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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674026 is a reply to message #674024 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 9776
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
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And then, if the team starts to win, people will say, "well, we would have been even BETTER if we didn't trade Hall and we traded X for X" and so on. And then the tables have turned, because all those made up scenarios can't be proved to have been possible! So, then the arguments get all muddled and the Hall trade becomes a distant memory.

Again, this is only possible if we actually start to win! :P

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674027 is a reply to message #674011 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjayd2 is currently offline rjayd2
Messages: 20
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton
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Just wanted to say that as an avid lurker of both this site and hfboards, I am truly shocked at the over-the-top negative reactions coming from what I considered a more knowledgable and mature forum of posters. It's actually embarrassing (yet thoroughly entertaining) to read some of the blatant fanboy-ism and lack of perspective coming from some of the know-it-alls on here.

With that said props, to those rational individuals capable of seeing this trade, while not perfect, as a positive move we should be ok with and optimistic about. Remember how literally EVERY oilers fan in the world was moaning over our need for a meaningful upgrade to our rhd? Well we got one and suddenly it's the worst thing ever to happen. Sorry to those that think so but Taylor Hall is not in fact an irreplaceable franchise player -- he's a quality player but he's not without his faults and am perfectly fine with him gone if that's what was required to get us the piece we need far more than him.

Based on the reactions of (rational/knowlegable) devils fans we just landed ourselves a quality defenseman-- young, right handed and on a very good contract at that -- for the price of a good but replaceable and far less coveted piece (if you disagree please find me the gm that would place his preference on wingers before centers and defensemen). Arguably yes we "lost" the trade at present based on perceived value but I believe based on the important need we just helped to fill + cap space for future moves I don't quite understand how anyone can not see this as an overall win for this organization and a step in the right direction.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674029 is a reply to message #674023 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)



Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...


I will. I'm assuming those are already in the bag, more or less.

Bottom line is it was incredibly terrible asset management. The Oilers took an elite player and traded him for a decent one. They traded at .60 cents on the dollar. The trade they made today was awful, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in free agency on Friday.

In short, a bad trade of the player who, until last year, was our best player. No matter how much the media and Oilers spin this to say it was like "Larsson + Lucic" for Hall, there is no causation or correlation. I think they could have had both and still gotten a defenseman of the Larsson calibre.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 18:57]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674030 is a reply to message #674024 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)



Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...


This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.


What really burns is you have a guy in Hall that wanted to be an Oiler for life, you can tell by how bummed he is about it, the guy gave everything he had, nightly, through all the crap years when most star players want out of the franchise, or give up.

You can't dismiss the value of that loyalty to a franchise, now we have a generic NHL defenseman, who Chiarelli says he "believes" in. What I can't believe is he didn't at least get any draft picks thrown in there. Weak.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674031 is a reply to message #674029 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:53

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)



Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...


I will. I'm assuming those are already in the bag, more or less.

Bottom line is it was incredibly terrible asset management. The Oilers took an elite player and traded him for a decent one. They traded at .60 cents on the dollar. The trade they made today was awful, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in free agency on Friday.


No truer words.
They could have gotten Hamonic + from Islanders just a few months ago.

And you could have waited over the summer. this whole exercise looks and smells like a panic move done in haste.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674032 is a reply to message #674023 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen is currently offline Suomalainen
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So I went over to the Flames' board and I'd say the majority aren't happy in the thread there, as they see this as improvement.

I know those miscreants have the hate-on for Hall by thinking he's got low hockey sense and is one-dimensional, but I thought they'd be celebrating.

97.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674033 is a reply to message #674032 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove is currently offline vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton
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Suomalainen wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:55

So I went over to the Flames' board and I'd say the majority aren't happy in the thread there, as they see this as improvement.

I know those miscreants have the hate-on for Hall by thinking he's got low hockey sense and is one-dimensional, but I thought they'd be celebrating.


I genuinely think we're a better team overall, or will be once the other pieces fall (because if Chiarelli made this trade without having Lucic and Demers locked up, hoooo boy, I'll be the first person riding him out of here on a rail).

