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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696039 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:01

CrusaderPi
Messages: 13209
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

I'm marginally in favor of this trade. I don't think Eberle is the 1RW on an Oilers Stanley Cup team and the cap space gets them closer to finding one. I further don't believe Eberle is a driver of team success. Yes, it will be hard for Strome + 3 million in cap space to replace his production, but I have to believe it can be done.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696043 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:13

Suomalainen
Messages: 2887
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

2 Cups

Few thoughts.
Both players need a change of scenery, and Strome is 5 years younger than Eberle. I expect Ebs to light it up with his buddy Tavares, especially as JT might be feeling better. If Strome finds chemistry on the right side of McDavid or Leon, then this turns out to be a win

In a cap world, $$$ is like a player, so it definitely is Eberle for Strome + Cash. I'd like to think there were better players available, but if the cap saving wasn't there...

I'm fully expecting Russell back - not looking forward to the term+salary.

Does this mean a Spencer Foo signing?

97.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696045 is a reply to message #696043 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:25

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

If you are a 6 mill, right shooting, supposed goal scoring winger and you can't find a home on a PP that features McDavid and Draisaitl and it goes so badly the team has to put their 4th line, right shooting center in your spot and he scores 11 PP goals, we have an issue.

Letestu is no where near as offensively skilled as Eberle and all he had to do was stand in a spot and let McDavid and Leon feed him pucks and he scored 11 PP goals. Yet somehow, Eberle couldn't figure that out, that's a big time problem in my books.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696049 is a reply to message #696043 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:53

Rekkin
Messages: 328
Registered: September 2003
Location: Halfway 'tween Heaven and...

No Cups

Suomalainen wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 12:13

Few thoughts.
Both players need a change of scenery, and Strome is 5 years younger than Eberle. I expect Ebs to light it up with his buddy Tavares, especially as JT might be feeling better. If Strome finds chemistry on the right side of McDavid or Leon, then this turns out to be a win

In a cap world, $$$ is like a player, so it definitely is Eberle for Strome + Cash. I'd like to think there were better players available, but if the cap saving wasn't there...

I'm fully expecting Russell back - not looking forward to the term+salary.

Does this mean a Spencer Foo signing?

My gut tells me that Chiarelli thinks Foo is coming to Edmonton and perhaps by creating a hole on right wing it lets Foo know that he may be able to step right in. May be right wing by committee with Strome and maybe even Nuge cycling between wing and 3rd line center. Going to be interesting to see if Poolparty can make the jump as well.

The people you are sure are wrong are just as sure that you are wrong. The only difference is they're wrong. - God @TheTweetOfGod

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696046 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:41

eedok
Messages: 613
Registered: March 2010
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

When was the last time a trade with the Islanders worked in our favor?

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696058 is a reply to message #696046 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:04

oilfan94
Messages: 390
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

eedok wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:41

When was the last time a trade with the Islanders worked in our favor?

That Tommy Salo trade worked out pretty well for a while. Does it count if Milbury was the GM though?

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696047 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:42

oilerfan79
Messages: 68
Registered: August 2006
Location: Windsor Ontario

No Cups

I like this trade. You jettison a room temperature butter soft player that obviously lost interest. If you doubt it go back and watch his playoff performance. He was grossly under-performing compared to his contact and at 27 years of age it would not be wise to expect a huge turn around in those stats. He added nothing to this roster when he wasn't scoring and only seemed at least to my eye to score against weaker teams. He showed no chemistry with McDavid so he was never going to play on the top line here anymore, and he showed no chemistry with Draisaitl so he wasn't going to skate on the second line either. To pay 6 million to a third line winger is a recipe for failure in todays cap world. In return they get a bigger, faster and 5 year younger center/winger that plays a heavier style, who also I would think now has something to prove. All at 3.5 million less a year. Eberle is the better player as of today but I'm not sure the same will be said this time next year. Just like last year with Hall for Larsson, I believe we lost the trade but are winning the war.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696048 is a reply to message #696047 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:52

nullterm
Messages: 5313
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

He's decent size, scores goals, pucks on net and follows up by going TO the bet (doesn't curl away), makes plays, and fights. I find this acceptable. He's a good match for the type of player we want around 97 and 29.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 June 2017 12:54]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696050 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 12:58

Adam
Messages: 12977
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Always interesting to see how the official site spins news:

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/three-things-ryan-strome/c-2 90065046
https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/oilers-acquire-strome/c-2900 63376

Clearly, the talking points are that we save money, he was a high draft pick and might have some potential, and his brother played junior with Connor McDavid.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696053 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 13:43

smyth260
Messages: 2070
Registered: November 2007

2 Cups

Chia sold low. We are inside our window for a Stanley Cup and still trading away the best player in the deal, and to boot we got nothing extra in the deal. Just a straight up better player for a worse player... You should always be able to save on cap because of that logic. Better players get paid more than lesser players.

Better use that 3.5 million for something good Chia, we are a worse team today. Hall for Larsson made some sense, we needed a RD. But this is just a downgrade at RW and we didn't get anything on t

Clean house or bust

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696056 is a reply to message #696053 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:03

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

The 2 in a row Stanley Cup winners have how many wingers making 6 mill or more? They have 1 - Kessel who is a better player than Eberle. Connor Sheary who in 61 games had 23 goals, 53 pts is an RFA. Pro rate out his numbers and that is a 30 goal, 71pt season in 82 games. He has 2 cups. He is coming off his ELC where the make he could make was 925K. When he signs his new contract, he will get a big raise. Not a chance in hell he gets close to 6 mill. I bet he gets less than 5 mill. If money didn't matter, not a chance in hell the Pens would trade Eberle for Sheary.

So when I compare Eberle to Strome. Who do I think might score more points next season? Eberle but like I said, I don't think Eberle scores enough to justify his salary. Also in a cap world. If I can take the 6 mill that Eberle made and turn it into a forward and a dman, I think that is better value. Even if the Oilers do sign Russell for 4 mill. 4 mill for Russell plus 2.5 mill for Strome is 6.5 mill. So the Oilers for 500K more get 2 players rather than one Eberle. That is much better value to me.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 June 2017 14:12]

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696061 is a reply to message #696056 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

One thing is nice to hear. Based on what I read on twitter from the Edmonton media guys who talked to Strome, he's and I quote "ecstatic" and "at a loss for words" about the trade. So he should come in motivated at least.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696062 is a reply to message #696061 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:26

nullterm
Messages: 5313
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

The otherwise all smiles and super friendly David Amber puts an Oil fan in check on Twitter: "do you think GMs were beating down the door to get Eberle? He's been available for more than a year. Wake up"

Damn, David ain't wasting time.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696063 is a reply to message #696062 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:28

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

nullterm wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:26

The otherwise all smiles and super friendly David Amber puts an Oil fan in check on Twitter: "do you think GMs were beating down the door to get Eberle? He's been available for more than a year. Wake up"

Damn, David ain't wasting time.

Some validity to that comment. Last offseason it was out there and we all thought it would be one of Nuge or Eberle first. It ended up being Hall. So he has been available for a long time.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696104 is a reply to message #696061 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 19:20

g2k
Messages: 8718
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:22

One thing is nice to hear. Based on what I read on twitter from the Edmonton media guys who talked to Strome, he's and I quote "ecstatic" and "at a loss for words" about the trade. So he should come in motivated at least.

Odd. Players never say things like that after trades.

Most players would be "ecstatic" about coming to a team with a 20 year old Connor McDavid. Most players are indeed "at a loss for words" when surprised by a trade. I think that's the most common quote I hear actually.

