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 Oilers » Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration
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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810879 is a reply to message #810872 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810880 is a reply to message #810879 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


Barrie should be very tradable now.

Trading guys before their value will very predictably plummet because of lack of opportunity...that's the trick.

And clearly our team balance is off as we struggle to sign our forwards because of lack of cap space. I think Yams and McLeod showed they have a lot of potential for this team. And would be wonderful to be able to get a ringer like Kessel on a bargain deal if we were able to shed Barrie and Foegele.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810882 is a reply to message #810880 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I would not be opposed to including Yamamoto as a sweetener to get something of substance back. I believe PJ has room to grow still, where we've seen Yamamoto's peak.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810883 is a reply to message #810882 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:42

I would not be opposed to including Yamamoto as a sweetener to get something of substance back. I believe PJ has room to grow still, where we've seen Yamamoto's peak.


I'm still pretty positive about Yams. He's had some struggles for sure, but I appreciate players that work their butt off and are very smart. I think he's going to keep figuring out his game and start getting more consistent. Should end up a solid all situation player, maybe 50-60 points if he gets top 6 ice time.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810884 is a reply to message #810879 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 09:54]

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810885 is a reply to message #810884 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.



Nurse was fine on the PP though. We actually scored at a higher rate with Nurse on the PP than Barrie the last couple years. Barrie just kept getting that PP time by default because that is supposed to be his thing. Our PP performance the last few years as been basically 100% determined by how on their game McDavid and Drai are.

Our PP can be minimally demanding on a D. Klef did great too when he couldn't even shoot with his shoulder messed up. All the D has to do is not give the puck away and pass side to side and the PP still scored at a high rate and Nurse has actually shown he can do that. IMO Barrie actually started giving pucks away on the PP more and more as the season went on. Bouch actually could add more than Barrie or Nurse with his shot, but we haven't seen that totally incorporated yet.

As for the Bouch. I want him to develop ASAP. We need to win now. I think keeping Barrie just to block out Bouch from developing confidence in his offensive game on the PP would be a bad idea. That could actually be to the determent of the team performance as well. Bouch could well be far more effective on the PP and add a new element to it that would be useful in playoffs. I don't think players are dumb either. Bouch will get PP time at some point, and if it starts to be clear he is the better option and we just keep giving that time to Barrie, it will be apparent to Bouch and his agent what we're doing. That'll come home to roost at negotiation time. If you think you're getting ripped off on opportunity, you're going to keep insisting on short term deals. Nurse gave a clinic on how to keep biding time until the stars finally aligned.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 10:15]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810886 is a reply to message #810884 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


That would require planning ahead. Don't worry about it. Everything will work out.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810888 is a reply to message #810880 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:19

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


Barrie should be very tradable now.

Trading guys before their value will very predictably plummet because of lack of opportunity...that's the trick.

And clearly our team balance is off as we struggle to sign our forwards because of lack of cap space. I think Yams and McLeod showed they have a lot of potential for this team. And would be wonderful to be able to get a ringer like Kessel on a bargain deal if we were able to shed Barrie and Foegele.


I think even Foegele should have some marketability, especially if we aren't looking for much of a return for him. Flush him for a 6th or 7th round pick, and then sign a league minimum guy with solid possession numbers off the bargain bin late in the summer.

Tyson Barrie is a little harder to replace - as the defence bucket of UFAs is a little lighter. That said, he isn't a great even strength contributor because he's not a strong enough defender to be out on the ice without a lot of help against top competition. He is really a third pairing, weak competition guy, and so if he's not your PP quarterback, then he's not worth his salary.

I expect that the market is more focused on John Klingberg right now as the "free" option for a quarterback, since he's UFA. At the point where he picks his spot and signs, then there should be some teams left as bridesmaids, and maybe one of them antes up a bit for Barrie.

The one other thing that the Oilers should be working very diligently on this summer is getting Bouchard an extension. He scored two more points (43) than Barrie this season, despite a tiny fraction of the powerplay time. If he takes even a bit more of that load this year, and continues to take strides forward, he's a 50-60 point defenceman. If he were to be the main guy on the PP? Maybe he's a 70 point player. The team needs to lock down some level of price certainty ahead of that. Ideally, I'd want to sign him before I traded Barrie, because the only thing holding back his value is how little he plays on the PP right now and once Barrie is gone, then he is getting a big, big second deal. Get him to the longest, cheapest deal you can, and then pull the trigger on a Barrie deal. Otherwise (and here I'll loop this back to what the thread is actually about) then there's virtually no chance to re-sign Puljujarvi next year because everything extra is going to re-sign Bouchard if they don't get that done right now.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810889 is a reply to message #810884 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52


But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.




