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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824630 is a reply to message #824628 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 09:23

inverno76
Messages: 2141
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:14

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

Box scores win hockey drafts for the fans. Fancy stats win championships for the team. I have been converted.

I see a player who was on a 15 goal pace playing under 10 mins a night. In my opinion there is value in that. You need guys in your bottom 6 who aren't just out there killing time until your main guys are rested. They have to find away to make an impact in limited shifts. He did that. So I have a hard time throwing a guy away like that. But there is a limit to how much I would be willing to pay him given his high shooting percentage and at times mistakes. My limit would be around 1.25 mill at the most. He's still establishing himself as an NHLer but I can't ignore the fact he scored all those goals. I would tell him if you do what you did last year, we can talk extension next year when the cap goes up but they need to see more. Expecting a guy who scored at his pace playing as little mins as he did to take barely above league min, I think is completely ridiculous.

I see value in the box scores, I also see value in the fancy stats. I watched a player in JP for many years put up great fancy stats but he couldn't hit a wide open net. So I think there needs to be a bit of a balance between the 2.

I agree we need more of a balance. 6-5 games are entertaining, but give me a 3-1 victory everyday of the week. If JP could score he'd be a 5M player, but now he's a overpaid 3M skater. Like Kostin, but seeya later if you want to get paid after finally cracking an NHL lineup. His agent might be providing him some bad advice if he wants to remain in the NHL.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824631 is a reply to message #824630 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 09:30

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:14

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

Box scores win hockey drafts for the fans. Fancy stats win championships for the team. I have been converted.

I see a player who was on a 15 goal pace playing under 10 mins a night. In my opinion there is value in that. You need guys in your bottom 6 who aren't just out there killing time until your main guys are rested. They have to find away to make an impact in limited shifts. He did that. So I have a hard time throwing a guy away like that. But there is a limit to how much I would be willing to pay him given his high shooting percentage and at times mistakes. My limit would be around 1.25 mill at the most. He's still establishing himself as an NHLer but I can't ignore the fact he scored all those goals. I would tell him if you do what you did last year, we can talk extension next year when the cap goes up but they need to see more. Expecting a guy who scored at his pace playing as little mins as he did to take barely above league min, I think is completely ridiculous.

I see value in the box scores, I also see value in the fancy stats. I watched a player in JP for many years put up great fancy stats but he couldn't hit a wide open net. So I think there needs to be a bit of a balance between the 2.

I agree we need more of a balance. 6-5 games are entertaining, but give me a 3-1 victory everyday of the week. If JP could score he'd be a 5M player, but now he's a overpaid 3M skater. Like Kostin, but seeya later if you want to get paid after finally cracking an NHL lineup. His agent might be providing him some bad advice if he wants to remain in the NHL.

As a team, the Oilers need to play a bit tighter defensively but they still need guys in the bottom 6 who can produce and not need to be on McD's or Leon's wing. When you have McD and Leon, you are going to want their lines on the ice a lot. So their lines are going to get their 20 mins a night regardless of who's in the bottom 6 but they still need guys in their bottom 6 who in limited mins can produce. Kostin produced goals not being on McD or Leon's wing in very limited time. But my number is around 1.25 mill for Kostin. If he doesn't work out, while not ideal, you can bury that amount in the minors. But if he can get more of the trust of the coach and continue on scoring close too 15 goals, then they can talk about paying him a bit more.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824632 is a reply to message #824630 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 09:32

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7646
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:14

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

Box scores win hockey drafts for the fans. Fancy stats win championships for the team. I have been converted.

I see a player who was on a 15 goal pace playing under 10 mins a night. In my opinion there is value in that. You need guys in your bottom 6 who aren't just out there killing time until your main guys are rested. They have to find away to make an impact in limited shifts. He did that. So I have a hard time throwing a guy away like that. But there is a limit to how much I would be willing to pay him given his high shooting percentage and at times mistakes. My limit would be around 1.25 mill at the most. He's still establishing himself as an NHLer but I can't ignore the fact he scored all those goals. I would tell him if you do what you did last year, we can talk extension next year when the cap goes up but they need to see more. Expecting a guy who scored at his pace playing as little mins as he did to take barely above league min, I think is completely ridiculous.

