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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751762 is a reply to message #751757 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 15419
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Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 12:36

Mike wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 11:43

The Gallant firing makes zero sense to me.

Vegas is an expansion team that is in year 4. What they have done to date - making the finals, being in the playoffs every year and being one of the top teams in their division every year - doesn't happen. It probably won't happen again. They think they are underperforming and it was the coaches fault. But are they?

The Pacific Division is very tight. The Flames have built a decent team. At some point logic dictates the Oilers would be better at least to some degree. The Canucks have been building and at some point logic dictates they should get better. Same goes for Arizona. As a team, you don't give over 11 mill to Karlsson to rebuild so the Sharks would be trying to be competitive. So with Vegas, that's 5 teams all of whom are battling for 3 playoff spots. Then you factor in the guy they lean on the most and who's been amazing for them is a now 35 yr old goalie. They have crap back ups which they haven't addressed in 4 yrs. At some point a 35 yr old Fleury is going to slow down just a touch, that's life. With the NHL being soooooo tight, if your goalie falls off just a tiny bit which happens when you get older, all those 3-2, 2-1 games you won before can easily switch. Then you look at their team. Their defense in year 4 is mostly the same. It was mediocre when they came into the league and it hasn't improved. If anything, it got worse is trading away Miller. If a person looks at what Vegas has focused on and spent money on, it's forwards. They resigned Marchessault and Karlsson to bigger money deals. They signed Stastny to a UFA deal. They traded for and signed Pacioretty. They traded for and signed Stone. Did they really need both guys?

So in the last 2 seasons, they spent 23 mill on 3 forwards and not a dime on defense. They actually traded away defense in Miller. When you have Engelland who before Vegas was a 6/7 dman, who's now 37 playing almost 18 mins a night, that will hurt you. Merrill who's a 3rd pairing dman plays almost 19 mins, McNabb who's probably a 3rd pairing guy plays almost 20. If you look at their defense, they might have one of the weaker defense cores in their division. So I don't know if they are underachieving.

I think Vegas over the last couple of seasons forgot they were an expansion team and got caught up in their lightning in a bottle early success. They are operating like they are a seasoned, NHL contending team. They are trading away assets to bring in players for the here and now like a team with a deep farm system can do. They don't have a deep farm system. To trade assets and sign guys to big money deals, you have to have a steady stream of young guys coming up to offset things. They don't. In addition, they haven't addressed their defense and in a league where it's moving towards more and more fast skating, puck moving dmen, they are moving away from that. I think over the last season or 2 Vegas has made a few what I call borderline mistakes. I think this is their first MAJOR mistake.


They are in their 3rd season.


Oops, I had it in my mind they have been around longer than they are. The fact it's even shorter than I had said makes the firing even more puzzling to me.


2nd time he's been fired leaving people confused. Maybe he's a prickly guy when dealing with management. By all accounts, with players, it sounds like he's a pretty hands off just have fun kind of coach. I suppose that is also something some GMs might not appreciate :) Works when the players are all fired up and self motivating, but Vegas has been slowly loosing their 1st season mojo for a while. They are just another team now full of guys enjoying the big bucks with loads of long term deals. Hands off probably isn't gonna be working so well anymore.

And just in general, Vegas fans are expecting great things still. 4 game losing streak is no good. Gonna take some years of disappointment (which hopefully are coming) to fully reset fan expectations after that first season.


I don't know - that's still a pretty strong looking roster. Two REALLY good forward lines, a star goalie and a couple of 40+ point defencemen. There's probably some depth areas where they could be better, but that's true of every team. I think that Vegas is one of those teams that could be like St. Louis last year where if they make the playoffs you'll have to watch out for them. If Fleury stays healthy and gets a little hot, then they can make a deep run.

Worth noting, his .906 save percentage and Subban's .898 are probably contributors to the struggles they have had. Fleury was .927 their first season and .913 last year. Subban's middling - but he was .910 in Year 1 and .902 last year, so across the board regression in save percentage is going to make it harder to win.




