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 Speculation » The Haul for HallPages (6): [1  2  3  4  5  6  >  »]
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 The Haul for Hall [message #748491]
Mon, 02 December 2019 18:10 Go to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
Messages: 1180
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland

1 Cup

There's been a lot of sub-threads around here and Twitter, plus chatter on the radio, and even on HNIC about Taylor Hall and a potential trade back to Edmonton and/or UFA signing this summer. I think it's worth its own thread to discuss A) what it would take to bring him back as a rental, and B) sign him in the summer. Lots of people seem to be against him coming back period, whereas others seem to be willing to pay a lot to trade for and re-sign him long term.

I'm still on the fence about the whole thing. I think NJ is going to want some good prospects/picks for Hall, and would not be looking to take back any salary beyond this year. The salary part is a huge problem for the Oilers, since they have almost no cap space. Salary would have to be going back or retained by the Devils in order to make any deal work. What sort of package could Holland put together that would actually get NJ interested? JP ++++ what?

Would a sign & trade be a possibility? I doubt it from the Hall camp. There would be no incentive for him to do that.

I'm not so sure Hall would sign in Edmonton as a UFA in the summer. He would have his pick of probably almost any team in the league, and still a sour taste from when he was traded. I think if you want to take a run at signing him, trading for him this year and going on a playoff run will be your best bet to get him to sign on. On the open market, I bet he gets 10M/yr easy, probably more.

The Oilers need a top 6 winger: Hall - Nuge - Neal would be a nice 2nd line to be able to follow up the McDavid line. Not sure it makes us contenders this year, but I think it's a nice piece to put in place.

What's the Haul for Hall going to be?



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748494 is a reply to message #748491 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 16705
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

jds308 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:10

There's been a lot of sub-threads around here and Twitter, plus chatter on the radio, and even on HNIC about Taylor Hall and a potential trade back to Edmonton and/or UFA signing this summer. I think it's worth its own thread to discuss A) what it would take to bring him back as a rental, and B) sign him in the summer. Lots of people seem to be against him coming back period, whereas others seem to be willing to pay a lot to trade for and re-sign him long term.

I'm still on the fence about the whole thing. I think NJ is going to want some good prospects/picks for Hall, and would not be looking to take back any salary beyond this year. The salary part is a huge problem for the Oilers, since they have almost no cap space. Salary would have to be going back or retained by the Devils in order to make any deal work. What sort of package could Holland put together that would actually get NJ interested? JP ++++ what?

Would a sign & trade be a possibility? I doubt it from the Hall camp. There would be no incentive for him to do that.

I'm not so sure Hall would sign in Edmonton as a UFA in the summer. He would have his pick of probably almost any team in the league, and still a sour taste from when he was traded. I think if you want to take a run at signing him, trading for him this year and going on a playoff run will be your best bet to get him to sign on. On the open market, I bet he gets 10M/yr easy, probably more.

The Oilers need a top 6 winger: Hall - Nuge - Neal would be a nice 2nd line to be able to follow up the McDavid line. Not sure it makes us contenders this year, but I think it's a nice piece to put in place.

What's the Haul for Hall going to be?


Should be something around what Stone returned. 2nd and a couple good prospects, or a 1st and 1 really good prospect. If there is a guarantee of an extension worked out beforehand, maybe it costs a bit more. And maybe the cost goes up since we need to move out salary to make it work.

I don't think I have any interest in Hall if he's not 9M or below on a long term deal. If he wants to go for the bidding war, he can go have at it. If Stauffer's hints for the last year are true and Hall may be feeling like there is some unfinished business here, and he wants to be with his bro Nurse and buddies McDavid and Nuge, then no problemo if he is giving a discount. If a discount is there, I think you make that trade ASAP before he can go to UFA.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748495 is a reply to message #748494 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 2240
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

Larsson
JP
Mike Smith

Hall
Butcher
Schneider



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748497 is a reply to message #748495 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:56

Larsson
JP
Mike Smith

Hall
Butcher
Schneider


Oh god, Schneider. Taking his trash deal probably makes it impossible to extend Hall.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748498 is a reply to message #748497 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 2240
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:56

Larsson
JP
Mike Smith

Hall
Butcher
Schneider


Oh god, Schneider. Taking his trash deal probably makes it impossible to extend Hall.

Larsson
JP
smith
Russell (either one)
Nuge
1st

Hall
Schneider 50% retained
Hughes
Butcher



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748499 is a reply to message #748498 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 16705
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 19:05

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:56

Larsson
JP
Mike Smith

Hall
Butcher
Schneider


Oh god, Schneider. Taking his trash deal probably makes it impossible to extend Hall.

Larsson
JP
smith
Russell (either one)
Nuge
1st

Hall
Schneider 50% retained
Hughes
Butcher


Now we're talkin!



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748503 is a reply to message #748499 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC  is currently offline welcometotheOC
Messages: 456
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 20:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 19:05

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:56

Larsson
JP
Mike Smith

Hall
Butcher
Schneider


Oh god, Schneider. Taking his trash deal probably makes it impossible to extend Hall.

Larsson
JP
smith
Russell (either one)
Nuge
1st

Hall
Schneider 50% retained
Hughes
Butcher


Now we're talkin!


Nuge AND the 1st too!!?!?!?!?!?! FFS! Why not just give them McDavid too?

LOL rofl



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748509 is a reply to message #748503 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 2240
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 20:46

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 20:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 19:05

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 18:56

Larsson
JP
Mike Smith

Hall
Butcher
Schneider


Oh god, Schneider. Taking his trash deal probably makes it impossible to extend Hall.

