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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697311 is a reply to message #685942 ]
Wed, 05 July 2017 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Bob McKenzie‏ @TSNBobMcKenzie
Replying to @TSNBobMcKenzie @EdmontonOilers
Oh, wait, it's Connor McDavid signing. Huh. Not official, as I'm not working, but I believe deal likely to be 8 x $12.25M, give or take bit.

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
@EdmontonOilers Original deal was expected to be $13.25M but hearing McDavid wasn't comfortable with the number and may have insisted on lowering it...


Well. that's pretty close to the 97M deal over 8. Would be nice.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 July 2017 13:02]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697312 is a reply to message #697311 ]
Wed, 05 July 2017 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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This is full propaganda.


East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697316 is a reply to message #697312 ]
Wed, 05 July 2017 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 July 2017 13:07

This is full propaganda.


It sure is. And I do love the added touch of the red afro being the only other thing in the frame.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697314 is a reply to message #685942 ]
Wed, 05 July 2017 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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$12.5M x 8 years


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697386 is a reply to message #685942 ]
Wed, 05 July 2017 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Threat of an offersheet seems dried up with Montreal signing Galchenyuk. Teams with the space to make an offer the oilers realistically wouldn't match are just budget teams now, and Drai isn't worth that risk IMO. Like the guy, think he's gonna be great for us, but the resume is pretty thin still. Aside from budget teams, you have teams like Nashville that have to sign Arvidson and Johansen. Buffalo has to worry about Eichel and Rienhart's next deals. Jets have Laine coming up soon. Minny Nino and Granlund. Boston has Pastrnak. Just not seeing what could be there now. Guess you never really know for sure, but I think it's just the Oilers vs Drai now.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697583 is a reply to message #685942 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Bob Nicholson on Stauffer's show today saying he is 100% confident Drai will be signed for next season.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'll take Bobby Nick's word on stuff. Not really a stretch either. Don't think the offer sheet possibility is really there any more. Just a long negotiation.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697585 is a reply to message #697583 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:01

Bob Nicholson on Stauffer's show today saying he is 100% confident Drai will be signed for next season.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'll take Bobby Nick's word on stuff. Not really a stretch either. Don't think the offer sheet possibility is really there any more. Just a long negotiation.


Thought the part of that interview about Gretzky's role was weird. Also made me uncomfortable to hear him talk about how important Kevin Lowe's leadership is to the whole team. Hard to hear him deliver those comments the way that he did and not see Lowe having a chair in most hockey operations meetings...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697589 is a reply to message #697585 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:15

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:01

Bob Nicholson on Stauffer's show today saying he is 100% confident Drai will be signed for next season.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'll take Bobby Nick's word on stuff. Not really a stretch either. Don't think the offer sheet possibility is really there any more. Just a long negotiation.


Thought the part of that interview about Gretzky's role was weird. Also made me uncomfortable to hear him talk about how important Kevin Lowe's leadership is to the whole team. Hard to hear him deliver those comments the way that he did and not see Lowe having a chair in most hockey operations meetings...

I see you are the type that really holds a grudge for a long time. I am guessing you are one of those fans who will never be satisfied until Klowe is fired, beaten, tarred and feathered in the City center then police escorted out of town.
KLowe made mistakes. We all know that. He's in a different position in the organization. He's not the main hockey voice anymore. Gone are the days when its one guy running the show. Its lots of voices now. Sure he's made some mistakes but please point out which NHL exec is perfect and never made a mistake? The guy has a ton of hockey knowledge, so it would be beyond stupid to not at least get an opinion because multiple sets of eyes on things are always better than one set. He's done a HUGE amount of good for the team and especially the City. This hated of the man need to stop. It's petty and really quite sad if you ask me.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697591 is a reply to message #697589 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:53

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:15

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:01

Bob Nicholson on Stauffer's show today saying he is 100% confident Drai will be signed for next season.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'll take Bobby Nick's word on stuff. Not really a stretch either. Don't think the offer sheet possibility is really there any more. Just a long negotiation.


Thought the part of that interview about Gretzky's role was weird. Also made me uncomfortable to hear him talk about how important Kevin Lowe's leadership is to the whole team. Hard to hear him deliver those comments the way that he did and not see Lowe having a chair in most hockey operations meetings...

I see you are the type that really holds a grudge for a long time. I am guessing you are one of those fans who will never be satisfied until Klowe is fired, beaten, tarred and feathered in the City center then police escorted out of town.
KLowe made mistakes. We all know that. He's in a different position in the organization. He's not the main hockey voice anymore. Gone are the days when its one guy running the show. Its lots of voices now. Sure he's made some mistakes but please point out which NHL exec is perfect and never made a mistake? The guy has a ton of hockey knowledge, so it would be beyond stupid to not at least get an opinion because multiple sets of eyes on things are always better than one set. He's done a HUGE amount of good for the team and especially the City. This hated of the man need to stop. It's petty and really quite sad if you ask me.

As the architect of the Decade of Darkness all I need to see is him being held accountable for the obvious decline of the team. That would show me the organization understands what was behind its failure. The fact that this has not happened and the fact that the organization is observably moving back towards the set up that resulted in failure tells me they are not ready to forward into a future that focuses on results and success.

So, I don't need tarring, feathering, and police escorts. I need accountability. Lowe having a key role is not accountability.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697592 is a reply to message #697589 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:53

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:15

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:01

Bob Nicholson on Stauffer's show today saying he is 100% confident Drai will be signed for next season.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'll take Bobby Nick's word on stuff. Not really a stretch either. Don't think the offer sheet possibility is really there any more. Just a long negotiation.


Thought the part of that interview about Gretzky's role was weird. Also made me uncomfortable to hear him talk about how important Kevin Lowe's leadership is to the whole team. Hard to hear him deliver those comments the way that he did and not see Lowe having a chair in most hockey operations meetings...

I see you are the type that really holds a grudge for a long time. I am guessing you are one of those fans who will never be satisfied until Klowe is fired, beaten, tarred and feathered in the City center then police escorted out of town.
KLowe made mistakes. We all know that. He's in a different position in the organization. He's not the main hockey voice anymore. Gone are the days when its one guy running the show. Its lots of voices now. Sure he's made some mistakes but please point out which NHL exec is perfect and never made a mistake? The guy has a ton of hockey knowledge, so it would be beyond stupid to not at least get an opinion because multiple sets of eyes on things are always better than one set. He's done a HUGE amount of good for the team and especially the City. This hated of the man need to stop. It's petty and really quite sad if you ask me.


