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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696441 is a reply to message #696433 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 09:04

In the days leading up to the Russell contract and then after it was signed, it's been divided. There are those who hate it and those you love it. I fall in the middle. I think the contract is a bit too long. My preference was 2 years, 3 if you had too, I didn't want 4. I was hoping for a cap hit that started with a 3 but its at an even 4. I am confident in saying that on the open market, Russell easily gets over 4 mill and at least 4 years. So I don't think they overpaid but they didn't get a discount which I had hoped for.

But for the people that hate Russell, they are pissed. I have read a ton about all the things he can't do. I have read a ton about all the certain numbers that say he's not good. The Oilers were a 103 pts team, went to game 7 in the Western Semi's, a series they kind of got screwed out of but they did that with Russell - who to some is a borderline NHLer - playing in their top 4 and playing a significant role. I have seen some people up in arms that the Oilers aren't trying to dramatically upgrade their defense.

So my question is, Russell played a significant role on the Oilers and they had a 103pt season. If he is so bad, how did that happen? How can you get that many points having a guy play that many mins for your team if he is as bad as some people say? Did the Oilers improve thanks to McDavid? Yes but he isn't the sole reason. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't play the whole game. Did the Oilers improve because Talbot was good? Yes but without at least a competent defense, I don't care how good your goalie is, he can only do so much. SO what was it. Are we talking fluke, act of god, what is it?


I've laid out my beliefs on why the team improved last year. A) Best player in the game in Connor McDavid. B) Very good goaltending from Talbot, who played in 20 more games than year before. C) Top 6 forwards and top 3 defence miss a grand total of 6 games due to injury.

As for why Russell doesn't cost us more last year, part of that comes down to Talbot too. Russell's on-ice save percentage was abnormally high. While overall, Talbot's save percentage was .918, when Russell was on the ice last year, it was .938. There will be those who try to interpret that as evidence that he's doing something to make it easier for his goalie to save the puck, but if that was the case, then he should see a similar phenomenon every year. (Hint: he doesn't). On-ice save percentage, like shooting percentage, fluctuates and outlying numbers tend to regress to the norm.

This article was dismissed angrily by some of Edmonton's mainstream media, but Matt Henderson is providing statistical evidence to back up why Russell isn't good. Basically it comes down to this - when he's on the ice, the Oilers spend more time in their own zone, shoot less and get shot on more.

https://oilersnation.com/2017/06/15/signing-kris-russell-wou ld-be-a-horrible-mistake/

Now, I've seen the argument you've made here about the 103 point season again and again both here and on twitter and even from media guys who should know better. The problem is, that the Oilers should have expected that kind of bounce last year. They have a healthy generational player on their team - that's what happens with players like that.

They should now be looking to capture a championship. That should be the stated goal for this year. Any year in the next ten that they don't win is a missed opportunity. So given that, the management should be looking at this as a season that fell short and be analyzing what they need to make the next step. They can't pat themselves on the back, and they can't be complacent.

It was clear in the playoffs that the Sharks and Ducks had a better defence and a better break-out than the Oilers did. Puck-moving from the defence of those two teams was very good, and they weren't even class of the conference. To me, it was clearly an area that looked in need of an upgrade even before Sekera went down. Now, with #2 out until Christmas, there's a giant hole. We've addressed it by re-signing Kris Russell and indicating interest in bringing back Gryba too. You have to hope there's something more coming there, because it's just not enough yet.

Add to that getting worse at right wing, and you've got a 103 point team that looks objectively worse on June 26th than it did at the end of the season. Does that give you comfort we're going to challenge for the Cup next year?



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696449 is a reply to message #696441 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerfan79  is currently offline oilerfan79
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So stating that playoff success is really all that matters and knowing that players will continue to develop or at least we hope they will continue. You can't really still think that a certain player making 6 million per year that was outscored by every other winger on the team in the only real games to matter this season being traded was a bad idea.
Russel will play in the top 4 this year but if he happens to get bumped out of the top 4 by the development of Nurse or Benning or even better both is that the worst thing to happen? He may not be in my or your ideal top 4 but he is a legitimate NHL d-man. Is it so terrible to overpay a bit for some stability? Sekera is out till January either Russel plays there or Nurse takes his job making Russel a pretty damn good #5. We aren't breaking the bank in terms of d-man contracts with both Klef and Larsson on very good deals for quite a while, we have room for a higher paid #5 if that's where he ends up playing. But having a #5 that you know can play #4 if needed means a lot and it makes for competition for spots which we haven't had in far too long.
I believe Chia is still going to sign a RH d for the coming year so he doesn't have to depend on Benning's continued development. But also signing Gryba who played the 7th role admirably and I believe will do that again this year is not a bad idea. It's better to have him sit in the press box than one of your kids.
These deals are all about stability and not thrusting players into roles they are not ready for. We did that for 10 years it didn't work out very well.
And with the trade of Eberle for Strome, Russel really only cost 500K this year. If things don't work out they can trade him or bury him in the minors, but with his determination and heart I can't see that being the case.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696451 is a reply to message #696449 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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oilerfan79 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 10:03

So stating that playoff success is really all that matters and knowing that players will continue to develop or at least we hope they will continue. You can't really still think that a certain player making 6 million per year that was outscored by every other winger on the team in the only real games to matter this season being traded was a bad idea.
Russel will play in the top 4 this year but if he happens to get bumped out of the top 4 by the development of Nurse or Benning or even better both is that the worst thing to happen? He may not be in my or your ideal top 4 but he is a legitimate NHL d-man. Is it so terrible to overpay a bit for some stability? Sekera is out till January either Russel plays there or Nurse takes his job making Russel a pretty damn good #5. We aren't breaking the bank in terms of d-man contracts with both Klef and Larsson on very good deals for quite a while, we have room for a higher paid #5 if that's where he ends up playing. But having a #5 that you know can play #4 if needed means a lot and it makes for competition for spots which we haven't had in far too long.
I believe Chia is still going to sign a RH d for the coming year so he doesn't have to depend on Benning's continued development. But also signing Gryba who played the 7th role admirably and I believe will do that again this year is not a bad idea. It's better to have him sit in the press box than one of your kids.
These deals are all about stability and not thrusting players into roles they are not ready for. We did that for 10 years it didn't work out very well.
And with the trade of Eberle for Strome, Russel really only cost 500K this year. If things don't work out they can trade him or bury him in the minors, but with his determination and heart I can't see that being the case.


There's a sample size issue there. Yes, Eberle was unproductive in the playoffs. That sucks, and it didn't help the team.

But we've seen other very good players have poorly-timed slumps too in a playoff season, and then seen them just fine in years after.