Larsson
JP
smith
Russell (either one)
Nuge
1st

Hall
Schneider 50% retained
Hughes
Butcher


Now we're talkin!


Nuge AND the 1st too!!?!?!?!?!?! FFS! Why not just give them McDavid too?

LOL rofl


It’s the 31 overall so basically a 2nd



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748511 is a reply to message #748509 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 3960
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

3 Cups

I don't think we're a Cup contender this year. Robbing the prospect cupboard for a few months of Hall is not worth it IMO. Definitely hoping Holland is making him his first call July 1st or whenever they can talk though.

Realistically, as some have said, we are looking at at least a 1st plus a top prospect, plus a roster player. Likely another conditional pick if he re-ups in the summer. I would rather keep the stable of Dmen we are building, have some depth for the first time in what, 20 years? And get him for "free" this summer if he wants to give us a bit of a discount. Hall at Draisaitl's deal would go a long way to making us contenders IMO.

Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
Hall-RNH-Neal

That's a helluva top 6. With our D looking like it's coming along, add in a solid G, and all of a sudden we are looking pretty good.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748512 is a reply to message #748511 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Registered: May 2009
Location: Saskatoon

4 Cups

Mike wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 07:10

I don't think we're a Cup contender this year. Robbing the prospect cupboard for a few months of Hall is not worth it IMO. Definitely hoping Holland is making him his first call July 1st or whenever they can talk though.

Realistically, as some have said, we are looking at at least a 1st plus a top prospect, plus a roster player. Likely another conditional pick if he re-ups in the summer. I would rather keep the stable of Dmen we are building, have some depth for the first time in what, 20 years? And get him for "free" this summer if he wants to give us a bit of a discount. Hall at Draisaitl's deal would go a long way to making us contenders IMO.

Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
Hall-RNH-Neal

That's a helluva top 6. With our D looking like it's coming along, add in a solid G, and all of a sudden we are looking pretty good.


Obviously that would be ideal, getting him without having to give up anything in the form of prospects/picks/players. The issue with that is there will be maybe 8 teams vying for his services before the trade deadline. 30 come July 1. If Holland can get permission from Shero to have that discussion with Hall’s agent before hand, to gauge his interest in playing for the NWO (New World Oilers), sell him on playing on a line and on a powerplay with the likes of McDavid, Drai, RNH and Neal and he gives Holland the answer he wants to hear, I think you go hard for it to bring him in for this playoff run and beyond.

I suggested in another thread; Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Samarukov and a conditional 2nd that becomes a first if Hall re-ups with the club. We’d likely have to include a roster player too to drop some dollars and get it to work cap wise. Or make a corresponding dump/roster move to shuffle maybe Gagner and Manning to Bakersfield (though I haven’t had enough coffee to compute the savings on having them shuffled down).

Let’s face it, Samarukov is a legit D prospect, but he’s behind Bouch, Broberg and Jones. Pair that with the NHL group in Klef, Bear, Nurse, Benning and the 4M shot blockers Russell and Lars. He’s far down the list, and with a skill set that would be better suited for a 3-5 role instead of a 7th manz. Good for injury call up but look, I get it. Our D cupboard is in a good place. Our forward depth is not.

Though, if/when I reacquire a player in my dynasty hockey or football leagues I always think of what I received when I traded that player away in the first place, so let’s put it that way. Would you take Larsson and Hall for Yams, JP, Samarukov, $$$ contract, and a 1st? I would.



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Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748500 is a reply to message #748491 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 4258
Registered: May 2009
Location: Saskatoon

4 Cups

Let’s have som fun. I want Hall back...

McLeod, Samarukov and Manning and 1st for Hall w/retained cash (extended for 4 years at 7.5)



Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748501 is a reply to message #748491 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

We don't need his kind here. Took 3 years to get the loser stink off as it is.

Hopefully Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto are interested.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748502 is a reply to message #748501 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 16705
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Mon, 02 December 2019 20:38

We don't need his kind here. Took 3 years to get the loser stink off as it is.

Hopefully Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto are interested.


No chance that Hall has matured since his days here? How long does he have to be a part of bad teams where he is the only guy that can do stuff before he would be able to join a team as a more support guy, just put his head down and try to win games. I think Kessel should have changed a lot of minds about how useful an elite talent with a weird/distracting personality can be in the right situation.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748504 is a reply to message #748491 ]
Mon, 02 December 2019 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 425
Registered: January 2011

No Cups

Larsson + 3rd + Logan Day + conditional 1st if Hall re-signs before July 1.


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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748526 is a reply to message #748491 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 2106
Registered: November 2007

2 Cups

If the Oilers are in a good spot near the deadline, and the stars are healthy, you go for it.

You just never know what will happen next year. The health may not be there, prospects may not pan out. In a year and a half, Nuge is due for a new contract. It's possible he may not be an Oiler and we are left with an inferior replacement. There are always going to he reasons it's not ideal to go for it. But we literally have the best two players in the game right now. Seems as good as any year to go for it should we maintain our position.

Adding a couple wingers and a defenseman would get us a lot closer.

I'll be very disappointed if we have our first round pick after a playoff performance. I'll be very disappointed if all of our mid-tier prospects are still around.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748527 is a reply to message #748526 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 16705
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:11

If the Oilers are in a good spot near the deadline, and the stars are healthy, you go for it.

You just never know what will happen next year. The health may not be there, prospects may not pan out. In a year and a half, Nuge is due for a new contract. It's possible he may not be an Oiler and we are left with an inferior replacement. There are always going to he reasons it's not ideal to go for it. But we literally have the best two players in the game right now. Seems as good as any year to go for it should we maintain our position.