I don't dislike Strome. I'm interested to see what he brings. I'm happy Eberle is no longer an Oiler. But I don't think the GM did very good on this trade. He could have gotten more. He's not a horrible GM. He's made some good moves, but I think he's a bit overrrated.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696064 is a reply to message #696056 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:30

Adam
Messages: 12977
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:03

I am just curious when people say the Oilers sold low and got a lesser player for Eberle. The 2 in a row Stanley Cup winners have how many wingers making 6 mill or more? They have 1 - Kessel who is a better player than Eberle. Connor Sheary who in 61 games had 23 goals, 53 pts is an RFA. Pro rate out his numbers and that is a 30 goal, 71pt season in 82 games. He has 2 cups. He is coming off his ELC where the make he could make was 925K. When he signs his new contract, he will get a big raise. Not a chance in hell he gets close to 6 mill. I bet he gets less than 5 mill. If money didn't matter, not a chance in hell the Pens would trade Eberle for Sheary.

The Penguins, as a perennial contender, have had to make several tough decisions on players who are coming up for big raises. This has meant dealing wingers like James Neal.

But they've dealt high and exacted a decent return - James Neal was deal for Hornqvist and Spaling. There was 8 points difference between the production of Neal and Hornqvist the season they were swapped, and they still managed to get the Predators to throw in a player coming off a 32 point season to even things up.

It has been a constant challenge for the Penguins to find and keep decent wingers, and we've seen them make deals again and again for guys to play that role. Roberts, Recchi, Satan, Guerin, Kunitz, Iginla, Kessel. Often on big money deals. Often at a high acquisition cost.

We've seen them sign small, skilled forwards out of college like Sheary and Guentzel - despite the fact that they're not big, they don't intimidate anyone and they really only have an offensive dynamic to their game.

Chicago has similarly looked for good wingers and dealt good wingers away as they became too expensive. When they dealt Brandon Saad, they exacted a lot of pieces out of Columbus, including Anisimov who's played a pretty big role for the 'Hawks. Anisimov had been hurt and had less points than Saad the season preceding the trade, so they made sure that Columbus added to the deal.

I am fine with trading Jordan Eberle if what you get for him makes the team better. But trading him straight up for a lesser player is just going backwards. It's once again Chiarelli getting stuck in the mindset that he needs to make a deal and not walking away from a bad one. We've seen it too many times in his short tenure with the Oilers.

He's also clearly signalling his moves too much. When every media guy in the league knows that he's shopping hard, then you have a good sense that he's desperate to make a deal, and everyone by now knows that if he puts his Panicky Pete hat on, it's game over for the Oilers.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696066 is a reply to message #696064 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:49

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:03

I am just curious when people say the Oilers sold low and got a lesser player for Eberle. The 2 in a row Stanley Cup winners have how many wingers making 6 mill or more? They have 1 - Kessel who is a better player than Eberle. Connor Sheary who in 61 games had 23 goals, 53 pts is an RFA. Pro rate out his numbers and that is a 30 goal, 71pt season in 82 games. He has 2 cups. He is coming off his ELC where the make he could make was 925K. When he signs his new contract, he will get a big raise. Not a chance in hell he gets close to 6 mill. I bet he gets less than 5 mill. If money didn't matter, not a chance in hell the Pens would trade Eberle for Sheary.

The Penguins, as a perennial contender, have had to make several tough decisions on players who are coming up for big raises. This has meant dealing wingers like James Neal.

But they've dealt high and exacted a decent return - James Neal was deal for Hornqvist and Spaling. There was 8 points difference between the production of Neal and Hornqvist the season they were swapped, and they still managed to get the Predators to throw in a player coming off a 32 point season to even things up.

It has been a constant challenge for the Penguins to find and keep decent wingers, and we've seen them make deals again and again for guys to play that role. Roberts, Recchi, Satan, Guerin, Kunitz, Iginla, Kessel. Often on big money deals. Often at a high acquisition cost.

We've seen them sign small, skilled forwards out of college like Sheary and Guentzel - despite the fact that they're not big, they don't intimidate anyone and they really only have an offensive dynamic to their game.

Chicago has similarly looked for good wingers and dealt good wingers away as they became too expensive. When they dealt Brandon Saad, they exacted a lot of pieces out of Columbus, including Anisimov who's played a pretty big role for the 'Hawks. Anisimov had been hurt and had less points than Saad the season preceding the trade, so they made sure that Columbus added to the deal.

I am fine with trading Jordan Eberle if what you get for him makes the team better. But trading him straight up for a lesser player is just going backwards. It's once again Chiarelli getting stuck in the mindset that he needs to make a deal and not walking away from a bad one. We've seen it too many times in his short tenure with the Oilers.

He's also clearly signalling his moves too much. When every media guy in the league knows that he's shopping hard, then you have a good sense that he's desperate to make a deal, and everyone by now knows that if he puts his Panicky Pete hat on, it's game over for the Oilers.

Are you able to see into the future? I am not trying to be a jerk, I am asking you a legit question because you are so confident in your statement that they Oilers traded for a lesser player. If all you base this trade on is straight up scoring to date, then the Islanders probably got the better player. But there is more to winning and a player than just scoring.

Plus do you know for sure that Eberle will severely outscore Strome? We all think that Eberle will "bounce back" and score what he usually does. So if Eberle scores 25 goals and 60 pts next year which is in his "usual" range and Strome scores close to 20 goals and 50 points, is that a massive down grade? I don't see it. What is going to happen is fans will complain if Eberle out scores Strome (which he probably will) and that is all they will look at. It won't matter to them that maybe Strome ends up being a better overall player for the Oilers because he's a bit bigger, faster, plays with more edge and has more versatility than Eberle. It won't matter to them that by freeing up 3.5 mill in cap space, it will help them prop up another area. It won't matter to them that on the Oilers, Eberle will play lower on the depth chart than on the Islanders. All fans will look at is the stats and say "see, see, stupid Oilers, Eberle is out scoring Strome.

I expect that Eberle will score a bit more than Strome because on the Islanders, Eberle will be on the top line on the top PP and play with the Isles best player in Tavares. If Eberle was still an Oiler, he wouldn't play with McDavid, he might not play with Draisaitl, he wouldn't be on the top unit PP and if you look at his minutes in the playoffs, he played less and less and was down to 3rd line mins.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696075 is a reply to message #696066 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:30

Adam
Messages: 12977
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:49

Are you able to see into the future? I am not trying to be a jerk, I am asking you a legit question because you are so confident in your statement that they Oilers traded for a lesser player. If all you base this trade on is straight up scoring to date, then the Islanders probably got the better player. But there is more to winning and a player than just scoring.

Plus do you know for sure that Eberle will severely outscore Strome? We all think that Eberle will "bounce back" and score what he usually does. So if Eberle scores 25 goals and 60 pts next year which is in his "usual" range and Strome scores close to 20 goals and 50 points, is that a massive down grade? I don't see it. What is going to happen is fans will complain if Eberle out scores Strome (which he probably will) and that is all they will look at. It won't matter to them that maybe Strome ends up being a better overall player for the Oilers because he's a bit bigger, faster, plays with more edge and has more versatility than Eberle. It won't matter to them that by freeing up 3.5 mill in cap space, it will help them prop up another area. It won't matter to them that on the Oilers, Eberle will play lower on the depth chart than on the Islanders. All fans will look at is the stats and say "see, see, stupid Oilers, Eberle is out scoring Strome.

