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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824369 is a reply to message #824364 ]
Sat, 17 June 2023 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 16:40


You know that for a fact? I always heard he was an elite skater so even if he dropped off a little, he should be better than most. I haven't watched him enough to know if that is the case. I assume you watch him a ton to know that to make a statement that he can't skate anymore?

Yes. It's a fact. He's Cam Barker now.

He busted up a leg and turned into less than a third pairing turnstile on a bad hockey team.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824372 is a reply to message #824369 ]
Sat, 17 June 2023 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 17 June 2023 19:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 16:40


You know that for a fact? I always heard he was an elite skater so even if he dropped off a little, he should be better than most. I haven't watched him enough to know if that is the case. I assume you watch him a ton to know that to make a statement that he can't skate anymore?

Yes. It's a fact. He's Cam Barker now.

He busted up a leg and turned into less than a third pairing turnstile on a bad hockey team.


Correct.. apparently his ankle is Ryan Whitney level.. he's done.. maybe he can start a podcast ?

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824378 is a reply to message #824369 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 17 June 2023 20:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 16:40


You know that for a fact? I always heard he was an elite skater so even if he dropped off a little, he should be better than most. I haven't watched him enough to know if that is the case. I assume you watch him a ton to know that to make a statement that he can't skate anymore?

Yes. It's a fact. He's Cam Barker now.

He busted up a leg and turned into less than a third pairing turnstile on a bad hockey team.


Mind-boggling that the Canucks wouldn't have waited to see if he could be LTIRed rather than taking on that massive buyout forever. I wonder if it signals an attempt at something large this summer?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824381 is a reply to message #824378 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 09:14



Mind-boggling that the Canucks wouldn't have waited to see if he could be LTIRed rather than taking on that massive buyout forever. I wonder if it signals an attempt at something large this summer?

I wonder if the Canucks tried. The two obvious options before a looong buyout are the LTIR route and trading him away with 50% retained. Clearly he's not an 8 or even 4 million dollar defenseman, but maybe someone would take him at $2M (two trades, each at 50% retained). I'd want to avoid having 8 years of dead cap space at all costs.

I'd love for someone to do the work to find out how many of the retained money slots are being used right now. I have the suspicion that those are going to become very valuable for bad teams in the near future.


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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824384 is a reply to message #824381 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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According to this list on capfriendly, there are only 7 retained salary contracts heading into the new season.

https://www.capfriendly.com/retained-salary-transactions

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824386 is a reply to message #824381 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 09:33

Adam wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 09:14



Mind-boggling that the Canucks wouldn't have waited to see if he could be LTIRed rather than taking on that massive buyout forever. I wonder if it signals an attempt at something large this summer?

I wonder if the Canucks tried. The two obvious options before a looong buyout are the LTIR route and trading him away with 50% retained. Clearly he's not an 8 or even 4 million dollar defenseman, but maybe someone would take him at $2M (two trades, each at 50% retained). I'd want to avoid having 8 years of dead cap space at all costs.

I'd love for someone to do the work to find out how many of the retained money slots are being used right now. I have the suspicion that those are going to become very valuable for bad teams in the near future.



Even if the player wasn't ready to accept that he was LTIR-bound, his injury history the last couple years means it wouldn't be long before he's forced there again. How long does he want to keep floundering? Not to mention, he would have been paid all his money if he went that route, rather than 2/3rds of it in a buyout spaced over double the time. If he spends a bunch of next year on the shelf or in the minors, how long until he agrees that it's best if he were sitting at home collecting cheques instead?

The only way I can make any sense of it is if the Canucks feel they needed his money freed up THIS summer - although if they think they're about to contend...well, they're more optimistic about their chances than I am!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824389 is a reply to message #824386 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 09:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 09:33

Adam wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 09:14



Mind-boggling that the Canucks wouldn't have waited to see if he could be LTIRed rather than taking on that massive buyout forever. I wonder if it signals an attempt at something large this summer?

I wonder if the Canucks tried. The two obvious options before a looong buyout are the LTIR route and trading him away with 50% retained. Clearly he's not an 8 or even 4 million dollar defenseman, but maybe someone would take him at $2M (two trades, each at 50% retained). I'd want to avoid having 8 years of dead cap space at all costs.

I'd love for someone to do the work to find out how many of the retained money slots are being used right now. I have the suspicion that those are going to become very valuable for bad teams in the near future.



Even if the player wasn't ready to accept that he was LTIR-bound, his injury history the last couple years means it wouldn't be long before he's forced there again. How long does he want to keep floundering? Not to mention, he would have been paid all his money if he went that route, rather than 2/3rds of it in a buyout spaced over double the time. If he spends a bunch of next year on the shelf or in the minors, how long until he agrees that it's best if he were sitting at home collecting cheques instead?

The only way I can make any sense of it is if the Canucks feel they needed his money freed up THIS summer - although if they think they're about to contend...well, they're more optimistic about their chances than I am!

Who knows. The owner might have just been annoyed that this guy stole 10 million from him last season and decided OEL needed to be off the books before he did it again. Personally I think it's absolutely insane to think that the Canucks wanted to have a 4.6 cap hit 3 & 4 seasons from now but I'm also pretty happy knowing we can scratch them off the competition list for the next two seasons.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824356 is a reply to message #824350 ]
Fri, 16 June 2023 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:21

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:02


Oh wow. Man that guy fell off the map in a hurry and he's not even that old. Turns 32 in July.

Yotes must be pumped. More dead cap space to help them get to salary floors every year without having to pay real players. Only 20K this year but goes along with the 21.4 they have with Vorechek, Weber and Little.

Here is a question. Is he washed up completely or just not a guy worth 8.25 mill? He's had a few bad seasons but at the same time, he's been on some bad teams for a long time. The Yotes have been a joke for a long time and the Canucks have been pretty bad as well, really bad last year. He used to be dman that could play a ton, great skater and scored goals for fun as a dman. He had a couple of 20+ goal seasons and lots in the teens. SO if he was making a couple mill on a better team vs 8.25 on lousy ones, would he be OK?



Trading for busted up declining players, especially with super pricey deals. Just asking for pain. Wonderful final gift from Jim Benning.

NO kidding. 8 years for that buyout. Yikes.

Can he play the right side? I might be inclined to take a flyer at him for 1 yr at extremely low money. Probably a better option as a 6/7 than Murray was.


Gregor can't defend himself on the air anymore :(

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824365 is a reply to message #824356 ]
Fri, 16 June 2023 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:21

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:02


Oh wow. Man that guy fell off the map in a hurry and he's not even that old. Turns 32 in July.

Yotes must be pumped. More dead cap space to help them get to salary floors every year without having to pay real players. Only 20K this year but goes along with the 21.4 they have with Vorechek, Weber and Little.