Adding a couple wingers and a defenseman would get us a lot closer.

I'll be very disappointed if we have our first round pick after a playoff performance. I'll be very disappointed if all of our mid-tier prospects are still around.


Thinking of benefits of trying to make this move earlier.

One that stands out right away is if you are able to use a guy like Hall to create a very reliable 2nd scoring line, you can start cutting down minutes for McDrai ASAP, instead of going months longer playing them 22+ in every close game. If they keep that up all the way to the deadline, you're starting to run the risk that even if you make the playoffs, they'll have nothing left for them. Obviously you put them at a higher risk of injury too.

Another is the time to develop chemistry and for the coach to figure out what he has. Lots of times guys brought in at the deadline never get enough time to catch up with new systems, or to find chemistry with any linemates.

And last, just having more time with a better lineup to try to get a better shot of home ice advantage.


Now...if you make that move and things fall apart and you miss playoffs. Well, I think it will finally be time to fire Joey.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748529 is a reply to message #748527 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 13641
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:16

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:11

If the Oilers are in a good spot near the deadline, and the stars are healthy, you go for it.

You just never know what will happen next year. The health may not be there, prospects may not pan out. In a year and a half, Nuge is due for a new contract. It's possible he may not be an Oiler and we are left with an inferior replacement. There are always going to he reasons it's not ideal to go for it. But we literally have the best two players in the game right now. Seems as good as any year to go for it should we maintain our position.

Adding a couple wingers and a defenseman would get us a lot closer.

I'll be very disappointed if we have our first round pick after a playoff performance. I'll be very disappointed if all of our mid-tier prospects are still around.


Thinking of benefits of trying to make this move earlier.

One that stands out right away is if you are able to use a guy like Hall to create a very reliable 2nd scoring line, you can start cutting down minutes for McDrai ASAP, instead of going months longer playing them 22+ in every close game. If they keep that up all the way to the deadline, you're starting to run the risk that even if you make the playoffs, they'll have nothing left for them. Obviously you put them at a higher risk of injury too.

Another is the time to develop chemistry and for the coach to figure out what he has. Lots of times guys brought in at the deadline never get enough time to catch up with new systems, or to find chemistry with any linemates.

And last, just having more time with a better lineup to try to get a better shot of home ice advantage.


Now...if you make that move and things fall apart and you miss playoffs. Well, I think it will finally be time to fire Joey.


The problem of course is cap hit - you trade for someone earlier, we need more cap room...so something's gotta give.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748531 is a reply to message #748529 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 16705
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:22

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:16

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:11

If the Oilers are in a good spot near the deadline, and the stars are healthy, you go for it.

You just never know what will happen next year. The health may not be there, prospects may not pan out. In a year and a half, Nuge is due for a new contract. It's possible he may not be an Oiler and we are left with an inferior replacement. There are always going to he reasons it's not ideal to go for it. But we literally have the best two players in the game right now. Seems as good as any year to go for it should we maintain our position.

Adding a couple wingers and a defenseman would get us a lot closer.

I'll be very disappointed if we have our first round pick after a playoff performance. I'll be very disappointed if all of our mid-tier prospects are still around.


Thinking of benefits of trying to make this move earlier.

One that stands out right away is if you are able to use a guy like Hall to create a very reliable 2nd scoring line, you can start cutting down minutes for McDrai ASAP, instead of going months longer playing them 22+ in every close game. If they keep that up all the way to the deadline, you're starting to run the risk that even if you make the playoffs, they'll have nothing left for them. Obviously you put them at a higher risk of injury too.

Another is the time to develop chemistry and for the coach to figure out what he has. Lots of times guys brought in at the deadline never get enough time to catch up with new systems, or to find chemistry with any linemates.

And last, just having more time with a better lineup to try to get a better shot of home ice advantage.


Now...if you make that move and things fall apart and you miss playoffs. Well, I think it will finally be time to fire Joey.


The problem of course is cap hit - you trade for someone earlier, we need more cap room...so something's gotta give.



I wonder why we aren't putting Brodziak on LTIR. That should give us ~1M to start with. Got 8 D on the roster now, demote Manning for another 1.1M. Russell or Gags probably are the main guys to pick from to try to open the remaining needed space.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748534 is a reply to message #748531 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 13641
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:35

Adam wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:22

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:16

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:11

If the Oilers are in a good spot near the deadline, and the stars are healthy, you go for it.

You just never know what will happen next year. The health may not be there, prospects may not pan out. In a year and a half, Nuge is due for a new contract. It's possible he may not be an Oiler and we are left with an inferior replacement. There are always going to he reasons it's not ideal to go for it. But we literally have the best two players in the game right now. Seems as good as any year to go for it should we maintain our position.

Adding a couple wingers and a defenseman would get us a lot closer.

I'll be very disappointed if we have our first round pick after a playoff performance. I'll be very disappointed if all of our mid-tier prospects are still around.


Thinking of benefits of trying to make this move earlier.

One that stands out right away is if you are able to use a guy like Hall to create a very reliable 2nd scoring line, you can start cutting down minutes for McDrai ASAP, instead of going months longer playing them 22+ in every close game. If they keep that up all the way to the deadline, you're starting to run the risk that even if you make the playoffs, they'll have nothing left for them. Obviously you put them at a higher risk of injury too.

Another is the time to develop chemistry and for the coach to figure out what he has. Lots of times guys brought in at the deadline never get enough time to catch up with new systems, or to find chemistry with any linemates.

And last, just having more time with a better lineup to try to get a better shot of home ice advantage.


Now...if you make that move and things fall apart and you miss playoffs. Well, I think it will finally be time to fire Joey.


