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 Oilers » Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9)Pages (4): [1  2  3  4  >  »]
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 Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498908]
Thu, 22 October 2009 21:50 Go to next message
OilFans  is currently offline OilFans
Messages: 3653
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

3 Cups

4
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Final

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498921 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
Messages: 1516
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

I'm pretty damn happy I didn't give up when it was 4-1. Go Oilers!!


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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498926 is a reply to message #498921 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oil22  is currently offline oil22
Messages: 213
Registered: November 2008

No Cups

JonProject wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:05

I'm pretty damn happy I didn't give up when it was 4-1. Go Oilers!!

Ya you had a good game, eh!



June 2006"Goalie's not good. Won't be back in the series."
June 2010 "With the historic first selection in the national hockey league draft 2010, I'm extremely excited to select ..."
FROM HEARTBREAK TO HOPE OIL COUNTRY CARRIES ON.

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498931 is a reply to message #498926 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Copperoiler  is currently offline Copperoiler
Messages: 1055
Registered: March 2004

1 Cup

So I guess that 1st line's gonna be okay...not a bad effort...

Hahaha.....hot damn I'm loving this team right now....never say die....

I can't wait until Brule and Souray are back too...

This is a dangerous team again...

Love it!



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/Copperoiler/4drktfn.gif
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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498953 is a reply to message #498926 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
Messages: 1516
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Thanks smarty pants. I meant I'm glad I didn't change the channel when it appeared a meltdown was happening.

Great comeback! Go Oilers!



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #499016 is a reply to message #498921 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently online MJ
Messages: 2344
Registered: November 1997
Location: Victoria

2 Cups

JonProject wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:05

I'm pretty damn happy I didn't give up when it was 4-1. Go Oilers!!


Ditto. I was sitting with a bunch of rowdy university students watching that one. After the 4-1 goal, a couple guys at the table figured the next move was finish this beer and get outta here.

That attitude lasted all of what, 30 seconds?

A real barn burner. Nice to see a legitimate top line for I dare say the first time this season. Sustainable? Maybe. But I'll worry about that after the weekend and these 3 games in 4 nights is over. I look forward to the weekend games on the road. This will be a great test.

And YAY Hemsky!!! Somewhere his 5 point game is getting overshadowed by that 6'5" imposter dressed us up as Dustin Penner for Halloween.



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498922 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4865
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

4 Cups

Stupid coach taking Horcoff off the 1st line.... rofl

Penner - WOW. Not sure what else to say. That was probably for me the most enjoyable game since the SCF in 06. Love it.



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498924 is a reply to message #498922 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ubigo  is currently offline Ubigo
Messages: 213
Registered: August 2005
Location: Regina

No Cups

Penner has done NOTHING SINCE HE HAS GOTTEN HERE.


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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498923 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oil Tycoon  is currently offline Oil Tycoon
Messages: 765
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Location: St.Catharines, Ontario

No Cups

WOW! Just WOW! Huge win and what a way to set it up for the village of cows and the land of the weed smokers on the weekend!
Penner Rocks!!!! rock



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498925 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
huynh  is currently offline huynh
Messages: 556
Registered: September 2002
Location: Calgary

No Cups

Wow, what a game, what a come back.

We all love Penner now!!
The 1st line actually looked like a top line!! 13 points between the three of them.

Visnovsky is my 3rd or 4th star for tonight.



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498928 is a reply to message #498925 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beerfish Revisited  is currently offline Beerfish Revisited
Messages: 1472
Registered: May 2005

1 Cup

If MacT was still the coach of this team he would have benched Penner after that iffy goaltending interference penalty he took.


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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498935 is a reply to message #498925 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Oil  is currently offline Dr. Oil
Messages: 1270
Registered: June 2003
Location: BC

1 Cup

huynh wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 21:06


Visnovsky is my 3rd or 4th star for tonight.


He's a stud. Skates the puck up the ice better than anyone on the team, including Hemmer. Also helping Smid become a stud.

Penner is a beauty. With the chances he created tonight, he could have had 8-9 points. Every shift is dangerous. You can tell he's trying to perfect the art of roofing it from in close. He often tries the sharp angle shot over the goalie's shoulder short side. If he can get that going, he'll be even deadlier.



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498940 is a reply to message #498935 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4865
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4 Cups

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 01:11

He's a stud. Skates the puck up the ice better than anyone on the team, including Hemmer. Also helping Smid become a stud.