I see value in the box scores, I also see value in the fancy stats. I watched a player in JP for many years put up great fancy stats but he couldn't hit a wide open net. So I think there needs to be a bit of a balance between the 2.

I agree we need more of a balance. 6-5 games are entertaining, but give me a 3-1 victory everyday of the week. If JP could score he'd be a 5M player, but now he's a overpaid 3M skater. Like Kostin, but seeya later if you want to get paid after finally cracking an NHL lineup. His agent might be providing him some bad advice if he wants to remain in the NHL.

The the Oilers are designed to win 6-5 in the regular season. This is confusing to people when the scoring inevitably dries up in the playoffs because the games get tighter and bad teams are no longer on the schedule for some reason. Klim stopping 15 goals and scoring 5 is far more important than Klim scoring 15 and stopping 5.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824647 is a reply to message #824630 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 13:53

Steve
Messages: 106
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:14

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

Box scores win hockey drafts for the fans. Fancy stats win championships for the team. I have been converted.

I see a player who was on a 15 goal pace playing under 10 mins a night. In my opinion there is value in that. You need guys in your bottom 6 who aren't just out there killing time until your main guys are rested. They have to find away to make an impact in limited shifts. He did that. So I have a hard time throwing a guy away like that. But there is a limit to how much I would be willing to pay him given his high shooting percentage and at times mistakes. My limit would be around 1.25 mill at the most. He's still establishing himself as an NHLer but I can't ignore the fact he scored all those goals. I would tell him if you do what you did last year, we can talk extension next year when the cap goes up but they need to see more. Expecting a guy who scored at his pace playing as little mins as he did to take barely above league min, I think is completely ridiculous.

I see value in the box scores, I also see value in the fancy stats. I watched a player in JP for many years put up great fancy stats but he couldn't hit a wide open net. So I think there needs to be a bit of a balance between the 2.

I agree we need more of a balance. 6-5 games are entertaining, but give me a 3-1 victory everyday of the week. If JP could score he'd be a 5M player, but now he's a overpaid 3M skater. Like Kostin, but seeya later if you want to get paid after finally cracking an NHL lineup. His agent might be providing him some bad advice if he wants to remain in the NHL.

Interesting comparison, because JP and Kostin are polar opposites. One is good defensively and has good possession stats, but can't handle the puck. The other is a great shooter, but sucks in possession.

Kostin is a fun guy, but there is a reason why he was getting limited minutes. The coach couldn't trust him not to take a stupid penalty or to whiff on his defensive coverage. Despite his goals they didn't make up for his mistakes. I'm OK if they let him go, and I'm guessing Woody is too.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824627 is a reply to message #824625 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 09:07

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

I don't think it's foolish at all. His shooting percentage was a hair under 20% last year. Do you think that's likely to continue? Teams make mistakes when they look at things like goals in isolation. Yes, he had decent goal production last year, but when you look at the analytics, he was getting killed whenever he was on the ice and the puck spent way too much time in his own zone. You could question whether that was a team issue, but relative to his peers, he's much worse which suggests some culpability. The shooting percentage piece is also pretty important. He was a 12% shooter the year before, did he suddenly just become more lethal? Or is maybe luck more of a factor, and is he primed for a regression?

If I'm a GM talking to an agent who's laying out why his client should get close to $2MM per year, I'm absolutely bringing up these concerns and explaining why the $1MM/year is really all I can do.

And if he's dead set on getting more, then it's time to move on, and I think I'd be pretty open about that. There's no point really negotiating if they're way out to lunch and I don't really believe that he's about to become one of the highest paid players in the KHL next year so I'd make a final offer - maaaaaaaybe stretching all the way to $1.1MM, and then I'd start looking at who the replacement candidates are on the market this summer.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824634 is a reply to message #824627 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 10:21

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

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I keep hearing that this free agent class isn't very good so I am curious to see if guys are going to get grossly overpaid more so that they usually do at this time of year. I see that the Leafs just resigned Kampf who scored 7 goals for them to a 4 yr deal at 2.5 mill. That seems like a pretty high price for a 4th line center. According to Mirtle, there was belief he could maybe get 3 mill on the open market. How is a 7 goal guy worth 3 mill?

