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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747713 is a reply to message #747711 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:36

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:15

Neal had 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons but Peter's decided he didn't like Neal and had no use for him pretty early last season. So he gets his GM to trade him. Rather than just dump Neal for a pick so while you get nothing for the player, you at least get the asset of cap space. They overreact to the AVs whipping them in the playoff, think they lost because they weren't tough enough when in reality it's because their best players didn't play well. So they trade Neal for Lucic. Lucic is a goon, who's skills are gone and who's no longer suited for the NHL.

So they downgrade their team skill, get a player who can't play in the NHL anymore, a player who you basically have to play because he makes too much money to sit and they don't even get cap space. That's how you build a losing team.


I don't doubt that Neal was off his game last year for Calgary. I know flames players/managers/coaches have no experience with playoffs, but there is pretty clear history what a run to the finals does to players. Neal had 2 runs to the finals the last 2 years. And he had to move both summers. He basically went 2 summers in a row not having any opportunity to train properly. He was set up to have a weak season in his first for the Flames. They just had to wait it out and get more from him this year. Instead, they traded for a guy that fell completely off a cliff 2 seasons prior with zero excuses for his play aside from him just sucking.

There is a good chance he wouldn't be scoring like he is if he was still a Flame but I would have put money down he could have gotten 10+ goals for the Flames. I would have guessed 13-14. I don't even know if Lucic will get 5 goals. He's even worse than he was with the Oilers. They even honored his No move. So they have to protect him for expansion.

Neal is on a 44 goal pace. I don't think he gets that but there are 56 games left, chances are he's going to get at least 10 more goals in 56 games. I am going to guess that Lucic manages to fluke in a couple of goals. My guess is he gets 3 for the year. I think it's a slam dunk that Neal outscores Lucic by over 20 goals. As a team, you can't make up that many goals.


If I'm in management with the Flames, I'm starting to have the conversation with Lucic about retirement as the season moves to a close...maybe he's got a nagging injury that's going to take him the whole rest of that contract to recover from? I'm making clear that if he doesn't, his career will end embarrassingly as a healthy scratch for weeks on end since he can't be demoted to the AHL.

It would not surprise me in the least if he develops an allergy to hockey equipment after this season.

For what it's worth, I have the over/under at 2.5 goals for the season. Really weak shooting stats, and cratering shooting percentage equals no threat to score. He's actually shooting more now than he did last year though...so who knows...maybe he can beat Toby Rieder's record from last year!!!

Lucic will waive to be available for Seattle, who will need a couple boat anchor contracts to reach the floor. Then, after a few goodbye laps close to his hometown, he will become allergic to hockey tape and go on IR forever.

Don't you think Seattle will try to be like Vegas? They will want to be good right away.

Vegas didn't take any Lucic's. The bad contracts they did take were LTIR guys. Lucic doesn't get hurt so you'd have to play him.

Nope I think Seattle will be AWFUL. Vegas was a fluke. Teams made some terrible decisions that won't be repeated and the Knights got incredibly lucky with several players they picked. We are going to be gifted 10 standings points a year for the foreseeable future.

6 to 8 points.

If everyone is getting 6 free points, no one is getting anything.


Watch them bounce us to the Metro division to even things out...



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747714 is a reply to message #747710 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:15

Neal had 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons but Peter's decided he didn't like Neal and had no use for him pretty early last season. So he gets his GM to trade him. Rather than just dump Neal for a pick so while you get nothing for the player, you at least get the asset of cap space. They overreact to the AVs whipping them in the playoff, think they lost because they weren't tough enough when in reality it's because their best players didn't play well. So they trade Neal for Lucic. Lucic is a goon, who's skills are gone and who's no longer suited for the NHL.

So they downgrade their team skill, get a player who can't play in the NHL anymore, a player who you basically have to play because he makes too much money to sit and they don't even get cap space. That's how you build a losing team.


I don't doubt that Neal was off his game last year for Calgary. I know flames players/managers/coaches have no experience with playoffs, but there is pretty clear history what a run to the finals does to players. Neal had 2 runs to the finals the last 2 years. And he had to move both summers. He basically went 2 summers in a row not having any opportunity to train properly. He was set up to have a weak season in his first for the Flames. They just had to wait it out and get more from him this year. Instead, they traded for a guy that fell completely off a cliff 2 seasons prior with zero excuses for his play aside from him just sucking.

There is a good chance he wouldn't be scoring like he is if he was still a Flame but I would have put money down he could have gotten 10+ goals for the Flames. I would have guessed 13-14. I don't even know if Lucic will get 5 goals. He's even worse than he was with the Oilers. They even honored his No move. So they have to protect him for expansion.

Neal is on a 44 goal pace. I don't think he gets that but there are 56 games left, chances are he's going to get at least 10 more goals in 56 games. I am going to guess that Lucic manages to fluke in a couple of goals. My guess is he gets 3 for the year. I think it's a slam dunk that Neal outscores Lucic by over 20 goals. As a team, you can't make up that many goals.


If I'm in management with the Flames, I'm starting to have the conversation with Lucic about retirement as the season moves to a close...maybe he's got a nagging injury that's going to take him the whole rest of that contract to recover from? I'm making clear that if he doesn't, his career will end embarrassingly as a healthy scratch for weeks on end since he can't be demoted to the AHL.

It would not surprise me in the least if he develops an allergy to hockey equipment after this season.

