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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706817 is a reply to message #706815 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4809
Registered: January 2016

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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:43

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14

Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.


I am not excusing the GM but how about try some objectivity for a change.

If you are a GM are you expecting your almost vezina nominated goalie to give you well below NHL average goaltending? Maybe you don't expect him to be in the vezina conversation every year but he's 3.12 GA and .902 save percentage. That isn't even CLOSE to NHL average goaltending. Forget the back up, you aren't winning anything if your starter has numbers like that. If the Oilers are getting average NHL goaltending on a nightly basis from their starter, they are right there if not in the playoffs. They are 8 pts out of the wildcard, that's 4 wins. Their goaltending alone has lost them more than 4 games this whole season. So I would challenge you to point out what GM expects his high end starter to completely crap the bed and have back up plans in place to replace him during the season. Most teams expect their starter to play you 60+ games with most of them being high quality starts. If the starter has a bad season, they are screwed.

You can complain about not replacing Sekera. Sorry I don't buy that. With the emergence of Nurse, they would have Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell. While not great, that should be a decent enough top 4 to get you by until Sekera is ready to go. Klefbom is having a terrible season after having a good year. No GM is going to assume one of your best dmen is going to play as badly as he has. Not a chance in hell. Maybe he doesn't continue to trend up but you sure don't expect him to take 2 steps back like he as on many a night. Then you have Benning. Last season he looked like he was already a good 3rd pairing dman who at times could play in your top 4 and be OK. Now I think most expected him to have some bumps this season so maybe that means he is only in your 3rd pair for the whole year but no one expected him to take 2 steps back and for many games look like he isn't NHL ready. There are very few teams out there who have so much depth that they can afford to have one of their best dmen play like crap for most of the year as well as another guy who should be an NHL look like he can't play.

I am sounding like I am saying Chia should get no blame. That isn't the case. He has lots of blame as he has made some bad moves. But I don't care who is the GM here, no GM has a plan in place that fixes everything when your starter is bad for 3/4 of the season to date. No GM has plans in place to swap out your top pairing guy when he can't play any better than the 3rd pairing. If Doughty is playing like crap the whole year, are the Kings where they are? Not a chance in hell.

If you're a competent GM you'd have a back up plan just in case the almost Vezina goaltender took a step back. In Edmonton we got to watch a incompetent GM start his third consecutive season without a serviceable back up.

You may say the Oilers had enough on D to soldier forward without Sekera however many said they weren't good enough. If you look at the season objectively... they weren't good enough. The people who said another defenseman was need were objectively correct.

The truth is Chiarelli failed to get McLellan a good enough team and McLellan has failed to get the performance that not-good-enough team is capable of.

So are you telling me that Steve Yzerman who everyone seems to think is a hell of a GM and I would assume is "competent" in your eyes, has a adequate plan in place to keep Tampa rolling along if Vasilevsky goes down or didn't pan out to be as good as he is? Really? They have Dominque as their current back up because Budaj is injured. So if Vasilevsky isn't very good, you are confident that Peter Budaj and Louis Doninque could carry the Lightning to the playoffs and the cup.

Everyone thinks the Preds GM Poile is a genius given all the moves he's done and how good the Preds are and I assume "competent" in your eyes. If Rinne is crap, you seriously think Saros is capable of giving them as good goaltending as Rinne is?

Budaj was the Kings starter for most the the season last year and played pretty well while Quick missed a massive chunk of the season and the Kings missed the playoffs. The Kings who didn't do a ton in the way of massive roster moves, insert a healthy Quick this season who's played very well and they have been near the top of the West since the start of the year.

Do I think that Chia should have brought in a better back up than gambling on Brossoit? Yes I do. But it's ridiculous in my opinion to expect ANY GM to have another goalie in place capable of replacing your high end starter. Please give me a team who if you take away their starter either from injury or playing not well, they will be as good with their back up. Dream on man.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 January 2018 13:12]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706819 is a reply to message #706817 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
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Give me one team that had that big of drop off between their starter and back up. Also most teams have a thing called depth. Where if a player under performs or gets injured the player next on the depth chart can pick up the slack. This team has no depth. I honestly question if a few of these guys even belong on a NHL roster. I have objectivity for McClellan. He's playing a crap had dealt to him by PC. I don't think Bowman could make this a playoff team with this group.


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706820 is a reply to message #706817 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:43

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14

Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.


I am not excusing the GM but how about try some objectivity for a change.

If you are a GM are you expecting your almost vezina nominated goalie to give you well below NHL average goaltending? Maybe you don't expect him to be in the vezina conversation every year but he's 3.12 GA and .902 save percentage. That isn't even CLOSE to NHL average goaltending. Forget the back up, you aren't winning anything if your starter has numbers like that. If the Oilers are getting average NHL goaltending on a nightly basis from their starter, they are right there if not in the playoffs. They are 8 pts out of the wildcard, that's 4 wins. Their goaltending alone has lost them more than 4 games this whole season. So I would challenge you to point out what GM expects his high end starter to completely crap the bed and have back up plans in place to replace him during the season. Most teams expect their starter to play you 60+ games with most of them being high quality starts. If the starter has a bad season, they are screwed.

You can complain about not replacing Sekera. Sorry I don't buy that. With the emergence of Nurse, they would have Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell. While not great, that should be a decent enough top 4 to get you by until Sekera is ready to go. Klefbom is having a terrible season after having a good year. No GM is going to assume one of your best dmen is going to play as badly as he has. Not a chance in hell. Maybe he doesn't continue to trend up but you sure don't expect him to take 2 steps back like he as on many a night. Then you have Benning. Last season he looked like he was already a good 3rd pairing dman who at times could play in your top 4 and be OK. Now I think most expected him to have some bumps this season so maybe that means he is only in your 3rd pair for the whole year but no one expected him to take 2 steps back and for many games look like he isn't NHL ready. There are very few teams out there who have so much depth that they can afford to have one of their best dmen play like crap for most of the year as well as another guy who should be an NHL look like he can't play.

I am sounding like I am saying Chia should get no blame. That isn't the case. He has lots of blame as he has made some bad moves. But I don't care who is the GM here, no GM has a plan in place that fixes everything when your starter is bad for 3/4 of the season to date. No GM has plans in place to swap out your top pairing guy when he can't play any better than the 3rd pairing. If Doughty is playing like crap the whole year, are the Kings where they are? Not a chance in hell.

If you're a competent GM you'd have a back up plan just in case the almost Vezina goaltender took a step back. In Edmonton we got to watch a incompetent GM start his third consecutive season without a serviceable back up.

You may say the Oilers had enough on D to soldier forward without Sekera however many said they weren't good enough. If you look at the season objectively... they weren't good enough. The people who said another defenseman was need were objectively correct.