The problem of course is cap hit - you trade for someone earlier, we need more cap room...so something's gotta give.



I wonder why we aren't putting Brodziak on LTIR. That should give us ~1M to start with. Got 8 D on the roster now, demote Manning for another 1.1M. Russell or Gags probably are the main guys to pick from to try to open the remaining needed space.


Can we do that retroactively if we need the room? It does look on CapFriendly like he's on injured reserve - I don't fully understand the difference between that and LTIR.

Manning on the roster all year's cost us a little more, and the $4.88MM of dead cap space isn't awesome either.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748537 is a reply to message #748534 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 16705
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:45

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:35

Adam wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:22

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:16

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:11

If the Oilers are in a good spot near the deadline, and the stars are healthy, you go for it.

You just never know what will happen next year. The health may not be there, prospects may not pan out. In a year and a half, Nuge is due for a new contract. It's possible he may not be an Oiler and we are left with an inferior replacement. There are always going to he reasons it's not ideal to go for it. But we literally have the best two players in the game right now. Seems as good as any year to go for it should we maintain our position.

Adding a couple wingers and a defenseman would get us a lot closer.

I'll be very disappointed if we have our first round pick after a playoff performance. I'll be very disappointed if all of our mid-tier prospects are still around.


Thinking of benefits of trying to make this move earlier.

One that stands out right away is if you are able to use a guy like Hall to create a very reliable 2nd scoring line, you can start cutting down minutes for McDrai ASAP, instead of going months longer playing them 22+ in every close game. If they keep that up all the way to the deadline, you're starting to run the risk that even if you make the playoffs, they'll have nothing left for them. Obviously you put them at a higher risk of injury too.

Another is the time to develop chemistry and for the coach to figure out what he has. Lots of times guys brought in at the deadline never get enough time to catch up with new systems, or to find chemistry with any linemates.

And last, just having more time with a better lineup to try to get a better shot of home ice advantage.


Now...if you make that move and things fall apart and you miss playoffs. Well, I think it will finally be time to fire Joey.


The problem of course is cap hit - you trade for someone earlier, we need more cap room...so something's gotta give.



I wonder why we aren't putting Brodziak on LTIR. That should give us ~1M to start with. Got 8 D on the roster now, demote Manning for another 1.1M. Russell or Gags probably are the main guys to pick from to try to open the remaining needed space.


Can we do that retroactively if we need the room? It does look on CapFriendly like he's on injured reserve - I don't fully understand the difference between that and LTIR.

Manning on the roster all year's cost us a little more, and the $4.88MM of dead cap space isn't awesome either.


I think IR saves no cap space, only a 23 man roster spot. So Brodziak is still eating up 1.15M of cap space. I can't tell if there is any cap advantage to delaying a guy going onto LTIR. I think he can only ever open 1.15M of LTIR space.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748546 is a reply to message #748537 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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Larsson + JP + condition 1st if he re-signs for Hall

I think that makes sense for both teams. It's a decient return for pending UFA.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748530 is a reply to message #748527 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If the cap space is there, I would do it earlier too. I imagine NJ isn't interested though. There will be way more suitors driving up the price at the deadline as more pro-rated cap space becomes available.

If Holland can offload the Russell contract, it would solve a lot of problems.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748532 is a reply to message #748530 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:29

If the cap space is there, I would do it earlier too. I imagine NJ isn't interested though. There will be way more suitors driving up the price at the deadline as more pro-rated cap space becomes available.

If Holland can offload the Russell contract, it would solve a lot of problems.


Dang it would be nice if some team was out there desperately searching for a pure shot blocker right now :)


Gotta say, this Hall talk with Oilers fans is pretty funny

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748533 is a reply to message #748530 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 10:29

If the cap space is there, I would do it earlier too. I imagine NJ isn't interested though. There will be way more suitors driving up the price at the deadline as more pro-rated cap space becomes available.

If Holland can offload the Russell contract, it would solve a lot of problems.


The biggest problem for New Jersey is the perception of giving up on the season. There's a risk in waiting until the 11th hour to do a deal - teams may find other solutions and you never want to be the last one standing because then you get can get stuck.

To an extent, you want to play some chicken with the deadline, because you want as many suitors as possible, but everyone knows as you get close to the end that if you fail to trade the player, you're going to watch an all-star leave for nothing - and that can be fatal to your career as a GM.

It's Taylor Hall - so you should be able to hold the auction whenever you want it, with only cap considerations making teams bow out if you trade him early. But if you're throwing in the towel on the season, then you should be willing to take a bad contract back, so long as it is expiring, or maybe you keep some of Hall's salary for the rest of this year - so long as the return is worth it.

I would not trade Bouchard or Bear as part of a Hall deal, but virtually any other prospect or pick I'd make available. Broberg is the toughest one to part with in that group - and maybe I don't agree to that unless I have an extension and cap assistance, but even there, I would strongly consider it.

I'd prefer to keep Gagner, as the team lacks offensive options and I still think he can provide some, but he and Manning are the most likely to go to clear additional cap space if needed. I'd love to see Russell go, but that's a tough sell for Jersey who'd need to keep him an extra year.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748574 is a reply to message #748533 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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I think my offer would look like this:

JP
Samorukov
2020 2nd round pick
Conditional 2021 1st if Hall signs an extension

Hall with enough salary retained to fit him under our cap.




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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748577 is a reply to message #748574 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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It's going to be interesting to see what kind of contract Hall gets.

In his last 5 seasons, he's only exceeded 60 points twice. He's a great player when he plays, but he's a glass cannon.