It is a pretty good roster, I agree. Just not performing up to expectations. Goal-tending is certainly a reason. Kind of cancels out the pure magic of their 1st year where no goalie on that roster could do any wrong.

Will be curious to see how their play style changes. It's a big shift of coaching style. The Bore is pretty hardcore.

Seattle should hire Gallant for their 1st season. Then just fire him right after it's over and get someone else for year 2+, even if you win the cup :)

[Updated on: Thu, 16 January 2020 13:41]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751763 is a reply to message #751757 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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And it's not like his players are underperforming.

Pacioretty and Mark Stone are nearly point per game players. Smith, Karlsson, Marchessault are all right where they should be at 30+ points so far. Shea Theodore is having a great year with 28 points and Schmidt is about 0.5 points per game.

His players are performing.

It sucks that we have never gotten one of these top coaches. Trotz, Gallant, and Quenneville have all been available now in recent years. I am betting that John Cooper is fired at the end of the season if Tampa doesn't go to a conference final. Lot's of good talent changing teams.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751766 is a reply to message #751763 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:42

And it's not like his players are underperforming.

Pacioretty and Mark Stone are nearly point per game players. Smith, Karlsson, Marchessault are all right where they should be at 30+ points so far. Shea Theodore is having a great year with 28 points and Schmidt is about 0.5 points per game.

His players are performing.

It sucks that we have never gotten one of these top coaches. Trotz, Gallant, and Quenneville have all been available now in recent years. I am betting that John Cooper is fired at the end of the season if Tampa doesn't go to a conference final. Lot's of good talent changing teams.



I've probably got away from my original argument by pondering what McCrimmon might be thinking about coaching style/coaching approach to players, micromanaging etc...

My original comment was that the view from management/fans around Vegas has been distorted by their first season. They are in win now mode. They firmly believe they should be a top contender right now, and they feel they have that proof from year 1 that it should certainly be the case. Being on pace for a 90 point season is not nearly good enough. They are locked in with their players, so the stop the bleeding move after that 4 game losing streak is the coaching change. And a prayer that they can repeat what St Louis did last year, maybe even reproduce something like what DeBoer in his first year with the Sharks (he got to the finals in his first year with Jersey too).

Another disappointing season that doesn't have a built in excuse about a bad 5 min major call would be a bummer for poor Vegas fans. They will finally have to question what GMGM and McCrimmon built.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 January 2020 14:16]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751765 is a reply to message #751757 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 12:36

Mike wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 11:43

The Gallant firing makes zero sense to me.

Vegas is an expansion team that is in year 4. What they have done to date - making the finals, being in the playoffs every year and being one of the top teams in their division every year - doesn't happen. It probably won't happen again. They think they are underperforming and it was the coaches fault. But are they?

The Pacific Division is very tight. The Flames have built a decent team. At some point logic dictates the Oilers would be better at least to some degree. The Canucks have been building and at some point logic dictates they should get better. Same goes for Arizona. As a team, you don't give over 11 mill to Karlsson to rebuild so the Sharks would be trying to be competitive. So with Vegas, that's 5 teams all of whom are battling for 3 playoff spots. Then you factor in the guy they lean on the most and who's been amazing for them is a now 35 yr old goalie. They have crap back ups which they haven't addressed in 4 yrs. At some point a 35 yr old Fleury is going to slow down just a touch, that's life. With the NHL being soooooo tight, if your goalie falls off just a tiny bit which happens when you get older, all those 3-2, 2-1 games you won before can easily switch. Then you look at their team. Their defense in year 4 is mostly the same. It was mediocre when they came into the league and it hasn't improved. If anything, it got worse is trading away Miller. If a person looks at what Vegas has focused on and spent money on, it's forwards. They resigned Marchessault and Karlsson to bigger money deals. They signed Stastny to a UFA deal. They traded for and signed Pacioretty. They traded for and signed Stone. Did they really need both guys?

