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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703098 is a reply to message #703091 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
Messages: 2087
Registered: March 2007

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Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 08:42

MacTavish's contract ended last June. He's still here, one would assume on a new contract.

Howson's contract ended the year before and the Oilers announced he wasn't going to be back, then immediately brought him back. There's some speculation that the announcement was always just a smokescreen and he never really left the organization, but was "contracting" for the year. He now has a new title, and one would assume, a new contract.

No one knows what they do, but they are in hockey ops, they attend all the functions. I think it's safe to assume the Oilers believe they have an advantage over other teams because not only do we have a GM, but we have three former GMs who sit in all the meetings with him and weigh in. Sadly, they're all four pretty poor GMs...and the team would probably be better off with a single guy who has some aptitude for the job.


Reading this depresses me even more so. MacT is pro scouting by the way to take the place of Semenko who was demoted from a pro scout to a team ambassador. I miss that big lug he sure loved being with the fans at the game.

They shuffle the deck chairs and tell us things are different. We fans have no control in how the organization is run, except with our dollar. There is nothing to do in Edmonton during the winter besides our hockey team so the vicious cycle goes.

It's maddening.



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703107 is a reply to message #703098 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
Messages: 1128
Registered: January 2009
Location: Medicine Hat,AB

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The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.

[Updated on: Tue, 21 November 2017 10:14]


" If you have anything good to say, say it off!"

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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703112 is a reply to message #703107 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 8260
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09

The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.


It's going to take some managerial genius to make the next few years work (or a lot of luck in the cap increasing quickly). We have almost as much committed to just 14 players next year as we do for a full roster this year. Those 14 players include a few guys on the bubble like Malone, Khaira and Gryba.

If the cap increased by 5%, we'd have a $78.75MM salary cap next year. That means we'd have $17.32MM to resign or replace several players. The positions they currently hold:

Maroon - 1LW
Strome - 3C
Letestu - 3/4C
Caggiula - 3/1RW
Slepyshev - 2/3 RW
Cammalleri - 3LW
Pakarinen - 4LW
Nurse - 1/2LD
Benning - 2/3RD
Auvitu - 6/7D
Brossoit - 2G

Brossoit, Pakarinen and Auvitu are all fairly easily and cheaply replaced or resigned, but it will be difficult to keep costs low on the entire third line, and whether you sign or replace Maroon at 1LW, that's a big hole. 4th line centers who penalty kill usually make more than league minimum too. Expect that to be a seven-figure salary.

Nurse will be in line for a significant raise, especially given that he's the darling of the Edmonton media right now (beyond reproach - imagine if Klefbom had made those two back-to-back giveaways Nurse did against Dallas the other night).

Benning got stronger as the season progressed last year, and may again. The only saving grace on salary is that the Oilers still regularly make the baffling decision to play Russell over him on the second PP unit right now. That should help keep his offensive contributions in check to an extent (even if it doesn't help us score goals and win games).

Fortunately, we've got a great braintrust with a proven track record of balancing cap woes and not panicking when faced with tough decisions...right? Right??!?! Oh crap.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703127 is a reply to message #703112 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 11:04

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09

The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.


It's going to take some managerial genius to make the next few years work (or a lot of luck in the cap increasing quickly). We have almost as much committed to just 14 players next year as we do for a full roster this year. Those 14 players include a few guys on the bubble like Malone, Khaira and Gryba.

If the cap increased by 5%, we'd have a $78.75MM salary cap next year. That means we'd have $17.32MM to resign or replace several players. The positions they currently hold:

Maroon - 1LW
Strome - 3C
Letestu - 3/4C
Caggiula - 3/1RW
Slepyshev - 2/3 RW
Cammalleri - 3LW
Pakarinen - 4LW
Nurse - 1/2LD
Benning - 2/3RD
Auvitu - 6/7D
Brossoit - 2G

Brossoit, Pakarinen and Auvitu are all fairly easily and cheaply replaced or resigned, but it will be difficult to keep costs low on the entire third line, and whether you sign or replace Maroon at 1LW, that's a big hole. 4th line centers who penalty kill usually make more than league minimum too. Expect that to be a seven-figure salary.

Nurse will be in line for a significant raise, especially given that he's the darling of the Edmonton media right now (beyond reproach - imagine if Klefbom had made those two back-to-back giveaways Nurse did against Dallas the other night).

Benning got stronger as the season progressed last year, and may again. The only saving grace on salary is that the Oilers still regularly make the baffling decision to play Russell over him on the second PP unit right now. That should help keep his offensive contributions in check to an extent (even if it doesn't help us score goals and win games).

Fortunately, we've got a great braintrust with a proven track record of balancing cap woes and not panicking when faced with tough decisions...right? Right??!?! Oh crap.


I am of the belief that Maroon won't be here. I said it a few times. I don't think you can have Maroon and Lucic on your team with the game getting as fast as it is. Lucic is locked here and I think the team needs more speed. I think they find away to keep Nuge and Nuge ends up being the 1st line LW.

Strome - I don't see how he gets a raise.
Letestu - Will be gone. He turns 33 and not fast enough anymore. I see Khaira taking his spot. He's way younger at 23, bigger, faster, more physical, already doing time on the PK, can win draws. He is already signed at 675K.
Caggiula - I have high hopes for him. I think he turns into McDavid's Sheary. Had 2 goals the other game in Dallas. He makes 925k. I don't rush to lock him up. I think he gets a modest raise.
Slep - Who knows what he is. Still hasn't established himself but I think he is a 3RW. This year can't stay healthy. He makes 925K. I think he gets a modest raise if any on a short contract.
Cammalleri- You can sign 3rd/4th line wingers for under 1 mill.
Pakarinen - 4th/extra. Makes 750K. You can get guys to replace him. They have Malone for another year who can play some center and he makes 650. I think they replace him from within.
Nurse - I don't think he gets over 4 mill like Klefbom given Klefbom at the time had more sexier skill set. I could see him signing a 2-3 yr deal at 3 mill. He made 863 so that would be a big raise.
Benning - I see him signing a 1-2 yr deal at maybe 2 mill. He can look like a top 4 one game, then be like he was in Dallas and look like a scratch candidate. He makes 925K. So if he makes around 2 mill, that's a healthy raise.
Auvitu - I don't see a point in replacing him. Once healthy, your top 6 are Klef, Larsson, Nurse, Benning, Sekera, Russell. Gryba is signed for 1 more year to sit in the pressbox. You got Stanton signed for 1 more at 700 you can be a #8. What about the other young guys? I don't see the point in replacing him.
Brossoit - Makes 750K. If you go with him, I don't see how you give him much of a raise.

I think it can be done.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703129 is a reply to message #703127 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 8260
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 13:49

Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 11:04

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09

The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.


It's going to take some managerial genius to make the next few years work (or a lot of luck in the cap increasing quickly). We have almost as much committed to just 14 players next year as we do for a full roster this year. Those 14 players include a few guys on the bubble like Malone, Khaira and Gryba.

If the cap increased by 5%, we'd have a $78.75MM salary cap next year. That means we'd have $17.32MM to resign or replace several players. The positions they currently hold:

Maroon - 1LW
Strome - 3C
Letestu - 3/4C
Caggiula - 3/1RW
Slepyshev - 2/3 RW
Cammalleri - 3LW
Pakarinen - 4LW
Nurse - 1/2LD
Benning - 2/3RD
Auvitu - 6/7D
Brossoit - 2G

Brossoit, Pakarinen and Auvitu are all fairly easily and cheaply replaced or resigned, but it will be difficult to keep costs low on the entire third line, and whether you sign or replace Maroon at 1LW, that's a big hole. 4th line centers who penalty kill usually make more than league minimum too. Expect that to be a seven-figure salary.

Nurse will be in line for a significant raise, especially given that he's the darling of the Edmonton media right now (beyond reproach - imagine if Klefbom had made those two back-to-back giveaways Nurse did against Dallas the other night).

Benning got stronger as the season progressed last year, and may again. The only saving grace on salary is that the Oilers still regularly make the baffling decision to play Russell over him on the second PP unit right now. That should help keep his offensive contributions in check to an extent (even if it doesn't help us score goals and win games).

Fortunately, we've got a great braintrust with a proven track record of balancing cap woes and not panicking when faced with tough decisions...right? Right??!?! Oh crap.


I am of the belief that Maroon won't be here. I said it a few times. I don't think you can have Maroon and Lucic on your team with the game getting as fast as it is. Lucic is locked here and I think the team needs more speed. I think they find away to keep Nuge and Nuge ends up being the 1st line LW.

Strome - I don't see how he gets a raise.
Letestu - Will be gone. He turns 33 and not fast enough anymore. I see Khaira taking his spot. He's way younger at 23, bigger, faster, more physical, already doing time on the PK, can win draws. He is already signed at 675K.
Caggiula - I have high hopes for him. I think he turns into McDavid's Sheary. Had 2 goals the other game in Dallas. He makes 925k. I don't rush to lock him up. I think he gets a modest raise.
Slep - Who knows what he is. Still hasn't established himself but I think he is a 3RW. This year can't stay healthy. He makes 925K. I think he gets a modest raise if any on a short contract.
Cammalleri- You can sign 3rd/4th line wingers for under 1 mill.
Pakarinen - 4th/extra. Makes 750K. You can get guys to replace him. They have Malone for another year who can play some center and he makes 650. I think they replace him from within.
Nurse - I don't think he gets over 4 mill like Klefbom given Klefbom at the time had more sexier skill set. I could see him signing a 2-3 yr deal at 3 mill. He made 863 so that would be a big raise.
Benning - I see him signing a 1-2 yr deal at maybe 2 mill. He can look like a top 4 one game, then be like he was in Dallas and look like a scratch candidate. He makes 925K. So if he makes around 2 mill, that's a healthy raise.
Auvitu - I don't see a point in replacing him. Once healthy, your top 6 are Klef, Larsson, Nurse, Benning, Sekera, Russell. Gryba is signed for 1 more year to sit in the pressbox. You got Stanton signed for 1 more at 700 you can be a #8. What about the other young guys? I don't see the point in replacing him.
Brossoit - Makes 750K. If you go with him, I don't see how you give him much of a raise.

