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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680257 is a reply to message #680246 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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benv wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:57

On the radio this morning, one of the broadcasters made an offhand comment that "No Oilers' fan would undo the Hall/Larsson trade now even if they could". I knew right away that there's certainly some fans that still would want to, but I was curious as to how many.

So I thought I would ask the question. Given the start of the Oilers and the play of both Hall and Larsson would you still want to undo the trade?


Could probably do this poll every 20 games or so :)

I said no. Happy with the balance of the team. We lost the trade in a vacuum, but what do we do with Hall back? Just keep trying to outscore our problems? Get some D less able to playing against top players by other means and hope it works out? Guess that's an option, but it seems so far Chia has managed to make a good team.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680259 is a reply to message #680246 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
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benv wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:57

On the radio this morning, one of the broadcasters made an offhand comment that "No Oilers' fan would undo the Hall/Larsson trade now even if they could". I knew right away that there's certainly some fans that still would want to, but I was curious as to how many.

So I thought I would ask the question. Given the start of the Oilers and the play of both Hall and Larsson would you still want to undo the trade?


No, but I'm willing to admit that it's in large part because we're winning games, finally, and I don't know how much of it has to do with this trade and how much is just everyone finally clicking.

Hall is still a top player, but Larsson is proving his case rather well. Hard call to make.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680264 is a reply to message #680259 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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vsove wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 14:35

benv wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:57

On the radio this morning, one of the broadcasters made an offhand comment that "No Oilers' fan would undo the Hall/Larsson trade now even if they could". I knew right away that there's certainly some fans that still would want to, but I was curious as to how many.

So I thought I would ask the question. Given the start of the Oilers and the play of both Hall and Larsson would you still want to undo the trade?


No, but I'm willing to admit that it's in large part because we're winning games, finally, and I don't know how much of it has to do with this trade and how much is just everyone finally clicking.

Hall is still a top player, but Larsson is proving his case rather well. Hard call to make.

I just look at it this way: the Oil traded a big piece from an area of strength to address a glaring area of need. The loss of the big piece, while not being compensated for by the piece received in return, did result in a net gain for the *team* as a whole by making it more balanced. That, and I agree that Hall was never going to get as much in return as some fans think.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680266 is a reply to message #680264 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 14:38

vsove wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 14:35

benv wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:57

On the radio this morning, one of the broadcasters made an offhand comment that "No Oilers' fan would undo the Hall/Larsson trade now even if they could". I knew right away that there's certainly some fans that still would want to, but I was curious as to how many.

So I thought I would ask the question. Given the start of the Oilers and the play of both Hall and Larsson would you still want to undo the trade?


No, but I'm willing to admit that it's in large part because we're winning games, finally, and I don't know how much of it has to do with this trade and how much is just everyone finally clicking.

Hall is still a top player, but Larsson is proving his case rather well. Hard call to make.

I just look at it this way: the Oil traded a big piece from an area of strength to address a glaring area of need. The loss of the big piece, while not being compensated for by the piece received in return, did result in a net gain for the *team* as a whole by making it more balanced. That, and I agree that Hall was never going to get as much in return as some fans think.


This x100. Hall is the overall better player, but Larsson fills an area we've needed for a decade and is a bigger boost to our needs.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680268 is a reply to message #680188 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality is currently offline Pseudoreality
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V wrote on Thu, 27 October 2016 17:44

Pseudoreality wrote on Thu, 22 September 2016 17:01

I am still bitter about the trade and I can totally see why Hall is. As mentioned earlier, he should be upset. Better that then him being super happy to get out of town.


Are you still bitter or have you finally understood why he was traded?

They could have given him away for nothing and the team would have been better off. That much should be clear by now.


I am ecstatic that the Oilers are off to such a great start and will take a winning team without Hall over a losing team with Hall. However, like Hall, I wish he was still with the team to be part of the turnaround and I am not convinced he was part of the problem. The team's hot start cannot be 100% credited to the trade. A healthy older McDavid, a healthy Klef, Lucic, Russell, Talbot's play and a favourable schedule to start the year have all helped the team.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 October 2016 16:58]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680269 is a reply to message #680268 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Pseudoreality wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 16:51

V wrote on Thu, 27 October 2016 17:44

Pseudoreality wrote on Thu, 22 September 2016 17:01

I am still bitter about the trade and I can totally see why Hall is. As mentioned earlier, he should be upset. Better that then him being super happy to get out of town.


Are you still bitter or have you finally understood why he was traded?

They could have given him away for nothing and the team would have been better off. That much should be clear by now.


I am ecstatic that the Oilers are off to such a great start and will take a winning team without Hall over a losing team with Hall. However, like Hall, I wish he was still with the team to be part of the turnaround and I am not convinced he was part of the problem. The team's hot start cannot be 100% credited to the trade. A healthy old McDavid, a healthy Klef, Lucic, Russell, Talbot's play and a favourable schedule to start the year have all helped the team.


Agreed. It's probably wise to not confuse correlation / causation in this case. Unlike previous years when it seemed like everything that went wrong did, this year everything seems to be aligning for the Oilers to start the season. There's a lot of external factors that have contributed to their success, probably far more than the Hall/Larsson trade.

That said, Larsson is a welcome addition. I still would have tried moving out other pieces before Hall, so I don't love the trade, but if the Oilers keep winning, I think most fans will learn to live with it.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680271 is a reply to message #680269 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 16:56

Pseudoreality wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 16:51

V wrote on Thu, 27 October 2016 17:44

Pseudoreality wrote on Thu, 22 September 2016 17:01

I am still bitter about the trade and I can totally see why Hall is. As mentioned earlier, he should be upset. Better that then him being super happy to get out of town.


Are you still bitter or have you finally understood why he was traded?

They could have given him away for nothing and the team would have been better off. That much should be clear by now.


I am ecstatic that the Oilers are off to such a great start and will take a winning team without Hall over a losing team with Hall. However, like Hall, I wish he was still with the team to be part of the turnaround and I am not convinced he was part of the problem. The team's hot start cannot be 100% credited to the trade. A healthy old McDavid, a healthy Klef, Lucic, Russell, Talbot's play and a favourable schedule to start the year have all helped the team.


Agreed. It's probably wise to not confuse correlation / causation in this case. Unlike previous years when it seemed like everything that went wrong did, this year everything seems to be aligning for the Oilers to start the season. There's a lot of external factors that have contributed to their success, probably far more than the Hall/Larsson trade.

That said, Larsson is a welcome addition. I still would have tried moving out other pieces before Hall, so I don't love the trade, but if the Oilers keep winning, I think most fans will learn to live with it.


Yeah, I look at the team and the way they've played and it looks like the biggest factors are A) McDavid being absolutely dominant every time he's on the ice and B) Cam Talbot playing very well early. Larsson has been good, but as long as whoever was in his place wasn't a complete tire fire, then I don't know how big the drop off is.

