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 Speculation » Oilers shopping Talbot?
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 Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723483]
Wed, 28 November 2018 12:29 Go to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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From Twitter:
Quote:

Per @frank_seravalli, it sounds like the Edmonton Oilers have made Cam Talbot available for trade.


Wonder if this is another of Chia’s now infamous mass emails. I bet this works just as well as every other time he’s tried it.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723484 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Just once I'd like to see a struggling player get support instead of sold at their lowest point.

Does Chiarelli not remember Anders Nilsson? We'd sure look stupid if Cam got traded during that hot streak.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723485 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George  is currently offline George
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A bit strange as Talbot is an UFA after this season. There's no long term cap hit and the Oilers won't get a better replacement for the rest of the year.

Maybe frees up money for Sekera if he comes back early?



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723498 is a reply to message #723485 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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George wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 13:17

A bit strange as Talbot is an UFA after this season. There's no long term cap hit and the Oilers won't get a better replacement for the rest of the year.

Maybe frees up money for Sekera if he comes back early?


You know that Talbot provides cap space, right? You know how much cap space is worth to Chia?

At least 15 goals per year.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723486 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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TreenasOil did tweet this out Saturday... just saying icon_wink

I mean, if it lands us a top 6 F or top 4 D, then sure. Koski looks like our starter. Would have to get Montoya up to be backup though he'd have to clear waivers, no?



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723499 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 12:29

From Twitter:
Quote:

Per @frank_seravalli, it sounds like the Edmonton Oilers have made Cam Talbot available for trade.


Wonder if this is another of Chia’s now infamous mass emails. I bet this works just as well as every other time he’s tried it.

I'd love to see Talbot given at least another 3-4 games under Hitch before the Oil even consider moving him. Also, Chia shouldn't be able to make any such deal on account of having been fired.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723500 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Apparently Seravalli was on Hockey PDOcast and carved Chiarelli. Said that Chia’s plan was to keep Bouchard all season, said he ruined the Bruins by mismanaging cap space and has now made the Oilers worse than they were. I haven’t heard the podcast yet (in the hospital still after the birth of my 3rd daughter currently) but it might be worth a listen. Sure wish someone in the local media had the courage to say those things...

Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723502 is a reply to message #723500 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 17:09

Apparently Seravalli was on Hockey PDOcast and carved Chiarelli. Said that Chia’s plan was to keep Bouchard all season, said he ruined the Bruins by mismanaging cap space and has now made the Oilers worse than they were. I haven’t heard the podcast yet (in the hospital still after the birth of my 3rd daughter currently) but it might be worth a listen. Sure wish someone in the local media had the courage to say those things...

Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...


Nice dysfunctional org we have if this is true. I guess the full comment was that Chia wanted Bouchard to stay, and McLellan's response was to play him very sparingly and keep him out of games until he was finally sent back to Jr.

McLellan sure never acted like Chia was his boss. He very likely was not and felt be answered to the OBC and NIcholson. Never appeared to be a very harmonious situation between those 2. It almost seemed that anything Chia said he wanted (Strome on the wing, Drai playing C to start 17/18, etc...) were things that instantly became black listed by McLellan.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723503 is a reply to message #723500 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 16:09


Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...


Whoa what??? I haven’t seen any interviews with TM posted anywhere???

Congrats on your 3rd btw.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723504 is a reply to message #723503 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 17:56

Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 16:09


Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...


Whoa what??? I haven’t seen any interviews with TM posted anywhere???

Congrats on your 3rd btw.


These kind of stories have come out again and again (the Seravalli bit did indeed say that Chia wanted him up, but McLellan didn’t think he was ready and it took healthy scratching him in 4 straight to convince Chia to move him down) and Friedman said he’s not gone quietly (and then was super vague on the 31 Thoughts podcast about how he didn’t go quietly). I don’t expect we will see anything publicly said by McLellan. It goes against the culture in the NHL for a fired coach to be critical of the team that fired him. However he can go to his buddies in the media, of which he seems to have many, and share embarrassing stories. It has a plausible deniability to it, and it probably increases his chances of getting another coaching gig if people believe that he was hamstrung by an incompetent GM (and the Red Wine Club).



