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 Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718905]
Sun, 23 September 2018 10:55 Go to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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Location: Edmonton, AB

2 Cups

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/morning-skate-report-oilers- at-jets/c-300343202

Goaltenders

MIkko Koskinen

Al Montoya

Forwards

Jujhar Khaira

Ryan Strome

Zack Kassian

Tobias Rieder

Ryan McLeod

Kailer Yamamoto

Pontus Aberg

Cooper Marody

Brad Malone

Drake Caggiula

Kyle Brodziak

Zack Kassian

Defencemen

Darnell Nurse

Matt Benning

Ethan Bear

Jakub Jerabek

Jason Garrison

Kevin Gravel

....the Jets lineup....

WINNIPEG JETS

Goaltenders

1 Eric Comrie

37 Connor Hellebuyck

Defence

3 Tucker Poolman

5 Dmitry Kulikov

6 Cameron Schilling

33 Dustin Byfuglien

57 Tyler Myers

70 Joe Morrow

Forwards

18 Bryan Little

26 Blake Wheeler

29 Patrik Laine

45 Dennis Everberg

55 Mark Scheifele

58 Jansen Harkins

73 C.J. Suess

76 Skyler McKenzie

81 Kyle Connor

82 Mason Appleton

85 Mathieu Perreault

86 Kristian Reichel

[Updated on: Sun, 23 September 2018 11:29]



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718907 is a reply to message #718905 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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5 Cups

Jets A squad vs Oilers B squad, we gonna take a beating.


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718908 is a reply to message #718907 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
messier11  is currently offline messier11
Messages: 262
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Location: Manitoba

No Cups

I got tickets for tonight, sort of disappointing to see a sketchy squad like this. You’d think they’d throw a player or two that is guaranteed a roster sot but maybe this is how Winnipeg felt on Thursday


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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718909 is a reply to message #718905 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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Hmm. The feed I’m watching went from Danny Gallivans granddad to Jack Micheals at the 11:00 mark.

If that was the Jets radio guy, I feel bad for Winnipeg.



#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718912 is a reply to message #718909 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goffer48  is currently offline goffer48
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No Cups

Game's on Shaw 351


-Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
-Don't mess with old folks, they didn't get old by being stupid.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718913 is a reply to message #718912 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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4 Cups

goffer48 wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 18:47

Game's on Shaw 351


Oh,it totally is. Well, no need to dig for a reddit stream then.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718915 is a reply to message #718913 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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NetBOG wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 19:05

goffer48 wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 18:47

Game's on Shaw 351


Oh,it totally is. Well, no need to dig for a reddit stream then.


And I'm having flashbacks to the Shayne Corson Oilers with Dennis Beyak doing play-by-play



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718911 is a reply to message #718905 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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6 Cups

Nice bomb from Bear.

2-1 Bakersfield+



#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718914 is a reply to message #718911 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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g2k wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 17:32

Nice bomb from Bear.

2-1 Bakersfield+


Jets coaching staff fired if they don’t win this one.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718916 is a reply to message #718914 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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nullterm wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 19:06

g2k wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 17:32

Nice bomb from Bear.

2-1 Bakersfield+


Jets coaching staff fired if they don’t win this one.

Or at least promoted.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718918 is a reply to message #718916 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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5 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 19:12

nullterm wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 19:06

g2k wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 17:32

Nice bomb from Bear.

2-1 Bakersfield+


Jets coaching staff fired if they don’t win this one.

Or at least promoted.


I think that’s only an Oilers alumni perk.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718917 is a reply to message #718905 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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No Cups

Oilers out shooting the jets 2-1 and down 5-2 Haven't watched much of it but is our new goalie not very good?


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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718920 is a reply to message #718917 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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2 Cups

overdue wrote on Sun, 23 September 2018 20:17

Oilers out shooting the jets 2-1 and down 5-2 Haven't watched much of it but is our new goalie not very good?


Well, at one point when I was watching it was 3 goals on 8 shots although the Oilers had 24 shots on net.



CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718921 is a reply to message #718905 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
messier11  is currently offline messier11
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No Cups

If Koskinen is our backup I hope they are planning on playing Talbot in 84 games this year. Man, either he was nervous as hell or he sucks. If you get to see the replay you’ll notice he doesn’t leave the goal line at all, it’s like he is tied to the posts. Even when the play is away from him he is just stuck to the line, it’s weird.

Guys that I thought played well were Yamamoto and Nurse, I noticed Jerabek and Puljujarvi every once in awhile but no one was a match for the Jets top line. It was a weird game because no one really stood out good or bad.

The interesting part was the shot count, the Oilers really put the shots to Helly and they weren’t all junk, there were quality chances and the Jets fans around me were nervous for awhile.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718922 is a reply to message #718921 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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2 Cups

I really thought Puljujarvi stood out. Yams too, but more specifically #98. Had confidence on both sides of the puck. Still looks awkward when he shoots but he was the best Finn on the ice in my opinion.