I expect that Eberle will score a bit more than Strome because on the Islanders, Eberle will be on the top line on the top PP and play with the Isles best player in Tavares. If Eberle was still an Oiler, he wouldn't play with McDavid, he might not play with Draisaitl, he wouldn't be on the top unit PP and if you look at his minutes in the playoffs, he played less and less and was down to 3rd line mins.

Well, I wish I could see in to the future.

I don't really need to to tell you who's been the better player between Ryan Strome and Jordan Eberle though. I have four years of head-to-head stats. Here they are:

Jordan Eberle - 312 GP, 97G, 129A, 226Pts, 0.31 GPG, 0.72 PPG

Ryan Strome - 258 GP, 45G, 81A, 126Pts, 0.17 GPG, 0.49 PPG

Now, there's a whole hockey sub-culture that suggests that there's all these other traits that are just as important as scoring points, but especially for wingers, there's really nothing more paramount. Offence wins hockey games. Character, grit, and other non-measurable qualities? Well, most players that score points have to have a fair amount of them. No one scores 30 goals in a season by not having some level of intensity and effort level.

Eberle outscored Strome badly this year. It's not close. It was the worst season of Eberle's entire career and he still had more points than Strome did in his very best and TWENTY-ONE more than he had this season. Strome isn't a big bruiser who is going to be a beast in the corners. He's 6'1. He records less than a hit a game.

They are likely to play the same position, and he's a clear downgrade at that spot. If you were creating a wishlist on right wingers to play with Draisaitl and McDavid, it does seem that ability to score points would be a pretty key attribute. We now have brought in a player who puts up goals and points at just over half the rate.

We don't need the cap hit, despite all the media clowns talking up that point. We've got all kinds of cap space for this year, and there's other ways of creating room besides dealing the top-scoring winger on the team. If you're talking about cap hit for 2018-19? Then we have time to clear room for that, and Strome will himself be a restricted free agent by then.

This team is now in its window to win a Stanley Cup. We need players who make the team better, and Strome is not better than Eberle. Had the Oilers managed to get more than just a straight-up swap for a worse player, maybe you could justify it. I'm sure it was a little hard as a Penguins fan to see Neal leave there after the seasons he'd posted in Pittsburgh, but they managed to get two assets, and the key one was only a slight downgrade. For whatever reason, Chiarelli has been unable to get anything added to deals where he's giving up a clearly demonstrably better player. That suggests that other GMs have an edge in the negotiations against him - they know he'll cave given too much time to think about it - which is a major issue.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696084 is a reply to message #696075 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 16:06

Jakey
Messages: 205
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

You can't trade a player on a high year if he is lower than expectations & you truly believe he is not going to get much better considering the role he will play on your team.
Eberle was in decline, lost his spot on the top PP unit & at times wasn't even in the top 6, so selling now was pretty much a must. Waiting to see if he has a bounce back year when you know your coach isn't going to play him in the areas where he can gets a it of points is just dumb.

Todd M & Chairelli don't like his soft perimeter game & decided to sell now for a player who is at his lows as well, but is younger, cheaper, a bit bigger & is thought to be miscast because of the way the previous coach handled him (Capuano). When weight took over he slowly gave him more opportunity & they said, while he didn't score a ton, his confidence was starting to turn around.

The difference in this deal vs some other deals is that the Islanders are also selling low on Strome like we are on Eberle. He is thought to be a perennial top 6 forward with the cache' to be a top 3 forward if he realizes his potential. So really it is both teams selling low on each player. I think the difference is thought to be Strome has more upside & Eberle is basically what you see is what you get at a higher price tag.

Either way it was better to trade Eberle now than having another year of decline, & other GM's knowing they have you by the short & curly' because we would be smack up against the cap next summer if we didn't make this move.

I will take the wait and see approach & hopefully we get a nice bump in a trade like we saw in the Hall/Larson deal.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696086 is a reply to message #696084 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 16:09

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Jakey wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 16:06

You can't trade a player on a high year if he is lower than expectations & you truly believe he is not going to get much better considering the role he will play on your team.
Eberle was in decline, lost his spot on the top PP unit & at times wasn't even in the top 6, so selling now was pretty much a must. Waiting to see if he has a bounce back year when you know your coach isn't going to play him in the areas where he can gets a it of points is just dumb.

Todd M & Chairelli don't like his soft perimeter game & decided to sell now for a player who is at his lows as well, but is younger, cheaper, a bit bigger & is thought to be miscast because of the way the previous coach handled him (Capuano). When weight took over he slowly gave him more opportunity & they said, while he didn't score a ton, his confidence was starting to turn around.

The difference in this deal vs some other deals is that the Islanders are also selling low on Strome like we are on Eberle. He is thought to be a perennial top 6 forward with the cache' to be a top 3 forward if he realizes his potential. So really it is both teams selling low on each player. I think the difference is thought to be Strome has more upside & Eberle is basically what you see is what you get at a higher price tag.

Either way it was better to trade Eberle now than having another year of decline, & other GM's knowing they have you by the short & curly' because we would be smack up against the cap next summer if we didn't make this move.

I will take the wait and see approach & hopefully we get a nice bump in a trade like we saw in the Hall/Larson deal.

Good post man. icon_thumbsup

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696122 is a reply to message #696075 ]	Fri, 23 June 2017 07:12

oilerfan79
Messages: 68
Registered: August 2006
Location: Windsor Ontario

No Cups

You're 100% right Strome is not a bruiser but I'll bet you come playoff time next year Strome will not avoid contact he didn't initiate like Eberle did all playoffs long this year. Eberle is gone not because he didn't produce points but because he avoided any play that might lead to him taking a hit. You can not have players playing like that in the playoffs let alone a supposed leader on the team. The stanley cup is the hardest trophy in professional sports to win you have to make sacrifices and Eberle was not willing to do that.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696079 is a reply to message #696066 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:49

Goose
Messages: 2054
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 13:49

Are you able to see into the future? I am not trying to be a jerk, I am asking you a legit question because you are so confident in your statement that they Oilers traded for a lesser player. If all you base this trade on is straight up scoring to date, then the Islanders probably got the better player. But there is more to winning and a player than just scoring.

Plus do you know for sure that Eberle will severely outscore Strome? We all think that Eberle will "bounce back" and score what he usually does. So if Eberle scores 25 goals and 60 pts next year which is in his "usual" range and Strome scores close to 20 goals and 50 points, is that a massive down grade? I don't see it. What is going to happen is fans will complain if Eberle out scores Strome (which he probably will) and that is all they will look at. It won't matter to them that maybe Strome ends up being a better overall player for the Oilers because he's a bit bigger, faster, plays with more edge and has more versatility than Eberle. It won't matter to them that by freeing up 3.5 mill in cap space, it will help them prop up another area. It won't matter to them that on the Oilers, Eberle will play lower on the depth chart than on the Islanders. All fans will look at is the stats and say "see, see, stupid Oilers, Eberle is out scoring Strome.

I expect that Eberle will score a bit more than Strome because on the Islanders, Eberle will be on the top line on the top PP and play with the Isles best player in Tavares. If Eberle was still an Oiler, he wouldn't play with McDavid, he might not play with Draisaitl, he wouldn't be on the top unit PP and if you look at his minutes in the playoffs, he played less and less and was down to 3rd line mins.

Sure, but what are all these things that Strome does to contribute to winning? He hasn't been a penalty killer to this point in his career. He's not great defensively. His underlying numbers are terrible. He has shown zero ability to play against top competition. He's an average skater. His faceoff numbers are terrible, so I'm not sure that you can argue that he is providing any more versatility. He may be slightly more physical than Eberle, but he's hardly a power forward.