The Kevin Lowe Decade of DarknessTM continues haunts me. I still have nightmares over the Mac T hiring press conference. So I'm on board with Mr. Lowe having nothing to do with the organization ever again.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697593 is a reply to message #697589 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:53

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:15

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:01

Bob Nicholson on Stauffer's show today saying he is 100% confident Drai will be signed for next season.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'll take Bobby Nick's word on stuff. Not really a stretch either. Don't think the offer sheet possibility is really there any more. Just a long negotiation.


Thought the part of that interview about Gretzky's role was weird. Also made me uncomfortable to hear him talk about how important Kevin Lowe's leadership is to the whole team. Hard to hear him deliver those comments the way that he did and not see Lowe having a chair in most hockey operations meetings...

I see you are the type that really holds a grudge for a long time. I am guessing you are one of those fans who will never be satisfied until Klowe is fired, beaten, tarred and feathered in the City center then police escorted out of town.
KLowe made mistakes. We all know that. He's in a different position in the organization. He's not the main hockey voice anymore. Gone are the days when its one guy running the show. Its lots of voices now. Sure he's made some mistakes but please point out which NHL exec is perfect and never made a mistake? The guy has a ton of hockey knowledge, so it would be beyond stupid to not at least get an opinion because multiple sets of eyes on things are always better than one set. He's done a HUGE amount of good for the team and especially the City. This hated of the man need to stop. It's petty and really quite sad if you ask me.


Please point out which NHL exec has overseen 10 years of exceptionally poor performance. If Lowe has/had so much excellent hockey knowledge, then the 10 years of darkness would have been very different (aka we would not have sucked nearly as bad, if at all, had Lowe known/knew what he was doing). It is an stone-cold truth that this team failed miserably for a decade while Lowe was under the Oilers employment (and in key roles). Thus, I am forced to conclude that either (1) Lowe is an incompetent idiot, or (2) Lowe had little or no role in running the team (thus he had little to no role in how the team performed). Given that (2) is clearly false, I am forced to conclude (1).

Given how the team, as guided by Lowe's hockey knowledge, failed for a decade, on what grounds does the team, today, benefit from his knowledge? Has Lowe suddenly seen the light and now understands the game in a way no-one else can? If so, what evidence do you have to support this? Has the NHL undergone a radical shift over the past 2 years such that this shift plays right into the expertise of Lowe? If so, what evidence do you have of this?

The point is, the preponderance of the observable evidence points to Lowe playing a key role in running this team into the ground, then keeping it there for years on end. Moreover, there is no evidence to suggest that Lowe's knowledge-base or philosophy has since changed for the better, thus the only reasonable conclusion is that Lowe is still bad for this team.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697595 is a reply to message #697593 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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ziltoid wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 16:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:53

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:15

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:01

Bob Nicholson on Stauffer's show today saying he is 100% confident Drai will be signed for next season.

Take it for what it's worth, but I'll take Bobby Nick's word on stuff. Not really a stretch either. Don't think the offer sheet possibility is really there any more. Just a long negotiation.


Thought the part of that interview about Gretzky's role was weird. Also made me uncomfortable to hear him talk about how important Kevin Lowe's leadership is to the whole team. Hard to hear him deliver those comments the way that he did and not see Lowe having a chair in most hockey operations meetings...

I see you are the type that really holds a grudge for a long time. I am guessing you are one of those fans who will never be satisfied until Klowe is fired, beaten, tarred and feathered in the City center then police escorted out of town.
KLowe made mistakes. We all know that. He's in a different position in the organization. He's not the main hockey voice anymore. Gone are the days when its one guy running the show. Its lots of voices now. Sure he's made some mistakes but please point out which NHL exec is perfect and never made a mistake? The guy has a ton of hockey knowledge, so it would be beyond stupid to not at least get an opinion because multiple sets of eyes on things are always better than one set. He's done a HUGE amount of good for the team and especially the City. This hated of the man need to stop. It's petty and really quite sad if you ask me.


Please point out which NHL exec has overseen 10 years of exceptionally poor performance. If Lowe has/had so much excellent hockey knowledge, then the 10 years of darkness would have been very different (aka we would not have sucked nearly as bad, if at all, had Lowe known/knew what he was doing). It is an stone-cold truth that this team failed miserably for a decade while Lowe was under the Oilers employment (and in key roles). Thus, I am forced to conclude that either (1) Lowe is an incompetent idiot, or (2) Lowe had little or no role in running the team (thus he had little to no role in how the team performed). Given that (2) is clearly false, I am forced to conclude (1).

Given how the team, as guided by Lowe's hockey knowledge, failed for a decade, on what grounds does the team, today, benefit from his knowledge? Has Lowe suddenly seen the light and now understands the game in a way no-one else can? If so, what evidence do you have to support this? Has the NHL undergone a radical shift over the past 2 years such that this shift plays right into the expertise of Lowe? If so, what evidence do you have of this?

The point is, the preponderance of the observable evidence points to Lowe playing a key role in running this team into the ground, then keeping it there for years on end. Moreover, there is no evidence to suggest that Lowe's knowledge-base or philosophy has since changed for the better, thus the only reasonable conclusion is that Lowe is still bad for this team.


So what would you like to see happen to satisfy you so you get your revenge? I'm being serious. I am not trying to stick up for the guy. He did some good things, he also did some bad things. But I don't see what possible point there is in continually whining about Klowe. The billionaire owner who SAVED THE TEAM likes having him around. He's the owner, he pays the bills, can do whatever the hell he wants. I am going to guess that Katz sees some value in him other than telling old stories so my guess is Klowe will be around as long as he wants to be. So if you don't like it, there are 30 other NHL teams to cheer for.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697596 is a reply to message #697595 ]
Tue, 11 July 2017 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 16:35

ziltoid wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 16:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:53



I see you are the type that really holds a grudge for a long time. I am guessing you are one of those fans who will never be satisfied until Klowe is fired, beaten, tarred and feathered in the City center then police escorted out of town.
KLowe made mistakes. We all know that. He's in a different position in the organization. He's not the main hockey voice anymore. Gone are the days when its one guy running the show. Its lots of voices now. Sure he's made some mistakes but please point out which NHL exec is perfect and never made a mistake? The guy has a ton of hockey knowledge, so it would be beyond stupid to not at least get an opinion because multiple sets of eyes on things are always better than one set. He's done a HUGE amount of good for the team and especially the City. This hated of the man need to stop. It's petty and really quite sad if you ask me.


