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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792459 is a reply to message #792456 ]
Sat, 02 October 2021 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 01 October 2021 21:02

K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 01 October 2021 19:00

I just heard what he had to say on Global sports, I don't think it was that inflammatory. A guy being honest with the media from a perspective different than most other people. Ultimately the choice was still his.....to potentially lose his season and much of his salary or get vaccinated. Anyone thinking he's going to be viewed differently in the room over the remarks that I heard at least should probably think again. I think we should applaud people even when they're late in coming to Jesus, no matter the motive or how grudgingly, rather than continuing to tut tut and piss on them, just my $0.02.

That two cents does count against the cap.

Yup and add 2-3 bucks and it gets some crummy coffee, lol. I've gotta see the guy play as an Oiler for a few games before the whip comes out for him.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792457 is a reply to message #792446 ]
Fri, 01 October 2021 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ  is currently offline MJ
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 01 October 2021 15:56

Keith got the vax. Let’s move on people. He makes us better.


I'm still confused how a 38 year old past-prime d-man taking way too much of our cap-hit makes us better. I hope you're right and pant removal will be in my future. Cheers O-gasm.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792460 is a reply to message #792457 ]
Sat, 02 October 2021 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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MJ wrote on Fri, 01 October 2021 23:24

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 01 October 2021 15:56

Keith got the vax. Let’s move on people. He makes us better.


I'm still confused how a 38 year old past-prime d-man taking way too much of our cap-hit makes us better. I hope you're right and pant removal will be in my future. Cheers O-gasm.


Pant removal won’t even be optional come November, it’s a Oscargasm guarantee.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792462 is a reply to message #792460 ]
Sat, 02 October 2021 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Pant removal won’t even be optional come November, it’s a Oscargasm guarantee. [/quote]

Get a spare pair of pants OG ! icon_nod



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792476 is a reply to message #792462 ]
Sat, 02 October 2021 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 October 2021 16:23

Pant removal won’t even be optional come November, it’s a Oscargasm guarantee.


Get a spare pair of pants OG ! icon_nod [/quote]

I picked up some tear-aways... figure maybe only one half of a pant leg will fly off at a time this way



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792479 is a reply to message #792476 ]
Sat, 02 October 2021 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 02 October 2021 20:40

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 October 2021 16:23


Get a spare pair of pants OG ! icon_nod


I picked up some tear-aways... figure maybe only one half of a pant leg will fly off at a time this way


All will be Well in the Oil-Verse.. positive waves man..
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/e3/00/c3e30038c66ae465649ec93251adee46.gif

[Updated on: Sat, 02 October 2021 22:48]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792488 is a reply to message #792479 ]
Sun, 03 October 2021 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 October 2021 22:45

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 02 October 2021 20:40

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 October 2021 16:23


Get a spare pair of pants OG ! icon_nod


I picked up some tear-aways... figure maybe only one half of a pant leg will fly off at a time this way


All will be Well in the Oil-Verse.. positive waves man..
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/e3/00/c3e30038c66ae465649ec93251adee46.gif


100% agree my man!



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792582 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Wed, 06 October 2021 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hibernia  is currently offline Hibernia
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I've heard enough out of Duncan Keith in the past week that I can say with 100% assurance, I never want to hear him speak again. To think that was brought in for leadership is a farce.

If he doesn't put up on the ice, he is gonna be one of the most hated Oilers of all time - by Oiler fans.



Twitter: @AitchOil

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792586 is a reply to message #792582 ]
Wed, 06 October 2021 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Hibernia wrote on Wed, 06 October 2021 08:44

I've heard enough out of Duncan Keith in the past week that I can say with 100% assurance, I never want to hear him speak again. To think that was brought in for leadership is a farce.

If he doesn't put up on the ice, he is gonna be one of the most hated Oilers of all time - by Oiler fans.

Did he say something new today or is this still about the vaccine?