But in isolation, this was a trade we didn't win, because we didn't get value for our player.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674035 is a reply to message #674024 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjayd2 is currently offline rjayd2
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)



Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...


This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.


Exactly -- becoming a better team is all should matter not the names of the back of the sweaters.

And on that note I cringe at the thought of this fan base mercilessly piling on Larsson because of their hurt feelings of losing their man crush Hall. This guy deserves our full support and every ounce of encouragement possible. If anyone or someone you know has any active plans to hate on (ie boo at the games etc) possibly our most important acquisition in recent memory then you're a selfish, petty imbecile and not a true fan of the team.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674036 is a reply to message #674035 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)



Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...


This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.


Exactly -- becoming a better team is all should matter not the names of the back of the sweaters.

And on that note I cringe at the thought of this fan base mercilessly piling on Larsson because of their hurt feelings of losing their man crush Hall. This guy deserves our full support and every ounce of encouragement possible. If anyone or someone you know has any active plans to hate on (ie boo at the games etc) possibly our most important acquisition in recent memory then you're a selfish, petty imbecile and not a true fan of the team.



I also predict it will be no later than Oct 15 before we get a 'Hall finds redemption ....' thread because Hall scored 2 points in a game.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674037 is a reply to message #674025 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
honkerhitter is currently offline honkerhitter
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Despite this trade, I do not believe Lucic will help this team one bit. Other then holding out for a ransom of 7 mil plus, probly over to long of a term . He has his best years behind him and is a sprained ankle away from bring a Nikitn .
His ego isn't a locker room winner either( i guess that could be said for lots of guys) .
This deal has nothing to do with Milan this is straight up one for one and should be judged at face value. FAIL on all points.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674038 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Scott Cullen article on trade.

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-oilers-don-t-get-ne arly-enough-for-hall-1.517957
Quote:

The Devils Get: LW Taylor Hall
Hall, 24, has been one of the best offensive wingers in the league. Not in a, “Hey, he’s pretty good,” kind of way, but more like, “Wow, this guy is a superstar!” Over the past four seasons, here are the leaders in points per 60 during 5-on-5 play:

TOP 5-ON-5 SCORERS, 2012-2013 TO 2015-2016
PLAYER TEAM POS PTS/60
Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh C 2.71
Jamie Benn Dallas LW 2.54
Taylor Hall Edmonton LW 2.49
Ryan Getzlaf Anaheim C 2.42
Vladimir Tarasenko St. Louis RW 2.42
Tyler Seguin Dallas C 2.41
Patrick Kane Chicago RW 2.41
Corey Perry Anaheim RW 2.36
Matt Duchene Colorado C 2.32
Rick Nash N.Y. Rangers LW 2.31

Keep in mind, that Hall put up these numbers on a team that controlled less than 47% of 5-on-5 shot attempts during that four-year period, so putting up elite scoring numbers in that situation is remarkable.
In New Jersey, Hall is an instant upgrade for the league’s lowest-scoring team last season. He was a junior linemate of current Devils centre Adam Henrique, and Henrique is coming off a season in which he scored a career-high 30 goals and 50 points. While the Devils lack great offensive talent, they have some pieces to complement Hall, including Henrique, Mike Cammalleri and Kyle Palmieri.
Signed for a $6-million cap hit, Hall is under contract for four more seasons and he’ll be a cornerstone piece for the Devils as they try to get into playoff contention.
The Devils will need to find some help on the blueline, as it was already a relatively thin group, but can likely look to Damon Severson to take on a bigger role on the right side next season now that Larsson is gone.

