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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783336 is a reply to message #783313 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Skoobz wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 13:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 12:28


I disagree. I do not think him not playing has nothing to do with the Oilers thinking he can't do it. I think it has everything to do with the other players on their defense.


Can he not get some game action on the left side? Bouchard getting experience playing on the left side is for sure more important to the future (and of little detriment) than playing Jones or Lagesson. Or why not play with 7 d more often and let Connor and Leon double shift with the fourth line?

I do agree that messing with the right side doesn't make a ton of sense, but what doesn't make sense is the seeming lack of effort to find some way to get him game time.


Agreed here. There should have been more effort to get him in the lineup. He was on the left side in his last couple appearances including the last one where the shots were something like 17-2 for the Oilers with him on the ice (only issue being Koskinen not stopping either of the two...)

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783337 is a reply to message #783335 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:18

Skoobz wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 12:12

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 11:48

Bouchard is at an age where he needs to be contributing. The Oilers should be keeping an eye on the market value of their players along with the development curve. If the team doesn't think he can be the guy - then they need to trade him while others don't see that yet.


It really seems like they don't think that he can be the guy. Surely, if you thought he could be the guy you would find him ice time. Surely, if you thought he couldn't you would do something to keep his value high, like letting him dominate in the minors.

I can't quite figure out ANY reason to have him languish on the taxi squad all year. ANY.

FWIW, I really like Barrie and hope that he likes playing enough with 97/29 that he would consider taking a moderate haircut on either salary or term to stay here. I'd comfortably give him 5x5, and I would leave Klefbom exposed to Seattle and hope they bite.


I think that the coach likes veterans, and Bouchard isn't veteran enough for him. I think he does look at Jones and Bear as if they're new pros too - although that just isn't the case at this point. Bear has 121 NHL games to his name and another 89 AHL games. Jones has 84 NHL games and 122 AHL games. They're both 23 years old. Those are NHL defencemen. They're maybe not fully formed yet, but after 200+ pro games in your organization, you should have a pretty good idea of what a player is, and where their ceiling is.

Lagesson too by the way. He's 25, has 25 NHL games, 83 AHL games and 63 Swedish league pro games. There should be no mystery with any of these players now for the Oilers and the coach shouldn't be concerned about them as if they're raw rookies.

Bob Stauffer likes to throw out ridiculously high numbers for how many games a defenceman needs to play in the NHL before you know what you have, but that just really isn't so, especially with really good defencemen. Most of them make an impact relatively quickly and at a relatively low age.

Bouchard is at 89 pro games (12 NHL, 54 AHL, 23 Sweden) and probably should be higher if he hadn't sat the bulk of this season. If they know he's not going to be able to take that spot from Barrie - then trade him now. He's got value now. If he is relegated to watching for another year, he's going to have a lot less value. People can believe right now it's just a coach with a thing for veterans and a team in a playoff race for position - that just won't last year after year. At some point if the team never takes the plunge, then people will start to think it's him that's the issue.


What’s Bob’s number, 300 games?

Likely heard it from Lowe or MacT and now it’s gospel. The kids should be sheltered, but given an opportunity to grow. Tipp loves proven NHL talent. That and Patrick Russell.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783338 is a reply to message #783334 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783345 is a reply to message #783338 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.





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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783351 is a reply to message #783345 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783377 is a reply to message #783351 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783379 is a reply to message #783377 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 20:26

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?


Zetterberg played in Sweden SEL until he was 22ish.
Datsyuk played in Russian RSL until he was 23.
Holmstrom in Sweden SEL until 23.
Kronwall in Sweden SEL until 22.

So they came in ripe from playing in Europe.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783381 is a reply to message #783379 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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nullterm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 21:33

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 20:26

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?


Zetterberg played in Sweden SEL until he was 22ish.
Datsyuk played in Russian RSL until he was 23.
Holmstrom in Sweden SEL until 23.
Kronwall in Sweden SEL until 22.