It's nearly impossible to gauge whether the results are different if the trade didn't happen, because that move shaped the rest of the summer's transactions. The Oilers decided not to go all in on Jason Demers, and focused on other parts of the roster.

Does anyone think that New Jersey would undo the trade given the option now?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680274 is a reply to message #680271 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
V is currently offline V
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Hall might actually be amazing in Jersey, and that's great. I haven't seen any Jersey games this year, but I'm not surprised to see that Hall is a PPG player with a negative +/-.

He was a defensive disaster, and was an entitled brat that needed a location change before he could change his state of mind. And this entitled brat was a leader in the locker room. There should be no surprise the team was a loser with him, and changed 180 degrees when he left.

It should also be no surprise that Hall was the one traded. It should even be more obvious that Hall was the problem when you see what he was traded for. Everyone knew he was available, and that was the market for him.

One cancerous leader can destroy an organization. Nothing rights the ship faster than cutting out the cancer.

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 11:39


V is quite possibly the best poster on Oilfans.



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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680281 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Fri, 28 October 2016 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently online NetBOG
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Oh look, Taylor Hall lets his man slip by the score the OT winner. Don't miss him even a bit.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680331 is a reply to message #680274 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27 is currently offline kungpaobenji27
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V wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 19:41

Hall might actually be amazing in Jersey, and that's great. I haven't seen any Jersey games this year, but I'm not surprised to see that Hall is a PPG player with a negative +/-.

He was a defensive disaster, and was an entitled brat that needed a location change before he could change his state of mind. And this entitled brat was a leader in the locker room. There should be no surprise the team was a loser with him, and changed 180 degrees when he left.

It should also be no surprise that Hall was the one traded. It should even be more obvious that Hall was the problem when you see what he was traded for. Everyone knew he was available, and that was the market for him.

One cancerous leader can destroy an organization. Nothing rights the ship faster than cutting out the cancer.


Fully agree with all of that. I truly believe there IS NO "turnaround" with Hall still in the lineup. He would've continued to drag others down just with his presence & bad habits alone.

He needed a change of scenery to reevaluate his perspective on the game, etc.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680332 is a reply to message #680331 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k is currently offline g2k
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kungpaobenji27 wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 07:26

V wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 19:41

Hall might actually be amazing in Jersey, and that's great. I haven't seen any Jersey games this year, but I'm not surprised to see that Hall is a PPG player with a negative +/-.

He was a defensive disaster, and was an entitled brat that needed a location change before he could change his state of mind. And this entitled brat was a leader in the locker room. There should be no surprise the team was a loser with him, and changed 180 degrees when he left.

It should also be no surprise that Hall was the one traded. It should even be more obvious that Hall was the problem when you see what he was traded for. Everyone knew he was available, and that was the market for him.

One cancerous leader can destroy an organization. Nothing rights the ship faster than cutting out the cancer.


Fully agree with all of that. I truly believe there IS NO "turnaround" with Hall still in the lineup. He would've continued to drag others down just with his presence & bad habits alone.

He needed a change of scenery to reevaluate his perspective on the game, etc.

One thing I will admit. Things that were wrong with the former dynamic of this team was Hall would repeat the same dumb mistakes with occasional reprimand and continue to the beat of his own drum while Yakupov would be held to a completely different set of rules.

You can't have those kinds of inconsistencies in the room. The latest coach made strides, but PC physically removed that dynamic from upstairs. Still kinda had his sweatpants yanked down, but just saying there is still some value in how you can adjust culture in certain transactions along with addressing a need.


#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680337 is a reply to message #680252 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid is currently offline ziltoid
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Adam wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 14:05

benv wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:57

On the radio this morning, one of the broadcasters made an offhand comment that "No Oilers' fan would undo the Hall/Larsson trade now even if they could". I knew right away that there's certainly some fans that still would want to, but I was curious as to how many.

So I thought I would ask the question. Given the start of the Oilers and the play of both Hall and Larsson would you still want to undo the trade?


Absolutely. In a heartbeat.

Larsson has been good. He's a calming presence, very good at taking down passes with his stick, physical, and steady. As billed though, there's not a lot of offence there. He's got one assist so far, and I don't think that's just luck. He doesn't have much for offensive instincts. As I've said before, not every offensive defenceman is great, but all great defencemen have an offensive aspect to their game.



Too be fair, Larsson has 1 less point than Sekera and Russell, and is tied with Klefbom (both have 2 assists). I have noticed that Larsson is starting to get more engaged offensively... making some pinches, shooting the puck more, etc. I think he has more offence than what he showed in NJ, but it will probably take a few dozen games before it starts to show as he's had the defensive side of the game beat so deep into him from his time in NJ. I don't think he'll ever put up 40 points, but I can see him cracking 30 points in future seasons (his last 2 seasons are 18 & 24 points).

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680338 is a reply to message #680337 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 09:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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People rag on Larsson for his lack of points. I know it's tough to quantify, but how many extra points do our forwards have due to his ability to get the puck out of our D zone quickly & efficiently?

How many times over the last 10 years have our forwards been stuck in our own end their entire shift, leaving their only option as a dump out and line change? Way too many to count. That doesn't happen very often with Larsson back there.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680342 is a reply to message #680338 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 09:37

People rag on Larsson for his lack of points. I know it's tough to quantify, but how many extra points do our forwards have due to his ability to get the puck out of our D zone quickly & efficiently?

How many times over the last 10 years have our forwards been stuck in our own end their entire shift, leaving their only option as a dump out and line change? Way too many to count. That doesn't happen very often with Larsson back there.


Larsson is only 23 too. He's gone how many years getting D and only D pounded into his head by coaches burying him in his own zone. Give the guy time. Sometimes something just clicks in a D's mind at a certain age and they finally figure out how to safely combine risk taking with their defensive responsibilities, and they take a huge step. It's still possible with Larsson.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680344 is a reply to message #680252 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Adam wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:05

benv wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:57

On the radio this morning, one of the broadcasters made an offhand comment that "No Oilers' fan would undo the Hall/Larsson trade now even if they could". I knew right away that there's certainly some fans that still would want to, but I was curious as to how many.

So I thought I would ask the question. Given the start of the Oilers and the play of both Hall and Larsson would you still want to undo the trade?


Absolutely. In a heartbeat.

Larsson has been good. He's a calming presence, very good at taking down passes with his stick, physical, and steady. As billed though, there's not a lot of offence there. He's got one assist so far, and I don't think that's just luck. He doesn't have much for offensive instincts. As I've said before, not every offensive defenceman is great, but all great defencemen have an offensive aspect to their game.

Taylor Hall is a star player, and most of the best teams have a couple of star threats. When McDavid isn't on the ice, the Oilers play more of the time in their own end and give up more chances than they get. Hall would have been able to make that two lines that could carry the play most times.

I love what the Oilers have done out of the gate this year, but the Oilers traded a 10 for a 7. I'd undo it immediately if I could, but I suspect Shero would end that call very quickly if you asked...


