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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806781 is a reply to message #806780 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 11:23

Adam
Messages: 6875
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:08

So it's Nuge's wingers fault on that second goal? Go watch the play. The wingers aren't involved nor should they be involved.

I am not saying Nuge was the only reason the Oilers lost but there is Exhibit A of a lack of engagement by the Oilers and an unwillingness to play the game hard that is 100% a requirement for the playoffs. When you default to the soft play, you lose every time. A guy who has been on the team for 11 yrs and supposedly is sick of losing as much as Nuge says he is, shouldn't be the one doing that crap. But it's golden boy Nuge who does no wrong so it's someone else's fault of course.

I know you hate Nuge. It's okay.

I didn't mention the second goal at all. There were a lot of mistakes by a lot of players last night, and they pretty much all ended in the back of our net. I'm not Todd McLellan, so I'm not going to go through each one, break them down and assign blame.

Every player is going to have giveaways at some point, and some result in goals. We shouldn't be evaluating players based on single high profile plays. That's how mistakes are made.

Nugent-Hopkins is a big piece on this team, and he needs to be put in a position to be successful, especially if he is going to take relatively hard minutes - which is pretty much assured with Draisaitl injured and McLeod a rookie who hasn't yet shown he can do anything close to what Nuge can.

If you're playing with inadequate, out-matched wingers, it hampers what the line is capable of. Because Archibald sucks hard at puck retrieval, we get next to zero zone time with him. That means that we're always playing in our zone or the neutral zone, so any turnovers are going to be more glaring. It also tends to be more exhausting.

I think that the weaker wingers also necessitate more off-the-glass-and-out plays, which again, cede control to the opposition and result in more defending.

At no point have I said that Nugent-Hopkins is playing his best hockey, but I think he needs to be in a position to succeed and giving him Archibald and Ryan isn't the route.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806782 is a reply to message #806743 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 11:26

K.McC#24
Messages: 2827
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Rutuu wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 22:52

If Markstrom plays like that we've got this series.

Only game 1.

Yeah the Oilers were playing with house money to get this game back to even. If it weren't Kane getting muscled off that puck and a stop at that point or after, this might have been a miracle game 1 for the Oilers.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806783 is a reply to message #806780 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 11:27

Kr55
Messages: 9800
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:08

Adam wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 10:42

Skoobz wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 08:43

I thought the Nuge line was horrific. Awful turn over by Nuge, down 2-0 a min in. Nuge was SOFT as it gets and zero battle.

Totally agree. You can't have your 3C lay an egg in a game like this - for me, it was the giveaways that stood out with Nuge last night. He's never going to play especially heavy, but he needs to play smart every night.

Nurse was nowhere near physical enough. He'd be in the battle position in front of the net, but not leaning on guys at all.

The usual suspects showed up and played hard - I thought Kane played his worst game of the playoffs though.

The refs (or maybe the time keeper) screwing up on the coincidentals and letting Turtle out of the box first was a pretty egregious error.

If JW wants to stay 11/7, I'd consider putting in Nemo for Russell. Could use the aggression. If he goes back to 12/6, I think you need to put in Foegele for Archibald. 12th guy? I don't know - Brassard or Holloway.

It's time to get Nuge some real wingers. For some reason, Archibald has been stapled to his side since game 2 or 3 of the last series, and he's been noticeable for laying hits, but that's it. While the Edmonton media guys and the large less sophisticated segment of the fanbase just notice that, he contributes very little in the way of retrieving pucks, advancing pucks or creating scoring chances. We just get dominated when he's on the ice, with the only positives managed are the hits on the forecheck - a forecheck that's never sustained because it never results in turning over pucks.

With Draisaitl hurt, that's the de facto second line, and they're just getting destroyed. I think we need to see a lot less Archibald. Pair Nuge with Hyman or Yamamoto or Puljujarvi or even Holloway - someone who has some ability to take the game to the Flames so that the line isn't constantly playing defence.

I like Derek Ryan's game a little more but is he really someone we want playing that far up the lineup too? Nuge needs help - especially if he's going head to head with the 2nd line for Calgary.

We also need a save. Smith was horrible last night and Koskinen wasn't a lot better. I think they go back to Smith because Koskinen didn't exactly grab the job. I imagine it was nice for the Flames after seeing Oettinger's coming out party in Round 1 to find that shots somehow just slide right through our guys. Those first and third goals - yuck. Third one is a bad giveaway, but it's a fourth liner with a weak shot and it's just straight through.