Here is a question. Is he washed up completely or just not a guy worth 8.25 mill? He's had a few bad seasons but at the same time, he's been on some bad teams for a long time. The Yotes have been a joke for a long time and the Canucks have been pretty bad as well, really bad last year. He used to be dman that could play a ton, great skater and scored goals for fun as a dman. He had a couple of 20+ goal seasons and lots in the teens. SO if he was making a couple mill on a better team vs 8.25 on lousy ones, would he be OK?



Trading for busted up declining players, especially with super pricey deals. Just asking for pain. Wonderful final gift from Jim Benning.

NO kidding. 8 years for that buyout. Yikes.

Can he play the right side? I might be inclined to take a flyer at him for 1 yr at extremely low money. Probably a better option as a 6/7 than Murray was.


Gregor can't defend himself on the air anymore :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyxZ6LjakAAwey5?format=jpg&name=small

So your point is what exactly? You quoted me so what does bringing up a comment from someone else that is 3 yrs old supposed to mean to me?

The guy has fallen off some since that Gregor comment was made. At the time he was still regarded as a pretty good dman playing on a really bad team. My comment was maybe looking at him in a 6/7 role paying him 1 mill or less on a 1 yr deal. My guess is some decent team will scoop him up in a heart beat for more than I am willing to pay him.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824366 is a reply to message #824365 ]
Fri, 16 June 2023 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 16:50

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:21

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 16 June 2023 15:02


Oh wow. Man that guy fell off the map in a hurry and he's not even that old. Turns 32 in July.

Yotes must be pumped. More dead cap space to help them get to salary floors every year without having to pay real players. Only 20K this year but goes along with the 21.4 they have with Vorechek, Weber and Little.

Here is a question. Is he washed up completely or just not a guy worth 8.25 mill? He's had a few bad seasons but at the same time, he's been on some bad teams for a long time. The Yotes have been a joke for a long time and the Canucks have been pretty bad as well, really bad last year. He used to be dman that could play a ton, great skater and scored goals for fun as a dman. He had a couple of 20+ goal seasons and lots in the teens. SO if he was making a couple mill on a better team vs 8.25 on lousy ones, would he be OK?



Trading for busted up declining players, especially with super pricey deals. Just asking for pain. Wonderful final gift from Jim Benning.

NO kidding. 8 years for that buyout. Yikes.

Can he play the right side? I might be inclined to take a flyer at him for 1 yr at extremely low money. Probably a better option as a 6/7 than Murray was.


Gregor can't defend himself on the air anymore :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyxZ6LjakAAwey5?format=jpg&name=small

So your point is what exactly? You quoted me so what does bringing up a comment from someone else that is 3 yrs old supposed to mean to me?

The guy has fallen off some since that Gregor comment was made. At the time he was still regarded as a pretty good dman playing on a really bad team. My comment was maybe looking at him in a 6/7 role paying him 1 mill or less on a 1 yr deal. My guess is some decent team will scoop him up in a heart beat for more than I am willing to pay him.


More was a reply to first part of your post, just the comedy of the 8 year deal he got. He was already on the decline at the time Gregor tweeted that (30 point season, a whole season of fighting injuries). He didn't play like a #1 in 19/20. Benning traded for him after yet another downward trending season in 20/21 when it was clear his skating was broken, plus other injuries.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824395 is a reply to message #824112 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I really hope Ryan Suter gets bought out.
Minisota pays him $833,000 until 28-29, then Dallas would have to pay him $733,000 for 2 years then 1.4 mil for 2 years.
Can we sign him for league min instead of OEL?

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824396 is a reply to message #824395 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 15:14

I really hope Ryan Suter gets bought out.
Minisota pays him $833,000 until 28-29, then Dallas would have to pay him $733,000 for 2 years then 1.4 mil for 2 years.
Can we sign him for league min instead of OEL?


I seem to recall Canada being a no-way for Suter when he was available. Seems like a guy that'll end up signing cheap in Boston or something.

Would love to add him though for sure. Would stay away from OEL. Busted up players should be avoided for spots where you need some reliable depth.

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824397 is a reply to message #824395 ]
Mon, 19 June 2023 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Mon, 19 June 2023 15:14

I really hope Ryan Suter gets bought out.
Minisota pays him $833,000 until 28-29, then Dallas would have to pay him $733,000 for 2 years then 1.4 mil for 2 years.
Can we sign him for league min instead of OEL?

Is there rumors he will get bought out again?

If I was him, I would be all over that. He's 38, supposedly made over 111 mill in career earnings. Take the buy out and just retire.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824506 is a reply to message #824112 ]
Fri, 23 June 2023 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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With a bunch of Flames apparently on the way out of Calgary, here comes this story:

Quote:

“It’s funny that you bring this up today,” said Friedman, after Marek posed a question about if the Oilers were responsible for the Flames’ downfall, “because last season I was talking about that series with a member of the Oilers.
“They actually told me this story off the record when they first told me, so I never said anything. They actually texted me — I didn’t ask — today and said ‘remember that story I told you?’ and I said ‘Oh yeah.’ And he goes ‘if you want to keep my name out of it, you can tell the story.’
“They said when the Oilers were winning that series, that became a bit of a rallying cry for them, that they knew if they won that series, they could possibly break up the Flames.
“I think there’s something to it, I really do. I do. I’ll tell you something else that teaches me. It reached me about the elite of the elite. It’s not always the nicest thing to hear or say, but if you want to be the best, I think you can be a very nice person off the ice, or the field, or whatever competitive arena you’re in, but I think trying to win, you have to see the person between you and whatever trophy you’re trying to win as someone you have to do that to. When the competition is over, you can shake hands and be cordial, but when the competition is on, there’s no room for mercy.
“I would bet you a lot of players on those Oilers and Flames teams, they really like and respect each other and have relationships off the ice, but in that series, it’s clear to me from what that player said, that the Oilers weren’t just about winning that series. They were about ‘do we break up these Flames?'”



This story would be a little more entertaining to me if we weren't 1-2 years out from the exact same situation as Calgary. Teams in the playoffs next year are going to be hoping that if they knock us out, they'll have contributed to the end of the McDavid/Draisaitl era in Edmonton.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824507 is a reply to message #824506 ]
Fri, 23 June 2023 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2023 17:22

With a bunch of Flames apparently on the way out of Calgary, here comes this story:

Quote:

“It’s funny that you bring this up today,” said Friedman, after Marek posed a question about if the Oilers were responsible for the Flames’ downfall, “because last season I was talking about that series with a member of the Oilers.
“They actually told me this story off the record when they first told me, so I never said anything. They actually texted me — I didn’t ask — today and said ‘remember that story I told you?’ and I said ‘Oh yeah.’ And he goes ‘if you want to keep my name out of it, you can tell the story.’
“They said when the Oilers were winning that series, that became a bit of a rallying cry for them, that they knew if they won that series, they could possibly break up the Flames.
“I think there’s something to it, I really do. I do. I’ll tell you something else that teaches me. It reached me about the elite of the elite. It’s not always the nicest thing to hear or say, but if you want to be the best, I think you can be a very nice person off the ice, or the field, or whatever competitive arena you’re in, but I think trying to win, you have to see the person between you and whatever trophy you’re trying to win as someone you have to do that to. When the competition is over, you can shake hands and be cordial, but when the competition is on, there’s no room for mercy.
“I would bet you a lot of players on those Oilers and Flames teams, they really like and respect each other and have relationships off the ice, but in that series, it’s clear to me from what that player said, that the Oilers weren’t just about winning that series. They were about ‘do we break up these Flames?'”