I think it can be done.


If you're right, and I think you're being overly optimistic on some of these, you've spent approximately $13 Million, and you still haven't replaced your 1LW, and you've replaced Letestu, who plays even strength, PP and PK with Khaira, who's never likely to put up double digits for points in any NHL season. Your team, which looks horrible this year is getting worse.

You need Yamamoto to take a huge step forward just to hope to tread water here.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703132 is a reply to message #703129 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1436
Registered: October 2006
Location: Rocky Mountain House, AB

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Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 14:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 13:49

Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 11:04

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09

The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.


It's going to take some managerial genius to make the next few years work (or a lot of luck in the cap increasing quickly). We have almost as much committed to just 14 players next year as we do for a full roster this year. Those 14 players include a few guys on the bubble like Malone, Khaira and Gryba.

If the cap increased by 5%, we'd have a $78.75MM salary cap next year. That means we'd have $17.32MM to resign or replace several players. The positions they currently hold:

Maroon - 1LW
Strome - 3C
Letestu - 3/4C
Caggiula - 3/1RW
Slepyshev - 2/3 RW
Cammalleri - 3LW
Pakarinen - 4LW
Nurse - 1/2LD
Benning - 2/3RD
Auvitu - 6/7D
Brossoit - 2G

Brossoit, Pakarinen and Auvitu are all fairly easily and cheaply replaced or resigned, but it will be difficult to keep costs low on the entire third line, and whether you sign or replace Maroon at 1LW, that's a big hole. 4th line centers who penalty kill usually make more than league minimum too. Expect that to be a seven-figure salary.

Nurse will be in line for a significant raise, especially given that he's the darling of the Edmonton media right now (beyond reproach - imagine if Klefbom had made those two back-to-back giveaways Nurse did against Dallas the other night).

Benning got stronger as the season progressed last year, and may again. The only saving grace on salary is that the Oilers still regularly make the baffling decision to play Russell over him on the second PP unit right now. That should help keep his offensive contributions in check to an extent (even if it doesn't help us score goals and win games).

Fortunately, we've got a great braintrust with a proven track record of balancing cap woes and not panicking when faced with tough decisions...right? Right??!?! Oh crap.


I am of the belief that Maroon won't be here. I said it a few times. I don't think you can have Maroon and Lucic on your team with the game getting as fast as it is. Lucic is locked here and I think the team needs more speed. I think they find away to keep Nuge and Nuge ends up being the 1st line LW.

Strome - I don't see how he gets a raise.
Letestu - Will be gone. He turns 33 and not fast enough anymore. I see Khaira taking his spot. He's way younger at 23, bigger, faster, more physical, already doing time on the PK, can win draws. He is already signed at 675K.
Caggiula - I have high hopes for him. I think he turns into McDavid's Sheary. Had 2 goals the other game in Dallas. He makes 925k. I don't rush to lock him up. I think he gets a modest raise.
Slep - Who knows what he is. Still hasn't established himself but I think he is a 3RW. This year can't stay healthy. He makes 925K. I think he gets a modest raise if any on a short contract.
Cammalleri- You can sign 3rd/4th line wingers for under 1 mill.
Pakarinen - 4th/extra. Makes 750K. You can get guys to replace him. They have Malone for another year who can play some center and he makes 650. I think they replace him from within.
Nurse - I don't think he gets over 4 mill like Klefbom given Klefbom at the time had more sexier skill set. I could see him signing a 2-3 yr deal at 3 mill. He made 863 so that would be a big raise.
Benning - I see him signing a 1-2 yr deal at maybe 2 mill. He can look like a top 4 one game, then be like he was in Dallas and look like a scratch candidate. He makes 925K. So if he makes around 2 mill, that's a healthy raise.
Auvitu - I don't see a point in replacing him. Once healthy, your top 6 are Klef, Larsson, Nurse, Benning, Sekera, Russell. Gryba is signed for 1 more year to sit in the pressbox. You got Stanton signed for 1 more at 700 you can be a #8. What about the other young guys? I don't see the point in replacing him.
Brossoit - Makes 750K. If you go with him, I don't see how you give him much of a raise.

I think it can be done.


If you're right, and I think you're being overly optimistic on some of these, you've spent approximately $13 Million, and you still haven't replaced your 1LW, and you've replaced Letestu, who plays even strength, PP and PK with Khaira, who's never likely to put up double digits for points in any NHL season. Your team, which looks horrible this year is getting worse.

You need Yamamoto to take a huge step forward just to hope to tread water here.


I have zero issue with JP taking Letestu's spot on the pp. Not sure what Letestu brings there that Puljujaarvi doesn't other than winning the odd faceoff. JP has a pretty solid one timer and can find open ice just as well if not better than Letestu can due to his speed.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703144 is a reply to message #703129 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 2676
Registered: January 2016

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Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 14:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 13:49

Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 11:04

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09

The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.


It's going to take some managerial genius to make the next few years work (or a lot of luck in the cap increasing quickly). We have almost as much committed to just 14 players next year as we do for a full roster this year. Those 14 players include a few guys on the bubble like Malone, Khaira and Gryba.

If the cap increased by 5%, we'd have a $78.75MM salary cap next year. That means we'd have $17.32MM to resign or replace several players. The positions they currently hold:

Maroon - 1LW
Strome - 3C
Letestu - 3/4C
Caggiula - 3/1RW
Slepyshev - 2/3 RW
Cammalleri - 3LW
Pakarinen - 4LW
Nurse - 1/2LD
Benning - 2/3RD
Auvitu - 6/7D
Brossoit - 2G

Brossoit, Pakarinen and Auvitu are all fairly easily and cheaply replaced or resigned, but it will be difficult to keep costs low on the entire third line, and whether you sign or replace Maroon at 1LW, that's a big hole. 4th line centers who penalty kill usually make more than league minimum too. Expect that to be a seven-figure salary.

Nurse will be in line for a significant raise, especially given that he's the darling of the Edmonton media right now (beyond reproach - imagine if Klefbom had made those two back-to-back giveaways Nurse did against Dallas the other night).

Benning got stronger as the season progressed last year, and may again. The only saving grace on salary is that the Oilers still regularly make the baffling decision to play Russell over him on the second PP unit right now. That should help keep his offensive contributions in check to an extent (even if it doesn't help us score goals and win games).

Fortunately, we've got a great braintrust with a proven track record of balancing cap woes and not panicking when faced with tough decisions...right? Right??!?! Oh crap.


I am of the belief that Maroon won't be here. I said it a few times. I don't think you can have Maroon and Lucic on your team with the game getting as fast as it is. Lucic is locked here and I think the team needs more speed. I think they find away to keep Nuge and Nuge ends up being the 1st line LW.

Strome - I don't see how he gets a raise.
Letestu - Will be gone. He turns 33 and not fast enough anymore. I see Khaira taking his spot. He's way younger at 23, bigger, faster, more physical, already doing time on the PK, can win draws. He is already signed at 675K.
Caggiula - I have high hopes for him. I think he turns into McDavid's Sheary. Had 2 goals the other game in Dallas. He makes 925k. I don't rush to lock him up. I think he gets a modest raise.
Slep - Who knows what he is. Still hasn't established himself but I think he is a 3RW. This year can't stay healthy. He makes 925K. I think he gets a modest raise if any on a short contract.
Cammalleri- You can sign 3rd/4th line wingers for under 1 mill.
Pakarinen - 4th/extra. Makes 750K. You can get guys to replace him. They have Malone for another year who can play some center and he makes 650. I think they replace him from within.
Nurse - I don't think he gets over 4 mill like Klefbom given Klefbom at the time had more sexier skill set. I could see him signing a 2-3 yr deal at 3 mill. He made 863 so that would be a big raise.
Benning - I see him signing a 1-2 yr deal at maybe 2 mill. He can look like a top 4 one game, then be like he was in Dallas and look like a scratch candidate. He makes 925K. So if he makes around 2 mill, that's a healthy raise.
Auvitu - I don't see a point in replacing him. Once healthy, your top 6 are Klef, Larsson, Nurse, Benning, Sekera, Russell. Gryba is signed for 1 more year to sit in the pressbox. You got Stanton signed for 1 more at 700 you can be a #8. What about the other young guys? I don't see the point in replacing him.
Brossoit - Makes 750K. If you go with him, I don't see how you give him much of a raise.

I think it can be done.


If you're right, and I think you're being overly optimistic on some of these, you've spent approximately $13 Million, and you still haven't replaced your 1LW, and you've replaced Letestu, who plays even strength, PP and PK with Khaira, who's never likely to put up double digits for points in any NHL season. Your team, which looks horrible this year is getting worse.

You need Yamamoto to take a huge step forward just to hope to tread water here.


My belief is that one of Nuge or Leon takes Maroon spot. I would go with Nuge. Like I said, the game is getting faster and faster. Faster than I think Chia anticipated. Nuge this season is showing the Nuge we say 4 years ago. McLellan likes having more than one center, I believe he said when he took the job that Nuge could be the next Pavelski and it might finally be happening.

I would have:
Nuge - McDavid - Caggulia
Lucic - Drai - JP

If you think you need more size, you swap Cagguila and JP.

You drafted JP 4th overall. He will be 20. You have to play him at some point. Given the way he has played, his skating, his forecheck, he's coming. It's a gamble but I think he is a player.

3rd line: A cheap vet 3rd liner. Like a Cammalleri type. They are out there. - Strome - Slep. Maybe Yamamoto makes it.

4th line - Malone or cheap vet - Khaira - Kassian.

Maybe Kassian moves up to the 3rd line as I think he has more to give.

To your comment about Letestu. I see Khaira taking his PK duties and 4th line 5 on 5. On the PP, I see JP taking his spot. I could see Slep getting PP time as he's a right shot and has a good one.