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792781 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Tue, 12 October 2021 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Ken Holland urging patience for his big off-season acquisitions isn't an article that should need to be written before the first game of the season. I think that's just one more indication about how badly the GM blundered through this summer.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-urges-that-fans-have-patienc e-in-judging-duncan-keith-and-cody-ceci

SIGH. At least we know that noted hockey expert David Staples is happier about both acquisitions now!



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792782 is a reply to message #792781 ]
Tue, 12 October 2021 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ  is currently offline MJ
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I am hugely skeptical of our second pairing but they are ours now! No turning back, no fixing this potential problem even next off-season with the cap management as it is.

“You go to a new team and all of a sudden there are these expectations, and you don’t know anybody,” Holland said of Keith and Ceci. “I think you got to give veterans, I’m not talking you give them 20 or 30 or 40 games, but I think you got to give them training camp and give them five, six, seven games to figure out the team, where they fit, and get comfortable with everything. But I think both of those guys have gotten better and better and I’ve seen them feel more and more comfortable as camp has went on.”

I don't think Holland said anything inaccurate at all here. It is weird messaging from the architect of this pairing to get in ahead of any potential criticisms though!



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792783 is a reply to message #792781 ]
Tue, 12 October 2021 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 15:06

Ken Holland urging patience for his big off-season acquisitions isn't an article that should need to be written before the first game of the season. I think that's just one more indication about how badly the GM blundered through this summer.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-urges-that-fans-have-patienc e-in-judging-duncan-keith-and-cody-ceci

SIGH. At least we know that noted hockey expert David Staples is happier about both acquisitions now!


I mean, he's not wrong. It's a pairing of guys that have never played together on a brand new team. Everything is new and only repetitions are going to fix that. Whether you like it or not, they won't be 100% immediately.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792785 is a reply to message #792783 ]
Tue, 12 October 2021 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 14:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 15:06

Ken Holland urging patience for his big off-season acquisitions isn't an article that should need to be written before the first game of the season. I think that's just one more indication about how badly the GM blundered through this summer.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-urges-that-fans-have-patienc e-in-judging-duncan-keith-and-cody-ceci

SIGH. At least we know that noted hockey expert David Staples is happier about both acquisitions now!


I mean, he's not wrong. It's a pairing of guys that have never played together on a brand new team. Everything is new and only repetitions are going to fix that. Whether you like it or not, they won't be 100% immediately.


True. It's Duncan Keith's 39 year old season that I really expect him to shine!



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18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792787 is a reply to message #792783 ]
Tue, 12 October 2021 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 15:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 15:06

Ken Holland urging patience for his big off-season acquisitions isn't an article that should need to be written before the first game of the season. I think that's just one more indication about how badly the GM blundered through this summer.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-urges-that-fans-have-patienc e-in-judging-duncan-keith-and-cody-ceci

SIGH. At least we know that noted hockey expert David Staples is happier about both acquisitions now!


I mean, he's not wrong. It's a pairing of guys that have never played together on a brand new team. Everything is new and only repetitions are going to fix that. Whether you like it or not, they won't be 100% immediately.


Can you recall a GM coming to the defence of a player he just acquired prior to the player suiting up in a single regular season game before?

Honestly, I think the Oilers pay way too much attention to what we say. They need to either buy in and start making changes in the way they do business - actually using analytics perhaps - or they need to just shut off twitter and stop paying attention to online criticism of the team and their archaic methods. The amount of hand-wringing from Holland in the last year about what Joe Fan is saying online is pretty incredible. This is an organization who has all the media guys in their back pocket, and yet they still are so sensitive to any critique from any corner, that it shows just how fragile their self-confidence is.

That self-confidence piece scares me too. I think Holland is likely to take bigger bets to try to prove the doubters wrong - it's a recipe for disaster.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792789 is a reply to message #792781 ]
Tue, 12 October 2021 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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Adam wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 15:06

Ken Holland urging patience for his big off-season acquisitions isn't an article that should need to be written before the first game of the season. I think that's just one more indication about how badly the GM blundered through this summer.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-urges-that-fans-have-patienc e-in-judging-duncan-keith-and-cody-ceci

SIGH. At least we know that noted hockey expert David Staples is happier about both acquisitions now!