This story would be a little more entertaining to me if we weren't 1-2 years out from the exact same situation as Calgary. Teams in the playoffs next year are going to be hoping that if they knock us out, they'll have contributed to the end of the McDavid/Draisaitl era in Edmonton.


With all the crap Tkachuk got up to with us, wouldn't surprise me if it was Kassian :)

And it worked. A cup win may have been the only way Gaudreau and Tkachuk even considered to stick around. All down hill after that series.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824508 is a reply to message #824507 ]
Fri, 23 June 2023 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27 is currently offline kungpaobenji27
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2023 19:45

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2023 17:22

With a bunch of Flames apparently on the way out of Calgary, here comes this story:

Quote:

“It’s funny that you bring this up today,” said Friedman, after Marek posed a question about if the Oilers were responsible for the Flames’ downfall, “because last season I was talking about that series with a member of the Oilers.
“They actually told me this story off the record when they first told me, so I never said anything. They actually texted me — I didn’t ask — today and said ‘remember that story I told you?’ and I said ‘Oh yeah.’ And he goes ‘if you want to keep my name out of it, you can tell the story.’
“They said when the Oilers were winning that series, that became a bit of a rallying cry for them, that they knew if they won that series, they could possibly break up the Flames.
“I think there’s something to it, I really do. I do. I’ll tell you something else that teaches me. It reached me about the elite of the elite. It’s not always the nicest thing to hear or say, but if you want to be the best, I think you can be a very nice person off the ice, or the field, or whatever competitive arena you’re in, but I think trying to win, you have to see the person between you and whatever trophy you’re trying to win as someone you have to do that to. When the competition is over, you can shake hands and be cordial, but when the competition is on, there’s no room for mercy.
“I would bet you a lot of players on those Oilers and Flames teams, they really like and respect each other and have relationships off the ice, but in that series, it’s clear to me from what that player said, that the Oilers weren’t just about winning that series. They were about ‘do we break up these Flames?'”



This story would be a little more entertaining to me if we weren't 1-2 years out from the exact same situation as Calgary. Teams in the playoffs next year are going to be hoping that if they knock us out, they'll have contributed to the end of the McDavid/Draisaitl era in Edmonton.


With all the crap Tkachuk got up to with us, wouldn't surprise me if it was Kassian :)

And it worked. A cup win may have been the only way Gaudreau and Tkachuk even considered to stick around. All down hill after that series.


Apparently...Johnny wanted to stay but the "car ride" he had with his wife leading up to the wee hours of July 1st, 2022 resulted in her wanting him closer to home.....

And I honestly think Matty would've stayed if his linemate did too

Still, keeping those two would've delayed the inevitable with other parts of the core being shipped off for cap compliance reasons....and those two eventually requesting trades thereafter as well

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824542 is a reply to message #824506 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2023 17:22

With a bunch of Flames apparently on the way out of Calgary, here comes this story:

Quote:

“It’s funny that you bring this up today,” said Friedman, after Marek posed a question about if the Oilers were responsible for the Flames’ downfall, “because last season I was talking about that series with a member of the Oilers.
“They actually told me this story off the record when they first told me, so I never said anything. They actually texted me — I didn’t ask — today and said ‘remember that story I told you?’ and I said ‘Oh yeah.’ And he goes ‘if you want to keep my name out of it, you can tell the story.’
“They said when the Oilers were winning that series, that became a bit of a rallying cry for them, that they knew if they won that series, they could possibly break up the Flames.
“I think there’s something to it, I really do. I do. I’ll tell you something else that teaches me. It reached me about the elite of the elite. It’s not always the nicest thing to hear or say, but if you want to be the best, I think you can be a very nice person off the ice, or the field, or whatever competitive arena you’re in, but I think trying to win, you have to see the person between you and whatever trophy you’re trying to win as someone you have to do that to. When the competition is over, you can shake hands and be cordial, but when the competition is on, there’s no room for mercy.
“I would bet you a lot of players on those Oilers and Flames teams, they really like and respect each other and have relationships off the ice, but in that series, it’s clear to me from what that player said, that the Oilers weren’t just about winning that series. They were about ‘do we break up these Flames?'”



This story would be a little more entertaining to me if we weren't 1-2 years out from the exact same situation as Calgary. Teams in the playoffs next year are going to be hoping that if they knock us out, they'll have contributed to the end of the McDavid/Draisaitl era in Edmonton.


That is a possibility with any team. The sky is not falling. I think this team has enough people fear mongering outside our fan base. When did we become the Toronto Maple Leafs?

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824544 is a reply to message #824542 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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inverno76 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 13:31

ams in the playoffs next year are going to be hoping that if they knock us out, they'll have contributed to the end of the McDavid/Draisaitl era in Edmonton.


When did we become the Toronto Maple Leafs?[/quote]
Around 1999 when they promoted Lowe to the most important job in the organizaton for no real reason. No one noticed this was a problem until the mid-2000s though and by then it was too late.

Less than fun facts: The time from the Leafs' last cup to Edmonton is 23 years. The time from the Oilers 1990 cup to now is 33 years.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824550 is a reply to message #824544 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 13:37

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 13:31

ams in the playoffs next year are going to be hoping that if they knock us out, they'll have contributed to the end of the McDavid/Draisaitl era in Edmonton.


When did we become the Toronto Maple Leafs?

Around 1999 when they promoted Lowe to the most important job in the organizaton for no real reason. No one noticed this was a problem until the mid-2000s though and by then it was too late.

Less than fun facts: The time from the Leafs' last cup to Edmonton is 23 years. The time from the Oilers 1990 cup to now is 33 years.[/quote]

I believe in self-fulfilling prophesies. If the fans and the media spew the narrative that no one wants to play somewhere then it becomes reality. You need people to push bash back, and that includes fan bases as well as players and management.

McDavid does not seem to be that guy. McDavid played for Eerie when no one else would. Flailing from here would be a black mark on his legacy. Lauren Kyle is an Edmonton girl. Draisaitl is toighter than a tiger with McDavid. The team (although late) is doing it's best to surround him with teammates he wants to play with, and the franchise has entered the Cup contender stage.

Anyone can find holes in any roster, but considering 29 and 97's current and future salaries it is more than likely they remain Oilers until the end of their careers. I will give them both a Ray Bourque caveat, and if the Oilers cannot win a Cup in their primes I will support whatever franchise they turn to for the last ditched effort for a championship.

I would be shocked if they move away before another long-term deal is signed. Reality has shown that franchise players like to remain loyal and finish what they have started, and only leave in extreme circumstances.

