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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673869 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
Messages: 66
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It feels weird to be even slightly defending a move the Oilers have made.

I wonder if I actually feel okay about this or if I've just gotten very good at talking myself off the ledge.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673870 is a reply to message #673858 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:43

Red Rage wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:33

I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.


Big overpayment last year for Reinhart, absolutely stupid overpayment for Larsson this year.

Dougie Hamilton for for a couple of picks, but Adam freaking Larsson costs Taylor Hall? Insanity.


Yeah, that shows how clueless our organization is at reading player values.

I thought NUGENT-HOPKINS was an overpayment for Larsson.

Don't worry though, Stauffer says it's okay because Larsson is a right shot defenceman and can play 21-22 minutes a night.

What a joke. I'm absolutely livid.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673872 is a reply to message #673861 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Skoobz wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:44

Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.

Something weird is going on here.


What are they saying? Are the media actually grilling him? Or is it all softballs?

I know that Rishaug was tweeting his support for the deal shortly after it happened...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673873 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673874 is a reply to message #673858 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheJesman is currently offline TheJesman
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Mike wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:43

Red Rage wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:33

I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.


Big overpayment last year for Reinhart, absolutely stupid overpayment for Larsson this year.

Dougie Hamilton for for a couple of picks, but Adam freaking Larsson costs Taylor Hall? Insanity.


Oh man....these facts are very depressing, haha I came to the forum looking for someone to shine some light on this trade ANY light...but PC you really effed up this time. Man just when i was forgetting about the Reinhart deal...smh

Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18

The future looks bright...

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673875 is a reply to message #673867 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47

TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:23

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:50

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Demers
Davidson / Oesterle
Fayne

I mean, sure, I guess that's better than what we had last year. But that's not playoff calibre defense, and we just trade a franchise player and our absolute best trading chip to arrive at that place.



Fayne instead of Nurse? Do you really believe Nurse is that far off he wouldn't crack that top 7. Besides wouldn't him playing and gaining experience be the best for his learning at this point?


I'm of the belief that since he has limited AHL-eligibility left, it would be wise for them to learn from Gagner, Paajarvi, etc. and actually allow him to develop in the AHL. He *might* be better than Fayne right here, right now, but I think it's best for him and the Oilers to develop in the AHL while he can. He struggled at the end of last year.


I'm okay with Nurse on the farm unless he's seen a big leap from last year. He was struggling badly down the stretch.

I also don't want him in and out of the lineup as a seventh guy. Would rather see him get 25 minutes in Bakersfield.

His bonus cushion is an issue too. If Puljujarvi is on the team, then we need all the bonus space we can get.

I have a hard time believing we're getting Demers too, but who knows.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673876 is a reply to message #673873 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673877 is a reply to message #673872 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz is currently offline Skoobz
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

Skoobz wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:44

Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.

Something weird is going on here.


What are they saying? Are the media actually grilling him? Or is it all softballs?

I know that Rishaug was tweeting his support for the deal shortly after it happened...


They are going at him pretty hard. Trying to get him to say he's got Lucic in the bag is a big theme. I believe Spector actually asked him if this was a "Default deal", and he got pretty fidgety.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673878 is a reply to message #673876 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.


FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673879 is a reply to message #673878 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.


FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.


Hall for Larsson and next year's 1st+ - Okay, I think we all knew we'd be losing Hall someday and while I'm sad to see him go, at least Larsson is a player that fills a need.

Hall for Larsson, and nothing else, is just mind boggling.

I don't think this makes our team significantly worse in the long run, but it stinks of asset mismanagement.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673880 is a reply to message #673878 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.


FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.


Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673882 is a reply to message #673872 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
George is currently offline George
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- Chia points out that Draisaitl can play wing so there's flexibility.

- denies this was anything other than a hockey trade (i.e., suggests there was no locker room issues).

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673883 is a reply to message #673855 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Prince Albert 1 is currently offline Prince Albert 1
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ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:35

Exactly my thoughts. Mr. Ovechkin might have something to say about this.



He's not #1 LW in the league but he's definitely top 5 and probably top 3. Ovechkin and Benn are both ahead of him for sure and from there its debatable form #3-#5. Hall definitely in that range. Larsson is a top 10 RH Dman though. Right? Right?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673885 is a reply to message #673882 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
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George wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

- Chia points out that Draisaitl can play wing so there's flexibility.

- denies this was anything other than a hockey trade (i.e., suggests there was no locker room issues).


Credit to Chiarelli for not throwing Hall under the bus (The MacT version of this press conference would absolutely have a note about how Hall wasn't the right fit and how we needed a fresh presence in the locker room).

