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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820393 is a reply to message #812389 ]
Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820394 is a reply to message #820393 ]
Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820395 is a reply to message #820394 ]
Fri, 31 March 2023 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilertime is currently offline Oilertime
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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?


Didn't wear the pride jersey.

https://twitter.com/Reggie__11

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820396 is a reply to message #820395 ]
Fri, 31 March 2023 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Oilertime wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?


Didn't wear the pride jersey.

Ah. Thought crime. Got it.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820400 is a reply to message #820396 ]
Fri, 31 March 2023 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Nice job jets. Now just need Van to beat Cgy (who got YET ANOTHER OT pt...)

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820413 is a reply to message #820396 ]
Sat, 01 April 2023 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Perkele is currently offline Perkele
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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 23:20

Oilertime wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?


Didn't wear the pride jersey.

Ah. Thought crime. Got it.


Nobody said crime, just trash human being...I tend to agree.

Kuzmenko too a stand and Oilertime based his opinion of him off of that. If enough people (or specific people like Van's ownership or the NHL etc...) were or are against Kuzmenkos stand there will be repercussions for him and that's not a crime either.



#teamBath(i)robe

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820414 is a reply to message #820413 ]
Sat, 01 April 2023 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Perkele wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 11:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 23:20

Oilertime wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?


Didn't wear the pride jersey.

Ah. Thought crime. Got it.


Nobody said crime, just trash human being...I tend to agree.

Kuzmenko too a stand and Oilertime based his opinion of him off of that. If enough people (or specific people like Van's ownership or the NHL etc...) were or are against Kuzmenkos stand there will be repercussions for him and that's not a crime either.




I feel like many are missing an opportunity to bash Russia even more than we already are. That Russian Orthodox Church leader they have is a piece of work.


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- Lowe, 2013

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820415 is a reply to message #820413 ]
Sat, 01 April 2023 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Perkele wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 11:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 23:20

Oilertime wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?


Didn't wear the pride jersey.

Ah. Thought crime. Got it.


Nobody said crime, just trash human being...I tend to agree.

Kuzmenko too a stand and Oilertime based his opinion of him off of that. If enough people (or specific people like Van's ownership or the NHL etc...) were or are against Kuzmenkos stand there will be repercussions for him and that's not a crime either.



I stand by the term thought crime. Your demand of repercussions for wrongthink from someone's employer should give everyone reason to pause and reflect.


Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820418 is a reply to message #820415 ]
Sat, 01 April 2023 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Perkele is currently offline Perkele
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 13:23

Perkele wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 11:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 23:20

Oilertime wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?


Didn't wear the pride jersey.

Ah. Thought crime. Got it.


Nobody said crime, just trash human being...I tend to agree.

Kuzmenko too a stand and Oilertime based his opinion of him off of that. If enough people (or specific people like Van's ownership or the NHL etc...) were or are against Kuzmenkos stand there will be repercussions for him and that's not a crime either.



I stand by the term thought crime. Your demand of repercussions for wrongthink from someone's employer should give everyone reason to pause and reflect.



So thought crime means having an opinion that people vocally disagree with and judge you by. Again, there is no demand for anything, just a statement that if you choose to make your opinions public and they anger enough or certain specific people there will be repercussions and to be upset about that is naive.



#teamBath(i)robe

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820425 is a reply to message #820414 ]
Sat, 01 April 2023 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 11:13

Perkele wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 11:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 23:20

Oilertime wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 20:23

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 March 2023 19:57

I praised Kuzmenko last time the Oilers played the 'Nucks. I take it all back. He's a trash human being.

What did he do?


Didn't wear the pride jersey.

Ah. Thought crime. Got it.


Nobody said crime, just trash human being...I tend to agree.

Kuzmenko too a stand and Oilertime based his opinion of him off of that. If enough people (or specific people like Van's ownership or the NHL etc...) were or are against Kuzmenkos stand there will be repercussions for him and that's not a crime either.