Toskinen better be shipped off back to the KHL ASAP. Brutal.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718923 is a reply to message #718905 ]
Sun, 23 September 2018 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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6 Cups

McLeod played well, made things happen, and was pretty good in his own end, playing center. Did a much more effective job than Caggilula.. I think McLeod could even make the team, Caggiula so far not providing any reason to keep him on the roster.

Bear looked good both ways, Gravel was OK, made a bad pinch for one GA, but we were down by 2 so he took a chance.

Puljujarvi continues to impress...

Koskinen? ... oh boy..

How many of those free agent KHL or Euro-league pro signings have the Oilers ever cashed in on?






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Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718925 is a reply to message #718923 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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No Cups

Were the goals really Koskinen's fault? One timer from the slot from a wide open Scheifele, deflection by McKenzie on his first goal, cross ice tap-ins on McKenzie and Scheifele's second goals. Only one he was straight out beat was the Wheeler goal, that was a pretty nice shot. Was it really that bad?


Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 March 2021 18:49

Turris in the BOA will be like an ice cube in the Sahara.

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718926 is a reply to message #718925 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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OilPeg wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 07:50

Were the goals really Koskinen's fault? One timer from the slot from a wide open Scheifele, deflection by McKenzie on his first goal, cross ice tap-ins on McKenzie and Scheifele's second goals. Only one he was straight out beat was the Wheeler goal, that was a pretty nice shot. Was it really that bad?


Yeah, D was getting picked apart. I don't really blame Koskinen for any goals last night. Maybe Wheeler one he had a shot on. Could have maybe stopped the cross crease pass on the last one, but happened quick and he still has to worry about the shot.


Was nice to see Pulju and Yams still rolling out there. Pulju had a strong game again, although no statistical rewards. He's near the top for possession stats for the oilers this pre-season. Remaining hopeful about the right side, especially if Rattie can keep going full Guentzel for us.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718927 is a reply to message #718925 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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6 Cups

I know Koskinen is going to take some heat for last night just because Oilers fans like to eat their own young. I personally do not know what to think of him yet other than he is making a lot of money to be a backup, they need him to be good. But at the same, I don't know how anyone assess him with a line up that was in front of him. He had 2 legit NHL dmen, that's it.

Jerabek so far has been terrible. Supposedly based on the assessment from others teams coverage people that I heard on the various Oilers related shows, he is an OK bottom pairing guy. Well I wouldn't have him on the team. Maybe be goes to the AHL and find his game but, not good.

Garrison is on a PTO and can't skate. He's not a full time NHLer anymore.

Gravel I thought was decent for most of the game, not so good in the 3rd. Realistically, he's a 6-7, probably a 7.

Bear is close to being and NHLer . He is definitely an NHLer offensively, defensively might need more seasoning in the AHL.

Then you factor in they played an entire line that should be in the AHL. Aberg is not a full time NHLer. Marody I think will play but need some AHL time and Malone is a career AHLer who all he does is give the puck away and take penalties. Then you have McLeod who looks like a legit NHLer but he's not ready. So they dress their starting 3rd line in Khaira-Strome-JP who I thought were quite good and their 4th line in Caggulia - Brodziak- Kassian who I thought played decent but when you are going up against a really good teams #1 & #2 lines, it's not supposed to be close and surprisingly, they did alright. I am sure the goal of the team was not to get blowout like the Jets did in Edmonton and they achieved that which I guess is great but other than that, I don't see them getting a lot of good evaluation on Koskinen.

I am not trying to stick up for Koskinen because I am not. All I want is the best team possible and that include the back up. They NEED a good back up. But all 5 of those goal, I don't think he had a chance in hell of saving them. They were giving up 2-1's and cross seam 15ft one timers, those are rarely stopped by the best in the world. So if I was the Oilers, I would give Koskinen another start. Do you really need to give Montoya a game? What do you need to see that you don't already know? Montoya is a 33 yr old, mediocre at best career backup with parts of 9 seasons of evidence in the NHL to look at.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718928 is a reply to message #718927 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
messier11  is currently offline messier11
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No Cups

I can’t say that Koskinen was to blame for the for all the goals, I do think he could have had 2 of them. The PP goals where due to a legit first line PP going up against border liners and poor Koskinen looking like he didn’t even know what to do.

My beef was more with his body language, when you are at the game you can see a lot more of the goalie and he looked like someone told him the ice outside the crease was a mine field. He really was trying to keep his feet on the goal line, even when the play was down the ice.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718939 is a reply to message #718923 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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From what I've seen I really like the Mcleod kid. He doesn't look out of place at all for such a young player and has a good head for the game. He's a keeper but probably not this season. Thought that most of the team played really well. Some positives to take out of that game for sure just in the confidence they showed when up against some pretty good NHL players and a very good goalie. I think the influence of the new coaching staff is showing already. Might take awhile for Koskenin to get comfortable,( it happens.)