He will turn 29 early into year one of his next deal. I'm honestly not sure that he's the right guy to sign if he's not taking a shorter term or a heavy discount.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748578 is a reply to message #748577 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 14:54


He will turn 29 early into year one of his next deal. I'm honestly not sure that he's the right guy to sign if he's not taking a shorter term or a heavy discount.


This is a great point. Hall will be looking for one last big contract. I wouldn't do any sort of 7-8 year deal with him. 4 years would be nice, and might fit our window and young D development curve. I wonder what his market value will actually be? He's a winger, not a center and he's a left shot. He's never been beyond the first round of the playoffs (did NJ even win a playoff game that year?). History would suggest he's coming out of his prime soon, and he's had some hard miles. Could he see a big drop off over the next few years? He does have a Hart trophy, he's fast, and he can score 5 on 5. He's also never played on a team with the leagues 2 top scorers, meaning he won't have to carry the team on his back like he's had to his entire career. That might bode well for his style of play.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748582 is a reply to message #748578 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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jds308 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 16:21

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 14:54


He will turn 29 early into year one of his next deal. I'm honestly not sure that he's the right guy to sign if he's not taking a shorter term or a heavy discount.


This is a great point. Hall will be looking for one last big contract. I wouldn't do any sort of 7-8 year deal with him. 4 years would be nice, and might fit our window and young D development curve. I wonder what his market value will actually be? He's a winger, not a center and he's a left shot. He's never been beyond the first round of the playoffs (did NJ even win a playoff game that year?). History would suggest he's coming out of his prime soon, and he's had some hard miles. Could he see a big drop off over the next few years? He does have a Hart trophy, he's fast, and he can score 5 on 5. He's also never played on a team with the leagues 2 top scorers, meaning he won't have to carry the team on his back like he's had to his entire career. That might bode well for his style of play.


Injuries are the x-factor, but skilled wingers don't tend to drop off as quickly as power forwards. The miles just aren't as hard when you're not pinballing off everything.

I still am leery about any long deal for a player going in to his 30s, but whoever signs Hall is going to sign a long-term deal, or they're going to pay for it with higher dollars on a shorter deal.

The Oilers need a player who can make that 2nd line with Nugent-Hopkins go. Neal's been adequate at best and might be much better served as a third liner with net-front PP duties. Getting a high level talent would push everyone on the wings down a notch and that would make this team look a whole heck of a lot better.

It doesn't have to be Hall, but I don't think there's a lot of other options who are superior, and I don't like the odds that Benson or Yamamoto are ever that guy...they might be depth NHLers, but I don't think they'll push anything close to 60 points in any NHL season ever...and maybe not in their entire careers. I might gamble that the end of the Hall contract sucks but that in the short-term he makes the team much better, and helps us to be truly competitive (as we likely would have been if we hadn't traded him for a defensive defenceman in the first place).



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748583 is a reply to message #748582 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 17:34

jds308 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 16:21

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 14:54


He will turn 29 early into year one of his next deal. I'm honestly not sure that he's the right guy to sign if he's not taking a shorter term or a heavy discount.


This is a great point. Hall will be looking for one last big contract. I wouldn't do any sort of 7-8 year deal with him. 4 years would be nice, and might fit our window and young D development curve. I wonder what his market value will actually be? He's a winger, not a center and he's a left shot. He's never been beyond the first round of the playoffs (did NJ even win a playoff game that year?). History would suggest he's coming out of his prime soon, and he's had some hard miles. Could he see a big drop off over the next few years? He does have a Hart trophy, he's fast, and he can score 5 on 5. He's also never played on a team with the leagues 2 top scorers, meaning he won't have to carry the team on his back like he's had to his entire career. That might bode well for his style of play.


Injuries are the x-factor, but skilled wingers don't tend to drop off as quickly as power forwards. The miles just aren't as hard when you're not pinballing off everything.

I still am leery about any long deal for a player going in to his 30s, but whoever signs Hall is going to sign a long-term deal, or they're going to pay for it with higher dollars on a shorter deal.

The Oilers need a player who can make that 2nd line with Nugent-Hopkins go. Neal's been adequate at best and might be much better served as a third liner with net-front PP duties. Getting a high level talent would push everyone on the wings down a notch and that would make this team look a whole heck of a lot better.

It doesn't have to be Hall, but I don't think there's a lot of other options who are superior, and I don't like the odds that Benson or Yamamoto are ever that guy...they might be depth NHLers, but I don't think they'll push anything close to 60 points in any NHL season ever...and maybe not in their entire careers. I might gamble that the end of the Hall contract sucks but that in the short-term he makes the team much better, and helps us to be truly competitive (as we likely would have been if we hadn't traded him for a defensive defenceman in the first place).


Gotta think Hall's endurance would improve significantly if he became a consistent 2nd line guy on a team. He has been killing himself as the only guy on his teams that can consistently do anything offensively almost his entire career.

Only time that wasn't the case, he did falter here for half a season. But, 4 years later, now in the back half of his career, if he's not willing to do whatever is asked of him for a shot to win, then he may never be.

[Updated on: Tue, 03 December 2019 17:44]


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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748585 is a reply to message #748583 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 17:42


But, 4 years later, now in the back half of his career


Man, this team has been so bad for so long...




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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748595 is a reply to message #748585 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I would not be trading Bear at all. He's a legit top 4, right shot dman that is young. I would not trade one of Bouchard or Broberg to get Hall. I think they would regret it if they did. I am very wary of trading Samorukov. He's in his first pro year but I have yet to hear anything but really good things. But you have to trade some kind of prospect I would assume. I also do not trade for Hall as a rental. I would want to talk to him and find out if he will resign and if it's a Stone situation, then maybe I try for him.