To your point about the team looking worse. I don't agree. The line up is a lot faster and more skilled in my opinion. The only way it is worse is if you believe that guys like Caggulia, Slep , Kharia, JP, will never get any better. From what I have seen about Khaira,if he continues the way he is playing, he can more than fill Letestu's shoes. But he has to keep doing what he is doing. We will find out this year. I like Caggulia as a player. He needs to avoid all the minor bumps and bruises. When he plays with good players, he does things. I like Slep as a player. Missing training time and camp is going to set a guy back. Before he got hurt with a groin, he was starting to come. I credit the groin injury again to a lack of camp and training time. I see him as a top 9 guy. JP keeps getting better. He has all the physical tools you want in a player. He has all the hard parts figured out, forechecking, being in the right spots defensively. He just needs to get some mojo offensively. I would put him on the PP right now and let him bomb away. Get some confidence. I think with confidence, he will take off.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703146 is a reply to message #703144 ]
Tue, 21 November 2017 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1436
Registered: October 2006
Location: Rocky Mountain House, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 15:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 14:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 13:49

Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 11:04

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09

The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.


It's going to take some managerial genius to make the next few years work (or a lot of luck in the cap increasing quickly). We have almost as much committed to just 14 players next year as we do for a full roster this year. Those 14 players include a few guys on the bubble like Malone, Khaira and Gryba.

If the cap increased by 5%, we'd have a $78.75MM salary cap next year. That means we'd have $17.32MM to resign or replace several players. The positions they currently hold:

Maroon - 1LW
Strome - 3C
Letestu - 3/4C
Caggiula - 3/1RW
Slepyshev - 2/3 RW
Cammalleri - 3LW
Pakarinen - 4LW
Nurse - 1/2LD
Benning - 2/3RD
Auvitu - 6/7D
Brossoit - 2G

Brossoit, Pakarinen and Auvitu are all fairly easily and cheaply replaced or resigned, but it will be difficult to keep costs low on the entire third line, and whether you sign or replace Maroon at 1LW, that's a big hole. 4th line centers who penalty kill usually make more than league minimum too. Expect that to be a seven-figure salary.

Nurse will be in line for a significant raise, especially given that he's the darling of the Edmonton media right now (beyond reproach - imagine if Klefbom had made those two back-to-back giveaways Nurse did against Dallas the other night).

Benning got stronger as the season progressed last year, and may again. The only saving grace on salary is that the Oilers still regularly make the baffling decision to play Russell over him on the second PP unit right now. That should help keep his offensive contributions in check to an extent (even if it doesn't help us score goals and win games).

Fortunately, we've got a great braintrust with a proven track record of balancing cap woes and not panicking when faced with tough decisions...right? Right??!?! Oh crap.


I am of the belief that Maroon won't be here. I said it a few times. I don't think you can have Maroon and Lucic on your team with the game getting as fast as it is. Lucic is locked here and I think the team needs more speed. I think they find away to keep Nuge and Nuge ends up being the 1st line LW.

Strome - I don't see how he gets a raise.
Letestu - Will be gone. He turns 33 and not fast enough anymore. I see Khaira taking his spot. He's way younger at 23, bigger, faster, more physical, already doing time on the PK, can win draws. He is already signed at 675K.
Caggiula - I have high hopes for him. I think he turns into McDavid's Sheary. Had 2 goals the other game in Dallas. He makes 925k. I don't rush to lock him up. I think he gets a modest raise.
Slep - Who knows what he is. Still hasn't established himself but I think he is a 3RW. This year can't stay healthy. He makes 925K. I think he gets a modest raise if any on a short contract.
Cammalleri- You can sign 3rd/4th line wingers for under 1 mill.
Pakarinen - 4th/extra. Makes 750K. You can get guys to replace him. They have Malone for another year who can play some center and he makes 650. I think they replace him from within.
Nurse - I don't think he gets over 4 mill like Klefbom given Klefbom at the time had more sexier skill set. I could see him signing a 2-3 yr deal at 3 mill. He made 863 so that would be a big raise.
Benning - I see him signing a 1-2 yr deal at maybe 2 mill. He can look like a top 4 one game, then be like he was in Dallas and look like a scratch candidate. He makes 925K. So if he makes around 2 mill, that's a healthy raise.
Auvitu - I don't see a point in replacing him. Once healthy, your top 6 are Klef, Larsson, Nurse, Benning, Sekera, Russell. Gryba is signed for 1 more year to sit in the pressbox. You got Stanton signed for 1 more at 700 you can be a #8. What about the other young guys? I don't see the point in replacing him.
Brossoit - Makes 750K. If you go with him, I don't see how you give him much of a raise.

I think it can be done.


If you're right, and I think you're being overly optimistic on some of these, you've spent approximately $13 Million, and you still haven't replaced your 1LW, and you've replaced Letestu, who plays even strength, PP and PK with Khaira, who's never likely to put up double digits for points in any NHL season. Your team, which looks horrible this year is getting worse.

You need Yamamoto to take a huge step forward just to hope to tread water here.


My belief is that one of Nuge or Leon takes Maroon spot. I would go with Nuge. Like I said, the game is getting faster and faster. Faster than I think Chia anticipated. Nuge this season is showing the Nuge we say 4 years ago. McLellan likes having more than one center, I believe he said when he took the job that Nuge could be the next Pavelski and it might finally be happening.

I would have:
Nuge - McDavid - Caggulia
Lucic - Drai - JP

If you think you need more size, you swap Cagguila and JP.

You drafted JP 4th overall. He will be 20. You have to play him at some point. Given the way he has played, his skating, his forecheck, he's coming. It's a gamble but I think he is a player.

3rd line: A cheap vet 3rd liner. Like a Cammalleri type. They are out there. - Strome - Slep. Maybe Yamamoto makes it.

4th line - Malone or cheap vet - Khaira - Kassian.

Maybe Kassian moves up to the 3rd line as I think he has more to give.

To your comment about Letestu. I see Khaira taking his PK duties and 4th line 5 on 5. On the PP, I see JP taking his spot. I could see Slep getting PP time as he's a right shot and has a good one.

To your point about the team looking worse. I don't agree. The line up is a lot faster and more skilled in my opinion. The only way it is worse is if you believe that guys like Caggulia, Slep , Kharia, JP, will never get any better. From what I have seen about Khaira,if he continues the way he is playing, he can more than fill Letestu's shoes. But he has to keep doing what he is doing. We will find out this year. I like Caggulia as a player. He needs to avoid all the minor bumps and bruises. When he plays with good players, he does things. I like Slep as a player. Missing training time and camp is going to set a guy back. Before he got hurt with a groin, he was starting to come. I credit the groin injury again to a lack of camp and training time. I see him as a top 9 guy. JP keeps getting better. He has all the physical tools you want in a player. He has all the hard parts figured out, forechecking, being in the right spots defensively. He just needs to get some mojo offensively. I would put him on the PP right now and let him bomb away. Get some confidence. I think with confidence, he will take off.


One could have said the same thing about a former #1 overall draft pick who was run out of town fishing



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703253 is a reply to message #703146 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 15:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 15:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 14:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 13:49

Adam wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 11:04

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 21 November 2017 10:09

The Oilers have about 8 million in cap space right now. They have 61.5M committed to 14 players next year. We need to figure a way to sign six main roster players with about 13M to just ice a team. Nevermind a good team. Which means anything we add by trade is for this year only. Which means we will likely lose more picks and prospects which makes the odds of finding good young players with bargin ELC deals even longer.

I guess we have Lucic. Hope he can still play then and isn't retired farting out his soup.


It's going to take some managerial genius to make the next few years work (or a lot of luck in the cap increasing quickly). We have almost as much committed to just 14 players next year as we do for a full roster this year. Those 14 players include a few guys on the bubble like Malone, Khaira and Gryba.

If the cap increased by 5%, we'd have a $78.75MM salary cap next year. That means we'd have $17.32MM to resign or replace several players. The positions they currently hold:

Maroon - 1LW
Strome - 3C
Letestu - 3/4C
Caggiula - 3/1RW
Slepyshev - 2/3 RW
Cammalleri - 3LW
Pakarinen - 4LW
Nurse - 1/2LD
Benning - 2/3RD
Auvitu - 6/7D
Brossoit - 2G

Brossoit, Pakarinen and Auvitu are all fairly easily and cheaply replaced or resigned, but it will be difficult to keep costs low on the entire third line, and whether you sign or replace Maroon at 1LW, that's a big hole. 4th line centers who penalty kill usually make more than league minimum too. Expect that to be a seven-figure salary.

Nurse will be in line for a significant raise, especially given that he's the darling of the Edmonton media right now (beyond reproach - imagine if Klefbom had made those two back-to-back giveaways Nurse did against Dallas the other night).

Benning got stronger as the season progressed last year, and may again. The only saving grace on salary is that the Oilers still regularly make the baffling decision to play Russell over him on the second PP unit right now. That should help keep his offensive contributions in check to an extent (even if it doesn't help us score goals and win games).

Fortunately, we've got a great braintrust with a proven track record of balancing cap woes and not panicking when faced with tough decisions...right? Right??!?! Oh crap.


I am of the belief that Maroon won't be here. I said it a few times. I don't think you can have Maroon and Lucic on your team with the game getting as fast as it is. Lucic is locked here and I think the team needs more speed. I think they find away to keep Nuge and Nuge ends up being the 1st line LW.

