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 Vegas Golden Knights [message #695934]
Thu, 22 June 2017 08:56 Go to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 13636
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

So after all of that, this is what the Knights roster currently looks like:

OFFICIAL VEGAS GOLDEN KNIGHTS ROSTER
Forwards
Teemu Pulkkinen (Coyotes)
William Carrier (Sabres)
Cody Eakin (Stars)
Tomas Nosek (Red Wings)
Jonathan Marchessault (Panthers)
Reilly Smith (Panthers)*
Connor Brickley (Hurricanes)
Chris Thorburn (Jets)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare (Flyers)
Nikita Gusev (Lightning)*
James Neal (Predators)
Mikhail Grabovski (Islanders)*
Brendan Leipsic (Maple Leafs)
David Perron (Blues)
Oscar Lindberg (Rangers)
Erik Haula (Wild)
Alex Tuch (Wild)*
William Karlsson (Blue Jackets)
David Clarkson (Blue Jackets)*

Defencemen
Luca Sbisa (Canucks)
Jon Merrill (Devils)
Brayden McNabb (Kings)
Jason Garrison (Lightning)
Deryk Engelland (Flames)
Jake Bischoff (Islanders)*
Colin Miller (Bruins)
Marc Methot (Senators)
David Schlemko (Sharks)
Griffin Reinhart (Oilers)
Alexei Emelin (Canadiens)
Clayton Stoner (Ducks)
Shea Theodore (Ducks)*
Trevor van Riemsdyk (Blackhawks)
Nate Schmidt (Capitals)

Goaltenders
Calvin Pickard (Avalanche)
Jean-Francois Berube (Islanders)
Marc-Andre Fleury (Penguins)
*Acquired via trade
---
Here is a list of draft picks acquired by Golden Knights:
1st round (2017) from Jets
1st round (2017) from Islanders
2nd round (2017) from Lightning
2nd round (2019) from Islanders
2nd round (2019) Blue Jackets
2nd round (2020) from Penguins
3rd round (2019) from Jets
4th round (2018) from Lightning
5th round (2017) from Hurricanes
6th round (2017) from Sabres

Thanks to TSN for the list.

McPhee is getting all kinds of accolades for how he handled the draft, but I think he has actually done really poorly.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/article/how-mcphee-held-gms-hostage-to -acquire-assets-1.785884

He had an opportunity to build a mediocre team through this draft with a few key pieces...he instead built a really poor one with almost no one of note. It's clear that he's decided the team's best chance is to suck hard and draft high.

There was so much talk about whether there would be follow-on deals where someone plucked a guy that the Knights had taken off someone else's roster, but there's not a lot of players there who there's any urgency to acquire. The only defenceman on the whole list I'd have interest in is Shea Theodore. James Neal will be eventually traded too...probably at the trade deadline for a 1st or 2nd round pick.

My conclusion from all of this is that McPhee isn't a very good GM, and that there's probably good reason that the Capitals never managed to get over the hump with him as GM. He got to pick early and get Ovechkin and Backstrom, and he's hoping he can get lucky like that again.

Side note - weirdest deal of the draft? Carolina giving up a pick to direct the Knights' selection from their squad. Having run the simulators a couple of times, I hadn't found anyone who was worth picking off that team at all...not sure who was worth protecting...And I would have thought they'd have wanted Ward to be picked to get rid of that contract?



"This team needs an enema!"
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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #695947 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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5 Cups

I agree. I don't get what they were doing. I said it in the other thread, I thought he let Minnie, the Ducks and the Isles off easy. Some of the picks that didn't involve side deals were baffling. Like the Rangers. He passes on Raanta who would could easily auction off for a lot because there are teams needing goalies. He passes up on a 27 goal scoring, dirt cheap 29 yr old Grabner and picks a 4th line center in Lindberg? He picks Thorburn, a goon from the Jets? He picks Emelin who's lousy. He drafts a UFA Engellend who chances are signs in Vegas anyway because he freaking lives in the City and is close to retiring.


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #695951 is a reply to message #695947 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 09:25

I agree.


You agree with Adam?!
icon_eek



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #695953 is a reply to message #695947 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 09:25

I agree. I don't get what they were doing. I said it in the other thread, I thought he let Minnie, the Ducks and the Isles off easy. Some of the picks that didn't involve side deals were baffling. Like the Rangers. He passes on Raanta who would could easily auction off for a lot because there are teams needing goalies. He passes up on a 27 goal scoring, dirt cheap 29 yr old Grabner and picks a 4th line center in Lindberg? He picks Thorburn, a goon from the Jets? He picks Emelin who's lousy. He drafts a UFA Engellend who chances are signs in Vegas anyway because he freaking lives in the City and is close to retiring.