The Oilers Get: D Adam Larsson
Larsson is a 23-year-old blueliner who struggled to fit in after he was taken with the fourth overall pick in the 2011 Draft, but then started getting more significant ice time part way through the 2014-2015 season.
He’s not a big scorer, managing a career-high 24 points in 64 games in 2014-2015, and has been a mediocre possession player.
Admittedly, Larsson has taken on tougher assignments while partnered with Andy Greene, but that duo was buried last season, with the Devils controlling just 43.8% of 5-on-5 shot attempts when they were partners.
In Edmonton, the Oilers will need Larsson to play big minutes. He can play the right side, alongside Oskar Klefbom, on Edmonton’s top pair, which ought to improve Edmonton’s defence (it’s hard to get worse, right?). It’s just difficult to imagine how it will improve the team overall.
Larsson is signed for five more seasons, at a cap hit of $4,166,666. There is a little cost savings when compared to Hall’s contract, but nowhere close to addressing the relative impact that each player has on the game.

Verdict: This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674039 is a reply to message #674037 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scotiaoiler is currently offline scotiaoiler
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Chiarelli has just gave Lucic all the leverage in a deal now that he has traded Hall. He can now say he will sign someplace else unless he gets 7mill over 7 and old Peter will be stuck cause now he has traded Hall and he will look even dumber in the next few days when he overpays and over terms Lucic. I'm on board if we don't make the play-offs this year the PC should be fired. Think he will find it hard to get work if he is fired from the Oilers. Those looking on the bright side shoulf look at reality and realize we made one of the worst trades in the last 20 years. We don't make the play-offs this year we are the worst team in NHL history. 11 years without.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674040 is a reply to message #674037 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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honkerhitter wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:16

Despite this trade, I do not believe Lucic will help this team one bit. Other then holding out for a ransom of 7 mil plus, probly over to long of a term . He has his best years behind him and is a sprained ankle away from bring a Nikitn .
His ego isn't a locker room winner either( i guess that could be said for lots of guys) .
This deal has nothing to do with Milan this is straight up one for one and should be judged at face value. FAIL on all points.


That'll be the icing, clear all the room to land Lucic, and he doesn't measure up to Oiler management expectations, or beliefs, you not only lose huge cap space, you lost a franchise asset in Hall as well.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674041 is a reply to message #674038 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfafrog is currently offline halfafrog
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Larsson isn't exactly a dog. He isn't second paring either it doesn't look like. We really have to wait and see. You can't measure chemistry either. Some have said he is a lot like Nick Lidstrom and I can certainly live with 75% of that.

http://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2016/2/12/10974744/new-top- dog-adam-larsson

http://lowetide.ca/2016/06/29/adam-larsson/

So this is what hope feels like?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674042 is a reply to message #674038 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjayd2 is currently offline rjayd2
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:23

Scott Cullen article on trade.

This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.
[/quote]

Lol such ridiculous hyperbole spewing from this trade. Both teams addressing glaring needs hardly qualifies as a "landslide win" icon_rolleyes

The Taylor Hall fanboy-ism runs deep! Even among media pundits!

icon_lol

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674043 is a reply to message #674041 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChasinStanley is currently offline ChasinStanley
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people are all over his points total but look at his +/- +15 on a team that was -24. He's also never been on the PP and has not had the weapons we have to pass to. if he can get the puck up and out he doesn't need to be getting points from rushing it up the ice or been set up on the point all night. I'll be much happier not seeing a firedrill in the Edmonton end every time the opposition crosses the blue line that Hall cutting to the outside and getting knocked over.

Renaissance 2015

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674044 is a reply to message #674043 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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ChasinStanley wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:42

people are all over his points total but look at his +/- +15 on a team that was -24. He's also never been on the PP and has not had the weapons we have to pass to. if he can get the puck up and out he doesn't need to be getting points from rushing it up the ice or been set up on the point all night. I'll be much happier not seeing a firedrill in the Edmonton end every time the opposition crosses the blue line that Hall cutting to the outside and getting knocked over.


Look at his d-partner!

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674045 is a reply to message #674038 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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If you're curious about how easy NJ coaches made it for Larsson to get a good Corsi %, here is a list of D that played at least 1000 mins last season, sorted by their % of defensive zone starts:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=20 1516&sit=5v5&pos=defense&minutes=1000&teamid =0&type=corsi&sort=DZPCT&sortdir=ASC

Larsson and Greene are dead last by a pretty large margin. And yet the kid still managed to be +15 on a -24 goal differential team.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674046 is a reply to message #674044 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:46

ChasinStanley wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:42

people are all over his points total but look at his +/- +15 on a team that was -24. He's also never been on the PP and has not had the weapons we have to pass to. if he can get the puck up and out he doesn't need to be getting points from rushing it up the ice or been set up on the point all night. I'll be much happier not seeing a firedrill in the Edmonton end every time the opposition crosses the blue line that Hall cutting to the outside and getting knocked over.


