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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824745 is a reply to message #824738 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 16:00

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:22

The core is set. I would like to see Kane moved, but this what we can expect going forward. We are papering over our holes on a year to year basis. The bottom 6 will have a couple changes. The top 6 will have a player slide in and out. The core is there to stay for the parade.

The defense is the question mark.

Another thought. Would you rather have a set roster with no wiggle room, or some cap space for deadline acquisitions? Some Ekholm-like deals will be available in the spring of 2024.

The core is set, but the core isn't good enough to win. Yammo is not the reason the Oilers aren't a real contender. We're tinkering around the edges on our Indy car and wondering why the F1 teams blow us out of the water.

I want wiggle room. All day, everyday. An organization has to be able to move and adapt as unforeseen circumstances inevitably arise. Unfortunately the Oilers, because of mismanagement, have bought themselves exactly 2 days of wiggle room. They're looking at another season with a 21 man roster because it's set in stone. I figuratively eat my hat if if the Cap Space isn't spent and the roster isn't basically set by Saturday night.

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:17

What happens if his desired outcome is to make the team as good as possible? I am no Holland fanboy, but this narrative that his team is lost at sea is a bit conjecture. I thought Holland has made some decent moves in the last calendar year (I am completely ignoring the Campbell albatross).

We also turned a 5th into Grubbe, which is kinda move up on the draft board. Also I am not sure if anyone noticed but the draft floor was relatively quiet with GM's holding onto their picks.

I have no doubt Ken would like to make the team as good as possible. Where I have my doubts is his ability to make that happen. He certainly has a plan, but I've seen nothing to suggest that his plan will manifest as anywhere good enough on the ice. Swapping out an overpriced Yammo for whatever deck chair he has in mind Saturday isn't going to move the team's needle. He simply has a plan and hope.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824747 is a reply to message #824745 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 18:06

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 16:00

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:22

The core is set. I would like to see Kane moved, but this what we can expect going forward. We are papering over our holes on a year to year basis. The bottom 6 will have a couple changes. The top 6 will have a player slide in and out. The core is there to stay for the parade.

The defense is the question mark.

Another thought. Would you rather have a set roster with no wiggle room, or some cap space for deadline acquisitions? Some Ekholm-like deals will be available in the spring of 2024.

The core is set, but the core isn't good enough to win. Yammo is not the reason the Oilers aren't a real contender. We're tinkering around the edges on our Indy car and wondering why the F1 teams blow us out of the water.

I want wiggle room. All day, everyday. An organization has to be able to move and adapt as unforeseen circumstances inevitably arise. Unfortunately the Oilers, because of mismanagement, have bought themselves exactly 2 days of wiggle room. They're looking at another season with a 21 man roster because it's set in stone. I figuratively eat my hat if if the Cap Space isn't spent and the roster isn't basically set by Saturday night.

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:17

What happens if his desired outcome is to make the team as good as possible? I am no Holland fanboy, but this narrative that his team is lost at sea is a bit conjecture. I thought Holland has made some decent moves in the last calendar year (I am completely ignoring the Campbell albatross).

We also turned a 5th into Grubbe, which is kinda move up on the draft board. Also I am not sure if anyone noticed but the draft floor was relatively quiet with GM's holding onto their picks.

I have no doubt Ken would like to make the team as good as possible. Where I have my doubts is his ability to make that happen. He certainly has a plan, but I've seen nothing to suggest that his plan will manifest as anywhere good enough on the ice. Swapping out an overpriced Yammo for whatever deck chair he has in mind Saturday isn't going to move the team's needle. He simply has a plan and hope.

Not to mention his plan is built on huge flaws. He talks about them all the time - like the importance of older players to the roster, and not wanting to rely on younger players in depth roles.

If you look at a lot of the successful teams in the cap era, they're successful because they use good young players on cheap deals. The Oilers instead prefer to have more 30-year olds on the team who might play 'responsibly' - even if that doesn't line up with any of the actual data on them.

He's also stuck on the opinion he cannot improve the team and that cap space is the reason why. A better GM would be looking for solutions, not simply complaining to the media that the cap (which is the same for all teams, remember) hasn't gone up as much as he thought it might.

Even today, he's saying that he's stuck with bridge deals because the cap, and he couldn't afford to pay Kostin because of the cap, and he'd have liked to keep Yamo and thinks his salary was not an overpay, but that damn cap again.

It's super concerning going into maybe the most important couple years in team history, that the GM is stymied in to inaction because the team is too close to the cap, based on all the deals he signed.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824757 is a reply to message #824745 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 08:57

Jay
Messages: 245
Registered: January 2007
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 16:00

The core is set, but the core isn't good enough to win. Yammo is not the reason the Oilers aren't a real contender. We're tinkering around the edges on our Indy car and wondering why the F1 teams blow us out of the water.