I do feel like Jay Woodcroft seems to be falling back to more traditional thinking in the playoffs rather than using some of what made him successful in the regular season. I hope that we see that change here and he starts pushing the envelope a little more.

I will say, I am not overly concerned about the PP. The Flames clearly came in prepared to defend against that powerplay. They had a good strategy, but playoffs is about punch and counter-punch, so having seen what they are doing, we should be able to make adjustments to flip the script there again. I don't think we're going to see those guys held off the board much longer.

I still like our odds because we have Connor McDavid and they don't.

So it's Nuge's wingers fault on that second goal? Go watch the play. The wingers aren't involved nor should they be involved.

I am not saying Nuge was the only reason the Oilers lost but there is Exhibit A of a lack of engagement by the Oilers and an unwillingness to play the game hard that is 100% a requirement for the playoffs. When you default to the soft play, you lose every time. A guy who has been on the team for 11 yrs and supposedly is sick of losing as much as Nuge says he is, shouldn't be the one doing that crap. But it's golden boy Nuge who does no wrong so it's someone else's fault of course.

Nuge will always need wingers or a C that can carry play for him if you want offense when he's out there. He's had some very good defensive moments in the playoffs, but he's still waiting for Archibald to make a Drai pass to look good offensively, which will happen once in 2 years. We already used that one up in one of the Kings blowout games :)

Maybe we should be trying Drai on Nuge's wing now and then. Sadly, this lineup becomes very difficult to get things from when Drai can't center his own line now that he can barely skate. DO agree with Adam that a Nuge line is pretty hopeless with Ryan/Archie on his wings. Nuge will never drive 5v5 play. So best case for that line is killing time on the boards in the offensive zone, some pocket picking turnovers that turn into a dump and chase, that kinda stuff. Nuge can be very good 5v5 though when he is getting opportunities to shoot and can get a pass when he's open in a good spot in the offensive zone. That's just never coming with these wingers. All 3 of the guys on his line dump and chase and play is usually dying on the boards in the offensive end.

[Updated on: Thu, 19 May 2022 11:31]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806784 is a reply to message #806781 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 11:37

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3778
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:08

So it's Nuge's wingers fault on that second goal? Go watch the play. The wingers aren't involved nor should they be involved.

I am not saying Nuge was the only reason the Oilers lost but there is Exhibit A of a lack of engagement by the Oilers and an unwillingness to play the game hard that is 100% a requirement for the playoffs. When you default to the soft play, you lose every time. A guy who has been on the team for 11 yrs and supposedly is sick of losing as much as Nuge says he is, shouldn't be the one doing that crap. But it's golden boy Nuge who does no wrong so it's someone else's fault of course.

I know you hate Nuge. It's okay.

I didn't mention the second goal at all. There were a lot of mistakes by a lot of players last night, and they pretty much all ended in the back of our net. I'm not Todd McLellan, so I'm not going to go through each one, break them down and assign blame.

Every player is going to have giveaways at some point, and some result in goals. We shouldn't be evaluating players based on single high profile plays. That's how mistakes are made.

Nugent-Hopkins is a big piece on this team, and he needs to be put in a position to be successful, especially if he is going to take relatively hard minutes - which is pretty much assured with Draisaitl injured and McLeod a rookie who hasn't yet shown he can do anything close to what Nuge can.

If you're playing with inadequate, out-matched wingers, it hampers what the line is capable of. Because Archibald sucks hard at puck retrieval, we get next to zero zone time with him. That means that we're always playing in our zone or the neutral zone, so any turnovers are going to be more glaring. It also tends to be more exhausting.

I think that the weaker wingers also necessitate more off-the-glass-and-out plays, which again, cede control to the opposition and result in more defending.

At no point have I said that Nugent-Hopkins is playing his best hockey, but I think he needs to be in a position to succeed and giving him Archibald and Ryan isn't the route.

I don't hate Nuge what so ever. That's a completely made up lie on your part. I just don't give the guy a free pass like many Oilers fans do.

He's an 11 yr Oiler, the longest serving Oiler, he is one of the main guys that set the standard as to how the team plays and what is acceptable. The play on that goal is not acceptable if you want to be a winning team. If this was his first year and first playoff game, then I could let it slip. It's not. He's been in the league for 11 yrs, he's supposed to know better. The Oilers have decided that he is one of the guys they want around showing the way for anyone who becomes an Oiler for the next 7 more years. That's not acceptable. If it was a bad read or you didn't see/expect a defender and you made a bad pass for a goal against, I can accept that. Mistakes happen.

