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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824481 is a reply to message #824458 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 16:51

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3912
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 11:41

I don't mind adding another Connor, but if the Brown version is being looked at as being the solution to the Oilers problems, I have some concerns. His production has been up and down from very useful (20 goals twice) to very middling (8). Which is fine because the Oilers have goal production well covered. Buttttt if he's being looked at to replace Foegele or Yammo as maybe the 6th forwards he's a guy who looks like he peaked in the bubble season and would be coming back from missing the entire last year. I'd imagine he's looking at taking a pay cut from the $3.6 million he made last season, which should be a good thing, butttt he's a UFA (probably) taking less money on his first UFA contract. Is that the guy to push the Oilers over the top into true cup contention?

I have some concerns.

Because injury, he qualifies for bonus laden contract.
You could get him at league min. ($750k?) + bonuses which would apply to next year's cap.. on a one year .. cap expected to go up to $90M + next year.

He's coming back from an ACL so he won't be commanding a lot.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824483 is a reply to message #824481 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 18:32

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 16:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 11:41

I don't mind adding another Connor, but if the Brown version is being looked at as being the solution to the Oilers problems, I have some concerns. His production has been up and down from very useful (20 goals twice) to very middling (8). Which is fine because the Oilers have goal production well covered. Buttttt if he's being looked at to replace Foegele or Yammo as maybe the 6th forwards he's a guy who looks like he peaked in the bubble season and would be coming back from missing the entire last year. I'd imagine he's looking at taking a pay cut from the $3.6 million he made last season, which should be a good thing, butttt he's a UFA (probably) taking less money on his first UFA contract. Is that the guy to push the Oilers over the top into true cup contention?

I have some concerns.

Because injury, he qualifies for bonus laden contract.
You could get him at league min. ($750k?) + bonuses which would apply to next year's cap.. on a one year .. cap expected to go up to $90M + next year.

He's coming back from an ACL so he won't be commanding a lot.

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824488 is a reply to message #824483 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 09:55

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 17:32

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

Lol, if this is actually what they were thinking it would be very Oilers to do everything they can other than actually, you know, taking steps to make the team a perennial contender.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824489 is a reply to message #824488 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 09:59

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 17:32

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

Lol, if this is actually what they were thinking it would be very Oilers to do everything they can other than actually, you know, taking steps to make the team a perennial contender.

So bringing in good players who you know McD gets along with and will probably fit well in the room that McD controls is a bad thing and not helping to build a contender in your opinion?

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824491 is a reply to message #824489 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:59

Goose wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 17:32

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

Lol, if this is actually what they were thinking it would be very Oilers to do everything they can other than actually, you know, taking steps to make the team a perennial contender.

So bringing in good players who you know McD gets along with and will probably fit well in the room that McD controls is a bad thing and not helping to build a contender in your opinion?

I hate nepotism hires as much as the next person, but if Brown is healthy then he is going to help the lineup get over the hump and it is just a bonus that he is buddies with our captain.

Players always talk to each other about playing on the same team. I would rather have McDavid convincing guys to come to Edmonton over other players convincing McDavid to go elsewhere. McDavid wants to win, and it's not like he is trying to get his brother to play right wing on his line. Connor Brown is a play driver who can move up and down the lineup, and play special teams.

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824493 is a reply to message #824491 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:12

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

Have you considered a career as a management consultant? Toss in some jargon about leveraging soft skills and using modern methods adapted to traditional business ideas and your have a business plan. Let's take it offline and circle back.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824500 is a reply to message #824493 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 14:10

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:12

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

Have you considered a career as a management consultant? Toss in some jargon about leveraging soft skills and using modern methods adapted to traditional business ideas and your have a business plan. Let's take it offline and circle back.

It's actually kind of funny that the only time they didn't go get a buddy of McDavid's was when they decided to draft Benson over DeBrincat. Well, that and trading his friend Taylor Hall for a defensive defenceman.

I do wish that McDavid made more superstar friends though...or that he'd talk them in to taking significant discounts in order to come here...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824501 is a reply to message #824500 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 14:19

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 14:10

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:12

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

Have you considered a career as a management consultant? Toss in some jargon about leveraging soft skills and using modern methods adapted to traditional business ideas and your have a business plan. Let's take it offline and circle back.

It's actually kind of funny that the only time they didn't go get a buddy of McDavid's was when they decided to draft Benson over DeBrincat. Well, that and trading his friend Taylor Hall for a defensive defenceman.