That being said, there's been enough smoke from various sources that I have to think there's a little fire. And I don't know anyone who's ever had a good interaction with Hall.

Again, from a purely 'did we get a player we need', I'm okay with this trade.

But if you can't get better value for Hall than this, even if the actual players involved in the trade make sense, I have to question your ability as a GM.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673886 is a reply to message #673880 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.


FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.


Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?


Hall, Nuge and the fourth overall pick?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673887 is a reply to message #673866 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spoonful is currently offline spoonful
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TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47



This is only assuming we sign Demers though, and you're right I'm sure we do overrate our wingers because Jamie Benn is probably the best LW, but he was definitely snubbed by team Canada because no other Canadian LW outscored him (Besides Benn). He's definitely one of the best LW in the league and that is still saying something...can you really say that about Larsson? Also it's not like Taylor is old he's only 24.


But they have a lot of forwards. Hall is one of the best (top 5 I would think) LW in the league but the Oil need defense badly. Everyone knows it and if this was the best they could do, so be it.

It doesn't mean they won the trade "value wise" but this is what they had to do. I really feel that Larsson will be that top minute munching defenseman that gets the Oilers into the playoffs. He immediately moves the rest of the D down a spot (except Klefbom) and that was more important than having a top 5 LW. The Oil have McDavid and Draisatl and now have added Pullujarvi. Forward is still a strength for the Oil.

And from Chia's press conference it seems as though they are still trying to get a more offensive defenseman as well.

I will judge all these moves once he's done and based on the results next season.

The Edmonton Oilers - "Craig's on it"

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673888 is a reply to message #673880 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Prince Albert 1 is currently offline Prince Albert 1
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.


FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.


Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?


I can't watch the presser as I'm at work. Are Edmonton's finest media personnel atleast putting the gears to Chiarelli a little bit?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673889 is a reply to message #673886 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:58

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.


FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.


Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?


Hall, Nuge and the fourth overall pick?




McDavid to the team that signs Gryba?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673890 is a reply to message #673888 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Is this worse that the Petry trade?

Does anyone miss Tambo's patience?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673891 is a reply to message #673887 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59

TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47



This is only assuming we sign Demers though, and you're right I'm sure we do overrate our wingers because Jamie Benn is probably the best LW, but he was definitely snubbed by team Canada because no other Canadian LW outscored him (Besides Benn). He's definitely one of the best LW in the league and that is still saying something...can you really say that about Larsson? Also it's not like Taylor is old he's only 24.


But they have a lot of forwards. Hall is one of the best (top 5 I would think) LW in the league but the Oil need defense badly. Everyone knows it and if this was the best they could do, so be it.

It doesn't mean they won the trade "value wise" but this is what they had to do. I really feel that Larsson will be that top minute munching defenseman that gets the Oilers into the playoffs. He immediately moves the rest of the D down a spot (except Klefbom) and that was more important than having a top 5 LW. The Oil have McDavid and Draisatl and now have added Pullujarvi. Forward is still a strength for the Oil.

And from Chia's press conference it seems as though they are still trying to get a more offensive defenseman as well.

I will judge all these moves once he's done and based on the results next season.


HA HA HA.

If they gave up Hall for Larsson, what the #$%& are they going to give to get this "offensive defenceman"? We'll have nothing left.

You know what kinds of teams lose trades? Losing teams. Teams that make this sort of deal don't usually win Stanley Cups. Just stupid.

I hope Gregor at least carves them. He was apparently ripping in to management and keeping Lowe and MacT around on his show today after the deal came down.


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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673892 is a reply to message #673873 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.


I actually think there is room for growth with Larsson. I like the player fine.

It's the return. An absolute, inexcusable overpayment of a franchise player.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673893 is a reply to message #673888 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673894 is a reply to message #673886 ]
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Leia is currently offline Leia
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How long before the club announce we are going to raise Lowe's jersey to the rafters in November? Lowe's probably asked for him to be traded so there was no issues with the number 4.

Seriously this deal sucks, not sure in what reality we don't get picks back on this. Chia has just waffled away through that presser, he looked flustered and didn't seem to want to be there. I think he knows that for the time being he's not going to be very popular.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673895 is a reply to message #673880 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ryanc182 is currently offline ryanc182
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Taylor Hall is a great player no doubt. Unless Larsson completely lays an egg, this helps us fill a void.

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

To play devils advocate, to me, Hall is not one of the top LW in the game. His exclusion from the Olympics and the World Cup of Hockey helps that argument. In the last two years, Hall has seen a decline. He only played 53 games 2 years ago with 38 points. Last year a full 82 and only 65 points. He is not irreplaceable.