Strome - I don't see how he gets a raise.
Letestu - Will be gone. He turns 33 and not fast enough anymore. I see Khaira taking his spot. He's way younger at 23, bigger, faster, more physical, already doing time on the PK, can win draws. He is already signed at 675K.
Caggiula - I have high hopes for him. I think he turns into McDavid's Sheary. Had 2 goals the other game in Dallas. He makes 925k. I don't rush to lock him up. I think he gets a modest raise.
Slep - Who knows what he is. Still hasn't established himself but I think he is a 3RW. This year can't stay healthy. He makes 925K. I think he gets a modest raise if any on a short contract.
Cammalleri- You can sign 3rd/4th line wingers for under 1 mill.
Pakarinen - 4th/extra. Makes 750K. You can get guys to replace him. They have Malone for another year who can play some center and he makes 650. I think they replace him from within.
Nurse - I don't think he gets over 4 mill like Klefbom given Klefbom at the time had more sexier skill set. I could see him signing a 2-3 yr deal at 3 mill. He made 863 so that would be a big raise.
Benning - I see him signing a 1-2 yr deal at maybe 2 mill. He can look like a top 4 one game, then be like he was in Dallas and look like a scratch candidate. He makes 925K. So if he makes around 2 mill, that's a healthy raise.
Auvitu - I don't see a point in replacing him. Once healthy, your top 6 are Klef, Larsson, Nurse, Benning, Sekera, Russell. Gryba is signed for 1 more year to sit in the pressbox. You got Stanton signed for 1 more at 700 you can be a #8. What about the other young guys? I don't see the point in replacing him.
Brossoit - Makes 750K. If you go with him, I don't see how you give him much of a raise.

I think it can be done.


If you're right, and I think you're being overly optimistic on some of these, you've spent approximately $13 Million, and you still haven't replaced your 1LW, and you've replaced Letestu, who plays even strength, PP and PK with Khaira, who's never likely to put up double digits for points in any NHL season. Your team, which looks horrible this year is getting worse.

You need Yamamoto to take a huge step forward just to hope to tread water here.


My belief is that one of Nuge or Leon takes Maroon spot. I would go with Nuge. Like I said, the game is getting faster and faster. Faster than I think Chia anticipated. Nuge this season is showing the Nuge we say 4 years ago. McLellan likes having more than one center, I believe he said when he took the job that Nuge could be the next Pavelski and it might finally be happening.

I would have:
Nuge - McDavid - Caggulia
Lucic - Drai - JP

If you think you need more size, you swap Cagguila and JP.

You drafted JP 4th overall. He will be 20. You have to play him at some point. Given the way he has played, his skating, his forecheck, he's coming. It's a gamble but I think he is a player.

3rd line: A cheap vet 3rd liner. Like a Cammalleri type. They are out there. - Strome - Slep. Maybe Yamamoto makes it.

4th line - Malone or cheap vet - Khaira - Kassian.

Maybe Kassian moves up to the 3rd line as I think he has more to give.

To your comment about Letestu. I see Khaira taking his PK duties and 4th line 5 on 5. On the PP, I see JP taking his spot. I could see Slep getting PP time as he's a right shot and has a good one.

To your point about the team looking worse. I don't agree. The line up is a lot faster and more skilled in my opinion. The only way it is worse is if you believe that guys like Caggulia, Slep , Kharia, JP, will never get any better. From what I have seen about Khaira,if he continues the way he is playing, he can more than fill Letestu's shoes. But he has to keep doing what he is doing. We will find out this year. I like Caggulia as a player. He needs to avoid all the minor bumps and bruises. When he plays with good players, he does things. I like Slep as a player. Missing training time and camp is going to set a guy back. Before he got hurt with a groin, he was starting to come. I credit the groin injury again to a lack of camp and training time. I see him as a top 9 guy. JP keeps getting better. He has all the physical tools you want in a player. He has all the hard parts figured out, forechecking, being in the right spots defensively. He just needs to get some mojo offensively. I would put him on the PP right now and let him bomb away. Get some confidence. I think with confidence, he will take off.


One could have said the same thing about a former #1 overall draft pick who was run out of town fishing

Maybe. But when Yak was traded to the Blues, they started him in the top 6 but based on his play and how lousy he was, he was quickly dropped down the line up and only played 40 games. So he was scratched 42 times. The Blues had 2 coaches last year. So 2 different guys with different styles and opinions thought he wasn't good enough to even dress for 42 games. So while the Oilers deserve some blame, I don't blame the Oilers a ton. It's on Yak. Yak has been better in Colorado but he has 9 pts in 19 games where 5 of them came in the first 4 games. So that means he has 4 points in the last 15 games. He's on pace for below 40 pts. When you are drafted #1 overall and you have over 300 NHL games under your belt, you should be scoring more than 40 pts if you are lucky.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703294 is a reply to message #703253 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 08:55


Maybe. But when Yak was traded to the Blues, they started him in the top 6 but based on his play and how lousy he was, he was quickly dropped down the line up and only played 40 games. So he was scratched 42 times. The Blues had 2 coaches last year. So 2 different guys with different styles and opinions thought he wasn't good enough to even dress for 42 games. So while the Oilers deserve some blame, I don't blame the Oilers a ton. It's on Yak. Yak has been better in Colorado but he has 9 pts in 19 games where 5 of them came in the first 4 games. So that means he has 4 points in the last 15 games. He's on pace for below 40 pts. When you are drafted #1 overall and you have over 300 NHL games under your belt, you should be scoring more than 40 pts if you are lucky.


Again, you're falling trap to the same preconceived notions I was talking about with Pouliot.

It doesn't matter where a player was drafted after the draft. It only matters what he can contribute now.

A 40-point player is a very valuable asset. There were only 166 players who scored 40 points last year. That's just over 5 per team. The Oilers were slightly above that average - they had 6 guys hit the mark last year. It may be a stretch to see them get that many this year. They could probably use a depth forward who can produce like that in a complimentary role.

Honestly, 40 points puts Yakupov in the same conversation as Patrick Maroon, despite the fact that Maroon has played more with McDavid than anyone else the last two years. And the best part is that because of his history, you can get him relatively cheap...and probably still will be able to next summer. The Oilers should be looking for that kind of value player, not shunning them because they didn't live up to the hype when they were an 18 year old kid, or because one coach or another decided they weren't good enough for his lineup.

And when we have guys like that, we should be playing them in positions where they can be successful, not sticking them on the fourth line and saying if they score with the plugs in 9 minutes a night, that they can get promoted up the lineup.

Yakupov has decent skills and produced well whenever given a top six role, but when he was playing his single season under McLellan, he was rarely given any rope at all, rarely played with skilled players, and given the 10th most PP time per game.

The Oilers continually take players like this and obsess over what they aren't rather than realize what they do bring to the table. There's a lack of appreciation for the Purcells and Pouliots and Yakupovs because the team decides that if they aren't driving a line and putting up big numbers that they're completely useless and so we end up flushing them for a third round pick, buyout cap hit for four years and absolutely nothing that we still have. (It's actually quite amazing that out of the three, the only one we've got any value out of is Teddy Purcell, and even that is looking bleak unless you think Matthew Cairns has a chance to really make a leap forward.)



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703301 is a reply to message #703294 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 13:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 08:55


Maybe. But when Yak was traded to the Blues, they started him in the top 6 but based on his play and how lousy he was, he was quickly dropped down the line up and only played 40 games. So he was scratched 42 times. The Blues had 2 coaches last year. So 2 different guys with different styles and opinions thought he wasn't good enough to even dress for 42 games. So while the Oilers deserve some blame, I don't blame the Oilers a ton. It's on Yak. Yak has been better in Colorado but he has 9 pts in 19 games where 5 of them came in the first 4 games. So that means he has 4 points in the last 15 games. He's on pace for below 40 pts. When you are drafted #1 overall and you have over 300 NHL games under your belt, you should be scoring more than 40 pts if you are lucky.


Again, you're falling trap to the same preconceived notions I was talking about with Pouliot.

It doesn't matter where a player was drafted after the draft. It only matters what he can contribute now.

A 40-point player is a very valuable asset. There were only 166 players who scored 40 points last year. That's just over 5 per team. The Oilers were slightly above that average - they had 6 guys hit the mark last year. It may be a stretch to see them get that many this year. They could probably use a depth forward who can produce like that in a complimentary role.

Honestly, 40 points puts Yakupov in the same conversation as Patrick Maroon, despite the fact that Maroon has played more with McDavid than anyone else the last two years. And the best part is that because of his history, you can get him relatively cheap...and probably still will be able to next summer. The Oilers should be looking for that kind of value player, not shunning them because they didn't live up to the hype when they were an 18 year old kid, or because one coach or another decided they weren't good enough for his lineup.

And when we have guys like that, we should be playing them in positions where they can be successful, not sticking them on the fourth line and saying if they score with the plugs in 9 minutes a night, that they can get promoted up the lineup.

Yakupov has decent skills and produced well whenever given a top six role, but when he was playing his single season under McLellan, he was rarely given any rope at all, rarely played with skilled players, and given the 10th most PP time per game.

The Oilers continually take players like this and obsess over what they aren't rather than realize what they do bring to the table. There's a lack of appreciation for the Purcells and Pouliots and Yakupovs because the team decides that if they aren't driving a line and putting up big numbers that they're completely useless and so we end up flushing them for a third round pick, buyout cap hit for four years and absolutely nothing that we still have. (It's actually quite amazing that out of the three, the only one we've got any value out of is Teddy Purcell, and even that is looking bleak unless you think Matthew Cairns has a chance to really make a leap forward.)

You realize you are still arguing with me about a freaking NHL 4th liner in Pouliot and a non NHLer in Purcell? Do you realize that? Purcell played most of last season in the AHL and is in Russia right now. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=76732

So since you are clearly WAY more passionate about NHL 4th liners and non NHLers than I am and making their case about how terrible a move it is not to have them as Oilers. I give up. I am waving the white flag. I surrender. Wave Towel You win. You can be right. So here goes.

Pouliot. What a terrible mistake it was to buy out Pouliot. What an NHLer he is. Chia is a complete moron, he should be tarred, feather, publicly flogged, then fired. What an idiot he is. If Pouliot was here, the Oilers PK would be awesome and he'd be lighting it up and the Oilers would be tops in the division.

