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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #700995 is a reply to message #700994 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Twitter now recanting Reinhart move. Still requires multiple draft picks to get him...for now.

He has been a healthy scratch all season though, so maybe it's a first rounder and a late second round only.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701008 is a reply to message #700994 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 10:16

Reinhart on waivers too.

Can be acquired without giving up a first and a second round pick this time!!!


You strike me as a guy that holds on to a grudge for pretty much forever I take it. No one knew Vegas was coming into the league or how expansion would work but regardless it was a bad trade, it didn't work out. Name me a GM that hasn't made a bad move?



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701009 is a reply to message #701008 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I believe Vegas got Nikita Gusev who's in the KHL, a 2nd and a 4th to not take anyone good off Tampa and take Garrison to help them with their cap. Great idea. icon_rolleyes


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701010 is a reply to message #701008 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 11:54

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 10:16

Reinhart on waivers too.

Can be acquired without giving up a first and a second round pick this time!!!


You strike me as a guy that holds on to a grudge for pretty much forever I take it. No one knew Vegas was coming into the league or how expansion would work but regardless it was a bad trade, it didn't work out. Name me a GM that hasn't made a bad move?


I don't hold grudges forever. I do however expect a lot of the GM of my hockey team. I believe that he should have a singular focus on winning Stanley Cups, and when you have just drafted a generational player, that should look at right now.

I believe that he has not done a very good job at improving the team in the two and a half years since he has been hired. He inherited a team with a great deal of skill and speed, although some inexperience. He's benefited by having the best player in the game and a couple nice complimentary pieces that he didn't add.

He made a good deal for a goalie, and a couple decent deals for wingers in Maroon and Kassian. It's worth noting that Sather has seemed to always have a soft spot for Edmonton in trades - remember the Petr Nedved sweetheart deal?

He's made several mistakes in free agency, and handed out long-term, high-dollar contracts. That includes handing out no-move clauses like Halloween candy.

He's made two high profile trades, and lost badly on both. And the only time in two and a half years that he gambled any future assets, he traded high value assets for a guy who wasn't tracking particularly well based on his draft pedigree.

Consider this - Griffin Reinhart, the 4th overall pick in the 2012 draft, who at the time had 8 NHL games to his name cost us the 16th and 33rd overall picks in the 2015 draft. Nail Yakupov, the 1st overall pick in the same draft, who at the time of his trade had 252 NHL games and 111 NHL points, got us an expiring contract for a dead-end prospect and a third round pick.

I keep going back to the Behind the B video - you see it all there in how he handled the Seguin deal. The panicky response to things not going his way, the negotiation that's entirely based around just saying who you're thinking of giving up, without much thought in to the ask, the terrible return in a trade.

I don't believe that there's a great negotiator behind the desk of the Edmonton Oilers. I think it's a massive weakness, and that other GMs realize and exploit that. It's embarrassing that the organization has been taken to the woodshed TWICE by back-up goalie general manager Garth Snow.

And that's a massive issue if you want to see the Oilers win Stanley Cups - which I believe you want just as much as I do. If you have someone who's not capable of negotiating effectively trying to make trades and sign free agents, what you're going to see is a constant erosion on this team. It's going to impact our ability to win, even with the best player in the world on the roster.

This isn't about a grudge - it's about wanting the team to be the Champions again, and not having faith in a guy who values Dougie Hamilton and Griffin Reinhart almost the same.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701013 is a reply to message #701010 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 11:17


Consider this - Griffin Reinhart, the 4th overall pick in the 2012 draft, who at the time had 8 NHL games to his name cost us the 16th and 33rd overall picks in the 2015 draft. Nail Yakupov, the 1st overall pick in the same draft, who at the time of his trade had 252 NHL games and 111 NHL points, got us an expiring contract for a dead-end prospect and a third round pick.



Well, when you put it that way...now I feel worse. Thanks icon_wink



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701019 is a reply to message #701013 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 12:24

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 11:17


Consider this - Griffin Reinhart, the 4th overall pick in the 2012 draft, who at the time had 8 NHL games to his name cost us the 16th and 33rd overall picks in the 2015 draft. Nail Yakupov, the 1st overall pick in the same draft, who at the time of his trade had 252 NHL games and 111 NHL points, got us an expiring contract for a dead-end prospect and a third round pick.



Well, when you put it that way...now I feel worse. Thanks icon_wink


It's an interesting juxtaposition when you look at the values that Chiarelli puts to players like Yakupov vs. Reinhart vs. Hamilton.

There's often an argument that fans over-value their own players, but I think there's an opposite error as well, where fans (and GMs) under-value players due to familiarity. There's a few factors that really play in to this - Failure to live up to expectations, focus on the player's flaws as opposed to strengths, overall team performance being conflated with individual player performance.

I think on top of this, when it comes to GMs, there's a tendency to undervalue players brought in by the previous administration. You look at Chiarelli and he has seemed pretty happy with the contributions of only one of the four $6MM men he's had...and he's the one with the worst offensive contributions of the four, but then he's Chia's pet and the biggest free agent signing he's done in Edmonton.

Add to that a long-standing Oilers tradition of running a player down before and after trading him so that you can try to convince the fans that even a lost trade is sort of addition by subtraction, and you have the recipe for failure.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701020 is a reply to message #701010 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 12:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 11:54

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 10:16

Reinhart on waivers too.

Can be acquired without giving up a first and a second round pick this time!!!


You strike me as a guy that holds on to a grudge for pretty much forever I take it. No one knew Vegas was coming into the league or how expansion would work but regardless it was a bad trade, it didn't work out. Name me a GM that hasn't made a bad move?


I don't hold grudges forever. I do however expect a lot of the GM of my hockey team. I believe that he should have a singular focus on winning Stanley Cups, and when you have just drafted a generational player, that should look at right now.