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824636 is a reply to message #824634 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 10:32

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:21

I keep hearing that this free agent class isn't very good so I am curious to see if guys are going to get grossly overpaid more so that they usually do at this time of year. I see that the Leafs just resigned Kampf who scored 7 goals for them to a 4 yr deal at 2.5 mill. That seems like a pretty high price for a 4th line center. According to Mirtle, there was belief he could maybe get 3 mill on the open market. How is a 7 goal guy worth 3 mill?

That's an indication that they shouldn't have let Dubas leave. That's just a terrible deal.

Kampf is 28 years old, and has a career high of 27 points. There's a lot of bad GMs out there and one of the minefields is trying to build your lineup knowing that at any moment one of these morons could throw a massive offer at a guy who doesn't deserve it - and that always creates ripples.

That deal is reminiscent of the deal Matt Hendricks got from Nashville. He was a useful player and a good soldier, but he was destined to be badly overpaid from the second he signed it. We'll see if the Leafs don't end up having to pay to get rid of that at some point.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824637 is a reply to message #824636 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

inverno76
Messages: 2141
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824638 is a reply to message #824637 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 10:57

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

I love Craig Conroy.

https://smartcdn.gprod.postmedia.digital/calgarysun/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/0523-conroy-f.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=375&sig=uafZRMBFj40sZoTQnNoiWA

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824639 is a reply to message #824637 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 10:58

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

When I heard the trade I had to look the guy up because I'd never heard of him before but he plays in New Jersey. If he can score 20 or more like he did a year ago, it might not be a bad contract but if he's the 13 goal guy this past season, that doesn't look so great. I thought the Flames might get a little more for Toffoli just because of the season he just had and the free agent mark looks pretty weak so at just over 4.25 mill for a guy that can get you 25 goals, that's pretty decent value for Toffoli. But I really don't know much about Sharangovich so maybe it's fine. Who knows.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 June 2023 11:00]

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824652 is a reply to message #824639 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 15:50

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

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I have this feeling that there won't be any takers for Yamo unless you attach an asset which is disappointing.

I flip it around and if I am a GM of another team, do I want to take back a very undersized player, who has OK skill but not great, doesn't have much of a shot, skates OK but not great and has head/neck problems due to his size and how he has to play to do anything that also makes 3.1 mill?

The answer is not really unless you give me something for him. I wouldn't be advocating the Oilers to trade for him if he was on another team.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824655 is a reply to message #824639 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 20:01

Kr55
Messages: 9697
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:58

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

When I heard the trade I had to look the guy up because I'd never heard of him before but he plays in New Jersey. If he can score 20 or more like he did a year ago, it might not be a bad contract but if he's the 13 goal guy this past season, that doesn't look so great. I thought the Flames might get a little more for Toffoli just because of the season he just had and the free agent mark looks pretty weak so at just over 4.25 mill for a guy that can get you 25 goals, that's pretty decent value for Toffoli. But I really don't know much about Sharangovich so maybe it's fine. Who knows.

Didn't recognize the name either. At first I thought they got Siegenthaler which would have sucked. Pleasant surprised when I was able to click the name to the nhl.com player page :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824657 is a reply to message #824655 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 20:41

NetBOG
Messages: 2874
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 20:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:58

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

When I heard the trade I had to look the guy up because I'd never heard of him before but he plays in New Jersey. If he can score 20 or more like he did a year ago, it might not be a bad contract but if he's the 13 goal guy this past season, that doesn't look so great. I thought the Flames might get a little more for Toffoli just because of the season he just had and the free agent mark looks pretty weak so at just over 4.25 mill for a guy that can get you 25 goals, that's pretty decent value for Toffoli. But I really don't know much about Sharangovich so maybe it's fine. Who knows.