Agree.
Larsson isn't the reason the Oil are 7-1, the addition of Lucic, Russell, healthy Klefbom, McDavid, RNH, Rebirth of Sekera, Pitlick, Letestu, Lander, and a Talbot looking like a barn door in net, are IMHO much much bigger factors, with the team doing this well Hall's trade value would be a lot higher, we sold low. The better the Oil do this year, the value of everyone goes up in trade value, job of GM will be a lot easier.

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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680345 is a reply to message #680344 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 12:35

Adam wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:05

benv wrote on Fri, 28 October 2016 13:57

On the radio this morning, one of the broadcasters made an offhand comment that "No Oilers' fan would undo the Hall/Larsson trade now even if they could". I knew right away that there's certainly some fans that still would want to, but I was curious as to how many.

So I thought I would ask the question. Given the start of the Oilers and the play of both Hall and Larsson would you still want to undo the trade?


Absolutely. In a heartbeat.

Larsson has been good. He's a calming presence, very good at taking down passes with his stick, physical, and steady. As billed though, there's not a lot of offence there. He's got one assist so far, and I don't think that's just luck. He doesn't have much for offensive instincts. As I've said before, not every offensive defenceman is great, but all great defencemen have an offensive aspect to their game.

Taylor Hall is a star player, and most of the best teams have a couple of star threats. When McDavid isn't on the ice, the Oilers play more of the time in their own end and give up more chances than they get. Hall would have been able to make that two lines that could carry the play most times.

I love what the Oilers have done out of the gate this year, but the Oilers traded a 10 for a 7. I'd undo it immediately if I could, but I suspect Shero would end that call very quickly if you asked...


Agree.
Larsson isn't the reason the Oil are 7-1, the addition of Lucic, Russell, healthy Klefbom, McDavid, RNH, Rebirth of Sekera, Pitlick, Letestu, Lander, and a Talbot looking like a barn door in net, are IMHO much much bigger factors, with the team doing this well Hall's trade value would be a lot higher, we sold low. The better the Oil do this year, the value of everyone goes up in trade value, job of GM will be a lot easier.


Larsson has been better than Russell. If Russell had to play Larsson's minutes we would be back to the old days of fire drills in our end all night against top players, that's what happened to him in Dallas, he was destroyed when they made him play top pairing minutes. Larsson let's Sekera/Russell play easier minutes, more offensive zone starts, easier competition. It's all working together now, players are playing the role they're suited for. Take Klef or Larsson out and it falls apart.

And considering Hall doesn't play to his potential when he's not "the guy", like when McDavid came back last year and before McDavid was injured, I don't think we miss him all that much. Not as much as we would miss Larsson now. Hall would be a 50-60 point guy if he had to play 2nd fiddle to McDavid (maybe less than that if we only went by his performance last year with McDavid back from his injury), performing poorly on the Woodcroft PP if he was here this year, and he would still only get you Larsson. He's actually a below 50% corsi % player on Jersey so far, and his points/60 5v5 are way down. Good for him though finally being on a team with a properly coached PP, was never gonna happen here though unfortunately, we have Woodcroft for at least another few years.

[Updated on: Sat, 29 October 2016 13:34]

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680348 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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You know who isn't getting enough credit for the Oilers turnaround.

Hunter.

The team has a new identity this season, and it was really once Hunter donned the Oilers jersey that the team started turning it around.

Forget Larsson, Lucic, Russell, etc.

Team toughness, attitude, new identity = Hunter.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680356 is a reply to message #680348 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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mightyreasoner wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 12:36

You know who isn't getting enough credit for the Oilers turnaround.

Hunter.

The team has a new identity this season, and it was really once Hunter donned the Oilers jersey that the team started turning it around.

Forget Larsson, Lucic, Russell, etc.

Team toughness, attitude, new identity = Hunter.


He's a mean cat alright.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680359 is a reply to message #680356 ]
Sat, 29 October 2016 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie is currently offline Xombie
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OK here's my view of the Hall trade. The same as others have allready said, but I'm going to make a car analogy. Similar to the Corvette analogy somebody posted in the Yakupov trade thread (I think).

So your in a racing leauge. You have a dope arse race car. The cars got a rad engine, but you got no tires, so the cars going nowhere. You win some unexpected lottery, and the prize is an even better engine, the best in the world!

So you ask the other teams for some tires. They all know you won the super engine. One team offers you four dependable good tires, but he wants your old, awesome engine. You know the tires aren't worth the engine, but you do the deal. It hurts to see the old engine doing great with its new car. Except your car is running great with your new engine, and the four tires you desperately needed. Your car is better than the teams that you traded with.


I've moved on. The Edmonton Oilers have traded much better players than Hall. It sucks when a star leaves your team. Recently they've left due to some drama scandal, and were happy to go. Hall left in a hockey trade, and was sad to go. Yet we try to make it a drama scandle?

Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680373 is a reply to message #680359 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality is currently offline Pseudoreality
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Xombie wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 17:46

OK here's my view of the Hall trade. The same as others have allready said, but I'm going to make a car analogy. Similar to the Corvette analogy somebody posted in the Yakupov trade thread (I think).

So your in a racing leauge. You have a dope arse race car. The cars got a rad engine, but you got no tires, so the cars going nowhere. You win some unexpected lottery, and the prize is an even better engine, the best in the world!

So you ask the other teams for some tires. They all know you won the super engine. One team offers you four dependable good tires, but he wants your old, awesome engine. You know the tires aren't worth the engine, but you do the deal. It hurts to see the old engine doing great with its new car. Except your car is running great with your new engine, and the four tires you desperately needed. Your car is better than the teams that you traded with.


I've moved on. The Edmonton Oilers have traded much better players than Hall. It sucks when a star leaves your team. Recently they've left due to some drama scandal, and were happy to go. Hall left in a hockey trade, and was sad to go. Yet we try to make it a drama scandle?


The difference is a car only needs one engine. Hockey teams require more than one forward, particularly if your team has a tendency of having a lot of injuries. I know where you are getting at here, but its not a perfect analogy.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680376 is a reply to message #680359 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy is currently offline philly boy
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Xombie wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 17:46

OK here's my view of the Hall trade. The same as others have allready said, but I'm going to make a car analogy. Similar to the Corvette analogy somebody posted in the Yakupov trade thread (I think).

So your in a racing leauge. You have a dope arse race car. The cars got a rad engine, but you got no tires, so the cars going nowhere. You win some unexpected lottery, and the prize is an even better engine, the best in the world!

So you ask the other teams for some tires. They all know you won the super engine. One team offers you four dependable good tires, but he wants your old, awesome engine. You know the tires aren't worth the engine, but you do the deal. It hurts to see the old engine doing great with its new car. Except your car is running great with your new engine, and the four tires you desperately needed. Your car is better than the teams that you traded with.