Purcell. He can't find an NHL job in 2 years, he had to go to Russia to get a job but Chia should have him on the Oilers. How is it that CHia hasn't called Purcell right now and begged him to come to save the Oilers? Chia is the worst GM in the NHL.

Thank you Adam. Thank you so much for pointing out the errors of my ways. I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know if Purcell has a clause in his KHL contract to get him out of it but maybe, just maybe Chia can bring back the missing piece in Pouliot. I am counting the days until #67 is back in Oilers colors. I can't wait!!!!! rock



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703317 is a reply to message #703301 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I read out there that Alex Petrovic has requested a trade. I watched him play in Red Deer. He was always big, mobile and physical. Looking at his bio, he's 25, 6'4, 206, right shot from Edmonton. It says he's a mobile, physical shut down dman. He doesn't help with offense from the back end but right now their defense can't defend. He's signed for this year at 1.875 mill then he is an RFA. He wants out because he's not playing a lot. I am probably dreaming but I wonder if you could get him for a Gryba and a mediocre prospect or pick? If he is not playing the Panthers can't expect a ton and they can't be too worried about his spot in the line up. So maybe a 6-7 who's half the price would get it done. You don't want to be playing Gryba a ton, Auvitu is a disaster and Benning is a train wreck this year. So at this point just having someone who goes in there and is solid in a 3rd pair would help some.

Not a drastic move but the Oilers could use all the help they can get.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703392 is a reply to message #703317 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakey  is currently offline Jakey
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 14:55

I read out there that Alex Petrovic has requested a trade. I watched him play in Red Deer. He was always big, mobile and physical. Looking at his bio, he's 25, 6'4, 206, right shot from Edmonton. It says he's a mobile, physical shut down dman. He doesn't help with offense from the back end but right now their defense can't defend. He's signed for this year at 1.875 mill then he is an RFA. He wants out because he's not playing a lot. I am probably dreaming but I wonder if you could get him for a Gryba and a mediocre prospect or pick? If he is not playing the Panthers can't expect a ton and they can't be too worried about his spot in the line up. So maybe a 6-7 who's half the price would get it done. You don't want to be playing Gryba a ton, Auvitu is a disaster and Benning is a train wreck this year. So at this point just having someone who goes in there and is solid in a 3rd pair would help some.

Not a drastic move but the Oilers could use all the help they can get.


I looked at this as well pretty heavily. He is a decent Dman, a #5 IMO. He has decent North/South mobility, but his lateral mobility is a little slow....meaning the 1st few steps are sluggish when in tight in corners, etc. I can live with that because Gryba is slower than the 2nd coming of you know who!!!

Looking at Florida's roster needs & I believe they would look at a 3rd line forward with size and some speed in exchange for Petrovic. I think Slepyshev fits what they require. I like Slepy, but Petrovic would help our D depth quite a bit & give us another Righy on the back end. If we think Khaira can finally play 3rd or 4th line minutes constistently then I would part with Slepy for Petrovic.
Plus the Cap implications give Florida a young guy coming off a entry level deal. Cheaper to sign than Petrovic next summer. That should be enogh to get him. I would do that deal.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703397 is a reply to message #703392 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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Jakey wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:34


I looked at this as well pretty heavily. He is a decent Dman, a #5 IMO. He has decent North/South mobility, but his lateral mobility is a little slow....meaning the 1st few steps are sluggish when in tight in corners, etc. I can live with that because Gryba is slower than the 2nd coming of you know who!!!

Looking at Florida's roster needs & I believe they would look at a 3rd line forward with size and some speed in exchange for Petrovic. I think Slepyshev fits what they require. I like Slepy, but Petrovic would help our D depth quite a bit & give us another Righy on the back end. If we think Khaira can finally play 3rd or 4th line minutes constistently then I would part with Slepy for Petrovic.
Plus the Cap implications give Florida a young guy coming off a entry level deal. Cheaper to sign than Petrovic next summer. That should be enogh to get him. I would do that deal.



I'm moving Kharia if I am looking to pick up Petrovic. Kharia and Slepyshev are basically a wash offensively (0.209 PPG for Slepyshev in 62 games, 0.194 PPG for Kharia in 36 games), but Slepyshev is faster, better defensively, and has more pro-experience via the KHL. Plus Slepyshev is a right shot, which is harder to come by. At the end of the day both are replaceable, but if given the option I'd move Kharia.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703400 is a reply to message #703397 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:53

Jakey wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:34


I looked at this as well pretty heavily. He is a decent Dman, a #5 IMO. He has decent North/South mobility, but his lateral mobility is a little slow....meaning the 1st few steps are sluggish when in tight in corners, etc. I can live with that because Gryba is slower than the 2nd coming of you know who!!!

Looking at Florida's roster needs & I believe they would look at a 3rd line forward with size and some speed in exchange for Petrovic. I think Slepyshev fits what they require. I like Slepy, but Petrovic would help our D depth quite a bit & give us another Righy on the back end. If we think Khaira can finally play 3rd or 4th line minutes constistently then I would part with Slepy for Petrovic.
Plus the Cap implications give Florida a young guy coming off a entry level deal. Cheaper to sign than Petrovic next summer. That should be enogh to get him. I would do that deal.



I'm moving Kharia if I am looking to pick up Petrovic. Kharia and Slepyshev are basically a wash offensively (0.209 PPG for Slepyshev in 62 games, 0.194 PPG for Kharia in 36 games), but Slepyshev is faster, better defensively, and has more pro-experience via the KHL. Plus Slepyshev is a right shot, which is harder to come by. At the end of the day both are replaceable, but if given the option I'd move Kharia.

The only thing I would say about Khaira is he can play center and he kills penalties. With Letestu being a UFA and being over 30 and slowing down big time, I think you need to move one from him. So you need a replacement and with their cap issues, that replacement needs to be cheap. Khaira makes 675 K. I like Slep a lot but he's a winger.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703409 is a reply to message #703400 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakey  is currently offline Jakey
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:11

ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:53

Jakey wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:34


I looked at this as well pretty heavily. He is a decent Dman, a #5 IMO. He has decent North/South mobility, but his lateral mobility is a little slow....meaning the 1st few steps are sluggish when in tight in corners, etc. I can live with that because Gryba is slower than the 2nd coming of you know who!!!

Looking at Florida's roster needs & I believe they would look at a 3rd line forward with size and some speed in exchange for Petrovic. I think Slepyshev fits what they require. I like Slepy, but Petrovic would help our D depth quite a bit & give us another Righy on the back end. If we think Khaira can finally play 3rd or 4th line minutes constistently then I would part with Slepy for Petrovic.
Plus the Cap implications give Florida a young guy coming off a entry level deal. Cheaper to sign than Petrovic next summer. That should be enogh to get him. I would do that deal.



I'm moving Kharia if I am looking to pick up Petrovic. Kharia and Slepyshev are basically a wash offensively (0.209 PPG for Slepyshev in 62 games, 0.194 PPG for Kharia in 36 games), but Slepyshev is faster, better defensively, and has more pro-experience via the KHL. Plus Slepyshev is a right shot, which is harder to come by. At the end of the day both are replaceable, but if given the option I'd move Kharia.

The only thing I would say about Khaira is he can play center and he kills penalties. With Letestu being a UFA and being over 30 and slowing down big time, I think you need to move one from him. So you need a replacement and with their cap issues, that replacement needs to be cheap. Khaira makes 675 K. I like Slep a lot but he's a winger.


Yep, Bingo!!!

Khaira is just starting to scratch out his career. He has shown some upside if he can get some consistency to his game. I doubt Florida sees enough in him to trade Petrovic even if you add in a 4th or 5th rd pick.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703457 is a reply to message #703409 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Jakey wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 11:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:11

ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:53

Jakey wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:34


I looked at this as well pretty heavily. He is a decent Dman, a #5 IMO. He has decent North/South mobility, but his lateral mobility is a little slow....meaning the 1st few steps are sluggish when in tight in corners, etc. I can live with that because Gryba is slower than the 2nd coming of you know who!!!

Looking at Florida's roster needs & I believe they would look at a 3rd line forward with size and some speed in exchange for Petrovic. I think Slepyshev fits what they require. I like Slepy, but Petrovic would help our D depth quite a bit & give us another Righy on the back end. If we think Khaira can finally play 3rd or 4th line minutes constistently then I would part with Slepy for Petrovic.
Plus the Cap implications give Florida a young guy coming off a entry level deal. Cheaper to sign than Petrovic next summer. That should be enogh to get him. I would do that deal.



I'm moving Kharia if I am looking to pick up Petrovic. Kharia and Slepyshev are basically a wash offensively (0.209 PPG for Slepyshev in 62 games, 0.194 PPG for Kharia in 36 games), but Slepyshev is faster, better defensively, and has more pro-experience via the KHL. Plus Slepyshev is a right shot, which is harder to come by. At the end of the day both are replaceable, but if given the option I'd move Kharia.

The only thing I would say about Khaira is he can play center and he kills penalties. With Letestu being a UFA and being over 30 and slowing down big time, I think you need to move one from him. So you need a replacement and with their cap issues, that replacement needs to be cheap. Khaira makes 675 K. I like Slep a lot but he's a winger.


Yep, Bingo!!!

Khaira is just starting to scratch out his career. He has shown some upside if he can get some consistency to his game. I doubt Florida sees enough in him to trade Petrovic even if you add in a 4th or 5th rd pick.



I don't know...there's a backlash against fancy stats in Florida right now, and Khaira is ripe for trading to someone who believes big guys who skate okay and throw hits are an important part of an NHL lineup. You might be able to get something for Khaira if you deal him early in his NHL career before he proves out that he is a sub 10-point per season guy...



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703469 is a reply to message #703457 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 20:04

Jakey wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 11:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:11

ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:53

Jakey wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:34


I looked at this as well pretty heavily. He is a decent Dman, a #5 IMO. He has decent North/South mobility, but his lateral mobility is a little slow....meaning the 1st few steps are sluggish when in tight in corners, etc. I can live with that because Gryba is slower than the 2nd coming of you know who!!!

