This day on November 21
Departed: Jesse Boulerice (2008)

Happy Birthday To: Snowman99, gjlang

F.A.Q. Terms of Use F.A.Q. F.A.Q.
Members Members   Search Search     Register Register   Login Login   Home Home
 NHL » Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing
Switch to flat viewSwitch to tree viewCreate a new topicSubmit Reply
 Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #683907]
Tue, 20 December 2016 16:33 Go to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
Messages: 1261
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

1 Cup

A couple of articles over at Oiler Nation by Jason Gregor and Robin Brownlee take the NHL to task over questionable rule enforcement and how that leads to injuries, especially among some of the NHL's more dynamic players

http://oilersnation.com/2016/12/20/wake-up-nhl-wake-up

http://oilersnation.com/2016/12/20/rules-what-rules

There have been similar comments frequently in the post-game threads here at oilfans....and any time one visits nhl.com, it seems like most of the articles are about players being sidelined by injuries, often due to dirty plays that the on-ice officials may have penalized, penalized inadequately, or missed completely....

....after the lockout that cost the NHL a whole season, it seemed like the NHL hockey was better than ever....and the flow of games was excellent, and skill and hard work were how teams succeeded...games lasted about 2hours and 15 minutes, but now they are back to nearly 2 3/4 hours....

....so how can the NHL make officiating better? I don't think star players should necessarily get "special" treatment, but if they are fouled, then penalties should be called...the embellishers and divers will be found out and rightly punished, too....




Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #683910 is a reply to message #683907 ]
Tue, 20 December 2016 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14096
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

It really seems like the refs are so scared of looking like they're giving stars special treatment that they end up giving them the worst treatment. There is definitely something not right going on.


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #683911 is a reply to message #683907 ]
Tue, 20 December 2016 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 5146
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

5 Cups

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 20 December 2016 15:33

A couple of articles over at Oiler Nation by Jason Gregor and Robin Brownlee take the NHL to task over questionable rule enforcement and how that leads to injuries, especially among some of the NHL's more dynamic players

http://oilersnation.com/2016/12/20/wake-up-nhl-wake-up

http://oilersnation.com/2016/12/20/rules-what-rules

There have been similar comments frequently in the post-game threads here at oilfans....and any time one visits nhl.com, it seems like most of the articles are about players being sidelined by injuries, often due to dirty plays that the on-ice officials may have penalized, penalized inadequately, or missed completely....

....after the lockout that cost the NHL a whole season, it seemed like the NHL hockey was better than ever....and the flow of games was excellent, and skill and hard work were how teams succeeded...games lasted about 2hours and 15 minutes, but now they are back to nearly 2 3/4 hours....

....so how can the NHL make officiating better? I don't think star players should necessarily get "special" treatment, but if they are fouled, then penalties should be called...the embellishers and divers will be found out and rightly punished, too....


I saw the highlight of the no-call on the McD breakaway, absolutely baffling that two refs couldn't call a text book penalty staring them in the face, the same refs who at other times would in turn likely call something far less blatant, even bordering on the "mysterious".
This type of inconsistency makes it clear they just keep missing calls, or making calls, that are just wrong. Bad work, professional ineptitude.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks, K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner, Petrovic = Nathan Legare

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #683932 is a reply to message #683911 ]
Wed, 21 December 2016 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4760
Registered: January 2016

4 Cups

The league is searching for ways to make the game more exciting and increase scoring. They want to change goalie equipment, the topic of making the nets bigger always comes up, they have changed where PP's start, how faceoffs are done.

CALL THE RULES!!!

If there is a hook, call the hook. If there is a slash, call the slash. Make it black and white. It's in the rule book, call the damn penalty. Will there be a parade to the penalty box? YES there will be at the start but eventually the players will figure it out and adapt. In the end, if the rules are actually called all the time, the on ice product will be better. By calling the rules, you are also going to breakdown all the hardcore defensive systems that some teams play and are boring to watch. The league is getting faster and faster with more of an emphasis on puck movement. So if you aren't going to be allowed to hook, hold and "stand" guys up as you "trap them" if you have to move your feet all the time to keep up. If you breakdown what standing a guy up is when he's doesn't have the puck, it's getting in a guys way. How many times a game do we all see the puck get dumped into the zone, the forwards go after it and the dman or opposing player, skates over to them and stands in front of them blocking their progress. That's interference by definition. So call it. The more times you have to make the defense be in motion all the time, the more chance there are for breakdowns.