I do wish that McDavid made more superstar friends though...or that he'd talk them in to taking significant discounts in order to come here...

I blame Gary for this. He cancelled the Olympics. He made the stupid Team North America Young Guns team at the world cup (get uniforms though). Where is McDavid supposed to make friends? It's like he's been home schooled in a cave.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824504 is a reply to message #824501 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 14:47

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 14:19

Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 14:10

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:12

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

Have you considered a career as a management consultant? Toss in some jargon about leveraging soft skills and using modern methods adapted to traditional business ideas and your have a business plan. Let's take it offline and circle back.

It's actually kind of funny that the only time they didn't go get a buddy of McDavid's was when they decided to draft Benson over DeBrincat. Well, that and trading his friend Taylor Hall for a defensive defenceman.

I do wish that McDavid made more superstar friends though...or that he'd talk them in to taking significant discounts in order to come here...

I blame Gary for this. He cancelled the Olympics. He made the stupid Team North America Young Guns team at the world cup (get uniforms though). Where is McDavid supposed to make friends? It's like he's been home schooled in a cave.

Look at that roster though!

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/17576/team-north-america /2016-2017

If only McDavid had stayed close to more of those guys instead of Foegele, Hyman, Shore and Connor Brown!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824502 is a reply to message #824500 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 14:36

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 14:10

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:12

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

Have you considered a career as a management consultant? Toss in some jargon about leveraging soft skills and using modern methods adapted to traditional business ideas and your have a business plan. Let's take it offline and circle back.

It's actually kind of funny that the only time they didn't go get a buddy of McDavid's was when they decided to draft Benson over DeBrincat. Well, that and trading his friend Taylor Hall for a defensive defenceman.

I do wish that McDavid made more superstar friends though...or that he'd talk them in to taking significant discounts in order to come here...

The oilers have built up a nice storyline with small highly ranked players in the draft. Don't take DeBrincat because of size. Take Yams to prove they don't care about size. Then pass on DeBrincat's actual clone in Caufield. It's all worked out really well.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824503 is a reply to message #824502 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 14:44

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 14:36

Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 14:10

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:12

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

Have you considered a career as a management consultant? Toss in some jargon about leveraging soft skills and using modern methods adapted to traditional business ideas and your have a business plan. Let's take it offline and circle back.

It's actually kind of funny that the only time they didn't go get a buddy of McDavid's was when they decided to draft Benson over DeBrincat. Well, that and trading his friend Taylor Hall for a defensive defenceman.

I do wish that McDavid made more superstar friends though...or that he'd talk them in to taking significant discounts in order to come here...

The oilers have built up a nice storyline with small highly ranked players in the draft. Don't take DeBrincat because of size. Take Yams to prove they don't care about size. Then pass on DeBrincat's actual clone in Caufield. It's all worked out really well.

Hey, I've got it on good authority that Yamamoto and the New Jersey Devils have proven you can't possibly win with small players in the playoffs. If Bob Stauffer doesn't think it can work, why would anyone doubt that?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824494 is a reply to message #824491 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:14

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:59

Goose wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 17:32

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

Lol, if this is actually what they were thinking it would be very Oilers to do everything they can other than actually, you know, taking steps to make the team a perennial contender.

So bringing in good players who you know McD gets along with and will probably fit well in the room that McD controls is a bad thing and not helping to build a contender in your opinion?

I hate nepotism hires as much as the next person, but if Brown is healthy then he is going to help the lineup get over the hump and it is just a bonus that he is buddies with our captain.

Players always talk to each other about playing on the same team. I would rather have McDavid convincing guys to come to Edmonton over other players convincing McDavid to go elsewhere. McDavid wants to win, and it's not like he is trying to get his brother to play right wing on his line. Connor Brown is a play driver who can move up and down the lineup, and play special teams.

Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid? We don't need pro scouts, we just need Connor to work his group chats.

Tons of players all train together. What was it a year or 2 ago that McD and Matthews hung out and trained a bit. Gone are the days where these players are sworn enemies never interacting with the other teams.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824499 is a reply to message #824491 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 14:01

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3912
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:07

.. Who else is cheap, good and connected to McDavid?