He made a choice not to engage. He made a choice to try and make the easy way work when the harder way is the only way that works. That isn't me "hating" on poor untouchable Nuge, that's voicing frustration at a player who should know better and who is a guy that young players like a McLeod will look too for guidance. McLeod isn't blessed with McD abilities, a more realistic goal for McLeod is a Nuge type player who can be decent at both ends of the ice. I expect better from an 11 yr player.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806790 is a reply to message #806702 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 15:27

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3953
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

At least the Oilers (Smith) made the record books.. fastest two goals to start a game in NHL playoff history.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806792 is a reply to message #806783 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 15:40

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3778
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:08

Adam wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 10:42

Skoobz wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 08:43

I thought the Nuge line was horrific. Awful turn over by Nuge, down 2-0 a min in. Nuge was SOFT as it gets and zero battle.

Totally agree. You can't have your 3C lay an egg in a game like this - for me, it was the giveaways that stood out with Nuge last night. He's never going to play especially heavy, but he needs to play smart every night.

Nurse was nowhere near physical enough. He'd be in the battle position in front of the net, but not leaning on guys at all.

The usual suspects showed up and played hard - I thought Kane played his worst game of the playoffs though.

The refs (or maybe the time keeper) screwing up on the coincidentals and letting Turtle out of the box first was a pretty egregious error.

If JW wants to stay 11/7, I'd consider putting in Nemo for Russell. Could use the aggression. If he goes back to 12/6, I think you need to put in Foegele for Archibald. 12th guy? I don't know - Brassard or Holloway.

It's time to get Nuge some real wingers. For some reason, Archibald has been stapled to his side since game 2 or 3 of the last series, and he's been noticeable for laying hits, but that's it. While the Edmonton media guys and the large less sophisticated segment of the fanbase just notice that, he contributes very little in the way of retrieving pucks, advancing pucks or creating scoring chances. We just get dominated when he's on the ice, with the only positives managed are the hits on the forecheck - a forecheck that's never sustained because it never results in turning over pucks.

With Draisaitl hurt, that's the de facto second line, and they're just getting destroyed. I think we need to see a lot less Archibald. Pair Nuge with Hyman or Yamamoto or Puljujarvi or even Holloway - someone who has some ability to take the game to the Flames so that the line isn't constantly playing defence.

I like Derek Ryan's game a little more but is he really someone we want playing that far up the lineup too? Nuge needs help - especially if he's going head to head with the 2nd line for Calgary.

We also need a save. Smith was horrible last night and Koskinen wasn't a lot better. I think they go back to Smith because Koskinen didn't exactly grab the job. I imagine it was nice for the Flames after seeing Oettinger's coming out party in Round 1 to find that shots somehow just slide right through our guys. Those first and third goals - yuck. Third one is a bad giveaway, but it's a fourth liner with a weak shot and it's just straight through.

I do feel like Jay Woodcroft seems to be falling back to more traditional thinking in the playoffs rather than using some of what made him successful in the regular season. I hope that we see that change here and he starts pushing the envelope a little more.

I will say, I am not overly concerned about the PP. The Flames clearly came in prepared to defend against that powerplay. They had a good strategy, but playoffs is about punch and counter-punch, so having seen what they are doing, we should be able to make adjustments to flip the script there again. I don't think we're going to see those guys held off the board much longer.

I still like our odds because we have Connor McDavid and they don't.

So it's Nuge's wingers fault on that second goal? Go watch the play. The wingers aren't involved nor should they be involved.

I am not saying Nuge was the only reason the Oilers lost but there is Exhibit A of a lack of engagement by the Oilers and an unwillingness to play the game hard that is 100% a requirement for the playoffs. When you default to the soft play, you lose every time. A guy who has been on the team for 11 yrs and supposedly is sick of losing as much as Nuge says he is, shouldn't be the one doing that crap. But it's golden boy Nuge who does no wrong so it's someone else's fault of course.

Nuge will always need wingers or a C that can carry play for him if you want offense when he's out there. He's had some very good defensive moments in the playoffs, but he's still waiting for Archibald to make a Drai pass to look good offensively, which will happen once in 2 years. We already used that one up in one of the Kings blowout games :)

Maybe we should be trying Drai on Nuge's wing now and then. Sadly, this lineup becomes very difficult to get things from when Drai can't center his own line now that he can barely skate. DO agree with Adam that a Nuge line is pretty hopeless with Ryan/Archie on his wings. Nuge will never drive 5v5 play. So best case for that line is killing time on the boards in the offensive zone, some pocket picking turnovers that turn into a dump and chase, that kinda stuff. Nuge can be very good 5v5 though when he is getting opportunities to shoot and can get a pass when he's open in a good spot in the offensive zone. That's just never coming with these wingers. All 3 of the guys on his line dump and chase and play is usually dying on the boards in the offensive end.