Duncan Keith looked fine in every preseason game I watched. Ceci not as much.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #792793 is a reply to message #792789 ]
Tue, 12 October 2021 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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K.McC#24 wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 17:45

Adam wrote on Tue, 12 October 2021 15:06

Ken Holland urging patience for his big off-season acquisitions isn't an article that should need to be written before the first game of the season. I think that's just one more indication about how badly the GM blundered through this summer.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-urges-that-fans-have-patienc e-in-judging-duncan-keith-and-cody-ceci

SIGH. At least we know that noted hockey expert David Staples is happier about both acquisitions now!


Duncan Keith looked fine in every preseason game I watched. Ceci not as much.


But fine isn’t good enough! Holland couldn’t get any cap retention on him so he has to look great. If he doesn’t look like a 5.5M dman then he’s a failure! I don’t care that he’s never played with his new d partner who also is new to the team. They cost the team nearly 9M combined so they better be more than fine. No missed assignments. No errant passes. No brain farts. They better be perfect. - 98% of Oilers fans

Ahem, I’m jacked for this pair, they’ll be a good compliment to the Nurse-Barrie pair. Just hope they roll McDrai on their own lines instead of together.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793665 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Thu, 28 October 2021 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Quote:

Dennis King
@DKingBH

"Kenny" is one of the most plugged-in general managers in the game but he somehow didn't know that Keith was an anti-vaxxer nutcase Or that something had happened in Chicago;)


An interesting point here. Not only did Keith cost way more than he should have, given the 'Hawks' deep desire to free up cap space and his advanced age and relatively poor stats, but he's come with an awful lot of baggage.

It kind of puts the lie to bringing him in for leadership...



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793666 is a reply to message #793665 ]
Thu, 28 October 2021 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 28 October 2021 16:40

Quote:

Dennis King
@DKingBH

"Kenny" is one of the most plugged-in general managers in the game but he somehow didn't know that Keith was an anti-vaxxer nutcase Or that something had happened in Chicago;)


An interesting point here. Not only did Keith cost way more than he should have, given the 'Hawks' deep desire to free up cap space and his advanced age and relatively poor stats, but he's come with an awful lot of baggage.

It kind of puts the lie to bringing him in for leadership...


3 cups. Conn Smythe. Norris. Olympic gold.

These are the only things that matter around these parts.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793671 is a reply to message #793666 ]
Thu, 28 October 2021 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 28 October 2021 16:59

Adam wrote on Thu, 28 October 2021 16:40

Quote:

Dennis King
@DKingBH

"Kenny" is one of the most plugged-in general managers in the game but he somehow didn't know that Keith was an anti-vaxxer nutcase Or that something had happened in Chicago;)


An interesting point here. Not only did Keith cost way more than he should have, given the 'Hawks' deep desire to free up cap space and his advanced age and relatively poor stats, but he's come with an awful lot of baggage.

It kind of puts the lie to bringing him in for leadership...


3 cups. Conn Smythe. Norris. Olympic gold.

These are the only things that matter around these parts.


They just wanted to play hockey. Didnt happen to them. They were just chasing a cup. They. Just. Wanted. To. Play. Hockey. That’s what Captain serious claimed last night...

You know who else wanted to play hockey? Kyle Beach. Black Ace 1. Sheldon Kennedy. Every other kid that has been abused by a sick monster in a position of perceived power.

Screw Jonathan Toews. Screw Patrick Kane. Screw Duncan Keith.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793672 is a reply to message #793671 ]
Thu, 28 October 2021 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slim Jim Phantom Call  is currently offline Slim Jim Phantom Call
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Keith cannot remain an Oiler. Get that self entitled $#&&@$ off this team.