As you love to say, if he's not scoring then what is he bringing to the table?

I also love the mental gymnastics of you saying that it won't be fair to compare their point totals because Eberle will be playing higher in the lineup for the Islanders than he did for the Oilers. Except the exact same thing is true for Strome. And if he doesn't, if Strome plays a 3rd line role here, then he'll put up 30 points again and Eberle will double his production.

Eberle is a better player than Strome. Full stop. Love or hate the trade, I'm literally stunned that you're trying to make an argument that that may not be true.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696273 is a reply to message #696066 ]	Fri, 23 June 2017 15:28

McDavid97
Messages: 1012
Registered: July 2007

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:49

Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:03

I am just curious when people say the Oilers sold low and got a lesser player for Eberle. The 2 in a row Stanley Cup winners have how many wingers making 6 mill or more? They have 1 - Kessel who is a better player than Eberle. Connor Sheary who in 61 games had 23 goals, 53 pts is an RFA. Pro rate out his numbers and that is a 30 goal, 71pt season in 82 games. He has 2 cups. He is coming off his ELC where the make he could make was 925K. When he signs his new contract, he will get a big raise. Not a chance in hell he gets close to 6 mill. I bet he gets less than 5 mill. If money didn't matter, not a chance in hell the Pens would trade Eberle for Sheary.

The Penguins, as a perennial contender, have had to make several tough decisions on players who are coming up for big raises. This has meant dealing wingers like James Neal.

But they've dealt high and exacted a decent return - James Neal was deal for Hornqvist and Spaling. There was 8 points difference between the production of Neal and Hornqvist the season they were swapped, and they still managed to get the Predators to throw in a player coming off a 32 point season to even things up.

It has been a constant challenge for the Penguins to find and keep decent wingers, and we've seen them make deals again and again for guys to play that role. Roberts, Recchi, Satan, Guerin, Kunitz, Iginla, Kessel. Often on big money deals. Often at a high acquisition cost.

We've seen them sign small, skilled forwards out of college like Sheary and Guentzel - despite the fact that they're not big, they don't intimidate anyone and they really only have an offensive dynamic to their game.

Chicago has similarly looked for good wingers and dealt good wingers away as they became too expensive. When they dealt Brandon Saad, they exacted a lot of pieces out of Columbus, including Anisimov who's played a pretty big role for the 'Hawks. Anisimov had been hurt and had less points than Saad the season preceding the trade, so they made sure that Columbus added to the deal.

I am fine with trading Jordan Eberle if what you get for him makes the team better. But trading him straight up for a lesser player is just going backwards. It's once again Chiarelli getting stuck in the mindset that he needs to make a deal and not walking away from a bad one. We've seen it too many times in his short tenure with the Oilers.

He's also clearly signalling his moves too much. When every media guy in the league knows that he's shopping hard, then you have a good sense that he's desperate to make a deal, and everyone by now knows that if he puts his Panicky Pete hat on, it's game over for the Oilers.

Are you able to see into the future? I am not trying to be a jerk, I am asking you a legit question because you are so confident in your statement that they Oilers traded for a lesser player. If all you base this trade on is straight up scoring to date, then the Islanders probably got the better player. But there is more to winning and a player than just scoring.

Plus do you know for sure that Eberle will severely outscore Strome? We all think that Eberle will "bounce back" and score what he usually does. So if Eberle scores 25 goals and 60 pts next year which is in his "usual" range and Strome scores close to 20 goals and 50 points, is that a massive down grade? I don't see it. What is going to happen is fans will complain if Eberle out scores Strome (which he probably will) and that is all they will look at. It won't matter to them that maybe Strome ends up being a better overall player for the Oilers because he's a bit bigger, faster, plays with more edge and has more versatility than Eberle. It won't matter to them that by freeing up 3.5 mill in cap space, it will help them prop up another area. It won't matter to them that on the Oilers, Eberle will play lower on the depth chart than on the Islanders. All fans will look at is the stats and say "see, see, stupid Oilers, Eberle is out scoring Strome.

I expect that Eberle will score a bit more than Strome because on the Islanders, Eberle will be on the top line on the top PP and play with the Isles best player in Tavares. If Eberle was still an Oiler, he wouldn't play with McDavid, he might not play with Draisaitl, he wouldn't be on the top unit PP and if you look at his minutes in the playoffs, he played less and less and was down to 3rd line mins.

Do you actually use any stats when you talk or just have opinions or opinions that come from someone else?

Eberle had the highest time on ice of any right winger last year. There is a 4 minute 20 second gap between him and the next RW. Where does that become the 3rd line minutes, maybe a small sample size of games in the playoffs but all season it showed to be the number 1 RW but magically will be #3 if he was here to start the season.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696068 is a reply to message #696064 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 14:58

sloiler
Messages: 131
Registered: October 2005
Location: Enemy Territory (near Cal...

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player for player yes we lost the trade. But in the long run we may well be winners of the trade.

I think that we can all agree that Edmonton would need to shed at least one of the $6M salaries before McDavid's payday. So if we kept Eberle for another season and he performed like last year, Chia is then stuck with an over paid, soft as butter, under performing Right winger, who he has to get rid of to stay under the cap. What do you think the return would be then.

I have a feeling that there is more in the makings, Chia is a better GM than anyone on this board, and like another poster said, people weren't banging the door down for Eberle. The trade is what it is, we ended up with $3.5M cap space and we chased this years whipping boy out of town.

I have this feeling that Nuge is going to be gone this offseason too. But that is just my feelings.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696069 is a reply to message #696068 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:11

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

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sloiler wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:58

player for player yes we lost the trade. But in the long run we may well be winners of the trade.

I think that we can all agree that Edmonton would need to shed at least one of the $6M salaries before McDavid's payday. So if we kept Eberle for another season and he performed like last year, Chia is then stuck with an over paid, soft as butter, under performing Right winger, who he has to get rid of to stay under the cap. What do you think the return would be then.

I have a feeling that there is more in the makings, Chia is a better GM than anyone on this board, and like another poster said, people weren't banging the door down for Eberle. The trade is what it is, we ended up with $3.5M cap space and we chased this years whipping boy out of town.

I have this feeling that Nuge is going to be gone this offseason too. But that is just my feelings.

Would you do Nuge for Faulk from the Canes? They just brought in another right shot dman in Van Riemsdyk. They are loaded on defense but need offense. I think you'd have to sweeten the pot for Faulk as he's on a good contract but he'd be that second pairing, right shot, PP guy the Oilers could use. I'd take Faulk all day long over Barrie. Probably wishful thinking.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696071 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:16

ziltoid
Messages: 289
Registered: January 2011

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I supported, and still support, the Hall-Larsson trade; however, I cannot, at this time, support this trade. That said, this trade can potentially be a good one if the following criteria are met:

(1) Strome produces more as an Oiler than Ebs did (on average).

(2) Strome is then signed to a deal that is less than 6MM/year.

(3) Strome then continues to produce more than Ebs did (on average).

That is a high bar to clear; I genuinely hope Strome clears it, but I am not holding my breath.

If Chia turns around and uses the cap he saved by dealing Ebs to sign Russel to a bad deal, then the Ebs-Strome deal gets even worse.

