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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676227 is a reply to message #676226 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:54

Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:44

Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:12

As much as I was a fan of Hall and think he's a really good player, does he continually getting snubbed by team Canada say something about him? I am not trying to stir the pot, it just makes me wonder. I thought he should have made the team in the first place but he didn't. Now they need an injury replacement and he doesn't get picked again. I would take him over Couture but he didn't get picked. So I just wonder why because I don't get it.


Too much Oilers influence on Team Canada. They have a bad trade to sell. It wouldn't look good if Hall lit it up on Team Canada.


Oh come on. What are you talking about? People need to give up on the Oiler conspiracy theory crap. The team Canada management group is:
Doug Armstrong
Marc Bergevin
Rob Blake
Bob Murray
Where is the Oiler connection? None of these guys have EVER worked for the Oilers. Hall wasn't picked before the trade happen. You honestly think any of those guys give a damn about the Oilers saving face. I supposed you think Klowe called up all the Hockey Canada guys and told them "don't you dare put Hall on the team now that we traded him." And the rest of them were like. "Ok Kevin, no problem, you are the boss." Give me a break.




You think Bob no longer has any influence with Hockey Canada?



Oh right, I forgot. Bob Nicholson is the puppet master of all men in hockey and they do his bidding no matter what. If that is the case then why isn't PK Suban an Oiler for Yak and Fayne? Bergervin is one of the managers so Nicholson should have been able to tell him he had to do that trade or else.


RDOF - I agree with you that it's unlikely the Oilers influenced this decision. But the way you deride other people's opinions is really off-putting. One of the reasons this board has always been a great place to discuss hockey is because there's an emphasis on proving your point with facts, not with insults and derision.

I think you'll find you'll enjoy the debate here a lot more if you didn't take people's opinions as a personal affront and stuck to either providing your own opinion, or facts to back up your opinion, with a lot less snark at other posters who dare provide another viewpoint.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676229 is a reply to message #676227 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:54

Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:44

Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:12

As much as I was a fan of Hall and think he's a really good player, does he continually getting snubbed by team Canada say something about him? I am not trying to stir the pot, it just makes me wonder. I thought he should have made the team in the first place but he didn't. Now they need an injury replacement and he doesn't get picked again. I would take him over Couture but he didn't get picked. So I just wonder why because I don't get it.


Too much Oilers influence on Team Canada. They have a bad trade to sell. It wouldn't look good if Hall lit it up on Team Canada.


Oh come on. What are you talking about? People need to give up on the Oiler conspiracy theory crap. The team Canada management group is:
Doug Armstrong
Marc Bergevin
Rob Blake
Bob Murray
Where is the Oiler connection? None of these guys have EVER worked for the Oilers. Hall wasn't picked before the trade happen. You honestly think any of those guys give a damn about the Oilers saving face. I supposed you think Klowe called up all the Hockey Canada guys and told them "don't you dare put Hall on the team now that we traded him." And the rest of them were like. "Ok Kevin, no problem, you are the boss." Give me a break.




You think Bob no longer has any influence with Hockey Canada?



Oh right, I forgot. Bob Nicholson is the puppet master of all men in hockey and they do his bidding no matter what. If that is the case then why isn't PK Suban an Oiler for Yak and Fayne? Bergervin is one of the managers so Nicholson should have been able to tell him he had to do that trade or else.


RDOF - I agree with you that it's unlikely the Oilers influenced this decision. But the way you deride other people's opinions is really off-putting. One of the reasons this board has always been a great place to discuss hockey is because there's an emphasis on proving your point with facts, not with insults and derision.

I think you'll find you'll enjoy the debate here a lot more if you didn't take people's opinions as a personal affront and stuck to either providing your own opinion, or facts to back up your opinion, with a lot less snark at other posters who dare provide another viewpoint.


His view point is the Oilers president has power over grown men and the Oilers brass dictate how the league and these men make decisions. How do you have a rational debate with someone that believes that?



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676233 is a reply to message #676229 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:16

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:54

Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:44

Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:12

As much as I was a fan of Hall and think he's a really good player, does he continually getting snubbed by team Canada say something about him? I am not trying to stir the pot, it just makes me wonder. I thought he should have made the team in the first place but he didn't. Now they need an injury replacement and he doesn't get picked again. I would take him over Couture but he didn't get picked. So I just wonder why because I don't get it.


Too much Oilers influence on Team Canada. They have a bad trade to sell. It wouldn't look good if Hall lit it up on Team Canada.


Oh come on. What are you talking about? People need to give up on the Oiler conspiracy theory crap. The team Canada management group is:
Doug Armstrong
Marc Bergevin
Rob Blake
Bob Murray
Where is the Oiler connection? None of these guys have EVER worked for the Oilers. Hall wasn't picked before the trade happen. You honestly think any of those guys give a damn about the Oilers saving face. I supposed you think Klowe called up all the Hockey Canada guys and told them "don't you dare put Hall on the team now that we traded him." And the rest of them were like. "Ok Kevin, no problem, you are the boss." Give me a break.




You think Bob no longer has any influence with Hockey Canada?



Oh right, I forgot. Bob Nicholson is the puppet master of all men in hockey and they do his bidding no matter what. If that is the case then why isn't PK Suban an Oiler for Yak and Fayne? Bergervin is one of the managers so Nicholson should have been able to tell him he had to do that trade or else.


RDOF - I agree with you that it's unlikely the Oilers influenced this decision. But the way you deride other people's opinions is really off-putting. One of the reasons this board has always been a great place to discuss hockey is because there's an emphasis on proving your point with facts, not with insults and derision.

I think you'll find you'll enjoy the debate here a lot more if you didn't take people's opinions as a personal affront and stuck to either providing your own opinion, or facts to back up your opinion, with a lot less snark at other posters who dare provide another viewpoint.


His view point is the Oilers president has power over grown men and the Oilers brass dictate how the league and these men make decisions. How do you have a rational debate with someone that believes that?


I personally thought he was being sarcastic originally, so I wouldn't have responded to it with anything but a chuckle.