In fairness to Hall, I've wanted to throw a waterbottle at Eakins all season.
~nullterm 03/22/2014

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793674 is a reply to message #793672 ]
Fri, 29 October 2021 07:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
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Yeah - I'm over all three. I don't want Keith on this team.


97.

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793691 is a reply to message #793674 ]
Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Suomalainen wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 07:14

Yeah - I'm over all three. I don't want Keith on this team.


I against the trade for Duncan Keith. I'm not at all thrilled about all the drama he's brought to the team since his acquisition. I think he has lied a couple times now about what his knowledge was of anything around the incidents. I think he's shown himself to be a pretty poor leader.

However, I don't think he's done anything to deserve to be retired immediately, and I won't be able to bring myself to boo him over this. If it came out that he was one of those taunting Beach, then I'd change my tune there, but I haven't heard any report of that yet.

I suspect that there's a lot of factors in the denials from active players (Ladd, like Keith & Kane, is suggesting that he had zero idea that anything had ever happened until just recently). Some of those factors include:
- feeling that they were protecting Bowman, Quenneville, etc. by keeping silent.
- I expect that there's some sense of shame or guilt that they didn't do more - even though as players there was little they could do - especially if they didn't know during that playoffs.
- They may, like the mental skills coach, have put some blame on the victim. That isn't fair, but I think there's a tendency to think that a guy who is 6'3 and over 200 lbs should be able to fend off just about anyone. Again - I'm not condoning that view, but I believe it is one people will have held here and one of the reasons he ends up getting mocked. Some will think he may have been a willing participant somehow.
- Once they've made the initial denials, they may feel they're going to get roasted worse for changing tune now.

I think that they're getting bad advice, and they should just come clean. I understand that for some people, the fact they aren't makes them suspect that they were part of the bully crew, but we just don't know that and until we do, I'm not pulling out the tar and feather for those four players. I actually feel a bit sorry for them - they are taking the brunt of this because they have to face the media, but there's a large number of their teammates who are retired who aren't answering questions at all. No one has heard from Hossa, Seabrook, Niemi, Byfuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, Sharp or many others. We haven't head from the assistant coaches Torchetti or Haviland either. These people are all probably getting texts from media guys, but they just don't answer and it isn't a story. That's not an option for these four and so here we are.

I'd prefer Duncan Keith wasn't an Oiler right now, but he is, and none of the facts to this point justify kicking him off the team over - even if he's lying and showing poor judgement and weak leadership.



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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks #FireTheGretzkys #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793695 is a reply to message #793691 ]
Fri, 29 October 2021 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55



No one has heard from Hossa, Seabrook, Niemi, Byfuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, Sharp or many others.




Safe to assume Hossa's rash is acting up right now and he is unable to take calls.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793700 is a reply to message #793691 ]
Sat, 30 October 2021 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55

Suomalainen wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 07:14

Yeah - I'm over all three. I don't want Keith on this team.


I against the trade for Duncan Keith. I'm not at all thrilled about all the drama he's brought to the team since his acquisition. I think he has lied a couple times now about what his knowledge was of anything around the incidents. I think he's shown himself to be a pretty poor leader.

However, I don't think he's done anything to deserve to be retired immediately, and I won't be able to bring myself to boo him over this. If it came out that he was one of those taunting Beach, then I'd change my tune there, but I haven't heard any report of that yet.

I suspect that there's a lot of factors in the denials from active players (Ladd, like Keith & Kane, is suggesting that he had zero idea that anything had ever happened until just recently). Some of those factors include:
- feeling that they were protecting Bowman, Quenneville, etc. by keeping silent.
- I expect that there's some sense of shame or guilt that they didn't do more - even though as players there was little they could do - especially if they didn't know during that playoffs.
- They may, like the mental skills coach, have put some blame on the victim. That isn't fair, but I think there's a tendency to think that a guy who is 6'3 and over 200 lbs should be able to fend off just about anyone. Again - I'm not condoning that view, but I believe it is one people will have held here and one of the reasons he ends up getting mocked. Some will think he may have been a willing participant somehow.
- Once they've made the initial denials, they may feel they're going to get roasted worse for changing tune now.