To be fair to him, the Flames lot were terrible. Picking Engelland is basically saying "I don't want any of this trash you're offering."

But yes, he just moved a lot of deck chairs around while making the team worse than it had to be. When I was picking the team in simulations, I thought they'd end up with maybe only 4-5 decent defenceman (and so be unwilling to move them). They're really are only a couple that aren't third pairing guys.

I don't understand why he'd let off the Ducks or the Wild like he did. The Ducks are even in the same division, and yet he passed up an opportunity to make that team weaker.

He should have done his homework and looked at the deals previous expansion teams made to let teams off the hook. In almost every case, hindsight shows that the draft picks weren't worth it.

1998
Nashville Predators
-Calgary traded Jim Dowd to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select a goaltender from the Flames (Tabaracci & Roloson)
-Chicago traded Sergei Krivokrasov to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Chris Terreri.
-Los Angeles traded Kimmo Timonen and Jan Vopat to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Garry Galley.
-Montreal traded Sebastien Bordeleau to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Peter Popovic.
-Philadelphia traded Dominic Roussel and Jeff Staples to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Paul Coffey (Nashville also sent the Flyers a seventh-round pick (Cam Ondrik) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
-San Jose traded Ville Peltonen to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Tony Granato (Nashville also sent the Sharks a fifth-round pick (Josh Blackburn) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
-St. Louis traded Darren Turcotte to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Jamie McLennan.

1999
Atlanta
-several trades for generally weak players for protection of others on the roster. Biggest names on the list were Ulf Samuelsson (who was old by then) and Daymond Langkow. I don't know where to find the lists to show who the teams were protecting.

2000
Columbus Blue Jackets
-San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick (Martin Paroulek) in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft, and a conditional pick in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus on June 11, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.
-Buffalo traded Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Matt Davidson, and two fifth-round draft picks, one each in the 2000 (Tyler Kolarik) and 2001 (Andreas Jamtin) Entry Drafts, to Columbus on June 23, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Dominik Hasek or Martin Biron.

Minnesota Wild
-San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick (Peter Bartos) in the 2000 Entry Draft and a third-round pick (later traded to Columbus - (Aaron Johnson)) in the 2001 Entry Draft to Minnesota on June 11, 2000, for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

Other than the pickup of Kimmo Timonen from the Los Angeles Kings, there's not a lot of evidence there that it's in the best interest of the expansion team to make a deal. There's several where the move is lateral and several - especially the 2000 goalie protections - where it's clearly a terrible move by the expansion team.

But McPhee got to feel like a big shot for a couple weeks, so I guess there's that...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #695959 is a reply to message #695953 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5615
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5 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 09:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 09:25

I agree. I don't get what they were doing. I said it in the other thread, I thought he let Minnie, the Ducks and the Isles off easy. Some of the picks that didn't involve side deals were baffling. Like the Rangers. He passes on Raanta who would could easily auction off for a lot because there are teams needing goalies. He passes up on a 27 goal scoring, dirt cheap 29 yr old Grabner and picks a 4th line center in Lindberg? He picks Thorburn, a goon from the Jets? He picks Emelin who's lousy. He drafts a UFA Engellend who chances are signs in Vegas anyway because he freaking lives in the City and is close to retiring.


To be fair to him, the Flames lot were terrible. Picking Engelland is basically saying "I don't want any of this trash you're offering."



I agree, the Flames didn't have a lot but if you at who Vegas picked, they picked very few centers. For a year, Stajan who is a UFA after this season can do an OK job in a bottom 6 role. Bouma, another UFA at the end of this season is a useful bottom 6 guy. Chiasson, a fast, 26 yr old RFA, another bottom 6 guy who hasn't found a home. Brouwer is a top 9 forward that makes too much money. Didn't have the greatest year but has experience, plays hard, has a cup. For an expansion team, he could have a decent offensive year and has expansion team captain written all over him. At least get something from the Flames. If took Stajan as an example, you can probably trade him at the deadline and get something. Teams always look for depth forwards and dmen at the deadline.

They picked Engelland, a guy that would probably have signed on with them anyway July 1. What are the odds another team is going to go hard after a 35 yr old, slow dman? Very small. Chances are he's going to sign with Vegas even if the money is equal with another team because of the tax benefit in Vegas AND he can live in his own house with his family. So they literally took no one from the Flames.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 June 2017 10:23]


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696065 is a reply to message #695959 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 13636
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

One thought on Engelland. 30 players is too many. You've got to get rid of some of these guys, especially if you plan on signing some people in the summer.