I want wiggle room. All day, everyday. An organization has to be able to move and adapt as unforeseen circumstances inevitably arise. Unfortunately the Oilers, because of mismanagement, have bought themselves exactly 2 days of wiggle room. They're looking at another season with a 21 man roster because it's set in stone. I figuratively eat my hat if if the Cap Space isn't spent and the roster isn't basically set by Saturday night.

I disagree that this team isn't good enough to win. If it weren't for the absurd circumstances and league endorsement of Petrangelo chasing around the best player in the playoffs with his stick raised over his head to slash him then the Oilers beat the Knights. And probably win the cup. They aren't perfect but they were good enough to win this year. Other things came into play - mostly self induced (coaching decisions to play certain players together, not make obvious goaltending changes etc) but they weren't that far off.

I do agree though that Oilers management gets almost no credit for that. They stumbled into 29 and 97. I don't think Hymen or Kane signed here due to some crazy shrewd wheeling and dealing by Ken Holland - they signed because 29 and 97 are here.

Holland completely bungled the Nurse contract to the point of making it an immovable boat anchor when it didn't have to be. And I can't wrap my head around this obsession with announcing to the world when you have a player that you want to move on from. I just don't understand how it's in the teams best interest to (consistently) devalue their assets down to nothing and then beg other teams to take them off their hands. I could see Mcleod being the next similar type player.

I'm struggling to think of a good thing that Holland has done that isn't directly attributable to having 29 and 97 signed when he took the job. I guess the Ekholm trade.

"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824679 is a reply to message #824665 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 10:19

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Well dang, Klim just out the door for playing hard ball. Guess his loss. He could have made a fortune here. All he needed was 1-2 months with McDavid or Drai in a 1 year deal.

I guess yay cap space. Need a top 6 winger badly. I don't feel like Holloway is gonna just step in there.

Yzerman zero risk play, think he's pretty happy right now. If he negotiates Klim down to ~1M, it will be annoying.

[Updated on: Thu, 29 June 2023 10:21]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824689 is a reply to message #824679 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 11:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

What always surprises me in this site and I need to just get over it as it won't change, is how often there are posters who's response to things is basically NHL GM's are dumb so the Oilers should be able to get something for their trash.

Yamo is a very undersized, not overly fast, doesn't have a very good shot, only has mediocre skill, often injured, extremely streaky player who had a pretty poor season and a brutal playoff. As if that isn't bad enough, he's probably making twice what he should. The only thing he has going for him is his age. If an Oiler fan didn't know who he was, if you looked at his stats at the salary he makes and what he lacks, most fans would probably think he's a waste of time and not worth having on the Oilers. Most fans would definitely not want the GM to trade for him and if they did trade for him, they would freak out if they gave up anything other than futures.

So a team looks at all of what Yamo is, then you look at who he played with pretty much exclusively. He played with either McD, the undisputed best, most gifted offensive player in the world or Leon who is probably top 5 and Yamo produced squat. There is no value there right now. He's worth NOTHING especially considering he makes way too much money. The same Oilers fans who are going off thinking the Oilers should have got an asset for him, would be the same guys losing their minds if the Oilers traded anything at all to get him.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824690 is a reply to message #824689 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 11:31

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:22

What always surprises me in this site and I need to just get over it as it won't change, is how often there are posters who's response to things is basically NHL GM's are dumb so the Oilers should be able to get something for their trash.

Yamo is a very undersized, not overly fast, doesn't have a very good shot, only has mediocre skill, often injured, extremely streaky player who had a pretty poor season and a brutal playoff. As if that isn't bad enough, he's probably making twice what he should. The only thing he has going for him is his age. If an Oiler fan didn't know who he was, if you looked at his stats at the salary he makes and what he lacks, most fans would probably think he's a waste of time and not worth having on the Oilers. Most fans would definitely not want the GM to trade for him and if they did trade for him, they would freak out if they gave up anything other than futures.

So a team looks at all of what Yamo is, then you look at who he played with pretty much exclusively. He played with either McD, the undisputed best, most gifted offensive player in the world or Leon who is probably top 5 and Yamo produced squat. There is no value there right now. He's worth NOTHING especially considering he makes way too much money. The same Oilers fans who are going off thinking the Oilers should have got an asset for him, would be the same guys losing their minds if the Oilers traded anything at all to get him.

RDO, NHL GMs are dumb. They do dumb things all the time. Last season Holland accepted Yamo'sr 3.1 x 2 arbitration. This year he's decide Yams is worthless. That's dumb. It's noticeable.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824693 is a reply to message #824690 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 11:54

inverno76
Messages: 2120
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:22

What always surprises me in this site and I need to just get over it as it won't change, is how often there are posters who's response to things is basically NHL GM's are dumb so the Oilers should be able to get something for their trash.

Yamo is a very undersized, not overly fast, doesn't have a very good shot, only has mediocre skill, often injured, extremely streaky player who had a pretty poor season and a brutal playoff. As if that isn't bad enough, he's probably making twice what he should. The only thing he has going for him is his age. If an Oiler fan didn't know who he was, if you looked at his stats at the salary he makes and what he lacks, most fans would probably think he's a waste of time and not worth having on the Oilers. Most fans would definitely not want the GM to trade for him and if they did trade for him, they would freak out if they gave up anything other than futures.