I've moved on. The Edmonton Oilers have traded much better players than Hall. It sucks when a star leaves your team. Recently they've left due to some drama scandal, and were happy to go. Hall left in a hockey trade, and was sad to go. Yet we try to make it a drama scandle?


not going to comment on the analogy you made, just on the last comment about moving on.

I've moved on. Long ago. About a week after the trade was done, but probably more like a day or two after. The reaction was mostly shock, not anger or anything else. The balance of the team was off and it's been close to being fixed, almost in a single off-season. As you said, the Oilers have traded much better players than Hall before. I sort of understand why people were so upset and loved Hall as a player, but to me he was always just "really good", not superstar calibre, and I was legitimately concerned about the potential clash of egos between him and 97 moving forward... perhaps not about the "clash" but more regarding his personality and ego, relating to the structure of the team and it's leadership group moving forward... when McDavid was drafted, that was a seismic shift and changed everything, nothing was ever going to be the same and I think his [Hall's] days were numbered shortly after. Combine that with the drop he had in the last half of the season and it was all but over.

I was in favour of them keeping Hall moving forward for 1 more season, I admit, but looking back I'm definitely happy the deal was made. And I did want them to keep Hall for an extra season because I wanted the org to protect, and project value on their best players and build internal strength so to speak, and to hopefully be able to develop Davidson and Nurse from within, so they could get more value in a future deal. But it's evident the value was never there, and the Oilers - despite having 4 first overall picks - were still in a position of weakness from the lack of success they've had (understatement) and every other team in the league knowing their weaknesses and what they were looking for in terms of trade.

It's over now, and quite frankly I'm glad he gone - mostly because of the backlash seen online from fans who seem partial to the departed player rather than the team itself, and because subsequently the online fan community in general had become so whole heartedly unbearable, both on forums/message boards and blogs... his trade closed a chapter and started a new, more hopeful one IMO. The only minor problem now from what I've seen (from the online community) is the sort of divergence amongst fans it's created, who look at any success the team is having and point at Hall as if to say, "see, he was part of the problem" or something to that extent.. or cheer for Hall to have a monstrous season so they can point at management and other fans or "Hall bashers" as to say "look at these f'ing idiots and the player they gave up on, terribad trade, you guys were wrong".

Get on with it people. It's over. The team has McJesus in the fold, is building depth at all corners of the org, and is looking to turn a corner. Time to come together. The vitriol between members of the same fanbase has become disgusting in the past 2 years and lead to me hop off online discussion forums altogether, it's actually taken away from mine and many other's ability to enjoy the game. MOVE THE fcuk ON.

[Updated on: Sun, 30 October 2016 12:43]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680377 is a reply to message #680281 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lew19 is currently offline Lew19
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I don't miss Hall one bit. What kind of effort is this anyways, in OT? Forearm shiver? Gimme a break.

https://www.nhl.com/video/anisimov-buries-overtime-winner/t- 282916606/c-45790803


See ya later sucker!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680378 is a reply to message #680373 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Pseudoreality wrote on Sun, 30 October 2016 11:00

Xombie wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 17:46

OK here's my view of the Hall trade. The same as others have allready said, but I'm going to make a car analogy. Similar to the Corvette analogy somebody posted in the Yakupov trade thread (I think).

So your in a racing leauge. You have a dope arse race car. The cars got a rad engine, but you got no tires, so the cars going nowhere. You win some unexpected lottery, and the prize is an even better engine, the best in the world!

So you ask the other teams for some tires. They all know you won the super engine. One team offers you four dependable good tires, but he wants your old, awesome engine. You know the tires aren't worth the engine, but you do the deal. It hurts to see the old engine doing great with its new car. Except your car is running great with your new engine, and the four tires you desperately needed. Your car is better than the teams that you traded with.


I've moved on. The Edmonton Oilers have traded much better players than Hall. It sucks when a star leaves your team. Recently they've left due to some drama scandal, and were happy to go. Hall left in a hockey trade, and was sad to go. Yet we try to make it a drama scandle?


The difference is a car only needs one engine. Hockey teams require more than one forward, particularly if your team has a tendency of having a lot of injuries. I know where you are getting at here, but its not a perfect analogy.

Hahaha yeah it might be obvious I'm not a car guy! Hall and other forwards could have been a part of the engine, not the whole thing!

Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680386 is a reply to message #680377 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Lew19 wrote on Sun, 30 October 2016 13:37

I don't miss Hall one bit. What kind of effort is this anyways, in OT? Forearm shiver? Gimme a break.

https://www.nhl.com/video/anisimov-buries-overtime-winner/t- 282916606/c-45790803


See ya later sucker!


Yeah it's pretty sad when even the Hawks announcers are bashing Hall for that carelessness within his own zone too

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #680400 is a reply to message #680356 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 16:44

mightyreasoner wrote on Sat, 29 October 2016 12:36

You know who isn't getting enough credit for the Oilers turnaround.

Hunter.

The team has a new identity this season, and it was really once Hunter donned the Oilers jersey that the team started turning it around.

Forget Larsson, Lucic, Russell, etc.

Team toughness, attitude, new identity = Hunter.


He's a mean cat alright.


Oh yeah.....I was wondering who the F MReasoner was talking about.
icon_lol

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #687757 is a reply to message #680400 ]
Tue, 28 February 2017 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ taylor-hall-on-the-edmonton-oilers-if-they-win-the-cup-ill-b e-choked

Very candid interview by Hall and Whitney. Some interesting dynamics and thoughts for sure.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #687835 is a reply to message #687757 ]
Tue, 28 February 2017 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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Gator21 wrote on Tue, 28 February 2017 12:04

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ taylor-hall-on-the-edmonton-oilers-if-they-win-the-cup-ill-b e-choked

Very candid interview by Hall and Whitney. Some interesting dynamics and thoughts for sure.


I listened to this on my commute home. So much interesting stuff. Here's a quick summary, but give it a listen anyway:

- Whitney is a huge goof.
- Hall said he was hoping for Boston to win the draft lottery in his draft year. He liked the city and saw an open LW spot.
- Hall admitted that the team needed better defensemen during his time with the Oilers.
- Whitney and Hall told this story: Glenn Anderson congratulates Hall at a bar after Hall's first NHL game winning goal. Glenn chirps and says something like "Congratulations. 65 more and you will tie me." to which Hall responds "Yeah congratulations on scoring the 4th goal in an 8-3 win in 1985 fifty seven times".
- Whitney and Hall both agreed that when Anderson was around after games, he was usually pretty rude and drunk after games. Hall said that he thinks Kevin Lowe eventually called Glenn and told him not to hang around the young kids anymore.
- Lots of bar stories...I imagine after 6 years you are going to have some bar stories, but this does reinforce the idea that they were bar stars. Hall and Whitney both tell a story about how after a road game, they would get off the plane late at night and try to get to a bar before last call.
- Hall said he would be choked if the Oilers won the cup.
- Whitney is pretty clear that he thinks the Old Boys Cup running the team is what drove it to the ground.