So you pick Engelland and don't bother signing him, and it's basically just washed your hands of the necessity of taking on an obligation off that useless list of players that Calgary offered up.

As for Brouwer? That's a huge mistake of a contract by the Flames. There's no way I let any teams out of contract errors like that.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696254 is a reply to message #696065 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Registered: December 2010
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No Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 15:46

One thought on Engelland. 30 players is too many. You've got to get rid of some of these guys, especially if you plan on signing some people in the summer.

So you pick Engelland and don't bother signing him, and it's basically just washed your hands of the necessity of taking on an obligation off that useless list of players that Calgary offered up.

As for Brouwer? That's a huge mistake of a contract by the Flames. There's no way I let any teams out of contract errors like that.


I believe that Engelland lives in Vegas in the off season and they wanted to "get a head start on signing him". At least that's what i think i read.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #695955 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
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Of all the players available, they did an awful job.
Also if they were willing to take Clarkson, they would have for sure taken Pouliot.. Chia dropped the ball there.. as some teams gave a low pick to move a player.
Not as many first round picks as insiders predicted.. they should have taken One of the two big names from Anaheim Since hey didn't get a 1st for settling with Theodore and Stoner..



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #695957 is a reply to message #695955 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 10:04

Of all the players available, they did an awful job.
Also if they were willing to take Clarkson, they would have for sure taken Pouliot.. Chia dropped the ball there.. as some teams gave a low pick to move a player.
Not as many first round picks as insiders predicted.. they should have taken One of the two big names from Anaheim Since hey didn't get a 1st for settling with Theodore and Stoner..


It's worth noting, Clarkson hasn't played a game in over a year. He's most likely a zombie trade, much like Datsyuk and Pronger to the Coyotes. He'll be on LTIR for Vegas, so he's not going to cost them any actual money or cap space that matters and he won't eat up a roster spot.

Pouliot, they'd have actually had to pay and play.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696067 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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6 Cups

Those forwards....

That D.....

Poor Fleury.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696072 is a reply to message #696067 ]
Thu, 22 June 2017 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 22 June 2017 14:55

Those forwards....

That D.....

Poor Fleury.


McPhee did a terrible job in the draft and all the arrows are pointing to him have terrible asset management skills. However, given that Vegas is in our division, I am okay with them sucking.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696577 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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What the hell is this?

Dallas Stars‏ @DallasStars
The Stars acquire D Marc Methot from the Vegas Golden Knights in exchange for G Dylan Ferguson & a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.


McPhee... icon_dead doh

What is he doing? 10 year plan? Competitive in 2027?

Methot only had a 10 team no-trade list (included all Canadian teams), so 20 teams out there McPhee still could have moved him to. Or, you know, just keep him because the best offer is a goalie picked in the 7th round (a few days ago!) and a 2nd rounder in 2020.

[Updated on: Mon, 26 June 2017 19:06]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696582 is a reply to message #696577 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Location: Burnaby, BC

5 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 17:38

What the hell is this?

Dallas Stars‏ @DallasStars
The Stars acquire D Marc Methot from the Vegas Golden Knights in exchange for G Dylan Ferguson & a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.


McPhee... icon_dead doh

What is he doing? 10 year plan? Competitive in 2027?

Methot only had a 10 team no-trade list (included all Canadian teams), so 20 teams out there McPhee still could have moved him to. Or, you know, just keep him because the best offer is a goalie picked in the 7th round (a few days ago!) and a 2nd rounder in 2020.



Another McFailure.
I guess the 10 team NO-trade list included Ottawa then (you said all Canadian teams?). Ouch, that smarts if you're a Sens fan. Those 10 must include Edmonton, so I won't go ape-s**t all over Chiarelli for missing that one.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks, K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner, Petrovic = Nathan Legare

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696583 is a reply to message #696582 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 22:28

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 17:38

What the hell is this?

Dallas Stars‏ @DallasStars
The Stars acquire D Marc Methot from the Vegas Golden Knights in exchange for G Dylan Ferguson & a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.


McPhee... icon_dead doh

What is he doing? 10 year plan? Competitive in 2027?

Methot only had a 10 team no-trade list (included all Canadian teams), so 20 teams out there McPhee still could have moved him to. Or, you know, just keep him because the best offer is a goalie picked in the 7th round (a few days ago!) and a 2nd rounder in 2020.