I believe that he has not done a very good job at improving the team in the two and a half years since he has been hired. He inherited a team with a great deal of skill and speed, although some inexperience. He's benefited by having the best player in the game and a couple nice complimentary pieces that he didn't add.

He made a good deal for a goalie, and a couple decent deals for wingers in Maroon and Kassian. It's worth noting that Sather has seemed to always have a soft spot for Edmonton in trades - remember the Petr Nedved sweetheart deal?

He's made several mistakes in free agency, and handed out long-term, high-dollar contracts. That includes handing out no-move clauses like Halloween candy.

He's made two high profile trades, and lost badly on both. And the only time in two and a half years that he gambled any future assets, he traded high value assets for a guy who wasn't tracking particularly well based on his draft pedigree.

Consider this - Griffin Reinhart, the 4th overall pick in the 2012 draft, who at the time had 8 NHL games to his name cost us the 16th and 33rd overall picks in the 2015 draft. Nail Yakupov, the 1st overall pick in the same draft, who at the time of his trade had 252 NHL games and 111 NHL points, got us an expiring contract for a dead-end prospect and a third round pick.

I keep going back to the Behind the B video - you see it all there in how he handled the Seguin deal. The panicky response to things not going his way, the negotiation that's entirely based around just saying who you're thinking of giving up, without much thought in to the ask, the terrible return in a trade.

I don't believe that there's a great negotiator behind the desk of the Edmonton Oilers. I think it's a massive weakness, and that other GMs realize and exploit that. It's embarrassing that the organization has been taken to the woodshed TWICE by back-up goalie general manager Garth Snow.

And that's a massive issue if you want to see the Oilers win Stanley Cups - which I believe you want just as much as I do. If you have someone who's not capable of negotiating effectively trying to make trades and sign free agents, what you're going to see is a constant erosion on this team. It's going to impact our ability to win, even with the best player in the world on the roster.

This isn't about a grudge - it's about wanting the team to be the Champions again, and not having faith in a guy who values Dougie Hamilton and Griffin Reinhart almost the same.

How can you with any kind of credibility sit there and say he's done little to improve the team? When he came in, the team had no goalie, no defense and had such little talent they couldn't even ice a full team of NHLers.

He made a "good deal" for a goalie. How about an amazing deal for a top 5 goalie and he gave up NOTHING. Woodguy was on a radio show this week and said based on the numbers and you should appreciate numbers, the only guy who has better numbers than Talbot is Carey Price. Talbot has the second best numbers out of ALL the goalies in the league over the last 2-3 seasons and he gave up NOTHING to get him.

He traded for a 27 goal scorer for NOTHING and got the team to actually retain salary.

He traded an AHL goalie who's not even good enough to be in the AHL anymore and got a useful bottom 6 guy in Kassian.

He traded for Gryba who maybe you don't like him but he IS an NHLer for Marincin who's NOT an NHLer. When you only play 25 games the previous year and find yourself in the minors this season and you are 25 pushing 26, guess what, you are not an NHLer.

He's signed Sekera, Benning, Lucic, Caggulia, Russell, Letestu.

Every one of those players is usually on the ice every single night. The one one exception when the entire defense is healthy is Gryba. In a game there are 12 fowards, 6 defense and 2 goalies. That is 20 guys. If you count up the guys I listed above that Chia directly signed or traded for there are 10. That's 50% of the game day roster. That doesn't include the players he's drafted in the recent years.

Now maybe you don't necessarily agree with all the players or how they are utilized but to say he hasn't had an impact on improving the team is a flat out lie when 50% of the roster that got them 103 pts last year were his guys. The Oilers aren't getting 103 pts or even making the playoffs if all he did was draft McDavid then sit back and do NOTHING with the roster that allowed the Oilers to be as lousy as they were and win the McDavid lottery.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701021 is a reply to message #701020 ]
Fri, 27 October 2017 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
Messages: 17994
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 13:53

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 12:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 11:54

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 October 2017 10:16

Reinhart on waivers too.

Can be acquired without giving up a first and a second round pick this time!!!


You strike me as a guy that holds on to a grudge for pretty much forever I take it. No one knew Vegas was coming into the league or how expansion would work but regardless it was a bad trade, it didn't work out. Name me a GM that hasn't made a bad move?


I don't hold grudges forever. I do however expect a lot of the GM of my hockey team. I believe that he should have a singular focus on winning Stanley Cups, and when you have just drafted a generational player, that should look at right now.

I believe that he has not done a very good job at improving the team in the two and a half years since he has been hired. He inherited a team with a great deal of skill and speed, although some inexperience. He's benefited by having the best player in the game and a couple nice complimentary pieces that he didn't add.

He made a good deal for a goalie, and a couple decent deals for wingers in Maroon and Kassian. It's worth noting that Sather has seemed to always have a soft spot for Edmonton in trades - remember the Petr Nedved sweetheart deal?

He's made several mistakes in free agency, and handed out long-term, high-dollar contracts. That includes handing out no-move clauses like Halloween candy.

He's made two high profile trades, and lost badly on both. And the only time in two and a half years that he gambled any future assets, he traded high value assets for a guy who wasn't tracking particularly well based on his draft pedigree.

Consider this - Griffin Reinhart, the 4th overall pick in the 2012 draft, who at the time had 8 NHL games to his name cost us the 16th and 33rd overall picks in the 2015 draft. Nail Yakupov, the 1st overall pick in the same draft, who at the time of his trade had 252 NHL games and 111 NHL points, got us an expiring contract for a dead-end prospect and a third round pick.

I keep going back to the Behind the B video - you see it all there in how he handled the Seguin deal. The panicky response to things not going his way, the negotiation that's entirely based around just saying who you're thinking of giving up, without much thought in to the ask, the terrible return in a trade.