So a team looks at all of what Yamo is, then you look at who he played with pretty much exclusively. He played with either McD, the undisputed best, most gifted offensive player in the world or Leon who is probably top 5 and Yamo produced squat. There is no value there right now. He's worth NOTHING especially considering he makes way too much money. The same Oilers fans who are going off thinking the Oilers should have got an asset for him, would be the same guys losing their minds if the Oilers traded anything at all to get him.

RDO, NHL GMs are dumb. They do dumb things all the time. Last season Holland accepted Yamo'sr 3.1 x 2 arbitration. This year he's decide Yams is worthless. That's dumb. It's noticeable.

I did not like the 3.1M contract at the time, but I was hopeful he could earn and outperform it if he was healthy and playing with Connor and Leon. I blame injuries. Small guys can thrive in this league, but they cannot play to Yamo's style if they weigh less than a 15 year old girl.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824709 is a reply to message #824665 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3910
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824711 is a reply to message #824709 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 12:47

inverno76
Messages: 2120
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

If Kostin signs with the Wings for 1.75M? This could be a favour to the player, which I am okay with. If he signs for 1M, then I agree it is a Holland loss, but as it stands right now we were going to let him walk on Saturday anyways.

Good luck Klim. Hope you are not living in Siberia come the fall.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824713 is a reply to message #824711 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 12:57

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:47

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

If Kostin signs with the Wings for 1.75M? This could be a favour to the player, which I am okay with. If he signs for 1M, then I agree it is a Holland loss, but as it stands right now we were going to let him walk on Saturday anyways.

Good luck Klim. Hope you are not living in Siberia come the fall.

The upside of all this is that it means we can't be the ones making the major gaffe on giving Kostin too much for too long!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824720 is a reply to message #824711 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 13:55

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3910
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:47

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

If Kostin signs with the Wings for 1.75M? This could be a favour to the player, which I am okay with. If he signs for 1M, then I agree it is a Holland loss, but as it stands right now we were going to let him walk on Saturday anyways.

Good luck Klim. Hope you are not living in Siberia come the fall.

At whatever Kostin eventually makes, Detroit has the cap space to sign him, which equals an NHL roster player.. either 2nd, 3rd, 4th liner on Detroit, that's value.. and we give him to Detroit to take 500k in cap space.. ? .. seems pretty expensive.

BTW.. there was mention of "future considerations" to Oilers.. is that anything real?

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824722 is a reply to message #824720 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 14:05

Burgeoboy
Messages: 33
Registered: July 2006
Location: Burgeo, Newfoundland

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 17:25

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:47

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

If Kostin signs with the Wings for 1.75M? This could be a favour to the player, which I am okay with. If he signs for 1M, then I agree it is a Holland loss, but as it stands right now we were going to let him walk on Saturday anyways.

Good luck Klim. Hope you are not living in Siberia come the fall.

At whatever Kostin eventually makes, Detroit has the cap space to sign him, which equals an NHL roster player.. either 2nd, 3rd, 4th liner on Detroit, that's value.. and we give him to Detroit to take 500k in cap space.. ? .. seems pretty expensive.

BTW.. there was mention of "future considerations" to Oilers.. is that anything real?

If Det wants to over pay a 4th liner, surly they could do that in free agency and not have to give up an asset to do it.

[Updated on: Thu, 29 June 2023 14:07]

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824725 is a reply to message #824722 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 14:21

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3910
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:05

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 17:25

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:47

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

If Kostin signs with the Wings for 1.75M? This could be a favour to the player, which I am okay with. If he signs for 1M, then I agree it is a Holland loss, but as it stands right now we were going to let him walk on Saturday anyways.

Good luck Klim. Hope you are not living in Siberia come the fall.

At whatever Kostin eventually makes, Detroit has the cap space to sign him, which equals an NHL roster player.. either 2nd, 3rd, 4th liner on Detroit, that's value.. and we give him to Detroit to take 500k in cap space.. ? .. seems pretty expensive.

BTW.. there was mention of "future considerations" to Oilers.. is that anything real?

If Det wants to over pay a 4th liner, surly they could do that in free agency and not have to give up an asset to do it.

Detroit has a ton of cap space, difference between what Kostin wants and a UFA cost is not an issue, more value in a young former 1st rounder who had a good year on minimum minutes with Oilers, and physically engages at every opportunity.. I'd take that over a washed up UFA.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824724 is a reply to message #824720 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 14:15

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:55

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:47

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

If Kostin signs with the Wings for 1.75M? This could be a favour to the player, which I am okay with. If he signs for 1M, then I agree it is a Holland loss, but as it stands right now we were going to let him walk on Saturday anyways.

Good luck Klim. Hope you are not living in Siberia come the fall.