Another McFailure.
I guess the 10 team NO-trade list included Ottawa then (you said all Canadian teams?). Ouch, that smarts if you're a Sens fan. Those 10 must include Edmonton, so I won't go ape-s**t all over Chiarelli for missing that one.


Not sure if he added Ottawa after, but when Ottawa had him and were considering shopping him, it was confirmed that he had every other Canadian team on his no trade list, which I assume he would have maintained with Vegas.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696584 is a reply to message #696583 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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5 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 21:36

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 22:28

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 17:38

What the hell is this?

Dallas Stars‏ @DallasStars
The Stars acquire D Marc Methot from the Vegas Golden Knights in exchange for G Dylan Ferguson & a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.


McPhee... icon_dead doh

What is he doing? 10 year plan? Competitive in 2027?

Methot only had a 10 team no-trade list (included all Canadian teams), so 20 teams out there McPhee still could have moved him to. Or, you know, just keep him because the best offer is a goalie picked in the 7th round (a few days ago!) and a 2nd rounder in 2020.



Another McFailure.
I guess the 10 team NO-trade list included Ottawa then (you said all Canadian teams?). Ouch, that smarts if you're a Sens fan. Those 10 must include Edmonton, so I won't go ape-s**t all over Chiarelli for missing that one.


Not sure if he added Ottawa after, but when Ottawa had him and were considering shopping him, it was confirmed that he had every other Canadian team on his no trade list, which I assume he would have maintained with Vegas.


If that's the case you'd think Ottawa could have coughed up a 2nd rounder + to get their 2nd best defenseman back? Weird.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks, K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner, Petrovic = Nathan Legare

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696616 is a reply to message #696584 ]
Tue, 27 June 2017 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 23:49

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 21:36

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 22:28

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 17:38

What the hell is this?

Dallas Stars‏ @DallasStars
The Stars acquire D Marc Methot from the Vegas Golden Knights in exchange for G Dylan Ferguson & a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.


McPhee... icon_dead doh

What is he doing? 10 year plan? Competitive in 2027?

Methot only had a 10 team no-trade list (included all Canadian teams), so 20 teams out there McPhee still could have moved him to. Or, you know, just keep him because the best offer is a goalie picked in the 7th round (a few days ago!) and a 2nd rounder in 2020.



Another McFailure.
I guess the 10 team NO-trade list included Ottawa then (you said all Canadian teams?). Ouch, that smarts if you're a Sens fan. Those 10 must include Edmonton, so I won't go ape-s**t all over Chiarelli for missing that one.


Not sure if he added Ottawa after, but when Ottawa had him and were considering shopping him, it was confirmed that he had every other Canadian team on his no trade list, which I assume he would have maintained with Vegas.


If that's the case you'd think Ottawa could have coughed up a 2nd rounder + to get their 2nd best defenseman back? Weird.



It wouldn't have mattered if Ottawa was on the list or not because a player drafted by Vegas is not allowed to be traded back to the team they picked him from until after, I believe, January 1st. Ottawa could have, however, coughed up a 2nd and a 7th round goalie BEFORE the draft and had Vegas just pick someone else though. So, still baffling.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696593 is a reply to message #696577 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 18:38

What the hell is this?

Dallas Stars‏ @DallasStars
The Stars acquire D Marc Methot from the Vegas Golden Knights in exchange for G Dylan Ferguson & a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.


McPhee... icon_dead doh

What is he doing? 10 year plan? Competitive in 2027?

Methot only had a 10 team no-trade list (included all Canadian teams), so 20 teams out there McPhee still could have moved him to. Or, you know, just keep him because the best offer is a goalie picked in the 7th round (a few days ago!) and a 2nd rounder in 2020.


You'd think in the months since he was hired, McPhee might have come up with a better plan than just to tank the first years of the franchise until he gets fired.

Methot would have been one of their better defencemen, especially since they passed up all the good defencemen available in the expansion draft. Instead they have an 18-year old goalie and a pick three years from now...He really could not have gotten much less for that player, so why the hurry to lose him?

And does he have to live up to others no-movement clauses? Or is that just McPhee being a nice guy again?

Quick, Chiarelli, find out if he'll take a 2022 first for Shea Theodore!



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696696 is a reply to message #696593 ]
Tue, 27 June 2017 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5615
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

I don't get what Vegas is doing. Methot is a good dman. That's all they can get? I thought for sure they would load up on dmen and try to get as many right handed dmen which are gold in the NHL. If you count Van Riemsdyk, they took 3 right handed dmen. That's it. They currently have 2 on their roster. One of them is a 35 yr old Engelland. They had 14 dmen on their roster if you count Van Riemsdyk and Methot. I look at the list. I would maybe consider 4 out of 14 of being good enough for the Oilers. Not saying I would bring them in, just saying that are decent enough to even give a second thought. I am not worried about the salary, just looking at the quality of the Dman. Methot good, shut down guy. Van Riemsdyk because he is young and only because he is right handed. Theodore. Miller because he is right handed, young and can move the puck. I wouldn't even consider any of the rest.