I was a big fan of hiring Chia, and so far he has gotten a passing grade from me. But from the verbal going around the rumour mill, combined with this trade, I am concerned he is going to blow what is, arguably, the most important off-season this team has had in decades.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696073 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:24

Ragnarok73
Messages: 7096
Registered: February 2011

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All I had to do was to read the HFOil thread on this trade to come back and realize that this board is a zillion times more moderate than the Chicken Little gallery that are whining about the deal over there. Seriously, though, let's just step back, take a deep breath, and wait to see what other moves Chia makes before we decide that this deal was a complete bust.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696074 is a reply to message #696073 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:28

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

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Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 15:24

All I had to do was to read the HFOil thread on this trade to come back and realize that this board is a zillion times more moderate than the Chicken Little gallery that are whining about the deal over there. Seriously, though, let's just step back, take a deep breath, and wait to see what other moves Chia makes before we decide that this deal was a complete bust.

I agree. I think people get 2 caught up in the player for player part and they just look at only the offensive stats. The Oilers need Strome to score come of course but what other things will be bring that maybe Eberle doesn't? Does he make the Oilers a more balanced team? Can he bring more flexibility to the Oilers. What does the extra cap space do for the Oilers. Can the keep someone in a season from now they wouldn't have been able too. Can they bring in someone else. There are so many factors to consider.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696078 is a reply to message #696074 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:48

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/dealing-jordan-eberle-lon g-necessary-edmonton-oilers/

Article from Spec about the Eberle trade. Pretty much tells it as it is. People can complain all they want but it was a trade that had to happen at some point.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696080 is a reply to message #696078 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:56

Goose
Messages: 2054
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:48

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/dealing-jordan-eberle-lon g-necessary-edmonton-oilers/

Article from Spec about the Eberle trade. Pretty much tells it as it is. People can complain all they want but it was a trade that had to happen at some point.

That was as painful to read as I expected. Glad to see the MSM is already paving the way for Nuge to be traded for Cody Eakin next year.

Spector's main point is that good teams only get to pay two star forwards. Kane/Toews, Crosby/Malkin. Hossa, Panarin, Kessel, and I'm sure there have been other high priced forwards on those teams through the years, would beg to differ. It's just such lazy, garbage writing.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696081 is a reply to message #696078 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 15:58

Adam
Messages: 12977
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 15:48

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/dealing-jordan-eberle-lon g-necessary-edmonton-oilers/

Article from Spec about the Eberle trade. Pretty much tells it as it is. People can complain all they want but it was a trade that had to happen at some point.

I don't respect Spector's opinion about hockey. He's literally the laziest sports reporter I've ever seen. He does absolutely no digging, doesn't understand any underlying numbers (and doesn't try to) and rarely even does normal beat guy things like go to the practices. He regularly is teased for this by other members of the sports media in Edmonton. I doubt he even bothers to read what other people write about the team.

Basically, the team gives him talking points, or he has a sarcastic take designed to create negative response from one fan base or another.

So using him to defend a trade? Well, it's weak and lazy - like all of Spector's analysis.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696083 is a reply to message #696081 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 16:06

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

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Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 15:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 15:48

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/dealing-jordan-eberle-lon g-necessary-edmonton-oilers/

Article from Spec about the Eberle trade. Pretty much tells it as it is. People can complain all they want but it was a trade that had to happen at some point.

I don't respect Spector's opinion about hockey. He's literally the laziest sports reporter I've ever seen. He does absolutely no digging, doesn't understand any underlying numbers (and doesn't try to) and rarely even does normal beat guy things like go to the practices. He regularly is teased for this by other members of the sports media in Edmonton. I doubt he even bothers to read what other people write about the team.

Basically, the team gives him talking points, or he has a sarcastic take designed to create negative response from one fan base or another.

So using him to defend a trade? Well, it's weak and lazy - like all of Spector's analysis.

So because I don't disagree with you, now I am weak and lazy? Thanks for keeping the conversation civil.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696085 is a reply to message #696083 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 16:08

Adam
Messages: 12977
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 16:06

So because I don't disagree with you, now I am weak and lazy? Thanks for keeping the conversation civil.

Nah, I meant the argument that Spec says it's true is a lazy one and not one that has much merit.

You're neither weak nor lazy, and I do appreciate your dissenting viewpoint, even if I think you're wrong. It gives me more to respond to in here.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe ~~#FireChiarelli~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland ~~#FireTippett~~

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696095 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 17:39

mightyreasoner
Messages: 2367
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

A few thoughts on this:

Positives:
- This is a RW hat has put up 50 points, and it isn't out of the realm of possibility to think he will again, especially with McDavid.
- Strome is cheap, young, and has a lot of years of RFA left.
- Strome and McDavid have some familiarity off-ice. Strome's brother played on McDavid's wing in Erie.
- The Oilers cleared some cap space, and still kept a Top-6 RW in the organization.

Negatives:
- Eberle is the better player, and there isn't much debate. He worst season tops Strome's best to date.
- This is McDavid's last year of the ELC. They had the cap space for one more year, and could have afforded to dress the best lineup possible for THIS season.
- The trade didn't address the hardest hole and the one the Oilers have been trying to fill forever - Top-4 RHD. It was wing for wing, and look at UFA, it's much easier to fill RWs at a cheap rate than it is to fill Top-4 RHD. It wasn't the position most needed. (Maybe RNH is now the chip to do that.)

Other thoughts:
- We saw that Eberle wasn't a fit on McDavid's wing. Maybe Strome will be. One can hope. It would be great to see McDavid and Strome in the NHL replicate what McDavid and Strome did in the OHL.
- As it stands today, the Oilers are not a better team as a result of this trade, but... there is thhe potential for them to come out of this as a better team. A lot will depend on how that cap space is spent (hint: not Kris Russell), and what other moves are made. We will know better in a week or two.
- There was an argument that if Eberle had a rebound season he would be worth more next summer. Next summer he is one year from UFA; I'm not sure that even with a bounce back season he would have more trade value. This might have been it. The better argument is that they could afford him this year and that they should have iced the better lineup.
- He can play both C and RW, which is nice. It sounds like he is much better at RW, but it is a nice option in-game if they want to shift Draisaitl up to RW.
-Eberle was fast approaching UFA, and the Oilers couldn't re-sign. It was this summer or next; they got back a Top-6 RW that is young, cheap, and has some time until UFA, but he isn't the best player in this trade.
-Ryan Strome is a better return than Cody Eakin.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696103 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 19:16

Kr55
Messages: 17298
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Just putting my head down and hoping for the best. I enjoy defending Chia sometimes (part trolling, part because I really have no choice but to hope for the best cause we have no control), but no motivation for this move. Didn't have to trade Ebs yet, not even in terms of the next season, had the draft and all summer to move him for a team desperate for some offense. I can be convinced that the Hall to Larsson trade could have been fair value given the market, but this was not fair value any way you slice it. Our hands were not tied with the cap this coming year, and lots of teams have cap space to take Eberle on. There is no way this was the best deal that could have been had this summer.