I am not debating his wingers are the greatest but his wingers do not excuse the horrible defensive play he was solely responsible. Nor does it excuse the complete lack of being engaged as a player. Like I keep saying, he's an 11 yr vet. The hockey in the playoffs is way more intense and way more physical. Guys have to ramp up their games. Guys who never hit, have to hit. You don't have to crush guys all the time but you have to finish your checks. This isn't new this season, this is how it's been for... maybe since hockey was invented. I have no idea but way before I was born and I am 44. Stick checking guys and turning away from your opponent does not work in the playoffs EVER.

This isn't an Oilers things, every single team year after year have to do this. Having Archibald and Ryan on your wings shouldn't stop Nuge from doing that. He's supposedly one of the leaders of the team, one of the guys that sets the standard. That is what I am annoyed about. If a guy who's been in the league as long as Nuge and been an Oiler as long as he has, if he's not willing to do that, why the hell should a guy like McLeod do it? If the best player in the entire world realizes he has to ramp up the intensity and play harder and finish his checks, what excuse does Nuge have?

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806793 is a reply to message #806702 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 15:51

Rutuu
Messages: 108
Registered: March 2011
Location: Brisbane

No Cups

How did McDavid have 4pts and is a -1? Draisatl 3pts -2...Nurse and his new contract pending 0pts -3, RNH 2pts -1.

Woof.

Kane and Hyman did what they did and played even...we need more of that.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806794 is a reply to message #806793 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:05

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3778
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Gregor talked today about Nurse maybe having a core issue and he gave a few things he notices he doesn't do.
- His skating is OK but not as elite as normal. If there is something up with your hip or core, that would make sense.
- He supposedly likes to push off guys and keep them back with a hand. He's not doing that. If he's got a core issue, a lot of your power comes from your core so if it's hurt, it makes sense he wouldn't do that.
- He's not as physical. Nurse had 196 hits in 71 games. If you have a core issue you probably aren't propelling your body into someone very often.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806796 is a reply to message #806793 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:15

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7667
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Rutuu wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 15:51

How did McDavid have 4pts and is a -1? Draisatl 3pts -2...Nurse and his new contract pending 0pts -3, RNH 2pts -1.

Woof.

Kane and Hyman did what they did and played even...we need more of that.

According to some back of the post-it note math, that means McDavid was on for 4 goals for but also 5 goals against. Which isn't exactly elite. Interesting that, despite scoring 6 goals, only 6 Oilers registered a point. Worrisome.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806797 is a reply to message #806794 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:20

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3953
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 15:05

Gregor talked today about Nurse maybe having a core issue and he gave a few things he notices he doesn't do.
- His skating is OK but not as elite as normal. If there is something up with your hip or core, that would make sense.
- He supposedly likes to push off guys and keep them back with a hand. He's not doing that. If he's got a core issue, a lot of your power comes from your core so if it's hurt, it makes sense he wouldn't do that.
- He's not as physical. Nurse had 196 hits in 71 games. If you have a core issue you probably aren't propelling your body into someone very often.

Hip flexor/groin likely for Nurse. He looked slow, weak in puck battles. He looks like 60%.
Apart from that, needs to stop rushing up the ice and lobbing muffins into the goalie to kill a possession.

Leon looks like the same.. I remember a regular season game near the end of the season where Leon got tripped up and went flying into the end boards.. he went in kind of splay legged.. thought it was knee but maybe it was the groin/hip flexor.. he can't seem to push off hard for his first 2 or 3 steps.. getting caught standing still.

Nuge and Kane also missed a couple of practices before game 1, they might have some injuries as well.. if they do.. then hopefully they heal up.. quick!

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806798 is a reply to message #806784 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:24

Oscargasm
Messages: 5734
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:37

I just don't give the guy a free pass like many Oilers fans do.

Unless, of course, the players name is Josh Archibald. Or any other replacement level player whom Bob Stauffer tells you to hoot and holler for.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806799 is a reply to message #806794 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:26

Oscargasm
Messages: 5734
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 16:05

Gregor talked today about Nurse maybe having a core issue and he gave a few things he notices he doesn't do.
- His skating is OK but not as elite as normal. If there is something up with your hip or core, that would make sense.
- He supposedly likes to push off guys and keep them back with a hand. He's not doing that. If he's got a core issue, a lot of your power comes from your core so if it's hurt, it makes sense he wouldn't do that.
- He's not as physical. Nurse had 196 hits in 71 games. If you have a core issue you probably aren't propelling your body into someone very often.