So in the last 2 seasons, they spent 23 mill on 3 forwards and not a dime on defense. They actually traded away defense in Miller. When you have Engelland who before Vegas was a 6/7 dman, who's now 37 playing almost 18 mins a night, that will hurt you. Merrill who's a 3rd pairing dman plays almost 19 mins, McNabb who's probably a 3rd pairing guy plays almost 20. If you look at their defense, they might have one of the weaker defense cores in their division. So I don't know if they are underachieving.

I think Vegas over the last couple of seasons forgot they were an expansion team and got caught up in their lightning in a bottle early success. They are operating like they are a seasoned, NHL contending team. They are trading away assets to bring in players for the here and now like a team with a deep farm system can do. They don't have a deep farm system. To trade assets and sign guys to big money deals, you have to have a steady stream of young guys coming up to offset things. They don't. In addition, they haven't addressed their defense and in a league where it's moving towards more and more fast skating, puck moving dmen, they are moving away from that. I think over the last season or 2 Vegas has made a few what I call borderline mistakes. I think this is their first MAJOR mistake.


They are in their 3rd season.


Oops, I had it in my mind they have been around longer than they are. The fact it's even shorter than I had said makes the firing even more puzzling to me.


2nd time he's been fired leaving people confused. Maybe he's a prickly guy when dealing with management. By all accounts, with players, it sounds like he's a pretty hands off just have fun kind of coach. I suppose that is also something some GMs might not appreciate :) Works when the players are all fired up and self motivating, but Vegas has been slowly loosing their 1st season mojo for a while. They are just another team now full of guys enjoying the big bucks with loads of long term deals. Hands off probably isn't gonna be working so well anymore.

And just in general, Vegas fans are expecting great things still. 4 game losing streak is no good. Gonna take some years of disappointment (which hopefully are coming) to fully reset fan expectations after that first season.


I don't know - that's still a pretty strong looking roster. Two REALLY good forward lines, a star goalie and a couple of 40+ point defencemen. There's probably some depth areas where they could be better, but that's true of every team. I think that Vegas is one of those teams that could be like St. Louis last year where if they make the playoffs you'll have to watch out for them. If Fleury stays healthy and gets a little hot, then they can make a deep run.

Worth noting, his .906 save percentage and Subban's .898 are probably contributors to the struggles they have had. Fleury was .927 their first season and .913 last year. Subban's middling - but he was .910 in Year 1 and .902 last year, so across the board regression in save percentage is going to make it harder to win.



They have Theodore who can get 40 pts, isn't spectacular, suspect defensively but is decent and then Schmidt who again isn't spectacular but pretty decent. On a lot of teams, they would be in the second pair in my opinion.

Then they have McNabb who's a 3rd pairing defensively dman on most teams.
Hague who's a big, defensive dman.
Holden is the same. His NHL numbers are pretty pedestrian.
Engelland is definitely a 3rd pairing guy, defensive guy.
Merrill is a 3rd pairing defensive guy.

So the bulk of their defense is 3rd pairing guys that aren't that strong moving the puck. They moved out one of their better puck movers in Miller.

Their star goalie is 35 and they don't have a decent back up to keep him fresh.

I think their roster is decent but I don't think it's as good as people think especially on defense.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751767 is a reply to message #751765 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:47

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 12:36

Mike wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 11:43

The Gallant firing makes zero sense to me.

Vegas is an expansion team that is in year 4. What they have done to date - making the finals, being in the playoffs every year and being one of the top teams in their division every year - doesn't happen. It probably won't happen again. They think they are underperforming and it was the coaches fault. But are they?