We're talking about a player who scores about 0.70 points per game for his entire career, and he was dealt for someone who scores at a much, much lower rate. I could have gotten behind trading Eberle if the return justified it, but trading straight up for a worse player who (mostly) plays the same position? That's not good asset management.

Russell really costs $4MM per season. He only got a $900,000 raise from last year, but his contract has nothing to do with Eberle/Strome. It's still money the Oilers are committed to spending the next four years and it's a really rich deal for what he brings. It's the same money he was looking for last year and couldn't get from any of the 29 other GMs. Surely Brad Werenka can't be selling his mystery math to only Peter Chiarelli, and yet no one else stepped up. I'm not sure if he would have had another offer like that on the open market, and if he did, I think the team should have wished him well.

It's interesting that you note that we shouldn't thrust kids in to roles they aren't ready for...I wonder who our four right wingers will be?



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696452 is a reply to message #696451 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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I think the main reason the Oilers improved so much last year is because they had 5 real NHL quality defencemen and Benning was playing at pretty much that level as well.

They also didn't have any human turnstiles (J. Schultz, Petry, Gilbert) for the first time since 2006. It makes it a lot easier to keep the puck out of the net when guys don't just feebly wave as the opponent flies by.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696455 is a reply to message #696451 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerfan79  is currently offline oilerfan79
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I believe at least one will be Strome, he of the 8 points in 15 playoff games (that includes 3 goals). 0.53PPG in the playoffs or 0.20GPG. To Eberle's 0.15PPG or 0.00GPG. About the same small sample size.

Is it not possible the Islanders are just as bad or worse than the Oilers at developing players to this point? He was a highly touted prospect that had a great year his second in the league then for whatever reason was sent to the minors right away the next season. I would think that screws with your head a bit and can sour you to the organization some. Maybe Chia thinks he can unlock the player, it seems to have worked for Kassian.

Who were we going to get from another team, everyone saw him play badly in the only games to really matter so far in his entire career. How do you know this was not the best deal available for a player who badly needed a change of scenery.

And these deals are 100% related he saved 3.5 million on what he hopes is a lateral move at RW that he then used to help shore up a d group that would badly miss one of it's best player for half a season.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696458 is a reply to message #696455 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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oilerfan79 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 10:35

I believe at least one will be Strome, he of the 8 points in 15 playoff games (that includes 3 goals). 0.53PPG in the playoffs or 0.20GPG. To Eberle's 0.15PPG or 0.00GPG. About the same small sample size.

Is it not possible the Islanders are just as bad or worse than the Oilers at developing players to this point? He was a highly touted prospect that had a great year his second in the league then for whatever reason was sent to the minors right away the next season. I would think that screws with your head a bit and can sour you to the organization some. Maybe Chia thinks he can unlock the player, it seems to have worked for Kassian.

Who were we going to get from another team, everyone saw him play badly in the only games to really matter so far in his entire career. How do you know this was not the best deal available for a player who badly needed a change of scenery.

And these deals are 100% related he saved 3.5 million on what he hopes is a lateral move at RW that he then used to help shore up a d group that would badly miss one of it's best player for half a season.


Hard to suggest that the Islanders are as bad as the Oilers for developing their players. On their team last year the following players were Islanders draft picks who played over 40 games for the team:

Tavares (#1 overall - 2009), Bailey (#9 - 2008), Lee (#152 - 2009), Nelson (#30 - 2010), Strome (#5 - 2011), Cizikas (#92 - 2009), de Haan (#12 - 2009), Beauvilier (#28 - 2015), Hamonic (#53 - 2008), Quine (#166 - 2013), Pelech (#65 in 2012)

The Islanders have done a decent job graduating players to the NHL. Demoting Strome in 2015-16 is odd. It would be interesting to know the backstory there. Did he show up for camp out-of-shape? Here's an article on the demotion:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/islanders-sen d-ryan-strome-down-to-bridgeport-1.11069575

Sounds like he started the season on Tavares' line, but quickly fell out of favour. Clearly they didn't like something about the way he was playing beyond just struggles to score.

[Updated on: Mon, 26 June 2017 10:57]


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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696460 is a reply to message #696455 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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oilerfan79 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 10:35


Who were we going to get from another team, everyone saw him play badly in the only games to really matter so far in his entire career. How do you know this was not the best deal available for a player who badly needed a change of scenery.



My problem is the approach. I think that he's going out calling people and asking what they'll give for Eberle, rather than doing research and determining what they want and then calling to figure out the cost to obtain that. It's a subtlety, but it makes a huge difference.

We saw this with the Seguin deal. He called a GM, told him he was thinking of moving Seguin, asked what the GM would give up. When asked what he wanted, Chiarelli stuttered out a vague list of potential assets that he could take back. That's not a good way to frame a discussion. There's been a lot of talk that the Oilers have been in the weaker negotiating position the last two years with their big trades, but I believe it's the Oilers that are putting themselves there.

They create a feeling of desperation to do a deal. They talk to the local media both on and off the record about what they want to have happen. They indicate to everyone what the plan is, and then they call GMs to see what they can make happen. There seems to be little understanding of the motivations of the GMs on the other side of the table. New Jersey was desperate for offence. The Islanders need to make Tavares feel like they're moving in the right direction. But the Oilers are focussed on their own issues, and they've been manhandled by the other GMs.

Now, I'm not in those rooms, but I deal with negotiation on a regular basis. If the other side senses weakness, or desperation to make a deal? You're going to lose.

Even if the Islanders were the only team at the table, Chiarelli has to approach the negotiations with the willingness to walk away if they aren't offering enough. He can create competitive pressure both with the possibility of someone else making a trade, or the possibility he may not make a trade at all. There's no rush to get this deal done, because you can get a worse right winger straight up for a better right winger almost any time of the year. If Snow's not willing to put more in the deal, then you walk away.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696462 is a reply to message #696460 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerfan79  is currently offline oilerfan79
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I'm not sure you're valuing Eberle correctly though. He's been on the block for over a year, I actually think he's been on the block since Chiarelli took the job.
The book is out on him, he's an average at best skater, not much in the way of defensive responsibility, who's mostly a perimeter player that doesn't sacrifice his body at all to make a play. The only thing he had going for him were his seasonal stats that have been on the decline for 2 years now and his reputation for being a big game player earned or not.
I think Chiarelli took the patient approach and turned down offers in the beginning wanting to see what he could do in the playoffs, and well we all know how that went. So faced with what was a diminished return due to having to take the big game player tag off, I believe he wasn't left with very many offers that weren't just draft picks which do us no good with our win now window. So he could have stuck with Eberle in the hopes that the coach will regain some trust in him, which I doubt McLellan seems to make up his mind and stay there, and hope he turns it around. The hope would be not only does Eberle regain his form from 4 years ago but also lights it up in the playoffs, because now with McDavid's contract kicking in he has no choice but to trade one or both of the 6 million dollar men. I don't like the leverage, or lack there of, he would have had with any GM at that point let alone if Eberle continued to trend downward.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696471 is a reply to message #696462 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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oilerfan79 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 11:20