Taylor Raddysh.. played in Errie with McD.. 25.. R. Wing.. scored 20 goals last year with Chicago.. making $758K.. RFA next year.. with hammer.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824492 is a reply to message #824489 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:10

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:59

Goose wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 17:32

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

Lol, if this is actually what they were thinking it would be very Oilers to do everything they can other than actually, you know, taking steps to make the team a perennial contender.

So bringing in good players who you know McD gets along with and will probably fit well in the room that McD controls is a bad thing and not helping to build a contender in your opinion?

The problems are no one knows if he's a good player now and groups of super friends have not always translated into wins. So yes, signing an injured player because he's buds with McDavid is not helping build a contender. Signing an injured player on a cheap contract (plus bonuses) who you think will return to his 2021 form who just happens to be buds with McDavid is a good idea. This is a case where a good GM would need to rely on a good set of pro scouts.

The thought process on how you get to a decision is very important to the outcome.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824497 is a reply to message #824489 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:46

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 08:59

Goose wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 17:32

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

Lol, if this is actually what they were thinking it would be very Oilers to do everything they can other than actually, you know, taking steps to make the team a perennial contender.

So bringing in good players who you know McD gets along with and will probably fit well in the room that McD controls is a bad thing and not helping to build a contender in your opinion?

If the primary reason that you're bringing in a player is because he's buddies with McDavid, then no, I don't think that's how you build a contender and you're not serious about winning. There's an opportunity cost to every player they bring in, so you can't just say that they can get him cheap so there's no risk. Whoever they bring in means taking a spot away from someone else, someone who might be better. It's Ken Holland's job to figure that out.

If they think he can play, and have reliable, objective data (as reliable and objective as you can get anyways), to back that up and they truly think he's the best option out there, then sure, go for it. But if the idea is, look, he used to be able to play, and he's friends with McDavid so let's get him and hope it works out and they burn half a year figuring out that it's not going to work, then that's a total failure on managements part.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824495 is a reply to message #824488 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:24

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Goose wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 09:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 17:32

Think Connor and McDavid are really good buds. Connor took McDavid under his wing when McDavid started in the OHL. Seems like a no-brainer add to keep McDavid happy as we approach the McDrai 3rd contract phase of this rebuild :)

Lol, if this is actually what they were thinking it would be very Oilers to do everything they can other than actually, you know, taking steps to make the team a perennial contender.

Well, since we have established over and over that Holland cannot guarantee any success icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

, I suppose the thing to focus on is just keeping McDrai for the fans. Stocking up McBuddies makes sense :) Bonus iff they are actually decent players. Brown, unless his leg is really messed up, could be a good add if he comes cheap.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824484 is a reply to message #824481 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 19:59

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 16:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 11:41

I don't mind adding another Connor, but if the Brown version is being looked at as being the solution to the Oilers problems, I have some concerns. His production has been up and down from very useful (20 goals twice) to very middling (8). Which is fine because the Oilers have goal production well covered. Buttttt if he's being looked at to replace Foegele or Yammo as maybe the 6th forwards he's a guy who looks like he peaked in the bubble season and would be coming back from missing the entire last year. I'd imagine he's looking at taking a pay cut from the $3.6 million he made last season, which should be a good thing, butttt he's a UFA (probably) taking less money on his first UFA contract. Is that the guy to push the Oilers over the top into true cup contention?

I have some concerns.

Because injury, he qualifies for bonus laden contract.
You could get him at league min. ($750k?) + bonuses which would apply to next year's cap.. on a one year .. cap expected to go up to $90M + next year.

He's coming back from an ACL so he won't be commanding a lot.

Oh I didn’t know the relationship between injury and bonus contracts. I like this a lot more now. It still might create dead cap space and don’t I don’t like banking on a cap increase. It’s a much much better risk with that kind of contract.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824486 is a reply to message #824484 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 23:14

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3912
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 18:59

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 16:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 11:41

I don't mind adding another Connor, but if the Brown version is being looked at as being the solution to the Oilers problems, I have some concerns. His production has been up and down from very useful (20 goals twice) to very middling (8). Which is fine because the Oilers have goal production well covered. Buttttt if he's being looked at to replace Foegele or Yammo as maybe the 6th forwards he's a guy who looks like he peaked in the bubble season and would be coming back from missing the entire last year. I'd imagine he's looking at taking a pay cut from the $3.6 million he made last season, which should be a good thing, butttt he's a UFA (probably) taking less money on his first UFA contract. Is that the guy to push the Oilers over the top into true cup contention?