The Pacific Division is very tight. The Flames have built a decent team. At some point logic dictates the Oilers would be better at least to some degree. The Canucks have been building and at some point logic dictates they should get better. Same goes for Arizona. As a team, you don't give over 11 mill to Karlsson to rebuild so the Sharks would be trying to be competitive. So with Vegas, that's 5 teams all of whom are battling for 3 playoff spots. Then you factor in the guy they lean on the most and who's been amazing for them is a now 35 yr old goalie. They have crap back ups which they haven't addressed in 4 yrs. At some point a 35 yr old Fleury is going to slow down just a touch, that's life. With the NHL being soooooo tight, if your goalie falls off just a tiny bit which happens when you get older, all those 3-2, 2-1 games you won before can easily switch. Then you look at their team. Their defense in year 4 is mostly the same. It was mediocre when they came into the league and it hasn't improved. If anything, it got worse is trading away Miller. If a person looks at what Vegas has focused on and spent money on, it's forwards. They resigned Marchessault and Karlsson to bigger money deals. They signed Stastny to a UFA deal. They traded for and signed Pacioretty. They traded for and signed Stone. Did they really need both guys?

So in the last 2 seasons, they spent 23 mill on 3 forwards and not a dime on defense. They actually traded away defense in Miller. When you have Engelland who before Vegas was a 6/7 dman, who's now 37 playing almost 18 mins a night, that will hurt you. Merrill who's a 3rd pairing dman plays almost 19 mins, McNabb who's probably a 3rd pairing guy plays almost 20. If you look at their defense, they might have one of the weaker defense cores in their division. So I don't know if they are underachieving.

I think Vegas over the last couple of seasons forgot they were an expansion team and got caught up in their lightning in a bottle early success. They are operating like they are a seasoned, NHL contending team. They are trading away assets to bring in players for the here and now like a team with a deep farm system can do. They don't have a deep farm system. To trade assets and sign guys to big money deals, you have to have a steady stream of young guys coming up to offset things. They don't. In addition, they haven't addressed their defense and in a league where it's moving towards more and more fast skating, puck moving dmen, they are moving away from that. I think over the last season or 2 Vegas has made a few what I call borderline mistakes. I think this is their first MAJOR mistake.


They are in their 3rd season.


Oops, I had it in my mind they have been around longer than they are. The fact it's even shorter than I had said makes the firing even more puzzling to me.


2nd time he's been fired leaving people confused. Maybe he's a prickly guy when dealing with management. By all accounts, with players, it sounds like he's a pretty hands off just have fun kind of coach. I suppose that is also something some GMs might not appreciate :) Works when the players are all fired up and self motivating, but Vegas has been slowly loosing their 1st season mojo for a while. They are just another team now full of guys enjoying the big bucks with loads of long term deals. Hands off probably isn't gonna be working so well anymore.

And just in general, Vegas fans are expecting great things still. 4 game losing streak is no good. Gonna take some years of disappointment (which hopefully are coming) to fully reset fan expectations after that first season.


I don't know - that's still a pretty strong looking roster. Two REALLY good forward lines, a star goalie and a couple of 40+ point defencemen. There's probably some depth areas where they could be better, but that's true of every team. I think that Vegas is one of those teams that could be like St. Louis last year where if they make the playoffs you'll have to watch out for them. If Fleury stays healthy and gets a little hot, then they can make a deep run.

Worth noting, his .906 save percentage and Subban's .898 are probably contributors to the struggles they have had. Fleury was .927 their first season and .913 last year. Subban's middling - but he was .910 in Year 1 and .902 last year, so across the board regression in save percentage is going to make it harder to win.



They have Theodore who can get 40 pts, isn't spectacular, suspect defensively but is decent and then Schmidt who again isn't spectacular but pretty decent. On a lot of teams, they would be in the second pair in my opinion.

Then they have McNabb who's a 3rd pairing defensively dman on most teams.
Hague who's a big, defensive dman.
Holden is the same. His NHL numbers are pretty pedestrian.
Engelland is definitely a 3rd pairing guy, defensive guy.
Merrill is a 3rd pairing defensive guy.