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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718932 is a reply to message #718905 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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I don't have patience for Koskinen.. I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough to push Talbot.

I hope it's a hot take, but he has proved to be a challenge to get behind. 1 great save.. the rest? Soft.



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718934 is a reply to message #718932 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:17

I don't have patience for Koskinen.. I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough to push Talbot.

I hope it's a hot take, but he has proved to be a challenge to get behind. 1 great save.. the rest? Soft.


I've heard a comment from a few people now about how deep in the net Koskinen stays. I've long wondered if really big goalies excel at lower leagues simply because shooters don't have the same aiming ability. A big guy like that takes away so much of the net that if you can't pick the holes, you'll hit him a lot of times. I theorize that at the NHL level, shooters are just that extra level of elite and simply being big isn't enough to keep the puck out.

I thought that about Dubnyk when he first got to the NHL. He seemed also to play pretty deep and to try to rely on his size, but it took him a while to adjust. The issue here is that while we had Dubnyk from a very young age, we have Koskinen at 30 years old. If he's not adjusting very quickly, he's never going to.

I'm not very confident in the signing yet. How's the KHL guy that Colorado signed the next day for 30% of the salary working out?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718948 is a reply to message #718934 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve  is currently offline Steve
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 08:26

Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:17

I don't have patience for Koskinen.. I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough to push Talbot.

I hope it's a hot take, but he has proved to be a challenge to get behind. 1 great save.. the rest? Soft.


I've heard a comment from a few people now about how deep in the net Koskinen stays. I've long wondered if really big goalies excel at lower leagues simply because shooters don't have the same aiming ability. A big guy like that takes away so much of the net that if you can't pick the holes, you'll hit him a lot of times. I theorize that at the NHL level, shooters are just that extra level of elite and simply being big isn't enough to keep the puck out.

I thought that about Dubnyk when he first got to the NHL. He seemed also to play pretty deep and to try to rely on his size, but it took him a while to adjust. The issue here is that while we had Dubnyk from a very young age, we have Koskinen at 30 years old. If he's not adjusting very quickly, he's never going to.

I'm not very confident in the signing yet. How's the KHL guy that Colorado signed the next day for 30% of the salary working out?


Dubnyk has decent agility for a big man. Koskinen? I'm not seeing it. From the small sample size that I have seen, Koskinen has struggled with his skating and his puck tracking. He often isn't square to the shot. The poor puck tracking could be due to "rust", transitioning the NA ice, etc. and can improve as time goes on. Despite the goals last night, he did appear to improve from his 1st game. Skating is a different issue. He's 30 years old and not likely to improve in that area. I think he plays deep because he doesn't have the skating ability to make quick movements outside the crease (forward/back, cross-crease). You definitively don't want to skate too much. You can get yourself out of position and it can be tiring. But Koskinen isn't doing enough of it to be solid NHL goalie.



"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718954 is a reply to message #718934 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:26

Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:17

I don't have patience for Koskinen.. I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough to push Talbot.

I hope it's a hot take, but he has proved to be a challenge to get behind. 1 great save.. the rest? Soft.


I've heard a comment from a few people now about how deep in the net Koskinen stays. I've long wondered if really big goalies excel at lower leagues simply because shooters don't have the same aiming ability. A big guy like that takes away so much of the net that if you can't pick the holes, you'll hit him a lot of times. I theorize that at the NHL level, shooters are just that extra level of elite and simply being big isn't enough to keep the puck out.

I thought that about Dubnyk when he first got to the NHL. He seemed also to play pretty deep and to try to rely on his size, but it took him a while to adjust. The issue here is that while we had Dubnyk from a very young age, we have Koskinen at 30 years old. If he's not adjusting very quickly, he's never going to.

I'm not very confident in the signing yet. How's the KHL guy that Colorado signed the next day for 30% of the salary working out?


THe good news is, these things can be fixed by good goalie coaching. And thankfully we did a hockey world wide very in depth search when we hired the best man for the job Dustin Schwartz.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718936 is a reply to message #718932 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:17

I don't have patience for Koskinen.. I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough to push Talbot.

I hope it's a hot take, but he has proved to be a challenge to get behind. 1 great save.. the rest? Soft.


On a quality team you don't need the backup to PUSH the starter. You just need him to be good enough that playing him doesnt mean a likely loss.
This allows you to play a normal goalie rotation, giving the starter the night off on back to back and the like.

If Talbot gets back to the form of two seasons ago the Oilers just need a backup to let him not have to play 72 games.

I am no goalie expert but I saw one game where he was very bad(Flames) and one where he was ok (Jets).