Maybe they will take Pouliot for Marchessault. There is a spread sheet out there that says he's good. Lowetide thought Vegas should take him in the expansion draft. Matt Henderson just wrote an article on Oilersnation about Pouliot getting a bad rap.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 June 2017 15:37]


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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696983 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Thu, 29 June 2017 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
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6 Cups

I just noticed Vegas doesn't have a single defenseman signed past next season, except Jake Bischoff (who I've never heard of). That is appallingly reckless.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/VGK?year=2018



This is fine.

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696988 is a reply to message #696983 ]
Thu, 29 June 2017 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2017 15:38

I just noticed Vegas doesn't have a single defenseman signed past next season, except Jake Bischoff (who I've never heard of). That is appallingly reckless.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/VGK?year=2018


McPhee really made a mess of his opportunity. This whole expansion draft was quite a disappointment. So much needless screwing around with teams and their decision making over the last year, just so Vegas could make a garbage team.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #696990 is a reply to message #696988 ]
Thu, 29 June 2017 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2017 15:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2017 15:38

I just noticed Vegas doesn't have a single defenseman signed past next season, except Jake Bischoff (who I've never heard of). That is appallingly reckless.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/VGK?year=2018


McPhee really made a mess of his opportunity. This whole expansion draft was quite a disappointment. So much needless screwing around with teams and their decision making over the last year, just so Vegas could make a garbage team.


It's going to be a tire fire. I think he wanted a bunch of expiring contracts so he could have an auction in February. I expect they'll try to trade away half the team at the deadline, so that he can have as many trips to the podium as possible at next summer's draft.

But he's not going to get a lot of firsts for that hot mess, and so he's really playing the long game right now and hoping the team can be good in 5-7 years.

Over/Under on when he's fired? I say after 2019-20 season.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697168 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Sat, 01 July 2017 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The sell-off continues in Vegas. Alex Emelin dished to Nashville for a 2019 third round pick. Vegas also retaining salary.

Shockingly, despite how terrible the Knights look, they have $62MM of salary cap room eaten up by the players they have in the fold (although $10MM+ of that might be on LTIR with Clarkson and Grabovski).




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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697230 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Tue, 04 July 2017 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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So on the weekend, Vegas acquired Markus Kruger from the Blackhawks for future considerations. There was a rumour that he was going to go to the Knights around the expansion draft (he was exposed), so this might have been filling that requirement. I expect that the future considerations equal nothing at the end of the day.

And then today, the Knights - who've sworn to dress a bare minimum of actual NHL players this year - flip him to Carolina for a 5th round pick in 2018.

Vegas now acts as just a clearing house for contracts, with low picks the price of using the service.

Good deal for Carolina. They get a serviceable NHL player for a pick with a low probability of ever hitting the ice for an NHL game. Kruger is overpaid for what he brings, but Carolina has lots of cap space - over $17 Million even after picking up the new contract.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697231 is a reply to message #697230 ]
Tue, 04 July 2017 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 04 July 2017 09:33

So on the weekend, Vegas acquired Markus Kruger from the Blackhawks for future considerations. There was a rumour that he was going to go to the Knights around the expansion draft (he was exposed), so this might have been filling that requirement. I expect that the future considerations equal nothing at the end of the day.

And then today, the Knights - who've sworn to dress a bare minimum of actual NHL players this year - flip him to Carolina for a 5th round pick in 2018.

Vegas now acts as just a clearing house for contracts, with low picks the price of using the service.

Good deal for Carolina. They get a serviceable NHL player for a pick with a low probability of ever hitting the ice for an NHL game. Kruger is overpaid for what he brings, but Carolina has lots of cap space - over $17 Million even after picking up the new contract.


Looks like a cap floor move. Krueger had a bonus paid on July 1st. Chicago paid it and sent him off to Vegas, and then he's off to Carolina so they can hit the cap floor for cheap.

I'm not be pissed if we don't take 100% of points from Vegas this year.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697248 is a reply to message #697231 ]
Tue, 04 July 2017 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If I was a season ticket holder of the Vegas Knights I would be pissed.

They could have had a decent team with some draft picks.