At whatever Kostin eventually makes, Detroit has the cap space to sign him, which equals an NHL roster player.. either 2nd, 3rd, 4th liner on Detroit, that's value.. and we give him to Detroit to take 500k in cap space.. ? .. seems pretty expensive.

BTW.. there was mention of "future considerations" to Oilers.. is that anything real?

It's worth watching Holland's little scrum at the draft. They ask him what futures is and he almost laughs, almost says it's nothing, then says, "well, it's futures."

It's nothing.

As I said earlier, no one is distraught over this, but it's hardly like the Oilers have done well with this. It could have been worse, so there's that.

But the true test is what you do with the cap space, and we still have the same guy who gave Yamamoto two years at $3.1MM as the guy spending that cap space, and he's already committing to future cap grief with his inability to do anything but bridge Bouchard, so I wouldn't say I'm super-optimistic.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824729 is a reply to message #824724 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 14:51

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3910
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:15

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:55

.. BTW.. there was mention of "future considerations" to Oilers.. is that anything real?

It's worth watching Holland's little scrum at the draft. They ask him what futures is and he almost laughs, almost says it's nothing, then says, "well, it's futures."

What if.. futures were.. Detroit buys out, or puts on waivers, Yamo .. and then he signs for $750M in Edm? :)

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824731 is a reply to message #824729 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 14:53

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:51

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:15

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:55

.. BTW.. there was mention of "future considerations" to Oilers.. is that anything real?

It's worth watching Holland's little scrum at the draft. They ask him what futures is and he almost laughs, almost says it's nothing, then says, "well, it's futures."

What if.. futures were.. Detroit buys out, or puts on waivers, Yamo .. and then he signs for $750M in Edm?

Why in the holy heck would we sign an undersized, underperforming, and often injured winger? He did NOTHING for his last team where he barely beat former Carolina Hurricane Jessu Puljujarvi out of a job.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824742 is a reply to message #824724 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 15:27

inverno76
Messages: 2120
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:15

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:55

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:47

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44

Understand Yamo going for nothing.. little value at 3.1M

But adding Kostin? .. for no return?

Kostin was the "cost" for taking Yamo and not having the $0.5M cap retention for one year after a buyout?

Only way this trade works fairly out for Oilers s if he goes to the KHL.

If he signs with Detroit, then a loss for Holland

If Kostin signs with the Wings for 1.75M? This could be a favour to the player, which I am okay with. If he signs for 1M, then I agree it is a Holland loss, but as it stands right now we were going to let him walk on Saturday anyways.

Good luck Klim. Hope you are not living in Siberia come the fall.

At whatever Kostin eventually makes, Detroit has the cap space to sign him, which equals an NHL roster player.. either 2nd, 3rd, 4th liner on Detroit, that's value.. and we give him to Detroit to take 500k in cap space.. ? .. seems pretty expensive.

BTW.. there was mention of "future considerations" to Oilers.. is that anything real?

It's worth watching Holland's little scrum at the draft. They ask him what futures is and he almost laughs, almost says it's nothing, then says, "well, it's futures."

It's nothing.

As I said earlier, no one is distraught over this, but it's hardly like the Oilers have done well with this. It could have been worse, so there's that.

But the true test is what you do with the cap space, and we still have the same guy who gave Yamamoto two years at $3.1MM as the guy spending that cap space, and he's already committing to future cap grief with his inability to do anything but bridge Bouchard, so I wouldn't say I'm super-optimistic.

It could have been astronomically worse and only marginally better. If we are going to weigh the deal, then weigh it appropriately.

3.1M was not a terrible bet on Yams, but it did not hit. Their are no long-term ramifications from this move, but like you said, the real story is in what we do with the acquired cap space.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824744 is a reply to message #824742 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 15:59

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Maybe it's just me but
Just giving away players when you only

Start with three draft picks in the first place seems
Unwise. It's amazing how the Oilers are always the ones whose assets
Cease to hold any value.
Kassian, Kostin, Puljujarvi, Bear, Jones, Yams, even Eberle weren't
Sold but given away instead. Classic OEG

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824750 is a reply to message #824744 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 21:05

inverno76
Messages: 2120
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:59

Maybe it's just me but
Just giving away players when you only

Start with three draft picks in the first place seems
Unwise. It's amazing how the Oilers are always the ones whose assets
Cease to hold any value.
Kassian, Kostin, Puljujarvi, Bear, Jones, Yams, even Eberle weren't
Sold but given away instead. Classic OEG

Bear wasn’t given away. Eberle was a failed deal. The rat it’s hard to argue the returned value. Find me comparable players that were moved for great returns?

This group is doomed. Every playoff team appears to have a chance at winning the Cup now a days. We are on the cusp and if this team somehow won back to back Cups I still think a lot of people here would still find faults.

This should be our 4th Cup in the McDavid era.
We got lucky.
How are we going to sign player x?