A couple of goals last night were savable but would have been great saves. None were flat out terrible goals.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718938 is a reply to message #718936 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:28

Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:17

I don't have patience for Koskinen.. I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough to push Talbot.

I hope it's a hot take, but he has proved to be a challenge to get behind. 1 great save.. the rest? Soft.


On a quality team you don't need the backup to PUSH the starter. You just need him to be good enough that playing him doesnt mean a likely loss.
This allows you to play a normal goalie rotation, giving the starter the night off on back to back and the like.

If Talbot gets back to the form of two seasons ago the Oilers just need a backup to let him not have to play 72 games.

I am no goalie expert but I saw one game where he was very bad(Flames) and one where he was ok (Jets).

A couple of goals last night were savable but would have been great saves. None were flat out terrible goals.


It will be interesting to see how this has turned out. He's the 5th backup bet in four years for Chiarelli, and Chia's batting average is horrible:

Anders Nilsson - 26 GP 10-12-2 Sv % 0.901 GAA 3.14
Jonas Gustavsson - 7 GP 1-3-1 Sv% 0.878 GAA 3.10
Laurent Brossoit - 28 GP 7-13-2 Sv% 0.897 GAA 2.97 (that's his aggregate stats - last yr when officially the backup were even worse - 0.883 and 3.24)
Al Montoya - 9 GP 2-2-2 Sv% 0.906 GAA 2.94

With Montoya, the Oilers even gave up a draft pick - and then upgraded that pick for Montreal by playing him in more than 6 games, despite the fact the team was out of the playoffs and Brossoit was healthy, still in the organization and could have been losing those matches for us just as capably!

Repeated stunning management fails regarding back-up 'tenders to date means that anyone skeptical of Koskinen has a pretty good reason to be. And with the contract that the Oilers gave him, we can't even say he was a cheap option...that is a deal you give to someone you DO expect to push your starting netminder.

The danger here early is that we've seen before how quick a back-up can lose the confidence of McLellan. He's happy to ride his starter hard anyhow, and so another bad exhibition game, and the Oilers are likely to be gun-shy to start their back-up. That means another year where they overplay the starter, risking injury. And if Talbot is hurt, and Koskinen sucks or is rusty because the coach never plays him, then we can sink the season pretty fast.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718943 is a reply to message #718938 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:47

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:28

Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:17

I don't have patience for Koskinen.. I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough to push Talbot.

I hope it's a hot take, but he has proved to be a challenge to get behind. 1 great save.. the rest? Soft.


On a quality team you don't need the backup to PUSH the starter. You just need him to be good enough that playing him doesnt mean a likely loss.
This allows you to play a normal goalie rotation, giving the starter the night off on back to back and the like.

If Talbot gets back to the form of two seasons ago the Oilers just need a backup to let him not have to play 72 games.

I am no goalie expert but I saw one game where he was very bad(Flames) and one where he was ok (Jets).

A couple of goals last night were savable but would have been great saves. None were flat out terrible goals.


It will be interesting to see how this has turned out. He's the 5th backup bet in four years for Chiarelli, and Chia's batting average is horrible:

Anders Nilsson - 26 GP 10-12-2 Sv % 0.901 GAA 3.14
Jonas Gustavsson - 7 GP 1-3-1 Sv% 0.878 GAA 3.10
Laurent Brossoit - 28 GP 7-13-2 Sv% 0.897 GAA 2.97 (that's his aggregate stats - last yr when officially the backup were even worse - 0.883 and 3.24)
Al Montoya - 9 GP 2-2-2 Sv% 0.906 GAA 2.94

With Montoya, the Oilers even gave up a draft pick - and then upgraded that pick for Montreal by playing him in more than 6 games, despite the fact the team was out of the playoffs and Brossoit was healthy, still in the organization and could have been losing those matches for us just as capably!

Repeated stunning management fails regarding back-up 'tenders to date means that anyone skeptical of Koskinen has a pretty good reason to be. And with the contract that the Oilers gave him, we can't even say he was a cheap option...that is a deal you give to someone you DO expect to push your starting netminder.

The danger here early is that we've seen before how quick a back-up can lose the confidence of McLellan. He's happy to ride his starter hard anyhow, and so another bad exhibition game, and the Oilers are likely to be gun-shy to start their back-up. That means another year where they overplay the starter, risking injury. And if Talbot is hurt, and Koskinen sucks or is rusty because the coach never plays him, then we can sink the season pretty fast.


I agree that our history of backup goaltending is terrible.

My point was that as fans I don't think we need to judge potential backups on pushing Talbot, stealing games, etc.

To me a backup needs to save the savable ones and not give up goals so bad that the team is demoralized early in a game.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718944 is a reply to message #718943 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 10:17


I agree that our history of backup goaltending is terrible.

My point was that as fans I don't think we need to judge potential backups on pushing Talbot, stealing games, etc.