(33 years from a Cup also included a decade of being a borderline feeder team to other NHL teams where we could not afford to pay a fair salary to our stars).

[Updated on: Mon, 26 June 2023 14:13]

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824561 is a reply to message #824550 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:11


I believe in self-fulfilling prophesies. If the fans and the media spew the narrative that no one wants to play somewhere then it becomes reality. You need people to push bash back, and that includes fan bases as well as players and management.

McDavid does not seem to be that guy. McDavid played for Eerie when no one else would. Flailing from here would be a black mark on his legacy. Lauren Kyle is an Edmonton girl. Draisaitl is toighter than a tiger with McDavid. The team (although late) is doing it's best to surround him with teammates he wants to play with, and the franchise has entered the Cup contender stage.

Anyone can find holes in any roster, but considering 29 and 97's current and future salaries it is more than likely they remain Oilers until the end of their careers. I will give them both a Ray Bourque caveat, and if the Oilers cannot win a Cup in their primes I will support whatever franchise they turn to for the last ditched effort for a championship.

I would be shocked if they move away before another long-term deal is signed. Reality has shown that franchise players like to remain loyal and finish what they have started, and only leave in extreme circumstances.

(33 years from a Cup also included a decade of being a borderline feeder team to other NHL teams where we could not afford to pay a fair salary to our stars).


While I appreciate your optimism, I'm a realist. Players, especially the very best, want to win championships. McDavid and Draisaitl have been exceptionally good the last few years and the team has failed to surround them with adequate talent to be considered one of the top teams in the league or to contend for the Cup. McDavid even took a significant discount to what he could have got in order to lock in the best chance for the Oilers to win over his last deal.

In the time that Holland has been here, he tried to set expectations of a long turnaround when he joined and complained about the cap available. Since then he wrote off one year, saying that he didn't think we were ready to compete, while in a weak Canadian division that saw the lowly Habs go all the way to the Finals. We've seen him complain at every deadline day that he doesn't have any cap room to do anything more than the minimum, while the best teams in the league use every angle to make their teams better. We avoid doing any of those things in case Slater Koekkoek might be healthy enough to play. We're hearing him this summer say that he was counting on the cap increasing and that the fact it hasn't makes his job so much harder and he doesn't think he can add any significant pieces to the team moving forward. We have seen him commit in every year of his tenure to a below average goaltending tandem - one that isn't just underperforming, but even looks below average on paper before the first puck is dropped.

If you're scoring 150 points in the regular season and then driving a massive percentage of the team's offence in the post-season, you're going to at some point expect that management should have their game at a similar level. We just don't and we now have the GM saying "I can't guarantee we are ever going to win" and expressing doubt about his ability to do anything meaningful to improve the team.

If I'm looking at my relatively short career - one that already had one huge scare a couple years ago - and thinking about my legacy, I know I really need a Stanley Cup at some point to not have a question stuck to me the rest of my life. If I am McDavid, and I am losing faith in Management's ability to help me win, then I'm going to want to go somewhere where the management has the confidence and capability to truly go for it, and where they aren't constrained by a refusal to use any loopholes in the Cap rules. Even if I'm leaving more money on the table, I'm going somewhere where I can go get myself a Cup ring.

People sometimes want to compare it to Ovechkin, but I don't think it's a good comparison. OV signed a 12-year deal in 2008, locking him up until the end of 2020-21. He had won a Cup before he faced free agency. That said, his owner was pretty committed to surrounding him with good players and to give him a great chance of success. In all that time, other than his rookie season, they only missed the playoffs once and there was a high expectation of the team at all times. I don't remember them saying 4 or 5 years in that they couldn't go for it every year.

Two years from now, McDavid will have been in the league 11 years. In that time, Crosby had won two Cups and been to two more Finals. He'd never missed the playoffs after his rookie year. He wouldn't miss again until this season, his 18th.

Tavares and Stamkos are maybe the best comparable because things were definitely more up and down for the Lightning in his early years. Neither are superstars on even close to the same level, but both played for teams that were more challenged in their early years. Stamkos missed the playoffs four out of his first 8 seasons ahead of his UFA opportunity. His team was clearly on the rise though at the point where he faced down free agency, making the Finals in 2014-15, and the semi-finals the next year. Florida has the advantage of some great tax breaks too, so they have an extra leg up. The Lightning made a pitch to him and asked for a significant discount to market in order to stay (they asked the same of Hedman).
He made the right decision, of course, as the Lightning WERE on a path to victory. They've been in 3 of the next seven Finals, winning twice.

Meanwhile the Islanders had an extra year with Tavares before UFA compared to Stamkos. He was a UFA after 9 years with the Isles, and in that time, they missed the playoffs six out of those 9 years. They won all of a single playoff round. They'd looked like they might be building something towards the end of his time there, but he saw an opportunity to go play for a team that was a lot deeper. That hasn't translated in to any post-season success for him yet, something I'm sure he's a little chagrinned about, but there's nothing to suggest he'd have been better off with the Islanders.

Listen, I'd love to see McDavid stick around long-term. Draisaitl too. But they've put up with mediocre management for a very long time. We've heard rumours that the agent already delivered one warning to the team a couple of summers ago. I think that they're not just staying here out of the goodness of their hearts. The team needs to show that it can win, or they're gone. Despite that, we have the GM saying that he thinks his hands are tied and that he's stuck with the goalies he has, and that he can't do anything else besides tinker at the edges of the roster this year (and hopefully re-sign Bouchard). They're almost certainly trading away their 6th best forward and hoping that someone from within the organization magically appears to cheaply fill that role or that another friend of Connor is healthy and ready to rebound. And they're already blaming the salary cap for their future woes, suggesting that if it just went up more this year, they'd be able to do way more, ignoring that the cap is really the same for every team in the league.

If I'm a star player and I've read the last few interviews from Holland, I'm going to have some grave concerns and those wouldn't have me rushing to pick up a pen to sign the next deal, never mind giving the discount to market that the Oilers really will need to be asking the two of these players to consider taking.

In short, I wish I shared your optimism, but I feel if we aren't AT LEAST Cup Finalists within the next two seasons, we're losing both these players for greener pastures.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824565 is a reply to message #824561 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rutuu is currently offline Rutuu
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Agree with the message of your message...

We did have the second highest payroll in the playoffs though, just behind Vegas. We didn't use all the loopholes, you are correct, but we did use loopholes to get the Smith and Keith contracts where they are. Also taking Kane was huge when 31 other teams said no. The organisation has done a fantastic job with the fans regarding Kane's reputation risk. So credit where credit is do...I guess.

I mean looking at the causality of those moves...we had to do them because of previous blunders, but that's why we're stuck in the mud. We ARE using the loopholes though.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824577 is a reply to message #824565 ]
Tue, 27 June 2023 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Rutuu wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 20:49

Agree with the message of your message...

