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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740585 is a reply to message #740582 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5056
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother. If it was me, I would just walk away and save myself the frustration.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 July 2019 12:50]


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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740587 is a reply to message #740585 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 10295
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother.

Because hockey, no matter how bad the Oilers are, is still fun. The Oilers are a nice distraction from the day to day grind of life and I get to come here and talk about something fun.



This is fine.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740588 is a reply to message #740587 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5056
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother.

Because hockey, no matter how bad the Oilers are, is still fun. The Oilers are a nice distraction from the day to day grind of life and I get to come here and talk about something fun.


Glad to hear its still fun because you could have fooled me.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740589 is a reply to message #740588 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 10295
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:00

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother.

Because hockey, no matter how bad the Oilers are, is still fun. The Oilers are a nice distraction from the day to day grind of life and I get to come here and talk about something fun.


Glad to hear its still fun because you could have fooled me.

The games can suck the life out of me, but that's an easy fix, I can turn off the channel and get back to reality. What I always like is the analysis, the predictions, the long term trends, back and forth between people. It's all good stuff. Then we get to watch hockey, maybe drink a beer, and see who was right. And hey, sometimes the hockey is even pretty good.

This is one of my big complaints with non-professional hockey in Edmonton. I enjoy the hell out of the AJHL, but I have no one to talk to about it. I go to games, make snide comments about Bonnyville's third line, and nobody cares. I took my daughter to a game against Camrose last year and she was like "Camrose, I dance against them. I hate these guys". So we talked about our mutual dislike of Camrose for a period and a half. It was fun. Good times. For what it's worth, I hate the Saints. Go Cru.



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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740591 is a reply to message #740585 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1601
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother. If it was me, I would just walk away and save myself the frustration.

I saw a speaker at a conference recently who talked about Epic Stories. The idea is that most epic stories have a formula. Hero/underdog (Frodo, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker), trusted companions (Sam/the ginger kid/Han solo), a mentor figure (Gandalf, dumbledore, obiwan), a nemesis (Sauron/Voldemort/darth Vader) and some sort of quest. Naturally this translates into sports very well. The players are the heroes, opposing teams are the enemy, the coach is the mentor and the quest is for the cup. We, the fans, are a part of the story because we are the trusted companions. The guy’s name was Steve Donahue. It was a decent presentation.

In the case of Oiler fans, our hero is closer to the Black Knight from Monty Python. Incapable and unaware of his own incompetence. The nemesis owns the organization and his evil henchmen are its managers. We can’t find a mentor with an idea better than getting rid of donuts and the quest is so far out of reach that we can’t talk about it with a straight face. But trusted companions don’t abandon the hero. They just develop a fatalistic and deeply sarcastic attitude and comment on web forums.




You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740592 is a reply to message #740591 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 10295
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother. If it was me, I would just walk away and save myself the frustration.

I saw a speaker at a conference recently who talked about Epic Stories. The idea is that most epic stories have a formula. Hero/underdog (Frodo, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker), trusted companions (Sam/the ginger kid/Han solo), a mentor figure (Gandalf, dumbledore, obiwan), a nemesis (Sauron/Voldemort/darth Vader) and some sort of quest. Naturally this translates into sports very well. The players are the heroes, opposing teams are the enemy, the coach is the mentor and the quest is for the cup. We, the fans, are a part of the story because we are the trusted companions. The guy’s name was Steve Donahue. It was a decent presentation.

In the case of Oiler fans, our hero is closer to the Black Knight from Monty Python. Incapable and unaware of his own incompetence. The nemesis owns the organization and his evil henchmen are its managers. We can’t find a mentor with an idea better than getting rid of donuts and the quest is so far out of reach that we can’t talk about it with a straight face. But trusted companions don’t abandon the hero. They just develop a fatalistic and deeply sarcastic attitude and comment on web forums.



I stopped buying tickets and merchandise too. I'm contributing!



This is fine.

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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740593 is a reply to message #740592 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5056
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother. If it was me, I would just walk away and save myself the frustration.

I saw a speaker at a conference recently who talked about Epic Stories. The idea is that most epic stories have a formula. Hero/underdog (Frodo, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker), trusted companions (Sam/the ginger kid/Han solo), a mentor figure (Gandalf, dumbledore, obiwan), a nemesis (Sauron/Voldemort/darth Vader) and some sort of quest. Naturally this translates into sports very well. The players are the heroes, opposing teams are the enemy, the coach is the mentor and the quest is for the cup. We, the fans, are a part of the story because we are the trusted companions. The guy’s name was Steve Donahue. It was a decent presentation.