The truth is Chiarelli failed to get McLellan a good enough team and McLellan has failed to get the performance that not-good-enough team is capable of.

So are you telling me that Steve Yzerman who everyone seems to think is a hell of a GM and I would assume is "competent" in your eyes, has a adequate plan in place to keep Tampa rolling along if Vasilevsky goes down or didn't pan out to be as good as he is? Really? They have Dominque as their current back up because Budaj is injured. So if Vasilevsky isn't very good, you are confident that Peter Budaj and Louis Doninque could carry the Lightning to the playoffs and the cup.

Everyone thinks the Preds GM Poile is a genius given all the moves he's done and how good the Preds are and I assume "competent" in your eyes. If Rinne is crap, you seriously think Saros is capable of giving them as good goaltending as Rinne is?

Do I think that Chia should have brought in a better back up than gambling on Brossoit? Yes I do. But it's ridiculous in my opinion to expect ANY GM to have another goalie in place capable of replacing your high end starter. Please give me a team who if you take away their starter either from injury or playing not well, they will be as good with their back up. Dream on man.


Yes. Tampa had a disaster of a season last year and finished 1 point out of the playoffs.

Yes. The Preds have a track record of have good goaltending and good management. Until proven otherwise I think it's fair to assume Poile's backup could take over in the short term while Rinne gets his game back. For the record, Saros is .922 in the NHL (small sample size) and has put up good numbers in the A since he was drafted.

No one said the high end goalie needs to be replaced, we have been saying a better back up was necessary. We were right and that is a big reason why this season is a total loss.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706822 is a reply to message #706820 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4809
Registered: January 2016

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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:43

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14

Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.


I am not excusing the GM but how about try some objectivity for a change.

If you are a GM are you expecting your almost vezina nominated goalie to give you well below NHL average goaltending? Maybe you don't expect him to be in the vezina conversation every year but he's 3.12 GA and .902 save percentage. That isn't even CLOSE to NHL average goaltending. Forget the back up, you aren't winning anything if your starter has numbers like that. If the Oilers are getting average NHL goaltending on a nightly basis from their starter, they are right there if not in the playoffs. They are 8 pts out of the wildcard, that's 4 wins. Their goaltending alone has lost them more than 4 games this whole season. So I would challenge you to point out what GM expects his high end starter to completely crap the bed and have back up plans in place to replace him during the season. Most teams expect their starter to play you 60+ games with most of them being high quality starts. If the starter has a bad season, they are screwed.

You can complain about not replacing Sekera. Sorry I don't buy that. With the emergence of Nurse, they would have Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell. While not great, that should be a decent enough top 4 to get you by until Sekera is ready to go. Klefbom is having a terrible season after having a good year. No GM is going to assume one of your best dmen is going to play as badly as he has. Not a chance in hell. Maybe he doesn't continue to trend up but you sure don't expect him to take 2 steps back like he as on many a night. Then you have Benning. Last season he looked like he was already a good 3rd pairing dman who at times could play in your top 4 and be OK. Now I think most expected him to have some bumps this season so maybe that means he is only in your 3rd pair for the whole year but no one expected him to take 2 steps back and for many games look like he isn't NHL ready. There are very few teams out there who have so much depth that they can afford to have one of their best dmen play like crap for most of the year as well as another guy who should be an NHL look like he can't play.

I am sounding like I am saying Chia should get no blame. That isn't the case. He has lots of blame as he has made some bad moves. But I don't care who is the GM here, no GM has a plan in place that fixes everything when your starter is bad for 3/4 of the season to date. No GM has plans in place to swap out your top pairing guy when he can't play any better than the 3rd pairing. If Doughty is playing like crap the whole year, are the Kings where they are? Not a chance in hell.

If you're a competent GM you'd have a back up plan just in case the almost Vezina goaltender took a step back. In Edmonton we got to watch a incompetent GM start his third consecutive season without a serviceable back up.

You may say the Oilers had enough on D to soldier forward without Sekera however many said they weren't good enough. If you look at the season objectively... they weren't good enough. The people who said another defenseman was need were objectively correct.

The truth is Chiarelli failed to get McLellan a good enough team and McLellan has failed to get the performance that not-good-enough team is capable of.

So are you telling me that Steve Yzerman who everyone seems to think is a hell of a GM and I would assume is "competent" in your eyes, has a adequate plan in place to keep Tampa rolling along if Vasilevsky goes down or didn't pan out to be as good as he is? Really? They have Dominque as their current back up because Budaj is injured. So if Vasilevsky isn't very good, you are confident that Peter Budaj and Louis Doninque could carry the Lightning to the playoffs and the cup.

Everyone thinks the Preds GM Poile is a genius given all the moves he's done and how good the Preds are and I assume "competent" in your eyes. If Rinne is crap, you seriously think Saros is capable of giving them as good goaltending as Rinne is?

Do I think that Chia should have brought in a better back up than gambling on Brossoit? Yes I do. But it's ridiculous in my opinion to expect ANY GM to have another goalie in place capable of replacing your high end starter. Please give me a team who if you take away their starter either from injury or playing not well, they will be as good with their back up. Dream on man.


Yes. Tampa had a disaster of a season last year and finished 1 point out of the playoffs.

Yes. The Preds have a track record of have good goaltending and good management. Until proven otherwise I think it's fair to assume Poile's backup could take over in the short term while Rinne gets his game back. For the record, Saros is .922 in the NHL (small sample size) and has put up good numbers in the A since he was drafted.

No one said the high end goalie needs to be replaced, we have been saying a better back up was necessary. We were right and that is a big reason why this season is a total loss.

Well if you think the season was lost because of the back up, you are flat out wrong. How many games does a really good back up play in a season? Maybe 15-20 tops? So we are talking what 5 games in 20? So in the 15 games out of every 20 your starter is giving you crap play, doesn't matter how good your back up is.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706824 is a reply to message #706822 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14297
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:39

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:43

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14

Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.


I am not excusing the GM but how about try some objectivity for a change.

If you are a GM are you expecting your almost vezina nominated goalie to give you well below NHL average goaltending? Maybe you don't expect him to be in the vezina conversation every year but he's 3.12 GA and .902 save percentage. That isn't even CLOSE to NHL average goaltending. Forget the back up, you aren't winning anything if your starter has numbers like that. If the Oilers are getting average NHL goaltending on a nightly basis from their starter, they are right there if not in the playoffs. They are 8 pts out of the wildcard, that's 4 wins. Their goaltending alone has lost them more than 4 games this whole season. So I would challenge you to point out what GM expects his high end starter to completely crap the bed and have back up plans in place to replace him during the season. Most teams expect their starter to play you 60+ games with most of them being high quality starts. If the starter has a bad season, they are screwed.