So the bulk of their defense is 3rd pairing guys that aren't that strong moving the puck. They moved out one of their better puck movers in Miller.

Their star goalie is 35 and they don't have a decent back up to keep him fresh.

I think their roster is decent but I don't think it's as good as people think especially on defense.


They're probably a lot like the Leafs when you look at the roster. The goaltending is different this year of course, but Fleury is capable of being a #1. The Leafs rebounded after firing a living legend so great that he has to talk about himself in the 3rd person. Why can't Vegas after firing a guy used to being dumped? :)



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751740 is a reply to message #743823 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
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Tonight, we are all Leafs' fans.


97.

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751776 is a reply to message #743823 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently online Oscargasm
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So. Uh. Let’s go Leafs tonight... (I feel dirty, but it’s necessary)


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751790 is a reply to message #751776 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently online Mike
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 19:36

So. Uh. Let’s go Leafs tonight... (I feel dirty, but it’s necessary)


Leafs didn’t go...stupid leaves.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751794 is a reply to message #751790 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently online Oscargasm
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Mike wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 21:07

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 19:36

So. Uh. Let’s go Leafs tonight... (I feel dirty, but it’s necessary)


Leafs didn’t go...stupid leaves.


Sigh. I guess at least Eakins and the Ducks beat Nashville.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751793 is a reply to message #751776 ]
Thu, 16 January 2020 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 16:36

So. Uh. Let’s go Leafs tonight... (I feel dirty, but it’s necessary)


#FireKeefe



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751800 is a reply to message #743823 ]
Fri, 17 January 2020 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Hockey gods are the ultimate trolls.

Tkachuk gets off free. Scores winner in a SO next game.

Virtanen gets off free after a clear elbow on Perreault without the puck. Scores game winner next game.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751813 is a reply to message #751800 ]
Fri, 17 January 2020 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently online Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 09:45

Hockey gods are the ultimate trolls.

Tkachuk gets off free. Scores winner in a SO next game.

Virtanen gets off free after a clear elbow on Perreault without the puck. Scores game winner next game.


It’s okay. Kass will score the game winner Jan 29



Two time Survivor CHAMP

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751820 is a reply to message #751813 ]
Fri, 17 January 2020 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 11:08

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 09:45

Hockey gods are the ultimate trolls.

Tkachuk gets off free. Scores winner in a SO next game.

Virtanen gets off free after a clear elbow on Perreault without the puck. Scores game winner next game.


It’s okay. Kass will score the game winner Jan 29

Any idea if that game is Must Win?



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751824 is a reply to message #751820 ]
Fri, 17 January 2020 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 11:51

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 11:08

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 09:45

Hockey gods are the ultimate trolls.

Tkachuk gets off free. Scores winner in a SO next game.

Virtanen gets off free after a clear elbow on Perreault without the puck. Scores game winner next game.


It’s okay. Kass will score the game winner Jan 29

Any idea if that game is Must Win?

Too early to tell.



This is fine.

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751839 is a reply to message #743823 ]
Fri, 17 January 2020 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Backes on waivers

https://www.tsn.ca/boston-bruins-place-f-david-backes-on-wai vers-1.1428963

Poor guy. If Chia signed him, he would have had the full NMC.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751840 is a reply to message #751839 ]
Fri, 17 January 2020 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 13:43

Backes on waivers

https://www.tsn.ca/boston-bruins-place-f-david-backes-on-wai vers-1.1428963

Poor guy. If Chia signed him, he would have had the full NMC.


Ouch. That's painful. Chances are if they're waiving him, they already have tried giving him away at half value, so he won't get picked up. Tough way to end your career.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751847 is a reply to message #751840 ]
Fri, 17 January 2020 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Adam wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 13:46

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 13:43

Backes on waivers

https://www.tsn.ca/boston-bruins-place-f-david-backes-on-wai vers-1.1428963

Poor guy. If Chia signed him, he would have had the full NMC.