I think you can say the same thing without the snark rather easily. Maybe point out that there's no spot for Nicholson on the current management team, and that this is the World Cup, which is an NHL invention - so I'm not sure that there's even a strong connection with Hockey Canada. Certainly, I've heard nothing about Tom Renney or anyone at Hockey Canada playing a role with this iteration of Team Canada.

Ultimately, some men do have power over other grown men, and influence is a real thing - especially in hockey circles. The rumblings about Hall being bad in the dressing room, which may or may not have found some origination in the Oilers management (they've been known to plant smear campaigns with the media in the past) could definitely influence a decision if looking at two players that you had evaluated fairly similarly.

It's fine to disagree with that, but just don't act incredulous about it, like it's literally the dumbest thing you've ever heard and that it offends you just to have it even mentioned. Seriously, it'll go a long way if you lose the edge.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676243 is a reply to message #676227 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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I'll say it again, but I don't think Hall as of the last 2 years has not proven himself worthy of anything more than a consideration. In other words, it's not a clear cut snub.

Couture has two 30 goal seasons. Matt Duchene has one. That's a feat Hall has yet to accomplish. Goals aren't everything, but he has not been a point per game player in the last two years either. So like I said, I have a hard time calling it a snub. You can debate that Hall has is better than some guys on the team, and I believe that's true, but it is not clear cut.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676230 is a reply to message #676226 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:54


Oh right, I forgot. Bob Nicholson is the puppet master of all men in hockey and they do his bidding no matter what. If that is the case then why isn't PK Suban an Oiler for Yak and Fayne? Bergervin is one of the managers so Nicholson should have been able to tell him he had to do that trade or else.


Nice straw man hyperbole. You forgot to add, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

Look, I am obviously still very bitter about the Hall trade and feel free to call me out on that, but you need to settle down a bit. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibilities that there is communication between Hockey Canada and the Oilers management. The Oilers have a history of devaluing former players in an attempt to sell management's moves to the fan base.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676234 is a reply to message #676230 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:54


Oh right, I forgot. Bob Nicholson is the puppet master of all men in hockey and they do his bidding no matter what. If that is the case then why isn't PK Suban an Oiler for Yak and Fayne? Bergervin is one of the managers so Nicholson should have been able to tell him he had to do that trade or else.


Nice straw man hyperbole. You forgot to add, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

Look, I am obviously still very bitter about the Hall trade and feel free to call me out on that, but you need to settle down a bit. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibilities that there is communication between Hockey Canada and the Oilers management. The Oilers have a history of devaluing former players in an attempt to sell management's moves to the fan base.



So you are telling me that professional NHL GM's are not capable of forming their own opinions on a player like Hall and will rely solely on what Oilers brass tell them. I would assume that an NHL GM would be capable of scouting and evaluating a current NHLer and form his own conclusions on a player but I will concede that I don't know what they did or know what their capabilities are. I doubt that the Oilers management, especially the current one, has a mandate to destroy the reputation of any player but I have no proof so I supposed anything is possible. I also doubt that men in the position of the guys I listed would take a lot of stock in what the Oilers may or many not have said and would rely more on their own scouting and opinions but again I don't have any proof that I can produce so I suppose there is a chance that they would just take the recommendation of the Oilers on Hall and use that solely to make their decisions.

[Updated on: Tue, 23 August 2016 12:33]


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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676236 is a reply to message #676230 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:54


Oh right, I forgot. Bob Nicholson is the puppet master of all men in hockey and they do his bidding no matter what. If that is the case then why isn't PK Suban an Oiler for Yak and Fayne? Bergervin is one of the managers so Nicholson should have been able to tell him he had to do that trade or else.


Nice straw man hyperbole. You forgot to add, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

Look, I am obviously still very bitter about the Hall trade and feel free to call me out on that, but you need to settle down a bit. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibilities that there is communication between Hockey Canada and the Oilers management. The Oilers have a history of devaluing former players in an attempt to sell management's moves to the fan base.




I think there may be a number of smaller things at play here but I doubt there is a conspiracy at a high level to slam Hall. I agree there has been some of that in the past but even a lot of that was blown out of proportion.
- I think it is possible Nicholson still has some pull with HC and does not have good things to say about Hall. But I also believe it is possible they are true (him being a bad locker room guy)
- I think it is possible that a decade of losing has put a stigma on Oilers players
- I think it is possible that Hall's body language pisses off some of the brass
- I think it is possible that the Oilers management that were a part of HC have left behind an odor of failure that is held against the players.
- Perhaps they think that Hall's doesnt fit the style they are going for and every player selected gives them a better chance to win ( I know this is far fetched but maybe there is no other circumstances other than an honest selection)

I agree with Adam that Hall is a better player, but I disagree with the notion that there is some kind of backroom conspiracy by the current Oilers and former hockey Canada staff to influence the current HC decision makers to think Hall sucks.
I know this team is all of ours focus but there has to be some pumping of tires for an incoming player and some downplaying of the gap left by the outgoing player.
In todays information age the spin has to be put on.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676245 is a reply to message #676236 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 13:55

Pseudoreality wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:54


Oh right, I forgot. Bob Nicholson is the puppet master of all men in hockey and they do his bidding no matter what. If that is the case then why isn't PK Suban an Oiler for Yak and Fayne? Bergervin is one of the managers so Nicholson should have been able to tell him he had to do that trade or else.


Nice straw man hyperbole. You forgot to add, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

Look, I am obviously still very bitter about the Hall trade and feel free to call me out on that, but you need to settle down a bit. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibilities that there is communication between Hockey Canada and the Oilers management. The Oilers have a history of devaluing former players in an attempt to sell management's moves to the fan base.




I think there may be a number of smaller things at play here but I doubt there is a conspiracy at a high level to slam Hall. I agree there has been some of that in the past but even a lot of that was blown out of proportion.
- I think it is possible Nicholson still has some pull with HC and does not have good things to say about Hall. But I also believe it is possible they are true (him being a bad locker room guy)
- I think it is possible that a decade of losing has put a stigma on Oilers players
- I think it is possible that Hall's body language pisses off some of the brass
- I think it is possible that the Oilers management that were a part of HC have left behind an odor of failure that is held against the players.
- Perhaps they think that Hall's doesnt fit the style they are going for and every player selected gives them a better chance to win ( I know this is far fetched but maybe there is no other circumstances other than an honest selection)

I agree with Adam that Hall is a better player, but I disagree with the notion that there is some kind of backroom conspiracy by the current Oilers and former hockey Canada staff to influence the current HC decision makers to think Hall sucks.
I know this team is all of ours focus but there has to be some pumping of tires for an incoming player and some downplaying of the gap left by the outgoing player.
In todays information age the spin has to be put on.