I have some concerns.

Because injury, he qualifies for bonus laden contract.
You could get him at league min. ($750k?) + bonuses which would apply to next year's cap.. on a one year .. cap expected to go up to $90M + next year.

He's coming back from an ACL so he won't be commanding a lot.

Oh I didn’t know the relationship between injury and bonus contracts. I like this a lot more now. It still might create dead cap space and don’t I don’t like banking on a cap increase. It’s a much much better risk with that kind of contract.

Similar clause that the Bruins were able to give Krejci ($1M + $2M Perf. Bonus) and Bergeron ($2.5M + $2.5M Perf. Bonus) .. now they have to add the perf. bonuses ($3.5M)to their cap this coming year..

Quote:

A Performance Bonus can be given to a player in addition to their salary. Performance bonuses are only paid to the player if they meet the requirements as defined by the bonus. Performance bonuses count against the salary cap; however, a team can exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses by the maximum performance bonus cushion amount of 7.5 percent of the upper limit. Not all players are eligible for Performance Bonuses, and to receive a bonus within their contract, a player must meet one of the following criteria:

1. The player is on an entry-level contract.

2. The player has signed a one-year contract and is over 35 years old.

3. The player has signed a one-year contract after returning from a long-term injury (has played 400 or more games, and spent 100 or more days on the Injured Reserve in the last year of their most recent contract).

[Updated on: Thu, 22 June 2023 00:01]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824461 is a reply to message #824456 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 13:32

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 11:56

Here's Connor Brown in action.. looks like he has some wheels and a shot..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfQmrTXMQGg&t=78s

Might be an Oiler July 1st.
https://twitter.com/lukegazdic/status/1671244250342719492

I would assume given his injury, most teams would only be offering 1 yr just to see where he's at. I can't think of a better team to sign a 1 yr deal if you want to potentially have a big year to get that next deal than the Oilers. Pretty good chance you will be playing with one of McD or Leon. Like Hyman has figured out, all you have to do is skate hard and go to the net and one of those 2 will find you. Hyman isn't scoring that many goals where he beats goalies from distance.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824462 is a reply to message #824461 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 13:56

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
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No Cups

He could easily squeeze for 2 years.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824465 is a reply to message #824462 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:02

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:56

He could easily squeeze for 2 years.

Holland just has to make sure year 2 is buyout friendly. Gotta save those slots!

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824472 is a reply to message #824110 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:41

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Quote:

Steve said:

Is there any GM that could take the current situation and find a way to pay Bouchard $7-$8M next season? I think that takes more than creativity. It would also require multiple favours from other GMs. I'm not seeing it.

I think it would take replacing Nurse with an equivalent player for at least $3M less. Good luck.

For some reason, the reply to that particular post is a dead link for me, so starting fresh. Sorry for anyone who likes that cursed tree view as this is going to throw you all off.

I think there is a market for Nurse, even at his price point, and I think he could be replaced by a guy making $5MM/season based on what he brings. I think that's probably a little light for where he should be at - but closer than where he is.

Alternatively, maybe you do look to flush all the bad contracts and replace them with cheaper ones. Holloway takes the Yamamoto spot, Foegele is replaced by a guy at $1.25 per. Kulak moved on and replaced by Broberg. Ceci might have to stay, because right shot bargains aren't easy to find and even if you did, you'd want that guy to replace Desharnais so he's not an every night player. That's still saving you $5-6MM already. That about doubles the cap space and doesn't open up any additional holes - I think it leaves enough that if you get him at $7MM for 8 years, you can still fill out the roster.

It would undoubtedly require some bold moves though and an ability to rely on cheap young talent at the bottom of your roster - something we've always seen the Oilers afraid of doing.

If someone was really creative, they even could find a way to disappear Jack Campbell and maybe we can use some of the additional money there to bolster the goalie position while getting Bouchard under a long-term deal.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824476 is a reply to message #824472 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:52

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

you know, you could buy out Nurse. It would only run until 2037 and cost 1.8 against the cap...

https://puckpedia.com/player/darnell-nurse/buyout?s=2023-202 4

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824477 is a reply to message #824476 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:54

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 14:52

you know, you could buy out Nurse. It would only run until 2037 and cost 1.8 against the cap...

https://puckpedia.com/player/darnell-nurse/buyout?s=2023-202 4

Impressive poison pill that his agent worked in to that though...while you'd be at $1.8MM for the next couple years, that jumps to over $9MM cap hit for four years starting in 2025-26. You'd get to pay full ticket for a guy who's long gone (and probably still playing against you).