To me a backup needs to save the savable ones and not give up goals so bad that the team is demoralized early in a game.


I think historically that may have been the case, but now you very rarely see the Cup lifted by a team who makes their starter play over 60-65 games. That means you need at minimum 17-22 starts from your back-up. If they don't maintain a winning percentage close to what the starter has, that can have a really negative impact on your team.

Here's the back-ups for the last seven champs:

2018 Caps - Philip Grubauer 35 GP 15-10-3 0.923 2.35
2017 Pens - M. A. Fleury 38 GP 18-10-7 0.909 3.02
2016 Pens - Matt Murray 13 GP 9-2-1 0.930 2.00/Jeff Zatkoff 14 GP 4-7-1, 0.917, 2.79
2015 Hawks - Antti Raanta 14 GP 7-4-1 0.936, 1.89/Scott Darling 14GP 9-4-0, 0.936, 1.94
2014 Kings - Martin Jones 19 GP 12-6-0, .0934, 1.81/Ben Scrivens 19 GP 7-5-4 0.931, 1.97
2013 Hawks - Ray Emery 36 GP 17-1-0, 0.922, 1.94
2012 Kings - Jonathan Bernier 16 GP 5-6-2, 0.908, 2.36

2012 was the last time a goalie saw over 60 starts as Quick started 68 games that year. It's an anomaly. I think Fleury in 2008-09 is the only other guy to play over 60 and win the Cup since the big lockout in 2004-05.

Most of these teams have a very capable back-up, and for some of these teams, they've had really good third goalies too. Some of those numbers are definitely impacted by the quality of the teams in front of them, but even so - good teams tend to have quality second netminders that don't cost them games.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718946 is a reply to message #718944 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 10:36

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 10:17


I agree that our history of backup goaltending is terrible.

My point was that as fans I don't think we need to judge potential backups on pushing Talbot, stealing games, etc.

To me a backup needs to save the savable ones and not give up goals so bad that the team is demoralized early in a game.


I think historically that may have been the case, but now you very rarely see the Cup lifted by a team who makes their starter play over 60-65 games. That means you need at minimum 17-22 starts from your back-up. If they don't maintain a winning percentage close to what the starter has, that can have a really negative impact on your team.

Here's the back-ups for the last seven champs:

2018 Caps - Philip Grubauer 35 GP 15-10-3 0.923 2.35
2017 Pens - M. A. Fleury 38 GP 18-10-7 0.909 3.02
2016 Pens - Matt Murray 13 GP 9-2-1 0.930 2.00/Jeff Zatkoff 14 GP 4-7-1, 0.917, 2.79
2015 Hawks - Antti Raanta 14 GP 7-4-1 0.936, 1.89/Scott Darling 14GP 9-4-0, 0.936, 1.94
2014 Kings - Martin Jones 19 GP 12-6-0, .0934, 1.81/Ben Scrivens 19 GP 7-5-4 0.931, 1.97
2013 Hawks - Ray Emery 36 GP 17-1-0, 0.922, 1.94
2012 Kings - Jonathan Bernier 16 GP 5-6-2, 0.908, 2.36

2012 was the last time a goalie saw over 60 starts as Quick started 68 games that year. It's an anomaly. I think Fleury in 2008-09 is the only other guy to play over 60 and win the Cup since the big lockout in 2004-05.

Most of these teams have a very capable back-up, and for some of these teams, they've had really good third goalies too. Some of those numbers are definitely impacted by the quality of the teams in front of them, but even so - good teams tend to have quality second netminders that don't cost them games.



Easy now Adam, baby steps.
Of course the goal is a cup contender but the realistic step for this team is playoff contention. They are, by my count, at least 4-5 upgrades/key pieces away from really being a contender of any quality.

As far as the reality of this season is concerned. If they have a backup that gives them a chance at a win it would go a long way into making a run at a wild card spot. As you point out the recent backups have all been pretty bad and some terrible. Giving Talbot some needed rest from time to time without forfeiting a game would be a good step forward.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718947 is a reply to message #718946 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 10:51


Easy now Adam, baby steps.
Of course the goal is a cup contender but the realistic step for this team is playoff contention. They are, by my count, at least 4-5 upgrades/key pieces away from really being a contender of any quality.

As far as the reality of this season is concerned. If they have a backup that gives them a chance at a win it would go a long way into making a run at a wild card spot. As you point out the recent backups have all been pretty bad and some terrible. Giving Talbot some needed rest from time to time without forfeiting a game would be a good step forward.



While I agree, terrible management has held this team back significantly, I think with Connor McDavid in his fourth season, they SHOULD be a Cup Contender, and the team should be managed accordingly.

If we have Brossoit-level netminding from Koskinen/Montoya this year, we'll need to play Talbot an awful lot - which could lead to injury, which could lead to more Koskinen/Montoya, which likely lands us out of the playoffs.