I don't believe that there's a great negotiator behind the desk of the Edmonton Oilers. I think it's a massive weakness, and that other GMs realize and exploit that. It's embarrassing that the organization has been taken to the woodshed TWICE by back-up goalie general manager Garth Snow.

And that's a massive issue if you want to see the Oilers win Stanley Cups - which I believe you want just as much as I do. If you have someone who's not capable of negotiating effectively trying to make trades and sign free agents, what you're going to see is a constant erosion on this team. It's going to impact our ability to win, even with the best player in the world on the roster.

This isn't about a grudge - it's about wanting the team to be the Champions again, and not having faith in a guy who values Dougie Hamilton and Griffin Reinhart almost the same.

How can you with any kind of credibility sit there and say he's done little to improve the team? When he came in, the team had no goalie, no defense and had such little talent they couldn't even ice a full team of NHLers.

He made a "good deal" for a goalie. How about an amazing deal for a top 5 goalie and he gave up NOTHING. Woodguy was on a radio show this week and said based on the numbers and you should appreciate numbers, the only guy who has better numbers than Talbot is Carey Price. Talbot has the second best numbers out of ALL the goalies in the league over the last 2-3 seasons and he gave up NOTHING to get him.

He traded for a 27 goal scorer for NOTHING and got the team to actually retain salary.

He traded an AHL goalie who's not even good enough to be in the AHL anymore and got a useful bottom 6 guy in Kassian.

He traded for Gryba who maybe you don't like him but he IS an NHLer for Marincin who's NOT an NHLer. When you only play 25 games the previous year and find yourself in the minors this season and you are 25 pushing 26, guess what, you are not an NHLer.

He's signed Sekera, Benning, Lucic, Caggulia, Russell, Letestu.

Every one of those players is usually on the ice every single night. The one one exception when the entire defense is healthy is Gryba. In a game there are 12 fowards, 6 defense and 2 goalies. That is 20 guys. If you count up the guys I listed above that Chia directly signed or traded for there are 10. That's 50% of the game day roster. That doesn't include the players he's drafted in the recent years.

Now maybe you don't necessarily agree with all the players or how they are utilized but to say he hasn't had an impact on improving the team is a flat out lie when 50% of the roster that got them 103 pts last year were his guys. The Oilers aren't getting 103 pts or even making the playoffs if all he did was draft McDavid then sit back and do NOTHING with the roster that allowed the Oilers to be as lousy as they were and win the McDavid lottery.


I agree. He changed the make-up of the team.

However, I don't think we are nearly as close to a Cup Championship as we should be at this point. He made several moves. I think the number of bad moves has been too high, and I think the team looks slower than ever right now.

The defence still doesn't look good, and while we had two potential offensive threats from the blueline when he started - we now have just one and he has just 2 assists in 9 games this year. And year over year, I think this year's team is worse than last year's (which, by the way, wasn't good enough).

I think he's a better GM than MacTavish, but that's not high praise. This team is lagging behind the pace it should be setting, and relying almost entirely on 2-3 players to provide the improvement.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #701225 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Mon, 30 October 2017 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Vegas gets a nice roster upgrade. Finally able to call up Theodore after kinda fixing their disaster situation with their D. Will they go undefeated the rest of the season now? I don't see how they could get any better.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703827 is a reply to message #701225 ]
Mon, 27 November 2017 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Can someone explain to me why the Knights are in first place right now? I don't understand how that team is 15-6-1. They're an awful hockey team run by a general manager who actively sabotaged them during the expansion / entry draft, right? I can't look at their roster and think "division leaders" so explain how this is happening. I'm open to all theories.


East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703828 is a reply to message #703827 ]
Mon, 27 November 2017 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 09:28

Can someone explain to me why the Knights are in first place right now? I don't understand how that team is 15-6-1. They're an awful hockey team run by a general manager who actively sabotaged them during the expansion / entry draft, right? I can't look at their roster and think "division leaders" so explain how this is happening. I'm open to all theories.


haha, I saw someone on Twitter that said the VGK basically prove that none of us, including NHL front offices, know anything about hockey. That's what I'm going with.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 November 2017 11:01]


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703831 is a reply to message #703827 ]
Mon, 27 November 2017 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 10:28

Can someone explain to me why the Knights are in first place right now? I don't understand how that team is 15-6-1. They're an awful hockey team run by a general manager who actively sabotaged them during the expansion / entry draft, right? I can't look at their roster and think "division leaders" so explain how this is happening. I'm open to all theories.

I am just as baffled as you are. I am a believer that emotion plays a ton in hockey. So early on you had a bunch of guys with chips on their shoulders because they were left exposed to expansion. These guys are pros and have ego's, it would sting a tiny bit to have your team say you are expendable. So I am sure they wanted to prove something. Neal as an example was red hot early on. It had to sting big time to be left exposed by the Preds when you helped get them to the Cup finals just a few months prior. I also think the shootings probably gave them an extra shot. If you go into a corner for a puck battle and it's basically a saw off between players, its's probably coming down to who wants it more. Early on they rode Fleury. He himself is good enough to win you games but they haven't had him for long. Their first 2 games were 2-1 victories. I think their schedule has been pretty good. They have played and beat Arizona 3 times already, twice in their first week. Arizona is beyond bad. They played Buffalo once in Oct which is a bad team. They beat the Avs in Oct who were a brutal team last year. They beat Vancouver who were expected to be a bad team.