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723507 is a reply to message #723503 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 16:56

Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 16:09


Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...


Whoa what??? I haven’t seen any interviews with TM posted anywhere???

Congrats on your 3rd btw.


McLellan is still under contract with the Oilers, so he won’t make any official statements and risk losing any free money paychecks he’s contractually obligated to receive. So anything leaked is going to be anonymized.

As far as Talbot, you keep him unless you get a desperate GM that wants to throw some good pieces your way you can’t refuse. Even if he is only playing backup level, I like Kosk-Talbot 100x better than Kosk-“anyone else in the Oilers org.”

Also huge congrats on your newest addition to the roster, Adam!

[Updated on: Wed, 28 November 2018 21:23]


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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723505 is a reply to message #723500 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 17:09

Apparently Seravalli was on Hockey PDOcast and carved Chiarelli. Said that Chia’s plan was to keep Bouchard all season, said he ruined the Bruins by mismanaging cap space and has now made the Oilers worse than they were. I haven’t heard the podcast yet (in the hospital still after the birth of my 3rd daughter currently) but it might be worth a listen. Sure wish someone in the local media had the courage to say those things...

Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...

Jesus, way to bury the lead Adam. Congratulations to you and your wife. Word of advice, you can't win against the kids using mad defense now. Switch to a zone.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723506 is a reply to message #723505 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 20:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 17:09

Apparently Seravalli was on Hockey PDOcast and carved Chiarelli. Said that Chia’s plan was to keep Bouchard all season, said he ruined the Bruins by mismanaging cap space and has now made the Oilers worse than they were. I haven’t heard the podcast yet (in the hospital still after the birth of my 3rd daughter currently) but it might be worth a listen. Sure wish someone in the local media had the courage to say those things...

Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...

Jesus, way to bury the lead Adam. Congratulations to you and your wife. Word of advice, you can't win against the kids using mad defense now. Switch to a zone.


Indeed, congrats Adam on bringing another child into the world that gets to experience being an Oilers fan :)



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723576 is a reply to message #723506 ]
Thu, 29 November 2018 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 20:39

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 20:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 17:09

Apparently Seravalli was on Hockey PDOcast and carved Chiarelli. Said that Chia’s plan was to keep Bouchard all season, said he ruined the Bruins by mismanaging cap space and has now made the Oilers worse than they were. I haven’t heard the podcast yet (in the hospital still after the birth of my 3rd daughter currently) but it might be worth a listen. Sure wish someone in the local media had the courage to say those things...

Interesting though, because apparently McLellan is spilling all the dirt to any reporter who’ll listen to him now...I don’t think that Bouchard story is coming out of no where...

Jesus, way to bury the lead Adam. Congratulations to you and your wife. Word of advice, you can't win against the kids using mad defense now. Switch to a zone.


Indeed, congrats Adam on bringing another child into the world that gets to experience being an Oilers fan :)

Hopefully, the 3rd child gets to grow up in a world where the Oil are a good team again instead of knowing them only as losers like his other children have had to suffer through, the 2016-17 season aside.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723501 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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This is a poor idea. I don't see a trade scenario where the goaltending tandem isn't downgraded. If/when the season becomes a write-off, sure trade em' both. Until then, don't do anything stupid.


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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723577 is a reply to message #723501 ]
Thu, 29 November 2018 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 17:46

This is a poor idea. I don't see a trade scenario where the goaltending tandem isn't downgraded. If/when the season becomes a write-off, sure trade em' both. Until then, don't do anything stupid.