This place is more broken than usual.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824755 is a reply to message #824744 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 08:38

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:59

Maybe it's just me but
Just giving away players when you only

Start with three draft picks in the first place seems
Unwise. It's amazing how the Oilers are always the ones whose assets
Cease to hold any value.
Kassian, Kostin, Puljujarvi, Bear, Jones, Yams, even Eberle weren't
Sold but given away instead. Classic OEG

What always amazes me his how much Oilers fans seem to overvalue players. Look at the list of guys you listed.

Kassian - Would you give up anything to get a grossly overpaid 4th line with concussion issues?

JP - Would you give up anything to get JP who hasn't lived up to being a 4th overall, couldn't score playing with McD. Couldn't score in Carolina and just had his second double hip surgery in 2-3 yrs as a 25 yr old?

Yamo - Would you give up anything to get a ridiculously small, doesn't produce overly well, overpaid guy with neck and concussion problems?

Kostin -His rights were a throw in to get the Hawks to take all of Yamo's cap hit. Supposedly according to Gregor, he was about to accept a 1.75 mill deal in the KHL right before he was traded but was held off accepting to see if the Wings will get close. I like Kostin but I am not paying a guy who isn't great defensively and right now is a 4th liner who got hot with a 20% shooting percentage 1.75 mill.

The other players you listed, they got assets back for them. But like I always say when I see fans cry foul when the Oilers get rid of one of their lower tier guys. Turn the trade around. What would you give up to get that player as an Oiler? Is the answer is nothing or pretty much nothing, why does anyone think other GM's should give up anything to get them.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824756 is a reply to message #824755 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 08:52

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:59

Maybe it's just me but
Just giving away players when you only

Start with three draft picks in the first place seems
Unwise. It's amazing how the Oilers are always the ones whose assets
Cease to hold any value.
Kassian, Kostin, Puljujarvi, Bear, Jones, Yams, even Eberle weren't
Sold but given away instead. Classic OEG

What always amazes me his how much Oilers fans seem to overvalue players. Look at the list of guys you listed.

Kassian - Would you give up anything to get a grossly overpaid 4th line with concussion issues?

JP - Would you give up anything to get JP who hasn't lived up to being a 4th overall, couldn't score playing with McD. Couldn't score in Carolina and just had his second double hip surgery in 2-3 yrs as a 25 yr old?

Yamo - Would you give up anything to get a ridiculously small, doesn't produce overly well, overpaid guy with neck and concussion problems?

Kostin -His rights were a throw in to get the Hawks to take all of Yamo's cap hit. Supposedly according to Gregor, he was about to accept a 1.75 mill deal in the KHL right before he was traded but was held off accepting to see if the Wings will get close. I like Kostin but I am not paying a guy who isn't great defensively and right now is a 4th liner who got hot with a 20% shooting percentage 1.75 mill.

The other players you listed, they got assets back for them. But like I always say when I see fans cry foul when the Oilers get rid of one of their lower tier guys. Turn the trade around. What would you give up to get that player as an Oiler? Is the answer is nothing or pretty much nothing, why does anyone think other GM's should give up anything to get them.

You're missing the point. The problem isn't that these players have zero or negative trade value. The problem is the Oilers are keeping players until they have zero or negative trade value. Accepting JP's and Yammo's arbitration last year is a bad decision if you're going to trade both away for nothing in 11 months. Sometimes events happen where a player's value crashes and the organization gets screwed, like Klefbom, but that's not what happened here. The Oilers screwed the Oilers. Again.

The secondary point is it's entirely predictable that Holland is going to blow through the newly acquired Cap Space tomorrow on someone who won't address the Oilers' problems.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824758 is a reply to message #824756 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 09:08

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:59

Maybe it's just me but
Just giving away players when you only

Start with three draft picks in the first place seems
Unwise. It's amazing how the Oilers are always the ones whose assets
Cease to hold any value.
Kassian, Kostin, Puljujarvi, Bear, Jones, Yams, even Eberle weren't
Sold but given away instead. Classic OEG

What always amazes me his how much Oilers fans seem to overvalue players. Look at the list of guys you listed.

Kassian - Would you give up anything to get a grossly overpaid 4th line with concussion issues?

JP - Would you give up anything to get JP who hasn't lived up to being a 4th overall, couldn't score playing with McD. Couldn't score in Carolina and just had his second double hip surgery in 2-3 yrs as a 25 yr old?

Yamo - Would you give up anything to get a ridiculously small, doesn't produce overly well, overpaid guy with neck and concussion problems?

Kostin -His rights were a throw in to get the Hawks to take all of Yamo's cap hit. Supposedly according to Gregor, he was about to accept a 1.75 mill deal in the KHL right before he was traded but was held off accepting to see if the Wings will get close. I like Kostin but I am not paying a guy who isn't great defensively and right now is a 4th liner who got hot with a 20% shooting percentage 1.75 mill.

The other players you listed, they got assets back for them. But like I always say when I see fans cry foul when the Oilers get rid of one of their lower tier guys. Turn the trade around. What would you give up to get that player as an Oiler? Is the answer is nothing or pretty much nothing, why does anyone think other GM's should give up anything to get them.