I think that they're getting bad advice, and they should just come clean. I understand that for some people, the fact they aren't makes them suspect that they were part of the bully crew, but we just don't know that and until we do, I'm not pulling out the tar and feather for those four players. I actually feel a bit sorry for them - they are taking the brunt of this because they have to face the media, but there's a large number of their teammates who are retired who aren't answering questions at all. No one has heard from Hossa, Seabrook, Niemi, Byfuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, Sharp or many others. We haven't head from the assistant coaches Torchetti or Haviland either. These people are all probably getting texts from media guys, but they just don't answer and it isn't a story. That's not an option for these four and so here we are.

I'd prefer Duncan Keith wasn't an Oiler right now, but he is, and none of the facts to this point justify kicking him off the team over - even if he's lying and showing poor judgement and weak leadership.


Even giving people the benefit of the doubt in what you guess they’re thinking is victim blaming. It really does not matter how it went down, it happened. All of the core Hawks players still playing needed to choose their words better. Their allegiances can be done in private. Terrible optics and it distracts from the actual perpetrator.

Blame the predator. Make no excuses for the management team. If you were a part of the school yard bully group, grow up, own it and fade away with your millions of dollars.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793712 is a reply to message #793700 ]
Sat, 30 October 2021 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Sat, 30 October 2021 00:32

Adam wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55

Suomalainen wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 07:14

Yeah - I'm over all three. I don't want Keith on this team.


I against the trade for Duncan Keith. I'm not at all thrilled about all the drama he's brought to the team since his acquisition. I think he has lied a couple times now about what his knowledge was of anything around the incidents. I think he's shown himself to be a pretty poor leader.

However, I don't think he's done anything to deserve to be retired immediately, and I won't be able to bring myself to boo him over this. If it came out that he was one of those taunting Beach, then I'd change my tune there, but I haven't heard any report of that yet.

I suspect that there's a lot of factors in the denials from active players (Ladd, like Keith & Kane, is suggesting that he had zero idea that anything had ever happened until just recently). Some of those factors include:
- feeling that they were protecting Bowman, Quenneville, etc. by keeping silent.
- I expect that there's some sense of shame or guilt that they didn't do more - even though as players there was little they could do - especially if they didn't know during that playoffs.
- They may, like the mental skills coach, have put some blame on the victim. That isn't fair, but I think there's a tendency to think that a guy who is 6'3 and over 200 lbs should be able to fend off just about anyone. Again - I'm not condoning that view, but I believe it is one people will have held here and one of the reasons he ends up getting mocked. Some will think he may have been a willing participant somehow.
- Once they've made the initial denials, they may feel they're going to get roasted worse for changing tune now.

I think that they're getting bad advice, and they should just come clean. I understand that for some people, the fact they aren't makes them suspect that they were part of the bully crew, but we just don't know that and until we do, I'm not pulling out the tar and feather for those four players. I actually feel a bit sorry for them - they are taking the brunt of this because they have to face the media, but there's a large number of their teammates who are retired who aren't answering questions at all. No one has heard from Hossa, Seabrook, Niemi, Byfuglien, Versteeg, Bolland, Sharp or many others. We haven't head from the assistant coaches Torchetti or Haviland either. These people are all probably getting texts from media guys, but they just don't answer and it isn't a story. That's not an option for these four and so here we are.

I'd prefer Duncan Keith wasn't an Oiler right now, but he is, and none of the facts to this point justify kicking him off the team over - even if he's lying and showing poor judgement and weak leadership.


Even giving people the benefit of the doubt in what you guess they’re thinking is victim blaming. It really does not matter how it went down, it happened. All of the core Hawks players still playing needed to choose their words better. Their allegiances can be done in private. Terrible optics and it distracts from the actual perpetrator.

Blame the predator. Make no excuses for the management team. If you were a part of the school yard bully group, grow up, own it and fade away with your millions of dollars.