Ouch. That's painful. Chances are if they're waiving him, they already have tried giving him away at half value, so he won't get picked up. Tough way to end your career.


Just a refresher on that amazing 2016 UFA class:

Mike Pfeil @mikeFAIL
July 1 2016:
Kyle Okoposo - 7 Years/ $42M
Troy Brouwer - 4 Years/ $18M
David Backes - 5 Years/ $30M
Milan Lucic - 7 Years/ $42M
Frans Nielsen - 6 Years/ $31.5M
Loui Eriksson - 6 Years/ $36M
Andrew Ladd - 7 Years/ $38.5M



Somehow the flames managed to have 2 of these guys on their cap :)

In season 4 of those deals, only guys playing their contract with decent minutes on teams not intentionally tanking are Okposo (2nd/3rd line), Looch (3rd/4th line) and Eriksson (3rd line). Nielsen is just one of many tank commanders out in the field.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 January 2020 14:19]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751849 is a reply to message #751847 ]
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Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 14:17

Adam wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 13:46

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 13:43

Backes on waivers

https://www.tsn.ca/boston-bruins-place-f-david-backes-on-wai vers-1.1428963

Poor guy. If Chia signed him, he would have had the full NMC.


Ouch. That's painful. Chances are if they're waiving him, they already have tried giving him away at half value, so he won't get picked up. Tough way to end your career.


Just a refresher on that amazing 2016 UFA class:

Mike Pfeil @mikeFAIL
July 1 2016:
Kyle Okposo - 7 Years/ $42M
Troy Brouwer - 4 Years/ $18M
David Backes - 5 Years/ $30M
Milan Lucic - 7 Years/ $42M
Frans Nielsen - 6 Years/ $31.5M
Loui Eriksson - 6 Years/ $36M
Andrew Ladd - 7 Years/ $38.5M



Somehow the flames managed to have 2 of these guys on their cap :)

In season 4 of those deals, only guys playing their contract with decent minutes on teams not intentionally tanking are Okposo (2nd/3rd line), Looch (3rd/4th line) and Eriksson (3rd line). Nielsen is just one of many tank commanders out in the field.


Worth noting, Okposo and Lucic were the youngest of those guys. Everyone else was on the wrong side of 30 that summer. Age matters in hockey, and even really good players are likely to decline as they progress through their 30s. Many of these deals took players to 37 or 38 years of age - they were stupid the second they were signed.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751852 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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Eberle was shoved from behind so he would go face first into the post. Needed help getting off (passed tests, so unlikely to have a concussion).



Ref ignored it, so it was up to DoPS to give punishment on this very dirty play that we can all see now thanks to the miracle of recording:


NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
NY Rangers’ Ryan Lindgren has been fined $2,486.56, the maximum allowable under the CBA, for Interference on NY Islanders’ Jordan Eberle.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751853 is a reply to message #751852 ]
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 14:37

Eberle was shoved from behind so he would go face first into the post. Needed help getting off (passed tests, so unlikely to have a concussion).



Ref ignored it, so it was up to DoPS to give punishment on this very dirty play that we can all see now thanks to the miracle of recording:


NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
NY Rangers’ Ryan Lindgren has been fined $2,486.56, the maximum allowable under the CBA, for Interference on NY Islanders’ Jordan Eberle.



Considering the Virtanen and Tkachuk punishments, that's positively draconian of Parros!



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751905 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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Ovi passes Lemieux and ties Yzerman with a hattrick today. 200 back of Wayne


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751917 is a reply to message #751905 ]
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 14:33

Ovi passes Lemieux and ties Yzerman with a hattrick today. 200 back of Wayne


It's all up to OV and Pastrnak to save us from a Matthews rocket richard trophy.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751935 is a reply to message #751917 ]
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 14:55

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 14:33

Ovi passes Lemieux and ties Yzerman with a hattrick today. 200 back of Wayne


It's all up to OV and Pastrnak to save us from a Matthews rocket richard trophy.