I think it's a pretty key piece - much more important than it once was when you saw most teams playing starters 65-75 games.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718952 is a reply to message #718947 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 10:59

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 10:51


Easy now Adam, baby steps.
Of course the goal is a cup contender but the realistic step for this team is playoff contention. They are, by my count, at least 4-5 upgrades/key pieces away from really being a contender of any quality.

As far as the reality of this season is concerned. If they have a backup that gives them a chance at a win it would go a long way into making a run at a wild card spot. As you point out the recent backups have all been pretty bad and some terrible. Giving Talbot some needed rest from time to time without forfeiting a game would be a good step forward.



While I agree, terrible management has held this team back significantly, I think with Connor McDavid in his fourth season, they SHOULD be a Cup Contender, and the team should be managed accordingly.

If we have Brossoit-level netminding from Koskinen/Montoya this year, we'll need to play Talbot an awful lot - which could lead to injury, which could lead to more Koskinen/Montoya, which likely lands us out of the playoffs.

I think it's a pretty key piece - much more important than it once was when you saw most teams playing starters 65-75 games.


Totally agree but again you are looking at cup contention which is a dream. The comments on management and McDavid's 4th season are also valid.

That brings me back to my original point and how we judge our backup goalie. what they are being paid or how they stack up to the best backups around the league is irrelevant to how they play in the games being discussed.
Koskinen has not looked like a starter so far but we dont need him to be.
Barring a miracle he is overpaid.

In one game he looked brutal and in one game he looked like an NHL backup goalie in that he didn't let in a terrible goal, specifically on the first shot of the game.

I dont think whoever backup Talbot has needs to "push him" or be starter quality, they just need to be good enough to give him a break with some level of confidence.

This would be a big boost from the past few years of him playing 70+ games and help push the team into wildcard contention.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718949 is a reply to message #718946 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:51


As far as the reality of this season is concerned. If they have a backup that gives them a chance at a win it would go a long way into making a run at a wild card spot. As you point out the recent backups have all been pretty bad and some terrible. Giving Talbot some needed rest from time to time without forfeiting a game would be a good step forward.



The other piece of it is just keeping Talbot in one piece. Over the past 2 years, Talbot has played 8 more regular season games (140) than the next highest used goalie. And 21 more than #10 on that list. Rinne (155) has played more regular season & playoff games combined, but not by much (Holtby and Talbot are tied at 153).

It's just not a sustainable pace. If Talbot goes down with any kind of injury, total mileage is likely a factor.



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17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718958 is a reply to message #718949 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 11:10

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:51


As far as the reality of this season is concerned. If they have a backup that gives them a chance at a win it would go a long way into making a run at a wild card spot. As you point out the recent backups have all been pretty bad and some terrible. Giving Talbot some needed rest from time to time without forfeiting a game would be a good step forward.



The other piece of it is just keeping Talbot in one piece. Over the past 2 years, Talbot has played 8 more regular season games (140) than the next highest used goalie. And 21 more than #10 on that list. Rinne (155) has played more regular season & playoff games combined, but not by much (Holtby and Talbot are tied at 153).

It's just not a sustainable pace. If Talbot goes down with any kind of injury, total mileage is likely a factor.


Crazy thing about this is that Talbot even missed time last year due to injury. Had he been healthy he’d have been even further ahead of the pack on games played.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718963 is a reply to message #718944 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 09:36

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 10:17


I agree that our history of backup goaltending is terrible.

My point was that as fans I don't think we need to judge potential backups on pushing Talbot, stealing games, etc.

To me a backup needs to save the savable ones and not give up goals so bad that the team is demoralized early in a game.


I think historically that may have been the case, but now you very rarely see the Cup lifted by a team who makes their starter play over 60-65 games. That means you need at minimum 17-22 starts from your back-up. If they don't maintain a winning percentage close to what the starter has, that can have a really negative impact on your team.

Here's the back-ups for the last seven champs:

2018 Caps - Philip Grubauer 35 GP 15-10-3 0.923 2.35
2017 Pens - M. A. Fleury 38 GP 18-10-7 0.909 3.02
2016 Pens - Matt Murray 13 GP 9-2-1 0.930 2.00/Jeff Zatkoff 14 GP 4-7-1, 0.917, 2.79
2015 Hawks - Antti Raanta 14 GP 7-4-1 0.936, 1.89/Scott Darling 14GP 9-4-0, 0.936, 1.94
2014 Kings - Martin Jones 19 GP 12-6-0, .0934, 1.81/Ben Scrivens 19 GP 7-5-4 0.931, 1.97
2013 Hawks - Ray Emery 36 GP 17-1-0, 0.922, 1.94
2012 Kings - Jonathan Bernier 16 GP 5-6-2, 0.908, 2.36

2012 was the last time a goalie saw over 60 starts as Quick started 68 games that year. It's an anomaly. I think Fleury in 2008-09 is the only other guy to play over 60 and win the Cup since the big lockout in 2004-05.