I'm one hundred percent on board that all 4 of those guys need to choose their words and their message better. I think their agents and their teams failed, because they should have been given PR support to make sure that the message was communicated well. Things like talking about how important Stan Bowman was for their careers should have been cautioned against before they ever got out in front of a microphone. Honestly, I would have considered a taped message that anticipated all the major questions, as it's a really tough topic to respond to on the spot without saying anything wrong. Some would criticize the taped message for sure - but I'd rather be criticized for the way I communicated the message than for saying the wrong things.

That said, I don't think players should face the end of their career for saying the wrong things in a stressful situation. I don't even think they should be shown the door for lying about their knowledge. It impacts my opinion of those players for sure - but I don't need to see them banished over that. At the end of the day, they aren't the perpetrator.

As I said earlier, I think the Oilers rely on friendly media so that they don't have to hire media flaks...they probably should invest in a good one though. Imagine how many times that person could have saved the team from themselves if they just told him or her what they were planning to say before they went out and faced the media! I think the strategy on Keith was flawed from the beginning. The Oilers were in a hurry to get it over with and put him in front of the cameras so they could move on - and didn't consider that there were still possibly dominos to fall. His statements about not just not knowing but also not even hearing any rumours was completely unbelievable as soon as he said it, but then when Beach talks that night, it just makes Keith look terrible.

I do wonder if the team didn't set up that Principe/Spector video - Principe is basically an Oilers employee and Spector will usually carry water - because it's just such a bizarre take - especially since Keith never gave any inclination that had he known, he'd do anything.

All that said, this shouldn't end Duncan Keith's career, or call down boos any time he touches the puck. It should end discussion about his amazing leadership skills though...



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793734 is a reply to message #793691 ]
Sat, 30 October 2021 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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Adam wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55

but I think there's a tendency to think that a guy who is 6'3 and over 200 lbs should be able to fend off just about anyone. Again - I'm not condoning that view, but I believe it is one people will have held here and one of the reasons he ends up getting mocked.




I dont think this can be discounted. It's old man-type thinking....how the hell can a grown manly man be put in that position? Even the Graham James business, I have to admit having to get my head around those boys being in a position to be victimized....until hearing Kennedy's and later Fleury's horrible stories, and realizing how that can happen.

Only 11 years has passed, but as far as the leadership group of that 2010 hockey team goes, I think the oldest was around 25, and they were leaders on the ice and in the room of other people with not much life experience. Not making excuses, and you would hope that if they did know, that as human beings a line might be drawn at some point....but then again how many have been in those shoes? I haven't. Clearly the job description of a team Captain and assistants is still evolving.

Coaches and executive, on the other hand, are presumably trained leaders, and we see people that are mature trained leaders of all types be derelict in their duties all the time, for whatever motive.

I wish that those young players had stepped up, but I dont think I'm going to take a dump on them for not doing it. They probably are feeling they failed (maybe not Kane), and they did. The big failures were higher up in the organization, the league, and the PA in my opinion.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793738 is a reply to message #793734 ]
Sat, 30 October 2021 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 30 October 2021 21:12

Adam wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55

but I think there's a tendency to think that a guy who is 6'3 and over 200 lbs should be able to fend off just about anyone. Again - I'm not condoning that view, but I believe it is one people will have held here and one of the reasons he ends up getting mocked.




I dont think this can be discounted. It's old man-type thinking....how the hell can a grown manly man be put in that position? Even the Graham James business, I have to admit having to get my head around those boys being in a position to be victimized....until hearing Kennedy's and later Fleury's horrible stories, and realizing how that can happen.

Only 11 years has passed, but as far as the leadership group of that 2010 hockey team goes, I think the oldest was around 25, and they were leaders on the ice and in the room of other people with not much life experience. Not making excuses, and you would hope that if they did know, that as human beings a line might be drawn at some point....but then again how many have been in those shoes? I haven't. Clearly the job description of a team Captain and assistants is still evolving.