You can complain about not replacing Sekera. Sorry I don't buy that. With the emergence of Nurse, they would have Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell. While not great, that should be a decent enough top 4 to get you by until Sekera is ready to go. Klefbom is having a terrible season after having a good year. No GM is going to assume one of your best dmen is going to play as badly as he has. Not a chance in hell. Maybe he doesn't continue to trend up but you sure don't expect him to take 2 steps back like he as on many a night. Then you have Benning. Last season he looked like he was already a good 3rd pairing dman who at times could play in your top 4 and be OK. Now I think most expected him to have some bumps this season so maybe that means he is only in your 3rd pair for the whole year but no one expected him to take 2 steps back and for many games look like he isn't NHL ready. There are very few teams out there who have so much depth that they can afford to have one of their best dmen play like crap for most of the year as well as another guy who should be an NHL look like he can't play.

I am sounding like I am saying Chia should get no blame. That isn't the case. He has lots of blame as he has made some bad moves. But I don't care who is the GM here, no GM has a plan in place that fixes everything when your starter is bad for 3/4 of the season to date. No GM has plans in place to swap out your top pairing guy when he can't play any better than the 3rd pairing. If Doughty is playing like crap the whole year, are the Kings where they are? Not a chance in hell.

If you're a competent GM you'd have a back up plan just in case the almost Vezina goaltender took a step back. In Edmonton we got to watch a incompetent GM start his third consecutive season without a serviceable back up.

You may say the Oilers had enough on D to soldier forward without Sekera however many said they weren't good enough. If you look at the season objectively... they weren't good enough. The people who said another defenseman was need were objectively correct.

The truth is Chiarelli failed to get McLellan a good enough team and McLellan has failed to get the performance that not-good-enough team is capable of.

So are you telling me that Steve Yzerman who everyone seems to think is a hell of a GM and I would assume is "competent" in your eyes, has a adequate plan in place to keep Tampa rolling along if Vasilevsky goes down or didn't pan out to be as good as he is? Really? They have Dominque as their current back up because Budaj is injured. So if Vasilevsky isn't very good, you are confident that Peter Budaj and Louis Doninque could carry the Lightning to the playoffs and the cup.

Everyone thinks the Preds GM Poile is a genius given all the moves he's done and how good the Preds are and I assume "competent" in your eyes. If Rinne is crap, you seriously think Saros is capable of giving them as good goaltending as Rinne is?

Do I think that Chia should have brought in a better back up than gambling on Brossoit? Yes I do. But it's ridiculous in my opinion to expect ANY GM to have another goalie in place capable of replacing your high end starter. Please give me a team who if you take away their starter either from injury or playing not well, they will be as good with their back up. Dream on man.


Yes. Tampa had a disaster of a season last year and finished 1 point out of the playoffs.

Yes. The Preds have a track record of have good goaltending and good management. Until proven otherwise I think it's fair to assume Poile's backup could take over in the short term while Rinne gets his game back. For the record, Saros is .922 in the NHL (small sample size) and has put up good numbers in the A since he was drafted.

No one said the high end goalie needs to be replaced, we have been saying a better back up was necessary. We were right and that is a big reason why this season is a total loss.

Well if you think the season was lost because of the back up, you are flat out wrong. How many games does a really good back up play in a season? Maybe 15-20 tops? So we are talking what 5 games in 20? So in the 15 games out of every 20 your starter is giving you crap play, doesn't matter how good your back up is.


How many games did we play Talbot straight when he was clearly struggling because we were too scared to play someone who struggles no matter how well he plays?

It might not be the only reason, but it was certainly a big one.

LB got a chance to show he can give some relief against Carolina in October and put up a .762 sav%. He didn't play again for a month while Talbot kept struggling because we have a backup that wasn't gonna give us better than Talbot's worst.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 January 2018 13:46]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706825 is a reply to message #706822 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
Messages: 1128
Registered: January 2009
Location: Medicine Hat,AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:39

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 13:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:43

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14

Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.


I am not excusing the GM but how about try some objectivity for a change.

If you are a GM are you expecting your almost vezina nominated goalie to give you well below NHL average goaltending? Maybe you don't expect him to be in the vezina conversation every year but he's 3.12 GA and .902 save percentage. That isn't even CLOSE to NHL average goaltending. Forget the back up, you aren't winning anything if your starter has numbers like that. If the Oilers are getting average NHL goaltending on a nightly basis from their starter, they are right there if not in the playoffs. They are 8 pts out of the wildcard, that's 4 wins. Their goaltending alone has lost them more than 4 games this whole season. So I would challenge you to point out what GM expects his high end starter to completely crap the bed and have back up plans in place to replace him during the season. Most teams expect their starter to play you 60+ games with most of them being high quality starts. If the starter has a bad season, they are screwed.

You can complain about not replacing Sekera. Sorry I don't buy that. With the emergence of Nurse, they would have Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell. While not great, that should be a decent enough top 4 to get you by until Sekera is ready to go. Klefbom is having a terrible season after having a good year. No GM is going to assume one of your best dmen is going to play as badly as he has. Not a chance in hell. Maybe he doesn't continue to trend up but you sure don't expect him to take 2 steps back like he as on many a night. Then you have Benning. Last season he looked like he was already a good 3rd pairing dman who at times could play in your top 4 and be OK. Now I think most expected him to have some bumps this season so maybe that means he is only in your 3rd pair for the whole year but no one expected him to take 2 steps back and for many games look like he isn't NHL ready. There are very few teams out there who have so much depth that they can afford to have one of their best dmen play like crap for most of the year as well as another guy who should be an NHL look like he can't play.

I am sounding like I am saying Chia should get no blame. That isn't the case. He has lots of blame as he has made some bad moves. But I don't care who is the GM here, no GM has a plan in place that fixes everything when your starter is bad for 3/4 of the season to date. No GM has plans in place to swap out your top pairing guy when he can't play any better than the 3rd pairing. If Doughty is playing like crap the whole year, are the Kings where they are? Not a chance in hell.

If you're a competent GM you'd have a back up plan just in case the almost Vezina goaltender took a step back. In Edmonton we got to watch a incompetent GM start his third consecutive season without a serviceable back up.

You may say the Oilers had enough on D to soldier forward without Sekera however many said they weren't good enough. If you look at the season objectively... they weren't good enough. The people who said another defenseman was need were objectively correct.

The truth is Chiarelli failed to get McLellan a good enough team and McLellan has failed to get the performance that not-good-enough team is capable of.

So are you telling me that Steve Yzerman who everyone seems to think is a hell of a GM and I would assume is "competent" in your eyes, has a adequate plan in place to keep Tampa rolling along if Vasilevsky goes down or didn't pan out to be as good as he is? Really? They have Dominque as their current back up because Budaj is injured. So if Vasilevsky isn't very good, you are confident that Peter Budaj and Louis Doninque could carry the Lightning to the playoffs and the cup.