I'm not sure you're valuing Eberle correctly though. He's been on the block for over a year, I actually think he's been on the block since Chiarelli took the job.
The book is out on him, he's an average at best skater, not much in the way of defensive responsibility, who's mostly a perimeter player that doesn't sacrifice his body at all to make a play. The only thing he had going for him were his seasonal stats that have been on the decline for 2 years now and his reputation for being a big game player earned or not.
I think Chiarelli took the patient approach and turned down offers in the beginning wanting to see what he could do in the playoffs, and well we all know how that went. So faced with what was a diminished return due to having to take the big game player tag off, I believe he wasn't left with very many offers that weren't just draft picks which do us no good with our win now window. So he could have stuck with Eberle in the hopes that the coach will regain some trust in him, which I doubt McLellan seems to make up his mind and stay there, and hope he turns it around. The hope would be not only does Eberle regain his form from 4 years ago but also lights it up in the playoffs, because now with McDavid's contract kicking in he has no choice but to trade one or both of the 6 million dollar men. I don't like the leverage, or lack there of, he would have had with any GM at that point let alone if Eberle continued to trend downward.


I'm saying that the way the Oilers dangled Eberle was part of the problem.

I think you're right. The Oilers have been shopping Eberle for some time. But that's not the way they should have been approaching the market. They've hurt their own ability because they've looked like they want to give him away for ages. You want the guy on the other side of the table to think that it's painful to give what you're offering...not that that's an objective for you. If it's clear that you want to move him, then you're not going to get much.

That's been a problem for Chiarelli forever. Look at all his major deals:

Kessel - team upped the rhetoric and slammed him through the media. They suggested he wasn't a fit, and the cap dollars could be spent better elsewhere and in the end, they got draft picks (two firsts and a second) for a very talented player coming off a 36 goal, 60 point season. They were lucky with those, because the return would have looked a lot worse had the Maple Leafs not had an awful season. Giguere was hurt and limited to 15 games. The other three goalies were dreadful, and so the Bruins lucked in to Tyler Seguin...which brings us to Tyler Seguin.

Seguin - Bruins decide to trade him to free up cap space for Nathan Horton that they don't need because Horton decides to sign elsewhere. I've talked earlier about how he approached his ask - it was clear that the Bruins didn't spend a lot of time discussing what they were looking for in a trade, just whether it made sense to trade him, because he wasn't really a Bruins-style player. They dealt him for a package centred around Loui Eriksson - who had similar stats the previous two seasons to Seguin, but was 7 years older and quickly closing in on UFA status. The only remaining player for the Bruins now is Joe Morrow, who's played just 65 games with them. Seguin remains...well...a pretty good player for Dallas.

Boychuk - backed in to a corner by cap mismanagement, Chiarelli calls Garth Snow to help him out of a bind. He gets robbed blind by Snow, who can tell that Chiarelli is desperate and who pays only two second round picks and a third. One of them was a third pairing guy for Boston last year though...so there is that...

Hall - Chiarelli declares at the end of the season he's going to get a right shot defenceman. He then doubles down on it several times before racing to complete a deal before a non-existent deadline. He apparently asked if Shero could top up the trade, and Shero said no. But that's just the price you have to pay! I've said before that it's good to know what you're targeting, but declaring that you're going to get X done by a certain date or time? It's adding pressure to yourself that you don't need. There were lots of defencemen who were discussed as trade possibilities. Chiarelli could have played teams off a little bit, making them believe he was close to a different deal. And he should have said publicly that he wasn't that worried about the defence, because they felt that having Klefbom healthy was like adding a top-pairing defenceman anyhow.

Eberle - Again, the move is telegraphed to the whole league. I do think he's been calling people and asking what they'd give for Eberle for a while now. That's a pretty piss poor way of approaching that though. It tells everyone he's selling low and plans to do it anyhow. They're going to underbid and see what he bites on.

Also, he should stop calling Snow. Boychuk, Reinhart, Eberle...it's like he's playing poker with his hands up against the Islanders (which is extra embarrassing when you consider that Garth Snow was hired out of his goal crease to the GM chair there.)




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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696491 is a reply to message #696471 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerfan79  is currently offline oilerfan79
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I'm going to disagree on a few of those. Kessel was asking for money that star players, the leaders of their respective teams get, he is not one of those. A very talented hockey player yes but not a guy that will lead you to glory, just ask the Leafs.
Seguin is an extremely good player as well, but I seem to remember stories coming out in the media about how immature he was how the bruins had to treat him like a child, even had to bring in someone to clean his house because he'd live in filth otherwise. Again not the leader of a good team. But someone who probably needed a wake up call. These stories also came out in the media meaning every other team knew about them as well. The return for him was bad I will agree with you there.
You are right the Boychuck deal was bad cap management. But he really did have no choice. If he didn't make a deal he'd be fined and forfeit games or lose assets for nothing on waivers.
The Hall deal I'd make everyday, very good d-men are worth much more than wingers, even wingers as good as Hall. As far as telegraphing his move it was no secret that the Oilers d was terrible and had to get better in a hurry before the taint of loosing rubbed off on McDavid like it had on Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov. I really do believe that was the price that had to be paid, and I also believe if we hadn't paid that price we would not have seen the playoffs this year either.
Which brings us to Eberle. I think it's a similar situation to Boychuck. He will be in cap hell next year with McDavid. I think the numbers are already worked out in fact. Once those numbers come out every other GM in the league will know he's in cap hell. What is the return when everyone else knows you have to do this. To be honest I think Snow jumped the gun he should have waited till the McDavid deal was announced, he probably could have got Eberle for less.
And just wait I believe we'll see Nuge gone before July 1st as well because he'll need the money for Draisaitl and he'll need to move Nuge before the value of the contract comes out. But he'll probably sign a 3rd line center that plays a heavier game to suit how the coach wants to play with a little wiggle room under the cap.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696506 is a reply to message #696491 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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oilerfan79 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 12:37