The McDavid non call is a classic example of the crap that happens on a game by game basis all across the league. Pietrangelo hooked and slashed him multiple times as he tried to go on a breakaway It ended up in not even a shot on goal. Call the penalty. Did Pietrangelo drag him to the ice? Nope but he did hook and hack him the whole time. Pretty tough to get a shot off if your arm is being tugged and the opposing player is wacking your hand, arms and stick. The worst part is, it's not just 4th line slugs trying to stay in the league, its the best players in the world doing that stuff. Pietrangelo is an Olympic dman and he's doing that crap because he can. If Pietrangelo makes a great defensive play by swatting the puck away, great. He did nothing but take the easy way out and break the rules because he can.

[Updated on: Wed, 21 December 2016 10:04]


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #684080 is a reply to message #683932 ]
Thu, 22 December 2016 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve  is currently offline Steve
Messages: 433
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 December 2016 09:01

The league is searching for ways to make the game more exciting and increase scoring. They want to change goalie equipment, the topic of making the nets bigger always comes up, they have changed where PP's start, how faceoffs are done.

CALL THE RULES!!!

If there is a hook, call the hook. If there is a slash, call the slash. Make it black and white. It's in the rule book, call the damn penalty. Will there be a parade to the penalty box? YES there will be at the start but eventually the players will figure it out and adapt. In the end, if the rules are actually called all the time, the on ice product will be better. By calling the rules, you are also going to breakdown all the hardcore defensive systems that some teams play and are boring to watch. The league is getting faster and faster with more of an emphasis on puck movement. So if you aren't going to be allowed to hook, hold and "stand" guys up as you "trap them" if you have to move your feet all the time to keep up. If you breakdown what standing a guy up is when he's doesn't have the puck, it's getting in a guys way. How many times a game do we all see the puck get dumped into the zone, the forwards go after it and the dman or opposing player, skates over to them and stands in front of them blocking their progress. That's interference by definition. So call it. The more times you have to make the defense be in motion all the time, the more chance there are for breakdowns.

The McDavid non call is a classic example of the crap that happens on a game by game basis all across the league. Pietrangelo hooked and slashed him multiple times as he tried to go on a breakaway It ended up in not even a shot on goal. Call the penalty. Did Pietrangelo drag him to the ice? Nope but he did hook and hack him the whole time. Pretty tough to get a shot off if your arm is being tugged and the opposing player is wacking your hand, arms and stick. The worst part is, it's not just 4th line slugs trying to stay in the league, its the best players in the world doing that stuff. Pietrangelo is an Olympic dman and he's doing that crap because he can. If Pietrangelo makes a great defensive play by swatting the puck away, great. He did nothing but take the easy way out and break the rules because he can.


Not too long ago Ken Holland was interviewed and said the league is happy with how close the games are. He said games that go down to the wire are entertaining. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

I think he also said the league was generally happy with how many penalties were being called. He mentioned that the games should be decided 5 on 5. I think the reason behind this is to keep games close, pure and simple. If a team gets hot on the powerplay, there is a good chance that the game gets out of hand early.

To me, that sounds like the league is telling refs to keep the games close and penalties down, no matter how much McDavid is being mauled.

Evening up the powerplays has been around forever. If the home team has had 3 straight powerplays, you just know that you're team is going to take a penalty soon on a phantom call. The difference these days is the insistence on keeping the total number of powerplays down, and an over-the-top attempt at keeping the game close. It seems they are taking the concept to a new level that we haven't seen before.

Now, close games are good, but there comes point when a close game can feel artificial due to bad officiating. Case in point the game last night against the Coyotes (not that I saw it, but the comments have been plentiful). Also, I think there is a very real danger that the league is risking the health of its players with this approach. They need to realize they have taken this too far and need to scale it back.



"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #684088 is a reply to message #683932 ]
Thu, 22 December 2016 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
Messages: 320
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

No Cups

Very well put, RD. I agree 100%. The rulebook exists for a reason. If the Oilers deserve more penalties than the other guys, I'm OK with us being shorthanded more frequently. If you do the crime, you should serve the time.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #684098 is a reply to message #683907 ]
Thu, 22 December 2016 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14096
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Good interview with Kerry Fraser on NHL officiating today.

https://soundcloud.com/thejasongregorshow/gregor-show-dec-22 -kerry-fraser

Some good insights. Like how some refs will make long distance or phantom calls just so they can get involved in the game if they feel the other ref is more involved than them and there is a feeling of competition between refs.

Says major on Gryba was not justified and the refs just made up the call after their conference. Says too many refs now are scared to make a call which leads to these long conferences with guys not willing to take control of the situation and take ownership of a call. Suppose that can lead to a bunch of wimps just agreeing to make the easy call, like a phantom 5 min major just because a guy looks hurt.