For what it's worth, I have the over/under at 2.5 goals for the season. Really weak shooting stats, and cratering shooting percentage equals no threat to score. He's actually shooting more now than he did last year though...so who knows...maybe he can beat Toby Rieder's record from last year!!!

Lucic will waive to be available for Seattle, who will need a couple boat anchor contracts to reach the floor. Then, after a few goodbye laps close to his hometown, he will become allergic to hockey tape and go on IR forever.

Don't you think Seattle will try to be like Vegas? They will want to be good right away.

Vegas didn't take any Lucic's. The bad contracts they did take were LTIR guys. Lucic doesn't get hurt so you'd have to play him.

Nope I think Seattle will be AWFUL. Vegas was a fluke. Teams made some terrible decisions that won't be repeated and the Knights got incredibly lucky with several players they picked. We are going to be gifted 10 standings points a year for the foreseeable future.

I agree, Vegas got gifted a team but the other GM's making mistakes. But Seattle will try to mimic Vegas which was my point and they won't intentionally try to be bad. If you are taking Lucic, you are trying to be bad.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747715 is a reply to message #747714 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:52

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:15

Neal had 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons but Peter's decided he didn't like Neal and had no use for him pretty early last season. So he gets his GM to trade him. Rather than just dump Neal for a pick so while you get nothing for the player, you at least get the asset of cap space. They overreact to the AVs whipping them in the playoff, think they lost because they weren't tough enough when in reality it's because their best players didn't play well. So they trade Neal for Lucic. Lucic is a goon, who's skills are gone and who's no longer suited for the NHL.

So they downgrade their team skill, get a player who can't play in the NHL anymore, a player who you basically have to play because he makes too much money to sit and they don't even get cap space. That's how you build a losing team.


I don't doubt that Neal was off his game last year for Calgary. I know flames players/managers/coaches have no experience with playoffs, but there is pretty clear history what a run to the finals does to players. Neal had 2 runs to the finals the last 2 years. And he had to move both summers. He basically went 2 summers in a row not having any opportunity to train properly. He was set up to have a weak season in his first for the Flames. They just had to wait it out and get more from him this year. Instead, they traded for a guy that fell completely off a cliff 2 seasons prior with zero excuses for his play aside from him just sucking.

There is a good chance he wouldn't be scoring like he is if he was still a Flame but I would have put money down he could have gotten 10+ goals for the Flames. I would have guessed 13-14. I don't even know if Lucic will get 5 goals. He's even worse than he was with the Oilers. They even honored his No move. So they have to protect him for expansion.

Neal is on a 44 goal pace. I don't think he gets that but there are 56 games left, chances are he's going to get at least 10 more goals in 56 games. I am going to guess that Lucic manages to fluke in a couple of goals. My guess is he gets 3 for the year. I think it's a slam dunk that Neal outscores Lucic by over 20 goals. As a team, you can't make up that many goals.


If I'm in management with the Flames, I'm starting to have the conversation with Lucic about retirement as the season moves to a close...maybe he's got a nagging injury that's going to take him the whole rest of that contract to recover from? I'm making clear that if he doesn't, his career will end embarrassingly as a healthy scratch for weeks on end since he can't be demoted to the AHL.

It would not surprise me in the least if he develops an allergy to hockey equipment after this season.

For what it's worth, I have the over/under at 2.5 goals for the season. Really weak shooting stats, and cratering shooting percentage equals no threat to score. He's actually shooting more now than he did last year though...so who knows...maybe he can beat Toby Rieder's record from last year!!!

Lucic will waive to be available for Seattle, who will need a couple boat anchor contracts to reach the floor. Then, after a few goodbye laps close to his hometown, he will become allergic to hockey tape and go on IR forever.

Don't you think Seattle will try to be like Vegas? They will want to be good right away.

Vegas didn't take any Lucic's. The bad contracts they did take were LTIR guys. Lucic doesn't get hurt so you'd have to play him.

Nope I think Seattle will be AWFUL. Vegas was a fluke. Teams made some terrible decisions that won't be repeated and the Knights got incredibly lucky with several players they picked. We are going to be gifted 10 standings points a year for the foreseeable future.

I agree, Vegas got gifted a team but the other GM's making mistakes. But Seattle will try to mimic Vegas which was my point and they won't intentionally try to be bad. If you are taking Lucic, you are trying to be bad.

If we look back I think Vegas was intentionally trying to be bad. The Gm basically said you can keep any player you want if you pay us in other assets. And he loaded up on draft picks. The only thing that may help Seattle not be Thrasher bad is the cap. There may be decent players that teams let slide because of their own incompetence managing salaries. But Seattle will have to look at the players Calgary exposes, of which i expect Lucic to be one, and decide if the dollars toward the cap floor are worth taking him. Especially because he will never play out that contract.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2019 14:07]


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747723 is a reply to message #747715 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 14:03


If we look back I think Vegas was intentionally trying to be bad. The Gm basically said you can keep any player you want if you pay us in other assets. And he loaded up on draft picks. The only thing that may help Seattle not be Thrasher bad is the cap. There may be decent players that teams let slide because of their own incompetence managing salaries. But Seattle will have to look at the players Calgary exposes, of which i expect Lucic to be one, and decide if the dollars toward the cap floor are worth taking him. Especially because he will never play out that contract.


Yep - lightning in a bottle for Vegas, and a perfect storm with a bunch of players who felt slighted - not just for being left unprotected, but actually having your team trade extra to the Knights to ensure they pick you and not, say, Mark Pysyk. And then the tragic shooting, which seemed to really affect and inspire the team.