Please point out which NHL exec has overseen 10 years of exceptionally poor performance. If Lowe has/had so much excellent hockey knowledge, then the 10 years of darkness would have been very different (aka we would not have sucked nearly as bad, if at all, had Lowe known/knew what he was doing). It is an stone-cold truth that this team failed miserably for a decade while Lowe was under the Oilers employment (and in key roles). Thus, I am forced to conclude that either (1) Lowe is an incompetent idiot, or (2) Lowe had little or no role in running the team (thus he had little to no role in how the team performed). Given that (2) is clearly false, I am forced to conclude (1).

Given how the team, as guided by Lowe's hockey knowledge, failed for a decade, on what grounds does the team, today, benefit from his knowledge? Has Lowe suddenly seen the light and now understands the game in a way no-one else can? If so, what evidence do you have to support this? Has the NHL undergone a radical shift over the past 2 years such that this shift plays right into the expertise of Lowe? If so, what evidence do you have of this?

The point is, the preponderance of the observable evidence points to Lowe playing a key role in running this team into the ground, then keeping it there for years on end. Moreover, there is no evidence to suggest that Lowe's knowledge-base or philosophy has since changed for the better, thus the only reasonable conclusion is that Lowe is still bad for this team.


So what would you like to see happen to satisfy you so you get your revenge? I'm being serious. I am not trying to stick up for the guy. He did some good things, he also did some bad things. But I don't see what possible point there is in continually whining about Klowe. The billionaire owner who SAVED THE TEAM likes having him around. He's the owner, he pays the bills, can do whatever the hell he wants. I am going to guess that Katz sees some value in him other than telling old stories so my guess is Klowe will be around as long as he wants to be. So if you don't like it, there are 30 other NHL teams to cheer for.


First, my reply was in response to the bolder text, and I genuinely what to know on what ground do you believe it is a good idea for Lowe to play a role in this team, given the evidence I proposed against his involvement.

Second, the point of continually whining about Lowe is that I want this team to win, and Lowe has made a career out of doing the opposite. Yes, Katz can hire/fire whoever he wants, and run the team however he wants, but that does not mean I can't call Katz out for making bad decisions that run counter to what is in the team's best interests.

Third, the "saved the team" narrative is hyperbolic, and even if it were not, it still does not absolve Katz of his bad decisions. Hitler technically saved the German economy from the disaster it was post-WWI, but that does not absolve him of all the evil he did (this is an extreme example, but it highlights how one good deed -- or a deed that is perceived as good -- does not give a person(s) a pass on bad stuff they do in the future; that is just not how the world works).

Fourth, I have no "desire for revenge;" the evidence says Lowe is bad at his job, therefore he should be fired. Simple as that.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697609 is a reply to message #697596 ]
Wed, 12 July 2017 00:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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ziltoid wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 15:51


Third, the "saved the team" narrative is hyperbolic,


And ignores the fact that he then turned around and threatened to move the team when the City wasn't giving him every single thing he wanted in the arena negotiations. And this was during a time that the Oilers were in the midst of an ongoing sellout streak while being a miserable team performance wise.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697611 is a reply to message #697596 ]
Wed, 12 July 2017 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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ziltoid wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 16:51


Fourth, I have no "desire for revenge;" the evidence says Lowe is bad at his job, therefore he should be fired. Simple as that.


The number of players cycled through the team in that decade is ridiculous. There were seven (SEVEN!!!) coaches. The trainers got turfed. The doctors got axed. The equipment staff was turned over.

In the end, there were only a couple of constants throughout the Decade of Darkness. Joey Moss and the Old Boys Club in management - most specifically Kevin Lowe.

Now, I don't think Joey had anything to do with all the losing, and I think as manager, you ultimately should take responsibility for any failures (and pass credit on as much as possible when you succeed). In Edmonton, we had management that was quick to point fingers and lay blame on everyone else whenever they could. They set up an awful culture that led to fractured dressing rooms and stunted growth. They made dreadful mistakes in player acquisitions, player development, and cap management (not only were they awful, but they spent to the cap almost every year WHILE being awful).

Through it all, they constantly patted themselves on the back for accomplishing their plans, checking the boxes, moving in the right direction, losing and getting high draft picks.

In the end, that era only ended due to extremely good luck and the best player in the world landing in our laps to kick-off rebuild #3.

I think it's been clear that Lowe, MacTavish and Howson are grossly incompetent at their jobs in hockey management. On any other team, that means walking papers...even if they're friends with the owner. There's no shortage of stories of NHL owners firing managers with tears in their eyes.

Ultimately, while the management team has been supplemented with Peter Chiarelli, Keith Gretzky, Wayne Gretzky and Bob Nicholson, the men responsible for the WORST decade strung together by any NHL team in any era are still all in the room, offering their opinions and contributing to the management of this hockey team.

I don't want 'revenge'. I don't want tar and feathers. I just want my team to be managed capably and professionally, and I think keeping demonstrably incompetent people in executive positions in the organization A) is poisonous to culture, B) exposes the team to future judgement errors from guys who have track records of failing, and C) exposes the team to the risk that outside players, agents, etc. will assume that at heart, this team still is a Kevin Lowe team, with all that comes with that. When former players are openly critical of the antics of the management, it DOES have a negative impact on the team. All that means that Lowe, MacTavish and Howson should not work for this team any more. If Katz wants to hang out with them, he can still go for beer whenever they want to hang out. He can hire them to sweep the floors of his cabin for all I care...just take them out of the organization in one clean sweep.

Forgive and forget isn't an option, because they will just screw this up again and waste the biggest gift this team has received in over 35 years. They need to go.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697612 is a reply to message #697611 ]
Wed, 12 July 2017 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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Adam wrote on Wed, 12 July 2017 00:53

ziltoid wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 16:51


Fourth, I have no "desire for revenge;" the evidence says Lowe is bad at his job, therefore he should be fired. Simple as that.


If Katz wants to hang out with them, he can still go for beer whenever they want to hang out. He can hire them to sweep the floors of his cabin for all I care...just take them out of the organization in one clean sweep.



Not to derail this thread too much more, but that is what boggles my mind the most. Why not just give the old boys' club keys to rink and a spot on the jet? They don't need to have key roles in the organization just to hang out with everyone; heck, they'd have more time to crack a beer and swap stories with you if they did not have any hockey-related responsibilities.