Didn't recognize the name either. At first I thought they got Siegenthaler which would have sucked. Pleasant surprised when I was able to click the name to the nhl.com player page :)

He supplies most of what Toffoli brings, is 10 years younger, and half the price. Plus a bonus 3rd round pick.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824660 is a reply to message #824657 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 21:25

inverno76
Messages: 2141
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 20:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 20:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:58

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

When I heard the trade I had to look the guy up because I'd never heard of him before but he plays in New Jersey. If he can score 20 or more like he did a year ago, it might not be a bad contract but if he's the 13 goal guy this past season, that doesn't look so great. I thought the Flames might get a little more for Toffoli just because of the season he just had and the free agent mark looks pretty weak so at just over 4.25 mill for a guy that can get you 25 goals, that's pretty decent value for Toffoli. But I really don't know much about Sharangovich so maybe it's fine. Who knows.

Didn't recognize the name either. At first I thought they got Siegenthaler which would have sucked. Pleasant surprised when I was able to click the name to the nhl.com player page :)

He supplies most of what Toffoli brings, is 10 years younger, and half the price. Plus a bonus 3rd round pick.

Much faster than Toffoli too. Decent gamble bringing him in, but that’s an overpay for what he’s done so far.

That being said, GM’s are tossing around cash like the cap is taking a significant bump next season.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824661 is a reply to message #824657 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 21:41

Kr55
Messages: 9697
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 20:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 20:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:58

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

When I heard the trade I had to look the guy up because I'd never heard of him before but he plays in New Jersey. If he can score 20 or more like he did a year ago, it might not be a bad contract but if he's the 13 goal guy this past season, that doesn't look so great. I thought the Flames might get a little more for Toffoli just because of the season he just had and the free agent mark looks pretty weak so at just over 4.25 mill for a guy that can get you 25 goals, that's pretty decent value for Toffoli. But I really don't know much about Sharangovich so maybe it's fine. Who knows.

Didn't recognize the name either. At first I thought they got Siegenthaler which would have sucked. Pleasant surprised when I was able to click the name to the nhl.com player page :)

He supplies most of what Toffoli brings, is 10 years younger, and half the price. Plus a bonus 3rd round pick.

Toffoli was an elite 2-way forward for them. Possibly their best overall performer of the last season.

Sharangovich somehow managed to be -3 on a dominant 5v5 team. Only minus among regular players this season. Nearly the worst on the team in terms of analytics. Can see why the Devils would have been shopping him, hoping someone bites on him being big and young.

This is a huge downgrade in the lineup for the Lames IMO. Toffoli was dragging that sad sack team on his back this year. Gotta hope for a lot of other guys to rebound to make up for it.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 June 2023 21:44]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824663 is a reply to message #824661 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 08:20

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 21:41

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 20:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 20:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:58

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 10:44

Sharangovich getting paid. 3.1M cap hit on his two year extension.

When I heard the trade I had to look the guy up because I'd never heard of him before but he plays in New Jersey. If he can score 20 or more like he did a year ago, it might not be a bad contract but if he's the 13 goal guy this past season, that doesn't look so great. I thought the Flames might get a little more for Toffoli just because of the season he just had and the free agent mark looks pretty weak so at just over 4.25 mill for a guy that can get you 25 goals, that's pretty decent value for Toffoli. But I really don't know much about Sharangovich so maybe it's fine. Who knows.

Didn't recognize the name either. At first I thought they got Siegenthaler which would have sucked. Pleasant surprised when I was able to click the name to the nhl.com player page :)

He supplies most of what Toffoli brings, is 10 years younger, and half the price. Plus a bonus 3rd round pick.

Toffoli was an elite 2-way forward for them. Possibly their best overall performer of the last season.

Sharangovich somehow managed to be -3 on a dominant 5v5 team. Only minus among regular players this season. Nearly the worst on the team in terms of analytics. Can see why the Devils would have been shopping him, hoping someone bites on him being big and young.

This is a huge downgrade in the lineup for the Lames IMO. Toffoli was dragging that sad sack team on his back this year. Gotta hope for a lot of other guys to rebound to make up for it.

Man, suggesting that Sharangovich is "most of what Toffoli brings" is a hilarious take. Toffoli was almost a point a game last year, and he's on an absolute bargain contract. Calgary will be paying only a million less for a guy who's never had a 40-point season. It ain't close.

And the third round pick is meaningless for at least the next 3-4 years. Maybe someday it'll be something but for now it's simply a lottery ticket. And odds of it being a winning ticket are low.