Everyone thinks the Preds GM Poile is a genius given all the moves he's done and how good the Preds are and I assume "competent" in your eyes. If Rinne is crap, you seriously think Saros is capable of giving them as good goaltending as Rinne is?

Do I think that Chia should have brought in a better back up than gambling on Brossoit? Yes I do. But it's ridiculous in my opinion to expect ANY GM to have another goalie in place capable of replacing your high end starter. Please give me a team who if you take away their starter either from injury or playing not well, they will be as good with their back up. Dream on man.


Yes. Tampa had a disaster of a season last year and finished 1 point out of the playoffs.

Yes. The Preds have a track record of have good goaltending and good management. Until proven otherwise I think it's fair to assume Poile's backup could take over in the short term while Rinne gets his game back. For the record, Saros is .922 in the NHL (small sample size) and has put up good numbers in the A since he was drafted.

No one said the high end goalie needs to be replaced, we have been saying a better back up was necessary. We were right and that is a big reason why this season is a total loss.

Well if you think the season was lost because of the back up, you are flat out wrong. How many games does a really good back up play in a season? Maybe 15-20 tops? So we are talking what 5 games in 20? So in the 15 games out of every 20 your starter is giving you crap play, doesn't matter how good your back up is.

Name one team that can afford to lose 20 games. By your logic only the starter matters. A great year for a starter is 40-20. You flush those 20 games your record is 40-40-2. You miss the playoffs and you fail.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706827 is a reply to message #706790 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
St. Dumas  is currently offline St. Dumas
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Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:38

... and bring in a GM that is a smart up and comer, I like the idea of the assistant GM of Nashville.


*sigh*



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706832 is a reply to message #706827 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
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https://www.tsn.ca/talent/oilers-hampered-by-weakness-on-the -wing-1.963104

Nice little break down on our situation. I can't disagree with any of it.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706835 is a reply to message #706832 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 14:33

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/oilers-hampered-by-weakness-on-the -wing-1.963104

Nice little break down on our situation. I can't disagree with any of it.


I object a bit, because you know Yost is framing this all to go with his constant ripping on Chia for trading Hall.

Lucic is up 5v5 compared to last year. His goal drop is because our PP is such a useless piece of crap. McLellan was also clearly a dope for demoting Pulju to start the year, and still for not putting him on the top PP. Pulju could be a 15+ goal player right now, but we just keep trotting out Letestu that can't get open for a 1-timer to save his life.

Aside from that, yeah, our wings blow. Maroon's contract talks going sour might also be playing a part. He's checking out, and we are punishing him keeping him off McDavid's line as much as we can, and that actually takes away from Lucic because he clearly sucks with McDavid and was playing much better with Nuge dating all the way back to last year.

What a mess this team is, almost everywhere you look.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 January 2018 14:58]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706836 is a reply to message #706832 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 15:33

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/oilers-hampered-by-weakness-on-the -wing-1.963104

Nice little break down on our situation. I can't disagree with any of it.


Fun, we have the lowest scoring wingers in the league. I wonder who saw that coming

Again, who among us would have asked this in the offseason;
From the article "Which, again, raises the question: Did the Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle trades really ever make sense?"

(/sarcasm)



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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 October 2019 08:54

Your winner and nnnneeeeeeeewwwwwwwww champion...

PlusOne (Bos)


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706838 is a reply to message #706836 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
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Not only the lowest scoring wingers in the league but almost 20% off the league average.


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706844 is a reply to message #706787 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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Chia gets fired. McLellan is given the GM position, Woodcroft moves to head coach and MacT joins the bench as 'mentor'


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706856 is a reply to message #706835 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 14:54

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 14:33

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/oilers-hampered-by-weakness-on-the -wing-1.963104

Nice little break down on our situation. I can't disagree with any of it.


I object a bit, because you know Yost is framing this all to go with his constant ripping on Chia for trading Hall.

Lucic is up 5v5 compared to last year. His goal drop is because our PP is such a useless piece of crap. McLellan was also clearly a dope for demoting Pulju to start the year, and still for not putting him on the top PP. Pulju could be a 15+ goal player right now, but we just keep trotting out Letestu that can't get open for a 1-timer to save his life.

Aside from that, yeah, our wings blow. Maroon's contract talks going sour might also be playing a part. He's checking out, and we are punishing him keeping him off McDavid's line as much as we can, and that actually takes away from Lucic because he clearly sucks with McDavid and was playing much better with Nuge dating all the way back to last year.

What a mess this team is, almost everywhere you look.


The entire blogosphere can’t get over that. He was their favourite son.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706857 is a reply to message #706844 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 16:06

Chia gets fired. McLellan is given the GM position, Woodcroft moves to head coach and MacT joins the bench as 'mentor'


That is the stuff of nightmares. Incompetent coach gets promoted. An even more incompetent coach takes his place under the watchful eye of man who has help orchestrate over a decade of abysmal failure...



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706858 is a reply to message #706787 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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Goose wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:12

This tweet by Rishaug this morning is amazing to me.

Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug: The funny thing about all this Chiarelli backing McLellan stuff is, nobody as far as I know was seriously calling for him to be fired. None of the main beat reporters or analysts, certainly not me.. I don’t think he was in real jeopardy at this point.


He actually believes that he's basically the assistant GM of the team and that Chiarelli is forming opinions about what he should do with the team based on Rishaug's takes. https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/950476762428858368


Rishaug is a douche who has descended in with he rest of the washed up, irrelevant, semi-mouth piece MSM personalities who don’t have anything to say worth hearing, pretty much ever anymore. The “journalists”, reporters, pundits and media personalities in this town are such a joke.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706859 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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To me the main problem has been coaching, mainly because of special teams, which essentially will have been what torpedoed the season for them. The team has enough talent and there is enough there to at least be middle of the pack, both in terms of PK/PP and more generally, in the overall standings.

I also get the sense guys just didn’t come in ready for the season, period. I don’t know if it’s a combination of expectations along with being underprepared and believing/buying into their own off season hype or what. But it’s just a disaster. Mentally they have been incredibly weak thus far.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 January 2018 18:46]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706919 is a reply to message #706859 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 07:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 3756
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3 Cups

Mark Letestu being #2 in total PP TOI on a team with Draisaitl, Lucic, Nugent-Hopkins, and Puljujarvi is insane.

McDavid 133 minutes
Letestu 124
Klefbom 117
Draisaitl 111
Lucic 106
RNH 83
Maroon 77
Stome 73
Benning 53
Cammalleri 29
Caggiula 20
Puljujarvi 19:05!!!



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706921 is a reply to message #706919 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Wed, 10 January 2018 07:31

Mark Letestu being #2 in total PP TOI on a team with Draisaitl, Lucic, Nugent-Hopkins, and Puljujarvi is insane.