But I have to think that part of it is teams are still taking these guys for granted. Which is shocking to me. Legace is not an NHL goalie, he didn't even have good AHL stats. He played 12 games and won 5 games. The Oilers for most of the year have been lousy and they destroyed Vegas 8-2 primarily because Legace is not an NHL goalie. How on earth other teams let Legace beat them 5 times is mind boggling. Full marks to Vegas for doing what they are doing. They earned it. But like Goose said, they are apparently proving that none of us including a lot of hockey people who get big money to know the game of hockey, don't have a clue at times.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703851 is a reply to message #703831 ]
Mon, 27 November 2017 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clutchlikeeberle  is currently offline clutchlikeeberle
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Another interesting stat they are 9-1 at home. In other words; visiting teams have won once!

I think they are taking them for granted and enjoying Vegas life for a night.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703854 is a reply to message #703851 ]
Mon, 27 November 2017 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 13:41

Another interesting stat they are 9-1 at home. In other words; visiting teams have won once!

I think they are taking them for granted and enjoying Vegas life for a night.

9-1 at home, you say? Let's take a look at this because you may be on to something...

Vegas homes games with the opponent's previous game location and rest days.

Score Date Opponent
5-2 Win Oct 10 Arizona @Ari 3-days
3-6 Los Oct 13 Detroit @Ari 0-day
5-1 Win Oct 15 Boston @Ari 0-day
5-4 Win Oct 17 Buffalo @Ana 1-day
3-2 Win Oct 21 St.Louis @Col 1-day
4-2 Win Oct 24 Chicago @Ari 2-days
7-0 Win Oct 27 Colorado @Col 2-days
5-2 Win Nov 10 Winnipeg @Dal 3-days
4-2 Win Nov 19 LosAngel @LAK 0-day
5-4 Win Nov 24 SanJose @Ari 1-days


What does it all mean? I have no idea. They're an awful team that shouldn't be winning. My best guess is your best guess, the first road trip to Vegas is being enjoyed a little too much by the opponent.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703878 is a reply to message #703854 ]
Mon, 27 November 2017 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 13:05

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 13:41

Another interesting stat they are 9-1 at home. In other words; visiting teams have won once!

I think they are taking them for granted and enjoying Vegas life for a night.

9-1 at home, you say? Let's take a look at this because you may be on to something...

Vegas homes games with the opponent's previous game location and rest days.

Score Date Opponent
5-2 Win Oct 10 Arizona @Ari 3-days
3-6 Los Oct 13 Detroit @Ari 0-day
5-1 Win Oct 15 Boston @Ari 0-day
5-4 Win Oct 17 Buffalo @Ana 1-day
3-2 Win Oct 21 St.Louis @Col 1-day
4-2 Win Oct 24 Chicago @Ari 2-days
7-0 Win Oct 27 Colorado @Col 2-days
5-2 Win Nov 10 Winnipeg @Dal 3-days
4-2 Win Nov 19 LosAngel @LAK 0-day
5-4 Win Nov 24 SanJose @Ari 1-days


What does it all mean? I have no idea. They're an awful team that shouldn't be winning. My best guess is your best guess, the first road trip to Vegas is being enjoyed a little too much by the opponent.


Home town advantage! VGK's send some girls over, visiting team's legs turn to rubber. Wonder what Colorado was doing for 2 days to get a 7-0 loss!



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703883 is a reply to message #703831 ]
Mon, 27 November 2017 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 10:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 10:28

Can someone explain to me why the Knights are in first place right now? I don't understand how that team is 15-6-1. They're an awful hockey team run by a general manager who actively sabotaged them during the expansion / entry draft, right? I can't look at their roster and think "division leaders" so explain how this is happening. I'm open to all theories.

I am just as baffled as you are. I am a believer that emotion plays a ton in hockey. So early on you had a bunch of guys with chips on their shoulders because they were left exposed to expansion. These guys are pros and have ego's, it would sting a tiny bit to have your team say you are expendable. So I am sure they wanted to prove something. Neal as an example was red hot early on. It had to sting big time to be left exposed by the Preds when you helped get them to the Cup finals just a few months prior. I also think the shootings probably gave them an extra shot. If you go into a corner for a puck battle and it's basically a saw off between players, its's probably coming down to who wants it more. Early on they rode Fleury. He himself is good enough to win you games but they haven't had him for long. Their first 2 games were 2-1 victories. I think their schedule has been pretty good. They have played and beat Arizona 3 times already, twice in their first week. Arizona is beyond bad. They played Buffalo once in Oct which is a bad team. They beat the Avs in Oct who were a brutal team last year. They beat Vancouver who were expected to be a bad team.

But I have to think that part of it is teams are still taking these guys for granted. Which is shocking to me. Legace is not an NHL goalie, he didn't even have good AHL stats. He played 12 games and won 5 games. The Oilers for most of the year have been lousy and they destroyed Vegas 8-2 primarily because Legace is not an NHL goalie. How on earth other teams let Legace beat them 5 times is mind boggling. Full marks to Vegas for doing what they are doing. They earned it. But like Goose said, they are apparently proving that none of us including a lot of hockey people who get big money to know the game of hockey, don't have a clue at times.


They're not even really getting outplayed anymore. It's pretty remarkable. Start of the year they were getting dominated and goalies were doing backflips. As the year went on, and their goalies got picked off, the skaters kept playing better to make up for it, and they are just sticking around in every game and deserving a lot of their wins.

The skill guys they have, they are getting every ounce out of them they possibly can. Team works its butt off every night. Maybe they do finally hit a lull and start getting spent from going so hard every night, but, pretty darn impressive so far regardless.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703900 is a reply to message #703883 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 21:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 10:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 10:28

Can someone explain to me why the Knights are in first place right now? I don't understand how that team is 15-6-1. They're an awful hockey team run by a general manager who actively sabotaged them during the expansion / entry draft, right? I can't look at their roster and think "division leaders" so explain how this is happening. I'm open to all theories.