Overall, really interesting. It's not an interview, it's 3 guys goofing off, talking and laughing.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #687837 is a reply to message #687835 ]
Tue, 28 February 2017 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 28 February 2017 21:58

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 28 February 2017 12:04

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ taylor-hall-on-the-edmonton-oilers-if-they-win-the-cup-ill-b e-choked

Very candid interview by Hall and Whitney. Some interesting dynamics and thoughts for sure.


I listened to this on my commute home. So much interesting stuff. Here's a quick summary, but give it a listen anyway:

- Whitney is a huge goof.
- Hall said he was hoping for Boston to win the draft lottery in his draft year. He liked the city and saw an open LW spot.
- Hall admitted that the team needed better defensemen during his time with the Oilers.
- Whitney and Hall told this story: Glenn Anderson congratulates Hall at a bar after Hall's first NHL game winning goal. Glenn chirps and says something like "Congratulations. 65 more and you will tie me." to which Hall responds "Yeah congratulations on scoring the 4th goal in an 8-3 win in 1985 fifty seven times".
- Whitney and Hall both agreed that when Anderson was around after games, he was usually pretty rude and drunk after games. Hall said that he thinks Kevin Lowe eventually called Glenn and told him not to hang around the young kids anymore.
- Lots of bar stories...I imagine after 6 years you are going to have some bar stories, but this does reinforce the idea that they were bar stars. Hall and Whitney both tell a story about how after a road game, they would get off the plane late at night and try to get to a bar before last call.
- Hall said he would be choked if the Oilers won the cup.
- Whitney is pretty clear that he thinks the Old Boys Cup running the team is what drove it to the ground.

Overall, really interesting. It's not an interview, it's 3 guys goofing off, talking and laughing.


I posted this podcast in another thread, but after listening to it this morning I listened to a couple of the other Spittin' Chiclets podcasts. Hilarious. The one with Mike commodore is real good too

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690125 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Sun, 02 April 2017 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jones got some interesting comments out of Chia about this trade a few days ago:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/31/chiarelli-looks-back-o n-what-will-be-for-the-oilers

Quote:

When Chiarelli was hired, he talked about significantly upgrading in goal and getting bigger and tougher to play against up front. And when he made the Taylor Hall trade for Adam Larsson, indicated it was inspired by the need to be able to compete against Pacific Division teams.

“I remember saying that the moves we’re making will help us win the Pacific Division. Or maybe it was ‘come out of’ the Pacific Division,” Chiarelli recalled to your correspondent, looking back now.

Look at the numbers after Thursday night’s game.

The Oilers with the win are 16-5-3 in the Pacific and 29-10-6 against the West.

Hall wasn’t here, but he put the Oilers in the playoffs with a chance to do well.

“I’ll use a football analogy about it. Teams have successful running backs that come and go. You can replace them. But the guys who get drafted the highest are the offensive left tackles,” said Chiarelli said of most quarterbacks' blind side.. “You never hear about these guys. But look at any championship team, they always have a strong left side of the offensive line.

“It’s not a sexy position. You don’t know these guys. But it’s a vitally important cog in the team. I’m not saying Larsson is a left tackle. But we had a lot of forwards. There is one puck. It was the best fit and there was a high acquisition cost and it played into the division. You need that type of player to win this division.”

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690126 is a reply to message #690125 ]
Sun, 02 April 2017 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 April 2017 14:56

Jones got some interesting comments out of Chia about this trade a few days ago:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/31/chiarelli-looks-back-o n-what-will-be-for-the-oilers

Quote:

When Chiarelli was hired, he talked about significantly upgrading in goal and getting bigger and tougher to play against up front. And when he made the Taylor Hall trade for Adam Larsson, indicated it was inspired by the need to be able to compete against Pacific Division teams.

“I remember saying that the moves we’re making will help us win the Pacific Division. Or maybe it was ‘come out of’ the Pacific Division,” Chiarelli recalled to your correspondent, looking back now.

Look at the numbers after Thursday night’s game.

The Oilers with the win are 16-5-3 in the Pacific and 29-10-6 against the West.

Hall wasn’t here, but he put the Oilers in the playoffs with a chance to do well.

“I’ll use a football analogy about it. Teams have successful running backs that come and go. You can replace them. But the guys who get drafted the highest are the offensive left tackles,” said Chiarelli said of most quarterbacks' blind side.. “You never hear about these guys. But look at any championship team, they always have a strong left side of the offensive line.

“It’s not a sexy position. You don’t know these guys. But it’s a vitally important cog in the team. I’m not saying Larsson is a left tackle. But we had a lot of forwards. There is one puck. It was the best fit and there was a high acquisition cost and it played into the division. You need that type of player to win this division.”



The Oilers are a better TEAM after this trade. I've been saying it ever since it happened. I don't think I had ever posted saying that, maybe I had, but I believe the majority of this trade chatter was prior to my recent "I want to be involved on this site instead of just an outsider". I've loved Larsson as an Oiler. I've loved Chia as the Oilers GM. Yeah some moves have made me scratch my head (Reinhart... Yakupov) but overall, look what Chia has done here. Last season was in his own words an evaluation year to take stock of what he had to work with. Since that evaluation took place, we've seen a 27 point increase in the standings and a +73 improvement in +/-!!!!! With 4 games to go both those stats should see a further increase. It's unreal. It's exciting. It's a great time to be an Oilers fan. Thank you, Peter Chiarelli.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690138 is a reply to message #690126 ]
Sun, 02 April 2017 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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OilMJMOil wrote on Sun, 02 April 2017 15:18

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 April 2017 14:56

Jones got some interesting comments out of Chia about this trade a few days ago:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/31/chiarelli-looks-back-o n-what-will-be-for-the-oilers

Quote:

When Chiarelli was hired, he talked about significantly upgrading in goal and getting bigger and tougher to play against up front. And when he made the Taylor Hall trade for Adam Larsson, indicated it was inspired by the need to be able to compete against Pacific Division teams.

“I remember saying that the moves we’re making will help us win the Pacific Division. Or maybe it was ‘come out of’ the Pacific Division,” Chiarelli recalled to your correspondent, looking back now.

Look at the numbers after Thursday night’s game.

The Oilers with the win are 16-5-3 in the Pacific and 29-10-6 against the West.

Hall wasn’t here, but he put the Oilers in the playoffs with a chance to do well.

“I’ll use a football analogy about it. Teams have successful running backs that come and go. You can replace them. But the guys who get drafted the highest are the offensive left tackles,” said Chiarelli said of most quarterbacks' blind side.. “You never hear about these guys. But look at any championship team, they always have a strong left side of the offensive line.

“It’s not a sexy position. You don’t know these guys. But it’s a vitally important cog in the team. I’m not saying Larsson is a left tackle. But we had a lot of forwards. There is one puck. It was the best fit and there was a high acquisition cost and it played into the division. You need that type of player to win this division.”