At the least, let Hitch work his magic on Talbot so that at least his value is higher should the question of trading him comes up down the road.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723611 is a reply to message #723577 ]
Fri, 30 November 2018 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently online GabbyDugan
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...from The Hockey Writers site...

https://thehockeywriters.com/edmonton-oilers-consider-tradin g-talbot/

....another limited no-trade clause that handcuffs Oilers management....not that I think any NHL team would take a chance on Talbot right now, weird stuff happens at the trade deadline....and a change of scenery and a different defense in front of him just might rejuvenate Talbot the way Winnipeg's defense has done for Brossoit....of course, the Oilers would have to get a reliable goalie themselves for the stretch run (if there is such a thing these days)....Al Montoya sure isn't the answer....




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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723612 is a reply to message #723611 ]
Fri, 30 November 2018 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 30 November 2018 10:22

...from The Hockey Writers site...

https://thehockeywriters.com/edmonton-oilers-consider-tradin g-talbot/

....another limited no-trade clause that handcuffs Oilers management....not that I think any NHL team would take a chance on Talbot right now, weird stuff happens at the trade deadline....and a change of scenery and a different defense in front of him just might rejuvenate Talbot the way Winnipeg's defense has done for Brossoit....of course, the Oilers would have to get a reliable goalie themselves for the stretch run (if there is such a thing these days)....Al Montoya sure isn't the answer....


This would be pretty dumb timing to trade Talbot. Let the guy have a fresh start under Hitch and a new defensive system. He looked fine against LA. Brain dead play costed us that game, not him. Take it slow, let him and the team get the mental reset, and he could get back to his old ways for us.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723508 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Wed, 28 November 2018 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Classic Chiarelli/Oilers .. wait until you value your asset the least (as will everyone else), then trade him for a box of donuts.

Spooner is looking like a major bust, lose a decent 3rd line center, that won't kill you on goals against, and now you are screwing around with your roster trying to find a line where Spooner can actually produce something..



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724205 is a reply to message #723508 ]
Thu, 06 December 2018 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 23:53

Classic Chiarelli/Oilers .. wait until you value your asset the least (as will everyone else), then trade him for a box of donuts.

Spooner is looking like a major bust, lose a decent 3rd line center, that won't kill you on goals against, and now you are screwing around with your roster trying to find a line where Spooner can actually produce something..


Question for you regarding you complaining about the "classic Chia/Oilers" comment. I am all for trading guys when their value is high but when exactly would you have liked the Oilers to trade Talbot? He sucked from game 2 on last year and was lousy the entire season then he has followed it up with being lousy the whole year so far this season. The last time Talbot's value was high was a the end of the 16-17 when they got screwed out of the Western Conference. So is that when you would have been OK with trading Talbot?

I am perfectly fine with throwing a lot of heat towards Chia. His finger prints are all over the problems of this team but when exactly has the team been able to get Talbot's value up? They have given him plenty of time and starts to figure it out. If someone wants to say the defense isn't good enough, that's 100% correct but Talbot can't make a bloody save. He's a free agent in 5 months. I am currently not comfortable offering Talbot another contract so if that is the case, get something for him.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724211 is a reply to message #724205 ]
Thu, 06 December 2018 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently online GabbyDugan
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....not sure that it's time to completely give up on Talbot...I know it's dumb to read very much into one game against a below .500, injury- riddled opponent like St. Louis last night, but I thought Talbot was pretty good once he got settled in and the defense in front of him got their wake-up call...he looked like he was regaining some confidence, topped off by the shoot out once the Oilers got the upper hand...

....what would the market be like for Talbot right now? Who would replace Talbot for the rest of the season (don't think Montoya is the answer, and Starrett, Wells and Skinner are a few years away, if they ever do make it to the NHL)...Does Koskinen have what it takes to keep up the pace, or will opponents figure him out as he plays? What NHL team has a useful, reliable goalie they would be willing to trade, given the rate of injury to NHL goalies this season?...

...while I agree that getting something for Talbot would be great, and at this point can't see him getting a new deal from the Oilers for next season, I think he should stay put herein Edmonton for now...




