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Oilers » Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10)

Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826596]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:30

OilFans
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Location: Edmonton

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826599 is a reply to message #826596 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:41

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

2-7-1

This season has been far worse that I thought possible and while I don’t think they’re this bad, it might be time to do something.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826600 is a reply to message #826596 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:42

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

We're basically watching the 2012/13 season. Analytics look good. Results terrible because teams are just easily picking us apart and exposing weaknesses we are more than happy to just leave opened. It's almost by design for us to play offense like wimps on the perimeter and allow wide open chances around our net. We have goalies with zero confidence now too, just like Eakins created.

Team looking pretty doomed. Time to fire Holland before he trades away all our draft picks for the next 3 years for another Connor Brown.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826605 is a reply to message #826600 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:49

K.McC#24
Messages: 2827
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 15:42

I'd say at this point you let him trade picks and Campbell to get Campbell off this roster, then you fire him.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826610 is a reply to message #826605 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:52

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 15:49

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 15:42

I'd say at this point you let him trade picks and Campbell to get Campbell off this roster, then you fire him.

I don't trust Holland to get the better end of any deal. Let someone else trade Campbell. I don't see any reason to allow Holland to do a single thing now. He stinks.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826613 is a reply to message #826610 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 16:21

nullterm
Messages: 927
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

No Cups

Holland has got to go first. First and foremost we are cap locked and not competitive. And that is entirely on him.

Woody next under microscope after that.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826614 is a reply to message #826613 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 16:42

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:21

Holland has got to go first. First and foremost we are cap locked and not competitive. And that is entirely on him.

Woody next under microscope after that.

I don’t think they have the gumption to fire holland right now. Firing Chia mid-season when they were already done (and right after a ridiculous goalie signing) is one thing. Kenneth “old Dutch” Holland? I’m willing to be proved wrong, but I have my doubts.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826615 is a reply to message #826614 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 17:30

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2343
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:42

nullterm wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:21

Holland has got to go first. First and foremost we are cap locked and not competitive. And that is entirely on him.

Woody next under microscope after that.

The OBC always loves to give their guys entire seasons to prove how useless they are. I think Chia got canned mainly because the fan backlash against how awful the team was so loud that the Oil front office had to make a PR move.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826616 is a reply to message #826615 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 18:09

Adam
Messages: 6822
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 17:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:42

nullterm wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:21

Holland has got to go first. First and foremost we are cap locked and not competitive. And that is entirely on him.

Woody next under microscope after that.

I think the team wants to let Holland (and possibly Nicholson) go out "on their terms" at the end of this season. Holland will be done his contract, and can declare that he's finished the job he set out to do setting the team on the path to success, if not basking in the success that comes with a Stanley Cup finish.

That said, the trajectory that this team is on could force the organization to make some decisions a little early. One would think that the indecision around the Chiarelli hire - leading to several desperate trades, and an impulse long-term contract handed to a sub-par goaltender - would show the Oilers the dangers of letting the lame duck continue to drive the boat, but who knows.

One of the big problems I see is that if they were to axe Woodcroft, you ideally wouldn't want to have Ken Holland making the next coaching hire, and committing the next GM to whatever contract he hands out to bring that person in. And if I'm Jackson, I have to be thinking that this current path makes it certain that Draisaitl won't sign an early extension...so better get on making some hard decisions.

Also, with a different GM in place, there's some slim hope that he'll have some clever ability to negotiate the cap hell that the team finds it in and find a way to acquire a new goaltender and who knows, maybe even play with a full roster for a few games!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826617 is a reply to message #826616 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 22:28

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

They’ve back themselves into a corner again. We’ll see if the prioritize trying to win hockey games or their image. It’s sad because it’s all so predictable.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826619 is a reply to message #826616 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 22:42

nullterm
Messages: 927
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

No Cups

Adam wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 17:09

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 17:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:42

nullterm wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:21

Holland has got to go first. First and foremost we are cap locked and not competitive. And that is entirely on him.

Woody next under microscope after that.

There's always giving Kenny the pat on the back and insisting he retires, or bring in the new guy and say it's a "transition" or "mentorship" period to the new guy.

Publicly you save face for both parties, but behind closed doors the new guy is free to make his changes.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826602 is a reply to message #826596 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:43

JPro
Messages: 785
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

The way Succession’s Logan Roy describes his children is the same way I feel about this team: This is not a serious organization.

It’s not run seriously nor by serious people.

With that understanding in place, the results are not surprising despite having some of the best players in the world. I tune in, and I’m no longer disappointed because this isn’t a surprise anymore. Clock is ticking before McDavid is gone and I find a new sport/hobby. It’s a shame to draw the short straw with this being the team I’m a fan of.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826603 is a reply to message #826602 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:45

tardigrade81
Messages: 1886
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

1 Cup

Embarrassing

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826609 is a reply to message #826602 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 15:52

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

JPro wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 15:43

This is what I’ve seen too. The Oilers want to build pretty things, have nice parties, sell real estate, glad hand with important people, and hype up the future by using the past but they are not committed to winning hockey games as an organization. The players, coaches, and maybe GMs don’t matter when everyone in the organization isn’t focused on the right things.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826612 is a reply to message #826596 ]	Sat, 04 November 2023 16:06

cpcos
Messages: 21
Registered: March 2013

No Cups

Absolutely nothing is working….no attack…. no defence, no system in place.
It is clear that there is huge internal conflict into the room.
Woody benched Skinner because he left practice….
We are not going to turn this around…

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826625 is a reply to message #826612 ]	Sun, 05 November 2023 09:28

oiltec
Messages: 84
Registered: December 2022

No Cups

cpcos wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 22:06

Also you have to wonder whether McD's injury really requires surgery. If that is the case isn't it better to do so now and sit him out for a month(s) then he should be ready for the playoffs.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826626 is a reply to message #826612 ]	Sun, 05 November 2023 09:56

Adam
Messages: 6822
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

cpcos wrote on Sat, 04 November 2023 16:06

I would tend to disagree here.