The Oilers are a better TEAM after this trade. I've been saying it ever since it happened. I don't think I had ever posted saying that, maybe I had, but I believe the majority of this trade chatter was prior to my recent "I want to be involved on this site instead of just an outsider". I've loved Larsson as an Oiler. I've loved Chia as the Oilers GM. Yeah some moves have made me scratch my head (Reinhart... Yakupov) but overall, look what Chia has done here. Last season was in his own words an evaluation year to take stock of what he had to work with. Since that evaluation took place, we've seen a 27 point increase in the standings and a +73 improvement in +/-!!!!! With 4 games to go both those stats should see a further increase. It's unreal. It's exciting. It's a great time to be an Oilers fan. Thank you, Peter Chiarelli.


Failure to defend leads killed this team for years. We could score, but as soon as the other team cranked up their game, we couldn't handle it. Especially against western opponents. I complained some this season about how we seem to intentionally bottle up and not go for the kill in games with a lead, but there is no denying today that it worked a lot more than it failed, and we finally had the players that can pull that type of strategy off. And all the experience we got playing that way, could pay dividends in the playoffs this year and in the future. This has been a remarkable transformation of the team in the last couple years.

Chia deserves a lot of credit for the supporting cast he kept and added around McDavid. If by some miracle Ebs can figure out how to aim a shot again, we could be a very dangerous team in the playoffs. With McDavid/Drai we will be at least somewhat dangerous no matter what regardless, but that next level is gonna need some guys able to make the most of their limited opportunities in the lower lines.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690147 is a reply to message #690138 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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In my opinion, the definition of playoff type hockey is physical, grind it out, tight checking, not a lot of offensive chances, margin of error is small, where every mistake is huge. Since March 20th, a 2 week span, the Oilers have played 7 games. In those 7 games, the Oilers are 6-1. In those 7 games, the Oilers have played games with playoff type hockey 5 times. They played the Kings who were playing for their lives and play playoff hockey all the time. They won 2-0 & 2-1. The played the cup finalist and team near the top of the division the Sharks, they won 3-2. They played the Ducks who are near the top of the division have been in the playoffs for many years. They lost 4-3 in a game that Talbot wasn't very good and they won 3-2. I think if Talbot had of been decent, the Oilers win the other game.

The Oilers have learned how to close out games. They have learned how to play tight hockey where you need good goaltending, sound defense and you can't afford mistakes. In my opinion, if Hall was on the team and Larsson wasn't, the Oilers don't go 6-1 in the last 2 weeks. They don't sweep the Kings They don't beat the Kings 2-0 and 2-1 in must win games for the Kings. Maybe they split them. They don't beat the Sharks and they sure don't beat the Ducks who came in rolling and tops in the division. While I liked Hall and will always like him as a player, Hall would not be on the ice in the closing mins protecting a lead. While better defensively, Hall doesn't play sound, tight, mistake free hockey. On the flip side, while Larsson isn't the only reason, he's been a massive help for their defense being a stabilizing force on the back end and really helped with the emergence of Klefbom.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690149 is a reply to message #690147 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:29

In my opinion, the definition of playoff type hockey is physical, grind it out, tight checking, not a lot of offensive chances, margin of error is small, where every mistake is huge. Since March 20th, a 2 week span, the Oilers have played 7 games. In those 7 games, the Oilers are 6-1. In those 7 games, the Oilers have played games with playoff type hockey 5 times. They played the Kings who were playing for their lives and play playoff hockey all the time. They won 2-0 & 2-1. The played the cup finalist and team near the top of the division the Sharks, they won 3-2. They played the Ducks who are near the top of the division have been in the playoffs for many years. They lost 4-3 in a game that Talbot wasn't very good and they won 3-2. I think if Talbot had of been decent, the Oilers win the other game.

The Oilers have learned how to close out games. They have learned how to play tight hockey where you need good goaltending, sound defense and you can't afford mistakes. In my opinion, if Hall was on the team and Larsson wasn't, the Oilers don't go 6-1 in the last 2 weeks. They don't sweep the Kings They don't beat the Kings 2-0 and 2-1 in must win games for the Kings. Maybe they split them. They don't beat the Sharks and they sure don't beat the Ducks who came in rolling and tops in the division. While I liked Hall and will always like him as a player, Hall would not be on the ice in the closing mins protecting a lead. While better defensively, Hall doesn't play sound, tight, mistake free hockey. On the flip side, while Larsson isn't the only reason, he's been a massive help for their defense being a stabilizing force on the back end and really helped with the emergence of Klefbom.


Objection your honour: incredibly speculative and impossible to prove in any sense.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690153 is a reply to message #690149 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:29

In my opinion, the definition of playoff type hockey is physical, grind it out, tight checking, not a lot of offensive chances, margin of error is small, where every mistake is huge. Since March 20th, a 2 week span, the Oilers have played 7 games. In those 7 games, the Oilers are 6-1. In those 7 games, the Oilers have played games with playoff type hockey 5 times. They played the Kings who were playing for their lives and play playoff hockey all the time. They won 2-0 & 2-1. The played the cup finalist and team near the top of the division the Sharks, they won 3-2. They played the Ducks who are near the top of the division have been in the playoffs for many years. They lost 4-3 in a game that Talbot wasn't very good and they won 3-2. I think if Talbot had of been decent, the Oilers win the other game.

The Oilers have learned how to close out games. They have learned how to play tight hockey where you need good goaltending, sound defense and you can't afford mistakes. In my opinion, if Hall was on the team and Larsson wasn't, the Oilers don't go 6-1 in the last 2 weeks. They don't sweep the Kings They don't beat the Kings 2-0 and 2-1 in must win games for the Kings. Maybe they split them. They don't beat the Sharks and they sure don't beat the Ducks who came in rolling and tops in the division. While I liked Hall and will always like him as a player, Hall would not be on the ice in the closing mins protecting a lead. While better defensively, Hall doesn't play sound, tight, mistake free hockey. On the flip side, while Larsson isn't the only reason, he's been a massive help for their defense being a stabilizing force on the back end and really helped with the emergence of Klefbom.


Objection your honour: incredibly speculative and impossible to prove in any sense.

Hall's never played tight checking hockey. He's improved defensively but his knock has been and still he is gives up too many against. They put McDavid on the PK, they have McDavid on the ice to end games. I don't remember Hall killing a penalties very often if at all and I don't remember him being on the ice towards the end of games to close them out very often. He's never been a plus player and is a -7 for the Devils this season.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690154 is a reply to message #690153 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:43

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:29

In my opinion, the definition of playoff type hockey is physical, grind it out, tight checking, not a lot of offensive chances, margin of error is small, where every mistake is huge. Since March 20th, a 2 week span, the Oilers have played 7 games. In those 7 games, the Oilers are 6-1. In those 7 games, the Oilers have played games with playoff type hockey 5 times. They played the Kings who were playing for their lives and play playoff hockey all the time. They won 2-0 & 2-1. The played the cup finalist and team near the top of the division the Sharks, they won 3-2. They played the Ducks who are near the top of the division have been in the playoffs for many years. They lost 4-3 in a game that Talbot wasn't very good and they won 3-2. I think if Talbot had of been decent, the Oilers win the other game.