So they came in ripe from playing in Europe.


👌🏼👌🏼🧆 some overripe meatballs there

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OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783385 is a reply to message #783379 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 21:33

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 20:26

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?


Zetterberg played in Sweden SEL until he was 22ish.
Datsyuk played in Russian RSL until he was 23.
Holmstrom in Sweden SEL until 23.
Kronwall in Sweden SEL until 22.

So they came in ripe from playing in Europe.


Not really Holland's doing. First chance he had, he had them in the lineup.

And Bouchard is 22 at the start of next season.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784021 is a reply to message #768235 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784022 is a reply to message #784021 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

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OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784029 is a reply to message #784022 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784030 is a reply to message #784029 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

[Updated on: Sun, 02 May 2021 09:11]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784034 is a reply to message #784030 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

You can't just go for it every year. Next generational talent we draft things will be different around here.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784043 is a reply to message #784034 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6842
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 10:55

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

You can't just go for it every year. Next generational talent we draft things will be different around here.


I can't help but think that if we just had one more really high draft pick, we might finally be ready. Can't believe the team is blowing that this year. And for what?! Don't they know they're not ready to contend yet?!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784055 is a reply to message #784043 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5699
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Adam wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 13:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 10:55

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

You can't just go for it every year. Next generational talent we draft things will be different around here.


I can't help but think that if we just had one more really high draft pick, we might finally be ready. Can't believe the team is blowing that this year. And for what?! Don't they know they're not ready to contend yet?!


Have you seen how much cap space the Oilers will have after this season?! Next year is the year to go hard for it!

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784846 is a reply to message #768235 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6842
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Location: Edmonton, AB
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Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784847 is a reply to message #784846 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
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Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784848 is a reply to message #784847 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9703
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784850 is a reply to message #784848 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

Quenneville is like a young Darryl Sutter.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784854 is a reply to message #784850 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 3925
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
3 Cups
CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:02

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

Quenneville is like a young Darryl Sutter.


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 11:55]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784855 is a reply to message #768235 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
@OilersNerdAlert ran some numbers on McDavid and Barrie splits and it doesn't paint a very good picture for re-signing Barrie. There's no way the Oilers should be even considering re-signing Barrie for the numbers he's going to command:

Quote:

I kept them under my hat because it's too close to dinner!

At 5v5 McDavid w Barrie puts up 3.37 p/60. When Barrie steps off the ice, McD's scores at ... 3.95 p/60.

Meanwhile, McDavid's GA/60 rate falls from 3.03 GA/60 to 2.47 GA/60 when Barrie leaves.

AnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchor


https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919258906494976 03?s=20

The powerplay numbers are really the most surprising to me:

Quote:

Meanwhile on the PP, McDavid scores at 9.03 p/60 with Barrie and ... 10.44 p/60 without Barrie.

I mean, I knew it was bad, but come on.


If he's dragging the 1PP down, then what is he even bringing to the table?

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919262202547118 08?s=20

Barrie's numbers are also much worse without McDavid, which should be obvious, but the gaps are significant.

Quote:

He's +4.16 - 3.03 with McDavid.

He's +2.37 - 2.85 without McDavid.

Pointswise, he scores 1.91 p/60 with and 0.79 without.


The top 2 rows are GF/GA per 60.

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919397612757360 66?s=20

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784856 is a reply to message #784854 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:02

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

Quenneville is like a young Darryl Sutter.


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784857 is a reply to message #768235 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
Tyson Barrie for Norris Trophy campaign begins now.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784858 is a reply to message #784855 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9703
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Goose wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:44

@OilersNerdAlert ran some numbers on McDavid and Barrie splits and it doesn't paint a very good picture for re-signing Barrie. There's no way the Oilers should be even considering re-signing Barrie for the numbers he's going to command:

Quote:

I kept them under my hat because it's too close to dinner!