I am just as baffled as you are. I am a believer that emotion plays a ton in hockey. So early on you had a bunch of guys with chips on their shoulders because they were left exposed to expansion. These guys are pros and have ego's, it would sting a tiny bit to have your team say you are expendable. So I am sure they wanted to prove something. Neal as an example was red hot early on. It had to sting big time to be left exposed by the Preds when you helped get them to the Cup finals just a few months prior. I also think the shootings probably gave them an extra shot. If you go into a corner for a puck battle and it's basically a saw off between players, its's probably coming down to who wants it more. Early on they rode Fleury. He himself is good enough to win you games but they haven't had him for long. Their first 2 games were 2-1 victories. I think their schedule has been pretty good. They have played and beat Arizona 3 times already, twice in their first week. Arizona is beyond bad. They played Buffalo once in Oct which is a bad team. They beat the Avs in Oct who were a brutal team last year. They beat Vancouver who were expected to be a bad team.

But I have to think that part of it is teams are still taking these guys for granted. Which is shocking to me. Legace is not an NHL goalie, he didn't even have good AHL stats. He played 12 games and won 5 games. The Oilers for most of the year have been lousy and they destroyed Vegas 8-2 primarily because Legace is not an NHL goalie. How on earth other teams let Legace beat them 5 times is mind boggling. Full marks to Vegas for doing what they are doing. They earned it. But like Goose said, they are apparently proving that none of us including a lot of hockey people who get big money to know the game of hockey, don't have a clue at times.


They're not even really getting outplayed anymore. It's pretty remarkable. Start of the year they were getting dominated and goalies were doing backflips. As the year went on, and their goalies got picked off, the skaters kept playing better to make up for it, and they are just sticking around in every game and deserving a lot of their wins.

The skill guys they have, they are getting every ounce out of them they possibly can. Team works its butt off every night. Maybe they do finally hit a lull and start getting spent from going so hard every night, but, pretty darn impressive so far regardless.


One thing that Vegas is showing people and more specifically Oilers fans. For every person who says that the Oilers are losing because they don't have enough talent, explain to me the Knights. Most of their roster is made up of 3rd and 4th liners on most teams, yet they keep winning. Goes to show that if you go out there and play hard every night, you have a legit chance to win most nights.

[Updated on: Tue, 28 November 2017 08:16]


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #703904 is a reply to message #703900 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
messier11  is currently offline messier11
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 09:14

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 21:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 10:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 27 November 2017 10:28

Can someone explain to me why the Knights are in first place right now? I don't understand how that team is 15-6-1. They're an awful hockey team run by a general manager who actively sabotaged them during the expansion / entry draft, right? I can't look at their roster and think "division leaders" so explain how this is happening. I'm open to all theories.

I am just as baffled as you are. I am a believer that emotion plays a ton in hockey. So early on you had a bunch of guys with chips on their shoulders because they were left exposed to expansion. These guys are pros and have ego's, it would sting a tiny bit to have your team say you are expendable. So I am sure they wanted to prove something. Neal as an example was red hot early on. It had to sting big time to be left exposed by the Preds when you helped get them to the Cup finals just a few months prior. I also think the shootings probably gave them an extra shot. If you go into a corner for a puck battle and it's basically a saw off between players, its's probably coming down to who wants it more. Early on they rode Fleury. He himself is good enough to win you games but they haven't had him for long. Their first 2 games were 2-1 victories. I think their schedule has been pretty good. They have played and beat Arizona 3 times already, twice in their first week. Arizona is beyond bad. They played Buffalo once in Oct which is a bad team. They beat the Avs in Oct who were a brutal team last year. They beat Vancouver who were expected to be a bad team.

But I have to think that part of it is teams are still taking these guys for granted. Which is shocking to me. Legace is not an NHL goalie, he didn't even have good AHL stats. He played 12 games and won 5 games. The Oilers for most of the year have been lousy and they destroyed Vegas 8-2 primarily because Legace is not an NHL goalie. How on earth other teams let Legace beat them 5 times is mind boggling. Full marks to Vegas for doing what they are doing. They earned it. But like Goose said, they are apparently proving that none of us including a lot of hockey people who get big money to know the game of hockey, don't have a clue at times.


They're not even really getting outplayed anymore. It's pretty remarkable. Start of the year they were getting dominated and goalies were doing backflips. As the year went on, and their goalies got picked off, the skaters kept playing better to make up for it, and they are just sticking around in every game and deserving a lot of their wins.

The skill guys they have, they are getting every ounce out of them they possibly can. Team works its butt off every night. Maybe they do finally hit a lull and start getting spent from going so hard every night, but, pretty darn impressive so far regardless.


One thing that Vegas is showing people and more specifically Oilers fans. For every person who says that the Oilers are losing because they don't have enough talent, explain to me the Knights. Most of their roster is made up of 3rd and 4th liners on most teams, yet they keep winning. Goes to show that if you go out there and play hard every night, you have a legit chance to win most nights.


I have always thought that the 3rd/4th liners are the players who are in the League because they really, really want to be...the "heart" guys.

Every year we talk about how some Fernando Pisani-type guy has been the key to a team's playoff success but no one has ever tried to fill a team with those kind of guys..............until now....................



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #704806 is a reply to message #703904 ]
Wed, 06 December 2017 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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...interesting little bit of trivia per Jason Gregor at Oilers Nation...

https://oilersnation.com/2017/12/06/game-day-quick-hits-oile rs-vs-flyers/

....."9. Odd stat of the day: The Vegas Golden Knights played their 10th game versus a Pacific Division opponent last night. They are 9-1 versus the Pacific and their only loss was 8-2 in Edmonton. In their other nine games they’ve outscored their Pacific opponents 35-20. They have defeated Arizona four times, outscoring them 14-7, but they’ve also defeated Anaheim twice, and Los Angeles, San Jose and Vancouver once each."....