That was a great deal for New Jersey and a brutal one for Calgary. Although I guess the Flames fans can be content that they didn't get back a Taylor Hall or Paul Coffey in return I guess.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824664 is a reply to message #824663 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 09:12

NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 08:20

the third round pick is meaningless

You and Ken Holland think extremely alike.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824699 is a reply to message #824664 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 12:08

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:12

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 08:20

the third round pick is meaningless

You and Ken Holland think extremely alike.

You cut the part where it gives a time frame. If you think that you're likely to get any impact out of a 3rd round pick in the first three years after the draft, I'd like to see your stats on that.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824707 is a reply to message #824110 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Quote:

Ryan Rishaug
@TSNRyanRishaug

It’s gonna have to be a bridge - they know it and we know it “.

Holland on Bouchard.

So much for anyone hoping for a creative, smart solution to make sure we don't have to pay Bouchard $10MM/year in a couple seasons...

With the Yamamoto deal, I think this does indicate that Holland's planning on spending (over-spending?) on someone on July 1. There's smoke around the Connor Brown rumours...although you would hope that he wasn't that expensive after playing only 4 games last year. It's been a very long time since he played a full season.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824712 is a reply to message #824707 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 12:49

inverno76
Messages: 2141
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38

Quote:

Ryan Rishaug
@TSNRyanRishaug

It’s gonna have to be a bridge - they know it and we know it “.

Holland on Bouchard.

So much for anyone hoping for a creative, smart solution to make sure we don't have to pay Bouchard $10MM/year in a couple seasons...

With the Yamamoto deal, I think this does indicate that Holland's planning on spending (over-spending?) on someone on July 1. There's smoke around the Connor Brown rumours...although you would hope that he wasn't that expensive after playing only 4 games last year. It's been a very long time since he played a full season.

Seravalli believes he will be offered multi year deals in the 3M+ range, and if he gets that I hope its somewhere else. Best case scenario he signs for cheap on an incentive based deal that runs alongside the cap jumping up next season.

[Updated on: Thu, 29 June 2023 14:58]

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824714 is a reply to message #824712 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 12:57

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:49

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38

Quote:

Ryan Rishaug
@TSNRyanRishaug

It’s gonna have to be a bridge - they know it and we know it “.

Holland on Bouchard.

So much for anyone hoping for a creative, smart solution to make sure we don't have to pay Bouchard $10MM/year in a couple seasons...

With the Yamamoto deal, I think this does indicate that Holland's planning on spending (over-spending?) on someone on July 1. There's smoke around the Connor Brown rumours...although you would hope that he wasn't that expensive after playing only 4 games last year. It's been a very long time since he played a full season.

Seravalli believes he will be offered multi year deals in the 3M+ range, and if he gets that I hope its somewhere else. Bets case scenario he signs for cheap on an incentive based deal that runs alongside the cap jumping up next season.

Chris Johnson saying he thinks Brown is going to the Oilers with a low dollar, incentives deal. The Oilers are in the drivers seat. Whatever that means.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824732 is a reply to message #824714 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 15:01

inverno76
Messages: 2141
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:57

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:49

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38

Quote:

Ryan Rishaug
@TSNRyanRishaug

It’s gonna have to be a bridge - they know it and we know it “.

Holland on Bouchard.

So much for anyone hoping for a creative, smart solution to make sure we don't have to pay Bouchard $10MM/year in a couple seasons...

With the Yamamoto deal, I think this does indicate that Holland's planning on spending (over-spending?) on someone on July 1. There's smoke around the Connor Brown rumours...although you would hope that he wasn't that expensive after playing only 4 games last year. It's been a very long time since he played a full season.

Seravalli believes he will be offered multi year deals in the 3M+ range, and if he gets that I hope its somewhere else. Bets case scenario he signs for cheap on an incentive based deal that runs alongside the cap jumping up next season.

Chris Johnson saying he thinks Brown is going to the Oilers with a low dollar, incentives deal. The Oilers are in the drivers seat. Whatever that means.

I think that narrative is supported by the notion he will get his best opportunity to prop up his numbers with one of, or a combination of Connor and Leon on a one year deal and then cash in one a long-term deal.