Looking at Florida's roster needs & I believe they would look at a 3rd line forward with size and some speed in exchange for Petrovic. I think Slepyshev fits what they require. I like Slepy, but Petrovic would help our D depth quite a bit & give us another Righy on the back end. If we think Khaira can finally play 3rd or 4th line minutes constistently then I would part with Slepy for Petrovic.
Plus the Cap implications give Florida a young guy coming off a entry level deal. Cheaper to sign than Petrovic next summer. That should be enogh to get him. I would do that deal.



I'm moving Kharia if I am looking to pick up Petrovic. Kharia and Slepyshev are basically a wash offensively (0.209 PPG for Slepyshev in 62 games, 0.194 PPG for Kharia in 36 games), but Slepyshev is faster, better defensively, and has more pro-experience via the KHL. Plus Slepyshev is a right shot, which is harder to come by. At the end of the day both are replaceable, but if given the option I'd move Kharia.

The only thing I would say about Khaira is he can play center and he kills penalties. With Letestu being a UFA and being over 30 and slowing down big time, I think you need to move one from him. So you need a replacement and with their cap issues, that replacement needs to be cheap. Khaira makes 675 K. I like Slep a lot but he's a winger.


Yep, Bingo!!!

Khaira is just starting to scratch out his career. He has shown some upside if he can get some consistency to his game. I doubt Florida sees enough in him to trade Petrovic even if you add in a 4th or 5th rd pick.



I don't know...there's a backlash against fancy stats in Florida right now, and Khaira is ripe for trading to someone who believes big guys who skate okay and throw hits are an important part of an NHL lineup. You might be able to get something for Khaira if you deal him early in his NHL career before he proves out that he is a sub 10-point per season guy...


So based on your comments, I am guessing you think Khaira is garbage as well?

I am not going to argue with you about Khaira because quite frankly, I don't know what he is at this point. He's an Oilers draft pick - 3rd rounder - who they have been developing for 5 yrs. On paper he's big, strong, physical, sort of tough, he can skate, kill penalties, play center or wing and can take some faceoffs. He makes 675k which if it isn't the league minimum has to be extremely close to it. What's unknown is does he have enough offense to be a regular NHLer. He's played 36 NHL games and has 3 goals, 7 pts. This season in 11 games he's got 2 goals, 4 pts. What is decent 4th line production from a 4th liner getting zero PP time. 8 goals 20 points in a full season? So we will see where he ends up.

But if you look at what he brings, if you see that he is a decent enough skater and if he can put up good 4th liner numbers, why exactly are you pissing on him? Is it because he was drafted by the Oilers and you just don't like the current or past management? I am not jumping on the I Love Khaira bandwagon because I don't know what he is yet but I would think that we as fans would be routing for a guy like him to work out. So many of their draft picks other than first rounders were crap so here is a guy that might actually turn into something but now he's not worth keeping.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703494 is a reply to message #703469 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 08:41


So based on your comments, I am guessing you think Khaira is garbage as well?

I am not going to argue with you about Khaira because quite frankly, I don't know what he is at this point. He's an Oilers draft pick - 3rd rounder - who they have been developing for 5 yrs. On paper he's big, strong, physical, sort of tough, he can skate, kill penalties, play center or wing and can take some faceoffs. He makes 675k which if it isn't the league minimum has to be extremely close to it. What's unknown is does he have enough offense to be a regular NHLer. He's played 36 NHL games and has 3 goals, 7 pts. This season in 11 games he's got 2 goals, 4 pts. What is decent 4th line production from a 4th liner getting zero PP time. 8 goals 20 points in a full season? So we will see where he ends up.

But if you look at what he brings, if you see that he is a decent enough skater and if he can put up good 4th liner numbers, why exactly are you pissing on him? Is it because he was drafted by the Oilers and you just don't like the current or past management? I am not jumping on the I Love Khaira bandwagon because I don't know what he is yet but I would think that we as fans would be routing for a guy like him to work out. So many of their draft picks other than first rounders were crap so here is a guy that might actually turn into something but now he's not worth keeping.


I know it's always an unpopular thing to talk about the value of grinders. They are always the sacred cows in the NHL. We've been told again and again and again how incredibly value the lunch bucket guys are to teams, and that they're really the glue guys. You see this mythology even penetrate Team Canada thinking sometimes, with players like Yzerman, Crosby, Stamkos, etc. passed up for the Maltbys and Zamuners of the world.

I don't believe it's true. I've played on hockey teams all my life. If you can replace the bottom three guys on your team with more talented guys, your team is going to be better. I don't think there's much value in a guy who runs around throwing hits, but rarely puts up any offence.

I think Khaira's had a really good November. He has 4 points in his last 5 games, including his first and only two point night. It's the hottest streak of his entire career and it skews the numbers if you look at his year to date now and try to project over a 82 game schedule.

I believe that he's closer to the player we've seen in the first 31 games of his NHL career - the guy who's stats line reads 31GP 1-2-3. Why do I believe this? Well, here's his AHL career numbers: 133 GP, 22G, 35A, 47 Pts. He is not a prolific producer in the AHL. Most good fourth line NHL players are dominant when down a league. Look at Anton Lander's numbers. He had 163 points in 178 AHL games. He's scoring at three times the rate that Khaira is in the AHL. That's a better bet as a fourth line NHL player, whether you think his skating is great or not.

On top of the stats, I've watched most of Khaira's NHL games. I've seen a large number of his shifts in the NHL. I don't believe he has good hands. I don't see much ability for getting good shots on net - he averages a single shot per game, but they are rarely lasers that really challenge the netminder - and I don't think he's a great passer either. That's evidenced by the fact that even including his two assist night against Vegas, he's averaging one assist every NINE NHL games.

If Khaira is a 8-15 point player as an 82-game NHL forward, then A) he's completely replaceable. That's really poor production and the team can find any number of guys who can produce that much or more. And B) his spot is better served by adding a player who has a possibility of challenging to move up the roster. If you have guys on the fourth line who can play more than a checking role, then it adds competitive pressure within your lineup. Your second and third liners need to continue to perform so as to protect their spots. Having plugs on your fourth line just means that you have a line that's going to at best break even in their 10-12 minutes of icetime.

Maybe I'm wrong, and Khaira just suddenly got it five games ago and he's going to continue piling up points and be the winger we need there...but I'll be surprised if it's so. Pleasantly surprised - I'm not cheering against him, I just don't believe he has the tools.




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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703499 is a reply to message #703494 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 13:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 08:41


So based on your comments, I am guessing you think Khaira is garbage as well?

I am not going to argue with you about Khaira because quite frankly, I don't know what he is at this point. He's an Oilers draft pick - 3rd rounder - who they have been developing for 5 yrs. On paper he's big, strong, physical, sort of tough, he can skate, kill penalties, play center or wing and can take some faceoffs. He makes 675k which if it isn't the league minimum has to be extremely close to it. What's unknown is does he have enough offense to be a regular NHLer. He's played 36 NHL games and has 3 goals, 7 pts. This season in 11 games he's got 2 goals, 4 pts. What is decent 4th line production from a 4th liner getting zero PP time. 8 goals 20 points in a full season? So we will see where he ends up.

But if you look at what he brings, if you see that he is a decent enough skater and if he can put up good 4th liner numbers, why exactly are you pissing on him? Is it because he was drafted by the Oilers and you just don't like the current or past management? I am not jumping on the I Love Khaira bandwagon because I don't know what he is yet but I would think that we as fans would be routing for a guy like him to work out. So many of their draft picks other than first rounders were crap so here is a guy that might actually turn into something but now he's not worth keeping.


I know it's always an unpopular thing to talk about the value of grinders. They are always the sacred cows in the NHL. We've been told again and again and again how incredibly value the lunch bucket guys are to teams, and that they're really the glue guys. You see this mythology even penetrate Team Canada thinking sometimes, with players like Yzerman, Crosby, Stamkos, etc. passed up for the Maltbys and Zamuners of the world.

I don't believe it's true. I've played on hockey teams all my life. If you can replace the bottom three guys on your team with more talented guys, your team is going to be better. I don't think there's much value in a guy who runs around throwing hits, but rarely puts up any offence.

I think Khaira's had a really good November. He has 4 points in his last 5 games, including his first and only two point night. It's the hottest streak of his entire career and it skews the numbers if you look at his year to date now and try to project over a 82 game schedule.

I believe that he's closer to the player we've seen in the first 31 games of his NHL career - the guy who's stats line reads 31GP 1-2-3. Why do I believe this? Well, here's his AHL career numbers: 133 GP, 22G, 35A, 47 Pts. He is not a prolific producer in the AHL. Most good fourth line NHL players are dominant when down a league. Look at Anton Lander's numbers. He had 163 points in 178 AHL games. He's scoring at three times the rate that Khaira is in the AHL. That's a better bet as a fourth line NHL player, whether you think his skating is great or not.

On top of the stats, I've watched most of Khaira's NHL games. I've seen a large number of his shifts in the NHL. I don't believe he has good hands. I don't see much ability for getting good shots on net - he averages a single shot per game, but they are rarely lasers that really challenge the netminder - and I don't think he's a great passer either. That's evidenced by the fact that even including his two assist night against Vegas, he's averaging one assist every NINE NHL games.

If Khaira is a 8-15 point player as an 82-game NHL forward, then A) he's completely replaceable. That's really poor production and the team can find any number of guys who can produce that much or more. And B) his spot is better served by adding a player who has a possibility of challenging to move up the roster. If you have guys on the fourth line who can play more than a checking role, then it adds competitive pressure within your lineup. Your second and third liners need to continue to perform so as to protect their spots. Having plugs on your fourth line just means that you have a line that's going to at best break even in their 10-12 minutes of icetime.

Maybe I'm wrong, and Khaira just suddenly got it five games ago and he's going to continue piling up points and be the winger we need there...but I'll be surprised if it's so. Pleasantly surprised - I'm not cheering against him, I just don't believe he has the tools.