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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706063 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Fri, 29 December 2017 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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6 wins in a row, beating: Pittsburgh, Florida, Tampa, and Washington at home and then going on the road to beat Anaheim and LA on back-to-back nights.

10-0-1 in their last 11.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706065 is a reply to message #706063 ]
Fri, 29 December 2017 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Goose wrote on Fri, 29 December 2017 10:06

6 wins in a row, beating: Pittsburgh, Florida, Tampa, and Washington at home and then going on the road to beat Anaheim and LA on back-to-back nights.

10-0-1 in their last 11.

Of all the things I've read (or written) on this site, this one is the craziest. None of what's happening down there makes any sense. They're 3 points up on the entire West with games in hand over almost everyone. Nonsense!



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706069 is a reply to message #706065 ]
Fri, 29 December 2017 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 29 December 2017 10:19

Goose wrote on Fri, 29 December 2017 10:06

6 wins in a row, beating: Pittsburgh, Florida, Tampa, and Washington at home and then going on the road to beat Anaheim and LA on back-to-back nights.

10-0-1 in their last 11.

Of all the things I've read (or written) on this site, this one is the craziest. None of what's happening down there makes any sense. They're 3 points up on the entire West with games in hand over almost everyone. Nonsense!


Good game plan + effort + little bit of talent = wins in the Bettman parity league I guess.

We fail pretty hard at the game plan and effort pieces. Effort mainly in terms of being ready for games. We need some emotion forced out of us either by facing a rival team or being down in games. Can never just muster it up ourselves, especially against eastern teams there is zero rivalry with.

[Updated on: Fri, 29 December 2017 14:24]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706339 is a reply to message #706069 ]
Tue, 02 January 2018 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfafrog  is currently offline halfafrog
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They always put in an effort. I rarely can say that about the Oilers. They also have a pretty good neutral zone game. But are always aggressive on the puck. I like the Oilers. #1 in takeaways. I guess building a lousy roster doesn’t matter if the players have heart?


So this is what hope feels like?

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706345 is a reply to message #706339 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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halfafrog wrote on Tue, 02 January 2018 22:42

They always put in an effort. I rarely can say that about the Oilers. They also have a pretty good neutral zone game. But are always aggressive on the puck. I like the Oilers. #1 in takeaways. I guess building a lousy roster doesn’t matter if the players have heart?


And they skate well, which relates back to most of what you posted.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706346 is a reply to message #706345 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 09:40

halfafrog wrote on Tue, 02 January 2018 22:42

They always put in an effort. I rarely can say that about the Oilers. They also have a pretty good neutral zone game. But are always aggressive on the puck. I like the Oilers. #1 in takeaways. I guess building a lousy roster doesn’t matter if the players have heart?


And they skate well, which relates back to most of what you posted.


Even our players that skate well can't show it because of how disjointed we play. Vegas has plenty of slugs on their team, especially on the back end. But they actually know how to do things as a unit. Nothing moves faster than the puck and if you are getting open and your teammates know where you should be and you're actually there, you can move that puck up the ice pretty quick.

For whatever reason we could do that last year. This year, maybe teams have just picked our habits apart and we are simply lost without answers or adjustments. Whatever it is, we rarely can make even a few passes going from our end to the offensive end.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706347 is a reply to message #706346 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 09:46

Goose wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 09:40

halfafrog wrote on Tue, 02 January 2018 22:42

They always put in an effort. I rarely can say that about the Oilers. They also have a pretty good neutral zone game. But are always aggressive on the puck. I like the Oilers. #1 in takeaways. I guess building a lousy roster doesn’t matter if the players have heart?


And they skate well, which relates back to most of what you posted.


Even our players that skate well can't show it because of how disjointed we play. Vegas has plenty of slugs on their team, especially on the back end. But they actually know how to do things as a unit. Nothing moves faster than the puck and if you are getting open and your teammates know where you should be and you're actually there, you can move that puck up the ice pretty quick.

For whatever reason we could do that last year. This year, maybe teams have just picked our habits apart and we are simply lost without answers or adjustments. Whatever it is, we rarely can make even a few passes going from our end to the offensive end.


Just to add though, we definitely need some D that can skate and make a pass. Gonna take a long time to get over that Russell deal that shut the door on getting an offensive RHD for a few more years. One nice boost for Vegas that has let them not miss a beat is adding Theodore. Kid is just killing it since he was finally called up, playing almost 20 mins a night now. Just like that, they had a smooth skating good offensive D and they just keep rolling. Still rely heavily on Engeland and Sbisa, but whatever, they play as a team and it works.

Need for specific players aside. Finding it hard to imagine now if it will actually matter for the oilers as long as we have these turds coaching the team.

[Updated on: Wed, 03 January 2018 10:07]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706389 is a reply to message #706347 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

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What Vegas is doing this year should be the death knell for everyone in the Oilers organization. Coaches, GM, and all of management. Top to bottom.

You mean it doesn't take 15 years to put together a decent team and get them to play well?

Would love to see them go on and win the Cup, just because.

Fun fact: If the expansion Vegas Knights win 3 of their next 4 games, they would equal, in only half of a season, the full season totals of the 09-10, 10-11, and the 14-15 Edmonton Oilers. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Updated on: Wed, 03 January 2018 19:55]


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706392 is a reply to message #706389 ]
Wed, 03 January 2018 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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2 Cups

It really is incriminating on all these terrible franchises with years of failure. But it goes to show that hockey is a team sport.

In football, you can ride an MVP QB to the playoffs every year. In basketball, having LeBron on your team virtually guarantees a final appearance. Not so for the team lucky enough to draft Connor McDavid (even joining a team with three previous 1st overalls, Leon Draisaitl, Eberle, and Schultz).