Given that this is not the case, all I can really think of to explain this is the idea that Katz may just want his buddies to feel special and important; therefore he gives them the keys to the kingdom and lets them "have at 'er".... it's kind of like taking your kids to the park: you let them run around and do pretty much whatever they want. Sure you may have to kiss a boo-boo all better or give them a 5-minute time-out for hair-pulling, but at the end of the day it is all about letting them run around and have fun in their own little make-believe world.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697614 is a reply to message #697611 ]
Wed, 12 July 2017 08:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 12 July 2017 00:53

ziltoid wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 16:51


Fourth, I have no "desire for revenge;" the evidence says Lowe is bad at his job, therefore he should be fired. Simple as that.


The number of players cycled through the team in that decade is ridiculous. There were seven (SEVEN!!!) coaches. The trainers got turfed. The doctors got axed. The equipment staff was turned over.

In the end, there were only a couple of constants throughout the Decade of Darkness. Joey Moss and the Old Boys Club in management - most specifically Kevin Lowe.

Now, I don't think Joey had anything to do with all the losing, and I think as manager, you ultimately should take responsibility for any failures (and pass credit on as much as possible when you succeed). In Edmonton, we had management that was quick to point fingers and lay blame on everyone else whenever they could. They set up an awful culture that led to fractured dressing rooms and stunted growth. They made dreadful mistakes in player acquisitions, player development, and cap management (not only were they awful, but they spent to the cap almost every year WHILE being awful).

Through it all, they constantly patted themselves on the back for accomplishing their plans, checking the boxes, moving in the right direction, losing and getting high draft picks.

In the end, that era only ended due to extremely good luck and the best player in the world landing in our laps to kick-off rebuild #3.

I think it's been clear that Lowe, MacTavish and Howson are grossly incompetent at their jobs in hockey management. On any other team, that means walking papers...even if they're friends with the owner. There's no shortage of stories of NHL owners firing managers with tears in their eyes.

Ultimately, while the management team has been supplemented with Peter Chiarelli, Keith Gretzky, Wayne Gretzky and Bob Nicholson, the men responsible for the WORST decade strung together by any NHL team in any era are still all in the room, offering their opinions and contributing to the management of this hockey team.

I don't want 'revenge'. I don't want tar and feathers. I just want my team to be managed capably and professionally, and I think keeping demonstrably incompetent people in executive positions in the organization A) is poisonous to culture, B) exposes the team to future judgement errors from guys who have track records of failing, and C) exposes the team to the risk that outside players, agents, etc. will assume that at heart, this team still is a Kevin Lowe team, with all that comes with that. When former players are openly critical of the antics of the management, it DOES have a negative impact on the team. All that means that Lowe, MacTavish and Howson should not work for this team any more. If Katz wants to hang out with them, he can still go for beer whenever they want to hang out. He can hire them to sweep the floors of his cabin for all I care...just take them out of the organization in one clean sweep.

Forgive and forget isn't an option, because they will just screw this up again and waste the biggest gift this team has received in over 35 years. They need to go.


So I guess the answer to my question is you are just going to whine about Lowe for another 10-15 or more yrs or basically until Lowe retires. That sum it up?

I say that because while Lowe isn't directly involved in the Oilers, he's involved in the OEG. As we have seen, it appears that the OEG is going to be massive. They own the Oilers, the Oilkings, they are the driving force of the big land development in the downtown and I doubt that once Ice District is done, they will just stop. Based on Nicholson's interview yesterday, they have a big golf tournament that will only get bigger. They are getting into the pro bull riding. It wouldn't shock me if at some point they bring back a Pro Lacrosse team. It wouldn't shock me if one day they bought the Esks similar to the Flames and the Stamps. Based on all the concerts they have brought in in less than a year, they are probably tgoing to try to be the biggest concert venue/promoter in Western Canada. I am going to assume that the OEG is building towards being similar to MLSE. So Lowe is going to be around for probably a long time doing lots of the business type stuff and Yes, like it or not they will probably ask his opinion on the Oilers from time to time given the guy has been in pro hockey for what 35+ yrs.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697615 is a reply to message #697614 ]
Wed, 12 July 2017 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 12 July 2017 08:19

Adam wrote on Wed, 12 July 2017 00:53

ziltoid wrote on Tue, 11 July 2017 16:51


Fourth, I have no "desire for revenge;" the evidence says Lowe is bad at his job, therefore he should be fired. Simple as that.


The number of players cycled through the team in that decade is ridiculous. There were seven (SEVEN!!!) coaches. The trainers got turfed. The doctors got axed. The equipment staff was turned over.

In the end, there were only a couple of constants throughout the Decade of Darkness. Joey Moss and the Old Boys Club in management - most specifically Kevin Lowe.

Now, I don't think Joey had anything to do with all the losing, and I think as manager, you ultimately should take responsibility for any failures (and pass credit on as much as possible when you succeed). In Edmonton, we had management that was quick to point fingers and lay blame on everyone else whenever they could. They set up an awful culture that led to fractured dressing rooms and stunted growth. They made dreadful mistakes in player acquisitions, player development, and cap management (not only were they awful, but they spent to the cap almost every year WHILE being awful).

Through it all, they constantly patted themselves on the back for accomplishing their plans, checking the boxes, moving in the right direction, losing and getting high draft picks.

In the end, that era only ended due to extremely good luck and the best player in the world landing in our laps to kick-off rebuild #3.

I think it's been clear that Lowe, MacTavish and Howson are grossly incompetent at their jobs in hockey management. On any other team, that means walking papers...even if they're friends with the owner. There's no shortage of stories of NHL owners firing managers with tears in their eyes.

Ultimately, while the management team has been supplemented with Peter Chiarelli, Keith Gretzky, Wayne Gretzky and Bob Nicholson, the men responsible for the WORST decade strung together by any NHL team in any era are still all in the room, offering their opinions and contributing to the management of this hockey team.

I don't want 'revenge'. I don't want tar and feathers. I just want my team to be managed capably and professionally, and I think keeping demonstrably incompetent people in executive positions in the organization A) is poisonous to culture, B) exposes the team to future judgement errors from guys who have track records of failing, and C) exposes the team to the risk that outside players, agents, etc. will assume that at heart, this team still is a Kevin Lowe team, with all that comes with that. When former players are openly critical of the antics of the management, it DOES have a negative impact on the team. All that means that Lowe, MacTavish and Howson should not work for this team any more. If Katz wants to hang out with them, he can still go for beer whenever they want to hang out. He can hire them to sweep the floors of his cabin for all I care...just take them out of the organization in one clean sweep.

Forgive and forget isn't an option, because they will just screw this up again and waste the biggest gift this team has received in over 35 years. They need to go.


So I guess the answer to my question is you are just going to whine about Lowe for another 10-15 or more yrs or basically until Lowe retires. That sum it up?