I feel like many are missing an opportunity to bash Russia even more than we already are. That Russian Orthodox Church leader they have is a piece of work.



It was definitely interesting the tack that the Canucks took on this. They suggested that he talked to his family ahead of making his decision - implicitly blaming this as a Russia thing as opposed to any strong views from Kuzmenko. Probably a wise decision, honestly. While I'm sure the team would prefer not to make any headlines or rock any boats, if they are able to give the player a little bit of cover it's probably in their best interests.

I would bet money that there are no more pride jersey nights in the NHL next year. Pride nights - sure. But no jerseys, because the league just doesn't want to deal with this again.


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820474 is a reply to message #820418 ]
Mon, 03 April 2023 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules is currently offline AndersonRules
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Perkele wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 12:11



So thought crime means having an opinion that people vocally disagree with and judge you by. Again, there is no demand for anything, just a statement that if you choose to make your opinions public and they anger enough or certain specific people there will be repercussions and to be upset about that is naive.




So holding an opinion on a particular lifestyle (for or against) can be sufficient to designate somebody a "trash human being," subject to being "judged" and encountering "repercussions" because your opinions "anger enough or certain specific people" ... And here I had thought (honestly, not sarcastically) that we had made progress in terms of being more tolerant of people with divergent viewpoints or alternative lifestyles. Apparently not.

Imagine the outcome if the opinion were, say, that gays and lesbians should be able to have open relationships, and no one should have the ability to interfere with their ability to love and live with whomever they please. Imagine that such an opinion "angered enough or certain specific people" such that they were "judged" as being "trash human beings" who should expect to encounter (unspecified) "repercussions" as a result. Do you want to revert to being such a society? And can you not see that is where your articulated position leads? If we demand uniformity on the zeitgeist (spirit of the age) that is predominant, and threaten dissenters with judgment, condemnation, and 'repercussions,' then we are not advocating for a free and tolerant society. Which is tremendously ironic given that pride nights et al are supposedly advocating for tolerance.

Note: to stave off the inevitable reply of "but what about people who think LGBTQ+ folks should be murdered or persecuted etc." - that's quite clearly not what we're talking about here. None of the NHL players who have been criticized for refusing to wear pride jerseys have suggested any such thing.

Quick analogy - here in OKC, we went to Barons games every opportunity we got. They regularly had "Family & Faith" nights, which were basically invitations to Christian churches to come and for their Christian faith (which is pretty predominant here in the 'Bible belt' [where even your cattle are probably Christian]) to be celebrated. Imagine that the OKC Barons wore warm-up jerseys with crosses stitched on the shoulders for those nights. Now imagine that a player, say a committed atheist, or a Muslim, or whatever, preferred not to wear the warm-up jersey. Should he have been ostracized? judged as a 'trash human being' (for not adhering to the majority worldview in the setting)? threatened with 'repercussions'? I think clearly not. He should have the freedom to not celebrate a worldview or lifestyle that he does not agree with. He is not threatening anybody's right to exist.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820475 is a reply to message #820474 ]
Mon, 03 April 2023 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve is currently offline Steve
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AndersonRules wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 10:36

Perkele wrote on Sat, 01 April 2023 12:11



So thought crime means having an opinion that people vocally disagree with and judge you by. Again, there is no demand for anything, just a statement that if you choose to make your opinions public and they anger enough or certain specific people there will be repercussions and to be upset about that is naive.




So holding an opinion on a particular lifestyle (for or against) can be sufficient to designate somebody a "trash human being," subject to being "judged" and encountering "repercussions" because your opinions "anger enough or certain specific people" ... And here I had thought (honestly, not sarcastically) that we had made progress in terms of being more tolerant of people with divergent viewpoints or alternative lifestyles. Apparently not.