I'm going to disagree on a few of those. Kessel was asking for money that star players, the leaders of their respective teams get, he is not one of those. A very talented hockey player yes but not a guy that will lead you to glory, just ask the Leafs.
Seguin is an extremely good player as well, but I seem to remember stories coming out in the media about how immature he was how the bruins had to treat him like a child, even had to bring in someone to clean his house because he'd live in filth otherwise. Again not the leader of a good team. But someone who probably needed a wake up call. These stories also came out in the media meaning every other team knew about them as well. The return for him was bad I will agree with you there.
You are right the Boychuck deal was bad cap management. But he really did have no choice. If he didn't make a deal he'd be fined and forfeit games or lose assets for nothing on waivers.
The Hall deal I'd make everyday, very good d-men are worth much more than wingers, even wingers as good as Hall. As far as telegraphing his move it was no secret that the Oilers d was terrible and had to get better in a hurry before the taint of loosing rubbed off on McDavid like it had on Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov. I really do believe that was the price that had to be paid, and I also believe if we hadn't paid that price we would not have seen the playoffs this year either.
Which brings us to Eberle. I think it's a similar situation to Boychuck. He will be in cap hell next year with McDavid. I think the numbers are already worked out in fact. Once those numbers come out every other GM in the league will know he's in cap hell. What is the return when everyone else knows you have to do this. To be honest I think Snow jumped the gun he should have waited till the McDavid deal was announced, he probably could have got Eberle for less.
And just wait I believe we'll see Nuge gone before July 1st as well because he'll need the money for Draisaitl and he'll need to move Nuge before the value of the contract comes out. But he'll probably sign a 3rd line center that plays a heavier game to suit how the coach wants to play with a little wiggle room under the cap.


A few minor corrections:

- The Kessel deal wasn't his current one. He signed a five-year 5.4MM deal after being dealt to the Leafs - and he was full value for it. Led the team in scoring in every single campaign. During that 5 year deal, he was the 14th highest point scorer (333) and the fifth highest goal scorer (156) in the entire league.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/phil-kessel

- Yes, Seguin's off-ice life was much talked about. To me, that shows a couple things:
A) The Bruins, like the Oilers, resort to character assassination in order to justify team moves. We saw something similar when Kessel was moved.
B) There's challenges when you give millions of dollars to teenagers, and you're going to have to spend time with many of them to make sure they act responsibly. and don't go off the deep end. Teams should EXPECT to deal with challenges with kids who are thrust in to wealth and fame and plan accordingly. For most of them, they just need guidance. There's a minority that aren't save-able, but if teams are proactive and smart about it, I think you can handle that.

- We simply disagree on value for both Hall and Eberle. I think we got fleeced on both, and that a better GM, with better negotiating skills does better in both trades.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696472 is a reply to message #696441 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McDavid97  is currently offline McDavid97
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Adam wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 09:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 09:04

In the days leading up to the Russell contract and then after it was signed, it's been divided. There are those who hate it and those you love it. I fall in the middle. I think the contract is a bit too long. My preference was 2 years, 3 if you had too, I didn't want 4. I was hoping for a cap hit that started with a 3 but its at an even 4. I am confident in saying that on the open market, Russell easily gets over 4 mill and at least 4 years. So I don't think they overpaid but they didn't get a discount which I had hoped for.

But for the people that hate Russell, they are pissed. I have read a ton about all the things he can't do. I have read a ton about all the certain numbers that say he's not good. The Oilers were a 103 pts team, went to game 7 in the Western Semi's, a series they kind of got screwed out of but they did that with Russell - who to some is a borderline NHLer - playing in their top 4 and playing a significant role. I have seen some people up in arms that the Oilers aren't trying to dramatically upgrade their defense.

So my question is, Russell played a significant role on the Oilers and they had a 103pt season. If he is so bad, how did that happen? How can you get that many points having a guy play that many mins for your team if he is as bad as some people say? Did the Oilers improve thanks to McDavid? Yes but he isn't the sole reason. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't play the whole game. Did the Oilers improve because Talbot was good? Yes but without at least a competent defense, I don't care how good your goalie is, he can only do so much. SO what was it. Are we talking fluke, act of god, what is it?


I've laid out my beliefs on why the team improved last year. A) Best player in the game in Connor McDavid. B) Very good goaltending from Talbot, who played in 20 more games than year before. C) Top 6 forwards and top 3 defence miss a grand total of 6 games due to injury.

As for why Russell doesn't cost us more last year, part of that comes down to Talbot too. Russell's on-ice save percentage was abnormally high. While overall, Talbot's save percentage was .918, when Russell was on the ice last year, it was .938. There will be those who try to interpret that as evidence that he's doing something to make it easier for his goalie to save the puck, but if that was the case, then he should see a similar phenomenon every year. (Hint: he doesn't). On-ice save percentage, like shooting percentage, fluctuates and outlying numbers tend to regress to the norm.

This article was dismissed angrily by some of Edmonton's mainstream media, but Matt Henderson is providing statistical evidence to back up why Russell isn't good. Basically it comes down to this - when he's on the ice, the Oilers spend more time in their own zone, shoot less and get shot on more.

https://oilersnation.com/2017/06/15/signing-kris-russell-wou ld-be-a-horrible-mistake/

Now, I've seen the argument you've made here about the 103 point season again and again both here and on twitter and even from media guys who should know better. The problem is, that the Oilers should have expected that kind of bounce last year. They have a healthy generational player on their team - that's what happens with players like that.

They should now be looking to capture a championship. That should be the stated goal for this year. Any year in the next ten that they don't win is a missed opportunity. So given that, the management should be looking at this as a season that fell short and be analyzing what they need to make the next step. They can't pat themselves on the back, and they can't be complacent.

It was clear in the playoffs that the Sharks and Ducks had a better defence and a better break-out than the Oilers did. Puck-moving from the defence of those two teams was very good, and they weren't even class of the conference. To me, it was clearly an area that looked in need of an upgrade even before Sekera went down. Now, with #2 out until Christmas, there's a giant hole. We've addressed it by re-signing Kris Russell and indicating interest in bringing back Gryba too. You have to hope there's something more coming there, because it's just not enough yet.

Add to that getting worse at right wing, and you've got a 103 point team that looks objectively worse on June 26th than it did at the end of the season. Does that give you comfort we're going to challenge for the Cup next year?


I must be one of a few here that thing our last years 103 point total isn't going to be what we are close to this year. People seem to forget that we were a bottom place team for a long time. I think we will be fighting for a playoff spot. It seems that some here think that the 103 points is going to be a new norm and playoffs are a guarantee. I don't see our team better as of right now with the moves it made, yes it's early but even if we maintained the status quo I don't see us being as good as last year.
Hopefully we can address some needs in free agency.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #701228 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Mon, 30 October 2017 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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To all those who predicted Russell would be on the third pairing by the end of the year, congrats! It was about a month.

I'm joking a little bit here, because it's just one game. But at least for now, Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, and Benning are in the Top-4... And that's with Sekera out still. We will see how actual ice time breaks down.

Russell is paired with Auvitu at practice today.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #701230 is a reply to message #701228 ]
Mon, 30 October 2017 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 30 October 2017 11:28

To all those who predicted Russell would be on the third pairing by the end of the year, congrats! It was about a month.