What exactly is your expectation offensively of an NHL 4th liner? I am just curious.

Letestu was the Oilers 4th line center that got significant PP time last year. I am going to guess that most 4th liners don't get a lot of PP time on most teams. He scored 16 goals and 35 pts but 11 goals and 14 pts were on the PP. So that means he scored 5 goals and 21 pts not on the PP. He scored 2 short handed goals. So if a 4th line player scores you 5-10 goals, 20 pts, kills some penalties, won some faceoffs while getting 10-12 mins a night and not getting destroyed defensively is that not good enough? I am not saying Khaira is a lock to get those numbers, I hope he can but he hasn't proven he can yet. But I get the impression from you that your expectation of the offence that a 4th liner produces is pretty high. Considering that a 20 goal man is considered a first liner on a lot of teams, what do you think a 4th line winger should sore?



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703501 is a reply to message #703499 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 14:09

Adam wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 13:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 08:41


So based on your comments, I am guessing you think Khaira is garbage as well?

I am not going to argue with you about Khaira because quite frankly, I don't know what he is at this point. He's an Oilers draft pick - 3rd rounder - who they have been developing for 5 yrs. On paper he's big, strong, physical, sort of tough, he can skate, kill penalties, play center or wing and can take some faceoffs. He makes 675k which if it isn't the league minimum has to be extremely close to it. What's unknown is does he have enough offense to be a regular NHLer. He's played 36 NHL games and has 3 goals, 7 pts. This season in 11 games he's got 2 goals, 4 pts. What is decent 4th line production from a 4th liner getting zero PP time. 8 goals 20 points in a full season? So we will see where he ends up.

But if you look at what he brings, if you see that he is a decent enough skater and if he can put up good 4th liner numbers, why exactly are you pissing on him? Is it because he was drafted by the Oilers and you just don't like the current or past management? I am not jumping on the I Love Khaira bandwagon because I don't know what he is yet but I would think that we as fans would be routing for a guy like him to work out. So many of their draft picks other than first rounders were crap so here is a guy that might actually turn into something but now he's not worth keeping.


I know it's always an unpopular thing to talk about the value of grinders. They are always the sacred cows in the NHL. We've been told again and again and again how incredibly value the lunch bucket guys are to teams, and that they're really the glue guys. You see this mythology even penetrate Team Canada thinking sometimes, with players like Yzerman, Crosby, Stamkos, etc. passed up for the Maltbys and Zamuners of the world.

I don't believe it's true. I've played on hockey teams all my life. If you can replace the bottom three guys on your team with more talented guys, your team is going to be better. I don't think there's much value in a guy who runs around throwing hits, but rarely puts up any offence.

I think Khaira's had a really good November. He has 4 points in his last 5 games, including his first and only two point night. It's the hottest streak of his entire career and it skews the numbers if you look at his year to date now and try to project over a 82 game schedule.

I believe that he's closer to the player we've seen in the first 31 games of his NHL career - the guy who's stats line reads 31GP 1-2-3. Why do I believe this? Well, here's his AHL career numbers: 133 GP, 22G, 35A, 47 Pts. He is not a prolific producer in the AHL. Most good fourth line NHL players are dominant when down a league. Look at Anton Lander's numbers. He had 163 points in 178 AHL games. He's scoring at three times the rate that Khaira is in the AHL. That's a better bet as a fourth line NHL player, whether you think his skating is great or not.

On top of the stats, I've watched most of Khaira's NHL games. I've seen a large number of his shifts in the NHL. I don't believe he has good hands. I don't see much ability for getting good shots on net - he averages a single shot per game, but they are rarely lasers that really challenge the netminder - and I don't think he's a great passer either. That's evidenced by the fact that even including his two assist night against Vegas, he's averaging one assist every NINE NHL games.

If Khaira is a 8-15 point player as an 82-game NHL forward, then A) he's completely replaceable. That's really poor production and the team can find any number of guys who can produce that much or more. And B) his spot is better served by adding a player who has a possibility of challenging to move up the roster. If you have guys on the fourth line who can play more than a checking role, then it adds competitive pressure within your lineup. Your second and third liners need to continue to perform so as to protect their spots. Having plugs on your fourth line just means that you have a line that's going to at best break even in their 10-12 minutes of icetime.

Maybe I'm wrong, and Khaira just suddenly got it five games ago and he's going to continue piling up points and be the winger we need there...but I'll be surprised if it's so. Pleasantly surprised - I'm not cheering against him, I just don't believe he has the tools.



What exactly is your expectation offensively of an NHL 4th liner? I am just curious.

Letestu was the Oilers 4th line center that got significant PP time last year. I am going to guess that most 4th liners don't get a lot of PP time on most teams. He scored 16 goals and 35 pts but 11 goals and 14 pts were on the PP. So that means he scored 5 goals and 21 pts not on the PP. He scored 2 short handed goals. So if a 4th line player scores you 5-10 goals, 20 pts, kills some penalties, won some faceoffs while getting 10-12 mins a night and not getting destroyed defensively is that not good enough? I am not saying Khaira is a lock to get those numbers, I hope he can but he hasn't proven he can yet. But I get the impression from you that your expectation of the offence that a 4th liner produces is pretty high. Considering that a 20 goal man is considered a first liner on a lot of teams, what do you think a 4th line winger should sore?


Yes, I think every fourth liner on your team should be someone you can reasonably expect to get 20-25 points. Not all of them will every year, but they should have the talent to do so.

Ideally, I'm playing young guys on the fourth line who are likely to be first and second liners given a couple years time. This is the Chicago model. They've pretty regularly had guys like Teuvo Teravainen starting there and then climbing the ladder. They push up on the other lines, rather than just expect to always just cling to a fourth line role.

The Oilers had a line like that when they last won the Cup. The fourth line was Murphy, Graves and Gelinas. They ate other team's fourth lines for lunch because they were young, fast, hungry and all three had some offensive ability.

I don't believe that Khaira is a 20 point player. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I don't see him getting above 15 points in his best ever season. I dont think anyone on any other line is worried about Khaira eventually taking their job. He's lucky just to be in the NHL. That's not the guy I want in that role unless i have no better options.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703503 is a reply to message #703501 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Here is the Pens lines from last years Cup finals.
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/6/5/15739808/2017-stanley- cup-final-game-4-projected-lines-penguins-predators-injuries

Rowney had 7 pts in 27 games, play a bunch in the AHL.
Archibald had 3 pts in 10 games, played a bunch in the AHL. Those lines were from game 4 of the cup finals.
They had Sheary listed on the 4th line, he's a top 6 player.

Here is the lines as of 3 days ago for this years Pens.
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/line- combinations/

Kuhnhackl - McKegg - Reaves as their current 4th line.
Kuhnhackl in 24 games as 3 assists. Last year in 57 games he had 4 goals, 16 pts.
McKegg in 24 games has 2 goals, 2 assists. Last year in 46 total games had 3 goals, 7 pts.
Reaves in 24 games as 1 goal and 2 assists. Last season played 80 games, had 7 goals 13 pts.

So your expectation for a 4th liner is 20-25 pts, when the Cup champs currently dress 3 guys who scored WAY less and in cup finals, dressed 2 guys who weren't even close to being that good.






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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703504 is a reply to message #703503 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 14:45

Here is the Pens lines from last years Cup finals.
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/6/5/15739808/2017-stanley- cup-final-game-4-projected-lines-penguins-predators-injuries

Rowney had 7 pts in 27 games, play a bunch in the AHL.
Archibald had 3 pts in 10 games, played a bunch in the AHL. Those lines were from game 4 of the cup finals.
They had Sheary listed on the 4th line, he's a top 6 player.

Here is the lines as of 3 days ago for this years Pens.
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/line- combinations/

Kuhnhackl - McKegg - Reaves as their current 4th line.
Kuhnhackl in 24 games as 3 assists. Last year in 57 games he had 4 goals, 16 pts.
McKegg in 24 games has 2 goals, 2 assists. Last year in 46 total games had 3 goals, 7 pts.
Reaves in 24 games as 1 goal and 2 assists. Last season played 80 games, had 7 goals 13 pts.

So your expectation for a 4th liner is 20-25 pts, when the Cup champs currently dress 3 guys who scored WAY less and in cup finals, dressed 2 guys who weren't even close to being that good.



There's going to be lots of teams with fourth liners that don't score 20-25 points. Two reasons for that:

1. There's a scarce number of talented players
2. Lots of GMs make bad decisions.
3. Cap concerns are going to force decisions down the roster for teams with limited cap space.

If we can't afford anyone better, Khaira is adequate. That's it. The best you hope for with that player is that he's adequate in a fourth line role.

It's great that you have more faith in his abilities than I do, but I'd rather have Anton Lander there, to be honest. I'd rather see what Ty Rattie can do. I'd watch the waiver wire for anyone better too. I'd have absolutely no qualms about losing the player whether by trade or waivers, because he's incredibly easily replaced.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703506 is a reply to message #703504 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 14:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 14:45

Here is the Pens lines from last years Cup finals.
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/6/5/15739808/2017-stanley- cup-final-game-4-projected-lines-penguins-predators-injuries

Rowney had 7 pts in 27 games, play a bunch in the AHL.
Archibald had 3 pts in 10 games, played a bunch in the AHL. Those lines were from game 4 of the cup finals.
They had Sheary listed on the 4th line, he's a top 6 player.

Here is the lines as of 3 days ago for this years Pens.
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/line- combinations/

Kuhnhackl - McKegg - Reaves as their current 4th line.
Kuhnhackl in 24 games as 3 assists. Last year in 57 games he had 4 goals, 16 pts.
McKegg in 24 games has 2 goals, 2 assists. Last year in 46 total games had 3 goals, 7 pts.
Reaves in 24 games as 1 goal and 2 assists. Last season played 80 games, had 7 goals 13 pts.

So your expectation for a 4th liner is 20-25 pts, when the Cup champs currently dress 3 guys who scored WAY less and in cup finals, dressed 2 guys who weren't even close to being that good.