Imagine the outcome if the opinion were, say, that gays and lesbians should be able to have open relationships, and no one should have the ability to interfere with their ability to love and live with whomever they please. Imagine that such an opinion "angered enough or certain specific people" such that they were "judged" as being "trash human beings" who should expect to encounter (unspecified) "repercussions" as a result. Do you want to revert to being such a society? And can you not see that is where your articulated position leads? If we demand uniformity on the zeitgeist (spirit of the age) that is predominant, and threaten dissenters with judgment, condemnation, and 'repercussions,' then we are not advocating for a free and tolerant society. Which is tremendously ironic given that pride nights et al are supposedly advocating for tolerance.

Note: to stave off the inevitable reply of "but what about people who think LGBTQ+ folks should be murdered or persecuted etc." - that's quite clearly not what we're talking about here. None of the NHL players who have been criticized for refusing to wear pride jerseys have suggested any such thing.

Quick analogy - here in OKC, we went to Barons games every opportunity we got. They regularly had "Family & Faith" nights, which were basically invitations to Christian churches to come and for their Christian faith (which is pretty predominant here in the 'Bible belt' [where even your cattle are probably Christian]) to be celebrated. Imagine that the OKC Barons wore warm-up jerseys with crosses stitched on the shoulders for those nights. Now imagine that a player, say a committed atheist, or a Muslim, or whatever, preferred not to wear the warm-up jersey. Should he have been ostracized? judged as a 'trash human being' (for not adhering to the majority worldview in the setting)? threatened with 'repercussions'? I think clearly not. He should have the freedom to not celebrate a worldview or lifestyle that he does not agree with. He is not threatening anybody's right to exist.



Calling someone a trash human being doesn't really help advance the discussion, but I think it is fair to question and challenge someone for choosing not to wear pride gear. My opinion is that any religious beliefs these players have is misplaced and my hope is that society as a whole can learn to accept everyone for who they are. We are a still a very long way off achieving this goal and the LGBTQ+ community needs support to achieve acceptance. Not wearing the gear works against the goal.

The religion example is not analogous, and referring to LGBTQ+ as a 'lifestyle' isn't accurate either. It implies a choice when there is no choice. We need to accept all aspects of human biology. It's science, not religion.


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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820476 is a reply to message #820474 ]
Mon, 03 April 2023 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro is currently offline JPro
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AndersonRules wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 11:36

He should have the freedom to not celebrate a worldview or lifestyle that he does not agree with. He is not threatening anybody's right to exist.


Who you love is not a "worldview or lifestyle". It's not something that a person chooses unlike a religion that one willingly joins (or more commonly is indoctrinated into, but that's a different discussion). There's no converting away from your sexuality and there's not leaving it. They can mask it, like most have had to do their entire lives, but that's about it. Your analogy is bad.

Pride night exists because for decades hockey culture (all levels, not necessarily NHL) has been extremely toxic towards gay boys and men. Everyone on this board that played minor hockey knows what the scene was like in the 80's, 90's and 00's. And I'm sure participated in it in one way or the other in their youths. I know I'm guilty of it. Whether it be calling things "gay" or dropping the word "f_g" in a derogatory manner. There's no way I'd have gone near this sport if I was gay when I was a teen.

There are zero openly gay NHL players. Gee, I wonder why?

Pride night isn't an endorsement or celebration of homosexuality. It's clear message that if you are gay, there is room for you in this game. You will not discriminated against or a victim of violence from other members of the team/organization. That's it.

Refusing to wear the jersey on the grounds of being Christian is at best a phony excuse given the other biblical rules these players opening flaunt such as working on the sabbath, pre-marital sex, wearing mixed fabrics, wearing tattoos etc. I'm sure the list goes on. By refusing the jersey, they are simply admitting that they dislike gay people. And that's fine - it's not illegal to dislike people. But if they're judging others, it's fair for fans to judge them in return since their bias is rooted in hate.

Jesus's core message, to me, as been to love thy neighbor. I don't see how refusing to support gays in hockey supports that message. Blaming the religion simply doesn't hold enough water. These people need to own up to their negative biases.