McDavid 133 minutes
Letestu 124
Klefbom 117
Draisaitl 111
Lucic 106
RNH 83
Maroon 77
Stome 73
Benning 53
Cammalleri 29
Caggiula 20
Puljujarvi 19:05!!!


Even with the season over, we have Letestu out there on the 1st unit, and we get to see Letestu flub a shot on the 6 on 5. The stubbornness of this coaching staff know no bounds.

The English thing is a total joke as a reason to keep him off the PP, but McLellan also gave the impression it was to shelter him from failure too. We really do have Eakins 2.0 behind the bench right now in so many ways.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706926 is a reply to message #706921 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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What I don't get is why the hell they don't try Puljujarvi in Letestu's spot at this point. I don't give a crap what Letestu did last year, this year your PP SUCKS and its not WORKING. So try something different!! If you don't want to make changes for this seasons benefit, then do it for next year. The season is basically lost but by putting Puljujarvi on the #1 PP he can learn and gain confidence and chemistry with the #1 unit so maybe next year, he hits the ground running rather than slowly getting into it.


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706945 is a reply to message #706844 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 16:06

Chia gets fired. McLellan is given the GM position, Woodcroft moves to head coach and MacT joins the bench as 'mentor'

Stop. I can only get so erect.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706954 is a reply to message #706827 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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St. Dumas wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 14:05

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:38

... and bring in a GM that is a smart up and comer, I like the idea of the assistant GM of Nashville.


*sigh* (I really LOVE that idea, you're such a smart and astute guy Rocksteady. Word around this forum is that you're really a swell guy but this thought.. this thought is so freaking brilliant that all I can do is sigh, you're an A #1 good guy) icon_thumbsup icon_thumbsup icon_thumbsup icon_smile



*SIGH* are we breathing now for posting or can you add some context? :) Just bugging however, if you read my response, I didn't think Chia should be fired right now. Obviously you took exception to hiring an up and comer (while editing my quote)



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706955 is a reply to message #706919 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Location: Burnaby, BC

5 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 10 January 2018 06:31

Mark Letestu being #2 in total PP TOI on a team with Draisaitl, Lucic, Nugent-Hopkins, and Puljujarvi is insane.

McDavid 133 minutes
Letestu 124
Klefbom 117
Draisaitl 111
Lucic 106
RNH 83
Maroon 77
Stome 73
Benning 53
Cammalleri 29
Caggiula 20
Puljujarvi 19:05!!!


says it all.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks, K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner, Petrovic = Nathan Legare

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706960 is a reply to message #706954 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 10 January 2018 13:55

St. Dumas wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 14:05

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:38

... and bring in a GM that is a smart up and comer, I like the idea of the assistant GM of Nashville.


*sigh* (I really LOVE that idea, you're such a smart and astute guy Rocksteady. Word around this forum is that you're really a swell guy but this thought.. this thought is so freaking brilliant that all I can do is sigh, you're an A #1 good guy) icon_thumbsup icon_thumbsup icon_thumbsup icon_smile



*SIGH* are we breathing now for posting or can you add some context? :) Just bugging however, if you read my response, I didn't think Chia should be fired right now. Obviously you took exception to hiring an up and comer (while editing my quote)


I assumed that St. Dumas WAS Rocksteady, creating a second account to pat himself on the back for being such a great guy...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706965 is a reply to message #706960 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Adam wrote on Wed, 10 January 2018 15:37

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 10 January 2018 13:55

St. Dumas wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 14:05

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:38

... and bring in a GM that is a smart up and comer, I like the idea of the assistant GM of Nashville.


*sigh* (I really LOVE that idea, you're such a smart and astute guy Rocksteady. Word around this forum is that you're really a swell guy but this thought.. this thought is so freaking brilliant that all I can do is sigh, you're an A #1 good guy) icon_thumbsup icon_thumbsup icon_thumbsup icon_smile



*SIGH* are we breathing now for posting or can you add some context? :) Just bugging however, if you read my response, I didn't think Chia should be fired right now. Obviously you took exception to hiring an up and comer (while editing my quote)


I assumed that St. Dumas WAS Rocksteady, creating a second account to pat himself on the back for being such a great guy...


Hmmm, and thereby skirting the "don't quote your own post" nonsense...I'm worried a light bulb just went off in your head, Adam. hahaha



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706967 is a reply to message #706945 ]
Wed, 10 January 2018 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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JPro wrote on Wed, 10 January 2018 12:12

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 16:06

Chia gets fired. McLellan is given the GM position, Woodcroft moves to head coach and MacT joins the bench as 'mentor'

Stop. I can only get so erect.

Stop. I can only drink so much.



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707008 is a reply to message #706955 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707011 is a reply to message #707008 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13

According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.


That Slepyshev is available should have been obvious to 30 other NHL GMs. That no one has called on him should be painfully obvious what his interest is around the league right now. Moving Slepyshev doesn't bring in anything that will help the Oilers, and really which AHL player are you planning on replacing him with where you don't get a little worse?

I'm still skeptical about McLellan's relationship with Russian players (see pregame thread against Nashville), but where we are right now, I'd be shocked is Slepyshev doesn't sign in the KHL this off-season. Which is probably why the Oilers want to trade him and there is little market for him.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707014 is a reply to message #707011 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13

According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.


That Slepyshev is available should have been obvious to 30 other NHL GMs. That no one has called on him should be painfully obvious what his interest is around the league right now. Moving Slepyshev doesn't bring in anything that will help the Oilers, and really which AHL player are you planning on replacing him with where you don't get a little worse?

I'm still skeptical about McLellan's relationship with Russian players (see pregame thread against Nashville), but where we are right now, I'd be shocked is Slepyshev doesn't sign in the KHL this off-season. Which is probably why the Oilers want to trade him and there is little market for him.


I also think that sending a "this player is available email" is an incredibly poor way of marketing your player. Figure out what you want and go try to get it.

What does a 30-team email blast accomplish? It says to the league that you WANT to move the player and are giving up on him. There's going to be questions as to why (conditioning? attitude? drinking problem? weirdo who doesn't fit in?) and no one is going to come in guns a-blazing to pick up the player. If we move him now, you can expect a pretty low return.

Third round pick of the Oilers, developed by the team, only 23 years old, 70 games in to his NHL career (and a real NHL player, even though he'll never be the second-liner that some around these parts once imagined - despite lack of stats to suggest he'd ever get there) and what do you bet the Oilers get less than a third rounder in the future for him?

I know that we've heard about GMs doing similar things for years - back to when they were sending faxes and handwritten letters about players up for trade - but that doesn't mean it is the best way to do things. Chiarelli's just reduced the value of an already declining asset...and for no good reason.