I say that because while Lowe isn't directly involved in the Oilers, he's involved in the OEG. As we have seen, it appears that the OEG is going to be massive. They own the Oilers, the Oilkings, they are the driving force of the big land development in the downtown and I doubt that once Ice District is done, they will just stop. Based on Nicholson's interview yesterday, they have a big golf tournament that will only get bigger. They are getting into the pro bull riding. It wouldn't shock me if at some point they bring back a Pro Lacrosse team. It wouldn't shock me if one day they bought the Esks similar to the Flames and the Stamps. Based on all the concerts they have brought in in less than a year, they are probably tgoing to try to be the biggest concert venue/promoter in Western Canada. I am going to assume that the OEG is building towards being similar to MLSE. So Lowe is going to be around for probably a long time doing lots of the business type stuff and Yes, like it or not they will probably ask his opinion on the Oilers from time to time given the guy has been in pro hockey for what 35+ yrs.

Yup. Until he's fired or retired. He's an incompetent hockey manager who is still involved with Oilers hockey ops. I will never stop reminding people about how terrible he is at his job.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697616 is a reply to message #697614 ]
Wed, 12 July 2017 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 12 July 2017 08:19



So I guess the answer to my question is you are just going to whine about Lowe for another 10-15 or more yrs or basically until Lowe retires. That sum it up?

I say that because while Lowe isn't directly involved in the Oilers, he's involved in the OEG.



Given everything we have seen you cant honestly believe the above quote do you?



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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697618 is a reply to message #697616 ]
Wed, 12 July 2017 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Wed, 12 July 2017 08:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 12 July 2017 08:19



So I guess the answer to my question is you are just going to whine about Lowe for another 10-15 or more yrs or basically until Lowe retires. That sum it up?

I say that because while Lowe isn't directly involved in the Oilers, he's involved in the OEG.



Given everything we have seen you cant honestly believe the above quote do you?


Given everything I've seen about this poster and Kevin Lowe, I believe everything being said in this discussion reflects true sentiments.



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2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697918 is a reply to message #685942 ]
Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697931 is a reply to message #697918 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Chiarelli's at the cabin. They're not even working on this stuff right now. It's vacation time for Oilers management.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697932 is a reply to message #697931 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 08:23

jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Chiarelli's at the cabin. They're not even working on this stuff right now. It's vacation time for Oilers management.




Edit: My mistake, Liut wasn't Geaudreau's agent, just Risto.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 July 2017 09:54]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697946 is a reply to message #697932 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 08:29

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 08:23

jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Chiarelli's at the cabin. They're not even working on this stuff right now. It's vacation time for Oilers management.


How did Drai end up with the same d-bag agent Gaudreau has? That agent has a reputation of not getting anything done until Sept or later. And he didn't even get Gaudreau that great of a deal with the Tarasenko comparable right there on a platter. Holdout didn't amount to much.


I agree. If he had McDavid's agent or the Edmonton based agent that comes on Stauffer's show I think its Jerry Johansen, they deal would be done. There are SO many recently signed direct comparable contracts to use.
Monahan signed last year for 6.375. He had 31 - 62, 27-63, 27-58 seasons while playing ALL center. Do I think Leon is better player? I think so though he hasn't played as much center as Monahan. How much better? Well 1 mill per season better says he's significantly better.
Gaudreau signed last year for 6.75 mill. He had a 24-64 and a 30-78 season before signing a deal. So he had basically the same numbers as Leon did last year. He plays wing primarily where Leon had his most success. Do I like Leon better? Yes. Do I think offensively Leon is a better player than Gaudreau? Hard to say but Leon is technically a center as centers tend to be slightly more valuable than wingers. So if you bumped him up 500-750K does that not say he's better than Gaudreau?
Scheifele signed last year for 6.125. He is a REALLY good center. When he signed his deal, he came off of a 29-61 playing ALL center. He just had a 32-82 season. He put up those numbers being "the man" without a McDavid. Is Leon better than Scheifele right now? I would have to say no. Could he be? Maybe but if Leon put up 82 pts next season, I would be doing cart wheels.
Kuznetsov recently signed for 7.8 mill. If you add up the points Kuznetsov scored the last 2 seasons and then Leon's, they are almost the same. I would take Leon on my team over Kuznetsov. I believe Kuznetsov has played almost all center. Kuznetsov is older so he is giving up more UFA years so you have to take that into consideration and bumps that cap hit up slightly.

So realistically in my mind, the high is 7.8 mill for Leon, the low is Gaudreau's 6.75. If you are Leon's agent, how the hell can you argue that, especially when one of the guys is your own freaking client? Kuznetsov is older and giving up more UFA years so you have to take that into account for his cap hit which would make it slightly higher. So pick the middle which is around 7.275. Which is basically 500K more than Gaudreau which makes sense due to the different positions they play. I am not worried that it won't get done but I don't get why it's so hard for the player and agent. I know you always want to get as much as you can but the market has been set. The killer for Leon in my mind is the Scheifele contract. He is the big, strong, #1 center and he even shoots right that most teams drool over. He just put up an 82 pt season. If you gave 1 mill more than Scheifele, that in my mind is fair.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697947 is a reply to message #697946 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 10:02

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 08:29

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 08:23

jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Chiarelli's at the cabin. They're not even working on this stuff right now. It's vacation time for Oilers management.


How did Drai end up with the same d-bag agent Gaudreau has? That agent has a reputation of not getting anything done until Sept or later. And he didn't even get Gaudreau that great of a deal with the Tarasenko comparable right there on a platter. Holdout didn't amount to much.


I agree. If he had McDavid's agent or the Edmonton based agent that comes on Stauffer's show I think its Jerry Johansen, they deal would be done. There are SO many recently signed direct comparable contracts to use.
Monahan signed last year for 6.375. He had 31 - 62, 27-63, 27-58 seasons while playing ALL center. Do I think Leon is better player? I think so though he hasn't played as much center as Monahan. How much better? Well 1 mill per season better says he's significantly better.
Gaudreau signed last year for 6.75 mill. He had a 24-64 and a 30-78 season before signing a deal. So he had basically the same numbers as Leon did last year. He plays wing primarily where Leon had his most success. Do I like Leon better? Yes. Do I think offensively Leon is a better player than Gaudreau? Hard to say but Leon is technically a center as centers tend to be slightly more valuable than wingers. So if you bumped him up 500-750K does that not say he's better than Gaudreau?
Scheifele signed last year for 6.125. He is a REALLY good center. When he signed his deal, he came off of a 29-61 playing ALL center. He just had a 32-82 season. He put up those numbers being "the man" without a McDavid. Is Leon better than Scheifele right now? I would have to say no. Could he be? Maybe but if Leon put up 82 pts next season, I would be doing cart wheels.
Kuznetsov recently signed for 7.8 mill. If you add up the points Kuznetsov scored the last 2 seasons and then Leon's, they are almost the same. I would take Leon on my team over Kuznetsov. I believe Kuznetsov has played almost all center. Kuznetsov is older so he is giving up more UFA years so you have to take that into consideration and bumps that cap hit up slightly.