I'm joking a little bit here, because it's just one game. But at least for now, Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, and Benning are in the Top-4... And that's with Sekera out still. We will see how actual ice time breaks down.

Russell is paired with Auvitu at practice today.


I'm forever shocked at how little Chia has cared about having some offensive ability on our RHD side. McLellan lived off that type of player for his whole coaching career. We have all these left handed playmakers and no one to even create the threat of 1-timer with at the blue line on the PP. You always have time to take a few strides to get to Klef if McDavid passes the puck to him. This big commitment to Russell with all the Nurse love the org has, and with Klef in the system never made a lick of sense.



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #701233 is a reply to message #701228 ]
Mon, 30 October 2017 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 30 October 2017 11:28

To all those who predicted Russell would be on the third pairing by the end of the year, congrats! It was about a month.

I'm joking a little bit here, because it's just one game. But at least for now, Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, and Benning are in the Top-4... And that's with Sekera out still. We will see how actual ice time breaks down.

Russell is paired with Auvitu at practice today.



My post from the Strome for Eberle thread, word for word applies to this one is you replace "trade" with "signing"...

PlusOne wrote on Sun, 29 October 2017 12:11

Reading through this thread is hilarious and depressing all at once. A large portion didnt like the trade, a smaller group took a wait and see approach and the vast minority thought it was a good deal.
Once again the "smartest guys in the room" seem to have fooled only themselves in thinking somehow this team would be better by continuing to trade away good players and doing nothing to fill exitisting and newly created holes.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702144 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Thu, 09 November 2017 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Sharing purely to spread the laughs. Not more Russell debates :) He is a very well known quantity now.

@eplerjc
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOOonBEW0AA9_4l.jpg

@OilersNation
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOJOPm6UEAAVAGm.jpg

[Updated on: Thu, 09 November 2017 17:05]


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- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702819 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Just for the sake of humour again:

VisuallyBetter‏ @Isuckatpicking
A little something for Oilers fans. #nhl

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DO3NYwOVwAASh5F.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DO3NYwUVoAEADPs.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DO3NYwYVAAAOSCk.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DO3NYwDUEAA3SxR.jpg



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702820 is a reply to message #702819 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McDavid97  is currently offline McDavid97
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I really wonder how much worse off this team would be if we didn't have Russell. We didn't need to give him a 4X4 contract with a NTM clause. We needed someone for a stop gap for Sekera being out but why the extra years?
We are 7-10-2 , how many more losses would we have... was it really worth it...



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702821 is a reply to message #702820 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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McDavid97 wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 15:23

I really wonder how much worse off this team would be if we didn't have Russell. We didn't need to give him a 4X4 contract with a NTM clause. We needed someone for a stop gap for Sekera being out but why the extra years?
We are 7-10-2 , how many more losses would we have... was it really worth it...


He really needed to make a play for an offensive 2nd pair guy. A RHD that can shoot. That guy could be playing with Klef right now, or Nurse while we wait for Sek to come back, and he'd be just as useful when Sek came back.

I know lots hate the Ebs trade, and I did too. Such a garbage return and he ended up doing NOTHING with the cap space. But the worst move of the summer by far as that Russell deal. Completely slammed the door on being able to fill a desperate need on the roster for many years. At least without having to rip apart the forward group even further.

There was no plan last summer. Just Russell love, and a couple spite driven trade/buyout moves. Oh and giving Drai top dollar, and letting McDavid negotiate with himself to give a discount.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 November 2017 15:35]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702831 is a reply to message #702821 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Based on all the talk in various threads and it doesn't really matter which one you go too, most people think the Russell signing was a mistake. Most people think the contract is bad, it's too long for too much money. Russell is a lousy player and the Oilers are screwed because of it.

So just for fun I am going to try something. I am not overly optimistic that very many will participate and it will probably just be more repeating of the same old Chia and Russell bashing but here goes.

Flash back to this past offseason. The Oilers just got screwed out of beating the Ducks. Sekera is out with an injury that has a recovery time of 6-9 months. So best case he is back with the team in December and many effective by January. Worst case he doesn't come back until February with maybe being up to speed by the trade deadline. Reality, he probably isn't totally himself until the 18-19 season. Your other top 4 guy Russell is up for a new contract. You have Nurse who in the offseason you have no clue what he is because he's so raw. One game he looks awesome, the next he's a train wreck. You have another in Benning who looked pretty decent but has not even a full NHL year under his belt So you expect him to have some ups and downs as well.

So you are the GM. You are missing your best/second best dman for maybe 3/4 of the year and you know he won't be fully effective until next season. Your best dman Klefbom took a huge step but he is still inexperienced and you can expect some highs and lows probably. You have Larsson, a solid, min munching but not spectacular dman. You have an extremely inexperienced Benning who you expect highs and lows. You have the unknown in Nurse who you expect highs and lows from. And you have Russell's roster spot to fill.

So what would you do? Are you standing pat like Chia basically did bringing back everyone including Russell. Are you trading for someone? Are you signing someone else.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 November 2017 16:41]


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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702832 is a reply to message #702831 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Trade for Hamonic.


2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702834 is a reply to message #702832 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Magnum wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 16:40

Trade for Hamonic.


And you feel the price was worth what the Flames paid? A 1st and 2 seconds because he's been brutal in Calgary. Just asking because you aren't saving any money on Hamonic and cap hit and cap space seems to be one of the main sticking points for Russell for people.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702835 is a reply to message #702834 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
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I too would have traded for Hamonic. I think a competent Gm gets that deal done. Worst part is he doubled down on stupid by throwing those picks he saved away basically


" If you have anything good to say, say it off!"

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702838 is a reply to message #702835 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Babaganoosh wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 16:46

I too would have traded for Hamonic. I think a competent Gm gets that deal done. Worst part is he doubled down on stupid by throwing those picks he saved away basically


Just FYI, Hamonic is performing like Russell this year, and did last year too. He's tanking Brodie's status as a top 5 Canadian D (status in Hrudey's mind I mean).

That would have been a bummer move :)



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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702840 is a reply to message #702832 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Magnum wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 16:40

Trade for Hamonic.


Or Demers. Or Hjalmarsson. Or someone else, who knows.

Bottom line is crippling your lineup for four years and potentially being forced to move Maroon and Nugent-Hopkins over a two-month injury is a bad strategy.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702836 is a reply to message #702831 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 16:38

Based on all the talk in various threads and it doesn't really matter which one you go too, most people think the Russell signing was a mistake. Most people think the contract is bad, it's too long for too much money. Russell is a lousy player and the Oilers are screwed because of it.

So just for fun I am going to try something. I am not overly optimistic that very many will participate and it will probably just be more repeating of the same old Chia and Russell bashing but here goes.