In the case of Oiler fans, our hero is closer to the Black Knight from Monty Python. Incapable and unaware of his own incompetence. The nemesis owns the organization and his evil henchmen are its managers. We can’t find a mentor with an idea better than getting rid of donuts and the quest is so far out of reach that we can’t talk about it with a straight face. But trusted companions don’t abandon the hero. They just develop a fatalistic and deeply sarcastic attitude and comment on web forums.



I stopped buying tickets and merchandise too. I'm contributing!

I have been buying mini packs of tickets for a very long time. My advance window was today. I used to get them with some other guys. The one guy I went with last year didn't want to buy so I bought 2 tickets for a 4 game pack for my family. My wife will take each one of our boys to a game, I will take each one of our boys to a game. She's excited, my boys are excited, I am excited. I don't think that makes me a bad person because I buy tickets which in turn support the Oilers. We want them to win all the games we go too but we get enjoyment out of going no matter what which is the main point.



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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740596 is a reply to message #740593 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 15417
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:47

I have been buying mini packs of tickets for a very long time. My advance window was today. I used to get them with some other guys. The one guy I went with last year didn't want to buy so I bought 2 tickets for a 4 game pack for my family. My wife will take each one of our boys to a game, I will take each one of our boys to a game. She's excited, my boys are excited, I am excited. I don't think that makes me a bad person because I buy tickets which in turn support the Oilers. We want them to win all the games we go too but we get enjoyment out of going no matter what which is the main point.



I feel I have not taken a turn yet on here to tell someone that buys tickets that they should not spend their money that way.

So, RDO, you should not be giving the Oilers any of your money. You are enabling mismanagement! :)



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740598 is a reply to message #740596 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5056
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:47

I have been buying mini packs of tickets for a very long time. My advance window was today. I used to get them with some other guys. The one guy I went with last year didn't want to buy so I bought 2 tickets for a 4 game pack for my family. My wife will take each one of our boys to a game, I will take each one of our boys to a game. She's excited, my boys are excited, I am excited. I don't think that makes me a bad person because I buy tickets which in turn support the Oilers. We want them to win all the games we go too but we get enjoyment out of going no matter what which is the main point.



I feel I have not taken a turn yet on here to tell someone that buys tickets that they should not spend their money that way.

So, RDO, you should not be giving the Oilers any of your money. You are enabling mismanagement! :)


Too late, already bought. I bet my wife and I will end up buying some merchandise as well when we go to the game. I guess that means I am "burying my head in the sand" because we are doing things that we enjoy and create memories.



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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740597 is a reply to message #740593 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1601
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:47

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


Based on Young Willis' work, this appears to be another attempt to bolster the PK group. Archibald had good PK results with the Coyotes.

Overall, I think the whole org puts a lot of blame on how bad the bottom 6 was last year. Hitch touched on their lack of compete many times last season, and I'm sure he continues to put that point home as an adviser.

All we are getting this year is an attempt to bump the speed and "compete" level of our bottom 6, a fresh new look from coaching, and we pray it's enough to battle for a wildcard spot.

Then next summer, we bring back Hall :) Anyone been listening to Stauffer trying to hint almost every day at a Hall return? lol.


I think it's a stretch to think Hall would come back. It's not like the organization has made big changes. The Old Boys are still in control. Lowe and Gretzky and Howson all were there to bless dealing him away, and they all are there to bless the next idiotic move. He probably would still have to have Glenn Anderson and other 1980s Oilers hanging around team parties.

And the team is still not good, so it's not like he's coming to a team on the cusp of a championship. Also we gave his number to a third pairing defenceman...

So are you saying that Hall has an attitude problem, is petty and hold grudges? All you did was list off petty reasons like still upset being about being traded and you listed off a few guys who are still hanging around.

It was a stupid trade that shouldn't have happened. But in trading him, the argument can be made it helped his career. Hall was a very good player when he was with the Oilers. But his last season with the Oilers, 26 goals, 65 pts. Doesn't jump off the page. Previous years were good, not great with 1 80 pts. Never scored 30 goals, never in the conversation for any awards. Did he even make an allstar team with the Oilers? Maybe once. Trade shakes him up. Takes him a year to get over it, has an MVP season on a crap team with little to work with. Again, I am not justifying the trade, it was stupid but I don't for a second think he would have hit the gear he's at if he was an Oiler playing behind McDavid. He'd be on the second line with Nuge. So I doubt he scores what he has in NJ. McDavid would get all the awards, all the praise and probably all the all star nods. I am not even sure on the Oilers, he would get first unit PP time. Maybe. He's going to get probably overpaid by a team this offseason because he has that MVP on his resume, something he would never have gotten on the Oilers. I wish the trade didn't happen and I would be very happy to see Hall with Nuge on the second line putting up high 20's in goals, flirting with 70 pts just like he did all those years but I don't think Hall was scorned as badly as you make it out to be.