There's going to be lots of teams with fourth liners that don't score 20-25 points. Two reasons for that:

1. There's a scarce number of talented players
2. Lots of GMs make bad decisions.
3. Cap concerns are going to force decisions down the roster for teams with limited cap space.

If we can't afford anyone better, Khaira is adequate. That's it. The best you hope for with that player is that he's adequate in a fourth line role.

It's great that you have more faith in his abilities than I do, but I'd rather have Anton Lander there, to be honest. I'd rather see what Ty Rattie can do. I'd watch the waiver wire for anyone better too. I'd have absolutely no qualms about losing the player whether by trade or waivers, because he's incredibly easily replaced.

So if you admit that there is a scarce number of talented player especially ones to be on your 4th line. Which by the way I agree with you completely. You also admit that cap concerns as you can't really afford to pay your 4th liners much so that further eliminates having talented guys on your 4th line for very long. Why are you arguing to get rid of Khaira?

Is he really talented? NO. But he's big, can skate, kill penalties, win some draws, he's home grown and cheap at 675. The league minimum player salary is 650K. http://www.colliganhockey.com/nhl-cba-minimum-nhl-salary/

So seriously, what else do you want from the guy? We don't know if he can score enough, this is true. He probably won't get 25 pts in your perfect scenario because most NHL 4th liners don't score close to that but could he get high teens? Maybe. He's got 4 pts in 11 games. Does he continue that. We shall see.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #703515 is a reply to message #703506 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 15:23

Adam wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 14:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 November 2017 14:45

Here is the Pens lines from last years Cup finals.
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/6/5/15739808/2017-stanley- cup-final-game-4-projected-lines-penguins-predators-injuries

Rowney had 7 pts in 27 games, play a bunch in the AHL.
Archibald had 3 pts in 10 games, played a bunch in the AHL. Those lines were from game 4 of the cup finals.
They had Sheary listed on the 4th line, he's a top 6 player.

Here is the lines as of 3 days ago for this years Pens.
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/line- combinations/

Kuhnhackl - McKegg - Reaves as their current 4th line.
Kuhnhackl in 24 games as 3 assists. Last year in 57 games he had 4 goals, 16 pts.
McKegg in 24 games has 2 goals, 2 assists. Last year in 46 total games had 3 goals, 7 pts.
Reaves in 24 games as 1 goal and 2 assists. Last season played 80 games, had 7 goals 13 pts.

So your expectation for a 4th liner is 20-25 pts, when the Cup champs currently dress 3 guys who scored WAY less and in cup finals, dressed 2 guys who weren't even close to being that good.



There's going to be lots of teams with fourth liners that don't score 20-25 points. Two reasons for that:

1. There's a scarce number of talented players
2. Lots of GMs make bad decisions.
3. Cap concerns are going to force decisions down the roster for teams with limited cap space.

If we can't afford anyone better, Khaira is adequate. That's it. The best you hope for with that player is that he's adequate in a fourth line role.

It's great that you have more faith in his abilities than I do, but I'd rather have Anton Lander there, to be honest. I'd rather see what Ty Rattie can do. I'd watch the waiver wire for anyone better too. I'd have absolutely no qualms about losing the player whether by trade or waivers, because he's incredibly easily replaced.

So if you admit that there is a scarce number of talented player especially ones to be on your 4th line. Which by the way I agree with you completely. You also admit that cap concerns as you can't really afford to pay your 4th liners much so that further eliminates having talented guys on your 4th line for very long. Why are you arguing to get rid of Khaira?

Is he really talented? NO. But he's big, can skate, kill penalties, win some draws, he's home grown and cheap at 675. The league minimum player salary is 650K. http://www.colliganhockey.com/nhl-cba-minimum-nhl-salary/

So seriously, what else do you want from the guy? We don't know if he can score enough, this is true. He probably won't get 25 pts in your perfect scenario because most NHL 4th liners don't score close to that but could he get high teens? Maybe. He's got 4 pts in 11 games. Does he continue that. We shall see.


I believe from both historical stats and from the eye test that he's not a player who gets you high teens in his career. If he does, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

As mentioned, I think his 4 points are a statistical anomaly and I don't expect that hot hand to continue.



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #706356 is a reply to message #702962 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
Messages: 1099
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Location: GP, AB

1 Cup

Just some daydreaming (wishful thinking) on a slow work day....

If the unthinkable was to happen and TMac was to get fired, who could replace him? I've taken the names mentioned in this thread (as well as Sutter as he was mentioned elsewhere) and listed some info.

Dave Tippett- 553/1114, 3 Division titles (DAL, DAL, PHO), 2010 Jack Adams, age 56 (currently not coaching)

Todd Nelson- 17/51, 3rd player to ever win Calder Cup as a player, an assistant coach and as a head coach, age 48 (currently head coach of AHL team in Grand Rapids)

Ralph Krueger- 19/48, was special advisor to Hockey Canada's 2014 Olympic team (Gold) and coached Europe in the 2016 World Cup of Hockey (2nd), aged 58 (currently as far away from MacT as possible in his position as Chairman of the South Hampton Football Club after he had a brief stint as the head coach of said team)

Darryl Sutter- 635/1285, 2 Stanley Cups (LA 2012, 2014), aged 59 (currently not coaching)


Well, I think it's clear then.

Fire TMac, Woodcroft and Johnson, and then hire Sutter with Tippett and Nelson as his assistants. *BONUS* Darryl's brother Dwayne is already high in the org, which is almost as good as Darryl being an ex-Oiler.

[Updated on: Wed, 03 January 2018 12:22]


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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #706367 is a reply to message #706356 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sloiler  is currently offline sloiler
Messages: 178
Registered: October 2005
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No Cups

Dare to dream..... However this would come down to Katz having a say in the matter. He would have to pay TMac $3M for an additional 2 years plus whatever the assistants are making.

However much I want the coaching staff gone. I don't think it is going to happen.

However what is going to cost more, paying Tmac an additional $6M or McDavid saying screw this organization I want a trade.... ( I read that rumor on Twitter this morning)



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #706368 is a reply to message #706367 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9654
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

sloiler wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:36

Dare to dream..... However this would come down to Katz having a say in the matter. He would have to pay TMac $3M for an additional 2 years plus whatever the assistants are making.

However much I want the coaching staff gone. I don't think it is going to happen.

However what is going to cost more, paying Tmac an additional $6M or McDavid saying screw this organization I want a trade.... ( I read that rumor on Twitter this morning)


Just curious. Do you have to keep paying assistants in these cases? Wouldn't the assistants be on less secure shorter term deals?

I don't think I've ever seen it talked about before that an assistant was still being paid by an org or teams needed permission to talk to a fired assistant because he's still under contract.



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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #706371 is a reply to message #706368 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 8260
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:40

sloiler wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:36

Dare to dream..... However this would come down to Katz having a say in the matter. He would have to pay TMac $3M for an additional 2 years plus whatever the assistants are making.

However much I want the coaching staff gone. I don't think it is going to happen.

However what is going to cost more, paying Tmac an additional $6M or McDavid saying screw this organization I want a trade.... ( I read that rumor on Twitter this morning)


Just curious. Do you have to keep paying assistants in these cases? Wouldn't the assistants be on less secure shorter term deals?

I don't think I've ever seen it talked about before that an assistant was still being paid by an org or teams needed permission to talk to a fired assistant because he's still under contract.


I would imagine it's likely the same. I would guess that there's more likelihood of shorter, cheaper contracts, because they don't have the same ability to demand better, but I do think that they're likely guaranteed.

My best guess is that you don't hear about people asking permission on these because no one cares that much about an assistant coach.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #706374 is a reply to message #706371 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1436
Registered: October 2006
Location: Rocky Mountain House, AB

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:53

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:40

sloiler wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:36

Dare to dream..... However this would come down to Katz having a say in the matter. He would have to pay TMac $3M for an additional 2 years plus whatever the assistants are making.

However much I want the coaching staff gone. I don't think it is going to happen.

However what is going to cost more, paying Tmac an additional $6M or McDavid saying screw this organization I want a trade.... ( I read that rumor on Twitter this morning)


Just curious. Do you have to keep paying assistants in these cases? Wouldn't the assistants be on less secure shorter term deals?

I don't think I've ever seen it talked about before that an assistant was still being paid by an org or teams needed permission to talk to a fired assistant because he's still under contract.


I would imagine it's likely the same. I would guess that there's more likelihood of shorter, cheaper contracts, because they don't have the same ability to demand better, but I do think that they're likely guaranteed.

My best guess is that you don't hear about people asking permission on these because no one cares that much about an assistant coach.


Can we get a refund on the draft pick we had to give up to get Chia / TMac if we end up dumping em? :D



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 Re: Drastic Measures [message #706377 is a reply to message #706374 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 16:05 Go to previous message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 5896
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

5 Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 15:53

Adam wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:53

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:40

sloiler wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 14:36

Dare to dream..... However this would come down to Katz having a say in the matter. He would have to pay TMac $3M for an additional 2 years plus whatever the assistants are making.

However much I want the coaching staff gone. I don't think it is going to happen.

However what is going to cost more, paying Tmac an additional $6M or McDavid saying screw this organization I want a trade.... ( I read that rumor on Twitter this morning)


Just curious. Do you have to keep paying assistants in these cases? Wouldn't the assistants be on less secure shorter term deals?

I don't think I've ever seen it talked about before that an assistant was still being paid by an org or teams needed permission to talk to a fired assistant because he's still under contract.


I would imagine it's likely the same. I would guess that there's more likelihood of shorter, cheaper contracts, because they don't have the same ability to demand better, but I do think that they're likely guaranteed.

My best guess is that you don't hear about people asking permission on these because no one cares that much about an assistant coach.


Can we get a refund on the draft pick we had to give up to get Chia / TMac if we end up dumping em? :D


Only if we hire Lou Lamoriello.



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