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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724212 is a reply to message #724211 ]
Thu, 06 December 2018 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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I agree - I see absolutely no good reason to trade Talbot. He's worth way more to us (if he can get back close to the level he was 2 years ago) than any team will pay. It'll be good to have two guys pushing each other, and it we were to make the playoffs (can't believe this is even in question at this point...) you need a solid backup.


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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724320 is a reply to message #724212 ]
Sat, 08 December 2018 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Mike wrote on Thu, 06 December 2018 09:50

I agree - I see absolutely no good reason to trade Talbot. He's worth way more to us (if he can get back close to the level he was 2 years ago) than any team will pay. It'll be good to have two guys pushing each other, and it we were to make the playoffs (can't believe this is even in question at this point...) you need a solid backup.

I think we need to get what we can for him when the time is right. Does anyone see him being a part of this team after this season? I dont, especially if Koski continues to bloom.

They are both 30 years old. Im never a fan of having two goalies the same age on a team. Its okay if they are both under 25 but either way your going to have to make a decision at some point which to keep.

If Talbots game finds consistency and we can get a fair return we gotta do it. As I said I dont see him being a Oiler next season. It all comes down to asset management. Better to get a little bit of a return then nothing at all.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724325 is a reply to message #724320 ]
Sat, 08 December 2018 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 08 December 2018 11:41

Mike wrote on Thu, 06 December 2018 09:50

I agree - I see absolutely no good reason to trade Talbot. He's worth way more to us (if he can get back close to the level he was 2 years ago) than any team will pay. It'll be good to have two guys pushing each other, and it we were to make the playoffs (can't believe this is even in question at this point...) you need a solid backup.

I think we need to get what we can for him when the time is right. Does anyone see him being a part of this team after this season? I dont, especially if Koski continues to bloom.

They are both 30 years old. Im never a fan of having two goalies the same age on a team. Its okay if they are both under 25 but either way your going to have to make a decision at some point which to keep.

If Talbots game finds consistency and we can get a fair return we gotta do it. As I said I dont see him being a Oiler next season. It all comes down to asset management. Better to get a little bit of a return then nothing at all.


Depends on A) what that return is and B) whether the Oilers have a shot at the playoffs this year. Trading him for a fourth round pick with 8 weeks left in the season looks really bad if Koskinen gets hurt and Montoya falls flat in relief. Good teams tend to have two good goalies, because otherwise an injury can end your season (See Conklin, Ty and the 2006 Stanley Cup Finals).



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724328 is a reply to message #724325 ]
Sat, 08 December 2018 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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With Talbot getting his game back (it appears) the value for any possible trade is move him for jumps up. Bouncing between Kosk and Talbot for the remainder of the season gives us a much better chance consistently winning and not throwing games away with a mediocre backup winning 1/3 of their games. I don’t see a return for Talbot that would make up the difference.


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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724332 is a reply to message #724328 ]
Sat, 08 December 2018 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The ideal target would be a playoff bubble team without a real starting goalie. Perhaps we could get a back up and a 2nd or third rounder. Not sure which teams those would be yet.


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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724334 is a reply to message #724332 ]
Sat, 08 December 2018 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 08 December 2018 16:29

The ideal target would be a playoff bubble team without a real starting goalie. Perhaps we could get a back up and a 2nd or third rounder. Not sure which teams those would be yet.


The problem with that is those teams are not going to give up any players that can help now. They will only trade prospects or picks.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #724335 is a reply to message #724334 ]
Sat, 08 December 2018 20:25 Go to previous message
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Pseudoreality wrote on Sat, 08 December 2018 19:21

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 08 December 2018 16:29

The ideal target would be a playoff bubble team without a real starting goalie. Perhaps we could get a back up and a 2nd or third rounder. Not sure which teams those would be yet.


The problem with that is those teams are not going to give up any players that can help now. They will only trade prospects or picks.