At 5v5 McDavid w Barrie puts up 3.37 p/60. When Barrie steps off the ice, McD's scores at ... 3.95 p/60.

Meanwhile, McDavid's GA/60 rate falls from 3.03 GA/60 to 2.47 GA/60 when Barrie leaves.

AnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchor


https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919258906494976 03?s=20

The powerplay numbers are really the most surprising to me:

Quote:

Meanwhile on the PP, McDavid scores at 9.03 p/60 with Barrie and ... 10.44 p/60 without Barrie.

I mean, I knew it was bad, but come on.


If he's dragging the 1PP down, then what is he even bringing to the table?

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919262202547118 08?s=20

Barrie's numbers are also much worse without McDavid, which should be obvious, but the gaps are significant.

Quote:

He's +4.16 - 3.03 with McDavid.

He's +2.37 - 2.85 without McDavid.

Pointswise, he scores 1.91 p/60 with and 0.79 without.


The top 2 rows are GF/GA per 60.

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919397612757360 66?s=20



Pretty fair assessment. I think he's been playing against too good of competition 5v5 all year too. His sweet spot is probably a 3rd pair PP specialist, but he's here to rack up points so he can get his 1st pair D retirement contract. We definitely should not be giving that to him. And you cannot discount the motivation he's getting to get that payday. His play could fall off next year, and it will anyways because of age.

Been refraining from Barrie bashing though, because I'm pretty confident he has no intention to extend here. He's here to rack up points and have fun repairing his image. Mission accomplished for how he's gonna be looked at by any team desperate for an offensive RHD. We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784860 is a reply to message #784855 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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I saw those OilersNerdAlert numbers last night, but I'm taking them with a little grain of salt too. I'm not sure we're really getting a clear picture with the data he presented. He came in with a bias and has presented as such, IMO.

For example, how many minutes has McDavid played without Barrie on the powerplay? I'm trying to find the data, but my guess is the sample size is a lot smaller, and that they've played a lot more together... which certainly could impact the data. Smaller samples can exaggerate differences or similarities that change with time.

Same could really be said for smaller sample size of data with other defenseman he has played with since to my eye Barrie and Nurse have played a lot more with McDavid than others (which also begs the question how Nurse compares. Do we dump him also?). McDavid needs to have a few good shifts with a few defesemen he normally doesn't play with to really shift that data. I'd love to see total minutes played with each of the defensman if that is available.

To be honest, I do find the Barrie-bashing annoying a bit. Only in Edmonton (and maybe Toronto) do you have the top two scorers in the NHL, the top defenseman in scoring, they are dramatically outscoring opposition when on the ice, and playing them together is controversial. I'd hate to see what some people would have done to Paul Coffey.

The top of the Oilers lineup (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Barrie, Smith) is producing at a rate we haven't seen since the 1980s. I've never watched them produce at this rate, so finding the rainy cloud in a blue sky isn't really for me right now.

And I do believe this - if any defenseman could do what Barrie has done this year, I imagine they would have. He is producing points at nearly double the rate any other defenseman McDavid has played with in his career has. McDavid is having a career year, and no doubt all this is linked... but perhaps Barrie getting the puck to McDavid with more frequency shouldn't be entirely dismissed out of hand.

I'm not even suggesting Barrie is incredible or this really complete defenseman. But despite how OilersNerdAlert presented things, he seems to work with well with McDavid, and I think we will lose some offensive production if Barrie leaves. If that's the case, you are actually probably hoping that the Oilers allow LESS goals than that they score MORE goals.

I could be wrong, but I think sample sizes need to be questions when looking at that data. If someone has the minutes played with each defenseman, that could be interesting, and if they are close, would be more of an apples to apples comparison.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 13:03]

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784862 is a reply to message #784858 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:13

We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.