Essentially he is willing to bet on himself. We will see on Saturday.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824736 is a reply to message #824732 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 15:12

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:57

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:49

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38

Quote:

Ryan Rishaug
@TSNRyanRishaug

It’s gonna have to be a bridge - they know it and we know it “.

Holland on Bouchard.

So much for anyone hoping for a creative, smart solution to make sure we don't have to pay Bouchard $10MM/year in a couple seasons...

With the Yamamoto deal, I think this does indicate that Holland's planning on spending (over-spending?) on someone on July 1. There's smoke around the Connor Brown rumours...although you would hope that he wasn't that expensive after playing only 4 games last year. It's been a very long time since he played a full season.

Seravalli believes he will be offered multi year deals in the 3M+ range, and if he gets that I hope its somewhere else. Bets case scenario he signs for cheap on an incentive based deal that runs alongside the cap jumping up next season.

Chris Johnson saying he thinks Brown is going to the Oilers with a low dollar, incentives deal. The Oilers are in the drivers seat. Whatever that means.

I think that narrative is supported by the notion he will get his best opportunity to prop up his numbers with one of, or a combination of Connor and Leon on a one year deal and then cash in one a long-term deal.

Essentially he is willing to bet on himself. We will see on Saturday.

If there is other offers, I am sure there will be longer term deals. I can't see the money being huge given the injury but he will have to weigh risking longer term security. If he signs with the Oilers and plays most of the season, it's pretty likely he will have a good year and give him a way better change to earn more money next season when the cap goes up.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824735 is a reply to message #824707 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 15:11

Kr55
Messages: 9697
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38

Quote:

Ryan Rishaug
@TSNRyanRishaug

It’s gonna have to be a bridge - they know it and we know it “.

Holland on Bouchard.

So much for anyone hoping for a creative, smart solution to make sure we don't have to pay Bouchard $10MM/year in a couple seasons...

With the Yamamoto deal, I think this does indicate that Holland's planning on spending (over-spending?) on someone on July 1. There's smoke around the Connor Brown rumours...although you would hope that he wasn't that expensive after playing only 4 games last year. It's been a very long time since he played a full season.

They know it because we suck at managing the cap. Holland knows it because he sucks at the cap.

I guess if everyone knows it, then that's what'll happen! A rare Holland guarantee

[Updated on: Thu, 29 June 2023 15:14]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824781 is a reply to message #824735 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:05

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Being report. Janmark resigned 1yr - 1 mill. No issue for me with that contract.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824784 is a reply to message #824781 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:12

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3924
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:05

Being report. Janmark resigned 1yr - 1 mill. No issue for me with that contract.

That's good value.. plus its 1 year..

He's sneaky good.. great on the PK, and can add some points 5v5

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824786 is a reply to message #824784 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3732
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:05

Being report. Janmark resigned 1yr - 1 mill. No issue for me with that contract.

That's good value.. plus its 1 year..

He's sneaky good.. great on the PK, and can add some points 5v5

I thought he was a decent signing last year. 10 g, 25 pts in 66 games. That's a 12 goal, 31 pt pace plus good on the PK. They get him this year for 250K less. I think that's a pretty good signing.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824792 is a reply to message #824784 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:47

Kr55
Messages: 9697
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:05

Being report. Janmark resigned 1yr - 1 mill. No issue for me with that contract.

That's good value.. plus its 1 year..

He's sneaky good.. great on the PK, and can add some points 5v5

And the odd horribly timed wild stick swing! Ugh, it still burns.

Anyways, 1 year is good.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824809 is a reply to message #824110 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 15:16

smyth260
Messages: 954
Registered: November 2007

No Cups

Surprised Daniel Sprong wasn’t qualified.

Scored 21 goals for the Kraken in only 66 games. Had a shooting percentage in the 14s which is highish but still useful.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824810 is a reply to message #824809 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 15:20

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:16

Surprised Daniel Sprong wasn’t qualified.

Scored 21 goals for the Kraken in only 66 games. Had a shooting percentage in the 14s which is highish but still useful.

I don't get it at all. Only played 11:25 per game, and averaged 2.5 shots a game. Even with a little regression on shooting percentage, he's still extremely useful as a depth guy.