Most of these teams have a very capable back-up, and for some of these teams, they've had really good third goalies too. Some of those numbers are definitely impacted by the quality of the teams in front of them, but even so - good teams tend to have quality second netminders that don't cost them games.



The cup winners are less a result of having a great backup and more due to playing on a great team. Meaning I think you can have a mediocre/avg backup playing behind an awesome, defensive aware team and still win. Whereas having the best backup in the NHL playing behind decade of darkness level D does not equal success. I agree that the position is important, especially if your #1 gets injured but honestly drawing a line from winning the cup to who the backup is and measuring the teams success based on that is flawed.

To clarify my point, put Al Montoya on the 2015 Blackhawks and they probably still win the cup that year.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718965 is a reply to message #718963 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 12:38


The cup winners are less a result of having a great backup and more due to playing on a great team. Meaning I think you can have a mediocre/avg backup playing behind an awesome, defensive aware team and still win. Whereas having the best backup in the NHL playing behind decade of darkness level D does not equal success. I agree that the position is important, especially if your #1 gets injured but honestly drawing a line from winning the cup to who the backup is and measuring the teams success based on that is flawed.

To clarify my point, put Al Montoya on the 2015 Blackhawks and they probably still win the cup that year.


The last two years, Talbot's played 73 & 67 games. He would have been over 70 both years but for injury last year.

Since the 04/05 lockout, there have only been two goalies who have won the Cup playing over 60 games. There's been none who've played over 70 regular season games. If you look at the number of runner-ups, I think there's maybe one or two more 60+ game seasons from starters, but that's it.

To give teams the best chance of success, your goalie needs regular rest, which means the coaching staff needs to trust the back-up to start approximately 1 out of every 4 games. We have not had a second goalie who has given the coaching staff any confidence.

We will never know the answer on the 2015 Blackhawks - certainly, Emery gave them stellar netminding in relief that year - his numbers were better than the starters.
Grubauer's regular season was better than Holtby's last year too. Montoya has never played on a really good team - possibly because good managers don't have confidence in him. He's certainly been available many times.

You also should want a top notch back-up, because the season can get flushed quickly if you lose your starter otherwise. You can't simply count on them being healthy.

One of the contributors to missing the playoffs four straight years in the 1990s was that Gage and Brathwaite weren't providing quality back-up work for Ranford. There were back to back seasons where we were in the hunt for a playoffs spot into late March - only to have Ranford hurt and then watch the back-ups lose every game. Every Oilers fan no doubt remembers watching Roloson go down in 2006 and seeing Conklin's gaffe cost them Game 1 of the Finals. Compare that to 1984 where with Fuhr injured, the Oilers bring in Moog to give them more championship level netminding.

We've seen before the importance and the value of the back-up goaltender, so there's really no good excuse if Chia has blown it once again.

[Updated on: Mon, 24 September 2018 13:29]


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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718967 is a reply to message #718965 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 11:56

jds308 wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 12:38


The cup winners are less a result of having a great backup and more due to playing on a great team. Meaning I think you can have a mediocre/avg backup playing behind an awesome, defensive aware team and still win. Whereas having the best backup in the NHL playing behind decade of darkness level D does not equal success. I agree that the position is important, especially if your #1 gets injured but honestly drawing a line from winning the cup to who the backup is and measuring the teams success based on that is flawed.

To clarify my point, put Al Montoya on the 2015 Blackhawks and they probably still win the cup that year.


The last two years, Talbot's played 73 & 67 games. He would have been over 70 both years but for injury last year.

Since the 04/05 lockout, there have only been two goalies who have won the Cup playing over 60 games. There's been none who've played over 70 regular season games. If you look at the number of runner-ups, I think there's maybe one or two more 60+ game seasons from starters, but that's it.

To give teams the best chance of success, your goalie needs regular rest, which means the coaching staff needs to trust the back-up to start approximately 1 out of every 4 games. We have not had a second goalie who has given the coaching staff any confidence.

We will never know the answer on the 2015 Blackhawks - certainly, Emery gave them stellar netminding in relief that year - his numbers were better than the starters.
Grubauer's regular season was better than Holtby's last year too. Montoya has never played on a really good team - possibly because good managers don't have confidence in him. He's certainly been available many times.

You also should want a top notch back-up, because the season can get flushed quickly if you lose your starter otherwise. You can't simply count on them being healthy.

One of the contributors to missing the playoffs four straight years in the 1990s was that Gage and Brathwaite weren't providing quality back-up work for Ranford. There were back to back seasons where we were in the hunt for a playoffs spot into late March - only to have Ranford hurt and then watch the back-ups lose every game. Every Oilers fan no doubt remembers watching Roloson go down in 2006 and seeing Conklin's gaffe cost them Game 1 of the Finals. Compare that to 1984 where with Fuhr injured, the Oilers bring in Moog to give them more championship level netminding.