We did have the second highest payroll in the playoffs though, just behind Vegas. We didn't use all the loopholes, you are correct, but we did use loopholes to get the Smith and Keith contracts where they are. Also taking Kane was huge when 31 other teams said no. The organisation has done a fantastic job with the fans regarding Kane's reputation risk. So credit where credit is do...I guess.

I mean looking at the causality of those moves...we had to do them because of previous blunders, but that's why we're stuck in the mud. We ARE using the loopholes though.


I think the Oilers are using the rules as intended, not exploiting the loopholes. We got extra cap space because we had players who were legitimately injured and out long-term. We got cap relief because Keith retired - although we didn't fight for the bonus cap space we should have had (and that other teams have previously had the benefit of) because the NHL said no, and we just let it go. Smith's 'injury' was a blessing, but if he'd wanted to come back, do we really believe the Oilers have it in them to say no?

I look at Kane and Yamamoto this winter and think that the Oilers really had an opportunity to sit one, the other or both. I believe both missed the game before the trade deadline. Kane clearly wasn't 100% with his wrist injury. Yamamoto had had a couple of concussions. There's a clear opportunity to play the same games that other teams have been playing and to sideline them for another 6 weeks. It's probably not a big difference maker on where they finish. Kane had 9 points after the trade deadline, Yamamoto 11. If you bring in a good winger, they can replace a lot of that output. If we'd done that, then we're more likely to have a couple of healthy wingers in our top six for the playoffs.

I think it's notable that we have a GM who's repeatedly used the cap as a crutch - complaining that it's always tying his hands and limiting what he can do - and yet who hasn't once used a third party team in a deal to limit cap space incoming or looked at possibly holding out a player a little longer (that "saving some cap space for Koekkoek" comment from a couple years ago still kills me). Not only is he not creative himself, but Holland objects to other people's creativity and so refuses to learn from what they're doing. Cutting off his own nose to spite his face.

To be clear, especially related to Inverno's comments previously, I'm not saying that it's inevitable that McDavid & Draisaitl leave. I'm more like the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come showing Scrooge what will happen if we stay on our present course. There is still time to adjust, to become competitive and if we win the Stanley Cup, then I think we will keep those guys. But that's not our current trajectory, and management needs to bring their A-games - if those actually exist. I'm not confident in Holland's ability to do anything but get off to the cabin at the lake early in July. That $5 million a year isn't going to spend itself!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824579 is a reply to message #824577 ]
Tue, 27 June 2023 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:38

Rutuu wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 20:49

Agree with the message of your message...

We did have the second highest payroll in the playoffs though, just behind Vegas. We didn't use all the loopholes, you are correct, but we did use loopholes to get the Smith and Keith contracts where they are. Also taking Kane was huge when 31 other teams said no. The organisation has done a fantastic job with the fans regarding Kane's reputation risk. So credit where credit is do...I guess.

I mean looking at the causality of those moves...we had to do them because of previous blunders, but that's why we're stuck in the mud. We ARE using the loopholes though.


I think the Oilers are using the rules as intended, not exploiting the loopholes. We got extra cap space because we had players who were legitimately injured and out long-term. We got cap relief because Keith retired - although we didn't fight for the bonus cap space we should have had (and that other teams have previously had the benefit of) because the NHL said no, and we just let it go. Smith's 'injury' was a blessing, but if he'd wanted to come back, do we really believe the Oilers have it in them to say no?

I look at Kane and Yamamoto this winter and think that the Oilers really had an opportunity to sit one, the other or both. I believe both missed the game before the trade deadline. Kane clearly wasn't 100% with his wrist injury. Yamamoto had had a couple of concussions. There's a clear opportunity to play the same games that other teams have been playing and to sideline them for another 6 weeks. It's probably not a big difference maker on where they finish. Kane had 9 points after the trade deadline, Yamamoto 11. If you bring in a good winger, they can replace a lot of that output. If we'd done that, then we're more likely to have a couple of healthy wingers in our top six for the playoffs.

I think it's notable that we have a GM who's repeatedly used the cap as a crutch - complaining that it's always tying his hands and limiting what he can do - and yet who hasn't once used a third party team in a deal to limit cap space incoming or looked at possibly holding out a player a little longer (that "saving some cap space for Koekkoek" comment from a couple years ago still kills me). Not only is he not creative himself, but Holland objects to other people's creativity and so refuses to learn from what they're doing. Cutting off his own nose to spite his face.

To be clear, especially related to Inverno's comments previously, I'm not saying that it's inevitable that McDavid & Draisaitl leave. I'm more like the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come showing Scrooge what will happen if we stay on our present course. There is still time to adjust, to become competitive and if we win the Stanley Cup, then I think we will keep those guys. But that's not our current trajectory, and management needs to bring their A-games - if those actually exist. I'm not confident in Holland's ability to do anything but get off to the cabin at the lake early in July. That $5 million a year isn't going to spend itself!


Yeah. Not sure how players retiring or being done is exploiting a loophole. Predetermining at the deadline that a player will come back for game 1 of the playoffs and using is ltir space to stack your lineup is what everyone is pointing out.

But I guess everyone can do that if they have no shame. Vegas even released news that the hockey world can fully expect Stone to struggle with his injury for the rest of his career, so I assume he will be out for sure every season for at least the time between the trade deadline and game 1 lol.

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- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824580 is a reply to message #824579 ]
Tue, 27 June 2023 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:43


Yeah. Not sure how players retiring or being done is exploiting a loophole. Predetermining at the deadline that a player will come back for game 1 of the playoffs and using is ltir space to stack your lineup is what everyone is pointing out.

But I guess everyone can do that if they have no shame. Vegas even released news that the hockey world can fully expect Stone to struggle with his injury for the rest of his career, so I assume he will be out for sure every season for at least the time between the trade deadline and game 1 lol.


Honestly, Katz should have let go Holland right after the Duncan Keith trade and the famous "did you want me to get him for nothing?" speech. It was clear that day that he doesn't understand the importance of cap space, or relative strength in a negotiation. He got walked all over by Stan Bowman on a player with a no-move clause who really only wanted to come to Edmonton.

He showed that day just how far past his prime was, especially as over the following few days guys like Gostisbehere and Fleury were actually traded for nothing. With the expansion draft looming, he could have gotten a better defenceman cheaper, and probably picked up a real goalie too, instead of re-committing to another couple years of Mike Smith at the time and praying that he'd be even better at 81 than he was at 80.

I don't know why anyone would need to have any shame about that now...it's just established practice. If the league was going to crack down on it, they would have made a move after the Blackhawks did it with Kane, or after the Kucherov sabbatical. They didn't, and they clearly won't so it's just an established method of improving your team and outspending the cap. If you, as a GM, won't take advantage of it - especially when legitimate injuries open the door for you to do so? Then you're just handicapping your own side.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824581 is a reply to message #824561 ]
Tue, 27 June 2023 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 16:39

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:11


I believe in self-fulfilling prophesies. If the fans and the media spew the narrative that no one wants to play somewhere then it becomes reality. You need people to push bash back, and that includes fan bases as well as players and management.

