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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707375 is a reply to message #707345 ]	Thu, 18 January 2018 19:17

g2k
Messages: 8718
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

6 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Thu, 18 January 2018 08:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 15:28

jds308 wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 15:23

Speaking of waivers and fixing mistakes... Where's Brandon Davidson been lately? The guy looked good after being picked up and now I can't recall the last game he played.

With Sekera back, he is back in the same problem he was in when he was with the Oilers last season. Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Sekera, Russell, Benning are all ahead of him.

Which is weird, because Davidson is a fair bit better than Benning.

Yeah, perhaps they are still reflecting on 2016/17 Benning and feel there is more ceiling with him and want him getting minutes and developing.

The wins are much less important now too.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707432 is a reply to message #707345 ]	Fri, 19 January 2018 18:48

mightyreasoner
Messages: 2367
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Thu, 18 January 2018 08:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 15:28

jds308 wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 15:23

Speaking of waivers and fixing mistakes... Where's Brandon Davidson been lately? The guy looked good after being picked up and now I can't recall the last game he played.

With Sekera back, he is back in the same problem he was in when he was with the Oilers last season. Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Sekera, Russell, Benning are all ahead of him.

Which is weird, because Davidson is a fair bit better than Benning.

Benning probably has a little more cache for a couple reasons:

- RH
- one of the more offensively gifted guys from the blueline.
- good season last year that exceeded expectations and still has some shine from that.

I'm not opposed to moving Benning this summer... if they bring in a better offensive RHD. Though Benning / Davidson wouldn't be the worst third pairing the Oilers have iced either.

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707286 is a reply to message #707283 ]	Tue, 16 January 2018 15:27

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Jokinen looks like one of those guys who literally just fell off a cliff. He had 60 pts in 81 games, 2 seasons ago. He had 28 pts in 69 games last year. Florida was a complete mess last year, he had a knee injury early last season that could have easily lingered all season. For 1 mill, I would have taken a chance on a guy capable of putting up 30 pts for you. The guy literally looks to be done in the NHL just like that.

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707289 is a reply to message #707283 ]	Tue, 16 January 2018 20:08

Skookum Jim
Messages: 7631
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

OilPeg wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 14:15

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 15:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 09:55

messier11 wrote on Tue, 16 January 2018 10:52

Jokinen waived by the Kings now too...

https://www.tsn.ca/kings-place-f-jokinen-on-waivers-1.969586

Tambo won a trade!

I mean, Chia, Chia won a trade! Put it on the scoreboard!!!! Woooooo

Good news is Chiarelli got an asset that is still playing NHL hockey for a guy that is not going to be, but ... unfortunately he is also the same guy that decided 6 months ago that after careful evaluation and consultation, Jokinen was a NHL player worthy of a contract.

Need to focus on the first part. He corrected his error, that's what's most important.

True, at least they acknowledged a screw-up, and acted.
The common message to the fans from management after a screw-up is usually something along the lines of .."the past is the past.. we have to look to the future.." .. but a lot of times your past predicts your future, unless you change how you do things, I'll be more impressed when there are not mistakes to fix. :)

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707297 is a reply to message #707289 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 03:07

HamBlaster
Messages: 1499
Registered: June 2007

1 Cup

Chiarelli actually won a trade? HOOOOOOOLLLLLLYYY SHHIIIIIINNNGUARDS

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707304 is a reply to message #707297 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 08:40

Adam
Messages: 12977
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 03:07

Chiarelli actually won a trade? HOOOOOOOLLLLLLYYY SHHIIIIIINNNGUARDS

I've been very critical of Pete Chiarelli, but reclamation project trades have been something he's done fairly well at. Gernat & 4th rd pick for Maroon and Scrivens for Kassian were both pretty solid. Ewanyk & 4th rd pick for Gryba gave us pretty good value too.

There's been a couple of busts - Korpikoski for Gordon, for example, but it's not like Gordon did anything great either.

I'm sure LA is looking at this deal the same way I just did Korpikoski/Gordon. They didn't really like what they were getting from Cammalleri and I'm sure they're not heart-broken about where that turned out. Since the trade, Cammalleri's scoring rates have dropped significantly - from .47 points per game in Los Angeles to .32 points a game in Edmonton. He was +1 as a King, and is -7 as an Oiler.

It looks like Chiarelli WAS able to upgrade in the trade - Jokinen has scored .32 points per game for the Kings prior to getting waived, so it's a minor win for us.