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824478 is a reply to message #824477 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 15:02

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
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Location: edmonton

No Cups

yeah, but that's the next GM's issue!

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824479 is a reply to message #824478 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 15:16

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

The 9 million cap hit is after the cup window slams shut and with the cap expected to rise over the next14 years the next GM after the next GM probably won't even notice the buyout.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824480 is a reply to message #824479 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 16:50

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 15:16

The 9 million cap hit is after the cup window slams shut and with the cap expected to rise over the next14 years the next GM after the next GM probably won't even notice the buyout.

Imagine all the cap room he'll have after McDavid and Draisaitl leave to win Cups somewhere else?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824496 is a reply to message #824480 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:26

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
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Location: edmonton

No Cups

for the record, if you buyout McD to get some of that sweet cap relief, it still costs you 10mil a year.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824498 is a reply to message #824496 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 10:52

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 22 June 2023 10:26

for the record, if you buyout McD to get some of that sweet cap relief, it still costs you 10mil a year.

Amazing post. It got audible laughter out of me and I'll share it at the coffee pot.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824490 is a reply to message #824477 ]	Thu, 22 June 2023 09:59

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 14:54

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 14:52

you know, you could buy out Nurse. It would only run until 2037 and cost 1.8 against the cap...

https://puckpedia.com/player/darnell-nurse/buyout?s=2023-202 4

Impressive poison pill that his agent worked in to that though...while you'd be at $1.8MM for the next couple years, that jumps to over $9MM cap hit for four years starting in 2025-26. You'd get to pay full ticket for a guy who's long gone (and probably still playing against you).

I was on board with it until I saw the 9.89M cap hit from 2026-2030. Hahaha. Brutal. We are better off surrounding Nurse with help, and learning from our mistakes (after we screw up on Bouchard).

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824582 is a reply to message #824110 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 10:52

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3912
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Re-sign D. Samorukov?[ 15 vote(s) ]

1. Yep! 10 / 67%
2. Nope! 3 / 20%
3. Who? 2 / 13%

St. Louis doesn't qualify D. Samorukov .. he's a free agent

Should Oilers re-sign him for Bako? Defence cupboards are pretty bare down there (LD)

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824613 is a reply to message #824582 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 16:28

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Nugent- Bowman saying the Oilers are Ok to give Kostin a deal in the 1.1-1.5 range, similar to what I suggested, his camp is looking for 1.75-2 mill.

I like some of the things Kostin brings. I like the fact that in pretty limited playing time, he found a way to produce. That's what bottom 6 guys need to do. But he's not proven enough to warrant close to 2 mill. IF he wanted to sign a 1 yr at 1.25 and he can produce again, them maybe he could be worth more. I can appreciate a player trying to get as much money as he can but he and his agent need to be real careful. For lots of these bottom 6 guys, the difference between staying in the NHL and being out is small. It can be about opportunity but also about fit and being with the right team, with the right coaches at the right time. So he may find another team that might give him more but the fit/opportunity might not be as good.

I hope for his sake that if he does sign with someone else, he's not one of those guy who a few years from now is playing somewhere else saying I should have took a little less and stayed with the Oilers.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824614 is a reply to message #824613 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 16:39

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 16:28

Nugent- Bowman saying the Oilers are Ok to give Kostin a deal in the 1.1-1.5 range, similar to what I suggested, his camp is looking for 1.75-2 mill.

I like some of the things Kostin brings. I like the fact that in pretty limited playing time, he found a way to produce. That's what bottom 6 guys need to do. But he's not proven enough to warrant close to 2 mill. IF he wanted to sign a 1 yr at 1.25 and he can produce again, them maybe he could be worth more. I can appreciate a player trying to get as much money as he can but he and his agent need to be real careful. For lots of these bottom 6 guys, the difference between staying in the NHL and being out is small. It can be about opportunity but also about fit and being with the right team, with the right coaches at the right time. So he may find another team that might give him more but the fit/opportunity might not be as good.

I hope for his sake that if he does sign with someone else, he's not one of those guy who a few years from now is playing somewhere else saying I should have took a little less and stayed with the Oilers.

