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 Speculation » Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MMPages (2): [ «  <  1  2]
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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766850 is a reply to message #766846 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 09:53

I hope you’re right. I don’t think you are. I think Nurse is what he is. 350 games.

The Petry comparison is a poor example. Petry had played 295 games for the Oil, but was never given the opportunity that Nurse has had. Petry had a career high 25 point season with the team. He looked good, but MacT had a hate on for him.

Nurse has worked his way up through the line up. He’s developed into a solid middle pair dman who wants 7M + long term. Hard pass from me. While Petrt had room to grow because of deployment, Nurse has had more opportunity and I think we have seen his potential.

He’s good, but his perceived value to other teams and his contract wants make me want to show him the door. He’s Jacob Trouba lite.

**disclaimer** I don’t hate Nurse. I don’t like what he is getting paid. I don’t like that he will want a raise. **disclaimer**

You are entitled to your opinion about my comparison but I don't see how you can say Petry wasn't given the opportunity like Nurse. He played 22:51 his first ever NHL game and if you scroll though the game logs and look at his time on ice for his time as an Oiler, he played most games well over 20 mins a night. That's putting a very young, inexperience dman in a top 4 role immediately just like Nurse. His 12th EVER NHL game he played over 27 mins. I don't know whatelse you think a team didn't give Petry in way of opportunity when they are playing a rookie that much immediately. In my opinion due to lack of quality dmen, they gave Petry too many mins too early just like they did Nurse.

But I guess we will never agree on this so I will let it go. I don't think even you are saying Nurse is a bad player, he's a good player he's just not an elite player you think he should be. We won't ever agree on this because if you think trading an already pretty darn good 25 yr old who is just moving into his prime years is the road to success for the Oilers, we won't ever agree on anything. The Oilers have cut bait on players who were pretty good players just heading into their primes over and over again and it's blew up in their face pretty much every time.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766849 is a reply to message #766841 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 08:50


What you get back for Larsson won’t replace the hole. He’s a 4/5 guy who plays top pair in Edmonton. You can’t push Bouchard up that fast and Bear shouldn’t be handed that much responsibility yet either.

Benning won’t get a great return. Our left side is deeper. Holland’s choices are limited. If he wants to make a significant deal it’s one of Klefbom or Nurse. I prefer Nurse due to the cost certainty of Klefbom and Oscargasm’s contributions to OilFans.


A few thoughts here:

- while the plan shouldn't be to push Bouchard up fast, the hope should be that he takes it. If he's a first pairing defenceman, he's not going to take a long time to get there now. He's had a year of pro hockey under his belt. The best defenceman don't take until they're 25 to emerge as top players. Bouchard will be the same age Makar was at the start of last season, and he's older than Quinn Hughes. He's going to catch up quickly at the NHL level if he's got the talent to get there. If he doesn't, that's okay - there's room for 2nd and 3rd pairing guys with big shots, but better to understand that sooner than later.
- If I'm in Holland's chair, I'm not moving any of Nurse, Klefbom, Larsson or Benning in a hurry and only if there's an upgrade to be had there. I don't think we have a ton of cap room for additions, there's good prospects pushing up behind so while I hope we can have Bouchard take a top six (and hopefully top-two) role, I would want to have a back-up plan that has him in the AHL and the team deep enough to handle that. If this is your defence:
Klefbom Larsson
Nurse Bear
Jones Benning

That's not a bad top-six. You can be successful in the league with a decent defence corps, so long as you get good goaltending and good scoring. We have the guns up front, so just add a goalie and you can live with that. If Bouchard can take a step and bump Benning or Larsson out, then that's great news and frees up something. If he can't then we still have a capable group. Jones in and Russell out is a real positive. Bear and Jones have learned a lot from this year and both seem to have a lot of up arrows.

I'm just not convinced that right now you get better through a deal involving Nurse or Klefbom. With Larsson, there's improvement available, but if you bring in an OEL at $8MM, and then in 6-12 months Bouchard pushes him aside as the #1RD, then that's potentially an immovable contract and an awful lot to pay a guy who's not the top guy. It may make signing others challenging as those contracts come up, and it means Bear is either your #3RD or he is trade bait. If we were getting Cale Makar and not OEL, I'm more comfortable with it because he's got lots of years ahead of him as a top pairing defenceman and he's harder to push out of that spot - but that's not likely to happen.

What I might be willing to look at would be moving Larsson if I could get Tyson Barrie to sign a short deal.

I'm already on record with Benning. I'm fine with him starting the season on the bench to give Bouchard a chance, with the understanding that if Bouchard fails we haven't reduced our defence. I'm less comfortable trading him away and saying it's hell or high water for Bouchard.