With all that said, it's funny how people are complaining about these "political" events now that it's something they may disagree with. Supporting pride night is no more "virtue signaling" than pretending to care about the military during their many pre-game celebrations. Or the weird nationalistic ritual of singing country's songs before the puck is dropped. If there's a movement to get rid of pride night, then get rid of all the "political" stuff and let's just focus on the game at hand.

[Updated on: Mon, 03 April 2023 15:41]

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820477 is a reply to message #820476 ]
Mon, 03 April 2023 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Some interesting comments on the pride jersey debate - but I wonder if it's not ultimately a better conversation for the OT Forum in the end? We're getting pretty far from ice level here I think.

On a more hockey-related note - Marner sat out yesterday with "bumps & bruises". I wonder if this isn't the start of the game management part of the season and we don't see a little more of this down the stretch. If so, it'll be interesting how that could impact the couple remaining playoff races.

I'm curious if we'll see it more in the East where there's already a little more separation than in the West where conceivably any of 5 or 6 teams could still finish atop the conference, and there's no one guaranteed a specific seed in either division.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820478 is a reply to message #820475 ]
Mon, 03 April 2023 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Steve wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 15:36


The religion example is not analogous, and referring to LGBTQ+ as a 'lifestyle' isn't accurate either. It implies a choice when there is no choice. We need to accept all aspects of human biology. It's science, not religion.


I would imagine the good bible belt people of OKC consider God not to be a choice either. They might also consider the demand that everyone strictly adheres to the practice of wearing pride jerseys to be something of a religion rite of the lifestyle now. Maybe. I haven't asked them what they think.

I do wonder what the NHL thought they were going to get out of this. Does us arguing over the value of woke points do much to increase league revenue?

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820479 is a reply to message #812389 ]
Mon, 03 April 2023 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Minny chokes their 3-2 lead against Vegas with 30 seconds to go in the 3rd. Sigh.

Some of those pitiful zero effort against crap team losses a couple months ago by the Oilers are really hurting rights now.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820483 is a reply to message #820479 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 23:37

Minny chokes their 3-2 lead against Vegas with 30 seconds to go in the 3rd. Sigh.

Some of those pitiful zero effort against crap team losses a couple months ago by the Oilers are really hurting rights now.


Yeah, that one sucked. I we were to win out, we would at worst be 2nd in the conference. For a shot at 1st in the division and conference, Vegas would need to lose at least 2 of their last 5 (NSH, LAK, DAL, SEA, SEA). No easy games for them, so certainly possible. And we easily get the tie breaker over them - so we just need to tie.

As for us - 3 very winnable games against ANA and SJS (X2). 2 tougher games against LAK and COL.

I will say - scoreboard watching to see how we can win the conference is certainly a lot more fun than hoping for a good draft pick every year.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820489 is a reply to message #820483 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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If the Flames make the playoffs, the league should be ashamed of themselves. The Flames real record when you just count wins & losses. 36 - 41. The Flames have won 7 less games than the Jets but are only 2 pts back due to the loser point.

I know from the leagues perspective, this is exactly why they have the loser point. It artificially keeps more losing teams in the race. The best the Flames can have record wise if they win out when you count wins/losses is .500.

If a team makes the playoffs, a team should win more games than they lose.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820490 is a reply to message #820489 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:50

If the Flames make the playoffs, the league should be ashamed of themselves. The Flames real record when you just count wins & losses. 36 - 41. The Flames have won 7 less games than the Jets but are only 2 pts back due to the loser point.

I know from the leagues perspective, this is exactly why they have the loser point. It artificially keeps more losing teams in the race. The best the Flames can have record wise if they win out when you count wins/losses is .500.

If a team makes the playoffs, a team should win more games than they lose.