I'm loving the way Smid is just being a nasty prick in front of our net. Whacking people in the legs, facewashes...Plus he's contributing offensively. AND he's among he league leaders in +/-.

I know it's early, but this version of Smid, Penner and Cogs is making it pretty easy to forget the almost deal for Heatley.




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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498968 is a reply to message #498940 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beerfish Revisited  is currently offline Beerfish Revisited
Messages: 1472
Registered: May 2005

1 Cup

Mikey wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:17

Dr. Oil wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 01:11

He's a stud. Skates the puck up the ice better than anyone on the team, including Hemmer. Also helping Smid become a stud.


I'm loving the way Smid is just being a nasty prick in front of our net. Whacking people in the legs, facewashes...Plus he's contributing offensively. AND he's among he league leaders in +/-.

I know it's early, but this version of Smid, Penner and Cogs is making it pretty easy to forget the almost deal for Heatley.




Smid - the boat anchor Staios = good player and he would have been much better in previous years if he didn't have to play Staios so much.



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 Lest we forget... [message #498984 is a reply to message #498968 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 01:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AY  is currently offline AY
Messages: 1803
Registered: December 2000

1 Cup

it was teamed with core member Staios that Smidly learned the more physical elements of the position. Especially, as has been noted, in front of the net and after the whistle go's.

Mentoring, that's what we call it.



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 Mikey? [message #498989 is a reply to message #498940 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 02:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AY  is currently offline AY
Messages: 1803
Registered: December 2000

1 Cup

Any day without that scourge/menace/criminal in an Oiler uniform is a good day.

(Andy spits on ground at thought of Heatley as an Edmonton Oiler)



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498929 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
Messages: 1206
Registered: January 2007
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Good game. Nice come from behind win.

Hopefully we can keep it going into the big games this wknd.

I mentioned it in the GDT but Ill say it again here. Anyone want to argue that Horcoff belongs on the first line now? Anyone want to talk about his defensive awareness, or his face off ability, or his tough minutes? Anyone want to try to tell us how "Hemsky needs Horcoff"? Anyone?

Id be very interested to hear that argument.

The Heatley non trade is looking like a huge blessing. If Penner keeps this up I'm not sure I trade 27 for Heatley straight up. He looks that good. He also looks like a leader. Quite intensity and just goes out and makes plays. Sure hope he can keep it up.

Speaking of leaders, Anyone seen our "captain"? I remember someone wearing a C on his chest taking a dumb penalty and then disappearing. That couldn't have been our captain though could it? The guy playing on the fourth line with Stortini and Macintyre and not looking out of place? Ridiculous.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 October 2009 22:19]


"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498934 is a reply to message #498929 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
Messages: 1206
Registered: January 2007
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Vish quietly a solid game again. The guy is an unbelievably smart player. Always a calming influence and a sharp play. Not to mention a bullet of a shot.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 October 2009 22:14]


"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Another player... [message #498988 is a reply to message #498934 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 01:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AY  is currently offline AY
Messages: 1803
Registered: December 2000

1 Cup

who, too my surprise didn't look totally outta place?

Nillson. #12. That guy. Decent work along the walls. Hockey Gods reward him with his first goal to boot!



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498930 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oil Tycoon  is currently offline Oil Tycoon
Messages: 765
Registered: March 2006
Location: St.Catharines, Ontario

No Cups

I find myself wondering what Burkie is thinking of the whole Penner affair now while he languishes in Loserville with lost prime pics with an injured player to show for it? icon_rolleyes


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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498932 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
Messages: 2890
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

2 Cups

Can't wait for the NYE game down here. Got some tix for that one--will be nice to see this new team :)


97.

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498933 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
Messages: 8559
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

6 Cups

Wow....

Gene came up with new questions for Penner. The new line combo and 5 point night a distraction?

Kudos are due to Gene. He has moved on.



#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498942 is a reply to message #498933 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilerPunch  is currently offline OilerPunch
Messages: 295
Registered: August 2006

No Cups

On the bright side Horcoff was only a -1 while his linemates were -2 and -3 respectively


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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498936 is a reply to message #498908 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 5815
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

Who would have thought Penner would look like this season's MVP.

Somewhere in a TSN studio somewhere, there's an ex-coach analyst with the blankest of expressions and mouth wide open in complete disbelief.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498939 is a reply to message #498936 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raoul Duke  is currently offline Raoul Duke
Messages: 131
Registered: October 2007

No Cups

nullterm wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:11

Who would have thought Penner would look like this season's MVP.
.


Yeah, I did.