I'm sure the Oilers losing would have an impact on Hall not getting picked but I doubt there is some conspiracy smear campaign going on.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676222 is a reply to message #676219 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 11:12

As much as I was a fan of Hall and think he's a really good player, does he continually getting snubbed by team Canada say something about him? I am not trying to stir the pot, it just makes me wonder. I thought he should have made the team in the first place but he didn't. Now they need an injury replacement and he doesn't get picked again. I would take him over Couture but he didn't get picked. So I just wonder why because I don't get it.


No, I don't think it does. I think it says something about the way Team Canada is picked. Look back at every Team Canada roster since the 80s and there's always some weird snubs, because the braintrust outthinks itself. Yzerman cut in 1987 and then again in 1991. Dirk Graham, Norman Rochefort, Rob Zamuner, Kirk Maltby...Team Canada has always left good players off in order to take lesser ones. It rarely costs Canada, because our depth is incredible, and the management can afford a few mistakes, but I would guess if you actually went back and analyzed game by game what these players did in the tournaments compared to their peers, you'd find that they don't shine.

Team Canada won't suffer much for taking Couture over Hall. Couture is not exactly Zamuner, after all, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision and it doesn't say something about Taylor Hall - a player who consistently drove the play while playing with one of the worst teams in the league, and who's shown in the last couple of World Championships that he can play with the best players in the world and be a force.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676239 is a reply to message #676222 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If I had to guess (and I have been a Hall supporter since day 1) I would say the knocks on Hall in the meetings would be like this:

Defensive responsibility, lack of PK experience. After all he would likely be bottom 6 F when in, and probably 13th F some nights just due to depth.

Lack of playoff/pressure experience. Yes, back to back Mem cups counts for something, but this is not junior.

Attitude. This is blown way out of proportion, but if all else is equal and Hall has the question marks in the attitude department (right or wrong) and the other guy doesn't.....

For the record Hall makes my team Canada, but Couture is a great pick too.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676228 is a reply to message #676217 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 10:46

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 27 May 2016 17:32

Well it looks like Taylor Hall has been snubbed again, despite being a rock solid soldier at the Worlds for a few years now, and performing extremely well the past few weeks for Canada.

Could be a positive if it lights a (further) fire under him for the upcoming season, and also in that he'll avoid potential injury in a meaningless farce of a tournament. But still, it's annoying to see a top-5 LW in the entire game get overlooked time and again simply because of the team he plays for.



And snubbed yet again. With Jamie Benn unable to play, the Team Canada braintrust decides to bring on the perma-scowl, asking Logan Couture to join the team.


If I was a NJ fan, this would make me very concerned icon_biggrin

Honestly though, Couture is a better hockey player than Hall. See no issue with this pick.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676231 is a reply to message #676228 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 10:46

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 27 May 2016 17:32

Well it looks like Taylor Hall has been snubbed again, despite being a rock solid soldier at the Worlds for a few years now, and performing extremely well the past few weeks for Canada.

Could be a positive if it lights a (further) fire under him for the upcoming season, and also in that he'll avoid potential injury in a meaningless farce of a tournament. But still, it's annoying to see a top-5 LW in the entire game get overlooked time and again simply because of the team he plays for.



And snubbed yet again. With Jamie Benn unable to play, the Team Canada braintrust decides to bring on the perma-scowl, asking Logan Couture to join the team.


If I was a NJ fan, this would make me very concerned icon_biggrin

Honestly though, Couture is a better hockey player than Hall. See no issue with this pick.


Respectfully, I disagree. Hall has 5 more points in 42 less games playing with a much worse team. 5 on 5, I think Hall's been even more impressive.

I think that Hall's definitely got some negative association now with all the losing here, just as almost everyone else that Edmonton fans have hitched their hopes to in the past decade has. But I don't think that it's the player's fault that the team was as bad as it is, and I think it's pretty impressive the guys like Hall who've managed to progress their careers despite playing for a team that's been a graveyard for so many players over that time. It will be interesting to see Hall playing in a different team and different system...I only wish he wasn't still playing for a pretty terrible team...



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676232 is a reply to message #676231 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:17

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 10:46

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 27 May 2016 17:32

Well it looks like Taylor Hall has been snubbed again, despite being a rock solid soldier at the Worlds for a few years now, and performing extremely well the past few weeks for Canada.

Could be a positive if it lights a (further) fire under him for the upcoming season, and also in that he'll avoid potential injury in a meaningless farce of a tournament. But still, it's annoying to see a top-5 LW in the entire game get overlooked time and again simply because of the team he plays for.



And snubbed yet again. With Jamie Benn unable to play, the Team Canada braintrust decides to bring on the perma-scowl, asking Logan Couture to join the team.


If I was a NJ fan, this would make me very concerned icon_biggrin

Honestly though, Couture is a better hockey player than Hall. See no issue with this pick.


Respectfully, I disagree. Hall has 5 more points in 42 less games playing with a much worse team. 5 on 5, I think Hall's been even more impressive.

I think that Hall's definitely got some negative association now with all the losing here, just as almost everyone else that Edmonton fans have hitched their hopes to in the past decade has. But I don't think that it's the player's fault that the team was as bad as it is, and I think it's pretty impressive the guys like Hall who've managed to progress their careers despite playing for a team that's been a graveyard for so many players over that time. It will be interesting to see Hall playing in a different team and different system...I only wish he wasn't still playing for a pretty terrible team...


On points vs games. Hall has had free rein and every bit of offensive ice time we could feed him his whole career. Plus half his games every year are nothing to lose games. Couture has been expected to play in all 3 zones his entire career and take part in defending leads in probably 20 times or more as many meaningful games as Hall has had in his NHL career.