The way the Oilers have played the last two games, they should generally win both. We outshot and outchanced both teams and controlled play for huge sections of the game. The problem is goaltending.

Could finishing and defence be a little better? Absolutely. We're apparently now 11th worst in the league at allowing high danger chances - ideally, a team looking to win a Stanley Cup would be well in to the 20s on that stat. We're currently 27th in goals for, and have not a sniff from our third and fourth line (I'm not even counting the Gagner goals because he's done that playing with top-six players). Obviously, that needs to be a lot better, but I think sometimes there's some luck attached to that. If we have a lot of 50 shot games we're going to get scoring at some point.

But the netminding has been beyond abysmal and that's soul-crushing for the team. When we score early and then immediately the Predators score on a wrap-around where Campbell is on the absolute wrong side of the net - that's a lot of wind out of the sails. When the Stars goalie makes several huge saves, only to have Skinner whiff on an easy unscreened shot from the hash marks, that's a killer. We have the worst goaltending in the league - and that is a hole that badly needs patching.

And sadly, it's maybe the most difficult one to patch in-season, but it's pretty critical that they address it. I still wonder what they could have got if they dealt Skinner while he was a Calder nominee in the summer...

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826627 is a reply to message #826626 ]	Sun, 05 November 2023 11:12

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

IMO, there are maybe a handful of goalies that could keep their confidence up long term with the way we defend the rush and in our zone. And I don't trust Holland to get any of them. I think most others, we will grind down into the ground like all the rest before. Schwartz may be a significant multiplying factor to how fast any new Oilers goalie will regress.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826630 is a reply to message #826627 ]	Sun, 05 November 2023 14:16

Adam
Messages: 6822
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 05 November 2023 11:12

As I said, there's definitely other areas of the team to worry about, but both these guys have major flaws in their games and have just not been able to perform at a level that gives us any expectation of success. They are not seeing anywhere close to the most high danger shots against - they just can't stop almost any high danger chance.

And it's not like we haven't seen the act from both guys before. They're just losing games for us. Saw NHL Analyst Mike Kelly on twitter today saying that in both games where the Oilers have had a positive goaltending performance, they've won, but every single other game this year, they're playing below replacement level and that's costing us games.

It is possible that the possession game that the Oilers have been playing in the opposition zone leaves them a little vulnerable to counter-attack, but you need to get a save sometimes. I was saying to some friends yesterday - while when Foegele has a breakaway, it's hard to even get excited now because you know it's not going in, the reverse is true for a breakaway on Skinner or Campbell. It seems a huge longshot that either will stop it so may as well just skate to center the second someone pulls away from their mark.

I think the shooting percentage for the Oilers is going to go way up yet. We've hit a lot of posts, we're getting good chances in a lot of these games. I think that the defence is capable of tightening up - certainly, there are some veterans making bad decisions, and we're still at risk of being beaten by speed any time that Desharnais is on the ice. But I'm not sure that the goalie answers are in-house. Skinner got a good stretch last year, but how much was other team's not having much of a book on him yet? It seems like the Kings and Knights both figured out that puzzle last year and everyone seems to know it now. Campbell? Well, despite all his commitment in the off-season, and all the plaudits that Stauffer, Spector and others gave him for being good at stopping AHLers in pre-season, he's not a great goalie. He's positionally weak, and his athleticism is failing to get him back in to the path of pucks. Might have been good to ask why the Leafs preferred Matt Murray coming off some terrible seasons to him prior to giving him a huge contract.

If we're going to give this team any fighting chance of success this year, we need a goalie solution soon - or it isn't going to matter if they fix some of the defensive coverage and start converting a few more shots in to goals...

Agreed on Holland though - first step is to flush Old Dutch.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #10) [message #826631 is a reply to message #826630 ]	Sun, 05 November 2023 16:00

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Sun, 05 November 2023 14:16

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 05 November 2023 11:12

As it stands today, definitely, both these goalies look cooked. Like, end of Talbot's and Dubnyk's time here kind of cooked. Personally, I think they have better to give, but the situation is now such that it's like climbing Mount Everest for them to get their games back. And Schwartz and Woody and Holland and how the team plays are throwing rocks at them while they try to climb. And maybe they're not even that good of climbers, but that's largely on the scouts and GM then because we chose to commit long term to both. We have all the time in the world to evaluate Campbell before deciding he was the guy. Those same decision makers would be the people finding the next goalie.

If we do want to bring in a legit elite goalie, maybe the timing would be best to do it around the deadline. Less time to get beaten down. Catch is that we need to be in a playoff spot still :) But if we can find a way to just survive, and fire Holland and get actual competent goalie scouting going to pick some targets, maybe it can all work out in the end. Tall order, hope Jackson is thinking hard right now.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 November 2023 16:02]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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