McDavid does not seem to be that guy. McDavid played for Eerie when no one else would. Flailing from here would be a black mark on his legacy. Lauren Kyle is an Edmonton girl. Draisaitl is toighter than a tiger with McDavid. The team (although late) is doing it's best to surround him with teammates he wants to play with, and the franchise has entered the Cup contender stage.

Anyone can find holes in any roster, but considering 29 and 97's current and future salaries it is more than likely they remain Oilers until the end of their careers. I will give them both a Ray Bourque caveat, and if the Oilers cannot win a Cup in their primes I will support whatever franchise they turn to for the last ditched effort for a championship.

I would be shocked if they move away before another long-term deal is signed. Reality has shown that franchise players like to remain loyal and finish what they have started, and only leave in extreme circumstances.

(33 years from a Cup also included a decade of being a borderline feeder team to other NHL teams where we could not afford to pay a fair salary to our stars).


While I appreciate your optimism, I'm a realist. Players, especially the very best, want to win championships. McDavid and Draisaitl have been exceptionally good the last few years and the team has failed to surround them with adequate talent to be considered one of the top teams in the league or to contend for the Cup. McDavid even took a significant discount to what he could have got in order to lock in the best chance for the Oilers to win over his last deal.

In the time that Holland has been here, he tried to set expectations of a long turnaround when he joined and complained about the cap available. Since then he wrote off one year, saying that he didn't think we were ready to compete, while in a weak Canadian division that saw the lowly Habs go all the way to the Finals. We've seen him complain at every deadline day that he doesn't have any cap room to do anything more than the minimum, while the best teams in the league use every angle to make their teams better. We avoid doing any of those things in case Slater Koekkoek might be healthy enough to play. We're hearing him this summer say that he was counting on the cap increasing and that the fact it hasn't makes his job so much harder and he doesn't think he can add any significant pieces to the team moving forward. We have seen him commit in every year of his tenure to a below average goaltending tandem - one that isn't just underperforming, but even looks below average on paper before the first puck is dropped.

If you're scoring 150 points in the regular season and then driving a massive percentage of the team's offence in the post-season, you're going to at some point expect that management should have their game at a similar level. We just don't and we now have the GM saying "I can't guarantee we are ever going to win" and expressing doubt about his ability to do anything meaningful to improve the team.

If I'm looking at my relatively short career - one that already had one huge scare a couple years ago - and thinking about my legacy, I know I really need a Stanley Cup at some point to not have a question stuck to me the rest of my life. If I am McDavid, and I am losing faith in Management's ability to help me win, then I'm going to want to go somewhere where the management has the confidence and capability to truly go for it, and where they aren't constrained by a refusal to use any loopholes in the Cap rules. Even if I'm leaving more money on the table, I'm going somewhere where I can go get myself a Cup ring.

People sometimes want to compare it to Ovechkin, but I don't think it's a good comparison. OV signed a 12-year deal in 2008, locking him up until the end of 2020-21. He had won a Cup before he faced free agency. That said, his owner was pretty committed to surrounding him with good players and to give him a great chance of success. In all that time, other than his rookie season, they only missed the playoffs once and there was a high expectation of the team at all times. I don't remember them saying 4 or 5 years in that they couldn't go for it every year.

Two years from now, McDavid will have been in the league 11 years. In that time, Crosby had won two Cups and been to two more Finals. He'd never missed the playoffs after his rookie year. He wouldn't miss again until this season, his 18th.

Tavares and Stamkos are maybe the best comparable because things were definitely more up and down for the Lightning in his early years. Neither are superstars on even close to the same level, but both played for teams that were more challenged in their early years. Stamkos missed the playoffs four out of his first 8 seasons ahead of his UFA opportunity. His team was clearly on the rise though at the point where he faced down free agency, making the Finals in 2014-15, and the semi-finals the next year. Florida has the advantage of some great tax breaks too, so they have an extra leg up. The Lightning made a pitch to him and asked for a significant discount to market in order to stay (they asked the same of Hedman).
He made the right decision, of course, as the Lightning WERE on a path to victory. They've been in 3 of the next seven Finals, winning twice.

Meanwhile the Islanders had an extra year with Tavares before UFA compared to Stamkos. He was a UFA after 9 years with the Isles, and in that time, they missed the playoffs six out of those 9 years. They won all of a single playoff round. They'd looked like they might be building something towards the end of his time there, but he saw an opportunity to go play for a team that was a lot deeper. That hasn't translated in to any post-season success for him yet, something I'm sure he's a little chagrinned about, but there's nothing to suggest he'd have been better off with the Islanders.

Listen, I'd love to see McDavid stick around long-term. Draisaitl too. But they've put up with mediocre management for a very long time. We've heard rumours that the agent already delivered one warning to the team a couple of summers ago. I think that they're not just staying here out of the goodness of their hearts. The team needs to show that it can win, or they're gone. Despite that, we have the GM saying that he thinks his hands are tied and that he's stuck with the goalies he has, and that he can't do anything else besides tinker at the edges of the roster this year (and hopefully re-sign Bouchard). They're almost certainly trading away their 6th best forward and hoping that someone from within the organization magically appears to cheaply fill that role or that another friend of Connor is healthy and ready to rebound. And they're already blaming the salary cap for their future woes, suggesting that if it just went up more this year, they'd be able to do way more, ignoring that the cap is really the same for every team in the league.

If I'm a star player and I've read the last few interviews from Holland, I'm going to have some grave concerns and those wouldn't have me rushing to pick up a pen to sign the next deal, never mind giving the discount to market that the Oilers really will need to be asking the two of these players to consider taking.

In short, I wish I shared your optimism, but I feel if we aren't AT LEAST Cup Finalists within the next two seasons, we're losing both these players for greener pastures.


McDavid did take a pay cut, but the team also made him the highest paid player in the league. Rightfully so. He deserves every penny plus more.

Am I forgetting an truly elite player who is in their prime, when was the last one who wanted out of their city for reasons of not winning a Cup? Tavares does not count as he left for comfort. The leafs have not offered him more success than his draft team did and is a cautionary tale of what leaving for 'greener' pastures might look like. You might not consider the Ovie's, McKinnon's and Crosby's, but even with different story lines you have to admire their loyalty and consider it may be a player trait for the truly elite. Hell, even the next tier down do not often leave because even when their teams struggle. The Oilers have shown a steady improvement the past few years and although we pissed away the ELC years I think this team has reached Cup contender. It needs work, many do not trust Holland, but since the hiring of Woodcroft this has been a better team than we have seen since the 80's. I believe in this regard I am being the realist and not an optimist, unless my brain has truly fogged over or someone spiked my morning coffee.

Our perception of Holland and company is also just our perception, and we do not know the relationship he shares with his star players. I agree in principle that from an outsiders view we can see the glass being half empty, but that is not everyone's reality. It sounds like Kenny is very in-touch with his players and McDavid and Draisaitl are part of the process. That might not be the right way to do business, but it could be the way it works best in Edmonton in order to make our stars feel comfortable.