That's not to say Hall wouldn't be capable of playing a part on a winning team, but I think if Hall actually played for a team expecting to win with some real depth, his point production would have been reduced over his career. It's hard to compare production between players in such different situations. But, in my opinion, if i could pick 1 guy to help my team win an important game, at this point in their careers considering all of their experience, I would take Couture.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676235 is a reply to message #676232 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:22

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:17

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 10:46

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 27 May 2016 17:32

Well it looks like Taylor Hall has been snubbed again, despite being a rock solid soldier at the Worlds for a few years now, and performing extremely well the past few weeks for Canada.

Could be a positive if it lights a (further) fire under him for the upcoming season, and also in that he'll avoid potential injury in a meaningless farce of a tournament. But still, it's annoying to see a top-5 LW in the entire game get overlooked time and again simply because of the team he plays for.



And snubbed yet again. With Jamie Benn unable to play, the Team Canada braintrust decides to bring on the perma-scowl, asking Logan Couture to join the team.


If I was a NJ fan, this would make me very concerned icon_biggrin

Honestly though, Couture is a better hockey player than Hall. See no issue with this pick.


Respectfully, I disagree. Hall has 5 more points in 42 less games playing with a much worse team. 5 on 5, I think Hall's been even more impressive.

I think that Hall's definitely got some negative association now with all the losing here, just as almost everyone else that Edmonton fans have hitched their hopes to in the past decade has. But I don't think that it's the player's fault that the team was as bad as it is, and I think it's pretty impressive the guys like Hall who've managed to progress their careers despite playing for a team that's been a graveyard for so many players over that time. It will be interesting to see Hall playing in a different team and different system...I only wish he wasn't still playing for a pretty terrible team...


On points vs games. Hall has had free rein and every bit of offensive ice time we could feed him his whole career. Plus half his games every year are nothing to lose games. Couture has been expected to play in all 3 zones his entire career and take part in defending leads in probably 20 times or more as many meaningful games as Hall has had in his NHL career.

That's not to say Hall wouldn't be capable of playing a part on a winning team, but I think if Hall actually played for a team expecting to win with some real depth, his point production would have been reduced over his career. It's hard to compare production between players in such different situations. But, in my opinion, if i could pick 1 guy to help my team win an important game, at this point in their careers considering all of their experience, I would take Couture.



I don't think Hall's been reckless at defence in search of more points. I think the burden or responsibility on Hall has probably been a lot heavier than with Couture.

We're not likely to agree on this one - I think Couture is a very good player, but I would take Hall every day of the week before him.

FWIW, I do admit that Couture had an amazing playoff run, and that has to factor heavily in to this discussion.

[Updated on: Tue, 23 August 2016 12:33]


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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676237 is a reply to message #676235 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:28

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:22

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:17

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 10:46

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 27 May 2016 17:32

Well it looks like Taylor Hall has been snubbed again, despite being a rock solid soldier at the Worlds for a few years now, and performing extremely well the past few weeks for Canada.

Could be a positive if it lights a (further) fire under him for the upcoming season, and also in that he'll avoid potential injury in a meaningless farce of a tournament. But still, it's annoying to see a top-5 LW in the entire game get overlooked time and again simply because of the team he plays for.



And snubbed yet again. With Jamie Benn unable to play, the Team Canada braintrust decides to bring on the perma-scowl, asking Logan Couture to join the team.


If I was a NJ fan, this would make me very concerned icon_biggrin

Honestly though, Couture is a better hockey player than Hall. See no issue with this pick.


Respectfully, I disagree. Hall has 5 more points in 42 less games playing with a much worse team. 5 on 5, I think Hall's been even more impressive.

I think that Hall's definitely got some negative association now with all the losing here, just as almost everyone else that Edmonton fans have hitched their hopes to in the past decade has. But I don't think that it's the player's fault that the team was as bad as it is, and I think it's pretty impressive the guys like Hall who've managed to progress their careers despite playing for a team that's been a graveyard for so many players over that time. It will be interesting to see Hall playing in a different team and different system...I only wish he wasn't still playing for a pretty terrible team...


On points vs games. Hall has had free rein and every bit of offensive ice time we could feed him his whole career. Plus half his games every year are nothing to lose games. Couture has been expected to play in all 3 zones his entire career and take part in defending leads in probably 20 times or more as many meaningful games as Hall has had in his NHL career.

That's not to say Hall wouldn't be capable of playing a part on a winning team, but I think if Hall actually played for a team expecting to win with some real depth, his point production would have been reduced over his career. It's hard to compare production between players in such different situations. But, in my opinion, if i could pick 1 guy to help my team win an important game, at this point in their careers considering all of their experience, I would take Couture.



I don't think Hall's been reckless at defence in search of more points. I think the burden or responsibility on Hall has probably been a lot heavier than with Couture.

We're not likely to agree on this one - I think Couture is a very good player, but I would take Hall every day of the week before him.


I dunno, I think the kids cheated plenty early on in their careers for offense. They have improved as years went on and I'd say Hall's decrease in production the last couple years reflects that a bit. Outside of a couple magic months with Drai, he has been pretty average the last 2 years.

Burden to perform, I guess there are 2 ways to look at that. The burden to be one of the main guys trying to go all out to try to pile up points playing freewheeling hockey. That's been Hall's pressure most of his career, and it suits him for sure, he wants to be the guy that all offense works though and his yelling for the puck all the time shows it, as well as his dissatisfaction when a certain Russian guy doesn't pass it to him when he wants icon_wink.

Then there's the pressure to win close games that matter. Making the right plays, playing a team game, playing in all zones and all situations. Hall's favorite move of losing the puck as he rushes through the neutral zone trying to do everything himself, that kind of thing would not fly on a team that expects to win every night.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676238 is a reply to message #676237 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 14:21

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:28

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:22

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:17

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 12:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 10:46

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 27 May 2016 17:32

Well it looks like Taylor Hall has been snubbed again, despite being a rock solid soldier at the Worlds for a few years now, and performing extremely well the past few weeks for Canada.