Says Kassian deserved 2 mins for cross-checking. Maybe 5 mins for punching Duclair, but no reason for a match penalty.

Thinks there should be more attention by the refs to call obstruction on McDavid. Thinks the refs are being caught off-guard by the plays because McDavid does things too quickly.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 December 2016 21:32]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #738659 is a reply to message #684098 ]
Wed, 12 June 2019 05:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
Messages: 1261
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

1 Cup

The NHL and NHLPA are working towards solving some of the refereeing issues that plague the league, plus a Connor McDavid sighting (no updates on his injury).

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhlnhlpa-competition-committee-make s-recommendations/c-307809228

While some or all the recommendations might not make it through the Board of Governors snd/or NHLPA, I think most of these proposals are going in the right direction.Something has to be done to clean up rule enforcement in the NHL.




Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #743084 is a reply to message #738659 ]
Fri, 20 September 2019 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
Messages: 1261
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

1 Cup

The NHL has made some subtle yet important rule changes for the 2019-20 season.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/the-buzzer-nhl-rule-cha nges-1.5290278

It looks like there will be a lot more video reviews, which can be the worst thing to interfere with the flow of the game. Nevertheless, this should lead to most of the missed calls being found out.

Now if they could figure out a way to make sure every physical infraction is called. Too much slashing and interference of the star players goes on.




Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #743094 is a reply to message #743084 ]
Fri, 20 September 2019 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 11603
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 09:06

The NHL has made some subtle yet important rule changes for the 2019-20 season.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/the-buzzer-nhl-rule-cha nges-1.5290278

It looks like there will be a lot more video reviews, which can be the worst thing to interfere with the flow of the game. Nevertheless, this should lead to most of the missed calls being found out.

Now if they could figure out a way to make sure every physical infraction is called. Too much slashing and interference of the star players goes on.


How can anyone who's watched any amount of hockey over the last few years think that the solution to a better on-ice product is more reviews?!?



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #743096 is a reply to message #743094 ]
Fri, 20 September 2019 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14096
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 11:58

GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 09:06

The NHL has made some subtle yet important rule changes for the 2019-20 season.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/the-buzzer-nhl-rule-cha nges-1.5290278

It looks like there will be a lot more video reviews, which can be the worst thing to interfere with the flow of the game. Nevertheless, this should lead to most of the missed calls being found out.

Now if they could figure out a way to make sure every physical infraction is called. Too much slashing and interference of the star players goes on.


How can anyone who's watched any amount of hockey over the last few years think that the solution to a better on-ice product is more reviews?!?


Getting it right trumps all else.

Except the whole issue where things like goalie interference are blatantly there for all to see and the refs still get it wrong with the review. Maybe we need to add an appeal system to review the reviews. Maybe have some lawyers involved at game time.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #743099 is a reply to message #743096 ]
Fri, 20 September 2019 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 11603
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 12:14

Adam wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 11:58

GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 09:06

The NHL has made some subtle yet important rule changes for the 2019-20 season.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/the-buzzer-nhl-rule-cha nges-1.5290278

It looks like there will be a lot more video reviews, which can be the worst thing to interfere with the flow of the game. Nevertheless, this should lead to most of the missed calls being found out.

Now if they could figure out a way to make sure every physical infraction is called. Too much slashing and interference of the star players goes on.


How can anyone who's watched any amount of hockey over the last few years think that the solution to a better on-ice product is more reviews?!?


Getting it right trumps all else.

Except the whole issue where things like goalie interference are blatantly there for all to see and the refs still get it wrong with the review. Maybe we need to add an appeal system to review the reviews. Maybe have some lawyers involved at game time.


To be fair to the referees, goalie interference is only applicable if you don't feel you'll disappoint a veteran star player on the other team. What WOULD they tell Corey!?



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #743100 is a reply to message #743096 ]
Fri, 20 September 2019 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
Messages: 1151
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 11:14

Adam wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 11:58

GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 09:06

The NHL has made some subtle yet important rule changes for the 2019-20 season.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/the-buzzer-nhl-rule-cha nges-1.5290278

It looks like there will be a lot more video reviews, which can be the worst thing to interfere with the flow of the game. Nevertheless, this should lead to most of the missed calls being found out.

Now if they could figure out a way to make sure every physical infraction is called. Too much slashing and interference of the star players goes on.


How can anyone who's watched any amount of hockey over the last few years think that the solution to a better on-ice product is more reviews?!?