I mean I agree to an extent - I am betting he and his agent are already making plans for after the UFA bonanza, but many other guys have played with McDrai, and nobody has really come close to what Barrie has done this year. Personally I believe Bouchard could do it (I think I became a bit of a fanboy in just his 13 games). But the problem is, nobody has before. Barrie has worked out about as well as any of us could have hoped for.

If I'm Holland, I have a line in the sand. Barrie and his camp will obviously have one too. Sadly I believe Barrie's line will be at the other end of the beach. But if they can figure something out for somewhat of a team friendly deal, then I'm all for it. As a 2nd/3rd pair PP specialist, we haven't had such a nice fit in a long time.

My guess is someone gives him something like $7X7 with NMC. And THAT I want no part of. As good of a fit as he is, he turns 30 in a couple of months.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784863 is a reply to message #784862 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Mike wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:40

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:13

We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.


I mean I agree to an extent - I am betting he and his agent are already making plans for after the UFA bonanza, but many other guys have played with McDrai, and nobody has really come close to what Barrie has done this year. Personally I believe Bouchard could do it (I think I became a bit of a fanboy in just his 13 games). But the problem is, nobody has before. Barrie has worked out about as well as any of us could have hoped for.

If I'm Holland, I have a line in the sand. Barrie and his camp will obviously have one too. Sadly I believe Barrie's line will be at the other end of the beach. But if they can figure something out for somewhat of a team friendly deal, then I'm all for it. As a 2nd/3rd pair PP specialist, we haven't had such a nice fit in a long time.

My guess is someone gives him something like $7X7 with NMC. And THAT I want no part of. As good of a fit as he is, he turns 30 in a couple of months.


Yeah, this is me too. I'd love to find a way to make it work between the camps. But I imagine there will be a gulf. I'm not as convinced Bouchard can step in right away and produce at that rate, and I do think the Oilers will lose something if Barrie leaves. But, like every contract decisions, there is a cost/benefit consideration, and it might be too much.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784864 is a reply to message #784862 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:40

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:13

We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.


I mean I agree to an extent - I am betting he and his agent are already making plans for after the UFA bonanza, but many other guys have played with McDrai, and nobody has really come close to what Barrie has done this year. Personally I believe Bouchard could do it (I think I became a bit of a fanboy in just his 13 games). But the problem is, nobody has before. Barrie has worked out about as well as any of us could have hoped for.

If I'm Holland, I have a line in the sand. Barrie and his camp will obviously have one too. Sadly I believe Barrie's line will be at the other end of the beach. But if they can figure something out for somewhat of a team friendly deal, then I'm all for it. As a 2nd/3rd pair PP specialist, we haven't had such a nice fit in a long time.

My guess is someone gives him something like $7X7 with NMC. And THAT I want no part of. As good of a fit as he is, he turns 30 in a couple of months.


I think one thing that probably should be pointed out at as well is that there is some luck involved in Barrie's production. In terms of production per 60 minutes, for primary points (goals and first assists), his production is close to many of his previous years. The real boost to his stat line this year has been getting almost twice as many 2nd assists per 60 as any of his previous years. He's had 5 better seasons in Colorado for primary points/60 than his season with us. Maybe that can be turned into an argument to keep him :) But, I think age and ability to handle good competition needs to be considered for the term/price he'll be asking for.

I know 2nd assists count too, but I think most analysis shows they are a very unreliable way to try to predict performance, especially if your name is Nikita Zaitsev ;).

Kidding aside, I personally can't shake the perspective of Barries season here as a great combination of McDavid going supernova, Barrier being as motivated as many he's ever seen, and also a dash of luck to boost those assist stats. McDavid being awesome is probably sustainable. The motivation factor might not be. The 2nd assist probably can still come at a decent rate as long as he keeps getting ice time with McDavid, but probably falls next year. He's #1 in the NHL among D for 2nd assists/60.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 12:55]

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784866 is a reply to message #784857 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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It is pretty typical of a segment of Oilers fan to feel the need to carve up a player. Things are going well, team is winning, they look to be a good team so it's hard to complain about the team so they go pick apart a player. He's close to scoring 50 pts in 56 games.