He's cheap, he's an RFA who will only get another cheap deal. He's home-grown, he's still young. He may yet develop further - still a bottom-sixer, but he's never been anything but that - and it's not like we need the roster spot or salary cap room. No good reason for this letter, and once again, the Oilers management does the wrong thing.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707016 is a reply to message #707011 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4809
Registered: January 2016

4 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13

According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.


That Slepyshev is available should have been obvious to 30 other NHL GMs. That no one has called on him should be painfully obvious what his interest is around the league right now. Moving Slepyshev doesn't bring in anything that will help the Oilers, and really which AHL player are you planning on replacing him with where you don't get a little worse?

I'm still skeptical about McLellan's relationship with Russian players (see pregame thread against Nashville), but where we are right now, I'd be shocked is Slepyshev doesn't sign in the KHL this off-season. Which is probably why the Oilers want to trade him and there is little market for him.


So it's McLellan's fault?

I saw a player who was given a tremendous opportunity last year and especially in the playoffs. So much so that I believe the organization made bets on him to be a regular contributor. He gets hurt in the offseason, misses some time. Then when he has come back and played, he has done exactly what? I'm asking because unless I missed something, I have watched a player who I personally had high hopes for do nothing. This team is DYING for a right winger to step up and when he has played, he's invisible. So what exactly are you seeing that is McLellan's fault because I am seeing a player who has pissed an opportunity away but doing nothing when he plays.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707017 is a reply to message #707014 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Did we try Lucic-Drai-Slep even one game this year? THe line that Chia imagined as his 2nd line this year.

Corsica says no, not even by accident with lines in progress changing.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707018 is a reply to message #706926 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster  is currently offline HamBlaster
Messages: 1118
Registered: June 2007

1 Cup

Because they are idiots.


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707019 is a reply to message #707017 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster  is currently offline HamBlaster
Messages: 1118
Registered: June 2007

1 Cup

Because they are idiots.


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707023 is a reply to message #707016 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13

According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.


That Slepyshev is available should have been obvious to 30 other NHL GMs. That no one has called on him should be painfully obvious what his interest is around the league right now. Moving Slepyshev doesn't bring in anything that will help the Oilers, and really which AHL player are you planning on replacing him with where you don't get a little worse?

I'm still skeptical about McLellan's relationship with Russian players (see pregame thread against Nashville), but where we are right now, I'd be shocked is Slepyshev doesn't sign in the KHL this off-season. Which is probably why the Oilers want to trade him and there is little market for him.


So it's McLellan's fault?

I saw a player who was given a tremendous opportunity last year and especially in the playoffs. So much so that I believe the organization made bets on him to be a regular contributor. He gets hurt in the offseason, misses some time. Then when he has come back and played, he has done exactly what? I'm asking because unless I missed something, I have watched a player who I personally had high hopes for do nothing. This team is DYING for a right winger to step up and when he has played, he's invisible. So what exactly are you seeing that is McLellan's fault because I am seeing a player who has pissed an opportunity away but doing nothing when he plays.


No, I wouldn't say that. Slepyshev is a functional, bottom line NHL player, and that's really all he's ever been, and I'd be surprised if he became much more than that. I was never sold on him being a solution in the Top-6 or Top-9, even if Chiarelli seemed to have penciled him in there to start the year.

Some numbers of comparison:

Zack Kassian, 357 games, 0.31 points per game
Jujhar Khaira, 56 games, 0.31 points per game
Drake Caggiula, 92 games, 0.29 points per game
Anton Slepyshev, 70 games, 0.2 points per game
Iiro Pakarinen, 112 games, 0.19 points per game
Anton Lander, 215 games, 0.16 points per game (for comparison's sake)

It's a crass comparison, a small sample size for some, and point production doesn't tell the whole story. Someone like Kassian is probably overpaid for his point production on the bottom line, while it is clear that Lander's NHL production wasn't worthy of the NHL.

What it does indicate to me is that there isn't a lot to choose from between Caggiula, Slepyshev, and Khaira. Of the three Khaira is showing the most promise, and the Oilers would be wise to remember that when negotiating with Caggiula this summer. There's a bit of a logjam in the bottom of the roster, and none of them have really done a lot to differentiate or rise above the others. Slepyshev especially.

But what is also shows is how close these three are together. Why does Caggiula get gifted icetime regularly with McDavid, while Slepyshev can't get out of the pressbox? In many ways, they are remarkably similar players, yet one is gifted unwarranted icetime, while the other sits weeks without playing.

Where I stand is that Slepyshev is an NHLer, a bottom line NHLer, and losing him *shouldn't* hurt the club, though I don't see a lot of better alternatives for the roster in Bakersfield currently. Slepyshev isn't a big loss, in and of himself, but I'm not sure he's had the chances some of his peers have, and I'm not sure we don't lose a little bit of depth when he's gone and we have someone like Joey LaLeggia or Brad Malone in his place.

Regarding McLellan, he's been a head coach in the NHL for ten years, and had a total of six Russian players play for him:

Alexei Semenov (47 games, first year in SJ)
Evgeni Nabokov (133 games, first two years in SJ)
Danill Tarasov (5 games, last year in SJ)
Nikita Nikitin (11 games, first year in EDM)
Nail Yakupov (60 games, first year in EDM)
Anton Slepyshev (70 games, first three years in EDM)

Slepyshev actually has played more for McLellan than any Russian other than Nabokov. Like I mentioned in the other thread, it isn't so much him letting these players go (most are borderline NHLers), it's that the only one he has ever brought in was Slepyshev (and I guess Tarasov). To me, that seems odd. Is that a normal amount for a coach with a decade of head coaching experience? I don't want to make too big a deal of it (and I probably am). I certainly am not saying with certainty anything about McLellan, because how could I? I don't know him. But when I see Caggiula get a push over Slepyshev when so little separates them, when I see Purcell getting the push over Yakupov, when I see how few Russian players McLellan has brought into the NHL or how no Russian NHL veteran player has ever joined a McLellan coached team, when I see how he rarely has any Russians on his team after his first year or two... I just wish there was an example to extinguish my doubts.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 January 2018 15:55]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707024 is a reply to message #707016 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13

According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.


That Slepyshev is available should have been obvious to 30 other NHL GMs. That no one has called on him should be painfully obvious what his interest is around the league right now. Moving Slepyshev doesn't bring in anything that will help the Oilers, and really which AHL player are you planning on replacing him with where you don't get a little worse?

I'm still skeptical about McLellan's relationship with Russian players (see pregame thread against Nashville), but where we are right now, I'd be shocked is Slepyshev doesn't sign in the KHL this off-season. Which is probably why the Oilers want to trade him and there is little market for him.


So it's McLellan's fault?

