issues with the team that were covered up only because our special teams were really good. We knew all year though that we had sub-par goaltending and 5v5 wasn't that strong, and so when those issues sunk us in the playoffs (where again we saw no adaptation from Woodcroft to the strategies other teams were employing), it wasn't a huge shock.

Ultimately, Woody has a decent winning percentage, and he's been overall better than Tippett or McLellan. I appreciate that he's much MUCH less likely to throw his players under the bus game in, game out than the previous two.

I think he made a mistake of talking up his defensive scheme coming in to the year - and that's blown up in his face. He currently has the defence playing bottom third of the league hockey, the depth as non-factors on the positive side for the entire year, and despite McDavid and Draisaitl, one of the lowest scoring teams. He's also failed to build any positivity behind either goalie. While that isn't entirely on him by any extent, when things are this bad, coaches get fired.

The biggest argument to me for not firing Woodcroft is really just that the guy in the seat above him doesn't deserve to get another shot at picking the right coach.


That's the fun about following this team. You have all these various degrees of not great in every spot except your top 2 centers, it's hard to focus on what change could improve the team the most.

Maybe we need some kind of rating system from 1-10. 1 is the position is current in a state of pure trash and needs fixing ASAP. 5, it's mediocre but could still win a cup with them by having enough strength in other areas. 10 is McDavid/Drai tier.

Just a simple trial

Forward group:
Top 6: 8 (6 if McDavid is injured and keeps playing like he has been. Even when McDavid is on, the wingers are pretty useless at playmaking, so stacked top line seems like it's going to keep being inevitable, leaving a weak 2nd line)
Bottom 6: 4 (lots of meh)

D group
LHD: 6 (Probably close to 8 if last year Ekholm comes back)
RHD: 4 (Need an upgrade on Ceci or Desharnais)

Goaltending: 2 (Skinner might still have something in him if we could ever get his confidence back)

Coaching: 5 (Got spanked by Cassidy, but McDrai can still overcome that, as long as there isn't a complete disaster happening in our end. Not really feeling that Woody actually brings much to the table these days, but maybe he learns to adjust)

GM: 1 (We all know exactly why)

Amateur scouting: 1
Pro scouting: 1
New people in for both of those, so maybe early to judge, but recent history is pretty awful.


Ownership: 2 (willing to spend to cap bonus point, but endlessly making the org stuck with terrible management)



Personally, I vote firing Holland before anything else.

[Updated on: Mon, 06 November 2023 16:51]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826668 is a reply to message #826645 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 20:04 Go to previous message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2120
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
2 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 06 November 2023 11:35

Woodcroft isn’t THE problem…

#MUSTWin


I completely agree. Sometimes a team takes on the character listics of their coaching staff, but for a nice Manson and Gully offset and are definitely bad cops.

This team is confusing. I do not know what to expect but all I do know is that I hate the late game after time change. Hopefully I’m tired and happy tomorrow.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #11) [message #826665 is a reply to message #826636 ]
Mon, 06 November 2023 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 927
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
No Cups
Going up game.

In Canucks territory.

Pray for me.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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