That being said, I hope he scores 80+ this year, but I don't think he'll do it with the Devils.

Thank you for everything Taylor. Enjoy the Eastern Conference and no longer being run through the boards nightly!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673897 is a reply to message #673887 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
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spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59

TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47



This is only assuming we sign Demers though, and you're right I'm sure we do overrate our wingers because Jamie Benn is probably the best LW, but he was definitely snubbed by team Canada because no other Canadian LW outscored him (Besides Benn). He's definitely one of the best LW in the league and that is still saying something...can you really say that about Larsson? Also it's not like Taylor is old he's only 24.


But they have a lot of forwards. Hall is one of the best (top 5 I would think) LW in the league but the Oil need defense badly. Everyone knows it and if this was the best they could do, so be it.

It doesn't mean they won the trade "value wise" but this is what they had to do. I really feel that Larsson will be that top minute munching defenseman that gets the Oilers into the playoffs. He immediately moves the rest of the D down a spot (except Klefbom) and that was more important than having a top 5 LW. The Oil have McDavid and Draisatl and now have added Pullujarvi. Forward is still a strength for the Oil.

And from Chia's press conference it seems as though they are still trying to get a more offensive defenseman as well.

I will judge all these moves once he's done and based on the results next season.


For me it's weird, because I agree with you on Larsson. I think he's absolutely the right player for the Oilers. I think we have a better balance on our team now, and I think Larsson is one of a few pieces we needed to push us over the hump.

I just don't know how you don't get better value for Hall. That's the stickler for me. I would be happy with this trade if there had been more coming from Jersey.

That being said, I guess if you're one of the top 2 defensemen on a team like Jersey and end the season at +15, you're probably worth more than we're willing to accept. Anyone reading Jersey fans reactions to all of this?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673899 is a reply to message #673897 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59

TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47



This is only assuming we sign Demers though, and you're right I'm sure we do overrate our wingers because Jamie Benn is probably the best LW, but he was definitely snubbed by team Canada because no other Canadian LW outscored him (Besides Benn). He's definitely one of the best LW in the league and that is still saying something...can you really say that about Larsson? Also it's not like Taylor is old he's only 24.


But they have a lot of forwards. Hall is one of the best (top 5 I would think) LW in the league but the Oil need defense badly. Everyone knows it and if this was the best they could do, so be it.

It doesn't mean they won the trade "value wise" but this is what they had to do. I really feel that Larsson will be that top minute munching defenseman that gets the Oilers into the playoffs. He immediately moves the rest of the D down a spot (except Klefbom) and that was more important than having a top 5 LW. The Oil have McDavid and Draisatl and now have added Pullujarvi. Forward is still a strength for the Oil.

And from Chia's press conference it seems as though they are still trying to get a more offensive defenseman as well.

I will judge all these moves once he's done and based on the results next season.


For me it's weird, because I agree with you on Larsson. I think he's absolutely the right player for the Oilers. I think we have a better balance on our team now, and I think Larsson is one of a few pieces we needed to push us over the hump.

I just don't know how you don't get better value for Hall. That's the stickler for me. I would be happy with this trade if there had been more coming from Jersey.

That being said, I guess if you're one of the top 2 defensemen on a team like Jersey and end the season at +15, you're probably worth more than we're willing to accept. Anyone reading Jersey fans reactions to all of this?


Only thing I've heard is that they're ecstatic and think Shero robbed the Oilers blind.


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673900 is a reply to message #673897 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen is currently offline Suomalainen
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vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02



For me it's weird, because I agree with you on Larsson. I think he's absolutely the right player for the Oilers. I think we have a better balance on our team now, and I think Larsson is one of a few pieces we needed to push us over the hump.

I just don't know how you don't get better value for Hall. That's the stickler for me. I would be happy with this trade if there had been more coming from Jersey.

That being said, I guess if you're one of the top 2 defensemen on a team like Jersey and end the season at +15, you're probably worth more than we're willing to accept. Anyone reading Jersey fans reactions to all of this?


I think had it be for 93 or 14, we'd at least feel this was fair-ish.

97.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673901 is a reply to message #673890 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:00

Is this worse that the Petry trade?

Does anyone miss Tambo's patience?


Yes.

The one thing you can now credit to MacTavish and Tambo is that they never made a trade as bad as the Taylor Hall trade.

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 Farewell, Hall.... [message #673902 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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This deal ain't on you, kid, anyone with eyes could see you were not the problem in Edmonton.

Have a stellar, winning career, wish it could be in Edmonton.


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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673903 is a reply to message #673893 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.


So, this implies that Chiarelli would have dealt Hall straight up for Travis Hamonic??