Now they have a crap team and some of the draft picks aren't until later years. How does a 2019 draft pick in the 2nd plus round help them, maybe in 5+ years from now. Basically says to the league we are going to suck for 5+ years and we helped a few teams along the way.

They paid a lot of money for an expansion team and had better expansion rules to pick from but somehow figured they shouldn't actually use that to their benefit...



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697253 is a reply to message #697248 ]
Tue, 04 July 2017 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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McDavid97 wrote on Tue, 04 July 2017 11:31

If I was a season ticket holder of the Vegas Knights I would be pissed.

They could have had a decent team with some draft picks.

Now they have a crap team and some of the draft picks aren't until later years. How does a 2019 draft pick in the 2nd plus round help them, maybe in 5+ years from now. Basically says to the league we are going to suck for 5+ years and we helped a few teams along the way.

They paid a lot of money for an expansion team and had better expansion rules to pick from but somehow figured they shouldn't actually use that to their benefit...


But everyone loves George McPhee and they all pumped his tires at the expansion draft...so there's that!



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697257 is a reply to message #697253 ]
Tue, 04 July 2017 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 04 July 2017 11:43

McDavid97 wrote on Tue, 04 July 2017 11:31

If I was a season ticket holder of the Vegas Knights I would be pissed.

They could have had a decent team with some draft picks.

Now they have a crap team and some of the draft picks aren't until later years. How does a 2019 draft pick in the 2nd plus round help them, maybe in 5+ years from now. Basically says to the league we are going to suck for 5+ years and we helped a few teams along the way.

They paid a lot of money for an expansion team and had better expansion rules to pick from but somehow figured they shouldn't actually use that to their benefit...


But everyone loves George McPhee and they all pumped his tires at the expansion draft...so there's that!


There was a GM, named Mr. McPhee

The only one worse than when we had MacT.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697258 is a reply to message #697257 ]
Tue, 04 July 2017 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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vsove wrote on Tue, 04 July 2017 12:49


There was a GM, named Mr. McPhee

The only one worse than when we had MacT.


Picked all the d-men,
Then dealt them all again,
Now his team is sure to be sucky.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697514 is a reply to message #697258 ]
Sun, 09 July 2017 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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As has been said - they could have actually put together a decent team, but I would say they made a mistake on almost half of their selections, some egregious. Engelland from the Flames? Really?

As it stands now, I can't see them even threaten to get out of the basement for at least a 3-4 years.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697518 is a reply to message #697514 ]
Mon, 10 July 2017 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Mike wrote on Sun, 09 July 2017 18:31

As has been said - they could have actually put together a decent team, but I would say they made a mistake on almost half of their selections, some egregious. Engelland from the Flames? Really?

As it stands now, I can't see them even threaten to get out of the basement for at least a 3-4 years.

And smartly, that might have been the plan.
At the end of the day, who cares? Easy points for us.



In fairness to Hall, I've wanted to throw a waterbottle at Eakins all season.
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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697519 is a reply to message #697518 ]
Mon, 10 July 2017 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ales Cooper wrote on Mon, 10 July 2017 01:34

Mike wrote on Sun, 09 July 2017 18:31

As has been said - they could have actually put together a decent team, but I would say they made a mistake on almost half of their selections, some egregious. Engelland from the Flames? Really?

As it stands now, I can't see them even threaten to get out of the basement for at least a 3-4 years.

And smartly, that might have been the plan.
At the end of the day, who cares? Easy points for us.

Yeah, but if everyone is getting easy points no one is getting anything.

If I was the owner in Vegas, I would be worried about still being an awful team when the Raiders show up. Although, if I was owner in Edmonton I would be worried about different things than the current owner is worried about too. So maybe I just don't understand the ownership mentality.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #697523 is a reply to message #697519 ]
Mon, 10 July 2017 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 July 2017 08:16

Ales Cooper wrote on Mon, 10 July 2017 01:34

Mike wrote on Sun, 09 July 2017 18:31

As has been said - they could have actually put together a decent team, but I would say they made a mistake on almost half of their selections, some egregious. Engelland from the Flames? Really?

As it stands now, I can't see them even threaten to get out of the basement for at least a 3-4 years.

And smartly, that might have been the plan.
At the end of the day, who cares? Easy points for us.

Yeah, but if everyone is getting easy points no one is getting anything.

If I was the owner in Vegas, I would be worried about still being an awful team when the Raiders show up. Although, if I was owner in Edmonton I would be worried about different things than the current owner is worried about too. So maybe I just don't understand the ownership mentality.