Coaches and executive, on the other hand, are presumably trained leaders, and we see people that are mature trained leaders of all types be derelict in their duties all the time, for whatever motive.

I wish that those young players had stepped up, but I dont think I'm going to take a dump on them for not doing it. They probably are feeling they failed (maybe not Kane), and they did. The big failures were higher up in the organization, the league, and the PA in my opinion.


Apparently assistant GMs are absolved of any responsibility.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793742 is a reply to message #793738 ]
Sat, 30 October 2021 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 30 October 2021 21:42

K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 30 October 2021 21:12

Adam wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55

but I think there's a tendency to think that a guy who is 6'3 and over 200 lbs should be able to fend off just about anyone. Again - I'm not condoning that view, but I believe it is one people will have held here and one of the reasons he ends up getting mocked.




I dont think this can be discounted. It's old man-type thinking....how the hell can a grown manly man be put in that position? Even the Graham James business, I have to admit having to get my head around those boys being in a position to be victimized....until hearing Kennedy's and later Fleury's horrible stories, and realizing how that can happen.

Only 11 years has passed, but as far as the leadership group of that 2010 hockey team goes, I think the oldest was around 25, and they were leaders on the ice and in the room of other people with not much life experience. Not making excuses, and you would hope that if they did know, that as human beings a line might be drawn at some point....but then again how many have been in those shoes? I haven't. Clearly the job description of a team Captain and assistants is still evolving.

Coaches and executive, on the other hand, are presumably trained leaders, and we see people that are mature trained leaders of all types be derelict in their duties all the time, for whatever motive.

I wish that those young players had stepped up, but I dont think I'm going to take a dump on them for not doing it. They probably are feeling they failed (maybe not Kane), and they did. The big failures were higher up in the organization, the league, and the PA in my opinion.


Apparently assistant GMs are absolved of any responsibility.


Yeah I don't know how that works tbh.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793761 is a reply to message #793734 ]
Sun, 31 October 2021 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 30 October 2021 21:12

Adam wrote on Fri, 29 October 2021 14:55

but I think there's a tendency to think that a guy who is 6'3 and over 200 lbs should be able to fend off just about anyone. Again - I'm not condoning that view, but I believe it is one people will have held here and one of the reasons he ends up getting mocked.




I dont think this can be discounted. It's old man-type thinking....how the hell can a grown manly man be put in that position? Even the Graham James business, I have to admit having to get my head around those boys being in a position to be victimized....until hearing Kennedy's and later Fleury's horrible stories, and realizing how that can happen.

Only 11 years has passed, but as far as the leadership group of that 2010 hockey team goes, I think the oldest was around 25, and they were leaders on the ice and in the room of other people with not much life experience. Not making excuses, and you would hope that if they did know, that as human beings a line might be drawn at some point....but then again how many have been in those shoes? I haven't. Clearly the job description of a team Captain and assistants is still evolving.

Coaches and executive, on the other hand, are presumably trained leaders, and we see people that are mature trained leaders of all types be derelict in their duties all the time, for whatever motive.

I wish that those young players had stepped up, but I dont think I'm going to take a dump on them for not doing it. They probably are feeling they failed (maybe not Kane), and they did. The big failures were higher up in the organization, the league, and the PA in my opinion.


I never really considered their age. Although it’s the right thing to do at any age is to stand up for the right thing and have a voice, these are still young adults put in to very difficult, public positions with very little guidance. I would have been vilified at that age too.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793763 is a reply to message #793761 ]
Sun, 31 October 2021 08:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
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inverno76 wrote on Sun, 31 October 2021 00:13



I never really considered their age. Although it’s the right thing to do at any age is to stand up for the right thing and have a voice, these are still young adults put in to very difficult, public positions with very little guidance. I would have been vilified at that age too.

The age argument is stupid. They were all in their mid-late 30’s when this story came out 6 months ago and prayed it would be swept under the rug. This is just who they are.