So realistically in my mind, the high is 7.8 mill for Leon, the low is Gaudreau's 6.75. If you are Leon's agent, how the hell can you argue that, especially when one of the guys is your own freaking client? Kuznetsov is older and giving up more UFA years so you have to take that into account for his cap hit which would make it slightly higher. So pick the middle which is around 7.275. Which is basically 500K more than Gaudreau which makes sense due to the different positions they play. I am not worried that it won't get done but I don't get why it's so hard for the player and agent. I know you always want to get as much as you can but the market has been set. The killer for Leon in my mind is the Scheifele contract. He is the big, strong, #1 center and he even shoots right that most teams drool over. He just put up an 82 pt season. If you gave 1 mill more than Scheifele, that in my mind is fair.


I make a mistake, Mike Liut is Ristolainen's agent, who also had his guy hold out to Oct. He signed right around when Gaudreau did, who has a different agent. Liut is Drai's agent.

I think the Risto negotiations actually went even worse than Gaudreau's. Lots of articles with Murray complaining :)

[Updated on: Wed, 26 July 2017 10:06]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697949 is a reply to message #697918 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Here you go, since it's so quiet, here is a random twitter guy who is claiming inside info :)

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I'm hearing that the Leon Draisaitl deal is close to being done. Could be announced by Friday according to front office #Oilers staff.

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I think he said the numbers would be 8 years/$64M



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697951 is a reply to message #697949 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09

jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Here you go, since it's so quiet, here is a random twitter guy who is claiming inside info :)

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I'm hearing that the Leon Draisaitl deal is close to being done. Could be announced by Friday according to front office #Oilers staff.

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I think he said the numbers would be 8 years/$64M



Is this guy remotely credible? I don't know who he is so I am guessing probably not.

If what that guys says actually happens, I can live with it. I want the 8 yrs. I think a cap hit of 8 is a touch high given the comparable contracts I listed. But in saying that, I have it in my mind that as much as I always want contracts to be lower, I would be surprised if it was lower than Kuznetsov's 7.8. So if it does come in at 8, I can accept that. I personally want the combined cap hit to be less than the Hawks Kane and Toews which is 21 mill. If Leon is at 8, the McDavid - Leon combination is 20.5



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697977 is a reply to message #697949 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 22:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09

jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Here you go, since it's so quiet, here is a random twitter guy who is claiming inside info :)

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I'm hearing that the Leon Draisaitl deal is close to being done. Could be announced by Friday according to front office #Oilers staff.

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I think he said the numbers would be 8 years/$64M



I'm not sure. Someone on Twitter said she kept calling him out for being wrong, but if I remember correctly, I think he called the Russell signing close to accurately.

We'll find out soon enough I guess.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697978 is a reply to message #697977 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:24

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09

jds308 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 15:30

The silence is deafening.... Anyone hearing what's going on with Leon extension? I've stopped listening to the Edm radio guys so I don't hear all the chatter, if there is any.


Here you go, since it's so quiet, here is a random twitter guy who is claiming inside info :)

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I'm hearing that the Leon Draisaitl deal is close to being done. Could be announced by Friday according to front office #Oilers staff.

Joshua Marshall‏ @JMarshyBosco93
I think he said the numbers would be 8 years/$64M



I'm not sure. Someone on Twitter said she kept calling him out for being wrong, but if I remember correctly, I think he called the Russell signing close to accurately.

We'll find out soon enough I guess.


Think he called Spencer Foo signing with the Flames before anyone else too.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697943 is a reply to message #685942 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Hopefully not a jinx, but no serious offer sheet has been signed later than July 26th since the 90's. Only one was a 1.9M 1 year offer for Kesler after he had a 23 point season and Philly was looking for more power forwards because that's just what they did back then.

Really doubting an offer sheet is something Drai and his agent can argue at the table any more.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 July 2017 09:45]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697948 is a reply to message #697943 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 09:42

Hopefully not a jinx, but no serious offer sheet has been signed later than July 26th since the 90's. Only one was a 1.9M 1 year offer for Kesler after he had a 23 point season and Philly was looking for more power forwards because that's just what they did back then.

Really doubting an offer sheet is something Drai and his agent can argue at the table any more.


I think the chances of offer sheet are very low. It's something for the media to talk about, but the Oilers clearly have the room to match, so it would have to be ridiculous in order to have a chance of success...and that means massive risk to the other side if it doesn't get matched.

I don't expect Draisaitl to be at training camp to start this year. That's okay. It's just what happens in these negotiations.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697984 is a reply to message #697948 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 09:42

Hopefully not a jinx, but no serious offer sheet has been signed later than July 26th since the 90's. Only one was a 1.9M 1 year offer for Kesler after he had a 23 point season and Philly was looking for more power forwards because that's just what they did back then.

Really doubting an offer sheet is something Drai and his agent can argue at the table any more.


I think the chances of offer sheet are very low. It's something for the media to talk about, but the Oilers clearly have the room to match, so it would have to be ridiculous in order to have a chance of success...and that means massive risk to the other side if it doesn't get matched.

I don't expect Draisaitl to be at training camp to start this year. That's okay. It's just what happens in these negotiations.


I agree. I don't buy into the media idea that teams are going to throw out an offer sheet with no real intentions of wanting the player just to try and screw another team over. You have to work with these teams and that is no way to do business. If you offer sheet for Leon you are wanting to take him on. So in saying that, in order for you to actually have a chance of the Oilers the not matching, you have to throw him a crazy high offer. Probably pushing 9 or 10 mill. Leon is my second favorite Oiler but I am sorry, he's not a 9 mill player yet. Maybe he gets there but not now, not even close. His sample size is too small and you have to take into account him playing a huge amount of time with McDavid and the affect it probably had on his numbers. So you as a team can't be offer sheeting Leon and offering him 9 + mill and have him be potentially a 60 pt center, it would screw your team. Secondly, not a lot of teams can physically afford to take on Leon at the cap hit it would take to get him.