Anyways. Just gonna pray now for no long term Russel deal for 4M+.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696108 is a reply to message #695964 ]	Thu, 22 June 2017 21:36

overdue
Messages: 727
Registered: October 2014

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I was critical of Eberle's play for most of the season and then came the playoffs. He wasn't even close to being able to earning that 6 mil per season and never did deserve it as far as I'm concerned. Frees up money for other players and how do you not fit in and be able to score playing with McDavid given all the talent he has. He quit on the team. I welcome a younger and hopefully enthusiastic Strome who will bring more than one dimension. The A will be worn by someone more deserving.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696127 is a reply to message #696108 ]	Fri, 23 June 2017 08:45

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

I find it always surprising when I see people who honestly think the Oilers could get a boat load for a guy like Eberle. I am going to make my points one more time just to feel better then I am walking away from the Eberle debate.
- This isn't the 90's and early 2000's where teams could pack on the salary and not worry about it. Cap space is considered AN ASSET. 3.5 mill in cap space is a SIGNIFICANT asset to get back. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. If you wanted more in the way of players or picks along with Strome then the Oilers would have had to retain salary. That's a fact. Teams these days actually trade picks and players to other teams just so they take bad contracts back to get cap space. Go look at what Vegas got back for Clarkson.
- The Oilers have had Eberle on the block since then end of the last season and tried to trade him before they dealt Hall. So ANY team could have stepped up and took him even before he had his crappy season and playoffs. NO ONE DID.
- Eberle is a small, not tough, zero physical play, not hard to play against, not overly strong, loses puck battles, suspect defensively, at times lacks compete, not a great skating winger who can't one time the puck, doesn't have a good outside shot who makes 6 million dollars. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and he's scored 30 ONCE. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and put up points and he somehow couldn't figure out how to play on the wing with McDavid. All he had to do was don't go offside, not over handle the puck, get into a shooting position, be ready to shoot and when McDavid threads the pass through people's skates, shoot quickly. He couldn't figure that out. He spent almost 1/4 of the season McDavid's wing and he couldn't figure it out. Maroon figured out that all he had to do was go to the net and stand there and McDavid would find him and he scored 27 GOALS. When you make 6 mill and the only thing you do for your team is create offense and you can't figure out how to score with a 100 pt, current Art Ross, Hart and Ted Lindsey winner, there is a BIG problem.
- Eberle was supposedly the Oilers BEST right winner. He was supposedly their BEST goal scorer and shooter. He was one of their few right handed shots. His bread and butter is to score goals and put up points. He was paid 6 mill to do that. Yet somehow, a guy who only brings offense and is a right shot, couldn't figure out how to play on the Oilers PP with McDavid and Draisaitl feeding pucks. All he had to do was sit in a spot, wait for the pass and shoot the freaking puck and he'd score. He couldn't do that. He's paid 6 mill to do what I described and he couldn't figure out that when McDavid or Leon passes you the puck, you don't screw around with the puck, you don't dust it off, you fire it. He was SO bad, the Oilers were forced to take their supposed best goal scoring right winger off the PP and replace him with their right shooting 4th LINE CENTER. That 4th line center scored 11 PP goals because he figured out that all he had to do was stand in a spot, wait for a pass and shoot the puck. Letestu doesn't have a BOMB, he just shot the puck quickly and didn't screw around with it and he scored 11 PP goals.

So people can come at me, bash me, make fun of me all you want. But I am sorry, if you make 6 mill and you got that 6 mill to score goals and points and you can't figure out that all you have to do 5 on 5 and on the PP when playing with the best offensive player in the league is to find a spot, shoot quickly and you will score goals, that is a massive, massive problem and you need to go. People can say that he would bounce back if he was with the Oilers. I turn that around and say how? Not a chance in hell he would have been on McDavid's wing. They tried that, he blew it. Not a chance in hell he plays with Leon. They tried that a bit, it didn't work plus since Eberle can't score with McDavid, someone has too so they may have kept Leon on McDavid's wing. Not a chance in hell he would have been on the #1 PP, they tried it, he blew it. So in all likelihood he would have been on the second unit PP like he was last year, probably playing with Nuge getting less mins like he was in the playoffs.

Anyway, I have said my piece, I am done. Thanks for the memories Eberle, you left me with some good ones. I will keep track of you, I hope you do well. I had hoped that you would have been one of the guys to take my team to the promise land but like Hall, it wasn't meant to be. All the best Eberle.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696129 is a reply to message #696127 ]	Fri, 23 June 2017 08:50

Kr55
Messages: 17298
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 08:45

I find it always surprising when I see people who honestly think the Oilers could get a boat load for a guy like Eberle. I am going to make my points one more time just to feel better then I am walking away from the Eberle debate.
- This isn't the 90's and early 2000's where teams could pack on the salary and not worry about it. Cap space is considered AN ASSET. 3.5 mill in cap space is a SIGNIFICANT asset to get back. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. If you wanted more in the way of players or picks along with Strome then the Oilers would have had to retain salary. That's a fact. Teams these days actually trade picks and players to other teams just so they take bad contracts back to get cap space. Go look at what Vegas got back for Clarkson.
- The Oilers have had Eberle on the block since then end of the last season and tried to trade him before they dealt Hall. So ANY team could have stepped up and took him even before he had his crappy season and playoffs. NO ONE DID.
- Eberle is a small, not tough, zero physical play, not hard to play against, not overly strong, loses puck battles, suspect defensively, at times lacks compete, not a great skating winger who can't one time the puck, doesn't have a good outside shot who makes 6 million dollars. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and he's scored 30 ONCE. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and put up points and he somehow couldn't figure out how to play on the wing with McDavid. All he had to do was don't go offside, not over handle the puck, get into a shooting position, be ready to shoot and when McDavid threads the pass through people's skates, shoot quickly. He couldn't figure that out. He spent almost 1/4 of the season McDavid's wing and he couldn't figure it out. Maroon figured out that all he had to do was go to the net and stand there and McDavid would find him and he scored 27 GOALS. When you make 6 mill and the only thing you do for your team is create offense and you can't figure out how to score with a 100 pt, current Art Ross, Hart and Ted Lindsey winner, there is a BIG problem.
- Eberle was supposedly the Oilers BEST right winner. He was supposedly their BEST goal scorer and shooter. He was one of their few right handed shots. His bread and butter is to score goals and put up points. He was paid 6 mill to do that. Yet somehow, a guy who only brings offense and is a right shot, couldn't figure out how to play on the Oilers PP with McDavid and Draisaitl feeding pucks. All he had to do was sit in a spot, wait for the pass and shoot the freaking puck and he'd score. He couldn't do that. He's paid 6 mill to do what I described and he couldn't figure out that when McDavid or Leon passes you the puck, you don't screw around with the puck, you don't dust it off, you fire it. He was SO bad, the Oilers were forced to take their supposed best goal scoring right winger off the PP and replace him with their right shooting 4th LINE CENTER. That 4th line center scored 11 PP goals because he figured out that all he had to do was stand in a spot, wait for a pass and shoot the puck. Letestu doesn't have a BOMB, he just shot the puck quickly and didn't screw around with it and he scored 11 PP goals.

So people can come at me, bash me, make fun of me all you want. But I am sorry, if you make 6 mill and you got that 6 mill to score goals and points and you can't figure out that all you have to do 5 on 5 and on the PP when playing with the best offensive player in the league is to find a spot, shoot quickly and you will score goals, that is a massive, massive problem and you need to go. People can say that he would bounce back if he was with the Oilers. I turn that around and say how? Not a chance in hell he would have been on McDavid's wing. They tried that, he blew it. Not a chance in hell he plays with Leon. They tried that a bit, it didn't work plus since Eberle can't score with McDavid, someone has too so they may have kept Leon on McDavid's wing. Not a chance in hell he would have been on the #1 PP, they tried it, he blew it. So in all likelihood he would have been on the second unit PP like he was last year, probably playing with Nuge getting less mins like he was in the playoffs.

Anyway, I have said my piece, I am done. Thanks for the memories Eberle, you left me with some good ones. I will keep track of you, I hope you do well. I had hoped that you would have been one of the guys to take my team to the promise land but like Hall, it wasn't meant to be. All the best Eberle.