Time will tell. I do not want you to be right, but I can accept that the possibility is real. I just see it being unlikely.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824509 is a reply to message #824112 ]
Sat, 24 June 2023 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27 is currently offline kungpaobenji27
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Yeesh...Avs get Ryan Johansen for 50% off while only netting a return of Alex Galchenyuk?

Wish the Preds could've retained more of Matthias Ekholm's contract...

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824511 is a reply to message #824509 ]
Sat, 24 June 2023 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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kungpaobenji27 wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 10:30

Yeesh...Avs get Ryan Johansen for 50% off while only netting a return of Alex Galchenyuk?

Wish the Preds could've retained more of Matthias Ekholm's contract...


Galchenyuk is UFA in a few days.. RyJo was effectively traded for nothing except 4M cap relief.
True, might've been nice if Nashville retained more, but Ekholm is a legit #1 NHL D-man.. would've been hard to get a better deal, especially at the trade deadline where his value is highest.. RyJo was a cap dump.

RyJo smells like he could be a Kyle Turris move... Avs betting 4M in cap on it.

[Updated on: Sat, 24 June 2023 15:14]

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Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824514 is a reply to message #824511 ]
Sat, 24 June 2023 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 15:03

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 10:30

Yeesh...Avs get Ryan Johansen for 50% off while only netting a return of Alex Galchenyuk?

Wish the Preds could've retained more of Matthias Ekholm's contract...


Galchenyuk is UFA in a few days.. RyJo was effectively traded for nothing except 4M cap relief.
True, might've been nice if Nashville retained more, but Ekholm is a legit #1 NHL D-man.. would've been hard to get a better deal, especially at the trade deadline where his value is highest.. RyJo was a cap dump.

RyJo smells like he could be a Kyle Turris move... Avs betting 4M in cap on it.


Basically a buyout but this way they cut the term in half. What we all dream we could do instead of buying guys out.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824515 is a reply to message #824514 ]
Sat, 24 June 2023 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 14:32

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 15:03

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 10:30

Yeesh...Avs get Ryan Johansen for 50% off while only netting a return of Alex Galchenyuk?

Wish the Preds could've retained more of Matthias Ekholm's contract...


Galchenyuk is UFA in a few days.. RyJo was effectively traded for nothing except 4M cap relief.
True, might've been nice if Nashville retained more, but Ekholm is a legit #1 NHL D-man.. would've been hard to get a better deal, especially at the trade deadline where his value is highest.. RyJo was a cap dump.

RyJo smells like he could be a Kyle Turris move... Avs betting 4M in cap on it.


Basically a buyout but this way they cut the term in half. What we all dream we could do instead of buying guys out.


You dump a cap hit like that you need a guy that's feeling lucky to deal with.. Avs taking a bet on RyJo turning it around.. could be a sucka bet.. or roll sixes..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824517 is a reply to message #824515 ]
Sat, 24 June 2023 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27 is currently offline kungpaobenji27
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 16:58

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 14:32

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 15:03

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Sat, 24 June 2023 10:30

Yeesh...Avs get Ryan Johansen for 50% off while only netting a return of Alex Galchenyuk?

Wish the Preds could've retained more of Matthias Ekholm's contract...


Galchenyuk is UFA in a few days.. RyJo was effectively traded for nothing except 4M cap relief.
True, might've been nice if Nashville retained more, but Ekholm is a legit #1 NHL D-man.. would've been hard to get a better deal, especially at the trade deadline where his value is highest.. RyJo was a cap dump.

RyJo smells like he could be a Kyle Turris move... Avs betting 4M in cap on it.


Basically a buyout but this way they cut the term in half. What we all dream we could do instead of buying guys out.


You dump a cap hit like that you need a guy that's feeling lucky to deal with.. Avs taking a bet on RyJo turning it around.. could be a sucka bet.. or roll sixes..


RyJo always rubbed me as a guy with coveted size and high end talent up the middle...right shot too...though never really came off as super motivated. We'll see what side of him comes out with the Avs...

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824512 is a reply to message #824112 ]
Sat, 24 June 2023 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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LA just dumped Durzi to Arizona for a 2nd rounder.. Durzi was only 1 more year at 1.7M

LA has 9M in cap space now.. but need to sign a goaltender.. only have 16 of 23 roster spots under contract.. up to something?

Maybe Yamo can get back a pick? .. a 3rd?

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824518 is a reply to message #824112 ]
Sun, 25 June 2023 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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LeBrun saying Krug was in the trade talks between St. Louis and Phili.. but doesn't want to go.. delaying trade for Hayes.. wow.. didn't see Krug going anywhere.. of all the D-men in St. Louis that could be moved, I thought he was the the one that they'd keep..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824520 is a reply to message #824518 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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If the Kings trade for Dubois happens, I am not convinced that makes then better. There is something up with Dubios as this will be his third team at 25 and the Kings will probably be giving him close to 9 mill based on what all the rumors are.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824521 is a reply to message #824520 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27 is currently offline kungpaobenji27
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:54

If the Kings trade for Dubois happens, I am not convinced that makes then better. There is something up with Dubios as this will be his third team at 25 and the Kings will probably be giving him close to 9 mill based on what all the rumors are.


If I'm the Jets, I don't settle for the rumored package of ONLY Vilardi and Iafallo....I hold out for Byfield on top of a RD prospect as well.

Too bad they couldn't get Durzi in the package as he was previously shipped off to the Coyotes for a 2nd rounder

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824522 is a reply to message #824521 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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kungpaobenji27 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:54

If the Kings trade for Dubois happens, I am not convinced that makes then better. There is something up with Dubios as this will be his third team at 25 and the Kings will probably be giving him close to 9 mill based on what all the rumors are.


If I'm the Jets, I don't settle for the rumored package of ONLY Vilardi and Iafallo....I hold out for Byfield on top of a RD prospect as well.

Too bad they couldn't get Durzi in the package as he was previously shipped off to the Coyotes for a 2nd rounder


I think Iafalo and Vilardi are pretty good players.

Byfield in 53 games had 3 goals, 22 pts.

Iafalo is 29 and a good top 9 forward who in 59 games had 14 goals, 36 pts. That's a 20 goal, 50 pt season. Over his career, he's been pretty consistent at high teens in goals 35+ pts.

Vilardi in 63 games had 22G, 41 pts in his second year. That's a 30 goal 53 pts pace. He skates well, aggressive on the puck. Seems like a pretty good player.

Byfield is 20 so there is a chance he could improve but playing in their top 6, he sure looked like he is a long ways from being a top 6 guy.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824524 is a reply to message #824522 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27 is currently offline kungpaobenji27
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 10:47

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:54

If the Kings trade for Dubois happens, I am not convinced that makes then better. There is something up with Dubios as this will be his third team at 25 and the Kings will probably be giving him close to 9 mill based on what all the rumors are.