If the Flames make the playoffs the Jets should be ashamed of themselves, not the league. The league's only role is making sure the rules are known and followed. Asking the league to try to control outcomes is a recipe for foolishness. Imagine if the league, through their game enforcement employees, attempted to control who makes the playoffs because they didn't like the optics of a real record 36-41 team making the playoffs. Would that be a better or worse look than what's currently happening?

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820493 is a reply to message #820490 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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It also makes for better underdog stories. Like our 2006 Oilers run. Yes we were 41-28-13, but both Vancouver and LA had 42 wins to our 41.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820494 is a reply to message #820490 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:50

If the Flames make the playoffs, the league should be ashamed of themselves. The Flames real record when you just count wins & losses. 36 - 41. The Flames have won 7 less games than the Jets but are only 2 pts back due to the loser point.

I know from the leagues perspective, this is exactly why they have the loser point. It artificially keeps more losing teams in the race. The best the Flames can have record wise if they win out when you count wins/losses is .500.

If a team makes the playoffs, a team should win more games than they lose.

If the Flames make the playoffs the Jets should be ashamed of themselves, not the league. The league's only role is making sure the rules are known and followed. Asking the league to try to control outcomes is a recipe for foolishness. Imagine if the league, through their game enforcement employees, attempted to control who makes the playoffs because they didn't like the optics of a real record 36-41 team making the playoffs. Would that be a better or worse look than what's currently happening?

I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820496 is a reply to message #820493 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

It also makes for better underdog stories. Like our 2006 Oilers run. Yes we were 41-28-13, but both Vancouver and LA had 42 wins to our 41.


Then the Oilers shouldn't have made the playoffs that year. I can't say the Flames shouldn't this year but be Ok with the Oilers. The NHL is a professional league where the goal is to win games, that's its. This applies in the playoffs where it's winner takes all. You either win or you lose, you don't get half credit for losing a playoff game in OT. It should apply to the regular season.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820497 is a reply to message #820494 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16


I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

You're old enough (I think) to remember dead puck era hockey when we had to watch teams play for the tie because every point was so important. They had to do something to make people interested in the end of games. It's actually incorrect to describe it as a loser point, it's not and the league did a wild disservice to itself by letting that perception linger. The extra point is for the team that plays to win because so many games were ending in ties. I would agree the league should change a regulation win to 3 points to make the end of regulation more interesting and I still don't understand why they didn't do that.


Most importantly we as fans definitely do not want the league attempting to control outcomes because of arbitrary reasons. Set the rules, let it play out. The Flames making the playoffs despite you not liking their record should not be a driver a change.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820498 is a reply to message #820494 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:50

If the Flames make the playoffs, the league should be ashamed of themselves. The Flames real record when you just count wins & losses. 36 - 41. The Flames have won 7 less games than the Jets but are only 2 pts back due to the loser point.

I know from the leagues perspective, this is exactly why they have the loser point. It artificially keeps more losing teams in the race. The best the Flames can have record wise if they win out when you count wins/losses is .500.

If a team makes the playoffs, a team should win more games than they lose.

If the Flames make the playoffs the Jets should be ashamed of themselves, not the league. The league's only role is making sure the rules are known and followed. Asking the league to try to control outcomes is a recipe for foolishness. Imagine if the league, through their game enforcement employees, attempted to control who makes the playoffs because they didn't like the optics of a real record 36-41 team making the playoffs. Would that be a better or worse look than what's currently happening?

I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.


Well, you have to be tied to get to overtime, so you're still doing something.

If we want to be technical, the NHL has added a couple of additional points from what we once had. There's one extra point for losing in OT, and there's another extra point for winning in the shootout. Before, you lose in OT, it's just a loss, and if it was still tied at the end of OT, then it's a tie.

So only SOME of the extra points are truly loser points. Some of them are winner points too!

I would prefer a three point system to the current model, but that's not what we have and all teams are playing in the same system. They all know what the rules are and they can adapt accordingly.