Maybe the expectation is that he was going to demand a big raise and they were better off finding a cheap replacement? We'll see where he ends up - he's definitely someone I'd have interest in if I was in Holland's shoes. He was only $1.5MM last year so at that he is great value for the money.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824813 is a reply to message #824810 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 15:45

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:20

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:16

Surprised Daniel Sprong wasn’t qualified.

Scored 21 goals for the Kraken in only 66 games. Had a shooting percentage in the 14s which is highish but still useful.

I don't get it at all. Only played 11:25 per game, and averaged 2.5 shots a game. Even with a little regression on shooting percentage, he's still extremely useful as a depth guy.

Maybe the expectation is that he was going to demand a big raise and they were better off finding a cheap replacement? We'll see where he ends up - he's definitely someone I'd have interest in if I was in Holland's shoes. He was only $1.5MM last year so at that he is great value for the money.

Does he have arbitration rights? Just thinking this through, maybe Seattle was worried they'd be forced in to a contract they couldn't afford.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824816 is a reply to message #824813 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 16:07

welcometotheOC
Messages: 615
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:45

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:20

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:16

Surprised Daniel Sprong wasn’t qualified.

Scored 21 goals for the Kraken in only 66 games. Had a shooting percentage in the 14s which is highish but still useful.

I don't get it at all. Only played 11:25 per game, and averaged 2.5 shots a game. Even with a little regression on shooting percentage, he's still extremely useful as a depth guy.

Maybe the expectation is that he was going to demand a big raise and they were better off finding a cheap replacement? We'll see where he ends up - he's definitely someone I'd have interest in if I was in Holland's shoes. He was only $1.5MM last year so at that he is great value for the money.

Does he have arbitration rights? Just thinking this through, maybe Seattle was worried they'd be forced in to a contract they couldn't afford.

You mean like Yams? He was signed to avoid an arbitration ruling that probably would have been higher than what they signed him for. Yet, you don't seem to account for that in Yamamoto's case , instead just being critical of Holland for signing him at the $3M+ value . Given your comments above, would you rather the Oilers have traded him just when he seemed to be hitting his stride, so to speak?

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824818 is a reply to message #824816 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 16:41

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 16:07

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:45

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:20

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:16

Surprised Daniel Sprong wasn’t qualified.

Scored 21 goals for the Kraken in only 66 games. Had a shooting percentage in the 14s which is highish but still useful.

I don't get it at all. Only played 11:25 per game, and averaged 2.5 shots a game. Even with a little regression on shooting percentage, he's still extremely useful as a depth guy.

Maybe the expectation is that he was going to demand a big raise and they were better off finding a cheap replacement? We'll see where he ends up - he's definitely someone I'd have interest in if I was in Holland's shoes. He was only $1.5MM last year so at that he is great value for the money.

Does he have arbitration rights? Just thinking this through, maybe Seattle was worried they'd be forced in to a contract they couldn't afford.

You mean like Yams? He was signed to avoid an arbitration ruling that probably would have been higher than what they signed him for. Yet, you don't seem to account for that in Yamamoto's case , instead just being critical of Holland for signing him at the $3M+ value . Given your comments above, would you rather the Oilers have traded him just when he seemed to be hitting his stride, so to speak?

I don't think I was praising this from Seattle, was I?

It's interesting to see a bunch of teams walking from players who have arb rights this year - we haven't seen a lot of that in the past, and it steps up UFA status for these guys, but suggests that the teams believe the arbitration numbers have been too high. It's interesting that they're not even making that case though to the arbitrator.

I'm amused to see how many people are irritated about the Yamamoto thing, especially given that I've been relatively muted in my criticism of the specific trade - saying very specifically that it could be a lot worse. As it is, it's a weird trade where neither GM did well in the end! And arguably, Yzerman does worse if Kostin either doesn't sign or signs at an inflated number. So there you go, if not losing as much as the other guy is a win, then Holland just won a trade!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824819 is a reply to message #824818 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 17:02

welcometotheOC
Messages: 615
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 16:41

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 16:07

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:45

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:20

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:16

Surprised Daniel Sprong wasn’t qualified.

Scored 21 goals for the Kraken in only 66 games. Had a shooting percentage in the 14s which is highish but still useful.