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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673904 is a reply to message #673893 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Prince Albert 1 is currently offline Prince Albert 1
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.


Trading Hall straight up for the actual Hamonic would have been a loser trade. For a guy you hope turns into Hamonic? Brutal.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673905 is a reply to message #673899 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59

TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47



This is only assuming we sign Demers though, and you're right I'm sure we do overrate our wingers because Jamie Benn is probably the best LW, but he was definitely snubbed by team Canada because no other Canadian LW outscored him (Besides Benn). He's definitely one of the best LW in the league and that is still saying something...can you really say that about Larsson? Also it's not like Taylor is old he's only 24.


But they have a lot of forwards. Hall is one of the best (top 5 I would think) LW in the league but the Oil need defense badly. Everyone knows it and if this was the best they could do, so be it.

It doesn't mean they won the trade "value wise" but this is what they had to do. I really feel that Larsson will be that top minute munching defenseman that gets the Oilers into the playoffs. He immediately moves the rest of the D down a spot (except Klefbom) and that was more important than having a top 5 LW. The Oil have McDavid and Draisatl and now have added Pullujarvi. Forward is still a strength for the Oil.

And from Chia's press conference it seems as though they are still trying to get a more offensive defenseman as well.

I will judge all these moves once he's done and based on the results next season.


For me it's weird, because I agree with you on Larsson. I think he's absolutely the right player for the Oilers. I think we have a better balance on our team now, and I think Larsson is one of a few pieces we needed to push us over the hump.

I just don't know how you don't get better value for Hall. That's the stickler for me. I would be happy with this trade if there had been more coming from Jersey.

That being said, I guess if you're one of the top 2 defensemen on a team like Jersey and end the season at +15, you're probably worth more than we're willing to accept. Anyone reading Jersey fans reactions to all of this?


Only thing I've heard is that they're ecstatic and think Shero robbed the Oilers blind.



http://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2016/6/29/12061200/devils-a cquire-taylor-hall-for-adam-larsson

Quote:

However, losing Larsson is tough for all New Jersey fans. We've seen "total bust" Larsson develop into an elite defensive force on the blueline for the Devils and was becoming a force to be reckoned with. Although Larsson never put up elite offense, his defense made up for it and he was part of one of the top defensive pairs in the league. However, Larsson's skating will never be elite and will eventually hold him back offensively in the long-term.

At face value, the Devils win this trade big. Larsson was a big piece for New Jersey, but acquiring a top NHL player like Taylor Hall for Larsson is an unreal value and a trade that Shero had to make. Larsson could very well end up as a #1 guy in the NHL and steady force for the Oilers, but as a team starved for offense, the Devils did the right thing and acquired elite talent.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673906 is a reply to message #673893 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spoonful is currently offline spoonful
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.


Did he say that?

I think Larsson is better than Hamonic right now.

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 Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673908 is a reply to message #673902 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leia is currently offline Leia
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One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673909 is a reply to message #673862 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakey is currently offline Jakey
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spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:45

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:35

I think Larsson is actually a very good d-man, and is going to turn out to be one of the pieces we needed, but I still think that for Hall, you should be getting more.

In terms of what the team needs, the trade makes sense. In terms of what you get for Taylor Hall? You at least need -something- more than Larsson.


I completely agree with you.


Ya agreed as well. Just am shocked like everyone around here we couldn't have squeezed more out of NJ. Something like a 2nd Rd pick next year even would make us all feel a little better. I guess if you are NJ think about trading your #1 Dman with upside (most agree to that) that is locked in for another 5-6 years and is pretty dirt cheap at just over $4 million/year. It would take a lot for me to move that kind of Dman & Chiarelli said in his pressed that getting a righty/lefty top pairing guy was "critical". So it is done & hope that the balance of the team is better positioned to hopefully make the playoffs next year. We'll wait & see I guess.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673911 is a reply to message #673895 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02


If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.



This seems to be a common refrain I keep hearing.

There's a big difference between waiting to 'win' a trade and waiting to get fair value in a trade. There are trades made that are mutually beneficial. When you are trading a franchise player, one of the top scoring wingers in the league, a guy who drive the play on his line... that should be the minimum benchmark, IMO.

Again, nothing against Larsson... but he's worth closer to Eberle or RNH.

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 Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673913 is a reply to message #673908 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Prince Albert 1 is currently offline Prince Albert 1
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Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.


Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673914 is a reply to message #673905 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Here's a neutral third party on the deal:

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/oilers-send-taylor-hall-to -devils-in-stunning-trade/

Quote:

On the surface it is one of the most stunning and unbelievable trades in recent memory because it just seems to be so lopsided in favor of the Devils. It also continues what has been a disturbing trend in the career of Oilers general manager Peter Chiarelli when it comes to trading young, impact forwards still in the prime of their careers.
.