Uhhhh...no.

I'm saying that as a free agent, he probably wants to go where he has a chance to win. Here we have a dreadful front office who already traded him for peanuts once in a brutal deal.

And chances are, there will be several other suitors who are much closer to winning a Stanley Cup. There shouldn't be - five seasons in with McDavid, it's a crime not to be a perrennial contender - but that's why it's not a smart decision to sign with the Oilers. The organization is a running joke.

Besides, by the time he's available here, his buddies are going to be pretty close to being released from the asylum. Nuge (if not traded in a similar terrible deal) will be a year away from UFA, and McDavid will be about one more blown season away from demanding a trade.

PS. He should have been on the first line with McDavid - they were played together pathetically little, only because we had a pathetically bad coach who couldn't go more than two games without shuffling the deck.


I think he's actually really good buddies with Nurse. Like our boy mcDavid. Nurse is the glue that's gonna bring all this together!

It's pretty simple. If the Oilers were a good team, he'd consider them regardless if Klowe and Gretzky are hanging out having drinks in a box.

That's a pretty big "if" considering the last 20 years.

Yes it is. Doesn't mean it can't happen regardless if Gretzky is in town his 5 times a year or Klowe happens to be in the lunch room the same time as Holland.


Fans are welcome to stick their head in the sands all they want about the cancerous influence of the Old Boys. It's totally up to you if you want to naively believe that Kevin Lowe is now doing some business role he's completely unqualified instead of a hockey operations role that he's equally unqualified for.

These guys are in on the decisions about who to hire for management roles, they're in the room when big decisions are being made about the team, and they have the ear of the owner if things aren't going how they want them to, but sure...they're just "watching a few games" and "sharing a lunch room."

The culture of protecting Lowe and a few close friends over any other team priority has absolutely poisoned team culture and I think it still has a malignant effect on the organization. I don't believe the Oilers were fixed by firing Chiarelli and hiring Holland, and I don't expect any quantum leap forward this year. Without that, how are you going to convince star free agents that this is the best place to land? How are you going to convince your current stars that there's a light at the end of this deep, dark tunnel?

I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother. If it was me, I would just walk away and save myself the frustration.

I saw a speaker at a conference recently who talked about Epic Stories. The idea is that most epic stories have a formula. Hero/underdog (Frodo, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker), trusted companions (Sam/the ginger kid/Han solo), a mentor figure (Gandalf, dumbledore, obiwan), a nemesis (Sauron/Voldemort/darth Vader) and some sort of quest. Naturally this translates into sports very well. The players are the heroes, opposing teams are the enemy, the coach is the mentor and the quest is for the cup. We, the fans, are a part of the story because we are the trusted companions. The guy’s name was Steve Donahue. It was a decent presentation.

In the case of Oiler fans, our hero is closer to the Black Knight from Monty Python. Incapable and unaware of his own incompetence. The nemesis owns the organization and his evil henchmen are its managers. We can’t find a mentor with an idea better than getting rid of donuts and the quest is so far out of reach that we can’t talk about it with a straight face. But trusted companions don’t abandon the hero. They just develop a fatalistic and deeply sarcastic attitude and comment on web forums.



I stopped buying tickets and merchandise too. I'm contributing!

I have been buying mini packs of tickets for a very long time. My advance window was today. I used to get them with some other guys. The one guy I went with last year didn't want to buy so I bought 2 tickets for a 4 game pack for my family. My wife will take each one of our boys to a game, I will take each one of our boys to a game. She's excited, my boys are excited, I am excited. I don't think that makes me a bad person because I buy tickets which in turn support the Oilers. We want them to win all the games we go too but we get enjoyment out of going no matter what which is the main point.


i buy tickets but on the secondary market. So that's how I justify that technically my dollars are not going to the team. McDavid is still worth seeing in person and sometimes there are still things like the Tobias Rieder streak to cheer for.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740599 is a reply to message #740593 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 12387
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:47

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 12:40


I am not sticking my head in the sand Adam. Please do not decide you know exactly how I think. You don't know me what so ever. Am I happy at what has happened, no, I am not happy at all. It's frustrating as hell. But it's a freaking pro sports team, it's not life or death here. It's not personal. The team hasn't wronged any of us or me. They didn't sleep with my wife for god sake. It's entertainment. If the Oilers don't win a game as much as I want them to win them all, no one gets hurt or dies in my life. When the day comes that I am as miserable and negative over a freaking sports team, is the day I step away.