Getting it right trumps all else.

Except the whole issue where things like goalie interference are blatantly there for all to see and the refs still get it wrong with the review. Maybe we need to add an appeal system to review the reviews. Maybe have some lawyers involved at game time.


I don't have a problem with them wanting to get the call right, and I think we all knew that by introducing video replay in the first place, we were going down this rabbit hole. Sure it will lead to more delays, but if the call is correct in the end I'm ok with it. My problem is with leaving this all to the on-ice officials. Why not take them out of it and let the situation room(s) handle all video review? They are better equiped with big HD screens, away from the pressure of the rabid fans and emotionally charged, testosterone filled players up in their grills. They "should" be more objective, not feeling like they have to admit they personally made a mistake moments before.

I would also like there to be a quick, but clear reason & verdict announced before & after reviews, like they do in football. Especially on the more confusing calls. Sometimes we don't even know what their actually reviewing.

I like the additional coaches challenges available, and increasing penalties for failed challenges.

I also don't mind the additonal conditions for not being allowed to change lines, especially for the knocking the net off. Though, I though that was supposed to be a delay of game penalty all along?

It would be nice though if they would just call the penalties and enforce the damn rules as their written. Enough mugging 97 already! Set the precedent early in the season, and teams will figure it out.



I like to build stuff & things.
https://www.somethingedgy.ca/
I make music too.
https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/undermaker442/inexplicable

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #743101 is a reply to message #743100 ]
Fri, 20 September 2019 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14096
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

jds308 wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 12:58

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 11:14

Adam wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 11:58

GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 20 September 2019 09:06

The NHL has made some subtle yet important rule changes for the 2019-20 season.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/the-buzzer-nhl-rule-cha nges-1.5290278

It looks like there will be a lot more video reviews, which can be the worst thing to interfere with the flow of the game. Nevertheless, this should lead to most of the missed calls being found out.

Now if they could figure out a way to make sure every physical infraction is called. Too much slashing and interference of the star players goes on.


How can anyone who's watched any amount of hockey over the last few years think that the solution to a better on-ice product is more reviews?!?


Getting it right trumps all else.

Except the whole issue where things like goalie interference are blatantly there for all to see and the refs still get it wrong with the review. Maybe we need to add an appeal system to review the reviews. Maybe have some lawyers involved at game time.


I don't have a problem with them wanting to get the call right, and I think we all knew that by introducing video replay in the first place, we were going down this rabbit hole. Sure it will lead to more delays, but if the call is correct in the end I'm ok with it. My problem is with leaving this all to the on-ice officials. Why not take them out of it and let the situation room(s) handle all video review? They are better equiped with big HD screens, away from the pressure of the rabid fans and emotionally charged, testosterone filled players up in their grills. They "should" be more objective, not feeling like they have to admit they personally made a mistake moments before.

I would also like there to be a quick, but clear reason & verdict announced before & after reviews, like they do in football. Especially on the more confusing calls. Sometimes we don't even know what their actually reviewing.

I like the additional coaches challenges available, and increasing penalties for failed challenges.

I also don't mind the additonal conditions for not being allowed to change lines, especially for the knocking the net off. Though, I though that was supposed to be a delay of game penalty all along?

It would be nice though if they would just call the penalties and enforce the damn rules as their written. Enough mugging 97 already! Set the precedent early in the season, and teams will figure it out.


Agreed on that. The learning so far at the very least should have been that reviews need to be taken completely out of the hands of the on ice refs. It's so obvious by now that they are always reluctant to overturn their original calls, and can be influenced by vet players/coaches/fans. There are enough camera angles available for the situation room to know what happened.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Injuries and the NHL's Refereeing [message #743135 is a reply to message #743101 ]
Sat, 21 September 2019 02:32 Go to previous message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 5162
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

Start video reviewing the play -before- the ref asks them to. They should have a ref reviewing plays in real time with a PVR.

The problem is now you have the refs talking it over asking if anyone saw anything, then they go make the request, then the video guys have to rewind and rewatch to see what happened.

You cut that cycle time down by having another official actively looking at things so he can make the call before the head ref even skates over to the phone.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

Send a private message to this user  

 
Previous Topic:G. Reinhart Put On Waivers
Next Topic:Byfuglien on Personal Leave and may Retire
Oilers NHL Minors Speculation For Sale 


Copyright © OilFans.com 1996-2019.
All content is property of OilFans.com and cannot be used without expressed, written consent from this site.
Questions, comments and suggestions can be directed to oilfans@OilFans.com
Privacy Statement


Hosted by LogicalHosting.ca