Flash back to this past offseason. The Oilers just got screwed out of beating the Ducks. Sekera is out with an injury that has a recovery time of 6-9 months. So best case he is back with the team in December and many effective by January. Worst case he doesn't come back until February with maybe being up to speed by the trade deadline. Reality, he probably isn't totally himself until the 18-19 season. Your other top 4 guy Russell is up for a new contract. You have Nurse who in the offseason you have no clue what he is because he's so raw. One game he looks awesome, the next he's a train wreck. You have another in Benning who looked pretty decent but has not even a full NHL year under his belt So you expect him to have some ups and downs as well.

So you are the GM. You are missing your best/second best dman for maybe 3/4 of the year and you know he won't be fully effective until next season. Your best dman Klefbom took a huge step but he is still inexperienced and you can expect some highs and lows probably. You have Larsson, a solid, min munching but not spectacular dman. You have an extremely inexperienced Benning who you expect highs and lows. You have the unknown in Nurse who you expect highs and lows from. And you have Russell's roster spot to fill.

So what would you do? Are you standing pat like Chia basically did bringing back everyone including Russell. Are you trading for someone? Are you signing someone else.


I think you'd have to start and actually evaluate what Russell gives you and how keeping him impacts your future. If Russell wants 4 years, you have to look beyond the first 3 months of the next season to make your plan of what to do with him. Do you want your RHD spot on your 2nd pair to be occupied by a guy proven to be extremely poor offensively that is proven to make your team play in your own zone more than most any other D in the NHL? Do you even want that next year, let alone 4 years?

I think you first try to play with the expansion draft to get a decent D from Vegas. My ideal case would be trying to make a trade for a long term solution. If it costs some good picks and prospects, so be it, we badly need that 2nd pairing offensive RHD.

I really think Russell should have been seen as the absolute last possible option, unless he was willing to sign for 1 year.


There was no alternative explored at all by Chia from what I saw. He was 100% all in with Russell, so he didn't even do the first step of what I said. Some proprietary analytics group told him Russell is actually awesome offensively, so it was all good.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 November 2017 16:52]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702837 is a reply to message #702836 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
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Exactly Russel is a one year stop gap at best. Why sign him to a 4x4 with a NMC. Did he have pics of Chia buggering Katz's pet goat or what.


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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702842 is a reply to message #702831 ]
Fri, 17 November 2017 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 17 November 2017 16:38

Based on all the talk in various threads and it doesn't really matter which one you go too, most people think the Russell signing was a mistake. Most people think the contract is bad, it's too long for too much money. Russell is a lousy player and the Oilers are screwed because of it.

So just for fun I am going to try something. I am not overly optimistic that very many will participate and it will probably just be more repeating of the same old Chia and Russell bashing but here goes.

Flash back to this past offseason. The Oilers just got screwed out of beating the Ducks. Sekera is out with an injury that has a recovery time of 6-9 months. So best case he is back with the team in December and many effective by January. Worst case he doesn't come back until February with maybe being up to speed by the trade deadline. Reality, he probably isn't totally himself until the 18-19 season. Your other top 4 guy Russell is up for a new contract. You have Nurse who in the offseason you have no clue what he is because he's so raw. One game he looks awesome, the next he's a train wreck. You have another in Benning who looked pretty decent but has not even a full NHL year under his belt So you expect him to have some ups and downs as well.

So you are the GM. You are missing your best/second best dman for maybe 3/4 of the year and you know he won't be fully effective until next season. Your best dman Klefbom took a huge step but he is still inexperienced and you can expect some highs and lows probably. You have Larsson, a solid, min munching but not spectacular dman. You have an extremely inexperienced Benning who you expect highs and lows. You have the unknown in Nurse who you expect highs and lows from. And you have Russell's roster spot to fill.

So what would you do? Are you standing pat like Chia basically did bringing back everyone including Russell. Are you trading for someone? Are you signing someone else.


I'm not signing Russell to that deal. If he wants to go get it from someone else, good for him. How did that work the summer before when he held out for that?

I'm not signing Gryba to his stupid deal either. A guy who again went all summer without an offer, then had to come to camp on a PTO and ended up as a scratch for most of the playoffs just isn't in high demand.

If these guys really want to come back, and I think I can use them, then I'm telling them it's on the team's terms, not theirs. No NMC, no term. Take a discount, just like the captain is doing.

There were lots of third pairing defencemen out there this summer. There's still third pairing guys you can get from other teams for next to nothing. And most of them aren't making 4MM a year for the next 4 years with a no-movement clause.

If it was Hamonic, and they traded for him to come here, and he struggled, at least you wouldn't have a no move, and you wouldn't have as long a marriage to the deal.

Of course, I wouldn't have downgraded Eberle in a straight up deal, and I wouldn't have bought out Pouliot for four years of cap annoyance, and I wouldn't have blown the Hall deal so badly the year before, so my team would have been in better shape.

And I wouldn't have traded Davidson for Desharnais, meaning that I already had one more third pairing defenceman, whether Davidson or Reinhart in the organization.

And I might have traded picks or prospects to get a piece for last year that could have actually contributed in the playoffs, hopefully pushing us past Anaheim, because I wouldn't have sat on my hands and said "the team isn't ready..."

I might have encouraged my coach to do a little less sitting on leads too...that habit always seeming to blow up in the Oilers faces. You have the best player in hockey and a few other dynamic scorers...maybe keep the heat on when you have a team against the ropes?

Ahhh...yes, there is a lot I'd do differently if I could take a time machine back and step in to Chia's shoes.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702846 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Sat, 18 November 2017 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 425
Registered: January 2011

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Every D-man on the books this year who has a cap hit between 3.5MM and 4.5MM (not including cap saving from being buried in the minors).