I saw a player who was given a tremendous opportunity last year and especially in the playoffs. So much so that I believe the organization made bets on him to be a regular contributor. He gets hurt in the offseason, misses some time. Then when he has come back and played, he has done exactly what? I'm asking because unless I missed something, I have watched a player who I personally had high hopes for do nothing. This team is DYING for a right winger to step up and when he has played, he's invisible. So what exactly are you seeing that is McLellan's fault because I am seeing a player who has pissed an opportunity away but doing nothing when he plays.


Well a couple issues:

1) Is the production the issue? or is it the expectations that were the issue. Slepyshev has a heavy shot, and so we've heard lots from the Oilers and the Oilers media about what he could be, but he never had the production at any level to suggest that he would be more than a bottom-six player.

He scored 10 points in 41 games last year (0.24 points per game), and 3 points in 12 games in the playoffs (0.25 points per game).

2) This year he was rushed back early from injury twice - we know this because he was injured again very quickly after returning to the lineup with the same or similar ailment. Twice. He has 3 points in 18 games (0.17 points per game). He's not far off his production despite A) nagging injuries that have kept him out of a significant portion of the season, B) little opportunity to play with top players C) no powerplay time and D) limited ice-time. Slepyshev has not played more than 14:28 in any game this year (his only game over 14 minutes). He's had three games under 10 minutes and lots in the 10-12 minute range.

He hasn't been much different this year than he was last year, despite all of that, and especially despite the injuries, so I don't think it makes a lot of sense to give up on the player.

For the record, I don't blame the coach much on this one. He hasn't played the line from the playoffs together, but people forget that Slepyshev didn't score any more points in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. He just had a couple of big timely goals that were memorable. Same with Caggiula for that matter...

Every team needs bottom-six guys, so it's not

[Updated on: Thu, 11 January 2018 16:17]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707026 is a reply to message #707023 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 15:52


Slepyshev actually has played more for McLellan than any Russian other than Nabokov. Like I mentioned in the other thread, it isn't so much him letting these players go (most are borderline NHLers), it's that the only one he has ever brought in was Slepyshev (and I guess Tarasov). To me, that seems odd. Is that a normal amount for a coach with a decade of head coaching experience? I don't want to make too big a deal of it (and I probably am). I certainly am not saying with certainty anything about McLellan, because how could I? I don't know him. But when I see Caggiula get a push over Slepyshev when so little separates them, when I see Purcell getting the push over Yakupov, when I see how few Russian players McLellan has brought into the NHL or how no Russian NHL veteran player has ever joined a McLellan coached team, when I see how he rarely has any Russians on his team after his first year or two... I just wish there was an example to extinguish my doubts.


If you wanted more ammunition on this, the whole "Puljujarvi doesn't speak good enough English to be on the PP" suggests some level of bias. I know that Pavel Bure did not come over perfectly fluent, and yet somehow the Canucks saw fit to put him on the ice with the man advantage. I had a Gretzky video growing up where one of our favourite lines was "The Canadian and the Finn could barely understand each other, on the ice, they spoke pure offence." Somehow Kurri got PP time too. (I've added the video below, because you should really watch it when you have the time! Gretzky to Kurri section starts at 14:45).

Has there been any Europeans who have got a strong push under McLellan - most of his stars in San Jose were Canadian and American. Wasn't Hertl in and out of the doghouse? I guess the two Swedes on defence here, but as Spector always likes to point out, they speak almost flawless English...




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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707027 is a reply to message #707026 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 16:17

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 15:52


Slepyshev actually has played more for McLellan than any Russian other than Nabokov. Like I mentioned in the other thread, it isn't so much him letting these players go (most are borderline NHLers), it's that the only one he has ever brought in was Slepyshev (and I guess Tarasov). To me, that seems odd. Is that a normal amount for a coach with a decade of head coaching experience? I don't want to make too big a deal of it (and I probably am). I certainly am not saying with certainty anything about McLellan, because how could I? I don't know him. But when I see Caggiula get a push over Slepyshev when so little separates them, when I see Purcell getting the push over Yakupov, when I see how few Russian players McLellan has brought into the NHL or how no Russian NHL veteran player has ever joined a McLellan coached team, when I see how he rarely has any Russians on his team after his first year or two... I just wish there was an example to extinguish my doubts.


If you wanted more ammunition on this, the whole "Puljujarvi doesn't speak good enough English to be on the PP" suggests some level of bias. I know that Pavel Bure did not come over perfectly fluent, and yet somehow the Canucks saw fit to put him on the ice with the man advantage. I had a Gretzky video growing up where one of our favourite lines was "The Canadian and the Finn could barely understand each other, on the ice, they spoke pure offence." Somehow Kurri got PP time too. (I've added the video below, because you should really watch it when you have the time! Gretzky to Kurri section starts at 14:45).

Has there been any Europeans who have got a strong push under McLellan - most of his stars in San Jose were Canadian and American. Wasn't Hertl in and out of the doghouse? I guess the two Swedes on defence here, but as Spector always likes to point out, they speak almost flawless English...




The other good recent example is Panarin. Spoke no english, comes to Chicago from the KHL, 24 powerplay points his first year. He actually got worse on the PP the better his english got, 17 PP points in year 2 :)

But no, Pulju can't achieve the brain surgery level genius that we execute on our PP without better english.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707029 is a reply to message #707026 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 16:17

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 15:52


Slepyshev actually has played more for McLellan than any Russian other than Nabokov. Like I mentioned in the other thread, it isn't so much him letting these players go (most are borderline NHLers), it's that the only one he has ever brought in was Slepyshev (and I guess Tarasov). To me, that seems odd. Is that a normal amount for a coach with a decade of head coaching experience? I don't want to make too big a deal of it (and I probably am). I certainly am not saying with certainty anything about McLellan, because how could I? I don't know him. But when I see Caggiula get a push over Slepyshev when so little separates them, when I see Purcell getting the push over Yakupov, when I see how few Russian players McLellan has brought into the NHL or how no Russian NHL veteran player has ever joined a McLellan coached team, when I see how he rarely has any Russians on his team after his first year or two... I just wish there was an example to extinguish my doubts.


If you wanted more ammunition on this, the whole "Puljujarvi doesn't speak good enough English to be on the PP" suggests some level of bias. I know that Pavel Bure did not come over perfectly fluent, and yet somehow the Canucks saw fit to put him on the ice with the man advantage. I had a Gretzky video growing up where one of our favourite lines was "The Canadian and the Finn could barely understand each other, on the ice, they spoke pure offence." Somehow Kurri got PP time too. (I've added the video below, because you should really watch it when you have the time! Gretzky to Kurri section starts at 14:45).

Has there been any Europeans who have got a strong push under McLellan - most of his stars in San Jose were Canadian and American. Wasn't Hertl in and out of the doghouse? I guess the two Swedes on defence here, but as Spector always likes to point out, they speak almost flawless English...