When I was in my mid-twenties, I knew bullying victims of sexual assault was bad. I’m sure we all did too because we didn’t live in a bubble of stupidity. The attempts to find excuses for this toxic culture are getting ridiculous.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793764 is a reply to message #793763 ]
Sun, 31 October 2021 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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JPro wrote on Sun, 31 October 2021 08:13

inverno76 wrote on Sun, 31 October 2021 00:13



I never really considered their age. Although it’s the right thing to do at any age is to stand up for the right thing and have a voice, these are still young adults put in to very difficult, public positions with very little guidance. I would have been vilified at that age too.

The age argument is stupid. They were all in their mid-late 30’s when this story came out 6 months ago and prayed it would be swept under the rug. This is just who they are.

When I was in my mid-twenties, I knew bullying victims of sexual assault was bad. I’m sure we all did too because we didn’t live in a bubble of stupidity. The attempts to find excuses for this toxic culture are getting ridiculous.


Thank you for bringing this back on point. You are correct.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793765 is a reply to message #793763 ]
Sun, 31 October 2021 11:05 Go to previous message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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JPro wrote on Sun, 31 October 2021 08:13

inverno76 wrote on Sun, 31 October 2021 00:13



I never really considered their age. Although it’s the right thing to do at any age is to stand up for the right thing and have a voice, these are still young adults put in to very difficult, public positions with very little guidance. I would have been vilified at that age too.

The age argument is stupid. They were all in their mid-late 30’s when this story came out 6 months ago and prayed it would be swept under the rug. This is just who they are.

When I was in my mid-twenties, I knew bullying victims of sexual assault was bad. I’m sure we all did too because we didn’t live in a bubble of stupidity. The attempts to find excuses for this toxic culture are getting ridiculous.


It's not an excuse, as stated, I'm just trying to figure out 'why'. Everyone knows its wrong, given recent revelations, and can armchair quarterback what went down....and what wasn't done about it. If you truly believe there is/was no masculine culture at play that can't comprehend and will actually downplay that a young athletic man can be sexually assaulted by another man, you're mistaken. This is at the root of the 'toxic culture', I think. Additionally, it you think that sexual assaults on athletic men or men in general are viewed the same in the real world by peers as those on women, and are dealt with the same, then you don't dwell in the real world. Its evolving away from that reality starting with Sheldon Kennedy and up to Kyle Beach, but society is only getting to the point of believing a woman when she makes allegations, for Pete's sake....let alone men. You can find it ridiculous and it certainly seems so, but I think it helps to review the mindset that didn't leap to Kyle Beach's defense at several levels at any point on the timeline You have to come to be aware and understand that mindset to change it, not support it but to understand it in terms of why. If that's still 'stupid', then I can't help you.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793688 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Fri, 29 October 2021 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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If Chevy got off, I don't see how any player will end up taking a hit. I think we're gonna be stuck with Keith for the 2 years. Media guys already trying to rationalize away everything on his behalf.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793689 is a reply to message #793688 ]
Fri, 29 October 2021 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Here is a broader question not just for Keith but for professional athletes. Do most professional athletes even given a second thought to anything that happens unless it impacts them directly?

How many times have we heard of some pro athlete beating up his wife or girlfriend and do any of this teammates get up in arms about it and report him to the cops? I can't think of a situation where I heard of teammates being the ones to do something to stop it. In my opinion, and this isn't me saying they are all terrible people, it sure seems like these pro athletes are so focused on their own performance, only focused about things that only impact them or their family or impact the team performance, that anything else they don't really give a second thought too.

I am not saying it's right and in my opinion is something that needs to change but these athletes don't seem to say a thing about anything that doesn't involve them unless they are absolutely are forced too.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #793690 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Fri, 29 October 2021 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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This whole thing is ugly.

Nothing happens to Keith. Nothing at all. Nothing happened to Chevy, only, Blackhawks ownership, Q and Bowman has taken the direct hits.

Sad but true.



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