Ultimately I still believe goalie is the most important question to address, and then a top six winger. If there's room after those are done then tweak with the defence, but I just don't see it as a top priority.




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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766856 is a reply to message #766849 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 10:30

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 08:50


What you get back for Larsson won’t replace the hole. He’s a 4/5 guy who plays top pair in Edmonton. You can’t push Bouchard up that fast and Bear shouldn’t be handed that much responsibility yet either.

Benning won’t get a great return. Our left side is deeper. Holland’s choices are limited. If he wants to make a significant deal it’s one of Klefbom or Nurse. I prefer Nurse due to the cost certainty of Klefbom and Oscargasm’s contributions to OilFans.


A few thoughts here:

- while the plan shouldn't be to push Bouchard up fast, the hope should be that he takes it. If he's a first pairing defenceman, he's not going to take a long time to get there now. He's had a year of pro hockey under his belt. The best defenceman don't take until they're 25 to emerge as top players. Bouchard will be the same age Makar was at the start of last season, and he's older than Quinn Hughes. He's going to catch up quickly at the NHL level if he's got the talent to get there. If he doesn't, that's okay - there's room for 2nd and 3rd pairing guys with big shots, but better to understand that sooner than later.
- If I'm in Holland's chair, I'm not moving any of Nurse, Klefbom, Larsson or Benning in a hurry and only if there's an upgrade to be had there. I don't think we have a ton of cap room for additions, there's good prospects pushing up behind so while I hope we can have Bouchard take a top six (and hopefully top-two) role, I would want to have a back-up plan that has him in the AHL and the team deep enough to handle that. If this is your defence:
Klefbom Larsson
Nurse Bear
Jones Benning

That's not a bad top-six. You can be successful in the league with a decent defence corps, so long as you get good goaltending and good scoring. We have the guns up front, so just add a goalie and you can live with that. If Bouchard can take a step and bump Benning or Larsson out, then that's great news and frees up something. If he can't then we still have a capable group. Jones in and Russell out is a real positive. Bear and Jones have learned a lot from this year and both seem to have a lot of up arrows.

I'm just not convinced that right now you get better through a deal involving Nurse or Klefbom. With Larsson, there's improvement available, but if you bring in an OEL at $8MM, and then in 6-12 months Bouchard pushes him aside as the #1RD, then that's potentially an immovable contract and an awful lot to pay a guy who's not the top guy. It may make signing others challenging as those contracts come up, and it means Bear is either your #3RD or he is trade bait. If we were getting Cale Makar and not OEL, I'm more comfortable with it because he's got lots of years ahead of him as a top pairing defenceman and he's harder to push out of that spot - but that's not likely to happen.

What I might be willing to look at would be moving Larsson if I could get Tyson Barrie to sign a short deal.

I'm already on record with Benning. I'm fine with him starting the season on the bench to give Bouchard a chance, with the understanding that if Bouchard fails we haven't reduced our defence. I'm less comfortable trading him away and saying it's hell or high water for Bouchard.

Ultimately I still believe goalie is the most important question to address, and then a top six winger. If there's room after those are done then tweak with the defence, but I just don't see it as a top priority.



We don't agree on things very often but I agree with a lot of what you said. Here's the kicker, OEL isn't even a right shot, he's a left. So the Oilers would be trading away one of Klefbom or Nurse, to please inverno, Nurse to bring on a much older, debatable how much better left shot dman who makes WAY more money. I don't see how that makes any sense. I know Nurse's contract could be a concern. I have my doubts his next deal will be that much more than what he makes now. The cap will be flat for at least a couple of years, I could see it being more. In 2 years, I'd hope the Oilers are a legit cup favorite and will Nurse really want to leave his buddies - Leon and McDavid - to go chase an extra mill maybe because usually the teams who have cap space to overpay for a guy like him are lousy and need guys. Plus guys get paid for points. Nurse scores pretty much all of his 30-35 pts 5 on 5. He barely plays PP now and it's not like Klefbom is an elite PP guy. Nurse isn't getting extra PP time to inflate his numbers and I doubt OEL would get a lot of PP time if Bouchard is here because being a PP QB is his calling card and he's a right shot AND the Oiles best players are all lefties. So it makes no sense not to have a right shot, PP QB, point producing dman sitting on the bench in favor of OEL, Nurse or Klefbom. So I don't see Nurse's points spiking so in his next contract I really doubt he will be getting OEL money.