Nurse’ core issue is between the ears. He’s a pretender.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806800 is a reply to message #806794 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:30

Rutuu
Messages: 108
Registered: March 2011
Location: Brisbane

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 16:05

Gregor talked today about Nurse maybe having a core issue and he gave a few things he notices he doesn't do.
- His skating is OK but not as elite as normal. If there is something up with your hip or core, that would make sense.
- He supposedly likes to push off guys and keep them back with a hand. He's not doing that. If he's got a core issue, a lot of your power comes from your core so if it's hurt, it makes sense he wouldn't do that.
- He's not as physical. Nurse had 196 hits in 71 games. If you have a core issue you probably aren't propelling your body into someone very often.

I really really want to believe this narrative with Nurse. We've committed so much to him moving forward. That darn JFresh chart for Nurse keeps popping into my head. I guess we were bound to give a few McDavid effect contracts out based on counting stats given our management.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806801 is a reply to message #806702 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:33

Oscargasm
Messages: 5734
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Gasm’s Musty Game 2 Lineup

Nuge and Puljujarvi winger PAIR.
Kane and Hyman winger PAIR.
Foegele and Yamo winger PAIR.

McDavid and Leon rotate thru being those pairs Centre.

Malone-Ryan-Kassian

Kulak-Ceci
Keith-Bouch
Nurse-Barrie
Nemo

Arch, McLeod and Kowboy out. Malone, Foegele and Nemo in.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806804 is a reply to message #806792 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 16:57

Kr55
Messages: 9800
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 15:40

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:08

Adam wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 10:42

Skoobz wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 09:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 08:43

I thought the Nuge line was horrific. Awful turn over by Nuge, down 2-0 a min in. Nuge was SOFT as it gets and zero battle.

Totally agree. You can't have your 3C lay an egg in a game like this - for me, it was the giveaways that stood out with Nuge last night. He's never going to play especially heavy, but he needs to play smart every night.

Nurse was nowhere near physical enough. He'd be in the battle position in front of the net, but not leaning on guys at all.

The usual suspects showed up and played hard - I thought Kane played his worst game of the playoffs though.

The refs (or maybe the time keeper) screwing up on the coincidentals and letting Turtle out of the box first was a pretty egregious error.

If JW wants to stay 11/7, I'd consider putting in Nemo for Russell. Could use the aggression. If he goes back to 12/6, I think you need to put in Foegele for Archibald. 12th guy? I don't know - Brassard or Holloway.

It's time to get Nuge some real wingers. For some reason, Archibald has been stapled to his side since game 2 or 3 of the last series, and he's been noticeable for laying hits, but that's it. While the Edmonton media guys and the large less sophisticated segment of the fanbase just notice that, he contributes very little in the way of retrieving pucks, advancing pucks or creating scoring chances. We just get dominated when he's on the ice, with the only positives managed are the hits on the forecheck - a forecheck that's never sustained because it never results in turning over pucks.

With Draisaitl hurt, that's the de facto second line, and they're just getting destroyed. I think we need to see a lot less Archibald. Pair Nuge with Hyman or Yamamoto or Puljujarvi or even Holloway - someone who has some ability to take the game to the Flames so that the line isn't constantly playing defence.

I like Derek Ryan's game a little more but is he really someone we want playing that far up the lineup too? Nuge needs help - especially if he's going head to head with the 2nd line for Calgary.

We also need a save. Smith was horrible last night and Koskinen wasn't a lot better. I think they go back to Smith because Koskinen didn't exactly grab the job. I imagine it was nice for the Flames after seeing Oettinger's coming out party in Round 1 to find that shots somehow just slide right through our guys. Those first and third goals - yuck. Third one is a bad giveaway, but it's a fourth liner with a weak shot and it's just straight through.

I do feel like Jay Woodcroft seems to be falling back to more traditional thinking in the playoffs rather than using some of what made him successful in the regular season. I hope that we see that change here and he starts pushing the envelope a little more.

I will say, I am not overly concerned about the PP. The Flames clearly came in prepared to defend against that powerplay. They had a good strategy, but playoffs is about punch and counter-punch, so having seen what they are doing, we should be able to make adjustments to flip the script there again. I don't think we're going to see those guys held off the board much longer.

I still like our odds because we have Connor McDavid and they don't.

So it's Nuge's wingers fault on that second goal? Go watch the play. The wingers aren't involved nor should they be involved.

