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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802813 is a reply to message #802687 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0  is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 14:41

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 12:58

Looks too young. Hasn't earned the official's respect yet.


Hasn't worked for McD.. beard.. chipped teeth.. scars.. torn knee ligaments..
NHL refereeing is just bad, they have been allowed/encouraged to "interpret" the rulebook as they see fit in order to manage the games/scores. For a laugh I'd like to see a team of SEL Swede or Liga Finnish refs do an NHL game just to see the difference, I predict the calls would be more consistent, initially a lot of PP's, then eventually the players stop the infractions.. simple cause and effect.


A ref does need to manage the game depending on the score. The simple reason is teams play differently depending on the score. The problem is these refs don't know how to do it anymore. It used to be about keeping emotions in check. If team is getting blown out your likely to call everything to keep it from getting out of hand. If it's close you give a little leeway and don't make the call unless your sure. It didn't mean you put your whistle away and let anything go. I'd say the problem is a lack of game management abilities. It's a light touch. If you do it right no one is sure you did anything at all. NHL reffing quality has fallen so far since the 80s and 90s. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I just honestly think they aren't very good.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2022 12:40]


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802814 is a reply to message #802813 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0  is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

For example this is how aware and observant NHL refs are. Pretty bad when the commentators can figure it out but they can't.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802815 is a reply to message #802813 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7737
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802817 is a reply to message #802815 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7007
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802819 is a reply to message #802817 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7737
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

And if you neuter the refs you also keep costs down. A bunch or hungry and disposable employees who are rightfully afraid to stand out to much... the future is now!



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802820 is a reply to message #802817 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3892
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802821 is a reply to message #802820 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0  is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.

All rules are need to be judged so how do you remove judgement calls. You can't. If you want consistency. Go back to one ref games. Get rid of half the worst. Can't get consistency with two different standards on what's acceptable. I'm sure players would take a few missed calls over not knowing what the standard is. In the end that's consistency. You know what a ref will let go and what he won't.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802822 is a reply to message #802821 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3892
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.

All rules are need to be judged so how do you remove judgement calls. You can't. If you want consistency. Go back to one ref games. Get rid of half the worst. Can't get consistency with two different standards on what's acceptable. I'm sure players would take a few missed calls over not knowing what the standard is. In the end that's consistency. You know what a ref will let go and what he won't.

I don't agree.

If a player has the puck, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and rams his stick into the guys back crumpling him to the ice, that's a crosscheck.

If a player is standing near the goal, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and gives the guy a shot in the back with his stick, that's a cross check. We see that happen all the time. The old school boys call it "Battling".

Now one of them is a harder shot than the other but they are both still crosschecks whether you crumple the guy to the ice or not. The judgement right now is the refs deciding which one to call and which one to let go. They are both still penalties according to the rule. So if you just call the rules as they are written up meaning if you put your stick in the guys back its a penalty regardless of how hard you hit him, you get consistency.

If you trip a guy whether it stops a goal or not, call the trip.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802827 is a reply to message #802822 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 15:03 Go to previous message
Babaganoosh2.0  is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 14:04

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.

All rules are need to be judged so how do you remove judgement calls. You can't. If you want consistency. Go back to one ref games. Get rid of half the worst. Can't get consistency with two different standards on what's acceptable. I'm sure players would take a few missed calls over not knowing what the standard is. In the end that's consistency. You know what a ref will let go and what he won't.

I don't agree.

If a player has the puck, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and rams his stick into the guys back crumpling him to the ice, that's a crosscheck.

If a player is standing near the goal, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and gives the guy a shot in the back with his stick, that's a cross check. We see that happen all the time. The old school boys call it "Battling".

Now one of them is a harder shot than the other but they are both still crosschecks whether you crumple the guy to the ice or not. The judgement right now is the refs deciding which one to call and which one to let go. They are both still penalties according to the rule. So if you just call the rules as they are written up meaning if you put your stick in the guys back its a penalty regardless of how hard you hit him, you get consistency.

If you trip a guy whether it stops a goal or not, call the trip.


Hockey is pussified enough as it is. Your idea would result either in a powerplay fest at best or completely tepid hockey at worse. There used to be a standard and working relationship the players had with the refs. They knew what they could get away with and what would be called on a individual basis. It worked good for a long time. Until the NHL started micro managing it that is.




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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802626 is a reply to message #802568 ]
Tue, 22 March 2022 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
Messages: 856
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

No Cups

I had to watch this via the ESPN Gamecast and the gamethread here because the Avs are only on Altitude, which I learned today is only offered via DirectTV in Colorado. So dumb.

It really is an advantage to be at altitude. Took a schmuck like me 2+ months to finally get acclimatized in my workouts, so when I saw the Avs catch up then blow by in shots on Smith late in the third, I wasn't surprised.



97.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802630 is a reply to message #802626 ]
Tue, 22 March 2022 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3892
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Impressed with the effort. To my shock Smith came out and played well. I didn't think anyone stood out as having a bad game.

Avs got 2 lucky goals which for a team that good, they don't need the help.

Kane is one hell of a player and is really coming on and he drags guys into the fight.

I was very impressed with Yamo. He was the smallest guy on the ice yet he was in the Avs head a lot. He needs to do that all the time. Needs to stop with the stick penalties.

I thought the reffing was a pile of trash. Some phantom calls that gave the Avs a PP then brutal missed calls for the Oilers.

The winning goal was again a tough goal in that Kadri pulled the helmet off of Nurse on purpose which according to the rule he had to go off immediately regardless of where the play was at. No chance in hell he would leave the ice with where the play was in the danger zone but he had no choice. That move by Kadri created an advantage to the Avs and they capitalized. Yes the puck went into Kane's skates so it was again another tough bounce but if Kadri doesn't pull the helmet off of Nurse, it's 2 on 2 not 2 on 1 with the 1 being McD who no offense, I wouldn't choose him to be your 1 and only defender.

I saw this game as they would probably lose so they got the point which is huge. Best part, they got the point with your most suspect goalie in and now you have your starter for Dallas in a game they need. Best case scenario in my books.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802631 is a reply to message #802568 ]
Tue, 22 March 2022 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
Messages: 498
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

Heck of a game last night, proud of them. I thought it was a zero point night so I halfheartedly watched the game.

Kane is fitting on this team. Yammo found a gear after having a fairly lackluster season. Not sure what the future holds for these guys but right now, they have playing really well.

Keith is playing well too. Never panics at all.

Smith... yeah... he is what he is.



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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