I would also go along with your Barrie idea. A Western Canadian guy coming off a down year in the biggest hockey market in the league. Everyone in T.O pissed all over him so his stock would drop. The cap is flat so he won't get as much money. I'd be offering him a 2 yr deal at 4 something, tell him he will be on the #1 PP unit. The Oilers had the best PP in decades, I don't think it will be like it was this year but I don't see it dropping off that much. So he'd have the change to pad his points on a PP with McDavid and Leon plus his 5 on 5 scoring. So in 2 years when maybe the cap is up, he could have 2 really good point years to get him that last contract to finish off his career. Teams pay for points and he will be 31 so its not like he will be retirement age. In the mean time you have cover for Bouchard so in 2 years, hopefully he is kicking the door down and if you have to drop down Barrie to the 3rd pair in his last year, oh well. You'd have Bouchard making not a lot to balance it out.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766858 is a reply to message #766856 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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“To please inverno”? I wish I had some kind of pull, but thanks for the props. You’re passive aggressiveness game is strong.

I do believe the blue line needs a shake up. I brought OEL because he’s a hot topic, but in reality it’s someone on a shorter deal at a cheaper price point, RH’d preference.

Do we need to trade Nurse? No, but he’d be the first guy I’d move out if I was looking to shake up the roster. We are not a simple move away from being a Cup contender. Holland will be taking almost all phone calls on any player. Despite the flat cap, Nurse will be seeking OEL money on a long term deal. Krug is doing this in Boston. Different dman, but I’ll go back to Trouba who is a bit more similar. 8M over 7. I think the flat cap hurts older UFA’s. Young guys will get paid, they just won’t have as many suitors.

To be fair. Klefbom’s name has come up on Stauffer’s show. He’s the mouthpiece of the organization. Where there is smoke there is fire.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 September 2020 11:09]


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766883 is a reply to message #766858 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 11:08

“To please inverno”? I wish I had some kind of pull, but thanks for the props. You’re passive aggressiveness game is strong.

I do believe the blue line needs a shake up. I brought OEL because he’s a hot topic, but in reality it’s someone on a shorter deal at a cheaper price point, RH’d preference.

Do we need to trade Nurse? No, but he’d be the first guy I’d move out if I was looking to shake up the roster. We are not a simple move away from being a Cup contender. Holland will be taking almost all phone calls on any player. Despite the flat cap, Nurse will be seeking OEL money on a long term deal. Krug is doing this in Boston. Different dman, but I’ll go back to Trouba who is a bit more similar. 8M over 7. I think the flat cap hurts older UFA’s. Young guys will get paid, they just won’t have as many suitors.

To be fair. Klefbom’s name has come up on Stauffer’s show. He’s the mouthpiece of the organization. Where there is smoke there is fire.

I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive what so ever. Sorry if it came off that way.

When it comes to contracts, like I said teams pay for points. I don't see Nurse scoring more than the 30-35 he gets. Maybe he gets to 40 but he won't get enough PP time to score more.

John Carlson got 8 mill. He's put up 68, 70 and 75 in 69 games. He's also a right shot and right shots are worth more.
Trouba. There isn't a single hockey person who thinks the Trouba contract isn't a gross overpay. That being said, he scored 50 pts his last year with the Jets and he's a right shot.

Krug can ask for 8 mill all he wants, I doubt he gets it in this economic climate. That being said, he's scored:
16-17 - 51 pts in 81 games
17-18 - 59 pts in 76 games. In 82 games that's 64 pts.
18-19 - 53 pts in 64 games. In 82 games that's 68 pts.
19-20 - 49 pts in 61 games. In 82 games that's 66 pts.

So over 60 pts 3 years in a row for Krug. That's pretty freaking good.

I like Nurse but there is no chance he gets the Oilers 60 pts, not without significant PP time and if he isn't getting PP time now, I don't see how he gets much going forward. It's not like Klefbom is an elite PP guy holding Nurse back. Klefbom is barely adequate. Nurse will definitely not get more PP time with Bouchard coming, that's Bouchard's bread and butter. So I don't see how Nurse can command 8 mill nor do I think he expects it because there is no basis for it. He just doesn't put up the numbers to garner that much money.




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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766895 is a reply to message #766883 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 13:52

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 11:08

“To please inverno”? I wish I had some kind of pull, but thanks for the props. You’re passive aggressiveness game is strong.

I do believe the blue line needs a shake up. I brought OEL because he’s a hot topic, but in reality it’s someone on a shorter deal at a cheaper price point, RH’d preference.

Do we need to trade Nurse? No, but he’d be the first guy I’d move out if I was looking to shake up the roster. We are not a simple move away from being a Cup contender. Holland will be taking almost all phone calls on any player. Despite the flat cap, Nurse will be seeking OEL money on a long term deal. Krug is doing this in Boston. Different dman, but I’ll go back to Trouba who is a bit more similar. 8M over 7. I think the flat cap hurts older UFA’s. Young guys will get paid, they just won’t have as many suitors.