“We’re 3 points shy of a playoff spot, let’s move our best D man for a goalie.” Yeah I don’t see that either. We need a desperate GM on the bubble of getting fired, and I’m only aware of one, and quite frankly I don’t trust Chia to trade sandwiches in the lunchroom at this point.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723701 is a reply to message #723483 ]
Fri, 30 November 2018 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 12:29

From Twitter:
Quote:

Per @frank_seravalli, it sounds like the Edmonton Oilers have made Cam Talbot available for trade.


Wonder if this is another of Chia’s now infamous mass emails. I bet this works just as well as every other time he’s tried it.


Congrats on the new edition Adam, that's probably why you went dark a few days back?

I don't think this is a big revelation, Seravalli could just be musing and he'd still turn out to be right. Yeah I get all the sentiment on selling low on an asset, but does anyone see extending or re-signing Talbot at this point? Does he go for nothing but cap space on an expired contract?

I think they certainly have to get things rectified with him if they can, but I don't think they're comfortable with another contract unless his game turns around pretty quickly and significantly. The arrows would point toward a return on an asset prior to the deadline. This can't really be a secret to anyone in NHL hockey, I wouldn't think.

That's where it is with Cam Talbot, and his career is trending toward 50/50 with the Oilers....50 decent to very good, 50 sub-par. Put the work in on the offseason according to him, but the results don't reflect a reward for him or the Oilers.

The worrisome thing for me is there is not a large sample size of Koskinen success here, and no one young or old in the organization that's going to come and be a confidence-inducing backup...but at the same time yes you have guys that can come in and give you an .885 SV% (whatever the number is).

Personally I'd like Talbot to find his stride and extended for a couple years at similar numbers. Got my doubts that'll happen.



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 Re: Oilers shopping Talbot? [message #723734 is a reply to message #723701 ]
Sat, 01 December 2018 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9773
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 30 November 2018 22:00

Adam wrote on Wed, 28 November 2018 12:29

From Twitter:
Quote:

Per @frank_seravalli, it sounds like the Edmonton Oilers have made Cam Talbot available for trade.


Wonder if this is another of Chia’s now infamous mass emails. I bet this works just as well as every other time he’s tried it.


Congrats on the new edition Adam, that's probably why you went dark a few days back?

I don't think this is a big revelation, Seravalli could just be musing and he'd still turn out to be right. Yeah I get all the sentiment on selling low on an asset, but does anyone see extending or re-signing Talbot at this point? Does he go for nothing but cap space on an expired contract?

I think they certainly have to get things rectified with him if they can, but I don't think they're comfortable with another contract unless his game turns around pretty quickly and significantly. The arrows would point toward a return on an asset prior to the deadline. This can't really be a secret to anyone in NHL hockey, I wouldn't think.

That's where it is with Cam Talbot, and his career is trending toward 50/50 with the Oilers....50 decent to very good, 50 sub-par. Put the work in on the offseason according to him, but the results don't reflect a reward for him or the Oilers.

The worrisome thing for me is there is not a large sample size of Koskinen success here, and no one young or old in the organization that's going to come and be a confidence-inducing backup...but at the same time yes you have guys that can come in and give you an .885 SV% (whatever the number is).

Personally I'd like Talbot to find his stride and extended for a couple years at similar numbers. Got my doubts that'll happen.


Thanks!

As for Talbot, I don't think anyone's taking a $4MM goalie who's struggling at any premium right now. To trade him now is to get some future considerations and/or cap space or an aging veteran player who's way overpaid (like Dubnyk for Hendricks).

I still have no confidence in Koskinen remaining as hot as he's started, and I'd hate to see the Oilers deal Talbot for nothing, only to see them scrambling to stay in the mix with a Toskinen/Montoya tandem.

I think Talbot has more value to the Oilers than anything we're likely to get for him - even if we lose him for nothing in the summer.



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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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