I am not saying Nuge was the only reason the Oilers lost but there is Exhibit A of a lack of engagement by the Oilers and an unwillingness to play the game hard that is 100% a requirement for the playoffs. When you default to the soft play, you lose every time. A guy who has been on the team for 11 yrs and supposedly is sick of losing as much as Nuge says he is, shouldn't be the one doing that crap. But it's golden boy Nuge who does no wrong so it's someone else's fault of course.

Nuge will always need wingers or a C that can carry play for him if you want offense when he's out there. He's had some very good defensive moments in the playoffs, but he's still waiting for Archibald to make a Drai pass to look good offensively, which will happen once in 2 years. We already used that one up in one of the Kings blowout games :)

Maybe we should be trying Drai on Nuge's wing now and then. Sadly, this lineup becomes very difficult to get things from when Drai can't center his own line now that he can barely skate. DO agree with Adam that a Nuge line is pretty hopeless with Ryan/Archie on his wings. Nuge will never drive 5v5 play. So best case for that line is killing time on the boards in the offensive zone, some pocket picking turnovers that turn into a dump and chase, that kinda stuff. Nuge can be very good 5v5 though when he is getting opportunities to shoot and can get a pass when he's open in a good spot in the offensive zone. That's just never coming with these wingers. All 3 of the guys on his line dump and chase and play is usually dying on the boards in the offensive end.

I am not debating his wingers are the greatest but his wingers do not excuse the horrible defensive play he was solely responsible. Nor does it excuse the complete lack of being engaged as a player. Like I keep saying, he's an 11 yr vet. The hockey in the playoffs is way more intense and way more physical. Guys have to ramp up their games. Guys who never hit, have to hit. You don't have to crush guys all the time but you have to finish your checks. This isn't new this season, this is how it's been for... maybe since hockey was invented. I have no idea but way before I was born and I am 44. Stick checking guys and turning away from your opponent does not work in the playoffs EVER.

This isn't an Oilers things, every single team year after year have to do this. Having Archibald and Ryan on your wings shouldn't stop Nuge from doing that. He's supposedly one of the leaders of the team, one of the guys that sets the standard. That is what I am annoyed about. If a guy who's been in the league as long as Nuge and been an Oiler as long as he has, if he's not willing to do that, why the hell should a guy like McLeod do it? If the best player in the entire world realizes he has to ramp up the intensity and play harder and finish his checks, what excuse does Nuge have?

No player is perfect. Not gonna go too nuts over one Nuge play. 90% of the roster didn't show up in that game. I'm just generally commenting on the Nuge and the expectations we have to have for him now. He is about as vanilla as a skilled hockey player can be. Intensity runs between 4 and 5 out of 10 unless someone does something to make him really angry. He will never learn to win board battles and will be mediocre on faceoffs forever. We have learned how best asset is his shot but still keep hoping he can be a playmaker 5v5. He can be a hobo's Datsyuk defensively and make some nice stick lifts and steals. We all wish he could be half the player a guy like danault is in the playoffs but that will never happen.

We do need the Nuge now with Drai messed up so ideally he would play with a couple good playmakers and guys that can win board battles. Pulju and hyman maybe. Maybe drai and pulju and McDavid plays with Kane and hyman. Just is a must that nuge plays with guys that can drive play or it will just be a constant struggle for his line to produce anything.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806808 is a reply to message #806784 ]	Thu, 19 May 2022 17:49

Adam
Messages: 6875
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 11:37

I don't hate Nuge what so ever. That's a completely made up lie on your part. I just don't give the guy a free pass like many Oilers fans do.

He's an 11 yr Oiler, the longest serving Oiler, he is one of the main guys that set the standard as to how the team plays and what is acceptable. The play on that goal is not acceptable if you want to be a winning team. If this was his first year and first playoff game, then I could let it slip. It's not. He's been in the league for 11 yrs, he's supposed to know better. The Oilers have decided that he is one of the guys they want around showing the way for anyone who becomes an Oiler for the next 7 more years. That's not acceptable. If it was a bad read or you didn't see/expect a defender and you made a bad pass for a goal against, I can accept that. Mistakes happen.

He made a choice not to engage. He made a choice to try and make the easy way work when the harder way is the only way that works. That isn't me "hating" on poor untouchable Nuge, that's voicing frustration at a player who should know better and who is a guy that young players like a McLeod will look too for guidance. McLeod isn't blessed with McD abilities, a more realistic goal for McLeod is a Nuge type player who can be decent at both ends of the ice. I expect better from an 11 yr player.