To be fair. Klefbom’s name has come up on Stauffer’s show. He’s the mouthpiece of the organization. Where there is smoke there is fire.

I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive what so ever. Sorry if it came off that way.

When it comes to contracts, like I said teams pay for points. I don't see Nurse scoring more than the 30-35 he gets. Maybe he gets to 40 but he won't get enough PP time to score more.

John Carlson got 8 mill. He's put up 68, 70 and 75 in 69 games. He's also a right shot and right shots are worth more.
Trouba. There isn't a single hockey person who thinks the Trouba contract isn't a gross overpay. That being said, he scored 50 pts his last year with the Jets and he's a right shot.

Krug can ask for 8 mill all he wants, I doubt he gets it in this economic climate. That being said, he's scored:
16-17 - 51 pts in 81 games
17-18 - 59 pts in 76 games. In 82 games that's 64 pts.
18-19 - 53 pts in 64 games. In 82 games that's 68 pts.
19-20 - 49 pts in 61 games. In 82 games that's 66 pts.

So over 60 pts 3 years in a row for Krug. That's pretty freaking good.

I like Nurse but there is no chance he gets the Oilers 60 pts, not without significant PP time and if he isn't getting PP time now, I don't see how he gets much going forward. It's not like Klefbom is an elite PP guy holding Nurse back. Klefbom is barely adequate. Nurse will definitely not get more PP time with Bouchard coming, that's Bouchard's bread and butter. So I don't see how Nurse can command 8 mill nor do I think he expects it because there is no basis for it. He just doesn't put up the numbers to garner that much money.




He got 5.6M on a two year RFA deal. There is at least a 7, likely an 8 starting off his next contract if you’re buying up his UFA years. Otherwise he signs a deal for similar money that walks him to UFA and we risk losing him.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #767528 is a reply to message #766841 ]
Sat, 03 October 2020 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 08:50


I prefer Nurse due to the cost certainty of Klefbom and Oscargasm’s contributions to OilFans.


Apologies for not contributing much these last few months, been contemplating shoulder surgery



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #767530 is a reply to message #767528 ]
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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 03 October 2020 10:55

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 08:50


I prefer Nurse due to the cost certainty of Klefbom and Oscargasm’s contributions to OilFans.


Apologies for not contributing much these last few months, been contemplating shoulder surgery


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #767532 is a reply to message #767530 ]
Sat, 03 October 2020 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 03 October 2020 11:00

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 03 October 2020 10:55

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 08:50


I prefer Nurse due to the cost certainty of Klefbom and Oscargasm’s contributions to OilFans.


Apologies for not contributing much these last few months, been contemplating shoulder surgery


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Not sure I have the meatballs to do it.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #767526 is a reply to message #766583 ]
Sat, 03 October 2020 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
Goaltender Robin Lehner has put pen to paper and signed a 5-year, $25 million extension to stay with the Vegas @GoldenKnights. Announcement expected later today.

Lehner was No. 5 on #TSNHockey’s Top 75 free agents list. #FreeAgentFrenzy
8:30 AM · Oct 3, 2020


Finally done

Pens also extended Jarry for 3.5M



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #767529 is a reply to message #767526 ]
Sat, 03 October 2020 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 03 October 2020 09:33

Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
Goaltender Robin Lehner has put pen to paper and signed a 5-year, $25 million extension to stay with the Vegas @GoldenKnights. Announcement expected later today.

Lehner was No. 5 on #TSNHockey’s Top 75 free agents list. #FreeAgentFrenzy
8:30 AM · Oct 3, 2020


Finally done

Pens also extended Jarry for 3.5M


2 goalie dominoes fall. Unrealistic but I would be pleased if Holland could find a taker for Koskinen and land Markstrom.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #767534 is a reply to message #767526 ]
Sat, 03 October 2020 14:17 Go to previous message
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 03 October 2020 09:33

Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
Goaltender Robin Lehner has put pen to paper and signed a 5-year, $25 million extension to stay with the Vegas @GoldenKnights. Announcement expected later today.

Lehner was No. 5 on #TSNHockey’s Top 75 free agents list. #FreeAgentFrenzy
8:30 AM · Oct 3, 2020


Finally done

Pens also extended Jarry for 3.5M


The Flyers extend Elliott for one year.
https://www.tsn.ca/philadelphia-flyers-re-sign-g-brian-ellio tt-to-1-year-1-5m-deal-1.1533750

Elliott goes from $2.0 million to $1.5 million.


[Updated on: Sat, 03 October 2020 14:18]



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