It also helps that it's Vegas and if you take a bunch of 20-something guys on a trip to Vegas there's a better than normal chance that people skip curfews and have a few drinks...I doubt the opposition players are going to disappear to party as often in Seattle.

I think that Vegas expected that they'd be bad, and that they'd be able to load up on some extra picks with the expiring contracts they took on like Neal and Perron and they could build the team like McPhee built the Capitals - by drafting a lot of players and hoping many of them worked out. Instead, they had an incredible season, which helped a lot of players decide it was a place that they wanted to play (favourable tax rates don't hurt either) and set some expectations from the fan base - so now they have to keep swinging for the fences.

Seattle is much more likely to be terrible, with teams doing less stupid things ahead of that draft. That said, I do think it likely is worth it to trade a draft pick to them to ensure they pick the right player. The Oilers would have been a lot better if they'd given up a third round pick to ensure that Fayne or Pouliot got picked up than to just succumb to losing Reinhart. As much as Reinhart is no real loss, the team had to buy out Pouliot which has enduring issues as the cap hit was spread over four years. There's two more years of $1.3333MM cap hit - which would be massive if it were available for the team this year. That's definitely worth giving up a lottery ticket for.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747725 is a reply to message #747723 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 14:03


If we look back I think Vegas was intentionally trying to be bad. The Gm basically said you can keep any player you want if you pay us in other assets. And he loaded up on draft picks. The only thing that may help Seattle not be Thrasher bad is the cap. There may be decent players that teams let slide because of their own incompetence managing salaries. But Seattle will have to look at the players Calgary exposes, of which i expect Lucic to be one, and decide if the dollars toward the cap floor are worth taking him. Especially because he will never play out that contract.


Yep - lightning in a bottle for Vegas, and a perfect storm with a bunch of players who felt slighted - not just for being left unprotected, but actually having your team trade extra to the Knights to ensure they pick you and not, say, Mark Pysyk. And then the tragic shooting, which seemed to really affect and inspire the team.

It also helps that it's Vegas and if you take a bunch of 20-something guys on a trip to Vegas there's a better than normal chance that people skip curfews and have a few drinks...I doubt the opposition players are going to disappear to party as often in Seattle.

I think that Vegas expected that they'd be bad, and that they'd be able to load up on some extra picks with the expiring contracts they took on like Neal and Perron and they could build the team like McPhee built the Capitals - by drafting a lot of players and hoping many of them worked out. Instead, they had an incredible season, which helped a lot of players decide it was a place that they wanted to play (favourable tax rates don't hurt either) and set some expectations from the fan base - so now they have to keep swinging for the fences.

Seattle is much more likely to be terrible, with teams doing less stupid things ahead of that draft. That said, I do think it likely is worth it to trade a draft pick to them to ensure they pick the right player. The Oilers would have been a lot better if they'd given up a third round pick to ensure that Fayne or Pouliot got picked up than to just succumb to losing Reinhart. As much as Reinhart is no real loss, the team had to buy out Pouliot which has enduring issues as the cap hit was spread over four years. There's two more years of $1.3333MM cap hit - which would be massive if it were available for the team this year. That's definitely worth giving up a lottery ticket for.

I am assuming when Seattle comes in, they will move into the Pacific Division and one of Vegas or Arizona will move to the Central to balance out the divisions. Lucic is going to suck again this year. As he continues to erode and the game continues to move farther away from the likes of him, he will be bad again next year. So he will have 4 consecutive seasons of bad hockey under his belt. When the 21-22 season comes around, Lucic will have that season plus another season left to go on his 5.25 mill contract with the Flames. I have a hard time believing that Seattle will do a division rival a solid, pass up a potential good player or even a good prospect and take Lucic off their hands. Even if the goal is to be bad, no team comes out and tells their fans we plan on sucking for a long time but keep coming to games please. By the time Seattle comes around, Lucic might be so bad, the Flames might only play him in situational games or when injuries happen despite his contract because he's that ineffective and hurts your team so badly. If you take Lucic, you are telling your fan base you want to tank immediately. So unless the Flames thrown in a really good extra asset where it makes it a no brainer to take him, if I was a Seattle fan, I'd be pissed at my team for taking him.

The Flames are starting to struggle to justify his existence and 2 months of the season haven't even passed yet. What will it be like 2 years from now.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747735 is a reply to message #747725 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:26


I am assuming when Seattle comes in, they will move into the Pacific Division and one of Vegas or Arizona will move to the Central to balance out the divisions.


It's public knowledge that Arizona will move to the Central and Seattle will be in the Pacific. I'd be pissed if I was the Coyotes, but I don't think they have much say.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747702 is a reply to message #747699 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:15

Neal had 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons but Peter's decided he didn't like Neal and had no use for him pretty early last season. So he gets his GM to trade him. Rather than just dump Neal for a pick so while you get nothing for the player, you at least get the asset of cap space. They overreact to the AVs whipping them in the playoff, think they lost because they weren't tough enough when in reality it's because their best players didn't play well. So they trade Neal for Lucic. Lucic is a goon, who's skills are gone and who's no longer suited for the NHL.

So they downgrade their team skill, get a player who can't play in the NHL anymore, a player who you basically have to play because he makes too much money to sit and they don't even get cap space. That's how you build a losing team.