Could be a positive if it lights a (further) fire under him for the upcoming season, and also in that he'll avoid potential injury in a meaningless farce of a tournament. But still, it's annoying to see a top-5 LW in the entire game get overlooked time and again simply because of the team he plays for.



And snubbed yet again. With Jamie Benn unable to play, the Team Canada braintrust decides to bring on the perma-scowl, asking Logan Couture to join the team.


If I was a NJ fan, this would make me very concerned icon_biggrin

Honestly though, Couture is a better hockey player than Hall. See no issue with this pick.


Respectfully, I disagree. Hall has 5 more points in 42 less games playing with a much worse team. 5 on 5, I think Hall's been even more impressive.

I think that Hall's definitely got some negative association now with all the losing here, just as almost everyone else that Edmonton fans have hitched their hopes to in the past decade has. But I don't think that it's the player's fault that the team was as bad as it is, and I think it's pretty impressive the guys like Hall who've managed to progress their careers despite playing for a team that's been a graveyard for so many players over that time. It will be interesting to see Hall playing in a different team and different system...I only wish he wasn't still playing for a pretty terrible team...


On points vs games. Hall has had free rein and every bit of offensive ice time we could feed him his whole career. Plus half his games every year are nothing to lose games. Couture has been expected to play in all 3 zones his entire career and take part in defending leads in probably 20 times or more as many meaningful games as Hall has had in his NHL career.

That's not to say Hall wouldn't be capable of playing a part on a winning team, but I think if Hall actually played for a team expecting to win with some real depth, his point production would have been reduced over his career. It's hard to compare production between players in such different situations. But, in my opinion, if i could pick 1 guy to help my team win an important game, at this point in their careers considering all of their experience, I would take Couture.



I don't think Hall's been reckless at defence in search of more points. I think the burden or responsibility on Hall has probably been a lot heavier than with Couture.

We're not likely to agree on this one - I think Couture is a very good player, but I would take Hall every day of the week before him.


I dunno, I think the kids cheated plenty early on in their careers for offense. They have improved as years went on and I'd say Hall's decrease in production the last couple years reflects that a bit. Outside of a couple magic months with Drai, he has been pretty average the last 2 years.

Burden to perform, I guess there are 2 ways to look at that. The burden to be one of the main guys trying to go all out to try to pile up points playing freewheeling hockey. That's been Hall's pressure most of his career, and it suits him for sure, he wants to be the guy that all offense works though and his yelling for the puck all the time shows it, as well as his dissatisfaction when a certain Russian guy doesn't pass it to him when he wants icon_wink.

Then there's the pressure to win close games that matter. Making the right plays, playing a team game, playing in all zones and all situations. Hall's favorite move of losing the puck as he rushes through the neutral zone trying to do everything himself, that kind of thing would not fly on a team that expects to win every night.


Ha ha...I do get the impression that you had soured on Hall by the end of his time here...

Hall's had the burden until last year of being the cornerstone of a rebuild, hampered by pretty terrible builders above him. There has been a lot of pressure on him, while he's dealt with a carousel of players and coaches that have been assigned some level of blame and sent away. He's borne the scrutiny of the masses here, and he's grown up in the spotlight.

You're a believer in fancy stats, and looking past the viewer bias, and I think the "losing the puck as he rushes" is definitely a viewer bias. It has definitely happened, but is that the most common result when he's rushed the puck?

I never liked the shows of frustration with Yakupov and with some other teammates, but I think that's a teaching issue - something that is easier to do when the management isn't constantly declaring the player blameless and untouchable and perfect.

The biggest thing that I think hurt Hall's numbers the last two years has been the team's inability to put together a decent powerplay (that and some injury issues in 2014-15). He's one of the league leaders at 5-on-5, but with the man advantage, the number is shockingly low. It accounts for less than 20% of his offence the last two years (12 of 65 points last year, 6 of 38 the year before.)

I've seen Staples write about how Hall isn't a good PP player, but he had a well over a third of his points with the man advantage in his second season under Renney - 21 of 53, and under Krueger he scored 14 of his 50 points (in 46 games) with the man advantage. In recent years, the team always uses him down low below the goal line, which has always seemed an odd spot for him. It removes him as a shooting threat most of the time, and he has only a couple of passing options from there as well. Because of where they have him stand, he's not a threat to get to rebounds or screen the goalie. It's been a very odd strategy and I hope they don't just stick Lucic in the corner this year, as I think it's a waste of the extra man.

As I said though, I get it with Couture because he had a monster playoffs, but I think Hall is overall the better player and I still hate that mopey jerk from San Jose.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676240 is a reply to message #676238 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 14:46



Ha ha...I do get the impression that you had soured on Hall by the end of his time here...

Hall's had the burden until last year of being the cornerstone of a rebuild, hampered by pretty terrible builders above him. There has been a lot of pressure on him, while he's dealt with a carousel of players and coaches that have been assigned some level of blame and sent away. He's borne the scrutiny of the masses here, and he's grown up in the spotlight.

You're a believer in fancy stats, and looking past the viewer bias, and I think the "losing the puck as he rushes" is definitely a viewer bias. It has definitely happened, but is that the most common result when he's rushed the puck?

I never liked the shows of frustration with Yakupov and with some other teammates, but I think that's a teaching issue - something that is easier to do when the management isn't constantly declaring the player blameless and untouchable and perfect.

The biggest thing that I think hurt Hall's numbers the last two years has been the team's inability to put together a decent powerplay (that and some injury issues in 2014-15). He's one of the league leaders at 5-on-5, but with the man advantage, the number is shockingly low. It accounts for less than 20% of his offence the last two years (12 of 65 points last year, 6 of 38 the year before.)

I've seen Staples write about how Hall isn't a good PP player, but he had a well over a third of his points with the man advantage in his second season under Renney - 21 of 53, and under Krueger he scored 14 of his 50 points (in 46 games) with the man advantage. In recent years, the team always uses him down low below the goal line, which has always seemed an odd spot for him. It removes him as a shooting threat most of the time, and he has only a couple of passing options from there as well. Because of where they have him stand, he's not a threat to get to rebounds or screen the goalie. It's been a very odd strategy and I hope they don't just stick Lucic in the corner this year, as I think it's a waste of the extra man.