Agree with Kr - Nurse has done fine in spot duty on the PP. He's managed to produce points well there.

Broberg has some offensive instincts too. I think he could be used there too to spell off Bouchard.


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810890 is a reply to message #810888 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 10:21

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:19

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


Barrie should be very tradable now.

Trading guys before their value will very predictably plummet because of lack of opportunity...that's the trick.

And clearly our team balance is off as we struggle to sign our forwards because of lack of cap space. I think Yams and McLeod showed they have a lot of potential for this team. And would be wonderful to be able to get a ringer like Kessel on a bargain deal if we were able to shed Barrie and Foegele.


I think even Foegele should have some marketability, especially if we aren't looking for much of a return for him. Flush him for a 6th or 7th round pick, and then sign a league minimum guy with solid possession numbers off the bargain bin late in the summer.

Tyson Barrie is a little harder to replace - as the defence bucket of UFAs is a little lighter. That said, he isn't a great even strength contributor because he's not a strong enough defender to be out on the ice without a lot of help against top competition. He is really a third pairing, weak competition guy, and so if he's not your PP quarterback, then he's not worth his salary.

I expect that the market is more focused on John Klingberg right now as the "free" option for a quarterback, since he's UFA. At the point where he picks his spot and signs, then there should be some teams left as bridesmaids, and maybe one of them antes up a bit for Barrie.

The one other thing that the Oilers should be working very diligently on this summer is getting Bouchard an extension. He scored two more points (43) than Barrie this season, despite a tiny fraction of the powerplay time. If he takes even a bit more of that load this year, and continues to take strides forward, he's a 50-60 point defenceman. If he were to be the main guy on the PP? Maybe he's a 70 point player. The team needs to lock down some level of price certainty ahead of that. Ideally, I'd want to sign him before I traded Barrie, because the only thing holding back his value is how little he plays on the PP right now and once Barrie is gone, then he is getting a big, big second deal. Get him to the longest, cheapest deal you can, and then pull the trigger on a Barrie deal. Otherwise (and here I'll loop this back to what the thread is actually about) then there's virtually no chance to re-sign Puljujarvi next year because everything extra is going to re-sign Bouchard if they don't get that done right now.


Bouch's ES production alone will justify a huge raise, he doesn't even need the PP time. The PP production can just be assumed if a guy is getting ~40 ES points, like how Nurse scored his big contract. I would not keep Barrie around just to try to block out Bouch from the PP, it will be kinda meaningless in the end and at worst it could be destructive to negotiations if it's obvious we were trying to suppress Bouch's stats in such a lame way. Sacrificing a better PP and winning just to try to stop Bouch from getting more points? Clownish.

Agree 100%, if we can sign Bouch now, do it. If I was in Bouch's camp though, I would be holding off because it's so up in the air of how his next season will go with so much upside potential for Bouch's camp. GIving the Oilers org the benefit of the doubt here that they are trying, but takes 2 to tango.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 10:46]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810893 is a reply to message #810890 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:41


Bouch's ES production alone will justify a huge raise, he doesn't even need the PP time. The PP production can just be assumed if a guy is getting ~40 ES points, like how Nurse scored his big contract. I would not keep Barrie around just to try to block out Bouch from the PP, it will be kinda meaningless in the end and at worst it could be destructive to negotiations if it's obvious we were trying to suppress Bouch's stats in such a lame way. Sacrificing a better PP and winning just to try to stop Bouch from getting more points? Clownish.

Agree 100%, if we can sign Bouch now, do it. If I was in Bouch's camp though, I would be holding off because it's so up in the air of how his next season will go with so much upside potential for Bouch's camp. GIving the Oilers org the benefit of the doubt here that they are trying, but takes 2 to tango.


Ya, thinking about this a bit more, it's probably too late to get Bouchard on deal similar to Klefbom's. 12 goals/43 points (10/35 at even strength), is a great season for a defenceman. If I was Bouchard, I wouldn't be signing anything long-term that didn't start with a 6 and, honestly, the Oilers should probably still do that if it's an option.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 10:52]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810894 is a reply to message #810884 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 11:18]

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810896 is a reply to message #810894 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 10:15


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Depends I guess what you mean by 'good minutes'.

This is just one aspect, but a pretty important one I think. Barrie's ability to defend the blueline was in the bottom quarter of all defencemen in the playoffs.

And before you dismiss this as, 'analytics', this is literally just counting events, same as they do for hits or shots, and calculating a percent. It's not meant to be definitive by any means, but it's a real description of what actually happened on the ice.