You're missing the point. The problem isn't that these players have zero or negative trade value. The problem is the Oilers are keeping players until they have zero or negative trade value. Accepting JP's and Yammo's arbitration last year is a bad decision if you're going to trade both away for nothing in 11 months. Sometimes events happen where a player's value crashes and the organization gets screwed, like Klefbom, but that's not what happened here. The Oilers screwed the Oilers. Again.

The secondary point is it's entirely predictable that Holland is going to blow through the newly acquired Cap Space tomorrow on someone who won't address the Oilers' problems.

I am not missing the point and I think the fans that are complaining are conveniently forgetting their stance before.

I can't remember if you were one of them but there were lots of posters in here who line up to say how crappy it is that the Oilers didn't get anything for JP as an example but they were the same guys advocating for the Oilers to lock up JP for long term at more money than what the arbitrator was giving him. That's a fact man.

TONS of guys in there were screaming how stupid the Oilers were for not locking up JP because he's this amazing top 6 guy with all these awesome fancy stats and the Oilers are going to regret it "here the Oilers go again not locking up guys cheap". All JP did was be AWFUL all year long. He didn't produce squat for McD, went to the Cane to play with his buddies and was WORSE at producing and was scratched a ton. Now it comes out he needs double hip surgery AGAIN So who knows what his future is.

So if the Oilers had done want many posters in here wanted and crucified the Oilers for not doing, one of them probably was you, they'd have a 4+ mill player for the next 6 yrs sitting on LTIR for maybe the whole bloody contract. That's a fact man. But instead, now you say they should have walked away from JP all together. So first I bet you were advocating to lock him up long term, now you go back and say they should have walked away from him all together. What a freaking hypocritical statement that is.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824761 is a reply to message #824758 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 09:26

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 09:08

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:59

Maybe it's just me but
Just giving away players when you only

Start with three draft picks in the first place seems
Unwise. It's amazing how the Oilers are always the ones whose assets
Cease to hold any value.
Kassian, Kostin, Puljujarvi, Bear, Jones, Yams, even Eberle weren't
Sold but given away instead. Classic OEG

What always amazes me his how much Oilers fans seem to overvalue players. Look at the list of guys you listed.

Kassian - Would you give up anything to get a grossly overpaid 4th line with concussion issues?

JP - Would you give up anything to get JP who hasn't lived up to being a 4th overall, couldn't score playing with McD. Couldn't score in Carolina and just had his second double hip surgery in 2-3 yrs as a 25 yr old?

Yamo - Would you give up anything to get a ridiculously small, doesn't produce overly well, overpaid guy with neck and concussion problems?

Kostin -His rights were a throw in to get the Hawks to take all of Yamo's cap hit. Supposedly according to Gregor, he was about to accept a 1.75 mill deal in the KHL right before he was traded but was held off accepting to see if the Wings will get close. I like Kostin but I am not paying a guy who isn't great defensively and right now is a 4th liner who got hot with a 20% shooting percentage 1.75 mill.

The other players you listed, they got assets back for them. But like I always say when I see fans cry foul when the Oilers get rid of one of their lower tier guys. Turn the trade around. What would you give up to get that player as an Oiler? Is the answer is nothing or pretty much nothing, why does anyone think other GM's should give up anything to get them.

You're missing the point. The problem isn't that these players have zero or negative trade value. The problem is the Oilers are keeping players until they have zero or negative trade value. Accepting JP's and Yammo's arbitration last year is a bad decision if you're going to trade both away for nothing in 11 months. Sometimes events happen where a player's value crashes and the organization gets screwed, like Klefbom, but that's not what happened here. The Oilers screwed the Oilers. Again.

The secondary point is it's entirely predictable that Holland is going to blow through the newly acquired Cap Space tomorrow on someone who won't address the Oilers' problems.

I am not missing the point and I think the fans that are complaining are conveniently forgetting their stance before.

I can't remember if you were one of them but there were lots of posters in here who line up to say how crappy it is that the Oilers didn't get anything for JP as an example but they were the same guys advocating for the Oilers to lock up JP for long term at more money than what the arbitrator was giving him. That's a fact man.

TONS of guys in there were screaming how stupid the Oilers were for not locking up JP because he's this amazing top 6 guy with all these awesome fancy stats and the Oilers are going to regret it "here the Oilers go again not locking up guys cheap". All JP did was be AWFUL all year long. He didn't produce squat for McD, went to the Cane to play with his buddies and was WORSE at producing and was scratched a ton. Now it comes out he needs double hip surgery AGAIN So who knows what his future is.

So if the Oilers had done want many posters in here wanted and crucified the Oilers for not doing, one of them probably was you, they'd have a 4+ mill player for the next 6 yrs sitting on LTIR for maybe the whole bloody contract. That's a fact man. But instead, now you say they should have walked away from JP all together. So first I bet you were advocating to lock him up long term, now you go back and say they should have walked away from him all together. What a freaking hypocritical statement that is.