For a contract, I would not give him a long term deal. He will be 29, that isn't young. So 3, maybe 4 years max. People are going to scoff at me but I don't give him more than Leon. Leon is a far better, more important player than Hall in my opinion. So I would talk to him prior to pulling the trigger on a trade and be plain with him. If he wants to come back to where he started and help right the wrong of him being traded. If he wants to come and play with 2 of the best players in the world, be in the playoffs year after year on the team that drafted him and go for cups, then the max is 8.5 for this many years. If he wants more money, it won't be in Edmonton. I have no doubt in my mind that if a Hall chases the money, he will get it and some will regret it big time.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 December 2019 08:29]


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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748599 is a reply to message #748595 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 09:26

I would not be trading Bear at all. He's a legit top 4, right shot dman that is young. I would not trade one of Bouchard or Broberg to get Hall. I think they would regret it if they did. I am very wary of trading Samorukov. He's in his first pro year but I have yet to hear anything but really good things. But you have to trade some kind of prospect I would assume. I also do not trade for Hall as a rental. I would want to talk to him and find out if he will resign and if it's a Stone situation, then maybe I try for him.

For a contract, I would not give him a long term deal. He will be 29, that isn't young. So 3, maybe 4 years max. People are going to scoff at me but I don't give him more than Leon. Leon is a far better, more important player than Hall in my opinion. So I would talk to him prior to pulling the trigger on a trade and be plain with him. If he wants to come back to where he started and help right the wrong of him being traded. If he wants to come and play with 2 of the best players in the world, be in the playoffs year after year on the team that drafted him and go for cups, then the max is 8.5 for this many years. If he wants more money, it won't be in Edmonton. I have no doubt in my mind that if a Hall chases the money, he will get it and some will regret it big time.


Absolutely. If... IF he comes back to Edmonton, it would have to be for no more than Leon’s contract. Thing with that is, someone will give him a double digit almost assuredly come July 1, which he and his agent are aware of. The thing Edmonton or similar team could have in its favour is this is what, Hall’s 10th season?? He’s played playoff hockey one season... 5 games. Chances are if he’s taking 10+ mil on his next contract it could very well be with a team on the outside looking in come April.

He’s a pro. (I assume) Hall wants to win. A part of me thinks we have a chance to see him back here. He’s good friends with Darnell and Nuge. The team looks to be better, 97 and 29 are just entering their prime... I truly think he could be sold on returning.

Thing is, does Holland want him?



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748602 is a reply to message #748599 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 08:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 09:26

I would not be trading Bear at all. He's a legit top 4, right shot dman that is young. I would not trade one of Bouchard or Broberg to get Hall. I think they would regret it if they did. I am very wary of trading Samorukov. He's in his first pro year but I have yet to hear anything but really good things. But you have to trade some kind of prospect I would assume. I also do not trade for Hall as a rental. I would want to talk to him and find out if he will resign and if it's a Stone situation, then maybe I try for him.

For a contract, I would not give him a long term deal. He will be 29, that isn't young. So 3, maybe 4 years max. People are going to scoff at me but I don't give him more than Leon. Leon is a far better, more important player than Hall in my opinion. So I would talk to him prior to pulling the trigger on a trade and be plain with him. If he wants to come back to where he started and help right the wrong of him being traded. If he wants to come and play with 2 of the best players in the world, be in the playoffs year after year on the team that drafted him and go for cups, then the max is 8.5 for this many years. If he wants more money, it won't be in Edmonton. I have no doubt in my mind that if a Hall chases the money, he will get it and some will regret it big time.


Absolutely. If... IF he comes back to Edmonton, it would have to be for no more than Leon’s contract. Thing with that is, someone will give him a double digit almost assuredly come July 1, which he and his agent are aware of. The thing Edmonton or similar team could have in its favour is this is what, Hall’s 10th season?? He’s played playoff hockey one season... 5 games. Chances are if he’s taking 10+ mil on his next contract it could very well be with a team on the outside looking in come April.

He’s a pro. (I assume) Hall wants to win. A part of me thinks we have a chance to see him back here. He’s good friends with Darnell and Nuge. The team looks to be better, 97 and 29 are just entering their prime... I truly think he could be sold on returning.

Thing is, does Holland want him?

For any Hall trade, if I was Holland, I'd have to talk to Hall first to find out if he would resign. I have no doubt that when Vegas traded for Stone, they knew he was resigning. So I would want to know what Hall's intention is. If he plans to see what is out there because he's talked about what Tavares did, I don't do a trade. If he says he's resign but his number is above Leon's, I don't do the trade either. Leon at the end of this season might be a top 5 player in the NHL. So I tell him they are building a winning team in Edmonton, and he can't go past Leon's number. Then you can spout off the last 5 seasons and Leon's numbers are superior. As of today, Leon has 353 pts, Hall has 270. After this season, Leon's last 2 seasons will probably double Hall's. Now Hall got hurt last year for a big chunk but there is another argument point. Leon stays healthy, Hall does not. Leon can play center or wing, Hall wing. Leon plays all special teams, Hall only on the PP.

The one selling point Hall has is the MVP. Well good for him, that is why you would consider giving him close to Leon money. If he didn't win the MVP, he'd get less because he gets hurt a lot, his production over a 5 year span isn't close and his teams don't win. Even for playoffs, Leon has more games and had better production.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748609 is a reply to message #748595 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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I just wrote and accidentally deleted a long post looking at the previous defence cohort assembled between 2010-14 and it's great promise, and how so many of those guys withered on the vine, unable to get playing time here. The Oilers missed out on Gustafsson and, to a point, Oesterle who are real NHL players because the farm team was jam-packed with young defencemen who couldn't get enough development time, and almost all of whom were healthy scratched several times in the AHL.