I think his 5x5 minutes are easily replaceable by an average 3rd pairing defenceman, and that savings in cap can be used to ensure that Derek Ryan isn't the Oilers 2nd line RW.



On a positive note, Bretty Kulak actually shows really well here. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYrrD7cVEAADNng?format=jpg&name=small

https://twitter.com/DimFilipovic/status/1552312254736920576? s=20&t=UQUSKfXcJ8gYzSESPVbEAg

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810897 is a reply to message #810894 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810899 is a reply to message #810897 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810900 is a reply to message #810899 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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3rd pairing D last year had anywhere between 10-15 minutes depending on the game.
3rd line forwards had 11-16 minutes.

I'd say each is about as important as the other, so you can't overpay for any of them, otherwise you create a hole elsewhere.

If we were talking about 4th line forwards, you're correct but our 4th line is already dirt cheap.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810901 is a reply to message #810900 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:21

3rd pairing D last year had anywhere between 10-15 minutes depending on the game.
3rd line forwards had 11-16 minutes.

I'd say each is about as important as the other, so you can't overpay for any of them, otherwise you create a hole elsewhere.

If we were talking about 4th line forwards, you're correct but our 4th line is already dirt cheap.

Your #5 dman is probably going to play more towards the 14+ mins.

McLeod because he is a center and is on the PK will get more minutes than who's over on the wing between Yamo or JP. Yamo gets PK time, JP does not. I think the Oilers PK was pretty decent after the coaching change, so I don't see the guys being used on it changing much with the same coaches coming back.

Ideally, they get rid of Foegele to clear up some cap space. If they can get rid of Barrie and replace him with a cheaper 3rd pairing guy. Even if he's got a different skillset, which in reality, might be better, as long as the replacement isn't a pylon, live body type but a guy that can play, all the better.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810902 is a reply to message #810899 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.


A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810904 is a reply to message #810902 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.


A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810906 is a reply to message #810904 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.


A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.


Holloway is probably a long shot right now.

Right now I guess our lineup looks something like this:

Kane - McDavid - Hyman
Nuge - Drai - Pulju
Foegele - McLeod - ???

Very unlikely McLeod isn't signed, so just putting him in there.

Maybe We would rather go Nuge down the middle, so:

Kane - McDavid - Pulju
Hyman - Drai - ???
Nuge - McLeod - Foegele

I still think we are a man short. I don't like anything else in our lineup in that top 9 aside from Yams who needs a deal. Holloway barely got his feet wet in the AHL and didn't crack PPG, I think he's going to get another year down there.

Would also be nice to have some cap space into the season to be able to add a rental at the deadline. We can barely fill our top 9 forwards today using all LTIR space though in the current cap state. We're also assuming we believe Skinner is a full season backup solution. I haven't paid much attention to the orgs thinking on goaltending.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 15:04]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810907 is a reply to message #810906 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.


A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.


Holloway is probably a long shot right now.

Right now I guess our lineup looks something like this:

Kane - McDavid - Hyman
Nuge - Drai - Pulju
Foegele - McLeod - ???

Very unlikely McLeod isn't signed, so just putting him in there.

Maybe We would rather go Nuge down the middle, so:

Kane - McDavid - Pulju
Hyman - Drai - ???
Nuge - McLeod - Foegele

I still think we are a man short. I don't like anything else in our lineup in that top 9 aside from Yams who needs a deal. Holloway barely got his feet wet in the AHL and didn't crack PPG, I think he's going to get another year down there.

Would also be nice to have some cap space into the season to be able to add a rental at the deadline. We can barely fill our top 9 forwards today using all LTIR space though in the current cap state. We're also assuming we believe Skinner is a full season backup solution. I haven't paid much attention to the orgs thinking on goaltending.

We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810908 is a reply to message #810907 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.


My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.


I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.


Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.


A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.


Holloway is probably a long shot right now.

Right now I guess our lineup looks something like this:

Kane - McDavid - Hyman
Nuge - Drai - Pulju
Foegele - McLeod - ???

Very unlikely McLeod isn't signed, so just putting him in there.

Maybe We would rather go Nuge down the middle, so:

Kane - McDavid - Pulju
Hyman - Drai - ???
Nuge - McLeod - Foegele

I still think we are a man short. I don't like anything else in our lineup in that top 9 aside from Yams who needs a deal. Holloway barely got his feet wet in the AHL and didn't crack PPG, I think he's going to get another year down there.

Would also be nice to have some cap space into the season to be able to add a rental at the deadline. We can barely fill our top 9 forwards today using all LTIR space though in the current cap state. We're also assuming we believe Skinner is a full season backup solution. I haven't paid much attention to the orgs thinking on goaltending.