As I said though, I get it with Couture because he had a monster playoffs, but I think Hall is overall the better player and I still hate that mopey jerk from San Jose.


I'm actually just finding that some friendly Hall bashing is a fun way to pass the time until the season starts :)

Kind of a response to all the "fancy stat" people proclaiming what a piece of garbage Larsson is because of his Corsi stats while completely ignoring his zone starts.

Hall was definitely better on the PP with competent coaching. Not being a very cerebral player, I'm not surprised he has been the biggest victim of incompetent PP coaching under Eakins and Woodcroft. He really is way behind his peers in PP scoring the last 2 years:

McDavid - 125 mins - 6.47 P/60
Ebs - 385 mins - 4.98 P/60
Nuge - 342 mins - 4.38 P/60
Poulion - 244 mins - 3.69 P/60
Derek Roy - 117 mins - 3.59 P/60
Yak - 256 mins - 3.51 P/60
Lander - 127 mins - 3.31 P/60
Hall - 356 mins - 3.03 P/60

And, he does lose the puck at a lot when he goes into his mode of trying to do everything himself, which I suspect is the "not playing his best" that Klef was really talking about :)




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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676241 is a reply to message #676240 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Those powerplay numbers are shocking.

I suspect that on a lot of other teams powerplays, the down-low guy doubles as the net front presence, but the Oilers always had Hall pretty wide out from the net. It makes him an easier target for the guy on the sideboards, but it means he's too far away from the net to be much use if there's a one-timer on the point blast or the cross-seam pass.

If I had to pick a flaw in Hall's game, I think the biggest one was his passing, so giving him a responsibility on the PP where he's basically only got passing options is not exactly playing to his strengths.

It would be interesting to go back and see how the powerplay set up under Renney and Krueger and how it differed from the approach the last couple of seasons.

As much as Hall's suffered, I look at Nuge's powerplay numbers and wonder what happened to the powerplay whiz we drafted. Remember the concerns on draft day that a freakishly high number of his points came with the man advantage? Well, his scoring rates on the powerplay have been pretty consistently dwindling since he first came in to the league.

It does frustrate me the level of sickness within the Oilers organization and how it just seems to infect everything eventually...I pray McDavid can rise above...



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676242 is a reply to message #676241 ]
Tue, 23 August 2016 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 23 August 2016 15:47

Those powerplay numbers are shocking.

I suspect that on a lot of other teams powerplays, the down-low guy doubles as the net front presence, but the Oilers always had Hall pretty wide out from the net. It makes him an easier target for the guy on the sideboards, but it means he's too far away from the net to be much use if there's a one-timer on the point blast or the cross-seam pass.

If I had to pick a flaw in Hall's game, I think the biggest one was his passing, so giving him a responsibility on the PP where he's basically only got passing options is not exactly playing to his strengths.

It would be interesting to go back and see how the powerplay set up under Renney and Krueger and how it differed from the approach the last couple of seasons.

As much as Hall's suffered, I look at Nuge's powerplay numbers and wonder what happened to the powerplay whiz we drafted. Remember the concerns on draft day that a freakishly high number of his points came with the man advantage? Well, his scoring rates on the powerplay have been pretty consistently dwindling since he first came in to the league.

It does frustrate me the level of sickness within the Oilers organization and how it just seems to infect everything eventually...I pray McDavid can rise above...


I think Hall's best time on the PP were with a right handed guy feeding him for 1 timers. Gags and Hemsky. Hall has a pretty good 1-timer, but since the Eakins days, 1-timers were kinda outlawed in Oilers PP-land, except for that little while with Nelson where the Yak 1-timer made a short appearance.

Hall was definitely very frustrating on the PP last season. I think how we used him was one of the main reasons our PP was complete garbage without McDavid in the lineup. Expecting Hall to be a playmaker was a horrible decision.

As for Nuge and the rest, I think Krueger leaving is the biggest reason they have all seen a drop off of PP performance. We simply haven't had coaches that are good at making the most of what we have running the PP, aside from some Nelson time. We have had stubborn coaches trying to pound square pegs in round holes, and it has been almost completely up to individual efforts to produce with the man advantage. It was pretty much McDavid or nothing last year. The year before, it was just nothing until Eakins was finally canned. I don't want to think how bad our PP would have been last year without McDavid. Well, actually I guess it would have been 30th, since that's the rate it was scoring at without McDavid in the lineup.

[Updated on: Tue, 23 August 2016 16:07]


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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676244 is a reply to message #671925 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/

[Updated on: Wed, 24 August 2016 07:53]


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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676246 is a reply to message #676244 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676247 is a reply to message #676246 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


I don't know why people would be upset about what he's saying. We've seen a parade of people leave Edmonton thrilled to be moving on, so seeing that this devastated Hall to the point where he's still bothered by it? I think that says he really cared and that he wanted to win here.

They threw him a question about what it was like to be scoring in Edmonton and the team still losing, and Hall didn't take the bait. He said that he was responsible for the losing too. Said he knew he played some good hockey, and what kind of hockey player he could be but that he wasn't ultimately able to win here and had to share the blame for that.

We've had superstars demand a trade away from here. We've had guys giddy about leaving and guys who probably could not be paid enough to stay away. We've been one of the top teams on the No-Move lists for years, so I don't really think it's a bad thing when we have a player who's devastated that he got traded away from Edmonton and its epically bad hockey team.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676248 is a reply to message #676247 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


I don't know why people would be upset about what he's saying. We've seen a parade of people leave Edmonton thrilled to be moving on, so seeing that this devastated Hall to the point where he's still bothered by it? I think that says he really cared and that he wanted to win here.

They threw him a question about what it was like to be scoring in Edmonton and the team still losing, and Hall didn't take the bait. He said that he was responsible for the losing too. Said he knew he played some good hockey, and what kind of hockey player he could be but that he wasn't ultimately able to win here and had to share the blame for that.

We've had superstars demand a trade away from here. We've had guys giddy about leaving and guys who probably could not be paid enough to stay away. We've been one of the top teams on the No-Move lists for years, so I don't really think it's a bad thing when we have a player who's devastated that he got traded away from Edmonton and its epically bad hockey team.