Yeah, they have to be competitive by then. We've seen in almost all of these expansion markets, if the team takes a decade to be competitive, it kills any positive momentum in building a fanbase. There's already challenges in Vegas, and the NFL is going to eat up a lot of the spend on sports. They're getting an established team, so it won't have the same struggles.

The Knights would not have been out of the lottery even if they'd picked straight, but the strategy of amassing depth draft picks rather than taking the best veteran players available was a foolish one. McPhee didn't seem to believe he was building a team with that draft - just accumulating assets. And while he clearly believes there is no way to build a team but through the draft, a team needs some mix of ages, and a draft pick today outside of the top 5-10 picks is probably going to take 3-5 years to be ready to play in the NHL. So if McPhee's only plan is to try to not suck in 2022...it's not a great strategy.

Take that Minnesota deal: Even if he were just to trade him again later, Matt Dumba probably could have got the team more than Eric Haula and Alex Tuch. Dumba had 34 points as a defenceman last year. Haula, a center, had only 26. Tuch isn't even a point per game winger in the AHL. Dumba's only 23 too...not like he's an aging vet.

On your last point, it does seem funny that you'd shell out millions for an asset that doesn't produce much of a return only to watch them suck for years. Where's the prestige in that?



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #713632 is a reply to message #697518 ]
Wed, 18 April 2018 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ales Cooper wrote on Mon, 10 July 2017 01:34

Mike wrote on Sun, 09 July 2017 18:31

As has been said - they could have actually put together a decent team, but I would say they made a mistake on almost half of their selections, some egregious. Engelland from the Flames? Really?

As it stands now, I can't see them even threaten to get out of the basement for at least a 3-4 years.

And smartly, that might have been the plan.
At the end of the day, who cares? Easy points for us.

Whoops.



In fairness to Hall, I've wanted to throw a waterbottle at Eakins all season.
~nullterm 03/22/2014

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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #713634 is a reply to message #713632 ]
Wed, 18 April 2018 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ales Cooper wrote on Wed, 18 April 2018 10:01

Ales Cooper wrote on Mon, 10 July 2017 01:34

Mike wrote on Sun, 09 July 2017 18:31

As has been said - they could have actually put together a decent team, but I would say they made a mistake on almost half of their selections, some egregious. Engelland from the Flames? Really?

As it stands now, I can't see them even threaten to get out of the basement for at least a 3-4 years.

And smartly, that might have been the plan.
At the end of the day, who cares? Easy points for us.

Whoops.


I've been wrong on a lot of things about hockey, but never this far off. Unbelievable.

Crazy thing is, it's not all smoke and mirrors. They are playing great hockey. Hitting everything that moves, got 4 lines rolling...never thought after 4 1st overall picks including the best player in the world that I would be jealous of an expansion team.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #713638 is a reply to message #713634 ]
Wed, 18 April 2018 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Wed, 18 April 2018 08:54

Ales Cooper wrote on Wed, 18 April 2018 10:01

Ales Cooper wrote on Mon, 10 July 2017 01:34

Mike wrote on Sun, 09 July 2017 18:31

As has been said - they could have actually put together a decent team, but I would say they made a mistake on almost half of their selections, some egregious. Engelland from the Flames? Really?

As it stands now, I can't see them even threaten to get out of the basement for at least a 3-4 years.

And smartly, that might have been the plan.
At the end of the day, who cares? Easy points for us.

Whoops.


I've been wrong on a lot of things about hockey, but never this far off. Unbelievable.

Crazy thing is, it's not all smoke and mirrors. They are playing great hockey. Hitting everything that moves, got 4 lines rolling...never thought after 4 1st overall picks including the best player in the world that I would be jealous of an expansion team.


I look at this and think this is why I can't give coaching a free pass. I do not believe that McPhee picked this team expecting playoffs at all, never mind a division title and a spot in the conference semi-finals.

Gallant has done a good job in identifying what he had, crafting a system designed around what he has at his disposal and then putting players in positions to succeed. We've seen too many coaches here who've tried to wedge square pegs in to round holes with no success. It seems intuitive that you'd coach to what you have - think Jacques Lemaire with the Minnesota Wild - but instead you get these coaches who are set on showing how smart they are and how they can re-invent the game.




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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #698649 is a reply to message #695934 ]
Tue, 29 August 2017 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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This is so ugly


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIaesy4VoAAwVQK.jpg:large


Is this any better than teams made with the old expansion draft methods? Most of the decent players with >1 year deals were guys that teams really wanted to get rid of anyways. What a crazy waste of time all this was.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #698653 is a reply to message #698649 ]
Wed, 30 August 2017 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 29 August 2017 20:53

DTM About Heart‏ @DTMAboutHeart
This is so ugly


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIaesy4VoAAwVQK.jpg:large


Is this any better than teams made with the old expansion draft methods? Most of the decent players with >1 year deals were guys that teams really wanted to get rid of anyways. What a crazy waste of time all this was.