I don't doubt that Neal was off his game last year for Calgary. I know flames players/managers/coaches have no experience with playoffs, but there is pretty clear history what a run to the finals does to players. Neal had 2 runs to the finals the last 2 years. And he had to move both summers. He basically went 2 summers in a row not having any opportunity to train properly. He was set up to have a weak season in his first for the Flames. They just had to wait it out and get more from him this year. Instead, they traded for a guy that fell completely off a cliff 2 seasons prior with zero excuses for his play aside from him just sucking.

There is a good chance he wouldn't be scoring like he is if he was still a Flame but I would have put money down he could have gotten 10+ goals for the Flames. I would have guessed 13-14. I don't even know if Lucic will get 5 goals. He's even worse than he was with the Oilers. They even honored his No move. So they have to protect him for expansion.

Neal is on a 44 goal pace. I don't think he gets that but there are 56 games left, chances are he's going to get at least 10 more goals in 56 games. I am going to guess that Lucic manages to fluke in a couple of goals. My guess is he gets 3 for the year. I think it's a slam dunk that Neal outscores Lucic by over 20 goals. As a team, you can't make up that many goals.


If I'm in management with the Flames, I'm starting to have the conversation with Lucic about retirement as the season moves to a close...maybe he's got a nagging injury that's going to take him the whole rest of that contract to recover from? I'm making clear that if he doesn't, his career will end embarrassingly as a healthy scratch for weeks on end since he can't be demoted to the AHL.

It would not surprise me in the least if he develops an allergy to hockey equipment after this season.

For what it's worth, I have the over/under at 2.5 goals for the season. Really weak shooting stats, and cratering shooting percentage equals no threat to score. He's actually shooting more now than he did last year though...so who knows...maybe he can beat Toby Rieder's record from last year!!!

I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2019 13:06]


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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747724 is a reply to message #747702 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747728 is a reply to message #747724 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747731 is a reply to message #747728 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.



"This team needs an enema!"
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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747741 is a reply to message #747731 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747743 is a reply to message #747741 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.


It’s just so hard to prove that someone isn’t hurt. Look at Lupul.

Lucic has played a hard brand of hockey and his career has gone off the ledge. It would be pretty easy to build a case that he’s got some kind of degenerative injury that’s impacting his ability to play the game. As long as he doesn’t sign the year-end physical report though apparently.



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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747745 is a reply to message #747743 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 19:13

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.


It’s just so hard to prove that someone isn’t hurt. Look at Lupul.

Lucic has played a hard brand of hockey and his career has gone off the ledge. It would be pretty easy to build a case that he’s got some kind of degenerative injury that’s impacting his ability to play the game. As long as he doesn’t sign the year-end physical report though apparently.


I just have a hard time seeing Looch play along. Also have a hard time seeing Treliving being as ruthless about bending rules as Bowman and Lucky Lou. For Lupul, I think shutting him up likely involved some threats coming from Lou of what he would do to him if he was back to playing status.

IMO, more likely that Looch tries to force Treliving's hand to get his buyout by leveraging the expansion draft and his NMC. Looch still wants to play I think. He is still in the zone where he blames his environment far more than himself. He has many more summers where he will be optimistic that a slight change up of his training will reverse his fortunes.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2019 19:19]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747755 is a reply to message #747745 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 20:16

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 19:13

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.


It’s just so hard to prove that someone isn’t hurt. Look at Lupul.

Lucic has played a hard brand of hockey and his career has gone off the ledge. It would be pretty easy to build a case that he’s got some kind of degenerative injury that’s impacting his ability to play the game. As long as he doesn’t sign the year-end physical report though apparently.


I just have a hard time seeing Looch play along. Also have a hard time seeing Treliving being as ruthless about bending rules as Bowman and Lucky Lou. For Lupul, I think shutting him up likely involved some threats coming from Lou of what he would do to him if he was back to playing status.

IMO, more likely that Looch tries to force Treliving's hand to get his buyout by leveraging the expansion draft and his NMC. Looch still wants to play I think. He is still in the zone where he blames his environment far more than himself. He has many more summers where he will be optimistic that a slight change up of his training will reverse his fortunes.


It wont take bending of rules or playing along from either Lucic, the Flames or a doctor if the time comes for him to stop playing.
Dont forget that Lucic does actually have Scheuermann's disease. As one ages with that disease it can cause massive complications and pain. His style of play I am sure wont help that.
Whether he plays for pride or money I have no idea. If he decides its time to go, for whatever reason, it will take VERY little to convince a doc that it is pain related and not a made up issue.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 October 2019 08:54

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747758 is a reply to message #747755 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 21:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:12

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 20:16

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 19:13

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.


It’s just so hard to prove that someone isn’t hurt. Look at Lupul.

Lucic has played a hard brand of hockey and his career has gone off the ledge. It would be pretty easy to build a case that he’s got some kind of degenerative injury that’s impacting his ability to play the game. As long as he doesn’t sign the year-end physical report though apparently.


I just have a hard time seeing Looch play along. Also have a hard time seeing Treliving being as ruthless about bending rules as Bowman and Lucky Lou. For Lupul, I think shutting him up likely involved some threats coming from Lou of what he would do to him if he was back to playing status.

IMO, more likely that Looch tries to force Treliving's hand to get his buyout by leveraging the expansion draft and his NMC. Looch still wants to play I think. He is still in the zone where he blames his environment far more than himself. He has many more summers where he will be optimistic that a slight change up of his training will reverse his fortunes.


It wont take bending of rules or playing along from either Lucic, the Flames or a doctor if the time comes for him to stop playing.
Dont forget that Lucic does actually have Scheuermann's disease. As one ages with that disease it can cause massive complications and pain. His style of play I am sure wont help that.
Whether he plays for pride or money I have no idea. If he decides its time to go, for whatever reason, it will take VERY little to convince a doc that it is pain related and not a made up issue.