Going through his teams, there's been a lot of Finnish players and Czech players he's used and had stick around his clubs. Usually depth guys, but not always. To me it looked like he's had a fair number of Europeans and virtually no Russians.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707032 is a reply to message #707024 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 16:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13

According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.


That Slepyshev is available should have been obvious to 30 other NHL GMs. That no one has called on him should be painfully obvious what his interest is around the league right now. Moving Slepyshev doesn't bring in anything that will help the Oilers, and really which AHL player are you planning on replacing him with where you don't get a little worse?

I'm still skeptical about McLellan's relationship with Russian players (see pregame thread against Nashville), but where we are right now, I'd be shocked is Slepyshev doesn't sign in the KHL this off-season. Which is probably why the Oilers want to trade him and there is little market for him.


So it's McLellan's fault?

I saw a player who was given a tremendous opportunity last year and especially in the playoffs. So much so that I believe the organization made bets on him to be a regular contributor. He gets hurt in the offseason, misses some time. Then when he has come back and played, he has done exactly what? I'm asking because unless I missed something, I have watched a player who I personally had high hopes for do nothing. This team is DYING for a right winger to step up and when he has played, he's invisible. So what exactly are you seeing that is McLellan's fault because I am seeing a player who has pissed an opportunity away but doing nothing when he plays.


Well a couple issues:

1) Is the production the issue? or is it the expectations that were the issue. Slepyshev has a heavy shot, and so we've heard lots from the Oilers and the Oilers media about what he could be, but he never had the production at any level to suggest that he would be more than a bottom-six player.

He scored 10 points in 41 games last year (0.24 points per game), and 3 points in 12 games in the playoffs (0.25 points per game).

2) This year he was rushed back early from injury twice - we know this because he was injured again very quickly after returning to the lineup with the same or similar ailment. Twice. He has 3 points in 18 games (0.17 points per game). He's not far off his production despite A) nagging injuries that have kept him out of a significant portion of the season, B) little opportunity to play with top players C) no powerplay time and D) limited ice-time. Slepyshev has not played more than 14:28 in any game this year (his only game over 14 minutes). He's had three games under 10 minutes and lots in the 10-12 minute range.

He hasn't been much different this year than he was last year, despite all of that, and especially despite the injuries, so I don't think it makes a lot of sense to give up on the player.

For the record, I don't blame the coach much on this one. He hasn't played the line from the playoffs together, but people forget that Slepyshev didn't score any more points in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. He just had a couple of big timely goals that were memorable. Same with Caggiula for that matter...

Every team needs bottom-six guys, so it's not

Well at least we agree on it not being McLellan's fault. When it comes to Slep or any player, you can put blame on the coach for not playing a player, you can put blame on the coach for not playing a player enough and you can put blame on a coach for not putting him in a position to succeed. Putting him in a position to succeed could be anything from who he puts on the players line,what situations he puts him in or if he puts a player into a position he's not ready for. What a coach can't be blamed for in my opinion is effort.

I wrongly had high hopes for Slep. I like his combination of size, speed and big shot. When he was on, Slep while not a banger, used his size to his advantage. He could go into the corners and get pucks. He had the speed to get to the spots he needed to be and to get too pucks, at times he showed some flashes of offensive ability and he's got a good shot. The problem is he didn't bring it much. He didn't skate, he didn't use his size, he didn't use his shot, he was just out there taking up space. I still believe he has the skill set, the size and speed to be an effective top 9 forward the problem is he has to want to be that in the NHL and to do that, he has to bring when he plays. He doesn't bring it and that's 100% on him. Too bad.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707035 is a reply to message #707032 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 16:41


Well at least we agree on it not being McLellan's fault. When it comes to Slep or any player, you can put blame on the coach for not playing a player, you can put blame on the coach for not playing a player enough and you can put blame on a coach for not putting him in a position to succeed. Putting him in a position to succeed could be anything from who he puts on the players line,what situations he puts him in or if he puts a player into a position he's not ready for. What a coach can't be blamed for in my opinion is effort.

I wrongly had high hopes for Slep. I like his combination of size, speed and big shot. When he was on, Slep while not a banger, used his size to his advantage. He could go into the corners and get pucks. He had the speed to get to the spots he needed to be and to get too pucks, at times he showed some flashes of offensive ability and he's got a good shot. The problem is he didn't bring it much. He didn't skate, he didn't use his size, he didn't use his shot, he was just out there taking up space. I still believe he has the skill set, the size and speed to be an effective top 9 forward the problem is he has to want to be that in the NHL and to do that, he has to bring when he plays. He doesn't bring it and that's 100% on him. Too bad.


How do you measure "wanting it" and "bringing it"?

He's producing at almost the same rate, despite playing hurt for a good portion of the season, and recovering from injury for another portion of the season.

What are you pointing to to back up the claim that he doesn't put in the effort? Have you rewatched game tape repeatedly to see how he's playing on each shift? Or is this just your impression from remembering the games he played, and the fact he's never blown your mind? He last played Jan. 6th. Do you remember anything about him that night? Who he played with? Whether he had any good chances? Do you remember the game the week before against Winnipeg? What did he do in that one? What game did he score in? Did he "want it" more in that game than he did on January 4th?

I think he's the same player, he's just A) played hurt and B) had to deal with unreasonable expectations from the world's worst hockey management group who thought because he scored a couple big goals in April (although producing points at the same rate as he always had), that he was now a second-line winger who could help make up for a terrible trade where they flushed a 50-60 point player for a downgrade at the same position.




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 Re: Winds of Change [message #707041 is a reply to message #707016 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 13:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:13

According to a tweet by Mark Spector, Chia has sent out an email to all teams saying Slep is now available in trade. Get excited people!!! icon_lol

In all seriousness, I don't see a ton of teams lining up for Slep. I had big hopes for him that he would have a good year as I like his skill set but he hasn't been good.


That Slepyshev is available should have been obvious to 30 other NHL GMs. That no one has called on him should be painfully obvious what his interest is around the league right now. Moving Slepyshev doesn't bring in anything that will help the Oilers, and really which AHL player are you planning on replacing him with where you don't get a little worse?

I'm still skeptical about McLellan's relationship with Russian players (see pregame thread against Nashville), but where we are right now, I'd be shocked is Slepyshev doesn't sign in the KHL this off-season. Which is probably why the Oilers want to trade him and there is little market for him.


So it's McLellan's fault?

I saw a player who was given a tremendous opportunity last year and especially in the playoffs. So much so that I believe the organization made bets on him to be a regular contributor. He gets hurt in the offseason, misses some time. Then when he has come back and played, he has done exactly what? I'm asking because unless I missed something, I have watched a player who I personally had high hopes for do nothing. This team is DYING for a right winger to step up and when he has played, he's invisible. So what exactly are you seeing that is McLellan's fault because I am seeing a player who has pissed an opportunity away but doing nothing when he plays.


Totally agree.



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