Those numbers are all nuts. $1.1MM is probably too rich for him. There's no good reason to overpay for a fourth liner with terrible possession statistics.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824620 is a reply to message #824614 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 21:01

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 16:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 16:28

Nugent- Bowman saying the Oilers are Ok to give Kostin a deal in the 1.1-1.5 range, similar to what I suggested, his camp is looking for 1.75-2 mill.

I like some of the things Kostin brings. I like the fact that in pretty limited playing time, he found a way to produce. That's what bottom 6 guys need to do. But he's not proven enough to warrant close to 2 mill. IF he wanted to sign a 1 yr at 1.25 and he can produce again, them maybe he could be worth more. I can appreciate a player trying to get as much money as he can but he and his agent need to be real careful. For lots of these bottom 6 guys, the difference between staying in the NHL and being out is small. It can be about opportunity but also about fit and being with the right team, with the right coaches at the right time. So he may find another team that might give him more but the fit/opportunity might not be as good.

I hope for his sake that if he does sign with someone else, he's not one of those guy who a few years from now is playing somewhere else saying I should have took a little less and stayed with the Oilers.

Those numbers are all nuts. $1.1MM is probably too rich for him. There's no good reason to overpay for a fourth liner with terrible possession statistics.

Hold the line Ken!

What a huge career error for Kostin if he did leave. If he really believes in his abilities, a 1 year deal gives him the chance to pump his stats with McDavid or Drai. Many guys have got nice paydays from just a good month or 2 with them. Just takes an injury, or he himself playing well to get that chance. I think Holland wins this standoff if he just sticks to what is completely reasonable.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824621 is a reply to message #824620 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 21:16

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 21:01

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 16:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 16:28

Nugent- Bowman saying the Oilers are Ok to give Kostin a deal in the 1.1-1.5 range, similar to what I suggested, his camp is looking for 1.75-2 mill.

I like some of the things Kostin brings. I like the fact that in pretty limited playing time, he found a way to produce. That's what bottom 6 guys need to do. But he's not proven enough to warrant close to 2 mill. IF he wanted to sign a 1 yr at 1.25 and he can produce again, them maybe he could be worth more. I can appreciate a player trying to get as much money as he can but he and his agent need to be real careful. For lots of these bottom 6 guys, the difference between staying in the NHL and being out is small. It can be about opportunity but also about fit and being with the right team, with the right coaches at the right time. So he may find another team that might give him more but the fit/opportunity might not be as good.

I hope for his sake that if he does sign with someone else, he's not one of those guy who a few years from now is playing somewhere else saying I should have took a little less and stayed with the Oilers.

Those numbers are all nuts. $1.1MM is probably too rich for him. There's no good reason to overpay for a fourth liner with terrible possession statistics.

Hold the line Ken!

What a huge career error for Kostin if he did leave. If he really believes in his abilities, a 1 year deal gives him the chance to pump his stats with McDavid or Drai. Many guys have got nice paydays from just a good month or 2 with them. Just takes an injury, or he himself playing well to get that chance. I think Holland wins this standoff if he just sticks to what is completely reasonable.

If he really has an offer at $1.5MM and his agent is playing hardball, then they’ve got Holland marked out as a sucker. That would be a ridiculous overpayment already.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824622 is a reply to message #824621 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 22:36

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 21:16

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 21:01

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 16:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 16:28

Nugent- Bowman saying the Oilers are Ok to give Kostin a deal in the 1.1-1.5 range, similar to what I suggested, his camp is looking for 1.75-2 mill.

I like some of the things Kostin brings. I like the fact that in pretty limited playing time, he found a way to produce. That's what bottom 6 guys need to do. But he's not proven enough to warrant close to 2 mill. IF he wanted to sign a 1 yr at 1.25 and he can produce again, them maybe he could be worth more. I can appreciate a player trying to get as much money as he can but he and his agent need to be real careful. For lots of these bottom 6 guys, the difference between staying in the NHL and being out is small. It can be about opportunity but also about fit and being with the right team, with the right coaches at the right time. So he may find another team that might give him more but the fit/opportunity might not be as good.

I hope for his sake that if he does sign with someone else, he's not one of those guy who a few years from now is playing somewhere else saying I should have took a little less and stayed with the Oilers.

Those numbers are all nuts. $1.1MM is probably too rich for him. There's no good reason to overpay for a fourth liner with terrible possession statistics.

Hold the line Ken!