At the very least he is a very productive regular season player. Lots of teams just want to get to the playoffs period to keep fan interest and some extra revenue. As much as we can bash his lack of physicality, lots of guys get by in the NHL without getting touched often. Ebs can help a team make the playoffs. There is lots of value in that. Very few teams in the league are trying to make minor tweaks to try to flip players for proven playoff performers, and even when you try to do that, it rarely actually works out.

Really think Chia pulled the trigger way too soon here. The RW free agent market is weak this year.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696135 is a reply to message #696129 ]	Fri, 23 June 2017 09:14

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 08:45

I find it always surprising when I see people who honestly think the Oilers could get a boat load for a guy like Eberle. I am going to make my points one more time just to feel better then I am walking away from the Eberle debate.
- This isn't the 90's and early 2000's where teams could pack on the salary and not worry about it. Cap space is considered AN ASSET. 3.5 mill in cap space is a SIGNIFICANT asset to get back. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. If you wanted more in the way of players or picks along with Strome then the Oilers would have had to retain salary. That's a fact. Teams these days actually trade picks and players to other teams just so they take bad contracts back to get cap space. Go look at what Vegas got back for Clarkson.
- The Oilers have had Eberle on the block since then end of the last season and tried to trade him before they dealt Hall. So ANY team could have stepped up and took him even before he had his crappy season and playoffs. NO ONE DID.
- Eberle is a small, not tough, zero physical play, not hard to play against, not overly strong, loses puck battles, suspect defensively, at times lacks compete, not a great skating winger who can't one time the puck, doesn't have a good outside shot who makes 6 million dollars. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and he's scored 30 ONCE. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and put up points and he somehow couldn't figure out how to play on the wing with McDavid. All he had to do was don't go offside, not over handle the puck, get into a shooting position, be ready to shoot and when McDavid threads the pass through people's skates, shoot quickly. He couldn't figure that out. He spent almost 1/4 of the season McDavid's wing and he couldn't figure it out. Maroon figured out that all he had to do was go to the net and stand there and McDavid would find him and he scored 27 GOALS. When you make 6 mill and the only thing you do for your team is create offense and you can't figure out how to score with a 100 pt, current Art Ross, Hart and Ted Lindsey winner, there is a BIG problem.
- Eberle was supposedly the Oilers BEST right winner. He was supposedly their BEST goal scorer and shooter. He was one of their few right handed shots. His bread and butter is to score goals and put up points. He was paid 6 mill to do that. Yet somehow, a guy who only brings offense and is a right shot, couldn't figure out how to play on the Oilers PP with McDavid and Draisaitl feeding pucks. All he had to do was sit in a spot, wait for the pass and shoot the freaking puck and he'd score. He couldn't do that. He's paid 6 mill to do what I described and he couldn't figure out that when McDavid or Leon passes you the puck, you don't screw around with the puck, you don't dust it off, you fire it. He was SO bad, the Oilers were forced to take their supposed best goal scoring right winger off the PP and replace him with their right shooting 4th LINE CENTER. That 4th line center scored 11 PP goals because he figured out that all he had to do was stand in a spot, wait for a pass and shoot the puck. Letestu doesn't have a BOMB, he just shot the puck quickly and didn't screw around with it and he scored 11 PP goals.

So people can come at me, bash me, make fun of me all you want. But I am sorry, if you make 6 mill and you got that 6 mill to score goals and points and you can't figure out that all you have to do 5 on 5 and on the PP when playing with the best offensive player in the league is to find a spot, shoot quickly and you will score goals, that is a massive, massive problem and you need to go. People can say that he would bounce back if he was with the Oilers. I turn that around and say how? Not a chance in hell he would have been on McDavid's wing. They tried that, he blew it. Not a chance in hell he plays with Leon. They tried that a bit, it didn't work plus since Eberle can't score with McDavid, someone has too so they may have kept Leon on McDavid's wing. Not a chance in hell he would have been on the #1 PP, they tried it, he blew it. So in all likelihood he would have been on the second unit PP like he was last year, probably playing with Nuge getting less mins like he was in the playoffs.

Anyway, I have said my piece, I am done. Thanks for the memories Eberle, you left me with some good ones. I will keep track of you, I hope you do well. I had hoped that you would have been one of the guys to take my team to the promise land but like Hall, it wasn't meant to be. All the best Eberle.

At the very least he is a very productive regular season player. Lots of teams just want to get to the playoffs period to keep fan interest and some extra revenue. As much as we can bash his lack of physicality, lots of guys get by in the NHL without getting touched often. Ebs can help a team make the playoffs. There is lots of value in that. Very few teams in the league are trying to make minor tweaks to try to flip players for proven playoff performers, and even when you try to do that, it rarely actually works out.

Really think Chia pulled the trigger way too soon here. The RW free agent market is weak this year.

How many big trades get made after July 1? Typically very few. Trading a 6 mill player is a big trade. If a team is going to make a move, they usually make it at the draft or just after the draft. They do that so once July 1 hits, they know where they are at money wise. So if they didn't do it now, I doubt it happens at all this year, Then what? Islanders go out, go get someone else, this trade is gone, then you are trading Eberle for picks next year.

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696136 is a reply to message #696135 ]	Fri, 23 June 2017 09:16

Kr55
Messages: 17298
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 09:14

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 08:45

I find it always surprising when I see people who honestly think the Oilers could get a boat load for a guy like Eberle. I am going to make my points one more time just to feel better then I am walking away from the Eberle debate.
- This isn't the 90's and early 2000's where teams could pack on the salary and not worry about it. Cap space is considered AN ASSET. 3.5 mill in cap space is a SIGNIFICANT asset to get back. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. If you wanted more in the way of players or picks along with Strome then the Oilers would have had to retain salary. That's a fact. Teams these days actually trade picks and players to other teams just so they take bad contracts back to get cap space. Go look at what Vegas got back for Clarkson.
- The Oilers have had Eberle on the block since then end of the last season and tried to trade him before they dealt Hall. So ANY team could have stepped up and took him even before he had his crappy season and playoffs. NO ONE DID.
- Eberle is a small, not tough, zero physical play, not hard to play against, not overly strong, loses puck battles, suspect defensively, at times lacks compete, not a great skating winger who can't one time the puck, doesn't have a good outside shot who makes 6 million dollars. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and he's scored 30 ONCE. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and put up points and he somehow couldn't figure out how to play on the wing with McDavid. All he had to do was don't go offside, not over handle the puck, get into a shooting position, be ready to shoot and when McDavid threads the pass through people's skates, shoot quickly. He couldn't figure that out. He spent almost 1/4 of the season McDavid's wing and he couldn't figure it out. Maroon figured out that all he had to do was go to the net and stand there and McDavid would find him and he scored 27 GOALS. When you make 6 mill and the only thing you do for your team is create offense and you can't figure out how to score with a 100 pt, current Art Ross, Hart and Ted Lindsey winner, there is a BIG problem.
- Eberle was supposedly the Oilers BEST right winner. He was supposedly their BEST goal scorer and shooter. He was one of their few right handed shots. His bread and butter is to score goals and put up points. He was paid 6 mill to do that. Yet somehow, a guy who only brings offense and is a right shot, couldn't figure out how to play on the Oilers PP with McDavid and Draisaitl feeding pucks. All he had to do was sit in a spot, wait for the pass and shoot the freaking puck and he'd score. He couldn't do that. He's paid 6 mill to do what I described and he couldn't figure out that when McDavid or Leon passes you the puck, you don't screw around with the puck, you don't dust it off, you fire it. He was SO bad, the Oilers were forced to take their supposed best goal scoring right winger off the PP and replace him with their right shooting 4th LINE CENTER. That 4th line center scored 11 PP goals because he figured out that all he had to do was stand in a spot, wait for a pass and shoot the puck. Letestu doesn't have a BOMB, he just shot the puck quickly and didn't screw around with it and he scored 11 PP goals.