Again, you're cherry picking a single bad play and using that to evaluate the player. I notice that you aren't in here talking about Kane making a really bad read and getting his pocket picked by a fourth liner for the third goal, or Draisaitl making a bad giveaway to spring loose Tkachuk for the 8-6 goal. We could do this on an awful lot of goals - look at the player who jumped early, who didn't see the danger, who got walked by a dangle...it is a single play in the game and if you're evaluating players based on a single play, you're going to be wrong a lot more than you're right.

It doesn't matter how long someone has been here. Kulak's been here a very short time, Holloway could make his Oilers debut this week. That doesn't actually impact any thing about what they are supposed to do or not.

I honestly hate analysis about "soft play" because more often than not it's people who think that a mistake was because of lack of effort and usually that's just not the case. I don't believe that anyone on the Oilers didn't care about the game last night and came to work thinking they should just mail it in. I don't think they were trying to cut corners. That's a lazy narrative, and it's again, usually wrong. Nuge made an error. That's it.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806820 is a reply to message #806801 ]	Fri, 20 May 2022 01:28

stemhovlichski
Messages: 346
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR

No Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 16:33

Gasm’s Musty Game 2 Lineup

Nuge and Puljujarvi winger PAIR.
Kane and Hyman winger PAIR.
Foegele and Yamo winger PAIR.

McDavid and Leon rotate thru being those pairs Centre.

Malone-Ryan-Kassian

Kulak-Ceci
Keith-Bouch
Nurse-Barrie
Nemo

Arch, McLeod and Kowboy out. Malone, Foegele and Nemo in.

Foegele/Yamo is too weak of a combo. Foegele kills plays dead - can't set up chances at all and can't score or hit. He's in my doghouse. Would rather have Arch or McLeod out there because they at least carry the risk of scoring or forechecking.

Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010

"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806874 is a reply to message #806820 ]	Fri, 20 May 2022 16:23

PlusOne
Messages: 1532
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

stemhovlichski wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 01:28

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 16:33

Gasm’s Musty Game 2 Lineup

Nuge and Puljujarvi winger PAIR.
Kane and Hyman winger PAIR.
Foegele and Yamo winger PAIR.

McDavid and Leon rotate thru being those pairs Centre.

Malone-Ryan-Kassian

Kulak-Ceci
Keith-Bouch
Nurse-Barrie
Nemo

Arch, McLeod and Kowboy out. Malone, Foegele and Nemo in.

Foegele/Yamo is too weak of a combo. Foegele kills plays dead - can't set up chances at all and can't score or hit. He's in my doghouse. Would rather have Arch or McLeod out there because they at least carry the risk of scoring or forechecking.

Really? Yamo is everything the media and a couple fans with Archibald was in this playoffs. When he forechecks and hits it serves a purpose, not just running into a guy in the neutral zone all while taking himself out of the play.
As far as scoring goes, when the team needs a goal I would take Yamo with the puck 10 times out of 10 if the other choice is Archibald. Yamo is no McDavid but I notice him in the offensive zone a few times a game. I barely notice Archibald at all.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806875 is a reply to message #806874 ]	Fri, 20 May 2022 17:04

Oscargasm
Messages: 5734
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 16:23

stemhovlichski wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 01:28

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 16:33

Gasm’s Musty Game 2 Lineup

Nuge and Puljujarvi winger PAIR.
Kane and Hyman winger PAIR.
Foegele and Yamo winger PAIR.

McDavid and Leon rotate thru being those pairs Centre.

Malone-Ryan-Kassian

Kulak-Ceci
Keith-Bouch
Nurse-Barrie
Nemo

Arch, McLeod and Kowboy out. Malone, Foegele and Nemo in.

Foegele/Yamo is too weak of a combo. Foegele kills plays dead - can't set up chances at all and can't score or hit. He's in my doghouse. Would rather have Arch or McLeod out there because they at least carry the risk of scoring or forechecking.

Really? Yamo is everything the media and a couple fans with Archibald was in this playoffs. When he forechecks and hits it serves a purpose, not just running into a guy in the neutral zone all while taking himself out of the play.
As far as scoring goes, when the team needs a goal I would take Yamo with the puck 10 times out of 10 if the other choice is Archibald. Yamo is no McDavid but I notice him in the offensive zone a few times a game. I barely notice Archibald at all.

Seems, based on lines today, that the Gasm Musty’tron 6900 hit a big ‘ol homerun on that Foegele - Yamo pairing. We input our pairs with Drai as a winger, based on our pant launching technology, but seems he’s stuck to wing duty which paired with Kane and Connor at Centre gives us mega pant launch vibes.

JP as a winger for Nuge is paradise as well.