If I'm the Jets, I don't settle for the rumored package of ONLY Vilardi and Iafallo....I hold out for Byfield on top of a RD prospect as well.

Too bad they couldn't get Durzi in the package as he was previously shipped off to the Coyotes for a 2nd rounder


I think Iafalo and Vilardi are pretty good players.

Byfield in 53 games had 3 goals, 22 pts.

Iafalo is 29 and a good top 9 forward who in 59 games had 14 goals, 36 pts. That's a 20 goal, 50 pt season. Over his career, he's been pretty consistent at high teens in goals 35+ pts.

Vilardi in 63 games had 22G, 41 pts in his second year. That's a 30 goal 53 pts pace. He skates well, aggressive on the puck. Seems like a pretty good player.

Byfield is 20 so there is a chance he could improve but playing in their top 6, he sure looked like he is a long ways from being a top 6 guy.


Jury is still out on whether Vilardi can put up those numbers consistently as a reliable cornerstone of the top 6 not to mention WPG needs a 1st/2nd line calibre center....can Vilardi be as productive switching back to his natural position at the NHL level from being a complimentary winger?

Byfield's skating presence alone kind of scared me against the Oilers...his finishing and playmaking isn't quite there yet but the eye test indicates that it's improving...plus he's consistently at the right place at the right time so his development is progressing faster than I'd like on a division rival.

Iafalo is more of a productive 3rd line winger as verdict is still out on how consistent he can be heading into the future....

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824546 is a reply to message #824524 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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kungpaobenji27 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 11:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 10:47

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:54

If the Kings trade for Dubois happens, I am not convinced that makes then better. There is something up with Dubios as this will be his third team at 25 and the Kings will probably be giving him close to 9 mill based on what all the rumors are.


If I'm the Jets, I don't settle for the rumored package of ONLY Vilardi and Iafallo....I hold out for Byfield on top of a RD prospect as well.

Too bad they couldn't get Durzi in the package as he was previously shipped off to the Coyotes for a 2nd rounder


I think Iafalo and Vilardi are pretty good players.

Byfield in 53 games had 3 goals, 22 pts.

Iafalo is 29 and a good top 9 forward who in 59 games had 14 goals, 36 pts. That's a 20 goal, 50 pt season. Over his career, he's been pretty consistent at high teens in goals 35+ pts.

Vilardi in 63 games had 22G, 41 pts in his second year. That's a 30 goal 53 pts pace. He skates well, aggressive on the puck. Seems like a pretty good player.

Byfield is 20 so there is a chance he could improve but playing in their top 6, he sure looked like he is a long ways from being a top 6 guy.


Jury is still out on whether Vilardi can put up those numbers consistently as a reliable cornerstone of the top 6 not to mention WPG needs a 1st/2nd line calibre center....can Vilardi be as productive switching back to his natural position at the NHL level from being a complimentary winger?

Byfield's skating presence alone kind of scared me against the Oilers...his finishing and playmaking isn't quite there yet but the eye test indicates that it's improving...plus he's consistently at the right place at the right time so his development is progressing faster than I'd like on a division rival.

Iafalo is more of a productive 3rd line winger as verdict is still out on how consistent he can be heading into the future....



If I am the Jets I hold out for Byfield too. It looks like total rebuild may take place, and a 29 year forward coming off his second injury riddled season in 3 years does not align with a team looking to build a core group of young players. It is not like Iafallo is a noted locker-room leader.

Valardi too has suffered a serious enough back injury that it has held him out of the lineup for large stretches of his young career. So far the Jets are gambling much more than the Kings on this deal.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824525 is a reply to message #824521 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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kungpaobenji27 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 08:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 09:54

If the Kings trade for Dubois happens, I am not convinced that makes then better. There is something up with Dubios as this will be his third team at 25 and the Kings will probably be giving him close to 9 mill based on what all the rumors are.


If I'm the Jets, I don't settle for the rumored package of ONLY Vilardi and Iafallo....I hold out for Byfield on top of a RD prospect as well.

Too bad they couldn't get Durzi in the package as he was previously shipped off to the Coyotes for a 2nd rounder


I hope Winni holds out for everything they can get from LA.. have a bidding war with Montreal.. include a 1st in there as well.. I think Dubois will disappoint whoever gets him.. x 8 year max contract .. so I kind of hope its LA and they get fleeced.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824523 is a reply to message #824520 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 08:54

If the Kings trade for Dubois happens, I am not convinced that makes then better. There is something up with Dubios as this will be his third team at 25 and the Kings will probably be giving him close to 9 mill based on what all the rumors are.


Dubois is a very good player.

He's left a bad situation where he and the coach weren't seeing eye to eye in Columbus. Tortorella is a notoriously difficult coach to work with, and he didn't outlast Dubois by very long. It's worth noting that Dubois was traded for Laine - so it's not like he was just let go by Columbus. To this point, I probably give the Blue Jackets the win in that deal because they also got Roslovic, so even with Laine having some injury issues there, they have got 254 points out of that deal to Dubois' 143 in the three years since. The extra piece for Winnipeg was a 3rd round pick who was still in the OHL last year but it's not looking like he'll be an impact guy. Worth noting, both Laine and Roslovic had asked to get out of Winnipeg, so it's possible the Jets were in the weaker negotiating position. (Also interesting to me is that Laine's actually been VERY good in the last two years as a Blue Jacket. 108 points in 111 games. Minus player, but significantly better than many others on the team - he was -12 to Gaudreau's -33 last year for instance. The narrative on him has been that he's been a disappointment, but the stats don't really bear that out. I wonder if some team doesn't get him at a bargain rate at some point.)

With Winnipeg, he wants out, but again, that team has been a mess and virtually everyone wants to start fresh. Bowness - statistically one of the worst coaches of all-time - was throwing his players under the bus at the end of the season after losing a round where they weren't expected to win and where they were short several players from injuries, so it's hard to blame anyone for looking for an exit there.

While I would rather have Laine than Dubois, he's a pretty solid player.

All that said, I'm curious what the full deal looks like. Iafallo put up 36 points in 59 games last year. Vilardi is only 23 (24 in August) and put up 41 in 63 games last season (Dubois was 63 in 73 games). If the Kings are getting nothing else back, then this is one that could look lopsided against them in the future. Vilardi is probably slightly cheaper than Dubois on their next contracts, so there's a bit of a cap savings for LA maybe, but unless they spend that to add another solid winger, I don't see this as a clear win for them. Vilardi could potentially be scoring at the same rate as Dubois next year at a cheaper rate! All that of course is caveated on not knowing what else is in the deal. If the Jets also give a good pick or prospect, then it's a little closer.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824526 is a reply to message #824523 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Taylor Hall is going to be going to Chicago.

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 Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824527 is a reply to message #824526 ]
Mon, 26 June 2023 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 12:50

Taylor Hall is going to be going to Chicago.


I'm a little surprised Chicago wasn't on his 10-team no-trade list...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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