Under McLellan, I believed that the Oilers prioritized extra points - going to a more passive, defensive structure in the last 10 minutes of tied games rather than trying to win it outright. I thought this was a dangerous and foolish way of approaching things, but it was a decision our team made based on the system that is in place. Maybe the Flames did something similar and getting the game to OT and securing at least one point was the priority. Maybe it's just coincidence. Either way, the Jets have the same options and abilities as the Flames. Paraphrasing the immortal Ivan Drago, if they lose, they lose.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820499 is a reply to message #820496 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:19

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

It also makes for better underdog stories. Like our 2006 Oilers run. Yes we were 41-28-13, but both Vancouver and LA had 42 wins to our 41.


Then the Oilers shouldn't have made the playoffs that year. I can't say the Flames shouldn't this year but be Ok with the Oilers. The NHL is a professional league where the goal is to win games, that's its. This applies in the playoffs where it's winner takes all. You either win or you lose, you don't get half credit for losing a playoff game in OT. It should apply to the regular season.


This happened pre-2006 too of course. You could make the playoffs with less wins, so long as you also had enough more ties. There has never been a time when the number of wins was the determining factor on playoff seeding.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820500 is a reply to message #820497 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
benv is currently offline benv
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16


I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

You're old enough (I think) to remember dead puck era hockey when we had to watch teams play for the tie because every point was so important. They had to do something to make people interested in the end of games. It's actually incorrect to describe it as a loser point, it's not and the league did a wild disservice to itself by letting that perception linger. The extra point is for the team that plays to win because so many games were ending in ties. I would agree the league should change a regulation win to 3 points to make the end of regulation more interesting and I still don't understand why they didn't do that.


Most importantly we as fans definitely do not want the league attempting to control outcomes because of arbitrary reasons. Set the rules, let it play out. The Flames making the playoffs despite you not liking their record should not be a driver a change.


You can also spin this the other way: the Flames' 15 OT/shooutout losses show that they are bad at the "silly skills competitions" the NHL uses to decide tie games and that's what costing them points. If the NHL used playoff type OT to decide tie games, the Flames' record would perhaps be better.

Teams that are good at OT/shootout have the appearance of winning more games and not taking advantage of "loser points" because their extra-time wins show up in the standings as "wins". I would say a team with a ton of OT/shootout wins is taking advantage of the system more than a team with a bunch of OT/shootout losses.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820501 is a reply to message #820477 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 15:49

Some interesting comments on the pride jersey debate - but I wonder if it's not ultimately a better conversation for the OT Forum in the end? We're getting pretty far from ice level here I think.


Thank you. I avoid the OT Forum, because I get enough of this content in everyday life. Hockey talk is my escape and right now I am only concerned about the Oil, a deep playoff run, the out of town scoreboard and where the heck did a bunch of my posts go?

I just reached 3 Cups for the second time in my Oilfans history, only to be knocked back once again.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820502 is a reply to message #820500 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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benv wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 12:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16


I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

You're old enough (I think) to remember dead puck era hockey when we had to watch teams play for the tie because every point was so important. They had to do something to make people interested in the end of games. It's actually incorrect to describe it as a loser point, it's not and the league did a wild disservice to itself by letting that perception linger. The extra point is for the team that plays to win because so many games were ending in ties. I would agree the league should change a regulation win to 3 points to make the end of regulation more interesting and I still don't understand why they didn't do that.


Most importantly we as fans definitely do not want the league attempting to control outcomes because of arbitrary reasons. Set the rules, let it play out. The Flames making the playoffs despite you not liking their record should not be a driver a change.


You can also spin this the other way: the Flames' 15 OT/shooutout losses show that they are bad at the "silly skills competitions" the NHL uses to decide tie games and that's what costing them points. If the NHL used playoff type OT to decide tie games, the Flames' record would perhaps be better.

Teams that are good at OT/shootout have the appearance of winning more games and not taking advantage of "loser points" because their extra-time wins show up in the standings as "wins". I would say a team with a ton of OT/shootout wins is taking advantage of the system more than a team with a bunch of OT/shootout losses.