The Oilers PP is #1 in the league, almost 2 % better than any other team but apparently it's not good enough.

McD is on a 155 pt in 82 game pace, numbers we haven't seen since the 80's or early 90's but apparently Barrie is dragging down his points.

I don't see the Oilers resigning just because I think he will price himself out and they have a built in guy that should be able to take over his role mostly in Bouchard for cheap. But I don't get why Oilers fans can't just enjoy things and their players. I still see people carving up Nurse and he will probably get norris vottes. confused2

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784867 is a reply to message #784866 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:56

It is pretty typical of a segment of Oilers fan to feel the need to carve up a player. Things are going well, team is winning, they look to be a good team so it's hard to complain about the team so they go pick apart a player. He's close to scoring 50 pts in 56 games.

The Oilers PP is #1 in the league, almost 2 % better than any other team but apparently it's not good enough.

McD is on a 155 pt in 82 game pace, numbers we haven't seen since the 80's or early 90's but apparently Barrie is dragging down his points.

I don't see the Oilers resigning just because I think he will price himself out and they have a built in guy that should be able to take over his role mostly in Bouchard for cheap. But I don't get why Oilers fans can't just enjoy things and their players. I still see people carving up Nurse and he will probably get norris vottes. confused2



Not that bad to look at the summer and next year is it? The GM told us this season is a write off anyways :) Just not a top 5 team, even if we added at the deadline :(

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784871 is a reply to message #784867 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:56

It is pretty typical of a segment of Oilers fan to feel the need to carve up a player. Things are going well, team is winning, they look to be a good team so it's hard to complain about the team so they go pick apart a player. He's close to scoring 50 pts in 56 games.

The Oilers PP is #1 in the league, almost 2 % better than any other team but apparently it's not good enough.

McD is on a 155 pt in 82 game pace, numbers we haven't seen since the 80's or early 90's but apparently Barrie is dragging down his points.

I don't see the Oilers resigning just because I think he will price himself out and they have a built in guy that should be able to take over his role mostly in Bouchard for cheap. But I don't get why Oilers fans can't just enjoy things and their players. I still see people carving up Nurse and he will probably get norris vottes. confused2



Not that bad to look at the summer and next year is it? The GM told us this season is a write off anyways :) Just not a top 5 team, even if we added at the deadline :(


I guess so but I question the guys numbers a little because they can be manipulated.

Barrie is on pace for 70 pts in 82 games. That's not enough? what should he be scoring if he was "good?"

The PP is #1 in the league, almost 2% better than #2. They are 29.5% last year and that was record setting so to think it was going to do that again isn't realistic but at the same time the Oilers played 71 games last year. Maybe if they played the same games it would get up there. But being #1 in the league and by a lot isn't good enough?

McD is doing things we haven't seen a player do in decades. Barrie is helping with that. But the 155 pt pace in 82 games he's on isn't enough?

The guys numbers are implying that Barrie isn't very good. HOW?

There are stats guys out there who will say that Nurse isn't a very good dman. Am I supposed to believe that too?

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 14:06]

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784873 is a reply to message #784856 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784875 is a reply to message #784873 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

Sure. Funny LTIR stuff, trading through another team to have them retain salary. All the stuff that the smart GMs did to improve their rosters at the deadline. TO spanked the Oilers in that midseason series BEFORE their trade deadline. Tampa found ways to improve their team in spite of being right up against the cap(or well over depending on your POV). Maybe the guys on the farm are good enough to provide offensive depth for the playoffs, and maybe a guy like Taylor Hall said he didn't want to come here. But to not upgrade the forward position at all at the deadline was a massive mistake.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784878 is a reply to message #784871 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:03

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:56

It is pretty typical of a segment of Oilers fan to feel the need to carve up a player. Things are going well, team is winning, they look to be a good team so it's hard to complain about the team so they go pick apart a player. He's close to scoring 50 pts in 56 games.