We've seen before the importance and the value of the back-up goaltender, so there's really no good excuse if Chia has blown it once again.




I agree with needing a backup to play 1/4 of the games and especially in the back to back scenarios during the season. And yeah, if the #1 guy gets hurt and is out long-term, you better hope you have a good backup. That said, most teams in the league wouldn't be able to absorb losing their #1 guy without taking a hit in the GA.

I think if you take the top few teams in any given year vs the rest, the backup goalie is going to be more or less interchangeable. The best teams will still be the best teams regardless of the backup and the crapiest teams will still be the crapiest teams regardless of the backup. A great backup may steal you a couple wins per season, but ultimately the overall success of a backup will be determined by how good the team in front of him is. Put 2015 Emery on the 2015 Oilers and they likely still finish with a lottery pick (thank Lemme).

The Fuhr/Moog tandem was a luxury for sure in the 80's. I can't see teams having a goalie tandem at that level anymore in the cap world unless it's a kid on his ELC backing up a legit #1 starter. It happens, but it's not sustainable under the cap.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718968 is a reply to message #718967 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 14:46


I agree with needing a backup to play 1/4 of the games and especially in the back to back scenarios during the season. And yeah, if the #1 guy gets hurt and is out long-term, you better hope you have a good backup. That said, most teams in the league wouldn't be able to absorb losing their #1 guy without taking a hit in the GA.

I think if you take the top few teams in any given year vs the rest, the backup goalie is going to be more or less interchangeable. The best teams will still be the best teams regardless of the backup and the crapiest teams will still be the crapiest teams regardless of the backup. A great backup may steal you a couple wins per season, but ultimately the overall success of a backup will be determined by how good the team in front of him is. Put 2015 Emery on the 2015 Oilers and they likely still finish with a lottery pick (thank Lemme).

The Fuhr/Moog tandem was a luxury for sure in the 80's. I can't see teams having a goalie tandem at that level anymore in the cap world unless it's a kid on his ELC backing up a legit #1 starter. It happens, but it's not sustainable under the cap.


Certain teams seem always to manage it. Tampa, Nashville - they seem to constantly find good goalies, and replace those who leave with other good goalies.

I agree - you probably can't hold on to the same two goalies for too long, but if you are doing a good job acquiring and developing netminders, it certainly goes a long way.

Other than Dubnyk, the Oilers haven't drafted a guy who's played 100 games since Moog & Fuhr though, so maybe goalie development is a lot to hope for from the Oilers...



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718972 is a reply to message #718968 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 15:06

jds308 wrote on Mon, 24 September 2018 14:46


I agree with needing a backup to play 1/4 of the games and especially in the back to back scenarios during the season. And yeah, if the #1 guy gets hurt and is out long-term, you better hope you have a good backup. That said, most teams in the league wouldn't be able to absorb losing their #1 guy without taking a hit in the GA.

I think if you take the top few teams in any given year vs the rest, the backup goalie is going to be more or less interchangeable. The best teams will still be the best teams regardless of the backup and the crapiest teams will still be the crapiest teams regardless of the backup. A great backup may steal you a couple wins per season, but ultimately the overall success of a backup will be determined by how good the team in front of him is. Put 2015 Emery on the 2015 Oilers and they likely still finish with a lottery pick (thank Lemme).

The Fuhr/Moog tandem was a luxury for sure in the 80's. I can't see teams having a goalie tandem at that level anymore in the cap world unless it's a kid on his ELC backing up a legit #1 starter. It happens, but it's not sustainable under the cap.


Certain teams seem always to manage it. Tampa, Nashville - they seem to constantly find good goalies, and replace those who leave with other good goalies.

I agree - you probably can't hold on to the same two goalies for too long, but if you are doing a good job acquiring and developing netminders, it certainly goes a long way.

Other than Dubnyk, the Oilers haven't drafted a guy who's played 100 games since Moog & Fuhr though, so maybe goalie development is a lot to hope for from the Oilers...

With how much of a crap shoot goalie picks/development is, I can't fault the OBC too much for this. However, not being able to properly scout and acquire talent is a huge problem. Yes, the ideal situation is to bring someone up through the system, but a lot of good teams trade their way into goalie depth.



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 Re: Oilers at Jets Expected Lineup 9/23/18 [message #718945 is a reply to message #718938 ]
Mon, 24 September 2018 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Registered: November 2007

2 Cups

I honestly wouldn't have had much problem if Montoya was given the back-up role. He's had 3 years in the past 5 above .910. He's had 2 years below .900. I imagine that volatility is pretty typical for a backup goalie. It's a strange position, because anybody who is consistently good would be getting a starting job.


Clean house or bust

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