I don't get it at all. Only played 11:25 per game, and averaged 2.5 shots a game. Even with a little regression on shooting percentage, he's still extremely useful as a depth guy.

Maybe the expectation is that he was going to demand a big raise and they were better off finding a cheap replacement? We'll see where he ends up - he's definitely someone I'd have interest in if I was in Holland's shoes. He was only $1.5MM last year so at that he is great value for the money.

Does he have arbitration rights? Just thinking this through, maybe Seattle was worried they'd be forced in to a contract they couldn't afford.

You mean like Yams? He was signed to avoid an arbitration ruling that probably would have been higher than what they signed him for. Yet, you don't seem to account for that in Yamamoto's case , instead just being critical of Holland for signing him at the $3M+ value . Given your comments above, would you rather the Oilers have traded him just when he seemed to be hitting his stride, so to speak?

I don't think I was praising this from Seattle, was I?

It's interesting to see a bunch of teams walking from players who have arb rights this year - we haven't seen a lot of that in the past, and it steps up UFA status for these guys, but suggests that the teams believe the arbitration numbers have been too high. It's interesting that they're not even making that case though to the arbitrator.

I'm amused to see how many people are irritated about the Yamamoto thing, especially given that I've been relatively muted in my criticism of the specific trade - saying very specifically that it could be a lot worse. As it is, it's a weird trade where neither GM did well in the end! And arguably, Yzerman does worse if Kostin either doesn't sign or signs at an inflated number. So there you go, if not losing as much as the other guy is a win, then Holland just won a trade!

I think Yzerman had heard the Oilers and Kostin were far apart in their negotiations and inquired about him. He probably offered a low draft pick, and Holland - having few or no prospects for trading Yamamoto, said not to the picks or low end player and said, here, take Yams and he's a cheap buyout - I get cap space (lower case!) and you get a shot at Kostin for relatively low cost before anyone else.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824827 is a reply to message #824818 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 18:47

airdrieoil
Messages: 6
Registered: November 2007
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

I don't understand the sentiment on the Yamo trade. Kostin was not going to sign here so He is berely even an asset at this point and they were talking about having to buy out yamo. We got rid of Yamo's contract and all it cost us was a player that was going to walk for nothing.

I like Kostin I wish we could have resigned him but not at 2mil a season. at this point that would handicap us and keep us from being able to full other needs or just keep other players that are more vital to out overall success.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824849 is a reply to message #824827 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 11:55

NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 917
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

No Cups

Speculation on ON that Caggiula is on his way back here on a league min deal.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824820 is a reply to message #824110 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 17:11

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3924
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Here are today's UFA's due not being qualified... (arb rights risk.. same as Kostin) .. some good talent here.. take a look then get on the phone Kenny.. talk someone into league min. x 1

Quote:

@pharling
Players of interest not QO and now UFAs

Daniel Sprong

Cal Foote

Rasmussen Asplund

Isaac Ratcliffe

Markus Nurmi

Sam Steel

Mike McLeod

Jesper Boqvist

Nathan Bastian

Nolan Patrick

Tyson Jost

Kale Clague

Morgan Geekie

Lias Andersson

Zack MacEwen

Jaret Anderson-Dolan

Aiden Dudas

[Updated on: Fri, 30 June 2023 18:04]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824850 is a reply to message #824820 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 12:21

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 712
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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I'd make an offer on Tyson Jost or Sam Steel

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824856 is a reply to message #824850 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 13:22

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Sat, 01 July 2023 12:21

I'd make an offer on Tyson Jost or Sam Steel

I'd want to be sure Sam Steel isn't about to get implicated in the Team Canada mess before I did anything to bring him in.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824866 is a reply to message #824856 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 16:56

inverno76
Messages: 2141
Registered: September 2005
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2 Cups

I’d have time for Morgan Geekie. Mike McLeod too, but isn’t he connected to that scandal too?

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824869 is a reply to message #824866 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 17:29

Adam
Messages: 6837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Sat, 01 July 2023 16:56

I’d have time for Morgan Geekie. Mike McLeod too, but isn’t he connected to that scandal too?

Geekie is off the market already. Boston got him. 2 years at $2MM per.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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