So people can come at me, bash me, make fun of me all you want. But I am sorry, if you make 6 mill and you got that 6 mill to score goals and points and you can't figure out that all you have to do 5 on 5 and on the PP when playing with the best offensive player in the league is to find a spot, shoot quickly and you will score goals, that is a massive, massive problem and you need to go. People can say that he would bounce back if he was with the Oilers. I turn that around and say how? Not a chance in hell he would have been on McDavid's wing. They tried that, he blew it. Not a chance in hell he plays with Leon. They tried that a bit, it didn't work plus since Eberle can't score with McDavid, someone has too so they may have kept Leon on McDavid's wing. Not a chance in hell he would have been on the #1 PP, they tried it, he blew it. So in all likelihood he would have been on the second unit PP like he was last year, probably playing with Nuge getting less mins like he was in the playoffs.

Anyway, I have said my piece, I am done. Thanks for the memories Eberle, you left me with some good ones. I will keep track of you, I hope you do well. I had hoped that you would have been one of the guys to take my team to the promise land but like Hall, it wasn't meant to be. All the best Eberle.

At the very least he is a very productive regular season player. Lots of teams just want to get to the playoffs period to keep fan interest and some extra revenue. As much as we can bash his lack of physicality, lots of guys get by in the NHL without getting touched often. Ebs can help a team make the playoffs. There is lots of value in that. Very few teams in the league are trying to make minor tweaks to try to flip players for proven playoff performers, and even when you try to do that, it rarely actually works out.

Really think Chia pulled the trigger way too soon here. The RW free agent market is weak this year.

How many big trades get made after July 1? Typically very few. Trading a 6 mill player is a big trade. If a team is going to make a move, they usually make it at the draft or just after the draft. They do that so once July 1 hits, they know where they are at money wise. So if they didn't do it now, I doubt it happens at all this year, Then what? Islanders go out, go get someone else, this trade is gone, then you are trading Eberle for picks next year.

Could be right. I just find this return so underwhelming that I feel very confident that a better move could have been made. If this was the best we could do...might have been better to just stand pat for now.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

Report message to a moderator

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Re: Eberle for Strome [message #696139 is a reply to message #696136 ]	Fri, 23 June 2017 09:35

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 09:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 09:14

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 08:45

I find it always surprising when I see people who honestly think the Oilers could get a boat load for a guy like Eberle. I am going to make my points one more time just to feel better then I am walking away from the Eberle debate.
- This isn't the 90's and early 2000's where teams could pack on the salary and not worry about it. Cap space is considered AN ASSET. 3.5 mill in cap space is a SIGNIFICANT asset to get back. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. If you wanted more in the way of players or picks along with Strome then the Oilers would have had to retain salary. That's a fact. Teams these days actually trade picks and players to other teams just so they take bad contracts back to get cap space. Go look at what Vegas got back for Clarkson.
- The Oilers have had Eberle on the block since then end of the last season and tried to trade him before they dealt Hall. So ANY team could have stepped up and took him even before he had his crappy season and playoffs. NO ONE DID.
- Eberle is a small, not tough, zero physical play, not hard to play against, not overly strong, loses puck battles, suspect defensively, at times lacks compete, not a great skating winger who can't one time the puck, doesn't have a good outside shot who makes 6 million dollars. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and he's scored 30 ONCE. This is a guy who's only job is to score goals and put up points and he somehow couldn't figure out how to play on the wing with McDavid. All he had to do was don't go offside, not over handle the puck, get into a shooting position, be ready to shoot and when McDavid threads the pass through people's skates, shoot quickly. He couldn't figure that out. He spent almost 1/4 of the season McDavid's wing and he couldn't figure it out. Maroon figured out that all he had to do was go to the net and stand there and McDavid would find him and he scored 27 GOALS. When you make 6 mill and the only thing you do for your team is create offense and you can't figure out how to score with a 100 pt, current Art Ross, Hart and Ted Lindsey winner, there is a BIG problem.
- Eberle was supposedly the Oilers BEST right winner. He was supposedly their BEST goal scorer and shooter. He was one of their few right handed shots. His bread and butter is to score goals and put up points. He was paid 6 mill to do that. Yet somehow, a guy who only brings offense and is a right shot, couldn't figure out how to play on the Oilers PP with McDavid and Draisaitl feeding pucks. All he had to do was sit in a spot, wait for the pass and shoot the freaking puck and he'd score. He couldn't do that. He's paid 6 mill to do what I described and he couldn't figure out that when McDavid or Leon passes you the puck, you don't screw around with the puck, you don't dust it off, you fire it. He was SO bad, the Oilers were forced to take their supposed best goal scoring right winger off the PP and replace him with their right shooting 4th LINE CENTER. That 4th line center scored 11 PP goals because he figured out that all he had to do was stand in a spot, wait for a pass and shoot the puck. Letestu doesn't have a BOMB, he just shot the puck quickly and didn't screw around with it and he scored 11 PP goals.

So people can come at me, bash me, make fun of me all you want. But I am sorry, if you make 6 mill and you got that 6 mill to score goals and points and you can't figure out that all you have to do 5 on 5 and on the PP when playing with the best offensive player in the league is to find a spot, shoot quickly and you will score goals, that is a massive, massive problem and you need to go. People can say that he would bounce back if he was with the Oilers. I turn that around and say how? Not a chance in hell he would have been on McDavid's wing. They tried that, he blew it. Not a chance in hell he plays with Leon. They tried that a bit, it didn't work plus since Eberle can't score with McDavid, someone has too so they may have kept Leon on McDavid's wing. Not a chance in hell he would have been on the #1 PP, they tried it, he blew it. So in all likelihood he would have been on the second unit PP like he was last year, probably playing with Nuge getting less mins like he was in the playoffs.

Anyway, I have said my piece, I am done. Thanks for the memories Eberle, you left me with some good ones. I will keep track of you, I hope you do well. I had hoped that you would have been one of the guys to take my team to the promise land but like Hall, it wasn't meant to be. All the best Eberle.

At the very least he is a very productive regular season player. Lots of teams just want to get to the playoffs period to keep fan interest and some extra revenue. As much as we can bash his lack of physicality, lots of guys get by in the NHL without getting touched often. Ebs can help a team make the playoffs. There is lots of value in that. Very few teams in the league are trying to make minor tweaks to try to flip players for proven playoff performers, and even when you try to do that, it rarely actually works out.

Really think Chia pulled the trigger way too soon here. The RW free agent market is weak this year.

How many big trades get made after July 1? Typically very few. Trading a 6 mill player is a big trade. If a team is going to make a move, they usually make it at the draft or just after the draft. They do that so once July 1 hits, they know where they are at money wise. So if they didn't do it now, I doubt it happens at all this year, Then what? Islanders go out, go get someone else, this trade is gone, then you are trading Eberle for picks next year.

Could be right. I just find this return so underwhelming that I feel very confident that a better move could have been made. If this was the best we could do...might have been better to just stand pat for now.

I would have liked more too but at 6 mill, he's probably making 1-1.5 mill more than he should given the player he is and what he lacks.

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