The team playing Brad Hunt for the bulk of the PP minutes for three seasons didn't help, nor did demotions of veteran defence and the trade for Reinhart who just added another body to an already over-crowded defence.

While we did trade three of them eventually (Marincin, Gernat and Davidson) and while we even got NHLers back in those trades (or at least a pick that immediately was traded for an NHLer in the case of Marincin), their were a decent number of these guys who would have had much greater value had they been moved earlier.

The current cohort has already seen Piagin and Marino leave because it's too crowded. I worry we are going to see the same with Lagesson and Samorukov.

There's limited space on a team's development schedule - AHL coaches want to win, so they have limited patience for rookies and youngsters, and there's only so much ice time to go around - and even less special teams ice time.

I think the lessons of the previous cohort should teach us that we need to decide early who we believe will be the best fits and the most likely to make the jump to the NHL with the Oilers. Anyone else has to be considered trade bait - even if only to upgrade the forward prospect ranks (which are still really thin). If there's a chance to get a star player by giving up a couple of these good prospects? I think you need to make it happen and it would be a mistake to hold off because the fourth or fifth best defenceman prospect has some real promise - if he can ever get any icetime.

The longer they're with us - if we aren't playing them in prime roles, the less valuable these guys will be. So make decisions, and live with them.

(The other post was so much better and went so much deeper in to this, but I really can't do it over this morning! ARGH.)



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748611 is a reply to message #748609 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 10:10

I just wrote and accidentally deleted a long post looking at the previous defence cohort assembled between 2010-14 and it's great promise, and how so many of those guys withered on the vine, unable to get playing time here. The Oilers missed out on Gustafsson and, to a point, Oesterle who are real NHL players because the farm team was jam-packed with young defencemen who couldn't get enough development time, and almost all of whom were healthy scratched several times in the AHL.

The team playing Brad Hunt for the bulk of the PP minutes for three seasons didn't help, nor did demotions of veteran defence and the trade for Reinhart who just added another body to an already over-crowded defence.

While we did trade three of them eventually (Marincin, Gernat and Davidson) and while we even got NHLers back in those trades (or at least a pick that immediately was traded for an NHLer in the case of Marincin), their were a decent number of these guys who would have had much greater value had they been moved earlier.

The current cohort has already seen Piagin and Marino leave because it's too crowded. I worry we are going to see the same with Lagesson and Samorukov.

There's limited space on a team's development schedule - AHL coaches want to win, so they have limited patience for rookies and youngsters, and there's only so much ice time to go around - and even less special teams ice time.

I think the lessons of the previous cohort should teach us that we need to decide early who we believe will be the best fits and the most likely to make the jump to the NHL with the Oilers. Anyone else has to be considered trade bait - even if only to upgrade the forward prospect ranks (which are still really thin). If there's a chance to get a star player by giving up a couple of these good prospects? I think you need to make it happen and it would be a mistake to hold off because the fourth or fifth best defenceman prospect has some real promise - if he can ever get any icetime.

The longer they're with us - if we aren't playing them in prime roles, the less valuable these guys will be. So make decisions, and live with them.

(The other post was so much better and went so much deeper in to this, but I really can't do it over this morning! ARGH.)

When is Bakersfield retiring Brad Hunt's number anyways?



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748617 is a reply to message #748611 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 11:53

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 10:10

I just wrote and accidentally deleted a long post looking at the previous defence cohort assembled between 2010-14 and it's great promise, and how so many of those guys withered on the vine, unable to get playing time here. The Oilers missed out on Gustafsson and, to a point, Oesterle who are real NHL players because the farm team was jam-packed with young defencemen who couldn't get enough development time, and almost all of whom were healthy scratched several times in the AHL.

The team playing Brad Hunt for the bulk of the PP minutes for three seasons didn't help, nor did demotions of veteran defence and the trade for Reinhart who just added another body to an already over-crowded defence.

While we did trade three of them eventually (Marincin, Gernat and Davidson) and while we even got NHLers back in those trades (or at least a pick that immediately was traded for an NHLer in the case of Marincin), their were a decent number of these guys who would have had much greater value had they been moved earlier.

The current cohort has already seen Piagin and Marino leave because it's too crowded. I worry we are going to see the same with Lagesson and Samorukov.

There's limited space on a team's development schedule - AHL coaches want to win, so they have limited patience for rookies and youngsters, and there's only so much ice time to go around - and even less special teams ice time.

I think the lessons of the previous cohort should teach us that we need to decide early who we believe will be the best fits and the most likely to make the jump to the NHL with the Oilers. Anyone else has to be considered trade bait - even if only to upgrade the forward prospect ranks (which are still really thin). If there's a chance to get a star player by giving up a couple of these good prospects? I think you need to make it happen and it would be a mistake to hold off because the fourth or fifth best defenceman prospect has some real promise - if he can ever get any icetime.

The longer they're with us - if we aren't playing them in prime roles, the less valuable these guys will be. So make decisions, and live with them.

(The other post was so much better and went so much deeper in to this, but I really can't do it over this morning! ARGH.)

When is Bakersfield retiring Brad Hunt's number anyways?


Probably the game after the Keegan Lowe retirement



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748619 is a reply to message #748617 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 2240
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 11:16

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 11:53

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 10:10

I just wrote and accidentally deleted a long post looking at the previous defence cohort assembled between 2010-14 and it's great promise, and how so many of those guys withered on the vine, unable to get playing time here. The Oilers missed out on Gustafsson and, to a point, Oesterle who are real NHL players because the farm team was jam-packed with young defencemen who couldn't get enough development time, and almost all of whom were healthy scratched several times in the AHL.