The Vegas team is pretty ugly. When you are an expansion team you know going in that you aren't going to win. It's hard enough to win for established teams, let alone a brand new team building from scratch. But it is still baffling to me what they did. The only thing they did right was the goalies they drafted as they have a good starter and a good back up. I can understand to a degree of taking on a few UFA's in order to trade for assets to help build your system. But who will be dying to trade for Garrison, Sbisa, Stoner at the deadline and if you can trade them, you will be getting next to nothing. They had an opportunity to draft some actual building blocks but they left teams off the hook. If you look at the dmen they drafted, they currently have 11. I doubt they would resign any of the UFA's. So that eliminates 5 of them. They signed Hunt who's not a full time NHL dman to a 2 year deal. They don't even have enough guys to make up a decent top 4 next season. They traded for Theordore who might be decent but the Ducks clearly were OK to lose him because the other dmen they had are better. They had the chance to draft a Manson, a building block, a right shot, big, nasty, young, already pretty good guy that can anchor your defense. They could have drafted another really good dman from the Wild and got another guy who's a legit top 4 guy but they made a stupid trade and drafted a 3rd line center. They took 2 injury guys at forward. Just baffling to me.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #698658 is a reply to message #698649 ]
Wed, 30 August 2017 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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McPhee over-thought this one. He was so happy to see the pundits applauding him for all his wheeling and dealing!

But he completely fumbled in the end, and he should know that his tank strategy isn't nearly as likely to work in a league where there are multiple lotteries.

Not only did he not take good players, but he let good teams that his team has to compete against keep all their best players, while he took lesser ones. He better hope he got a great scouting staff, or that team is bad for a long, long time.



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #698662 is a reply to message #698658 ]
Wed, 30 August 2017 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 30 August 2017 09:08

McPhee over-thought this one. He was so happy to see the pundits applauding him for all his wheeling and dealing!

But he completely fumbled in the end, and he should know that his tank strategy isn't nearly as likely to work in a league where there are multiple lotteries.

Not only did he not take good players, but he let good teams that his team has to compete against keep all their best players, while he took lesser ones. He better hope he got a great scouting staff, or that team is bad for a long, long time.


Wow, we actually agree on something.

The trade I found most baffling was with the Ducks. They pass up on a Manson or a Vatanen who would be building blocks for them and who if you didn't want them, you could get a lot for. So you get Theodore in a "trade" who has promise but dropped on the Ducks depth chart big time. But then you take on Stoner to help the Ducks with their cap. The Ducks are in your conference and your division. So you leave them with all of their best dmen intact and you help them with their cap problem. Why would you help a division rival like that?



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 Re: Vegas Golden Knights [message #698667 is a reply to message #698662 ]
Wed, 30 August 2017 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 August 2017 09:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 30 August 2017 09:08

McPhee over-thought this one. He was so happy to see the pundits applauding him for all his wheeling and dealing!

But he completely fumbled in the end, and he should know that his tank strategy isn't nearly as likely to work in a league where there are multiple lotteries.

Not only did he not take good players, but he let good teams that his team has to compete against keep all their best players, while he took lesser ones. He better hope he got a great scouting staff, or that team is bad for a long, long time.


Wow, we actually agree on something.

The trade I found most baffling was with the Ducks. They pass up on a Manson or a Vatanen who would be building blocks for them and who if you didn't want them, you could get a lot for. So you get Theodore in a "trade" who has promise but dropped on the Ducks depth chart big time. But then you take on Stoner to help the Ducks with their cap. The Ducks are in your conference and your division. So you leave them with all of their best dmen intact and you help them with their cap problem. Why would you help a division rival like that?


There's a few I don't get. I'm fine with taking the draft pick to avoid Enstrom, because he's too old to contribute to a franchise that won't be good anyhow for at least a couple years, but why take UFA-to-be Thorburn instead of one of their prospect forwards?

Why Eric Haula instead of Matt Dumba? Dumba's a defenceman and still had 8 more points than Haula last year. There were no end of third and fourth line forwards available...there weren't many offensive d-men, and Dumba's only 22 years old.

They made head-scratching move after head-scratching move, and the only reason I can think for it is that they don't care at all about winning in the first three years - which is new fanbase suicide and no guarantee to build a winner through the draft. I think it's a really poor strategy.



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