The Oilers PP is #1 in the league, almost 2 % better than any other team but apparently it's not good enough.

McD is on a 155 pt in 82 game pace, numbers we haven't seen since the 80's or early 90's but apparently Barrie is dragging down his points.

I don't see the Oilers resigning just because I think he will price himself out and they have a built in guy that should be able to take over his role mostly in Bouchard for cheap. But I don't get why Oilers fans can't just enjoy things and their players. I still see people carving up Nurse and he will probably get norris vottes. confused2



Not that bad to look at the summer and next year is it? The GM told us this season is a write off anyways :) Just not a top 5 team, even if we added at the deadline :(


I guess so but I question the guys numbers a little because they can be manipulated.

Barrie is on pace for 70 pts in 82 games. That's not enough? what should he be scoring if he was "good?"

The PP is #1 in the league, almost 2% better than #2. They are 29.5% last year and that was record setting so to think it was going to do that again isn't realistic but at the same time the Oilers played 71 games last year. Maybe if they played the same games it would get up there. But being #1 in the league and by a lot isn't good enough?

McD is doing things we haven't seen a player do in decades. Barrie is helping with that. But the 155 pt pace in 82 games he's on isn't enough?

The guys numbers are implying that Barrie isn't very good. HOW?

There are stats guys out there who will say that Nurse isn't a very good dman. Am I supposed to believe that too?


The problem with that set of tweets and data selection is the implication and conclusion: that if you were to take all of Tyson Barrie's minutes this season and divide it up between Adam Larsson and Ethan Bear, not only would McDavid's numbers be just as ridiculous as they are now, they'd actually be even better!

Adam "first pass" Larsson (9 points) and Ethan Bear (8 points) are apparently the key to unlocking more offense out of McDavid and pushing him to 117 points instead of 102 points. Never mind that both of those guys have been with McDavid for years, the data selected seem to implicate that if those two were playing with McDavid instead of Tyson Barrie, McDavid would have hit 100 points weeks ago.

I don't think anyone is going to question that McDavid helps Barrie more than Barrie helps McDavid. We all know the less time Barrie is playing in his own end, the better (and if there is an argument to make against him, that's the one, that his offensive benefit doesn't outweigh his defensively liability, though as those tweets point out, he's outscored opposition this year when on the ice). But it's just such a jump in my mind to conclude that Larsson and Bear playing with McDavid would cause him to be produce at a higher rate offensively this year than he has. It really feels like there is something more to be seen in the data, something missing, or else Larsson's agent should be pointing this exact scenario out in contract negotiations this summer.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784882 is a reply to message #784875 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

Sure. Funny LTIR stuff, trading through another team to have them retain salary. All the stuff that the smart GMs did to improve their rosters at the deadline. TO spanked the Oilers in that midseason series BEFORE their trade deadline. Tampa found ways to improve their team in spite of being right up against the cap(or well over depending on your POV). Maybe the guys on the farm are good enough to provide offensive depth for the playoffs, and maybe a guy like Taylor Hall said he didn't want to come here. But to not upgrade the forward position at all at the deadline was a massive mistake.


Holland actually went pretty far the other way - he told the media he needed to save room under the cap in case Slater Koekkoek came back from injury and needed to be activated before the end of the season (which, by the way, he has not). If you look at Toronto deciding they can live without their starting goalie until the playoffs, so they can add a couple more pieces...well, it's a pretty stark comparison.

I don't really believe that there's two sets of rules with the NHL - just that there's teams that boldly challenge the rules, and others that will very tentatively and meekly ask if they're allowed to. Guess which ones benefit? The LTIR shenanigans have happened for years - Chicago was the first to do it with Kane one year where he was injured for all the remainder of a season and magically healthy in time for Game One of the playoffs. Tampa and Kucherov takes it to a new level, but it's the same thing.