He has 3 years left on his deal, and there are no signs Scheuermann's is affecting him. He even proudly boasts about his fitness every year and how ready he is and how good he feels. IMO, it will 100% require Lucic to go along with a total lie for him to go on LTIR at any point in the next 3 seasons. Can't just tell a guy that passes all your tests that he has to go on LTIR for made up reasons if he won't carry on the lie for you. Any doctor trying to make that claim would be putting his career on the line if Lucic fought it. The team, if caught trying to cheat the CBA and even worse commit insurance fraud, would be in trouble too. Looch holds the power.

Let's see if he decides to play the winning hand he's been dealt by forcing a buyout this coming summer by refusing to entertaining waiving his NMC for the expansion draft.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 November 2019 21:45]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747765 is a reply to message #747758 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 05:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Isn't the expansion draft in 2021?


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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747769 is a reply to message #747765 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 05:54

Isn't the expansion draft in 2021?


My bad, forgot there is the buyout window early enough in June ahead of the expansion draft. Guess Looch would have to stick it out for 1 more season after this one before the Lames would have to buy him out.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 November 2019 07:53]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747770 is a reply to message #747758 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 22:30

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:12


It wont take bending of rules or playing along from either Lucic, the Flames or a doctor if the time comes for him to stop playing.
Dont forget that Lucic does actually have Scheuermann's disease. As one ages with that disease it can cause massive complications and pain. His style of play I am sure wont help that.
Whether he plays for pride or money I have no idea. If he decides its time to go, for whatever reason, it will take VERY little to convince a doc that it is pain related and not a made up issue.



He has 3 years left on his deal, and there are no signs Scheuermann's is affecting him. He even proudly boasts about his fitness every year and how ready he is and how good he feels. IMO, it will 100% require Lucic to go along with a total lie for him to go on LTIR at any point in the next 3 seasons. Can't just tell a guy that passes all your tests that he has to go on LTIR for made up reasons if he won't carry on the lie for you. Any doctor trying to make that claim would be putting his career on the line if Lucic fought it. The team, if caught trying to cheat the CBA and even worse commit insurance fraud, would be in trouble too. Looch holds the power.

Let's see if he decides to play the winning hand he's been dealt by forcing a buyout this coming summer by refusing to entertaining waiving his NMC for the expansion draft.


I agree with you 100%. One of the keys I mentioned (and in hindsight, could have stressed better) is the "If he decides its time to go" part.

Other than that the Flames are screwed as Looch does indeed hold all the power.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 October 2019 08:54

Your winner and nnnneeeeeeeewwwwwwwww champion...

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747771 is a reply to message #747770 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 07:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 07:54

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 22:30

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:12


It wont take bending of rules or playing along from either Lucic, the Flames or a doctor if the time comes for him to stop playing.
Dont forget that Lucic does actually have Scheuermann's disease. As one ages with that disease it can cause massive complications and pain. His style of play I am sure wont help that.
Whether he plays for pride or money I have no idea. If he decides its time to go, for whatever reason, it will take VERY little to convince a doc that it is pain related and not a made up issue.



He has 3 years left on his deal, and there are no signs Scheuermann's is affecting him. He even proudly boasts about his fitness every year and how ready he is and how good he feels. IMO, it will 100% require Lucic to go along with a total lie for him to go on LTIR at any point in the next 3 seasons. Can't just tell a guy that passes all your tests that he has to go on LTIR for made up reasons if he won't carry on the lie for you. Any doctor trying to make that claim would be putting his career on the line if Lucic fought it. The team, if caught trying to cheat the CBA and even worse commit insurance fraud, would be in trouble too. Looch holds the power.

Let's see if he decides to play the winning hand he's been dealt by forcing a buyout this coming summer by refusing to entertaining waiving his NMC for the expansion draft.


I agree with you 100%. One of the keys I mentioned (and in hindsight, could have stressed better) is the "If he decides its time to go" part.

Other than that the Flames are screwed as Looch does indeed hold all the power.



If Looch has any honour, he will make Flames fans watch him suck for at least as many years as we did :)



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747774 is a reply to message #747758 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:30

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:12

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 20:16

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 19:13

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.


It’s just so hard to prove that someone isn’t hurt. Look at Lupul.

Lucic has played a hard brand of hockey and his career has gone off the ledge. It would be pretty easy to build a case that he’s got some kind of degenerative injury that’s impacting his ability to play the game. As long as he doesn’t sign the year-end physical report though apparently.


I just have a hard time seeing Looch play along. Also have a hard time seeing Treliving being as ruthless about bending rules as Bowman and Lucky Lou. For Lupul, I think shutting him up likely involved some threats coming from Lou of what he would do to him if he was back to playing status.

IMO, more likely that Looch tries to force Treliving's hand to get his buyout by leveraging the expansion draft and his NMC. Looch still wants to play I think. He is still in the zone where he blames his environment far more than himself. He has many more summers where he will be optimistic that a slight change up of his training will reverse his fortunes.


It wont take bending of rules or playing along from either Lucic, the Flames or a doctor if the time comes for him to stop playing.
Dont forget that Lucic does actually have Scheuermann's disease. As one ages with that disease it can cause massive complications and pain. His style of play I am sure wont help that.
Whether he plays for pride or money I have no idea. If he decides its time to go, for whatever reason, it will take VERY little to convince a doc that it is pain related and not a made up issue.