Hockey is a team sport from top to bottom. McDavid guarantees nothing, and the Vegas coaching, management, and players have all pulled their weight. They played their freaking 5th string goalie. No excuses from any of the Coyotes, Panthers, and Oilers of the league. Feel shame.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706404 is a reply to message #706392 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 20:26

It really is incriminating on all these terrible franchises with years of failure. But it goes to show that hockey is a team sport.

In football, you can ride an MVP QB to the playoffs every year. In basketball, having LeBron on your team virtually guarantees a final appearance. Not so for the team lucky enough to draft Connor McDavid (even joining a team with three previous 1st overalls, Leon Draisaitl, Eberle, and Schultz).

Hockey is a team sport from top to bottom. McDavid guarantees nothing, and the Vegas coaching, management, and players have all pulled their weight. They played their freaking 5th string goalie. No excuses from any of the Coyotes, Panthers, and Oilers of the league. Feel shame.


I'm not giving them a hallpass, but considering the ownership struggles that Phoenix and Carolina have experienced, Edmonton is truly the poster child for extremely poorly managed teams. Has any other team been gifted so many opportunities (introduction of salary cap, new owner with $$$ to spend to the cap, multiple first overalls, CONNOR FREAKING MCDAVID, etc) and had so little (or complete absence) of success?

And what can we, as fans, do about it?



CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706405 is a reply to message #706404 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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bigEfromGP wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 08:08

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 20:26

It really is incriminating on all these terrible franchises with years of failure. But it goes to show that hockey is a team sport.

In football, you can ride an MVP QB to the playoffs every year. In basketball, having LeBron on your team virtually guarantees a final appearance. Not so for the team lucky enough to draft Connor McDavid (even joining a team with three previous 1st overalls, Leon Draisaitl, Eberle, and Schultz).

Hockey is a team sport from top to bottom. McDavid guarantees nothing, and the Vegas coaching, management, and players have all pulled their weight. They played their freaking 5th string goalie. No excuses from any of the Coyotes, Panthers, and Oilers of the league. Feel shame.


I'm not giving them a hallpass, but considering the ownership struggles that Phoenix and Carolina have experienced, Edmonton is truly the poster child for extremely poorly managed teams. Has any other team been gifted so many opportunities (introduction of salary cap, new owner with $$$ to spend to the cap, multiple first overalls, CONNOR FREAKING MCDAVID, etc) and had so little (or complete absence) of success?

And what can we, as fans, do about it?

Stop. Giving. Them. Money.




East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706574 is a reply to message #706405 ]
Sat, 06 January 2018 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
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Location: E-Town

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 07:16

bigEfromGP wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 08:08

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 03 January 2018 20:26

It really is incriminating on all these terrible franchises with years of failure. But it goes to show that hockey is a team sport.

In football, you can ride an MVP QB to the playoffs every year. In basketball, having LeBron on your team virtually guarantees a final appearance. Not so for the team lucky enough to draft Connor McDavid (even joining a team with three previous 1st overalls, Leon Draisaitl, Eberle, and Schultz).

Hockey is a team sport from top to bottom. McDavid guarantees nothing, and the Vegas coaching, management, and players have all pulled their weight. They played their freaking 5th string goalie. No excuses from any of the Coyotes, Panthers, and Oilers of the league. Feel shame.


I'm not giving them a hallpass, but considering the ownership struggles that Phoenix and Carolina have experienced, Edmonton is truly the poster child for extremely poorly managed teams. Has any other team been gifted so many opportunities (introduction of salary cap, new owner with $$$ to spend to the cap, multiple first overalls, CONNOR FREAKING MCDAVID, etc) and had so little (or complete absence) of success?

And what can we, as fans, do about it?



In our society, the only vote that matters is what you spend your money on. If you plunk a dollar down for anything the message is "I'm ok with this, I would like more of this". It will be a very very cold day in hell if this were to happen to the Oilers in Edmonton I'm afraid. I don't buy anything that goes back to Katz. I stream games. I did go to the last ducks game as a colleague gifted me tickets. Didn't even buy a popcorn. I do however, still support the team non-monetarily. Like, I cheer for them and can't take my eyes off any McDavid highlights.





Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706720 is a reply to message #706574 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I will be interested to see what Vegas does next year. When they built their team, I didn't know what they were doing. I thought they let some teams off the hook. They made trades to layoff guys and took guys I wouldn't touch. They let teams off the hook cap wise by taking on contracts like Clarkson, Grabovski, Stoner (all LTIR), Garrison who's in the minors. I didn't understand why you would do rival teams any favors by taking back garbage contracts unless the return was significant which I didn't think was the case. They picked a bunch of UFA's i.e Neal, Perron, Marchessault at forward though I see they resigned Marchessault to a big contract. They have a few UFA's on defense who are big time contributors.

What they have done is pretty incredible in my opinion. If you are trying to build a fan base, being as good as they are especially at home, is exactly what you want. I am sure the management and owner are in a bit of shock as I doubt they saw this coming. I personally think part of the reason is thanks to Florida being stupid, they lucked into getting a really good coach. They have a good system and the team plays hard. BUT I think part of the reason they are good is the team is riding a wave. I think the shootings right before the season gave them a rally cry. I think there are a ton of guys playing with chips on their shoulders. As a pro, you are going to have an ego so to have a team decide they don't want you and be OK to let you go for nothing in the expansion draft, would be a big shot to my ego. So I would probably play with a "screw you" attitude a bit. Some of the UFA's will be playing for new contracts. I also think that part of the reason they are SO good as home is Vegas the City. It's freaking Vegas!! I get fired up every time I go and I am not a millionare athlete. Every time a team goes into Vegas for the first time, how many guys are maybe slightly distracted by being in Vegas the City maybe thinking just a little bit about the club you are going to after the game or the casino? How many young guys on every team maybe haven't been to Vegas before? How many weren't 21 to truly "enjoy" all of Vegas. I hear played over and over again on 1260 about the Oilers first game in Vegas and it being "McDavid's 21st b-day." I know when I turned 21 and could legally go to the bar in the US even though I have been going to the bar for years in Canada it was a big deal to me. The first time I could gamble in Vegas being 21, was a pretty big deal to me. I can't imagine would it would be like if money wasn't really a problem like it is with these guys.