There were options out there. Hall got the Sabres only a 2nd round pick. The Kings got only a 3rd and a 4th for Carter. If Holland was willing to risk ANYTHING, then the Oilers could have improved their top six. I hope we don't end up regretting that.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784883 is a reply to message #784878 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:03

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:56

It is pretty typical of a segment of Oilers fan to feel the need to carve up a player. Things are going well, team is winning, they look to be a good team so it's hard to complain about the team so they go pick apart a player. He's close to scoring 50 pts in 56 games.

The Oilers PP is #1 in the league, almost 2 % better than any other team but apparently it's not good enough.

McD is on a 155 pt in 82 game pace, numbers we haven't seen since the 80's or early 90's but apparently Barrie is dragging down his points.

I don't see the Oilers resigning just because I think he will price himself out and they have a built in guy that should be able to take over his role mostly in Bouchard for cheap. But I don't get why Oilers fans can't just enjoy things and their players. I still see people carving up Nurse and he will probably get norris vottes. confused2



Not that bad to look at the summer and next year is it? The GM told us this season is a write off anyways :) Just not a top 5 team, even if we added at the deadline :(


I guess so but I question the guys numbers a little because they can be manipulated.

Barrie is on pace for 70 pts in 82 games. That's not enough? what should he be scoring if he was "good?"

The PP is #1 in the league, almost 2% better than #2. They are 29.5% last year and that was record setting so to think it was going to do that again isn't realistic but at the same time the Oilers played 71 games last year. Maybe if they played the same games it would get up there. But being #1 in the league and by a lot isn't good enough?

McD is doing things we haven't seen a player do in decades. Barrie is helping with that. But the 155 pt pace in 82 games he's on isn't enough?

The guys numbers are implying that Barrie isn't very good. HOW?

There are stats guys out there who will say that Nurse isn't a very good dman. Am I supposed to believe that too?


The problem with that set of tweets and data selection is the implication and conclusion: that if you were to take all of Tyson Barrie's minutes this season and divide it up between Adam Larsson and Ethan Bear, not only would McDavid's numbers be just as ridiculous as they are now, they'd actually be even better!

Adam "first pass" Larsson (9 points) and Ethan Bear (8 points) are apparently the key to unlocking more offense out of McDavid and pushing him to 117 points instead of 102 points. Never mind that both of those guys have been with McDavid for years, the data selected seem to implicate that if those two were playing with McDavid instead of Tyson Barrie, McDavid would have hit 100 points weeks ago.

I don't think anyone is going to question that McDavid helps Barrie more than Barrie helps McDavid. We all know the less time Barrie is playing in his own end, the better (and if there is an argument to make against him, that's the one, that his offensive benefit doesn't outweigh his defensively liability, though as those tweets point out, he's outscored opposition this year when on the ice). But it's just such a jump in my mind to conclude that Larsson and Bear playing with McDavid would cause him to be produce at a higher rate offensively this year than he has. It really feels like there is something more to be seen in the data, something missing, or else Larsson's agent should be pointing this exact scenario out in contract negotiations this summer.

Does McD not help every single player on the Oilers and would help any player in the league? I would think so.
Like I said, these numbers guys can make any number do whatever they want. Barrie is not a perfect dman, he has his warts but the notion that you can put up any guy you want and they would be better off than with Barrie is such BS. That being said, as much as I like what Barrie has done here, I think the play is to not resign him. You need to create a spot for Bouchard and while I do not think Bouchard next season will put up the same numbers as Barrie because experience counts in the NHL, especially for dmen, I think he can replace most of what Barrie has done this season.