He has 3 years left on his deal, and there are no signs Scheuermann's is affecting him. He even proudly boasts about his fitness every year and how ready he is and how good he feels. IMO, it will 100% require Lucic to go along with a total lie for him to go on LTIR at any point in the next 3 seasons. Can't just tell a guy that passes all your tests that he has to go on LTIR for made up reasons if he won't carry on the lie for you. Any doctor trying to make that claim would be putting his career on the line if Lucic fought it. The team, if caught trying to cheat the CBA and even worse commit insurance fraud, would be in trouble too. Looch holds the power.

Let's see if he decides to play the winning hand he's been dealt by forcing a buyout this coming summer by refusing to entertaining waiving his NMC for the expansion draft.

I agree. I don't see him retiring and forfeiting all that money. Nor do I see him faking an injury especially as you said he brags about how low his body fast is or how well he did in fitness testing every time someone asks him why he's so lousy and slow. I don't see it.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747778 is a reply to message #747774 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 08:32

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:30

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:12

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 20:16

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 19:13

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.


It’s just so hard to prove that someone isn’t hurt. Look at Lupul.

Lucic has played a hard brand of hockey and his career has gone off the ledge. It would be pretty easy to build a case that he’s got some kind of degenerative injury that’s impacting his ability to play the game. As long as he doesn’t sign the year-end physical report though apparently.


I just have a hard time seeing Looch play along. Also have a hard time seeing Treliving being as ruthless about bending rules as Bowman and Lucky Lou. For Lupul, I think shutting him up likely involved some threats coming from Lou of what he would do to him if he was back to playing status.

IMO, more likely that Looch tries to force Treliving's hand to get his buyout by leveraging the expansion draft and his NMC. Looch still wants to play I think. He is still in the zone where he blames his environment far more than himself. He has many more summers where he will be optimistic that a slight change up of his training will reverse his fortunes.


It wont take bending of rules or playing along from either Lucic, the Flames or a doctor if the time comes for him to stop playing.
Dont forget that Lucic does actually have Scheuermann's disease. As one ages with that disease it can cause massive complications and pain. His style of play I am sure wont help that.
Whether he plays for pride or money I have no idea. If he decides its time to go, for whatever reason, it will take VERY little to convince a doc that it is pain related and not a made up issue.



He has 3 years left on his deal, and there are no signs Scheuermann's is affecting him. He even proudly boasts about his fitness every year and how ready he is and how good he feels. IMO, it will 100% require Lucic to go along with a total lie for him to go on LTIR at any point in the next 3 seasons. Can't just tell a guy that passes all your tests that he has to go on LTIR for made up reasons if he won't carry on the lie for you. Any doctor trying to make that claim would be putting his career on the line if Lucic fought it. The team, if caught trying to cheat the CBA and even worse commit insurance fraud, would be in trouble too. Looch holds the power.

Let's see if he decides to play the winning hand he's been dealt by forcing a buyout this coming summer by refusing to entertaining waiving his NMC for the expansion draft.

I agree. I don't see him retiring and forfeiting all that money. Nor do I see him faking an injury especially as you said he brags about how low his body fast is or how well he did in fitness testing every time someone asks him why he's so lousy and slow. I don't see it.

I'm just going by the past history of virtually every aging player with a boat anchor contract getting "injured". But I could be wrong.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747782 is a reply to message #747778 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 09:10


I'm just going by the past history of virtually every aging player with a boat anchor contract getting "injured". But I could be wrong.


Looking at the Lucic Ufa class

Ladd - buried in AHL for playing like a Lucic (Lou unable to do magic with him)
Backes - playing like a Lucic and taking up space. On IR now but will be back
Okposo - playing like a Lucic and taking up space. On IR now but will be back
Eriksson - playing like a Lucic and taking up space
Nielsen - playing like a Lucic and taking up space
Brouwer - bought out


So many unless players that teams wish they could just LTIR for made up reasons. 6 from this UFA class including Lucic.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 November 2019 17:38]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747874 is a reply to message #747782 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 09:31

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 09:10


I'm just going by the past history of virtually every aging player with a boat anchor contract getting "injured". But I could be wrong.


Looking at the Lucic Ufa class

Ladd - buried in AHL for playing like a Lucic (Lou unable to do magic with him)
Backes - playing like a Lucic and taking up space. On IR now but will be back
Okposo - playing like a Lucic and taking up space. On IR now but will be back
Eriksson - playing like a Lucic and taking up space
Nielsen - playing like a Lucic and taking up space
Brouwer - bought out


So many unless players that teams wish they could just LTIR for made up reasons. 6 from this UFA class including Lucic.



hehe, just to follow up on this and all the guys that teams wish they could just LTIR. So sad looking the point totals for the most expensive 2016 UFA's just 3.5 years later.

Player - 18/19 season - 19/20 season
Ladd - 26GP 3-8-11 - 0GP 0-0-0 (buried for being too useless)
Backes - 70GP 7-13-20 - 8GP 0-1-1
Okposo - 78GP 14-15-29 - 19GP 1-4-5
Eriksson - 81GP 11-18-29 - 14GP 0-0-0
Neilsen - 72GP 10-25-35 - 22GP 0-1-1
Brouwer - 75GP 12-9-21 - 1GP 0-0-0 (neither season for the Flames, was bought out in 2018)

and of course

Lucic - 79GP 6-14-20 - 25GP 0-4-4

Among all these guys in year 4 of their deals, they have a combined 1-10-11 in 89GP this year. Good for Looch accounting for almost 40% of their production. I think he has a lot of good years left :)

[Updated on: Tue, 26 November 2019 17:45]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #749152 is a reply to message #747874 ]
Wed, 11 December 2019 08:40 Go to previous message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Another Lucic goal. Teams are SO intimidated by his presence they are just getting out of the way when he shoots.