BOLD shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause

** shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause, and that were signed when the player was 30+

PLAYER -- CLAUSES -- AGE -- CAP HIT
_________________________________

Chris Tanev -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.45MM

Jack Johnson -- None -- 30 -- 4.357MM

Brenden Smith -- M-NTC -- 28 -- 4.35MM

Dmitry Kulikov -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.33MM

Jonathan Ericsson -- NTC -- 33 -- 4.25MM **

Marc-Edouard Valasic -- NTC -- 30 -- 4.25MM

David Savard -- None -- 27 -- 4.25MM

John Klingberg -- None -- 25 -- 4.25MM

Oscar Klefbom -- None -- 24 -- 4.167MM

Adam Larsson -- None -- 25 -- 4.166MM

Jonas Brodin -- None -- 24 -- 4.166MM

Damon Severson -- None -- 23 -- 4.166MM

Alexei Emlin -- M-NTC -- 31 -- 4.1MM

Niklas Hjalmarsson -- M-NTC, NMC -- 30 -- 4.1MM

Brain Dumoulin -- None -- 26 -- 4.1MM

Olli Maata -- None -- 23 -- 4.083MM

Jake Gardiner -- None --27 -- 4.05MM

Roman Josi -- None -- 27 -- 4.05MM

Zdeno Chara -- NMC -- 40 -- 4.00MM **

Marco Scandella -- None -- 27 -- 4.00MM

Cam Fowler -- None -- 25 -- 4.00MM

Kevin Bieska -- NMC -- 36 -- 4.00MM **

Kris Russell -- NMC -- 30 -- 4.00MM **

Jake Muzzin -- None -- 28 -- 4.00MM

Alec Martinez -- None -- 30 -- 4.00MM

John Carlson -- None -- 27 -- 3.966MM

Travis Hamonic -- None -- 27 -- 3.875MM

Connor Murphy -- None -- 24 -- 3.85MM

Justin Braun -- None -- 30 -- 3.80MM

Mattias Ekholm -- None -- 27 -- 3.75MM

Dan Hamhuis -- M-NTC -- 34 -- 3.75MM **

Braydon Coburn -- NTC -- 32 -- 3.70MM **

Mark Fayne -- None -- 30 -- 3.625MM

Luca Sbisa -- None -- 27 -- 3.60MM


Of these 35 contracts, the Oilers own 2 of the 4 worst deals (Russell & Fayne), signed by our current and former GM, respectively.

There are 6 players who are 30+ with a clause, and who signed that contract while 30+. Of these 6, Russell's is the third longest (4 years), behind Jonathan Ericsson (6 years) and Zdeno Chara (7 years). Braydon Coburn's was 3 years, while Kevin Bieksa and Dan Hamhius were both signed for 2 years.

If I had to speculate, I am guessing Russell's deal was based off Coburn's deal from the year before.

Also, there are only 54 D-men in the entire NHL that have some sort of clause. The OVERWHELMING majority of those with a clause are "top-tier" players. The rest are either bad contracts people are looking to get out from under (e.g., Russell), or part of short-term deals for near-retirement players looking for waiver protection so they don't ride the bus for the last leg of their career (e.g., Bieksa).

Anyway you slice it, the Russell deal is a failure. The salary is too high, the term is too long, and the clauses are completely out of step with the norm.



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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702894 is a reply to message #702846 ]
Sat, 18 November 2017 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
Messages: 1384
Registered: March 2004
Location: E-Town

1 Cup

ziltoid wrote on Sat, 18 November 2017 04:44

Every D-man on the books this year who has a cap hit between 3.5MM and 4.5MM (not including cap saving from being buried in the minors).

BOLD shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause

** shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause, and that were signed when the player was 30+

PLAYER -- CLAUSES -- AGE -- CAP HIT
_________________________________

Chris Tanev -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.45MM

Jack Johnson -- None -- 30 -- 4.357MM

Brenden Smith -- M-NTC -- 28 -- 4.35MM

Dmitry Kulikov -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.33MM

Jonathan Ericsson -- NTC -- 33 -- 4.25MM **

Marc-Edouard Valasic -- NTC -- 30 -- 4.25MM

David Savard -- None -- 27 -- 4.25MM

John Klingberg -- None -- 25 -- 4.25MM

Oscar Klefbom -- None -- 24 -- 4.167MM

Adam Larsson -- None -- 25 -- 4.166MM

Jonas Brodin -- None -- 24 -- 4.166MM

Damon Severson -- None -- 23 -- 4.166MM

Alexei Emlin -- M-NTC -- 31 -- 4.1MM

Niklas Hjalmarsson -- M-NTC, NMC -- 30 -- 4.1MM

Brain Dumoulin -- None -- 26 -- 4.1MM

Olli Maata -- None -- 23 -- 4.083MM

Jake Gardiner -- None --27 -- 4.05MM

Roman Josi -- None -- 27 -- 4.05MM

Zdeno Chara -- NMC -- 40 -- 4.00MM **

Marco Scandella -- None -- 27 -- 4.00MM

Cam Fowler -- None -- 25 -- 4.00MM

Kevin Bieska -- NMC -- 36 -- 4.00MM **

Kris Russell -- NMC -- 30 -- 4.00MM **

Jake Muzzin -- None -- 28 -- 4.00MM

Alec Martinez -- None -- 30 -- 4.00MM

John Carlson -- None -- 27 -- 3.966MM

Travis Hamonic -- None -- 27 -- 3.875MM

Connor Murphy -- None -- 24 -- 3.85MM

Justin Braun -- None -- 30 -- 3.80MM

Mattias Ekholm -- None -- 27 -- 3.75MM

Dan Hamhuis -- M-NTC -- 34 -- 3.75MM **

Braydon Coburn -- NTC -- 32 -- 3.70MM **

Mark Fayne -- None -- 30 -- 3.625MM

Luca Sbisa -- None -- 27 -- 3.60MM


Of these 35 contracts, the Oilers own 2 of the 4 worst deals (Russell & Fayne), signed by our current and former GM, respectively.

There are 6 players who are 30+ with a clause, and who signed that contract while 30+. Of these 6, Russell's is the third longest (4 years), behind Jonathan Ericsson (6 years) and Zdeno Chara (7 years). Braydon Coburn's was 3 years, while Kevin Bieksa and Dan Hamhius were both signed for 2 years.

If I had to speculate, I am guessing Russell's deal was based off Coburn's deal from the year before.

Also, there are only 54 D-men in the entire NHL that have some sort of clause. The OVERWHELMING majority of those with a clause are "top-tier" players. The rest are either bad contracts people are looking to get out from under (e.g., Russell), or part of short-term deals for near-retirement players looking for waiver protection so they don't ride the bus for the last leg of their career (e.g., Bieksa).

Anyway you slice it, the Russell deal is a failure. The salary is too high, the term is too long, and the clauses are completely out of step with the norm.


Great post man! Chia needs to do better.



Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702895 is a reply to message #702846 ]
Sat, 18 November 2017 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21869
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

ziltoid wrote on Sat, 18 November 2017 05:44

Every D-man on the books this year who has a cap hit between 3.5MM and 4.5MM (not including cap saving from being buried in the minors).