Only thing I’d change with these lines from todays skate is, yank Arch and put in Holloway or Malone.

Also, it’s funny how certain posters have gone quiet over Archibald these last couple days.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
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Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806883 is a reply to message #806875 ]	Fri, 20 May 2022 20:32

stemhovlichski
Messages: 346
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR

No Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 17:04

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 16:23

stemhovlichski wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 01:28

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 16:33

Gasm’s Musty Game 2 Lineup

Nuge and Puljujarvi winger PAIR.
Kane and Hyman winger PAIR.
Foegele and Yamo winger PAIR.

McDavid and Leon rotate thru being those pairs Centre.

Malone-Ryan-Kassian

Kulak-Ceci
Keith-Bouch
Nurse-Barrie
Nemo

Arch, McLeod and Kowboy out. Malone, Foegele and Nemo in.

Foegele/Yamo is too weak of a combo. Foegele kills plays dead - can't set up chances at all and can't score or hit. He's in my doghouse. Would rather have Arch or McLeod out there because they at least carry the risk of scoring or forechecking.

Really? Yamo is everything the media and a couple fans with Archibald was in this playoffs. When he forechecks and hits it serves a purpose, not just running into a guy in the neutral zone all while taking himself out of the play.
As far as scoring goes, when the team needs a goal I would take Yamo with the puck 10 times out of 10 if the other choice is Archibald. Yamo is no McDavid but I notice him in the offensive zone a few times a game. I barely notice Archibald at all.

Seems, based on lines today, that the Gasm Musty’tron 6900 hit a big ‘ol homerun on that Foegele - Yamo pairing. We input our pairs with Drai as a winger, based on our pant launching technology, but seems he’s stuck to wing duty which paired with Kane and Connor at Centre gives us mega pant launch vibes.

JP as a winger for Nuge is paradise as well.

Only thing I’d change with these lines from todays skate is, yank Arch and put in Holloway or Malone.

Also, it’s funny how certain posters have gone quiet over Archibald these last couple days.

I didn't call out Yamo for being weak, just think that him playing with Foegele and Archie isn't a good combo. Yamo is a great forechecker and hard worker in the slot. Wish we had him on a power forecheck scoring line.

Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010

"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Calgary (Game #1) [message #806886 is a reply to message #806883 ]	Fri, 20 May 2022 20:35

PlusOne
Messages: 1532
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

stemhovlichski wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 20:32

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 17:04

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 16:23

stemhovlichski wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 01:28

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 19 May 2022 16:33

Gasm’s Musty Game 2 Lineup

Nuge and Puljujarvi winger PAIR.
Kane and Hyman winger PAIR.
Foegele and Yamo winger PAIR.

McDavid and Leon rotate thru being those pairs Centre.

Malone-Ryan-Kassian

Kulak-Ceci
Keith-Bouch
Nurse-Barrie
Nemo

Arch, McLeod and Kowboy out. Malone, Foegele and Nemo in.

Foegele/Yamo is too weak of a combo. Foegele kills plays dead - can't set up chances at all and can't score or hit. He's in my doghouse. Would rather have Arch or McLeod out there because they at least carry the risk of scoring or forechecking.

Really? Yamo is everything the media and a couple fans with Archibald was in this playoffs. When he forechecks and hits it serves a purpose, not just running into a guy in the neutral zone all while taking himself out of the play.
As far as scoring goes, when the team needs a goal I would take Yamo with the puck 10 times out of 10 if the other choice is Archibald. Yamo is no McDavid but I notice him in the offensive zone a few times a game. I barely notice Archibald at all.

Seems, based on lines today, that the Gasm Musty’tron 6900 hit a big ‘ol homerun on that Foegele - Yamo pairing. We input our pairs with Drai as a winger, based on our pant launching technology, but seems he’s stuck to wing duty which paired with Kane and Connor at Centre gives us mega pant launch vibes.

JP as a winger for Nuge is paradise as well.

Only thing I’d change with these lines from todays skate is, yank Arch and put in Holloway or Malone.

Also, it’s funny how certain posters have gone quiet over Archibald these last couple days.

I didn't call out Yamo for being weak, just think that him playing with Foegele and Archie isn't a good combo. Yamo is a great forechecker and hard worker in the slot. Wish we had him on a power forecheck scoring line.

Fair enough.
When you said this "Foegele/Yamo is too weak of a combo. " I though you were lumping Yamo in with the invisible man, Foegele.
Also this " Would rather have Arch or McLeod out there because they at least carry the risk of scoring or forechecking." I also thought you were putting those two above Yamo in terms of forecheck and scoring threat.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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