What a huge career error for Kostin if he did leave. If he really believes in his abilities, a 1 year deal gives him the chance to pump his stats with McDavid or Drai. Many guys have got nice paydays from just a good month or 2 with them. Just takes an injury, or he himself playing well to get that chance. I think Holland wins this standoff if he just sticks to what is completely reasonable.

If he really has an offer at $1.5MM and his agent is playing hardball, then they’ve got Holland marked out as a sucker. That would be a ridiculous overpayment already.

Missed the 1.5 end of the range. ~1.1M should be plenty.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824617 is a reply to message #824110 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 17:38

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

I talk all the time about how old players are generally a poor choice for general manager. Then I looked at this list today:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NHL_general_ma nagers

Ten of the 32 GMs weren't professional hockey players. Among those teams? The last five Stanley Cup Champions and both sets of finalists from this year and last. Professional management clearly makes a difference. (Caveat - Chris McFarland was the AGM when Colorado won their Cup so they did have a player GM in place at that time).

I suspect that at just under 30%, this is probably the least that the management ranks of the NHL have ever been dominated by former players, and it suggests a trend is slowly developing away from just plunking one of the stars of yesteryear in to the chair.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824625 is a reply to message #824617 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 June 2023 08:51]

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824626 is a reply to message #824625 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 09:05

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

Box scores win hockey drafts for the fans. Fancy stats win championships for the team. I have been converted.

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824628 is a reply to message #824626 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 09:14

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

Box scores win hockey drafts for the fans. Fancy stats win championships for the team. I have been converted.

I see a player who was on a 15 goal pace playing under 10 mins a night. In my opinion there is value in that. You need guys in your bottom 6 who aren't just out there killing time until your main guys are rested. They have to find away to make an impact in limited shifts. He did that. So I have a hard time throwing a guy away like that. But there is a limit to how much I would be willing to pay him given his high shooting percentage and at times mistakes. My limit would be around 1.25 mill at the most. He's still establishing himself as an NHLer but I can't ignore the fact he scored all those goals. I would tell him if you do what you did last year, we can talk extension next year when the cap goes up but they need to see more. Expecting a guy who scored at his pace playing as little mins as he did to take barely above league min, I think is completely ridiculous.

I see value in the box scores, I also see value in the fancy stats. I watched a player in JP for many years put up great fancy stats but he couldn't hit a wide open net. So I think there needs to be a bit of a balance between the 2.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 June 2023 09:19]

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Re: 2023 - The Summer of Ken [message #824630 is a reply to message #824628 ]	Wed, 28 June 2023 09:23

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:14

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 28 June 2023 08:49

Kostin scored 11 goals in 57 games and another 3 in 12 playoff games playing pretty limited minutes. While doing the other things he does .I think it would be foolish to throw bad possession stats at him as a reason you think he's not worth keeping. You give him your number and that's the number. Given the league min will be 775, I don't think giving him a touch over 1 mill is an overpay. But that's just me. I like players that produce actual physical results where you can look at a game sheet and see what the guy did vs combing internet site and spreadsheets to try and figure out what the guy did on the ice.

Box scores win hockey drafts for the fans. Fancy stats win championships for the team. I have been converted.

I see a player who was on a 15 goal pace playing under 10 mins a night. In my opinion there is value in that. You need guys in your bottom 6 who aren't just out there killing time until your main guys are rested. They have to find away to make an impact in limited shifts. He did that. So I have a hard time throwing a guy away like that. But there is a limit to how much I would be willing to pay him given his high shooting percentage and at times mistakes. My limit would be around 1.25 mill at the most. He's still establishing himself as an NHLer but I can't ignore the fact he scored all those goals. I would tell him if you do what you did last year, we can talk extension next year when the cap goes up but they need to see more. Expecting a guy who scored at his pace playing as little mins as he did to take barely above league min, I think is completely ridiculous.

I see value in the box scores, I also see value in the fancy stats. I watched a player in JP for many years put up great fancy stats but he couldn't hit a wide open net. So I think there needs to be a bit of a balance between the 2.

I agree we need more of a balance. 6-5 games are entertaining, but give me a 3-1 victory everyday of the week. If JP could score he'd be a 5M player, but now he's a overpaid 3M skater. Like Kostin, but seeya later if you want to get paid after finally cracking an NHL lineup. His agent might be providing him some bad advice if he wants to remain in the NHL.

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