This is an excellent point and one reason why I'm a little worried about the Flames. They're a very good, annoying, and tough defensive team that kind of sucks at the novelty portion of a hockey game. Assuming their goalie doesn't turn into a ghost in the playoffs again (lol, that series was fun) they're going to create a hard series. Considering the western conference top 7 is so tight, adding a tough 8th place teams is a negative.

So go Jets. I guess.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820503 is a reply to message #820501 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 12:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 15:49

Some interesting comments on the pride jersey debate - but I wonder if it's not ultimately a better conversation for the OT Forum in the end? We're getting pretty far from ice level here I think.


Thank you. I avoid the OT Forum, because I get enough of this content in everyday life. Hockey talk is my escape and right now I am only concerned about the Oil, a deep playoff run, the out of town scoreboard and where the heck did a bunch of my posts go?

I just reached 3 Cups for the second time in my Oilfans history, only to be knocked back once again.

Oh I was wondering if we'd get another purge after the site said it was full a while back.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820506 is a reply to message #820501 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94 is currently offline oilfan94
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 14:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 15:49

Some interesting comments on the pride jersey debate - but I wonder if it's not ultimately a better conversation for the OT Forum in the end? We're getting pretty far from ice level here I think.


Thank you. I avoid the OT Forum, because I get enough of this content in everyday life. Hockey talk is my escape and right now I am only concerned about the Oil, a deep playoff run, the out of town scoreboard and where the heck did a bunch of my posts go?

I just reached 3 Cups for the second time in my Oilfans history, only to be knocked back once again.


I'm with you. I have a lot of opinions here (particularly being an American seeing a lot of Canadians talking about US politics) but to be honest I come on here to see discussions on the Oilers and hockey. This is a forum for people with a very specific interest, and that's all I am really interested in hearing about from everyone here (even the more heated discussions on the Oilers and hockey, at least it is still focused). I also really enjoy the game threads for games I am not watching, helps fill in some more of the gaps of what happened besides just the highlights.

To get back to hockey, yeah the OOT scores haven't done us many favors recently, and tonight is the last opportunity for the team to put their destiny back into their own hands (at least for getting home ice advantage in the playoffs). Should be a great back tonight and hopefully the On Thursday when then Golden Knights and Kings play it doesn't go to OT.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820507 is a reply to message #820503 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 13:30

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 12:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 15:49

Some interesting comments on the pride jersey debate - but I wonder if it's not ultimately a better conversation for the OT Forum in the end? We're getting pretty far from ice level here I think.


Thank you. I avoid the OT Forum, because I get enough of this content in everyday life. Hockey talk is my escape and right now I am only concerned about the Oil, a deep playoff run, the out of town scoreboard and where the heck did a bunch of my posts go?

I just reached 3 Cups for the second time in my Oilfans history, only to be knocked back once again.

Oh I was wondering if we'd get another purge after the site said it was full a while back.


I argued just to have you and Mike purged to save everyone else's post counts, but apparently that didn't happen. Sigh. Well, I guess we're stuck with you then!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820508 is a reply to message #820507 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 14:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 13:30

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 12:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 15:49

Some interesting comments on the pride jersey debate - but I wonder if it's not ultimately a better conversation for the OT Forum in the end? We're getting pretty far from ice level here I think.


Thank you. I avoid the OT Forum, because I get enough of this content in everyday life. Hockey talk is my escape and right now I am only concerned about the Oil, a deep playoff run, the out of town scoreboard and where the heck did a bunch of my posts go?

I just reached 3 Cups for the second time in my Oilfans history, only to be knocked back once again.

Oh I was wondering if we'd get another purge after the site said it was full a while back.


I argued just to have you and Mike purged to save everyone else's post counts, but apparently that didn't happen. Sigh. Well, I guess we're stuck with you then!

I suppose a tribute could be offered.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820531 is a reply to message #812389 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820540 is a reply to message #820531 ]
Tue, 04 April 2023 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 21:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.