Quote:

But the most unbelievable thing about this trade is that it is yet another high-level, top-line forward in the prime of his career that Chiarelli has traded as Hall now joins a list that also includes Phil Kessel and Tyler Seguin.
Since Chiarelli became the general manager of the Boston Bruins back in 2006, there have been 55 players in the NHL that have appeared in at least 200 games averaged more than .77 points per game during that stretch.
Out of that group, the only four players that were traded at age 26 or younger during that stretch have been Ilya Kovalchuk, Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, and Phil Kessel.
Three of those players (Hall, Seguin and Kessel) were traded by Chiarelli. The fourth player, Kovalchuk, was traded at the deadline in a contract year by Atlanta when it was clear they could not re-sign him.
In other words: Players like Taylor Hall (age, production, skill, etc.) simply do not get traded in the NHL right now ... unless Peter Chiarelli is the general manager of their team.
Hall and Seguin were the top-two picks in the 2010 NHL draft with Hall going to Edmonton and Seguin to Boston. Chiarelli has now traded both of them.
The Kessel trade at least had the potential to work out because it helped the Bruins land Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. But Chiarelli turned it into a loss by trading Seguin to Dallas for Loui Eriksson, Joe Morrow, Mark Fraser and Reilly Smith. With Eriksson set to leave the Bruins as a free agent, the only thing Boston has to show for that trade today is Morrow and Jimmy Hayes (acquired from the Florida Panthers in a trade for Smith a year ago).


And another piece from Scott Cullen:

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-oilers-don-t-get-ne arly-enough-for-hall-1.517957

Quote:

Hall, 24, has been one of the best offensive wingers in the league. Not in a, “Hey, he’s pretty good,” kind of way, but more like, “Wow, this guy is a superstar!” Over the past four seasons, here are the leaders in points per 60 during 5-on-5 play:

TOP 5-ON-5 SCORERS, 2012-2013 TO 2015-2016
PLAYER TEAM POS PTS/60
Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh C 2.71
Jamie Benn Dallas LW 2.54
Taylor Hall Edmonton LW 2.49
Ryan Getzlaf Anaheim C 2.42
Vladimir Tarasenko St. Louis RW 2.42
Tyler Seguin Dallas C 2.41
Patrick Kane Chicago RW 2.41
Corey Perry Anaheim RW 2.36
Matt Duchene Colorado C 2.32
Rick Nash N.Y. Rangers LW 2.31
Keep in mind, that Hall put up these numbers on a team that controlled less than 43% of 5-on-5 shot attempts during that four-year period, so putting up elite scoring numbers in that situation is remarkable.


Quote:

He’s not a big scorer, managing a career-high 24 points in 64 games in 2014-2015, and has been a mediocre possession player. Admittedly, Larsson has taken on tougher assignments while partnered with Andy Greene, but that duo was buried last season, with the Devils controlling just 43.8% of 5-on-5 shot attempts when they were partners.
In Edmonton, the Oilers will need Larsson to play big minutes. He can play the right side, alongside Oskar Klefbom, on Edmonton’s top pair, which ought to improve Edmonton’s defence (it’s hard to get worse, right?). It’s just difficult to imagine how it will improve the team overall.
Larsson is signed for five more seasons, at a cap hit of $4,166,666. There is a little cost savings when compared to Hall’s contract, but nowhere close to addressing the relative impact that each player has on the game.
Verdict: This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 15:16]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673915 is a reply to message #673911 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:12

ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02


If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.



This seems to be a common refrain I keep hearing.

There's a big difference between waiting to 'win' a trade and waiting to get fair value in a trade. There are trades made that are mutually beneficial. When you are trading a franchise player, one of the top scoring wingers in the league, a guy who drive the play on his line... that should be the minimum benchmark, IMO.

Again, nothing against Larsson... but he's worth closer to Eberle or RNH.


For me, part of it is that Hall was the only bright spot for a long time. He was the only player that constantly put up large numbers of points and who always looked like he gave a crap. I wanted to see us win a cup with Taylor Hall, to make us feel like maybe the decade of futility was worth -something-.

That being said - he was also often injured and played a style that suggested his injury-ridden days were by no means behind him.

I don't know. Hall has never been my favourite Oiler, but he was our best player not named McDavid and I always hoped we'd see a better return for him. It's time to look forward, though. And for the record, I -still- think the Petry deal was worse.

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 Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673916 is a reply to message #673913 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.


Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.


Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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