Now if Barrie comes to the Oilers, professes his love for Edmonton and says all he wants is the same deal or slightly less than what he got this season, well then you have to look at him because he's be making you sign him because it's so cheap. Then you find a way to get Bouchard in. If that happens, you send whatever development coach to wherever Bouchard lives in the offseason and have him spend the entire summer working on playing the left side.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784884 is a reply to message #784875 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 13:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

Sure. Funny LTIR stuff, trading through another team to have them retain salary. All the stuff that the smart GMs did to improve their rosters at the deadline. TO spanked the Oilers in that midseason series BEFORE their trade deadline. Tampa found ways to improve their team in spite of being right up against the cap(or well over depending on your POV). Maybe the guys on the farm are good enough to provide offensive depth for the playoffs, and maybe a guy like Taylor Hall said he didn't want to come here. But to not upgrade the forward position at all at the deadline was a massive mistake.


The cap retention/trade maneuvers you're talking about are not what I was referring to, I'm talking about what TB did with Kutcherov's LTIR scam.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784885 is a reply to message #784855 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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Goose wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

@OilersNerdAlert ran some numbers on McDavid and Barrie splits and it doesn't paint a very good picture for re-signing Barrie. There's no way the Oilers should be even considering re-signing Barrie for the numbers he's going to command:

Quote:

I kept them under my hat because it's too close to dinner!

At 5v5 McDavid w Barrie puts up 3.37 p/60. When Barrie steps off the ice, McD's scores at ... 3.95 p/60.

Meanwhile, McDavid's GA/60 rate falls from 3.03 GA/60 to 2.47 GA/60 when Barrie leaves.

AnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchor


https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919258906494976 03?s=20

The powerplay numbers are really the most surprising to me:

Quote:

Meanwhile on the PP, McDavid scores at 9.03 p/60 with Barrie and ... 10.44 p/60 without Barrie.

I mean, I knew it was bad, but come on.


If he's dragging the 1PP down, then what is he even bringing to the table?

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919262202547118 08?s=20

Barrie's numbers are also much worse without McDavid, which should be obvious, but the gaps are significant.

Quote:

He's +4.16 - 3.03 with McDavid.

He's +2.37 - 2.85 without McDavid.

Pointswise, he scores 1.91 p/60 with and 0.79 without.


The top 2 rows are GF/GA per 60.

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919397612757360 66?s=20


I think the analytics community generally is able to predict outcomes better than the rest. But sometimes I think they just rely way too much on a few niche numbers to try to paint a picture of a player.

In particular, I think there is a big blindspot when they evaluate high offense defenseman. I'm just not sure how anybody can confidently assert that Barrie is DRAGGING production down for the number 1 powerplay in the league. I'm not sure how anybody could confidently assert that Barrie is DRAGGING down the best individual scoring season since Lemieux. Get another analytics darling like Ethan Bear, replace Barrie, and is the prediction that these two phenomenon get even better? I just really really doubt it.

To me there is obviously something missing for the analytics community when evaluating players like Tyson Barrie, John Carlson etc. They get absolutely carved up. One day I hope somebody smarter than me figures it out, since significantly outproducing your peers year after year is seemingly not an argument to take into consideration.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 15:57]

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784886 is a reply to message #784866 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:56

It is pretty typical of a segment of Oilers fan to feel the need to carve up a player. Things are going well, team is winning, they look to be a good team so it's hard to complain about the team so they go pick apart a player. He's close to scoring 50 pts in 56 games.

The Oilers PP is #1 in the league, almost 2 % better than any other team but apparently it's not good enough.

McD is on a 155 pt in 82 game pace, numbers we haven't seen since the 80's or early 90's but apparently Barrie is dragging down his points.

I don't see the Oilers resigning just because I think he will price himself out and they have a built in guy that should be able to take over his role mostly in Bouchard for cheap. But I don't get why Oilers fans can't just enjoy things and their players. I still see people carving up Nurse and he will probably get norris vottes. confused2


RD I agree, I'm in the group and you should probably include yourself in the group that can't enjoy things and their players. We all do it from time to time. I had whipping boys for long stretches. Koski is probably the closest thing now, Kahun maybe, Kris Russell.

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