Serious question and this is in no way me trying to be a jerk. If you have no confidence what so ever that the team, the owner, the organization or whoever else will ever get better, why bother watching them or coming here to comment on them? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if all you expect is the worst, then why bother. If it was me, I would just walk away and save myself the frustration.

I saw a speaker at a conference recently who talked about Epic Stories. The idea is that most epic stories have a formula. Hero/underdog (Frodo, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker), trusted companions (Sam/the ginger kid/Han solo), a mentor figure (Gandalf, dumbledore, obiwan), a nemesis (Sauron/Voldemort/darth Vader) and some sort of quest. Naturally this translates into sports very well. The players are the heroes, opposing teams are the enemy, the coach is the mentor and the quest is for the cup. We, the fans, are a part of the story because we are the trusted companions. The guy’s name was Steve Donahue. It was a decent presentation.

In the case of Oiler fans, our hero is closer to the Black Knight from Monty Python. Incapable and unaware of his own incompetence. The nemesis owns the organization and his evil henchmen are its managers. We can’t find a mentor with an idea better than getting rid of donuts and the quest is so far out of reach that we can’t talk about it with a straight face. But trusted companions don’t abandon the hero. They just develop a fatalistic and deeply sarcastic attitude and comment on web forums.



I stopped buying tickets and merchandise too. I'm contributing!

I have been buying mini packs of tickets for a very long time. My advance window was today. I used to get them with some other guys. The one guy I went with last year didn't want to buy so I bought 2 tickets for a 4 game pack for my family. My wife will take each one of our boys to a game, I will take each one of our boys to a game. She's excited, my boys are excited, I am excited. I don't think that makes me a bad person because I buy tickets which in turn support the Oilers. We want them to win all the games we go too but we get enjoyment out of going no matter what which is the main point.



Alright, again I don't have even close to the time needed for this response, but I'll do what I can in the time available.

As with CrusaderPi, I enjoy talking about hockey...even when the hockey is bad, and the team is bad and there's little signs of hope on the horizon. McDavid's fun to watch too and I'll be really upset the day he asks to leave.

I do feel a bit wronged by the team...the fixes to me are so obvious, the mistakes so glaring that it feels like we're being robbed of some really good times here simply through sheer incompetence, and then unwillingness by the owner to let his incompetent buddies go. I don't lose sleep about it...at least, not often. I was extremely angry the week that we traded Hall and signed Lucic and Gustavsson. It was all so clearly bad that it frustrated me to think that anyone could have thought that was a path to success.

I'm rarely that frustrated though...usually I'm always able to comfort myself that the team proves me right again and again and again. I can predict the future with the team, and while I'd rather be starkly wrong and see the team succeed, they don't put themselves in a position to succeed so you don't have to be Nostradamus to read the tea leaves. Accurately forecasting the Paul Coffey hire was a little bit freaky though...I'll have to admit.

I care pretty deeply about the Oilers - they have meant a lot to me since I was a little boy. It sucks to see these guys screw it up for two decades and have no consequences for that. It's sad that so many people I knew who WERE die-hards have lost the passion for it, because the team is always bad. I'd really like to see them better, and the sad thing is, being better wouldn't be that hard. Most of the posters in here could have done a better job managing the team than these clowns.

Don't be ashamed of buying tickets. Support and cheer for the team however you want. But also, I think you should understand that anger and disappointment and disillusionment about these screw-ups and their mismanagement of our favourite team are totally valid emotions and that people SHOULD be able to feel and express those. If you don't like seeing that? Either hope for change within the organization - because on-ice success doesn't come without it - or don't pay attention or respond to people expressing those things.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740641 is a reply to message #740599 ]
Thu, 18 July 2019 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
Messages: 687
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Location: Edmonton

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Well said, Adam. I got into the Oilers in the WHA-era and seeing first hand the quality of management, the player development and teamwork that went into the glory years was a source of pride. The decades of darkness are exasperating because the incompetence has killed that pride. If someone takes their kids to a game, right on, no negative at all, good to hear. If someone buys tickets and goes to a few games, right on, no negative at all, good to hear. But this forum is my (and a few others?) way of defusing our anger, expressing our outrage and pointing out critical failures of those in positions of power on the team who want/need our money. My way of protesting their incompetence is closing my wallet as much as I can.