Matthews is due for an injury any day now. He never plays the full season.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #752223 is a reply to message #751935 ]
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 15:51

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 14:55

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 14:33

Ovi passes Lemieux and ties Yzerman with a hattrick today. 200 back of Wayne


It's all up to OV and Pastrnak to save us from a Matthews rocket richard trophy.

Matthews is due for an injury any day now. He never plays the full season.


Matthews bows out of the ASG because of a nagging injury



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751940 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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Flames down 4-0 to the Sens in the third


97.

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751941 is a reply to message #751940 ]
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Suomalainen wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 16:00

Flames down 4-0 to the Sens in the third


Brady >>>>>>>>> Matthew



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751948 is a reply to message #751940 ]
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Suomalainen wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 17:00

Flames down 4-0 to the Sens in the third


Sploog.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751950 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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The Habs goal horn is even worse than ours.


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751951 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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I guess covered for bad defensive play for 4 years straight hasn't earned Andersen any cred from the fans yet. Leafs fans are giving him the Bronx cheer tonight in one of his rare rough games.


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751952 is a reply to message #751951 ]
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 20:19

I guess covered for bad defensive play for 4 years straight hasn't earned Andersen any cred from the fans yet. Leafs fans are giving him the Bronx cheer tonight in one of his rare rough games.


The BHawks are in the race. This win gives them 52 points.

Also! Vegas down 4-2 to the habs with 5:30 to go in the 3rd.

I’m a Sharks fan tonight.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751953 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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Vegas ties it at 4 with 7.5 seconds left. Offside review comin!

Good goal. Looks like Vegas is getting at least a point tonight.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751954 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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Okaaaay. This is absolutely insane.

Oilers, Flames, Coyotes, Golden Knights all with 57 points. Canucks at 56.

Pacific is the best division in hockey. Change my mind.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751956 is a reply to message #751954 ]
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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 20:01

Okaaaay. This is absolutely insane.

Oilers, Flames, Coyotes, Golden Knights all with 57 points. Canucks at 56.

Pacific is the best division in hockey. Change my mind.

Uniformly mediocre is not the same as the best.



This is fine.

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751955 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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Jonas Siegel @jonassiegel
Sheldon Keefe: “I thought that we were an immature team down in Florida and I thought we were an immature team here today.”


Wonder if Captain "I did my job" Tavares will be able to rally these troops and teach some maturity.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751957 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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4th PP of the night for the Canucks. They lead the league in PP attempts by double digits now. Why is this happening? Are they full of flopping turtles like Tkachuk?


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751958 is a reply to message #751957 ]
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NetBOG wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 23:05

4th PP of the night for the Canucks. They lead the league in PP attempts by double digits now. Why is this happening? Are they full of flopping turtles like Tkachuk?

Elias Pettersson is a Swedish fish.



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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #752013 is a reply to message #751957 ]
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NetBOG wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 21:05

4th PP of the night for the Canucks. They lead the league in PP attempts by double digits now. Why is this happening? Are they full of flopping turtles like Tkachuk?


There's only one rule for penalties in the NHL: your penalties taken will roughly equal your penalties drawn. This chart is for penalty minutes, but it's basically a linear relationship across the league. This only happens if there is a mandate from the league to keep things roughly even.

Anecdotally, you can even see it in the way the media reports on this stuff. If there is a game were the PP's are 7 to 1, the commentary is some variation of, "look at the refs trying to make themselves part of the game". If a similar scenario happens in the NFL, the commentary is generally much more skewed to one team being undisciplined, as opposed to the refs having some sort of bias.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK0tMO1UcAA2YyG?format=jpg&name=small


Image courtesy of @AlexNovet on twitter
https://twitter.com/AlexNovet/status/1201666368283627520?s=2 0

[Updated on: Mon, 20 January 2020 13:19]


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 262 GF / 257 GA (+5) after 55 games

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #752042 is a reply to message #752013 ]
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Goose wrote on Mon, 20 January 2020 13:10

NetBOG wrote on Sat, 18 January 2020 21:05

4th PP of the night for the Canucks. They lead the league in PP attempts by double digits now. Why is this happening? Are they full of flopping turtles like Tkachuk?