One interesting thing to note is that Jokinen's production was much better with the Kings than the Oilers, and Cammalleri's production was ALSO much better with the Kings. Does that once again point to coaching and player usage?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe ~~#FireChiarelli~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland ~~#FireTippett~~

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707310 is a reply to message #707304 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 10:19

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Here's a head scratcher. Jokinen got CLAIMED by the Jackets.

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707313 is a reply to message #707310 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 11:33

Adam
Messages: 12977
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 10:19

Here's a head scratcher. Jokinen got CLAIMED by the Jackets.

He has only 3 less points than Cammalleri since the trade, and he's a + player in a depth role. He's also cheap, and it costs them nothing but money and a contract spot. They have over $10MM in cap space and 3 more contract slots after picking him up, so it really does them no harm at all.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe ~~#FireChiarelli~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland ~~#FireTippett~~

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707316 is a reply to message #707313 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 11:48

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 10:19

Here's a head scratcher. Jokinen got CLAIMED by the Jackets.

He has only 3 less points than Cammalleri since the trade, and he's a + player in a depth role. He's also cheap, and it costs them nothing but money and a contract spot. They have over $10MM in cap space and 3 more contract slots after picking him up, so it really does them no harm at all.

But he can't skate. If you aren't producing points and you can't skate at the NHL level anymore, what good are you? I am not here to sing the praises of Cammalleri. He's been marginally better than Jokinen but it's not like he's lighting it up. But at least Cammalleri can skate, he can make plays, he's rang a few off the post or crossbar and he's generating something at time. Jokinen generated NOTHING.

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707322 is a reply to message #707316 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 14:13

Adam
Messages: 12977
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:48

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 10:19

Here's a head scratcher. Jokinen got CLAIMED by the Jackets.

He has only 3 less points than Cammalleri since the trade, and he's a + player in a depth role. He's also cheap, and it costs them nothing but money and a contract spot. They have over $10MM in cap space and 3 more contract slots after picking him up, so it really does them no harm at all.

But he can't skate. If you aren't producing points and you can't skate at the NHL level anymore, what good are you? I am not here to sing the praises of Cammalleri. He's been marginally better than Jokinen but it's not like he's lighting it up. But at least Cammalleri can skate, he can make plays, he's rang a few off the post or crossbar and he's generating something at time. Jokinen generated NOTHING.

The fact he's a + player and has contributed a few points suggest he's not nothing and he is contributing SOMETHING. I haven't watched many Kings games - none outside of those against the Oilers - so I have no idea how he's skating these days, or how many crossbars and posts he's hit.

I find that "he can't skate comment" a funny one. It seems like it gets made by some Edmonton media 'pundit' and then it just gets parroted ad nauseum by fans around this city. I'd rank the scouting abilities of Edmonton media guys as somewhere around zilch, so I wouldn't put a lot of faith in those assessments.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe ~~#FireChiarelli~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland ~~#FireTippett~~

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707327 is a reply to message #707322 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 15:08

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 14:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:48

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 10:19

Here's a head scratcher. Jokinen got CLAIMED by the Jackets.

He has only 3 less points than Cammalleri since the trade, and he's a + player in a depth role. He's also cheap, and it costs them nothing but money and a contract spot. They have over $10MM in cap space and 3 more contract slots after picking him up, so it really does them no harm at all.

But he can't skate. If you aren't producing points and you can't skate at the NHL level anymore, what good are you? I am not here to sing the praises of Cammalleri. He's been marginally better than Jokinen but it's not like he's lighting it up. But at least Cammalleri can skate, he can make plays, he's rang a few off the post or crossbar and he's generating something at time. Jokinen generated NOTHING.

The fact he's a + player and has contributed a few points suggest he's not nothing and he is contributing SOMETHING. I haven't watched many Kings games - none outside of those against the Oilers - so I have no idea how he's skating these days, or how many crossbars and posts he's hit.

I find that "he can't skate comment" a funny one. It seems like it gets made by some Edmonton media 'pundit' and then it just gets parroted ad nauseum by fans around this city. I'd rank the scouting abilities of Edmonton media guys as somewhere around zilch, so I wouldn't put a lot of faith in those assessments.

The can't skate comment comes from not only the Edmonton media but all kinds of other media from other parts of the world saying that his skating is an issue when they watch him play. But I guess if you don't say it, its not true. I will keep that in mind.

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707328 is a reply to message #707327 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 15:20

PlusOne
Messages: 2233
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 16:08

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 14:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:48

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 10:19

Here's a head scratcher. Jokinen got CLAIMED by the Jackets.