The Oilers have learned how to close out games. They have learned how to play tight hockey where you need good goaltending, sound defense and you can't afford mistakes. In my opinion, if Hall was on the team and Larsson wasn't, the Oilers don't go 6-1 in the last 2 weeks. They don't sweep the Kings They don't beat the Kings 2-0 and 2-1 in must win games for the Kings. Maybe they split them. They don't beat the Sharks and they sure don't beat the Ducks who came in rolling and tops in the division. While I liked Hall and will always like him as a player, Hall would not be on the ice in the closing mins protecting a lead. While better defensively, Hall doesn't play sound, tight, mistake free hockey. On the flip side, while Larsson isn't the only reason, he's been a massive help for their defense being a stabilizing force on the back end and really helped with the emergence of Klefbom.


Objection your honour: incredibly speculative and impossible to prove in any sense.

Hall's never played tight checking hockey. He's improved defensively but his knock has been and still he is gives up too many against. They put McDavid on the PK, they have McDavid on the ice to end games. I don't remember Hall killing a penalties very often if at all and I don't remember him being on the ice towards the end of games to close them out very often. He's never been a plus player and is a -7 for the Devils this season.


He actually HAS been a plus player. He was +5 in 2012-13. While he's mostly been in the negatives, it's important to acknowledge just how bad those teams were, and where he stacked up compared to the rest.

2010-11 -9 Team was -76. Even at -9, there were 12 Oilers with worse numbers.
2011-12 -3 Team was -27. Again middle of the pack. Best Oiler for +/-? Sam Gagner at +5!
2012-13 +5 Lockout year. Edmonton was -9. Crazy how close Krueger was. Hall 4th on team.
2013-14 -15 DERF!!! Team back to -67. Eight worse than Hall's ugly number. Krueger's work wasted.
2014-15 -1 Team an astounding -85. Hall was the best +/- on the team. Shocking that he was that close to even on a team that bad. Thanks again Dallas.
2015-16 -4 Team is still -42. Hall's number is slightly above average.

Hall has never been a penalty killer, but he didn't need to be, and if he was here this year, they wouldn't have used him as one either. We still would have had McDavid. McDavid is a generational player, and Hall is not, so it's ridiculous to compare them.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690155 is a reply to message #690154 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg is currently offline OilPeg
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Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:43

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:29

In my opinion, the definition of playoff type hockey is physical, grind it out, tight checking, not a lot of offensive chances, margin of error is small, where every mistake is huge. Since March 20th, a 2 week span, the Oilers have played 7 games. In those 7 games, the Oilers are 6-1. In those 7 games, the Oilers have played games with playoff type hockey 5 times. They played the Kings who were playing for their lives and play playoff hockey all the time. They won 2-0 & 2-1. The played the cup finalist and team near the top of the division the Sharks, they won 3-2. They played the Ducks who are near the top of the division have been in the playoffs for many years. They lost 4-3 in a game that Talbot wasn't very good and they won 3-2. I think if Talbot had of been decent, the Oilers win the other game.

The Oilers have learned how to close out games. They have learned how to play tight hockey where you need good goaltending, sound defense and you can't afford mistakes. In my opinion, if Hall was on the team and Larsson wasn't, the Oilers don't go 6-1 in the last 2 weeks. They don't sweep the Kings They don't beat the Kings 2-0 and 2-1 in must win games for the Kings. Maybe they split them. They don't beat the Sharks and they sure don't beat the Ducks who came in rolling and tops in the division. While I liked Hall and will always like him as a player, Hall would not be on the ice in the closing mins protecting a lead. While better defensively, Hall doesn't play sound, tight, mistake free hockey. On the flip side, while Larsson isn't the only reason, he's been a massive help for their defense being a stabilizing force on the back end and really helped with the emergence of Klefbom.


Objection your honour: incredibly speculative and impossible to prove in any sense.

Hall's never played tight checking hockey. He's improved defensively but his knock has been and still he is gives up too many against. They put McDavid on the PK, they have McDavid on the ice to end games. I don't remember Hall killing a penalties very often if at all and I don't remember him being on the ice towards the end of games to close them out very often. He's never been a plus player and is a -7 for the Devils this season.


He actually HAS been a plus player. He was +5 in 2012-13. While he's mostly been in the negatives, it's important to acknowledge just how bad those teams were, and where he stacked up compared to the rest.

2010-11 -9 Team was -76. Even at -9, there were 12 Oilers with worse numbers.
2011-12 -3 Team was -27. Again middle of the pack. Best Oiler for +/-? Sam Gagner at +5!
2012-13 +5 Lockout year. Edmonton was -9. Crazy how close Krueger was. Hall 4th on team.
2013-14 -15 DERF!!! Team back to -67. Eight worse than Hall's ugly number. Krueger's work wasted.
2014-15 -1 Team an astounding -85. Hall was the best +/- on the team. Shocking that he was that close to even on a team that bad. Thanks again Dallas.
2015-16 -4 Team is still -42. Hall's number is slightly above average.

Hall has never been a penalty killer, but he didn't need to be, and if he was here this year, they wouldn't have used him as one either. We still would have had McDavid. McDavid is a generational player, and Hall is not, so it's ridiculous to compare them.




Also, while not NHL, Hall does have back-to-back Memorial Cup MVPs on his resume. Can't win those without being capable of playoff hockey.

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 March 2021 18:49

Turris in the BOA will be like an ice cube in the Sahara.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690156 is a reply to message #690155 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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OilPeg wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 10:05

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:43

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:29

In my opinion, the definition of playoff type hockey is physical, grind it out, tight checking, not a lot of offensive chances, margin of error is small, where every mistake is huge. Since March 20th, a 2 week span, the Oilers have played 7 games. In those 7 games, the Oilers are 6-1. In those 7 games, the Oilers have played games with playoff type hockey 5 times. They played the Kings who were playing for their lives and play playoff hockey all the time. They won 2-0 & 2-1. The played the cup finalist and team near the top of the division the Sharks, they won 3-2. They played the Ducks who are near the top of the division have been in the playoffs for many years. They lost 4-3 in a game that Talbot wasn't very good and they won 3-2. I think if Talbot had of been decent, the Oilers win the other game.