Vegas is probably one of the very few teams that maybe could do it. If I am not mistaken, the picks you have to give up have to be your own. So if you are a brand new team and you need to build an organization both with your NHL team and your system, can you really afford to give up that many high end draft picks for 1 player? I don't care what the Vegas brass says publicly, they know they will not be a good team for several years. Given who they drafted and the lame side deals they made to pass on actual good players, they will most definitely be a bad team getting high picks. So it just doesn't make sense. Plus if you are Leon and I know money talks but if you can get 50-60 mill from the Oilers, be set for life while being on a really good team, maybe winning a championship, is an extra 10 mill over a contract really worth being on a crap team losing and losing for years? After all, a team can offer him the contract but he has to physically accept it. So I would think the dollars would have to be A LOT more than what the Oilers would offer him to accept. Playing on a crap team, getting beat night after night, putting up lousy numbers because you don't have anyone to play with would get old real fast.

So I just don't see it happening.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697986 is a reply to message #697984 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 08:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 09:42

Hopefully not a jinx, but no serious offer sheet has been signed later than July 26th since the 90's. Only one was a 1.9M 1 year offer for Kesler after he had a 23 point season and Philly was looking for more power forwards because that's just what they did back then.

Really doubting an offer sheet is something Drai and his agent can argue at the table any more.


I think the chances of offer sheet are very low. It's something for the media to talk about, but the Oilers clearly have the room to match, so it would have to be ridiculous in order to have a chance of success...and that means massive risk to the other side if it doesn't get matched.

I don't expect Draisaitl to be at training camp to start this year. That's okay. It's just what happens in these negotiations.


I agree. I don't buy into the media idea that teams are going to throw out an offer sheet with no real intentions of wanting the player just to try and screw another team over. You have to work with these teams and that is no way to do business. If you offer sheet for Leon you are wanting to take him on. So in saying that, in order for you to actually have a chance of the Oilers the not matching, you have to throw him a crazy high offer. Probably pushing 9 or 10 mill. Leon is my second favorite Oiler but I am sorry, he's not a 9 mill player yet. Maybe he gets there but not now, not even close. His sample size is too small and you have to take into account him playing a huge amount of time with McDavid and the affect it probably had on his numbers. So you as a team can't be offer sheeting Leon and offering him 9 + mill and have him be potentially a 60 pt center, it would screw your team. Secondly, not a lot of teams can physically afford to take on Leon at the cap hit it would take to get him.

Vegas is probably one of the very few teams that maybe could do it. If I am not mistaken, the picks you have to give up have to be your own. So if you are a brand new team and you need to build an organization both with your NHL team and your system, can you really afford to give up that many high end draft picks for 1 player? I don't care what the Vegas brass says publicly, they know they will not be a good team for several years. Given who they drafted and the lame side deals they made to pass on actual good players, they will most definitely be a bad team getting high picks. So it just doesn't make sense. Plus if you are Leon and I know money talks but if you can get 50-60 mill from the Oilers, be set for life while being on a really good team, maybe winning a championship, is an extra 10 mill over a contract really worth being on a crap team losing and losing for years? After all, a team can offer him the contract but he has to physically accept it. So I would think the dollars would have to be A LOT more than what the Oilers would offer him to accept. Playing on a crap team, getting beat night after night, putting up lousy numbers because you don't have anyone to play with would get old real fast.

So I just don't see it happening.


I think I would gladly take those 4 1sts from Vegas. The team is a dumpster fire, and no way is Drai enough to save them. So, you get 4 1st rounders with super high odds to be #1, #2, #3 for 4 years in a row. wow :)

The new lottery may have killed the big offer sheets. Teams with the room to make the huge offers usually suck, but that risk of the 3 rounds of lottery, you can't ignore that. How embarrassing would it be to see 1 or 2 of the picks you gave turn into top 2 or 3 picks. Better be damn sure you got a franchise player for that risk.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 July 2017 08:51]


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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #697989 is a reply to message #697986 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 08:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 08:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 10:09

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 09:42

Hopefully not a jinx, but no serious offer sheet has been signed later than July 26th since the 90's. Only one was a 1.9M 1 year offer for Kesler after he had a 23 point season and Philly was looking for more power forwards because that's just what they did back then.

Really doubting an offer sheet is something Drai and his agent can argue at the table any more.


I think the chances of offer sheet are very low. It's something for the media to talk about, but the Oilers clearly have the room to match, so it would have to be ridiculous in order to have a chance of success...and that means massive risk to the other side if it doesn't get matched.

I don't expect Draisaitl to be at training camp to start this year. That's okay. It's just what happens in these negotiations.


I agree. I don't buy into the media idea that teams are going to throw out an offer sheet with no real intentions of wanting the player just to try and screw another team over. You have to work with these teams and that is no way to do business. If you offer sheet for Leon you are wanting to take him on. So in saying that, in order for you to actually have a chance of the Oilers the not matching, you have to throw him a crazy high offer. Probably pushing 9 or 10 mill. Leon is my second favorite Oiler but I am sorry, he's not a 9 mill player yet. Maybe he gets there but not now, not even close. His sample size is too small and you have to take into account him playing a huge amount of time with McDavid and the affect it probably had on his numbers. So you as a team can't be offer sheeting Leon and offering him 9 + mill and have him be potentially a 60 pt center, it would screw your team. Secondly, not a lot of teams can physically afford to take on Leon at the cap hit it would take to get him.

Vegas is probably one of the very few teams that maybe could do it. If I am not mistaken, the picks you have to give up have to be your own. So if you are a brand new team and you need to build an organization both with your NHL team and your system, can you really afford to give up that many high end draft picks for 1 player? I don't care what the Vegas brass says publicly, they know they will not be a good team for several years. Given who they drafted and the lame side deals they made to pass on actual good players, they will most definitely be a bad team getting high picks. So it just doesn't make sense. Plus if you are Leon and I know money talks but if you can get 50-60 mill from the Oilers, be set for life while being on a really good team, maybe winning a championship, is an extra 10 mill over a contract really worth being on a crap team losing and losing for years? After all, a team can offer him the contract but he has to physically accept it. So I would think the dollars would have to be A LOT more than what the Oilers would offer him to accept. Playing on a crap team, getting beat night after night, putting up lousy numbers because you don't have anyone to play with would get old real fast.

So I just don't see it happening.


I think I would gladly take those 4 1sts from Vegas. The team is a dumpster fire, and no way is Drai enough to save them. So, you get 4 1st rounders with super high odds to be #1, #2, #3 for 4 years in a row. wow :)

The new lottery may have killed the big offer sheets. Teams with the room to make the huge offers usually suck, but that risk of the 3 rounds of lottery, you can't ignore that. How embarrassing would it be to see 1 or 2 of the picks you gave turn into top 2 or 3 picks. Better be damn sure you got a franchise player for that risk.