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747783 is a reply to message #747778 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 09:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 November 2019 08:32

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:30

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 21:12

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 20:16

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 19:13

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:59


I don't think Lucic would care. I have heard his comments and just like when he was with the Oilers, they talk to him a lot. He says the same crap as he did with the Oilers. He's doing worse than last year, no team will go near him so he doesn't even have an impact physically. So you'd think he would something different and if no one will engage you, you engage them. Run around. Nope. He just does this thing. So I don't think he's not going to forfeit 14 mill which is what is left to be paid and retire. If it was like Hossa where his cap hit was big but the actual money was next to nothing, then maybe. If Lucic cared, he would have been doing what he needed to do to try and get better when he was an Oiler. Instead he laughed when people suggested he use a skills coach making a joke about not needed to learn to dangle. He goes to a new team, new coach and he's even worse than last year. That tells me he's just doing what he normally does. Sure he comes into camp in amazing shape but he doesn't work on his skills. You'd think at his size, he would be able to just go to the net and bang the odd one in just because people can't move him.


He hired Adam Oates and Teddy Purcell to work with him this summer. I do think he's a proud guy and wants to be successful. I hated Lucic being an Oiler - I mean, he was great for my ego as I predicted precisely what would happen with his decline - but I don't doubt that he cares about what's happened for him.

I think the dismissiveness about skills coaches was part of that pride - he figured he won a Cup and had had some success, so why would he suddenly at age 30 have to hire a guy to work with him on soft skills? Especially if he was getting in the best shape of his life.

When he continued to flounder, he swallowed a bit of that pride and accepted that he needed more help. It didn't ultimately matter because they can't teach what he needs - his body is slowing down and at a time when the pace of the game is picking up. He was never a star player, even when he was at his most successful and if you're not a star, it's very hard to stay relevant if you lose a step.

I was advocating for it when he was an Oiler - if there's no moving him and he's no longer able to effectively play a role, and you need his cap money for something else - then I think you offer him a choice that touches on his pride. Either you find a way to help him save face - a career-ending "injury" or a straight-up retirement, or he gets the embarrassment of being a perpetual healthy scratch.

Seattle taking him is a pipedream because he's got two more full seasons after the expansion draft and he'll be completely useless by that time. I don't think you could pay them enough to take him on, unless they can just use him as a cap zombie - which again, you need him to be injured to manage. The sad thing is that I think he will waive for the Flames, so they won't lose someone better than they should because he's holding a spot on their protected list. Seattle's close to home for him and he'll be roundly hated in Calgary by that time so he'll be thrilled if there's an opportunity to leave - only there's no chance he gets picked.

He's making 6 mill this year, 4 mill next, 5 then 4 mill. There isn't a sharp drop off in salary. I am sure you are right, he's a proud guy so maybe he would care more than I think but he's also a family man. Yes all these guys want to win and do well and all that stuff but they are also business men who's main goal is to make as much money as they can for themselves and their family. Sure he's made good money but to up and retire with potentially 14 mill left. Or if he waits one more season and if it goes just as bad or worse, up and quit with 9 mill left. That's a hell of a lot of money just to walk away from for your pride.


That's where the allergy to hockey gear comes in - or the nagging back and knee pain that he's been trying to ignore and bravely fight through the last three years but finally caught up to him...

If he's on LTIR, he still gets paid and the team gets off the hook at least from a cap perspective, even though I'm sure there's a substantial deductible they have to pay for the insurance money to kick in.


DO insurance companies actually pay out for completely made up injuries? Hossa at least does have bad eczema that he was treating (he could have kept treating it, but I guess you can't force people to use creams and stuff if they refuse).

In Lucic's case, it would be 100% fiction.


It’s just so hard to prove that someone isn’t hurt. Look at Lupul.

Lucic has played a hard brand of hockey and his career has gone off the ledge. It would be pretty easy to build a case that he’s got some kind of degenerative injury that’s impacting his ability to play the game. As long as he doesn’t sign the year-end physical report though apparently.


I just have a hard time seeing Looch play along. Also have a hard time seeing Treliving being as ruthless about bending rules as Bowman and Lucky Lou. For Lupul, I think shutting him up likely involved some threats coming from Lou of what he would do to him if he was back to playing status.

IMO, more likely that Looch tries to force Treliving's hand to get his buyout by leveraging the expansion draft and his NMC. Looch still wants to play I think. He is still in the zone where he blames his environment far more than himself. He has many more summers where he will be optimistic that a slight change up of his training will reverse his fortunes.


It wont take bending of rules or playing along from either Lucic, the Flames or a doctor if the time comes for him to stop playing.
Dont forget that Lucic does actually have Scheuermann's disease. As one ages with that disease it can cause massive complications and pain. His style of play I am sure wont help that.
Whether he plays for pride or money I have no idea. If he decides its time to go, for whatever reason, it will take VERY little to convince a doc that it is pain related and not a made up issue.