We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.


Played him for 3:27 because of injuries in a nothing to lose game. I think that was just one of those have some fun, get a tiny taste things. Something to think about to motivate him for another AHL season with maybe the odd callup.

Not trying to bash the kid. He's just had his development derailed by some injuries. I don't think he's had enough time to be ready for the NHL. Not his fault, but still has to put in the time.

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- Lowe, 2013

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810909 is a reply to message #810907 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10


We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.


Counter-point: In 2006, the Oilers dressed Tobey Peterson for his first two NHL playoff games, and first NHL action in 4 years. They also played Brad Winchester with just 19 games experience in 10 post-season games that year. Neither turned out to be a big part of the future.

The Oilers were down 3-0 in the series and needed some level of spark. I was all for trying him in the lineup, but he looked a little tentative early and the coach didn't seem to trust him, playing him a total of just 3:27 over the entire game. It wasn't the debut that will make him an automatic roster player next year.

I think there's tons of potential in the player and I think there's a good chance he plays a lot of hockey in Edmonton next year, but I don't think he's likely to be in the opening lineup, and ideally when he is brought up, we can put him in Foegele's spot on the fourth line, rather than seeing him as a replacement for Yamamoto or Puljujarvi higher up the roster.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810910 is a reply to message #810909 ]
Wed, 27 July 2022 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10


We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.


Counter-point: In 2006, the Oilers dressed Tobey Peterson for his first two NHL playoff games, and first NHL action in 4 years. They also played Brad Winchester with just 19 games experience in 10 post-season games that year. Neither turned out to be a big part of the future.

The Oilers were down 3-0 in the series and needed some level of spark. I was all for trying him in the lineup, but he looked a little tentative early and the coach didn't seem to trust him, playing him a total of just 3:27 over the entire game. It wasn't the debut that will make him an automatic roster player next year.

I think there's tons of potential in the player and I think there's a good chance he plays a lot of hockey in Edmonton next year, but I don't think he's likely to be in the opening lineup, and ideally when he is brought up, we can put him in Foegele's spot on the fourth line, rather than seeing him as a replacement for Yamamoto or Puljujarvi higher up the roster.

I get you get off disagree with me all the time but you are seriously using Toby Pederson and Brad Winchester as a comparison?! Worse, dragging players from 16 yrs ago. Oh come on Adam, be better!

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810919 is a reply to message #810910 ]
Thu, 28 July 2022 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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So RDOF believes that after seeing 3:27 of ice time, it's now Holloway's time to shine. It couldn't possibly be that he was out of his depth and needs more experience. Everyone knows that's how NHL coaches think.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810927 is a reply to message #810910 ]
Thu, 28 July 2022 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 16:21

Adam wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10


We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.


Counter-point: In 2006, the Oilers dressed Tobey Peterson for his first two NHL playoff games, and first NHL action in 4 years. They also played Brad Winchester with just 19 games experience in 10 post-season games that year. Neither turned out to be a big part of the future.

The Oilers were down 3-0 in the series and needed some level of spark. I was all for trying him in the lineup, but he looked a little tentative early and the coach didn't seem to trust him, playing him a total of just 3:27 over the entire game. It wasn't the debut that will make him an automatic roster player next year.

I think there's tons of potential in the player and I think there's a good chance he plays a lot of hockey in Edmonton next year, but I don't think he's likely to be in the opening lineup, and ideally when he is brought up, we can put him in Foegele's spot on the fourth line, rather than seeing him as a replacement for Yamamoto or Puljujarvi higher up the roster.

I get you get off disagree with me all the time but you are seriously using Toby Pederson and Brad Winchester as a comparison?! Worse, dragging players from 16 yrs ago. Oh come on Adam, be better!


What I'm saying, is that just because a young player gets a few minutes of post-season ice time, it's not a great predictor of how much they'll play the next season.

Those players got a bigger push than Holloway, and still weren't big contributors to start the next year (although MacTavish would eventually fall in love with Tobey.)

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810929 is a reply to message #810927 ]
Thu, 28 July 2022 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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I honestly can’t find a difference between Holloway and Tobey P. Just a couple carbon copies of the same player

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810930 is a reply to message #810929 ]
Thu, 28 July 2022 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Tobey scored in the playoffs.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810931 is a reply to message #810930 ]
Thu, 28 July 2022 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 28 July 2022 12:40

Tobey scored in the playoffs.


Tobey saved us from getting Patrick Kane too. Butterfly effect says we wouldn't have got McDavid if not for Tobey.

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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810937 is a reply to message #810930 ]
Thu, 28 July 2022 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 28 July 2022 12:40

Tobey scored in the playoffs.