He has only 3 less points than Cammalleri since the trade, and he's a + player in a depth role. He's also cheap, and it costs them nothing but money and a contract spot. They have over $10MM in cap space and 3 more contract slots after picking him up, so it really does them no harm at all.

But he can't skate. If you aren't producing points and you can't skate at the NHL level anymore, what good are you? I am not here to sing the praises of Cammalleri. He's been marginally better than Jokinen but it's not like he's lighting it up. But at least Cammalleri can skate, he can make plays, he's rang a few off the post or crossbar and he's generating something at time. Jokinen generated NOTHING.

The fact he's a + player and has contributed a few points suggest he's not nothing and he is contributing SOMETHING. I haven't watched many Kings games - none outside of those against the Oilers - so I have no idea how he's skating these days, or how many crossbars and posts he's hit.

I find that "he can't skate comment" a funny one. It seems like it gets made by some Edmonton media 'pundit' and then it just gets parroted ad nauseum by fans around this city. I'd rank the scouting abilities of Edmonton media guys as somewhere around zilch, so I wouldn't put a lot of faith in those assessments.

The can't skate comment comes from not only the Edmonton media but all kinds of other media from other parts of the world saying that his skating is an issue when they watch him play. But I guess if you don't say it, its not true. I will keep that in mind.

While JJ isn't an elite skater I would have put him middle of the pack of Oilers forwards.
I am not blaming coaching, PC or scouting but for whatever reason he just didn't fit in on the Oilers.

Did anyone here complain that his skating was the issue before the media pushed that line? In fact, outside of the complaint that he was invisible did anyone here peg him as the issue 20 games in?

Trying to throw him under the bus now by some fans and most media is such an Oilers thing to do was oh so predictable.

BTW RDOF, I am always looking for sources of objective information. what are these world wide media sources that you tap into? I would love to have some extra reading that isnt biased for or against the Oilers but rather giving real judgment of players and the team.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707340 is a reply to message #707328 ]	Wed, 17 January 2018 23:59

Lew19
Messages: 115
Registered: February 2009

No Cups

J.J can skate better then anyone posting above, but not good enough for a faster NHL. That's a fact. If he was an elite skater, he's beat more guys to puck, thus score more points. Is it any wonder why an injury deleted team like Columbus picked him up, on waivers, from his 2nd team in 46 games? Just saying. My dinner was bland, but I got my share of salt reading the posts above. Keep on keeping on gentlemen. Fight

Fight

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707341 is a reply to message #707340 ]	Thu, 18 January 2018 00:02

Lew19
Messages: 115
Registered: February 2009

No Cups

https://therattrick.com/2017/09/15/florida-panthers-buying-o ut-jokinen-was-smart/
cause I was bored, and wanted to add a little fuel to the fire..

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Re: Jokinen for Cammalleri [message #707342 is a reply to message #707340 ]	Thu, 18 January 2018 07:13

PlusOne
Messages: 2233
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

2 Cups

Lew19 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2018 00:59

J.J can skate better then anyone posting above, but not good enough for a faster NHL. That's a fact. If he was an elite skater, he's beat more guys to puck, thus score more points. Is it any wonder why an injury deleted team like Columbus picked him up, on waivers, from his 2nd team in 46 games? Just saying. My dinner was bland, but I got my share of salt reading the posts above. Keep on keeping on gentlemen. Fight

Fight

I think you are oversimplifying the skate fast+get to puck= score more points formula (Jumbo Joe at any age says hi)

I am in no way saying that JJ is fast, or even good enough to play a major role in the NHL any more.
90% of the hockey I watched this year have been Oiler games and it is tough to judge a player in limited minutes on this tire fire.

Thanks for the second post with this;

Lew19 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2018 01:02

https://therattrick.com/2017/09/15/florida-panthers-buying-o ut-jokinen-was-smart/
cause I was bored, and wanted to add a little fuel to the fire..

It is always interesting to me to see the writing of a player from other markets. This one was written AFTER he was being jettisoned from FLA so that leads me to wonder;
- are the writers there similiar to the ones in Edmonton where a player soon to be or currently on the way out all of a sudden becomes public enemy number 1
- if this writer was right in that JJ " looked slow and old. Even Jagr at his old age sometimes seemed faster than Jokinen."

If it is the first than it's tough to put much stock in it, if it's the second and was that obvious to the writer how did the Oilers scouting not see it?

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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