The Oilers have learned how to close out games. They have learned how to play tight hockey where you need good goaltending, sound defense and you can't afford mistakes. In my opinion, if Hall was on the team and Larsson wasn't, the Oilers don't go 6-1 in the last 2 weeks. They don't sweep the Kings They don't beat the Kings 2-0 and 2-1 in must win games for the Kings. Maybe they split them. They don't beat the Sharks and they sure don't beat the Ducks who came in rolling and tops in the division. While I liked Hall and will always like him as a player, Hall would not be on the ice in the closing mins protecting a lead. While better defensively, Hall doesn't play sound, tight, mistake free hockey. On the flip side, while Larsson isn't the only reason, he's been a massive help for their defense being a stabilizing force on the back end and really helped with the emergence of Klefbom.


Objection your honour: incredibly speculative and impossible to prove in any sense.

Hall's never played tight checking hockey. He's improved defensively but his knock has been and still he is gives up too many against. They put McDavid on the PK, they have McDavid on the ice to end games. I don't remember Hall killing a penalties very often if at all and I don't remember him being on the ice towards the end of games to close them out very often. He's never been a plus player and is a -7 for the Devils this season.


He actually HAS been a plus player. He was +5 in 2012-13. While he's mostly been in the negatives, it's important to acknowledge just how bad those teams were, and where he stacked up compared to the rest.

2010-11 -9 Team was -76. Even at -9, there were 12 Oilers with worse numbers.
2011-12 -3 Team was -27. Again middle of the pack. Best Oiler for +/-? Sam Gagner at +5!
2012-13 +5 Lockout year. Edmonton was -9. Crazy how close Krueger was. Hall 4th on team.
2013-14 -15 DERF!!! Team back to -67. Eight worse than Hall's ugly number. Krueger's work wasted.
2014-15 -1 Team an astounding -85. Hall was the best +/- on the team. Shocking that he was that close to even on a team that bad. Thanks again Dallas.
2015-16 -4 Team is still -42. Hall's number is slightly above average.

Hall has never been a penalty killer, but he didn't need to be, and if he was here this year, they wouldn't have used him as one either. We still would have had McDavid. McDavid is a generational player, and Hall is not, so it's ridiculous to compare them.




Also, while not NHL, Hall does have back-to-back Memorial Cup MVPs on his resume. Can't win those without being capable of playoff hockey.


He was the alpha dog on those powerhouse teams. A power winger can dominate in junior. Attack attack attack, let your superior physical attributes dominate all the 18-20 year old kids that play mediocre defence.

He's been trying to do the same thing his whole career in the NHL. But is' not quite as easy there. Everyone has to play a team game. The D are all a few inches taller, 30 lbs heavier, play proper defence and have seen every kind of player coming down the wing on them.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690157 is a reply to message #690155 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Is this thread turning into a debate on whether or not Taylor Hall is a good hockey player?

Because that shouldn't be in question.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690158 is a reply to message #690154 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3764
Registered: January 2016
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Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:43

Adam wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:29

In my opinion, the definition of playoff type hockey is physical, grind it out, tight checking, not a lot of offensive chances, margin of error is small, where every mistake is huge. Since March 20th, a 2 week span, the Oilers have played 7 games. In those 7 games, the Oilers are 6-1. In those 7 games, the Oilers have played games with playoff type hockey 5 times. They played the Kings who were playing for their lives and play playoff hockey all the time. They won 2-0 & 2-1. The played the cup finalist and team near the top of the division the Sharks, they won 3-2. They played the Ducks who are near the top of the division have been in the playoffs for many years. They lost 4-3 in a game that Talbot wasn't very good and they won 3-2. I think if Talbot had of been decent, the Oilers win the other game.

The Oilers have learned how to close out games. They have learned how to play tight hockey where you need good goaltending, sound defense and you can't afford mistakes. In my opinion, if Hall was on the team and Larsson wasn't, the Oilers don't go 6-1 in the last 2 weeks. They don't sweep the Kings They don't beat the Kings 2-0 and 2-1 in must win games for the Kings. Maybe they split them. They don't beat the Sharks and they sure don't beat the Ducks who came in rolling and tops in the division. While I liked Hall and will always like him as a player, Hall would not be on the ice in the closing mins protecting a lead. While better defensively, Hall doesn't play sound, tight, mistake free hockey. On the flip side, while Larsson isn't the only reason, he's been a massive help for their defense being a stabilizing force on the back end and really helped with the emergence of Klefbom.


Objection your honour: incredibly speculative and impossible to prove in any sense.

Hall's never played tight checking hockey. He's improved defensively but his knock has been and still he is gives up too many against. They put McDavid on the PK, they have McDavid on the ice to end games. I don't remember Hall killing a penalties very often if at all and I don't remember him being on the ice towards the end of games to close them out very often. He's never been a plus player and is a -7 for the Devils this season.


He actually HAS been a plus player. He was +5 in 2012-13. While he's mostly been in the negatives, it's important to acknowledge just how bad those teams were, and where he stacked up compared to the rest.

2010-11 -9 Team was -76. Even at -9, there were 12 Oilers with worse numbers.
2011-12 -3 Team was -27. Again middle of the pack. Best Oiler for +/-? Sam Gagner at +5!
2012-13 +5 Lockout year. Edmonton was -9. Crazy how close Krueger was. Hall 4th on team.
2013-14 -15 DERF!!! Team back to -67. Eight worse than Hall's ugly number. Krueger's work wasted.
2014-15 -1 Team an astounding -85. Hall was the best +/- on the team. Shocking that he was that close to even on a team that bad. Thanks again Dallas.
2015-16 -4 Team is still -42. Hall's number is slightly above average.

Hall has never been a penalty killer, but he didn't need to be, and if he was here this year, they wouldn't have used him as one either. We still would have had McDavid. McDavid is a generational player, and Hall is not, so it's ridiculous to compare them.



You are going to count the lockout year? Come on. I like to look at WHOLE seasons.

Did you know that in that same 12-13 season. Yakupov scored 17 goals and had 31 pts in 48 games. Most of his goals were in the second half of that 48 games. So that must mean that Yak is easily a 25-30 goal man because he scored 17 goals in 12-13. Oh wait a minute.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #690159 is a reply to message #690158 ]
Mon, 03 April 2017 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6865
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 10:11


You are going to count the lockout year? Come on. I like to look at WHOLE seasons.

Did you know that in that same 12-13 season. Yakupov scored 17 goals and had 31 pts in 48 games. Most of his goals were in the second half of that 48 games. So that must mean that Yak is easily a 25-30 goal man because he scored 17 goals in 12-13. Oh wait a minute.


I counted all the years. It was a 48 game season, it's not like it was a 5 game sample.

And you're right. Ralph Krueger looks like a pretty capable coach who had the team on a strong upwards trajectory. He tapped in to his players to get a lot out of a lot of pretty young guys.

Hall was over a point per game, Yakupov led all rookies in scoring. Schultz made the all-rookie team. Sam Gagner had his best season ever. Devan Dubnyk looked like he'd really taken a step forward in goal.

And the team's goal differential of only -9 after those 48 games was pretty darn good. Looks like a team on the cusp...all they need to do is stay the course and ride the wave up, right?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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