I agree. Best case scenario, Vegas is only a bottom 5 team for the next couple of season. Worst case, they are a bottom 5 team for 4+ seasons. I am a huge fan of Leon and I think Leon will be a very good player but I wouldn't give up 3 or 4 lottery picks for him. He's one guy who can only play one position at a time. If you are drafting in the top 5, as long as you don't pick a Yakupov, you are drafting what should be sure fire top 6 guys or top 4 dmen. That means you are giving up potentially 3 or 4 impact players for 1 guy.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #698029 is a reply to message #685942 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Looks like the Preds just signed Johansen. That's another big one to loosely compare with Drai. Not seeing any details yet though.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #698041 is a reply to message #698029 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 13:56

Looks like the Preds just signed Johansen. That's another big one to loosely compare with Drai. Not seeing any details yet though.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/predators-sign-ryan-johan sen-long-term-contract/

...8 years, $64 million...




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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #698043 is a reply to message #698041 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 14:27

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 13:56

Looks like the Preds just signed Johansen. That's another big one to loosely compare with Drai. Not seeing any details yet though.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/predators-sign-ryan-johan sen-long-term-contract/

...8 years, $64 million...



https://media.tenor.com/images/b2e4bd535e1be034f4e2124d1f34517e/tenor.gif

Yeah, guessing Drai will be getting at least that then.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #698046 is a reply to message #698043 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The only thing about the Johansen contract is his contract except for 1 season, is ALL UFA years. I believe most players see their UFA years as when they cash in so that would play a part in his cap hit being 8 mill. For Leon, if he signed an 8 yr deal, he would only be giving up I think 3 UFA years. So that would play a part in his cap hit. Plus Johansen is a lot more proven than Leon is. So I would have to think that 8 would be the high end for Leon. There are just so many comparable contracts out there that says to me he shouldn't get more than 8.


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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #698047 is a reply to message #698046 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 15:04

The only thing about the Johansen contract is his contract except for 1 season, is ALL UFA years. I believe most players see their UFA years as when they cash in so that would play a part in his cap hit being 8 mill. For Leon, if he signed an 8 yr deal, he would only be giving up I think 3 UFA years. So that would play a part in his cap hit. Plus Johansen is a lot more proven than Leon is. So I would have to think that 8 would be the high end for Leon. There are just so many comparable contracts out there that says to me he shouldn't get more than 8.


If you make that argument with Drai though, does he come back and just say, "OK, then let's do a 2-3 year bridge".

Johansen had a couple underwhelming seasons during his bridge compared to his ELC years, and he still gets 8x8. If Drai has a couple more 70+ point seasons, he's probably looking at 10+ in a couple years on an 8 year deal, no?

I was on board with a bridge before, but this Johansen deal gives me pause. The next couple years may be full of 8-11M AAV deals, maybe Drai's case super easy to make for a huge payday after a bridge.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 July 2017 15:11]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #698050 is a reply to message #698047 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 15:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 15:04

The only thing about the Johansen contract is his contract except for 1 season, is ALL UFA years. I believe most players see their UFA years as when they cash in so that would play a part in his cap hit being 8 mill. For Leon, if he signed an 8 yr deal, he would only be giving up I think 3 UFA years. So that would play a part in his cap hit. Plus Johansen is a lot more proven than Leon is. So I would have to think that 8 would be the high end for Leon. There are just so many comparable contracts out there that says to me he shouldn't get more than 8.


If you make that argument with Drai though, does he come back and just say, "OK, then let's do a 2-3 year bridge".

Johansen had a couple underwhelming seasons during his bridge compared to his ELC years, and he still gets 8x8. If Drai has a couple more 70+ point seasons, he's probably looking at 10+ in a couple years on an 8 year deal, no?

I was on board with a bridge before, but this Johansen deal gives me pause. The next couple years may be full of 8-11M AAV deals, maybe Drai's case super easy to make for a huge payday after a bridge.


I am just listening to Gregor and Struds talk about the exact same thing. Struds made the point that if you are a 21 yr old and a team comes to you with a long term deal worth between 7-8 mill per season, it is really hard to turn that down. You can "bet" on yourself which might workout but it can also back fire. I am a huge Leon fan, I think he will be a 70+ pt center BUT how much of his points where playing with McDavid? Hard to say. He could have a couple more 70+ pt seasons but he could get injured or have a few 60 pts seasons. You just never know.



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 Re: McDavid and Drai Extensions [message #698051 is a reply to message #698050 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 15:22

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 15:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 15:04

The only thing about the Johansen contract is his contract except for 1 season, is ALL UFA years. I believe most players see their UFA years as when they cash in so that would play a part in his cap hit being 8 mill. For Leon, if he signed an 8 yr deal, he would only be giving up I think 3 UFA years. So that would play a part in his cap hit. Plus Johansen is a lot more proven than Leon is. So I would have to think that 8 would be the high end for Leon. There are just so many comparable contracts out there that says to me he shouldn't get more than 8.


If you make that argument with Drai though, does he come back and just say, "OK, then let's do a 2-3 year bridge".

Johansen had a couple underwhelming seasons during his bridge compared to his ELC years, and he still gets 8x8. If Drai has a couple more 70+ point seasons, he's probably looking at 10+ in a couple years on an 8 year deal, no?

I was on board with a bridge before, but this Johansen deal gives me pause. The next couple years may be full of 8-11M AAV deals, maybe Drai's case super easy to make for a huge payday after a bridge.


I am just listening to Gregor and Struds talk about the exact same thing. Struds made the point that if you are a 21 yr old and a team comes to you with a long term deal worth between 7-8 mill per season, it is really hard to turn that down. You can "bet" on yourself which might workout but it can also back fire. I am a huge Leon fan, I think he will be a 70+ pt center BUT how much of his points where playing with McDavid? Hard to say. He could have a couple more 70+ pt seasons but he could get injured or have a few 60 pts seasons. You just never know.


Yeah, lots of competing factors when you weigh a bridge vs just locking a guy up long term now.

One that I do worry about though that may not have come into play before is the dynamic shifting to money being given out more in a top heavy way. Almost like an NBA way. A shift that McDavid might have started where your top end guys get waaaay more than the lower tiers. There could be a big wave of massive paydays that pull the market up for top line players, and we could end up paying Drai way more than we could have today if we go the bridge route.



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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