There's only one rule for penalties in the NHL: your penalties taken will roughly equal your penalties drawn. This chart is for penalty minutes, but it's basically a linear relationship across the league. This only happens if there is a mandate from the league to keep things roughly even.

Anecdotally, you can even see it in the way the media reports on this stuff. If there is a game were the PP's are 7 to 1, the commentary is some variation of, "look at the refs trying to make themselves part of the game". If a similar scenario happens in the NFL, the commentary is generally much more skewed to one team being undisciplined, as opposed to the refs having some sort of bias.


Image courtesy of @AlexNovet on twitter
https://twitter.com/AlexNovet/status/1201666368283627520?s=2 0


PIMS is not a great indicator of PP/PK advantage because misconducts, fighting majors, and offsetting minors skew the results. I wish I had the tools he has to graph PP opp vs PK opp. That would be a much better indicator of who is getting an advantage.

I'd even take a PP vs PK plus minus, but like I said, don't have the tools.

[Updated on: Mon, 20 January 2020 20:59]


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #752045 is a reply to message #752042 ]
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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 20 January 2020 19:57


PIMS is not a great indicator of PP/PK advantage because misconducts, fighting majors, and offsetting minors skew the results. I wish I had the tools he has to graph PP opp vs PK opp. That would be a much better indicator of who is getting an advantage.

I'd even take a PP vs PK plus minus, but like I said, don't have the tools.



You can go to moneypuck.com and build your own custom chart (just adjust select Custom Chart and adjust the drop downs for each axis), and chart Penalties taken vs. Penalties drawn. I can try to post one tomorrow. But it looks essentially the same as the penalty mins one. Way too linear to be random. The biggest tell to me is that there are no teams down in the bottom right of the chart (high number of penalties drawn with a low number of penalties taken). You would think that a fast, skilled team would be able to exploit that and it literally doesn't exist in the entire league.

You can even see it just by looking at the NHL.com stats page for penalties drawn vs. taken. Look at the teams with the most penalties drawn: Avs, Canucks, Bruins, Rangers, Devils. They're 15th, 10th, 13th, 1st and 4th in penalties taken. You don't think it's a bit odd, that the top 5 in terms of penalties drawn are also in the top half of the league in terms of penalties taken (and 3 of them are in the top 10)?

You can do the same the other way too. Teams with the fewest penalties drawn: NYI, Leafs, Canadiens, Stars & Jets are 20th, 30th, 22nd, 16th and 31st in penalties taken.

http://moneypuck.com/teams.htm

[Updated on: Tue, 21 January 2020 07:49]


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 262 GF / 257 GA (+5) after 55 games

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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #751959 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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Sutter loses his cool and goes after Thornton, but Joe isn't a crying baby and he stood up for himself, so i guess no 2 game suspension.


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 Re: 2019 - 20 NHL Game Thread [message #752115 is a reply to message #743823 ]
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AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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Alright, honesty time ...

Hands up - everyone who predicted that the Florida Panthers would not only be in a playoff spot, but leading the entire NHL in Goals For at the All-Star break. ... Anyone? ...

OK - how about everyone who predicted that Columbus would not only be in a playoff spot, but leading the entire NHL in Goals Against at the All-Star break. ... Anyone? ...

OK - how about everyone who predicted that the Vancouver Canucks would not only be in a playoff spot, but leading the Pacific Division. ... Anyone? ...

Yeah, me neither. It's been a wacky year. At least I could realistically have predicted the league's two leaders in the scoring race.



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