He has 3 years left on his deal, and there are no signs Scheuermann's is affecting him. He even proudly boasts about his fitness every year and how ready he is and how good he feels. IMO, it will 100% require Lucic to go along with a total lie for him to go on LTIR at any point in the next 3 seasons. Can't just tell a guy that passes all your tests that he has to go on LTIR for made up reasons if he won't carry on the lie for you. Any doctor trying to make that claim would be putting his career on the line if Lucic fought it. The team, if caught trying to cheat the CBA and even worse commit insurance fraud, would be in trouble too. Looch holds the power.

Let's see if he decides to play the winning hand he's been dealt by forcing a buyout this coming summer by refusing to entertaining waiving his NMC for the expansion draft.

I agree. I don't see him retiring and forfeiting all that money. Nor do I see him faking an injury especially as you said he brags about how low his body fast is or how well he did in fitness testing every time someone asks him why he's so lousy and slow. I don't see it.

I'm just going by the past history of virtually every aging player with a boat anchor contract getting "injured". But I could be wrong.

Here's the difference in my opinion, Lucic isn't old. He's only 31 right now. Most of the guys that come up with these injuries are late 30's. Hossa was 37 yrs old. He went from making 4 mill to 1 mill which is barely over league minimum. He had cups, he had nothing to play for. He was a guy that had injuries in the past so I imagine his body was beat up a little. If I was his age, I don't know if I would want to go through training my ass off in the offseason, going through training camp and then the grind and physical toll of an NHL season to make barely above league minimum when I have more money than I can spend in my lifetime. Zetterberg was recent and he was 37 and had cups and had been dealing with a bad back for years. Lucic has never had a major injury and he's barely over 30.



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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747811 is a reply to message #747783 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Lucic is on pace to score one less point (13) in 82 games, than Neal's 14 goals in 26 games.


2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747703 is a reply to message #747699 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:15

Neal had 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons but Peter's decided he didn't like Neal and had no use for him pretty early last season. So he gets his GM to trade him. Rather than just dump Neal for a pick so while you get nothing for the player, you at least get the asset of cap space. They overreact to the AVs whipping them in the playoff, think they lost because they weren't tough enough when in reality it's because their best players didn't play well. So they trade Neal for Lucic. Lucic is a goon, who's skills are gone and who's no longer suited for the NHL.

So they downgrade their team skill, get a player who can't play in the NHL anymore, a player who you basically have to play because he makes too much money to sit and they don't even get cap space. That's how you build a losing team.


I don't doubt that Neal was off his game last year for Calgary. I know flames players/managers/coaches have no experience with playoffs, but there is pretty clear history what a run to the finals does to players. Neal had 2 runs to the finals the last 2 years. And he had to move both summers. He basically went 2 summers in a row not having any opportunity to train properly. He was set up to have a weak season in his first for the Flames. They just had to wait it out and get more from him this year. Instead, they traded for a guy that fell completely off a cliff 2 seasons prior with zero excuses for his play aside from him just sucking.

There is a good chance he wouldn't be scoring like he is if he was still a Flame but I would have put money down he could have gotten 10+ goals for the Flames. I would have guessed 13-14. I don't even know if Lucic will get 5 goals. He's even worse than he was with the Oilers. They even honored his No move. So they have to protect him for expansion.

Neal is on a 44 goal pace. I don't think he gets that but there are 56 games left, chances are he's going to get at least 10 more goals in 56 games. I am going to guess that Lucic manages to fluke in a couple of goals. My guess is he gets 3 for the year. I think it's a slam dunk that Neal outscores Lucic by over 20 goals. As a team, you can't make up that many goals.


If I'm in management with the Flames, I'm starting to have the conversation with Lucic about retirement as the season moves to a close...maybe he's got a nagging injury that's going to take him the whole rest of that contract to recover from? I'm making clear that if he doesn't, his career will end embarrassingly as a healthy scratch for weeks on end since he can't be demoted to the AHL.

It would not surprise me in the least if he develops an allergy to hockey equipment after this season.

For what it's worth, I have the over/under at 2.5 goals for the season. Really weak shooting stats, and cratering shooting percentage equals no threat to score. He's actually shooting more now than he did last year though...so who knows...maybe he can beat Toby Rieder's record from last year!!!


No chance he retires IMO. He wants his money, and he will want to keep breaking his best shape of his life record.

LTIR...that's a tough one. The Oilers should definitely be challenging the NHL on accepting any bull from their rivals. No reason for an amazing fitness freak like Looch to need to sit out.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747705 is a reply to message #747699 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 12:46



For what it's worth, I have the over/under at 2.5 goals for the season. Really weak shooting stats, and cratering shooting percentage equals no threat to score. He's actually shooting more now than he did last year though...so who knows...maybe he can beat Toby Rieder's record from last year!!!


I wouldn't bet on Lucic scoring moe that 8 goals for the rest of his career. I think if Neal suffered a career ending injury tomorrow, the Oilers would still win the trade in terms of production.



This is fine.

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747752 is a reply to message #747705 ]
Mon, 25 November 2019 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
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Funny thread. But you guys forget one important detail. Seattle is right beside the ocean. If Looch goes to play for Seattle he's back up to 8 goals just from salty ocean air power!


Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: 3rd Round Pick in Lucic/Neal Trade [message #747812 is a reply to message #747752 ]
Tue, 26 November 2019 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Xombie wrote on Mon, 25 November 2019 19:49

Funny thread. But you guys forget one important detail. Seattle is right beside the ocean. If Looch goes to play for Seattle he's back up to 8 goals just from salty ocean air power!


I thought it was Edmonton that had something in the water?



Clean house or bust

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