The team playing Brad Hunt for the bulk of the PP minutes for three seasons didn't help, nor did demotions of veteran defence and the trade for Reinhart who just added another body to an already over-crowded defence.

While we did trade three of them eventually (Marincin, Gernat and Davidson) and while we even got NHLers back in those trades (or at least a pick that immediately was traded for an NHLer in the case of Marincin), their were a decent number of these guys who would have had much greater value had they been moved earlier.

The current cohort has already seen Piagin and Marino leave because it's too crowded. I worry we are going to see the same with Lagesson and Samorukov.

There's limited space on a team's development schedule - AHL coaches want to win, so they have limited patience for rookies and youngsters, and there's only so much ice time to go around - and even less special teams ice time.

I think the lessons of the previous cohort should teach us that we need to decide early who we believe will be the best fits and the most likely to make the jump to the NHL with the Oilers. Anyone else has to be considered trade bait - even if only to upgrade the forward prospect ranks (which are still really thin). If there's a chance to get a star player by giving up a couple of these good prospects? I think you need to make it happen and it would be a mistake to hold off because the fourth or fifth best defenceman prospect has some real promise - if he can ever get any icetime.

The longer they're with us - if we aren't playing them in prime roles, the less valuable these guys will be. So make decisions, and live with them.

(The other post was so much better and went so much deeper in to this, but I really can't do it over this morning! ARGH.)

When is Bakersfield retiring Brad Hunt's number anyways?


Probably the game after the Keegan Lowe retirement

I imagine Keegan Lowe one day makes the oilers. We go on to win 5 stanley cups. Kevin refuses to speak with him at family gathering because he doesn't know enough about winning.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748620 is a reply to message #748619 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 4258
Registered: May 2009
Location: Saskatoon

4 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 12:23

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 11:16

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 11:53

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 December 2019 10:10

I just wrote and accidentally deleted a long post looking at the previous defence cohort assembled between 2010-14 and it's great promise, and how so many of those guys withered on the vine, unable to get playing time here. The Oilers missed out on Gustafsson and, to a point, Oesterle who are real NHL players because the farm team was jam-packed with young defencemen who couldn't get enough development time, and almost all of whom were healthy scratched several times in the AHL.

The team playing Brad Hunt for the bulk of the PP minutes for three seasons didn't help, nor did demotions of veteran defence and the trade for Reinhart who just added another body to an already over-crowded defence.

While we did trade three of them eventually (Marincin, Gernat and Davidson) and while we even got NHLers back in those trades (or at least a pick that immediately was traded for an NHLer in the case of Marincin), their were a decent number of these guys who would have had much greater value had they been moved earlier.

The current cohort has already seen Piagin and Marino leave because it's too crowded. I worry we are going to see the same with Lagesson and Samorukov.

There's limited space on a team's development schedule - AHL coaches want to win, so they have limited patience for rookies and youngsters, and there's only so much ice time to go around - and even less special teams ice time.

I think the lessons of the previous cohort should teach us that we need to decide early who we believe will be the best fits and the most likely to make the jump to the NHL with the Oilers. Anyone else has to be considered trade bait - even if only to upgrade the forward prospect ranks (which are still really thin). If there's a chance to get a star player by giving up a couple of these good prospects? I think you need to make it happen and it would be a mistake to hold off because the fourth or fifth best defenceman prospect has some real promise - if he can ever get any icetime.

The longer they're with us - if we aren't playing them in prime roles, the less valuable these guys will be. So make decisions, and live with them.

(The other post was so much better and went so much deeper in to this, but I really can't do it over this morning! ARGH.)

When is Bakersfield retiring Brad Hunt's number anyways?


Probably the game after the Keegan Lowe retirement

I imagine Keegan Lowe one day makes the oilers. We go on to win 5 stanley cups. Kevin refuses to speak with him at family gathering because he doesn't know enough about winning.


You’re probably right. And he likely is the missing piece this team needs to take the next step. One Lowe away from going high.



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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748625 is a reply to message #748491 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 13641
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

The intrepid reporter Jim Matheson is on the case for us here:

Quote:

Jack Michaels
@EdmontonJack

After a slew of Babcock-related questions,
@NHLbyMatty
hits Oiler GM Ken Holland with “what do you have to give up to get a high-scoring winger?...”

Holland: “you’re funny.”



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The Haul for Hall [message #748639 is a reply to message #748491 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 4258
Registered: May 2009
Location: Saskatoon

4 Cups

From 31 thoughts;

7. The Taylor Hall trade talks have intensified, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen at this time.

“He’s trying,” another GM said of Shero.

The Devils have made it clear they want first-rounders (although they are willing to discuss conditional situations, depending on the acquiring team’s ability to re-sign Hall or playoff results) and/or high-level prospects who are ready to play. They badly need defence, which is why there’s a lot of focus on Colorado as the perfect trade partner. The Avalanche have plenty of defensive prospects and think they can win. Several teams believe Arizona is making a serious effort. Hall is what they need, too. It’s believed Dallas and St. Louis are among other pursuers.


8. I do think Edmonton’s interested, but there’s a limit. I’m not convinced the Oilers will pay what New Jersey wants.


First rounders. Plural. I get asking for the moon, but for an expiring contract (!), that won’t be paid, Ray.

Given our depth on the left, I’d be okay with Jones being the prospect centerpiece along with a conditional 1st with Hall resigning.



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