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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498945 is a reply to message #498939 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
Messages: 2039
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Location: GP, AB

2 Cups

Raoul Duke wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:17

nullterm wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:11

Who would have thought Penner would look like this season's MVP.
.


Yeah, I did.


Yeah, me too.



CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498963 is a reply to message #498945 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boniman  is currently offline Boniman
Messages: 533
Registered: August 2005
Location: In your mom's room

No Cups

bigEfromGP wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:22

Raoul Duke wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:17

nullterm wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:11

Who would have thought Penner would look like this season's MVP.
.


Yeah, I did.


Yeah, me too.


Likewise. MacT was his own cancer.




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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498982 is a reply to message #498939 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bryanbryoil  is currently offline Bryanbryoil
Messages: 235
Registered: May 2002

No Cups

Raoul Duke wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 18:17

nullterm wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:11

Who would have thought Penner would look like this season's MVP.
.


Yeah, I did.


You sure did RD, you and I stood by the big man through thick and thin because we felt that he was getting the short end of the stick by MacT but always saw the talent that he possessed. While you and I said that he had the ability to be a Bertuzzi in his prime offensively we were laughed at. Who's laughing now? lmao rock



Speed and Hands

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 Can't have it both ways El Presidente... [message #498983 is a reply to message #498982 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 01:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AY  is currently offline AY
Messages: 1803
Registered: December 2000

1 Cup

The Penner, as he is officially known as now, was a much different beast than the one MacT had to deal with.

Did he get a second chance with Quinn? Absolutely. All the Oilers have.

Has he done a much, much better job personally preparing for the task at hand?

Take his word, not mine.

When BUF matched the Vaneck offer, loyal readers to the Big Time will recall the one thing we discussed was whether or not Lowe had the balls to go after Burkie's asset or not. The Penner was a natural second choice. Bertuzzi? The work around the net and the soft hands were the genuine comaprison. But, like MacT said, the contract was a starting point for The Penner... he could provide more.

The Penner did that tonight, and has had a remarkable season.

Power forward? These extraordinary players fight and are nasty. 100 PIM's a year minimum.

edit note: The Penner comes via inspiration from a caller to a post-game show a couple of games ago. The dude with a Frenchie accent.



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 Re: Can't have it both ways El Presidente... [message #498999 is a reply to message #498983 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beerfish Revisited  is currently offline Beerfish Revisited
Messages: 1472
Registered: May 2005

1 Cup

AY wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 01:37

The Penner, as he is officially known as now, was a much different beast than the one MacT had to deal with.

Did he get a second chance with Quinn? Absolutely. All the Oilers have.

Has he done a much, much better job personally preparing for the task at hand?

Take his word, not mine.

When BUF matched the Vaneck offer, loyal readers to the Big Time will recall the one thing we discussed was whether or not Lowe had the balls to go after Burkie's asset or not. The Penner was a natural second choice. Bertuzzi? The work around the net and the soft hands were the genuine comaprison. But, like MacT said, the contract was a starting point for The Penner... he could provide more.

The Penner did that tonight, and has had a remarkable season.

Power forward? These extraordinary players fight and are nasty. 100 PIM's a year minimum.

edit note: The Penner comes via inspiration from a caller to a post-game show a couple of games ago. The dude with a Frenchie accent.


Quit covering your rump with bafflegab. One just had to know that someone would pop on and declare. 'He's not the same player! Poor ole MacT had to contend with evil Penner.' This despite numbers to the contrary.

Penner scored as many goals as Horcoff did last year with half the ice time, playing with worse players and riding the pine. He was also a plus player and was either 1st or 2nd in our game winning goals. Penner was never as bad as the MacT sheeple evangalists declared.

One of the biggest attributes to being a good coach is to get the best out of your players, he clearly was a flat out failure in that regard for many players. He also had zero cred when he patted his favorites on the rump after another disasterous game and benched guys he disliked for small things.

As I said last night, if MacT was coaching last nights game Penner would have been stapled to the bench for the rest of the game after taking that iffy goaltender interference penalty.

Man up and admit you were so far out to lunch it wasn't funny. Just man up.



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 Re: Can't have it both ways El Presidente... [message #499002 is a reply to message #498999 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
Messages: 2039
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Location: GP, AB

2 Cups

Beerfish Revisited wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 07:47



Man up and admit you were so far out to lunch it wasn't funny. Just man up.


Never gonna happen.



CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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 Wrong... [message #499045 is a reply to message #498999 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AY  is currently offline AY
Messages: 1803
Registered: December 2000

1 Cup

quite simply, in the context of this season and The Penner's deft pass from yet again behind the net, there was rope to take advantage of.

In The Penner's own words post-game last night on the broadcast, he felt he owed it to his teammates to apply himself harder for redemption. I mean, he missed at some terrific scoring chances early.

The Penner of last season didn't care enough to have that mindset.



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 Re: Can't have it both ways El Presidente... [message #499113 is a reply to message #498999 ]
Fri, 23 October 2009 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chiefbender  is currently offline chiefbender
Messages: 766
Registered: December 2006
Location: Illinois

No Cups

Beerfish Revisited wrote on Fri, 23 October 2009 08:47




Penner scored as many goals as Horcoff did last year with half the ice time, playing with worse players and riding the pine. He was also a plus player and was either 1st or 2nd in our game winning goals. Penner was never as bad as the MacT sheeple evangalists declared.



That's the best description I've read. icon_lol



"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."

- Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498941 is a reply to message #498936 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JRock71  is currently offline JRock71
Messages: 448
Registered: November 2003
Location: Spruce Grove, AB

No Cups

Wow!! Incredible. All I can say is that the best trades are the one that are never made. Just think that we almost gave up on Penner for that whinny, selfish piece of Calgarian trash! Wouldn't be funny if Penner was picked on the Canadian Olympic Team ahead of Heatley...LOL

Great to Penner playing to his full potential and I must bet that K-Lowe has gotta be snickering at Burke now!! Just think that Burke is going to eat Humble pie when Boston Picks up a lottery pick! Hahahah!!!

Penner, Hemsky and Gagner looks like a great first line for sure.



" Right, people you have to tell me these things, okay? I've been frozen for thirty years, okay? Throw me a frickin' bone here! I'm the boss! Need the info.
" - Dr. Evil

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498946 is a reply to message #498941 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
Messages: 1206
Registered: January 2007
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

JRock71 wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:17

Wouldn't be funny if Penner was picked on the Canadian Olympic Team ahead of Heatley...LOL



I was actually considering this possibility earlier today. If he keeps playing like this he has to start getting consideration doesn't he? It would be a long shot, but K Lowe is on the committee I believe, and you simply cant ignore that kind of dominance.



"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498949 is a reply to message #498946 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Copperoiler  is currently offline Copperoiler
Messages: 1055
Registered: March 2004

1 Cup

Okay,

Seriously now...

Did anyone ever think they'd see this day...


Link that just looks wrong but is oh so right

Dustin Penner is now 2 points behind Alexander Ovechkin for the NHL scoring lead...

And the goaltending leader is kinda funny too...



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/Copperoiler/4drktfn.gif
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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498951 is a reply to message #498949 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Copperoiler  is currently offline Copperoiler
Messages: 1055
Registered: March 2004

1 Cup

...and I almost missed Smid @ #2 in the league for +/-


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/Copperoiler/4drktfn.gif
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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498955 is a reply to message #498949 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 5815
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

Copperoiler wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 21:27

Okay,

Seriously now...

Did anyone ever think they'd see this day...


Link that just looks wrong but is oh so right

Dustin Penner is now 2 points behind Alexander Ovechkin for the NHL scoring lead...

And the goaltending leader is kinda funny too...


Penner also tied with OV for 3rd in +/- just behind Smid.

JDD needs to etch a screenshot of that in brass & marble and mount that on his fireplace. lmao



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498956 is a reply to message #498949 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
Messages: 1206
Registered: January 2007
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Copperoiler wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:27

Okay,

Seriously now...

Did anyone ever think they'd see this day...


Link that just looks wrong but is oh so right

Dustin Penner is now 2 points behind Alexander Ovechkin for the NHL scoring lead...

And the goaltending leader is kinda funny too...


Damn....



"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Review: Columbus @ Edmonton (Game #9) [message #498960 is a reply to message #498949 ]
Thu, 22 October 2009 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
cableguy  is currently offline cableguy
Messages: 398
Registered: December 2005
Location: Victoria, BC

No Cups

Copperoiler wrote on Thu, 22 October 2009 22:27

Okay,

Seriously now...

Did anyone ever think they'd see this day...


Link that just looks wrong but is oh so right

Dustin Penner is now 2 points behind Alexander Ovechkin for the NHL scoring lead...

And the goaltending leader is kinda funny too...


Penner is a bargain icon_wink



Still jaded but we've got McDavid

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