My boy Marky! Pulled against the Ducks. Then gets owned by Chicago.

Sooooo good

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820573 is a reply to message #820508 ]
Wed, 05 April 2023 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 18:05

Adam wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 14:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 13:30

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 12:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2023 15:49

Some interesting comments on the pride jersey debate - but I wonder if it's not ultimately a better conversation for the OT Forum in the end? We're getting pretty far from ice level here I think.


Thank you. I avoid the OT Forum, because I get enough of this content in everyday life. Hockey talk is my escape and right now I am only concerned about the Oil, a deep playoff run, the out of town scoreboard and where the heck did a bunch of my posts go?

I just reached 3 Cups for the second time in my Oilfans history, only to be knocked back once again.

Oh I was wondering if we'd get another purge after the site said it was full a while back.


I argued just to have you and Mike purged to save everyone else's post counts, but apparently that didn't happen. Sigh. Well, I guess we're stuck with you then!

I suppose a tribute could be offered.


Thinking just removing 1 or 2 of Adam's encyclopedic posts should have freed up more than enough space.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820576 is a reply to message #820531 ]
Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.


CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820579 is a reply to message #820576 ]
Wed, 05 April 2023 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.


CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.





Not as many elite linemates, he is back to his usual production, just without getting very emotionally involved anymore. He suddenly got totally disciplined to not ruin his contract year with suspensions. Might be hard to light that fire again.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820584 is a reply to message #820576 ]
Wed, 05 April 2023 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.


CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.




I think the issue with Kadri and a few of the other guys on the team is Sutter. It would be hard to give a crap when you have a coach who probably rips you in the room, then goes out to the media and carves you up in the media. They look like a team that is absolutely miserable and just wants the season to be done so they don't have to listen to Sutter trash them anymore.

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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820587 is a reply to message #820584 ]
Wed, 05 April 2023 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 09:03

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.


CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.



I think the issue with Kadri and a few of the other guys on the team is Sutter. It would be hard to give a crap when you have a coach who probably rips you in the room, then goes out to the media and carves you up in the media. They look like a team that is absolutely miserable and just wants the season to be done so they don't have to listen to Sutter trash them anymore.


Sutter is almost certainly a bit part of the issue. He's a blunt instrument, and I think he wants to bend players to play his system rather than adapting the system for the tools that he has at his disposal. Huberdeau's production has been halved in a single year. Weegar is a shadow of what he was in Florida. Kadri's had his challenges. Lindholm's production is way off. Mangiapane's about 40% down.

If the Flames miss the playoffs, I think there are changes coming. I figure either Sutter will be gone, or he'll be promoted in to the GM chair again. It'll be interesting either way.

I did think that the Eric Francis rant on Kadri was a little over the top. Not often you see intermission analysis included in the highlight package - which goes to show just how extreme it was.



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 Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820589 is a reply to message #820587 ]
Wed, 05 April 2023 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I don't think how Sutter coaches translates to todays game or player. I think last year was a fluke season where everything went right for them including injuries and their whole team had surprise career years including a few guys looking for new big money contracts. He likes to break guys down and force them to play a style that probably some players aren't willing or maybe even capable of doing on a consistent basis. Then when those players don't play how he wants, he shreds them.

He plays a throw it on the net and hope for something good to happen style which to me is good to make your advanced numbers look good but doesn't produce great results because you aren't creating good scoring chances and you are giving up the puck. Then he relies on his goalie to have to be lights out all the time because their margin for error is low. Markstrom was in the running for the vesina last year, had 9 shut outs, they did well. This year he hasn't been as good and surprise surprise the team doesn't win much.

It will be interesting to see what happens with them. Their team is set as they have a full roster with 219K of cap space listed. So they can't bring guys or make changes. So they will have to trade guys if they want to make the roster different plus Sutter has an extension starting next year so firing the coach right when his new deal starts is tough.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 April 2023 10:01]

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