Winchester too. And he grabbed an octopus.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810938 is a reply to message #810929 ]
Thu, 28 July 2022 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 28 July 2022 14:37

I honestly can’t find a difference between Holloway and Tobey P. Just a couple carbon copies of the same player


Pretty sure I heard Holloway was like Reasoner, which is basically Joe Sakic. Could be our GM in 30 years.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810939 is a reply to message #810938 ]
Fri, 29 July 2022 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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or 3 years if this whole 'playing' thing doesn't work out.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811037 is a reply to message #810939 ]
Sun, 07 August 2022 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Update on how Arbitration 2022 is proceeding as of August 9.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-salary-arbitration-hearings-sch edule/c-335014434

Kind of a nothing-to-see-here list. Matthew Tkachuk was a club-elected arbitration, and he was traded and signed by Florida.


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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811710 is a reply to message #810671 ]
Wed, 07 September 2022 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Maybe people have seen already, but I lol every time

https://i.imgflip.com/6sm5zt.jpg


Pulju hopefully erases this impression many have of him completely this season.

[Updated on: Wed, 07 September 2022 21:03]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811712 is a reply to message #811710 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 02:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 20:01

Maybe people have seen already, but I lol every time

https://i.imgflip.com/6sm5zt.jpg


Pulju hopefully erases this impression many have of him completely this season.


Seek and ye shall find...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1567595286528405504

[Updated on: Thu, 08 September 2022 02:39]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811713 is a reply to message #811712 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Nielsen is going to do a section of his show about JP in short, shirtless having a dance party in his living room.

I know JP is in good shape so I wouldn't mind seeing videos of him on the ice working on this game with a skills coach or showing up to Edmonton early like Leon to work on his game or being at the " unofficial" captains skates that are I believe started yesterday.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811714 is a reply to message #811713 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 08:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 08:15

Nielsen is going to do a section of his show about JP in short, shirtless having a dance party in his living room.

I know JP is in good shape so I wouldn't mind seeing videos of him on the ice working on this game with a skills coach or showing up to Edmonton early like Leon to work on his game or being at the " unofficial" captains skates that are I believe started yesterday.


https://c.tenor.com/6qJ1NBMnuUUAAAAd/let-the-hate-flow-through-you-sidious.gif

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811715 is a reply to message #811714 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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No problem. Just never seen a player get so much hype about working out and having fun off the ice and so little about hockey. I saw a picture of shirtless McD and his girlfriend on a boat this summer and I am willing to bet, he doesn't have as good of abs as JP does. I don't do my own advanced stats so maybe great abs count more on spreadsheets than finishing plays for goals.

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811721 is a reply to message #811715 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 08:26

No problem. Just never seen a player get so much hype about working out and having fun off the ice and so little about hockey. I saw a picture of shirtless McD and his girlfriend on a boat this summer and I am willing to bet, he doesn't have as good of abs as JP does. I don't do my own advanced stats so maybe great abs count more on spreadsheets than finishing plays for goals.



The NHL has done such a lousy job marketing their players that the fans of this league cannot even have some fun getting to know the person over the player. You are not alone RDOF, but it's too bad because some of perceived hardest workers in the league might be the biggest jagoffs in real life. I cannot say for certain, but has everyone who has hit the ice been well documented already, and do we even know if Jesse is cleared to skate yet?

This is a nothing burger. Just enjoy it.

(Abs are made in the kitchen and not the gym. It is a small amount of body fat that McDavid chooses to keep that keeps his beach body hidden)

[Updated on: Thu, 08 September 2022 09:55]

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 Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811725 is a reply to message #811721 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 09:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 08:26

No problem. Just never seen a player get so much hype about working out and having fun off the ice and so little about hockey. I saw a picture of shirtless McD and his girlfriend on a boat this summer and I am willing to bet, he doesn't have as good of abs as JP does. I don't do my own advanced stats so maybe great abs count more on spreadsheets than finishing plays for goals.



The NHL has done such a lousy job marketing their players that the fans of this league cannot even have some fun getting to know the person over the player. You are not alone RDOF, but it's too bad because some of perceived hardest workers in the league might be the biggest jagoffs in real life. I cannot say for certain, but has everyone who has hit the ice been well documented already, and do we even know if Jesse is cleared to skate yet?

This is a nothing burger. Just enjoy it.

(Abs are made in the kitchen and not the gym. It is a small amount of body fat that McDavid chooses to keep that keeps his beach body hidden)


I thought Jesse signing Shakira was funny. Like the dog enjoying the breeze too.

Sadly that's all I was able to get out of the video.

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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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