Confession in the interests of full disclosure: I got free tickets to a few games last season, had a few beers in Ford Hall and bought one during the game at full price. I felt unclean, but I feel better that I've got that off my chest.



Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010


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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740642 is a reply to message #740641 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 00:49 Go to previous message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 6057
Registered: February 2011

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stemhovlichski wrote on Thu, 18 July 2019 23:53

Well said, Adam. I got into the Oilers in the WHA-era and seeing first hand the quality of management, the player development and teamwork that went into the glory years was a source of pride. The decades of darkness are exasperating because the incompetence has killed that pride. If someone takes their kids to a game, right on, no negative at all, good to hear. If someone buys tickets and goes to a few games, right on, no negative at all, good to hear. But this forum is my (and a few others?) way of defusing our anger, expressing our outrage and pointing out critical failures of those in positions of power on the team who want/need our money. My way of protesting their incompetence is closing my wallet as much as I can.

Confession in the interests of full disclosure: I got free tickets to a few games last season, had a few beers in Ford Hall and bought one during the game at full price. I felt unclean, but I feel better that I've got that off my chest.

You didn't pay for those tickets, so you don't need to feel that guilty. In fact, the money you saved on buying the tickets meant you had more for purchasing the alcoholic beverages you would need to ease the pain of watching the Oilers being Oilers yet again. I've had to consciously watch my own consumption of alcohol when watching the Oil play whatever they think is hockey. I'm glad that weed is legal, because it provides an alternative to getting drunk along with the option of getting both high and drunk.



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740600 is a reply to message #740593 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 10295
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:47

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 13:38


I stopped buying tickets and merchandise too. I'm contributing!

I have been buying mini packs of tickets for a very long time. My advance window was today. I used to get them with some other guys. The one guy I went with last year didn't want to buy so I bought 2 tickets for a 4 game pack for my family. My wife will take each one of our boys to a game, I will take each one of our boys to a game. She's excited, my boys are excited, I am excited. I don't think that makes me a bad person because I buy tickets which in turn support the Oilers. We want them to win all the games we go too but we get enjoyment out of going no matter what which is the main point.


Don't worry RDO, I'm not a socialist. I won't tell you how to spend your money. Btw, did you know there are sick children and refugees going without the basic necessities of life? How anyone can enjoy such frivolities as professional hockey when there is such suffering in the world is beyond me. Pay your carbon tax.

But seriously, spend your money how you want. You earned it.



This is fine.

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 Re: Oilers signed Archibald [message #740566 is a reply to message #740550 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2349
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

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Adam wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 08:17

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 09:12

So... is the strategy to sign whatever you can bottom 6'ers to see if one of them can rise up to be in a top 6 role?

...or is it the hope?!

It's the hope isn't it? Yeah... hope.


As mightyreasoner's suggested, Holland's strategy seems to mirror the one MacTavish had to corner the market on third pairing defencemen. I'm sure it will work just as well.


WheatNOil did some interesting work around this and posted to twitter yesterday. Basically looked at primary points/60 and attempted to rank guys according to what level of line they were producing at.

There's a bunch of tweets that go into more depth, and I suggest reading them all. But the main 2 takeaways are:

Quote:


@WheatNOil:
Oilers FWDs by 3-yr primary points/60 tiered into lines

1st Line: 97, Drai, RNH
2nd Line: None
3rd Line: Gagner, Archibald, Chiasson
4th Line: Lucic, Kassian, Granlund, Khaira, Cave, Jurco, Brodziak
Rookie/Small Sample: Nygard, Haas, Benson, Gambardella, Marody, Currie, Yamamoto



Quote:


@WheatNOil:
Here’s the thing: McDavid & Drai make a lot of money & they’ll cover the bet. When they make that much though, you need to have value contracts somewhere else. The Oilers don’t.

That Lucic contract buries them and they don’t have a lot of ELC sure-fires at forward.


Assuming that RNH drops down a line, who out of that bottom group is going to step up to produce on the 2nd line? Maybe Archibald, maybe Benson. Likely Chiasson gets some sort of push, but I'm really not sold on him.

My personal takeaway: trading RNH for anything other than a mint right now is crazy. As bad as that bottom 6 was/is, the Oilers aren't going anywhere without a functioning 2nd line and it just doesn't exist without RNH.

https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/1151230249369124864?s=2 0



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 262 GF / 257 GA (+5) after 55 games

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