That's such a lazy strawman. Whether or not I was wrong about JP is entirely immaterial to the fact Oilers management consistently turns guys they value in nothing. For whatever reason (incompetence, laziness, arrogance) we watch a team that cannot operate with enough foresight to drop a player until they absolutely have to. By the time they're ready to act they're always having the hand force. They're always backed into a corner of their own making because they mismanage assets. Yamamoto was mismanaged asset.

For the record, I was wrong about Puljujarvi but right about Yammo and Kassian. I should not have a better batting average than Holland (Chiarelli, Tambellini, MacTavish, and Lowe).

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824743 is a reply to message #824665 ]	Thu, 29 June 2023 15:36

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3910
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Gonna miss Klim.. he was a refreshing addition, one of the few on the team that always stepped up never needing an invitation.. character.. good shot.. decent wheels.

Oilers can't seem to keep any Russians on the team.. hope Petrov pans out better!

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824759 is a reply to message #824665 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 09:16

NetBOG
Messages: 2860
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Comments from Yzerman yesterday seem to show he's more interested in Kostin than Yamo. I wouldn't be surprised if he just meets Klim's asking price to resign.

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Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824760 is a reply to message #824759 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 09:25

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 09:16

Comments from Yzerman yesterday seem to show he's more interested in Kostin than Yamo. I wouldn't be surprised if he just meets Klim's asking price to resign.

I watched an Oilersnation podcast and Gregor was on it saying he heard there was a 1.75 mill deal from the KHL. If that is true, I can see why the Oilers wouldn't sign him. That's too much for me as much as I like Klim. If played this coming season and put up similar numbers, then maybe I would be more prepared to pay him that.

Maybe on the Wings, Klim will play way higher up but on the Oilers, he's a bottom 6 guy and they have to not overpay bottom 6 guys.

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Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824763 is a reply to message #824665 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 10:05

Daftmonk
Messages: 25
Registered: June 2000
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

https://www.tsn.ca/detroit-red-wings-to-buy-out-newly-acquir ed-kailer-yamamoto-1.1979303

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." — Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824764 is a reply to message #824763 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 10:11

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Daftmonk wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:05

https://www.tsn.ca/detroit-red-wings-to-buy-out-newly-acquir ed-kailer-yamamoto-1.1979303

Yzerman not great at this either. He's taking on a cap hit for the next two years simply for a chance at signing Kostin? That's...special.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824767 is a reply to message #824764 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's now basically a 2 mill player.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 June 2023 11:21]

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824771 is a reply to message #824767 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824772 is a reply to message #824771 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 11:21

NetBOG
Messages: 2860
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

Or he values the player and has a boatload of cap space. Trust me, he knows more about this stuff than you do.

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824776 is a reply to message #824772 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 11:37

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:21

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

Or he values the player and has a boatload of cap space. Trust me, he knows more about this stuff than you do.

If you have the cap space (not Cap Space like the Oilers) why buy out Yam? And why is he so worried about Klim when you could get him without the buy out tomorrow? I'm not sure the appeal to authority works with Yzerman on this move.

And if Yzerman values Klim so much, why not leverage that to getting something in return if you're Holland? Turns out Yammo did not have a zero value to the rest of the league. The Oilers worked their first round pick into less than zero.

Both teams did poorly here.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824795 is a reply to message #824776 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 13:01

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:37

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:21

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

Or he values the player and has a boatload of cap space. Trust me, he knows more about this stuff than you do.

If you have the cap space (not Cap Space like the Oilers) why buy out Yam? And why is he so worried about Klim when you could get him without the buy out tomorrow? I'm not sure the appeal to authority works with Yzerman on this move.

And if Yzerman values Klim so much, why not leverage that to getting something in return if you're Holland? Turns out Yammo did not have a zero value to the rest of the league. The Oilers worked their first round pick into less than zero.

Both teams did poorly here.

If you're Yzerman and you're willing to invest $2MM+ in cap space for Klim Kostin, then A) you need a better analytics team and B) why not just offer a low draft pick to the Oilers for the player that they're struggling to sign. I'd posit that $300-500K of cap space in each of the next couple years is worth more than a 7th round pick and for the Oilers if they are losing him for nothing to the KHL, then they may as well take that long-shot pick.

It's a totally bizarre move, and shows a guy who's out-thinking himself at the helm of the Detroit Red Wings.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824779 is a reply to message #824772 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:00

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3910
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:21

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

Or he values the player and has a boatload of cap space. Trust me, he knows more about this stuff than you do.

You're correct, he does have a freighter full of cap space.. $30M and nobody big to re-sign.
He can sign Kostin.. cap space or the actual money not an issue for them.. depends how deep Kostin's agent digs in his heels..

Not sure why he chose to buy-out Yamo now, the cost to Detroit was not a real impediment to their cap.. thought they could have let him play and trade if he does well... guess we'll get the opportunity to see Yamo's true market value pretty soon.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
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Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824780 is a reply to message #824779 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:04

Goose
Messages: 1098
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Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:00

You're correct, he does have a freighter full of cap space.. $30M and nobody big to re-sign.
He can sign Kostin.. cap space or the actual money not an issue for them.. depends how deep Kostin's agent digs in his heels..