So I will be curious to see what happens to them next year. The honeymoon will be over. The chip on your shoulder that some guys are probably playing with this season will be gone because it's been a year now and you had success. You won't have that rally cry of the shootings to galvanize you at the start of the year. I have my doubts that all of their UFA's will be back so won't have some guys playing for contracts. There will be new guys on the team so the mix will be different. The novelty and excitement of playing in Vegas for the first time or 2 will be gone next season. I love Vegas, I love going to Vegas, I have been to Vegas lots but as excited I get when I go now, it pales compared to that first time. Plus the expectations of the fans will be sky high because all the fans have seen since opening night was their team win most of the games. What happens when the team takes a step back?



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706741 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
Messages: 1881
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

1 Cup

I think a big factor that doesn't get much love is the Vegas home crowd. I watched a game last month where the Lightning were in town and it felt as loud as Edmonton in the playoffs last April. The 3rd and 4th liners were flying and just finishing every check, going hard after the opposing defenders. They were against the NHL's best team and scored 2 goals late in the 3rd to win in regulation, the winning goal with 3 seconds to go. Just watching the way the crowd was in it you knew Vegas was going to come back and win.




"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706749 is a reply to message #706741 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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WhoreableGuy wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:25

I think a big factor that doesn't get much love is the Vegas home crowd. I watched a game last month where the Lightning were in town and it felt as loud as Edmonton in the playoffs last April. The 3rd and 4th liners were flying and just finishing every check, going hard after the opposing defenders. They were against the NHL's best team and scored 2 goals late in the 3rd to win in regulation, the winning goal with 3 seconds to go. Just watching the way the crowd was in it you knew Vegas was going to come back and win.




I agree. Vegas is in the honeymoon stage. They are the new show in town, it's currently the place to be and they are winning. So the fans will be pumped. It will be interesting to see what happens if Vegas steps back a little which I think happens next year and all of a sudden they aren't winning as much.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706753 is a reply to message #706749 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfafrog  is currently offline halfafrog
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I went to a game at the Honda Center over Christmas (vs VGK). There were a surprising number of Vegas fans there. The ones I sat next to were season ticket holders and told me the games in Vegas are the hot ticket in town right now (no surprise). Sorta kicking myself as I was in Vegas twice in November and though I got to their practice facility (beautiful state of the art in the Summerlin part of Vegas) didn't make it to the T mobile arena. It was nice to see the Ducks lose at home though. Have to say that ..


So this is what hope feels like?

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706770 is a reply to message #706753 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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When the NFL comes to Vegas which isn't far away, I will be curious to see what kind of dent it takes in the fan base. People only have so much disposable income.


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706771 is a reply to message #706770 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Good question. Only what, eight home games a year for an NFL team though. maybe room for both.


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706775 is a reply to message #706770 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 16:19

When the NFL comes to Vegas which isn't far away, I will be curious to see what kind of dent it takes in the fan base. People only have so much disposable income.


Being the new thing in town may wear off but adding the NFL wont change a thing. There are literally thousands of shows, events, concerts, sporting events, etc in Vegas, many on a daily basis. Adding 8 NFL games will have very little to zero effect on the Knights attendance.




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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706782 is a reply to message #706775 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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I disagree. The NFL will certainly be tough competition for the Golden Knights. NFL vs NHL is not even a close fight in America. I think companies will be much more excited to splurge on Vegas Raiders (?) season tickets over hockey once both are on the table.

It may be only eight Vegas football home games, but that is 65000-70000 per game.

8 x 65000 = 520 000 tickets for NFL games
41 x 17500 = 717 500 tickets for NHL games

These numbers are a lot closer than 8 vs 41 home games. 520 000 new sports tickets will definitely interfere with the market.





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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706785 is a reply to message #706782 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 02:03

I disagree. The NFL will certainly be tough competition for the Golden Knights. NFL vs NHL is not even a close fight in America. I think companies will be much more excited to splurge on Vegas Raiders (?) season tickets over hockey once both are on the table.

It may be only eight Vegas football home games, but that is 65000-70000 per game.

8 x 65000 = 520 000 tickets for NFL games
41 x 17500 = 717 500 tickets for NHL games

These numbers are a lot closer than 8 vs 41 home games. 520 000 new sports tickets will definitely interfere with the market.





My comment on number of games wasnt about tickets to sell. It was about head to head competition and how it wont matter.
In Vegas there are thousands of options of things to do 24 hours a day. I was one that thought the Knights would have trouble competing for attention in general and have been surprised by more than their play on the ice. They have done a great job promoting the team and people are coming to watch.
Do you not think the NHL considered the NFL coming to town?
They compete with the NFL in cities all around the States, why would it be that big of a deal in Vegas where yes, there is more competition, but there is also a comparative increase in entertainment spending, with millions of new dollars being flown in all day, every day.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #706811 is a reply to message #706785 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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That there are thousands of shows to go see does not provide as much competition for the Golden Knights. Concerts and magic shows are for tourists, not locals. Sports teams need local money to keep it going. That comes from season tickets sales, many of which come from local businesses.

I am sure the NHL considered that the NFL would be there, but it's naive to think that it "won't change a thing". There isn't unlimited money in Vegas, and there now will be direct competition for the Golden Knights. We are wondering if there will be a dent in ticket sales, surely 520 000 NFL tickets available is something to worry about for the Golden Knights.




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