BOLD shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause

** shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause, and that were signed when the player was 30+

PLAYER -- CLAUSES -- AGE -- CAP HIT
_________________________________

Chris Tanev -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.45MM

Jack Johnson -- None -- 30 -- 4.357MM

Brenden Smith -- M-NTC -- 28 -- 4.35MM

Dmitry Kulikov -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.33MM

Jonathan Ericsson -- NTC -- 33 -- 4.25MM **

Marc-Edouard Valasic -- NTC -- 30 -- 4.25MM

David Savard -- None -- 27 -- 4.25MM

John Klingberg -- None -- 25 -- 4.25MM

Oscar Klefbom -- None -- 24 -- 4.167MM

Adam Larsson -- None -- 25 -- 4.166MM

Jonas Brodin -- None -- 24 -- 4.166MM

Damon Severson -- None -- 23 -- 4.166MM

Alexei Emlin -- M-NTC -- 31 -- 4.1MM

Niklas Hjalmarsson -- M-NTC, NMC -- 30 -- 4.1MM

Brain Dumoulin -- None -- 26 -- 4.1MM

Olli Maata -- None -- 23 -- 4.083MM

Jake Gardiner -- None --27 -- 4.05MM

Roman Josi -- None -- 27 -- 4.05MM

Zdeno Chara -- NMC -- 40 -- 4.00MM **

Marco Scandella -- None -- 27 -- 4.00MM

Cam Fowler -- None -- 25 -- 4.00MM

Kevin Bieska -- NMC -- 36 -- 4.00MM **

Kris Russell -- NMC -- 30 -- 4.00MM **

Jake Muzzin -- None -- 28 -- 4.00MM

Alec Martinez -- None -- 30 -- 4.00MM

John Carlson -- None -- 27 -- 3.966MM

Travis Hamonic -- None -- 27 -- 3.875MM

Connor Murphy -- None -- 24 -- 3.85MM

Justin Braun -- None -- 30 -- 3.80MM

Mattias Ekholm -- None -- 27 -- 3.75MM

Dan Hamhuis -- M-NTC -- 34 -- 3.75MM **

Braydon Coburn -- NTC -- 32 -- 3.70MM **

Mark Fayne -- None -- 30 -- 3.625MM

Luca Sbisa -- None -- 27 -- 3.60MM


Of these 35 contracts, the Oilers own 2 of the 4 worst deals (Russell & Fayne), signed by our current and former GM, respectively.

There are 6 players who are 30+ with a clause, and who signed that contract while 30+. Of these 6, Russell's is the third longest (4 years), behind Jonathan Ericsson (6 years) and Zdeno Chara (7 years). Braydon Coburn's was 3 years, while Kevin Bieksa and Dan Hamhius were both signed for 2 years.

If I had to speculate, I am guessing Russell's deal was based off Coburn's deal from the year before.

Also, there are only 54 D-men in the entire NHL that have some sort of clause. The OVERWHELMING majority of those with a clause are "top-tier" players. The rest are either bad contracts people are looking to get out from under (e.g., Russell), or part of short-term deals for near-retirement players looking for waiver protection so they don't ride the bus for the last leg of their career (e.g., Bieksa).

Anyway you slice it, the Russell deal is a failure. The salary is too high, the term is too long, and the clauses are completely out of step with the norm.



Please e-mail this to Bobby Nicks.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702926 is a reply to message #702895 ]
Sat, 18 November 2017 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 425
Registered: January 2011

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 18 November 2017 14:02

ziltoid wrote on Sat, 18 November 2017 05:44

Every D-man on the books this year who has a cap hit between 3.5MM and 4.5MM (not including cap saving from being buried in the minors).

BOLD shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause

** shows contracts for players who are 30+ with a clause, and that were signed when the player was 30+

PLAYER -- CLAUSES -- AGE -- CAP HIT
_________________________________

Chris Tanev -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.45MM

Jack Johnson -- None -- 30 -- 4.357MM

Brenden Smith -- M-NTC -- 28 -- 4.35MM

Dmitry Kulikov -- M-NTC -- 27 -- 4.33MM

Jonathan Ericsson -- NTC -- 33 -- 4.25MM **

Marc-Edouard Valasic -- NTC -- 30 -- 4.25MM

David Savard -- None -- 27 -- 4.25MM

John Klingberg -- None -- 25 -- 4.25MM

Oscar Klefbom -- None -- 24 -- 4.167MM

Adam Larsson -- None -- 25 -- 4.166MM

Jonas Brodin -- None -- 24 -- 4.166MM

Damon Severson -- None -- 23 -- 4.166MM

Alexei Emlin -- M-NTC -- 31 -- 4.1MM

Niklas Hjalmarsson -- M-NTC, NMC -- 30 -- 4.1MM

Brain Dumoulin -- None -- 26 -- 4.1MM

Olli Maata -- None -- 23 -- 4.083MM

Jake Gardiner -- None --27 -- 4.05MM

Roman Josi -- None -- 27 -- 4.05MM

Zdeno Chara -- NMC -- 40 -- 4.00MM **

Marco Scandella -- None -- 27 -- 4.00MM

Cam Fowler -- None -- 25 -- 4.00MM

Kevin Bieska -- NMC -- 36 -- 4.00MM **

Kris Russell -- NMC -- 30 -- 4.00MM **

Jake Muzzin -- None -- 28 -- 4.00MM

Alec Martinez -- None -- 30 -- 4.00MM

John Carlson -- None -- 27 -- 3.966MM

Travis Hamonic -- None -- 27 -- 3.875MM

Connor Murphy -- None -- 24 -- 3.85MM

Justin Braun -- None -- 30 -- 3.80MM

Mattias Ekholm -- None -- 27 -- 3.75MM

Dan Hamhuis -- M-NTC -- 34 -- 3.75MM **

Braydon Coburn -- NTC -- 32 -- 3.70MM **

Mark Fayne -- None -- 30 -- 3.625MM

Luca Sbisa -- None -- 27 -- 3.60MM


Of these 35 contracts, the Oilers own 2 of the 4 worst deals (Russell & Fayne), signed by our current and former GM, respectively.

There are 6 players who are 30+ with a clause, and who signed that contract while 30+. Of these 6, Russell's is the third longest (4 years), behind Jonathan Ericsson (6 years) and Zdeno Chara (7 years). Braydon Coburn's was 3 years, while Kevin Bieksa and Dan Hamhius were both signed for 2 years.

If I had to speculate, I am guessing Russell's deal was based off Coburn's deal from the year before.

Also, there are only 54 D-men in the entire NHL that have some sort of clause. The OVERWHELMING majority of those with a clause are "top-tier" players. The rest are either bad contracts people are looking to get out from under (e.g., Russell), or part of short-term deals for near-retirement players looking for waiver protection so they don't ride the bus for the last leg of their career (e.g., Bieksa).

Anyway you slice it, the Russell deal is a failure. The salary is too high, the term is too long, and the clauses are completely out of step with the norm.



Please e-mail this to Bobby Nicks.


Sadly, he is not in my contacts list.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #702927 is a reply to message #702926 ]
Sat, 18 November 2017 15:28 Go to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21869
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

ziltoid wrote on Sat, 18 November 2017 15:22

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 18 November 2017 14:02


Please e-mail this to Bobby Nicks.


Sadly, he is not in my contacts list.




We're just gonna have to guess then.

bobbyburgers69@oilers.com?



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

Send a private message to this user  

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