Depends if he's mad about not being an Oiler anymore, or mad that his opinion of how he is this super amazing special guy and godly hockey player that no one should ever think badly of is being threatened. I personally think it's the latter. Can't get over his greatness being questioned and can't fathom still why the Oilers would have got rid of such a perfect hockey player specimen.

[Updated on: Wed, 24 August 2016 09:41]


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- #2, April 2015

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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676251 is a reply to message #676248 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:39

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


I don't know why people would be upset about what he's saying. We've seen a parade of people leave Edmonton thrilled to be moving on, so seeing that this devastated Hall to the point where he's still bothered by it? I think that says he really cared and that he wanted to win here.

They threw him a question about what it was like to be scoring in Edmonton and the team still losing, and Hall didn't take the bait. He said that he was responsible for the losing too. Said he knew he played some good hockey, and what kind of hockey player he could be but that he wasn't ultimately able to win here and had to share the blame for that.

We've had superstars demand a trade away from here. We've had guys giddy about leaving and guys who probably could not be paid enough to stay away. We've been one of the top teams on the No-Move lists for years, so I don't really think it's a bad thing when we have a player who's devastated that he got traded away from Edmonton and its epically bad hockey team.


Depends if he's mad about not being an Oiler anymore, or mad that his opinion of how he is this super amazing special guy and godly hockey player that no one should ever think badly of is being threatened. I personally think it's the latter. Can't get over his greatness being questioned and can't fathom still why the Oilers would have got rid of such a perfect hockey player specimen.


Are you being tongue in cheek here?

Hall's talking about how much he liked the guys, how much he appreciated the passion of the fans...I don't think there's a lot in what he's said that looks bad on him.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676258 is a reply to message #676251 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 10:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:39

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


I don't know why people would be upset about what he's saying. We've seen a parade of people leave Edmonton thrilled to be moving on, so seeing that this devastated Hall to the point where he's still bothered by it? I think that says he really cared and that he wanted to win here.

They threw him a question about what it was like to be scoring in Edmonton and the team still losing, and Hall didn't take the bait. He said that he was responsible for the losing too. Said he knew he played some good hockey, and what kind of hockey player he could be but that he wasn't ultimately able to win here and had to share the blame for that.

We've had superstars demand a trade away from here. We've had guys giddy about leaving and guys who probably could not be paid enough to stay away. We've been one of the top teams on the No-Move lists for years, so I don't really think it's a bad thing when we have a player who's devastated that he got traded away from Edmonton and its epically bad hockey team.


Depends if he's mad about not being an Oiler anymore, or mad that his opinion of how he is this super amazing special guy and godly hockey player that no one should ever think badly of is being threatened. I personally think it's the latter. Can't get over his greatness being questioned and can't fathom still why the Oilers would have got rid of such a perfect hockey player specimen.


Are you being tongue in cheek here?

Hall's talking about how much he liked the guys, how much he appreciated the passion of the fans...I don't think there's a lot in what he's said that looks bad on him.



He also projected negativity on his ex-teammates, saying they will get to feel what he is feeling now when they're traded. What I jerk!

I thought I made my intentions known earlier in the thread :)

I still would rather have Couture on my team for a must win game than Hall though.

[Updated on: Wed, 24 August 2016 11:26]


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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676259 is a reply to message #676258 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 11:43 Go to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 11:24

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 10:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:39

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


I don't know why people would be upset about what he's saying. We've seen a parade of people leave Edmonton thrilled to be moving on, so seeing that this devastated Hall to the point where he's still bothered by it? I think that says he really cared and that he wanted to win here.

They threw him a question about what it was like to be scoring in Edmonton and the team still losing, and Hall didn't take the bait. He said that he was responsible for the losing too. Said he knew he played some good hockey, and what kind of hockey player he could be but that he wasn't ultimately able to win here and had to share the blame for that.

We've had superstars demand a trade away from here. We've had guys giddy about leaving and guys who probably could not be paid enough to stay away. We've been one of the top teams on the No-Move lists for years, so I don't really think it's a bad thing when we have a player who's devastated that he got traded away from Edmonton and its epically bad hockey team.


Depends if he's mad about not being an Oiler anymore, or mad that his opinion of how he is this super amazing special guy and godly hockey player that no one should ever think badly of is being threatened. I personally think it's the latter. Can't get over his greatness being questioned and can't fathom still why the Oilers would have got rid of such a perfect hockey player specimen.


Are you being tongue in cheek here?

Hall's talking about how much he liked the guys, how much he appreciated the passion of the fans...I don't think there's a lot in what he's said that looks bad on him.



He also projected negativity on his ex-teammates, saying they will get to feel what he is feeling now when they're traded. What I jerk!

I thought I made my intentions known earlier in the thread :)

I still would rather have Couture on my team for a must win game than Hall though.


Couture also has the fact that he is fresh in the minds of all the Canada guys being that he was in the Cup final and had a fantastic playoff. 30 pts in 24 games it pretty awesome. He had 11 more pts than Crosby in the same amount of games.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676254 is a reply to message #676248 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:39

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 09:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


I don't know why people would be upset about what he's saying. We've seen a parade of people leave Edmonton thrilled to be moving on, so seeing that this devastated Hall to the point where he's still bothered by it? I think that says he really cared and that he wanted to win here.

They threw him a question about what it was like to be scoring in Edmonton and the team still losing, and Hall didn't take the bait. He said that he was responsible for the losing too. Said he knew he played some good hockey, and what kind of hockey player he could be but that he wasn't ultimately able to win here and had to share the blame for that.

We've had superstars demand a trade away from here. We've had guys giddy about leaving and guys who probably could not be paid enough to stay away. We've been one of the top teams on the No-Move lists for years, so I don't really think it's a bad thing when we have a player who's devastated that he got traded away from Edmonton and its epically bad hockey team.


Depends if he's mad about not being an Oiler anymore, or mad that his opinion of how he is this super amazing special guy and godly hockey player that no one should ever think badly of is being threatened. I personally think it's the latter. Can't get over his greatness being questioned and can't fathom still why the Oilers would have got rid of such a perfect hockey player specimen.