Not sure why he chose to buy-out Yamo now, the cost to Detroit was not a real impediment to their cap.. thought they could have let him play and trade if he does well... guess we'll get the opportunity to see Yamo's true market value pretty soon.

Ya, the buyout feels like a very bizarre move by Detroit to me. The only explanation that I can think of is that Yzerman plans to go big game hunting during free agency and wants as much space as possible. Otherwise, what's really the point?

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19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824782 is a reply to message #824780 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:07

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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Goose wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:04

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:00

You're correct, he does have a freighter full of cap space.. $30M and nobody big to re-sign.
He can sign Kostin.. cap space or the actual money not an issue for them.. depends how deep Kostin's agent digs in his heels..

Not sure why he chose to buy-out Yamo now, the cost to Detroit was not a real impediment to their cap.. thought they could have let him play and trade if he does well... guess we'll get the opportunity to see Yamo's true market value pretty soon.

Ya, the buyout feels like a very bizarre move by Detroit to me. The only explanation that I can think of is that Yzerman plans to go big game hunting during free agency and wants as much space as possible. Otherwise, what's really the point?

Who's on the market worth throwing money at? This years free agent class doesn't look that great.

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824785 is a reply to message #824782 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:16

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3910
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:07

Goose wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:04

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:00

You're correct, he does have a freighter full of cap space.. $30M and nobody big to re-sign.
He can sign Kostin.. cap space or the actual money not an issue for them.. depends how deep Kostin's agent digs in his heels..

Not sure why he chose to buy-out Yamo now, the cost to Detroit was not a real impediment to their cap.. thought they could have let him play and trade if he does well... guess we'll get the opportunity to see Yamo's true market value pretty soon.

Ya, the buyout feels like a very bizarre move by Detroit to me. The only explanation that I can think of is that Yzerman plans to go big game hunting during free agency and wants as much space as possible. Otherwise, what's really the point?

Who's on the market worth throwing money at? This years free agent class doesn't look that great.

Stay tuned.. lots of buyouts of decent vets..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824783 is a reply to message #824779 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:09

NetBOG
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Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:00

You're correct, he does have a freighter full of cap space.. $30M and nobody big to re-sign.
He can sign Kostin.. cap space or the actual money not an issue for them.. depends how deep Kostin's agent digs in his heels..

Not sure why he chose to buy-out Yamo now, the cost to Detroit was not a real impediment to their cap.. thought they could have let him play and trade if he does well... guess we'll get the opportunity to see Yamo's true market value pretty soon.

For some reason the buyout is fairly low ($900,000 total spread over 2 years). Could be he doesn't see a fit and this saves him more than $2 million in both cap and real dollars. I don't think Yamo has a lot of love around the league right now.

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824788 is a reply to message #824783 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:20

Skookum Jim
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Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:09

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:00

..Not sure why he chose to buy-out Yamo now, the cost to Detroit was not a real impediment to their cap.. thought they could have let him play and trade if he does well... guess we'll get the opportunity to see Yamo's true market value pretty soon.

For some reason the buyout is fairly low ($900,000 total spread over 2 years). Could be he doesn't see a fit and this saves him more than $2 million in both cap and real dollars. I don't think Yamo has a lot of love around the league right now.

I guess that's my point.. Detroit had tons of cap.. even if they planned to go shopping for UFAs.. his perceived NHL value appears to be real low.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824787 is a reply to message #824771 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:19

inverno76
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Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

A real question regarding trading Yamamoto. When would have been the correct time to trade him when he still had value?

When he had value we needed him. It fell off a cliff. They could’ve traded him at his initial drop off point, but he is young and should have conceivably rebounded. I guess he could’ve been moved before he signed his two year deal, but Edmonton like everyone else still saw a player there.

Then the 22/23 starts and he gets hurt. It appears to be chronic. Now he’s dead weight and hopefully going to recover and restart his career.

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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824791 is a reply to message #824787 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 12:33

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:19

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

A real question regarding trading Yamamoto. When would have been the correct time to trade him when he still had value?

When he had value we needed him. It fell off a cliff. They could’ve traded him at his initial drop off point, but he is young and should have conceivably rebounded. I guess he could’ve been moved before he signed his two year deal, but Edmonton like everyone else still saw a player there.

Then the 22/23 starts and he gets hurt. It appears to be chronic. Now he’s dead weight and hopefully going to recover and restart his career.

I was thinking of asking the same question but I gave up because I don't understand the point apparently.

Yamo scored 20 goals. Arb gave him that deal. If you can get a guy to score 20 goals, 40 points and it costs you 3.1 mill. That's decent value. When you are trying for a cup, you need guys like that to outplay their contracts. He was also pretty well liked by the team including the big guys as well. I personally have had concerns about his size but at the time, I think it would be pretty hard to walk away from a 20 goal scorer when his value was at his peak and you could get something for him.

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