I was a little surprised about Hall's latest comments as well. When he first got traded of course you would expect him to be shocked, pissed, sad, whatever emotion. When you have a player like McDavid, you have to think that Hall before he was traded maybe started to think there was light at the end of the tunnel. Before that, he may not have. Before McDavid, I bet all the losing was weighing on him, how can it not. But with McDavid, I bet he had hope again. So I have no doubt that he was pissed and really disappointed to be traded. But it's coming on 2 months now. All that should be gone by now but clearly it's not.

I heard in one interview that he took some of the blame for the teams woes on him that he could have been better. Rightly so, he was their best player, he should have been better and if he was, they would have been marginally better. But a lot of Oilers players could have and should have played a hell of a lot better, so it's not all on Hall. But in those interviews, he said that there were holes in the lineup and they probably needed a dman or 2. If you as a player know the Oilers need a dman and if based on what I hear, Hall is a hockey nut that follows it a ton, you have to know to get a good dman, it will cost a lot. So maybe you don't like the fact you got traded but look around the dressing room. You are one of the best players on a lousy, under achieving team so unless you are totally stupid, you have to know you are one of the few guys that can get the Oilers something that you yourself supposedly know you need badly. So while you may not like the fact you are traded, what did he think was going to happen? Yak and a prospect isn't going to get you anything, even he knows that.

I always liked Hall, he was one of my favorites. I heard all hater fans talking about how he was a whiner and not good in the room but I never believed it. I have cousins you said that all the time. But the more I listen to Hall and the fact that 2 months later, he's still outwardly pissed about being traded and I am starting to think that maybe my cousins were right and he is a whiner. I totally expect a pro athlete to use being traded as motivation. You want to show your old team they made a mistake. I expect him to have a very good game every time he plays the Oilers. That's what he should do. But after 2 months, he should have moved on. With McDavid, Hall wasn't going to be the face of the Oilers anymore. Now he's "THE GUY" in New Jersey just like he should want. After 2 months, he should be embracing that, "this is my new team, I'm the guy, here is what I will do. I'm going to bring the Devils up and we will kick the butts of the Oilers every time." Instead he's moping in the corner. Instead he's "aww man, look at McDavid, look at the Oilers, they didn't want me, the Oilers are going to be good, waaa." I don't like it.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676256 is a reply to message #676246 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 2833
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


Meh, I can't get too upset about this.

After living through players always anxious to get out of Edmonton or wanting to be traded, it's actually nice to occasionally (and actually more frequently lately) talk about how they didn't want to be traded and how upset it made them. I would way prefer Hall talk to the Toronto media about how he was upset to be traded and how he didn't want to leave and wanted to be part of the solution and felt he was a guy who could help the Oilers, then for him to talk about how he was excited to leave and how it was unhealthy and he didn't like it here. You know people would run with that (although apparently we're also running with this?).

I'm fine with it. I'm glad he wanted to be part of the solution. And sure it's part of the game, and I'm sure he understands that, but I don't mind him being upset. He was drafted to helped resurrect the franchise, and he wasn't able to, and I'm sure that kind of eats at him. It's what makes him a competitor and winner; I'd be more concerned if it didn't affect him at all.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676257 is a reply to message #676256 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3977
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 10:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 08:49

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 August 2016 07:51

Hall was on Tim & Sid last night:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/tim-and-sid-show/sometimes-fee l-got-short-end-stick-taylor-hall-ts/

Still seems like he feels he was punished by getting traded. He doesn't understand that he's just an asset for a team to use however they believe is best for them.

Also an article where he gives much the same message:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-not-e asy-getting-oilers-trade/


Saw that too. Talking about getting the short end of the stick, being slighted. Not even Subban has whined this much about being traded and his case was actually insulting, being traded right before his new long term deal kicked in.

People should really ask him what he would have liked to see instead, since he was too special to be traded. Who does he think should have got the short end to fix the team?


Meh, I can't get too upset about this.

After living through players always anxious to get out of Edmonton or wanting to be traded, it's actually nice to occasionally (and actually more frequently lately) talk about how they didn't want to be traded and how upset it made them. I would way prefer Hall talk to the Toronto media about how he was upset to be traded and how he didn't want to leave and wanted to be part of the solution and felt he was a guy who could help the Oilers, then for him to talk about how he was excited to leave and how it was unhealthy and he didn't like it here. You know people would run with that (although apparently we're also running with this?).

I'm fine with it. I'm glad he wanted to be part of the solution. And sure it's part of the game, and I'm sure he understands that, but I don't mind him being upset. He was drafted to helped resurrect the franchise, and he wasn't able to, and I'm sure that kind of eats at him. It's what makes him a competitor and winner; I'd be more concerned if it didn't affect him at all.


I don't blame Hall for being very upset by the trade 2 months ago but if I was a Devil, I would have hoped he'd moved on after 2 months instead of still being extremely sour about it and not hiding it one bit. Where I am coming from is when you as a player identify one of the main problems with your team and literally point it out as needing more defense. As much as the previous managers screwed up things, it's not like this defense problem came out of no where 2 months ago. They have been trying to address it for years - poorly done - for by signing guys, trading for guys, plucking guys off of waivers hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. To no ones surprise it didn't work. They aren't going to trade McDavid, Yak is worth nothing, they have a bunch of young, unproven guys. Then there was himself, Nuge, Eberle who are the only players that have remotely any value on the team. He knows he's a lot better than Eberle and Nuge but he's shocked it took trading a really good player to get a good player. What did he expect would happen.



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 Re: World Cup Roster-- Hall snubbed again [message #676252 is a reply to message #671925 ]
Wed, 24 August 2016 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
Messages: 2289
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Well with Jamie Benn unable to make the world cup, Hall was passed over again.

Interesting that he was passed over yet again.

As for Hall leaving and hearing him still talk about it endears me to him, but he's never been traded before not in junior not in the OHL, nowhere, so maybe a bruised ego that he didn't fit the Oilers plans?

Of course I'm playing devils' advocate here, but could it be said where there is smoke?! Now being passed over the world cup?

The boy has a ton to prove.



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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