Look at his d-partner!


Looking at the stats, he outperformed his D partner. Greene was worse without Larsson last season. Greene is getting a bit old now, not surprised he would be slowing down.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674047 is a reply to message #673992 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boniman is currently offline Boniman
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halfafrog wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:16

I'm definitely in the minority but I like the trade.

a) This is McDavid's team. Not Hall's. That failed experiment ended last year.

b) Hall is older than Larsson, and D men take longer to develop

c) Wingers. I'm not a GM but if I was, wingers come after centers and D men. A strong center is my #1 priority and I want 3-4 strong centers if possible. I think we have 3 centers we can keep for quite a while. Centers play more D, and O and have to work very hard at both ends. We improved our D here and we kept 3 great centers.

d) How many playoff games has what some are calling the best left wing in hockey played? oh yeah, 0. Larsson has played 28.....

e) Larsson has played in the Stanley Cup Finals. That's right. More games than the entire core, if not more than all of last years team.

f) I like the 2 Swedes on D, Klefbom (may he stay healthy) and Larsson. I think thats a big improvement over last years team if they hopefully both are healthy all year.

g) This opens up cap room.

h) I was never sold on Hall's hockey sense so much as his raw talent. Though I liked Hall over Seguin early in his career, in retrospect Seguin seemed to mature and I would rather have had the center the last few years.

i) the little clique. Great that Hall thought he was the second coming of Bobby Hull but if you aren't a leader, how does that help the team? Why did Yaks always feel on the outside? Its not exactly news. A real leader makes everyone feel they are part fo the team. Note, I didn't say Hall was the issue, I said a real leader makes everyone feel welcomed and he should have gone out of his way if public perception pointed otherwise to prove it wasn't the case.

j) what has this core done/won? Nothing. Enough said. It needed to be broken up, including the so called hub of it all. Regardless of talent level.

k) This is McDavid's team. Especially not that Hall is gone.

l) Right handed D men are like finding a unicorn at the Vostok Research Station. A rare find indeed.

m) The cap space helps us fill out a more well rounded team.

n) Lets see how this team looks in the fall.

In the end, are we worse than the team that finished 30th, 29th, and what peaked at 26th or something with Hall leading the team....to nowhere? Change was needed.


I agree. We were spinning our tires.


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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674048 is a reply to message #673860 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ryanc182 is currently offline ryanc182
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I was joking...

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674049 is a reply to message #674035 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP is currently offline bigEfromGP
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rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)



Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...


This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.


Exactly -- becoming a better team is all should matter not the names of the back of the sweaters.

And on that note I cringe at the thought of this fan base mercilessly piling on Larsson because of their hurt feelings of losing their man crush Hall. This guy deserves our full support and every ounce of encouragement possible. If anyone or someone you know has any active plans to hate on (ie boo at the games etc) possibly our most important acquisition in recent memory then you're a selfish, petty imbecile and not a true fan of the team.


Most important acquisition in recent history? What next, you'll proclaim a future Norris winner?

Firstly, how anyone could say that about Larsson in the same week the Oilers got Pulujarvi is beyond me. Secondly, if Larsson is your most important acquisition, then your team ain't making the playoffs.

I see there is still some pails of Koolaid kicking around....

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674050 is a reply to message #673930 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ryanc182 is currently offline ryanc182
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I'm not trying to take away from Halls skill set. I'm just saying plain and simple with no "homer" views, his last two seasons have been lacklustre in regards to other years.. You can always hope that form returns, but what if it doesn't? What if he continuously puts up 60 and is often injured? What's your return then?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674051 is a reply to message #674042 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:39

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:23

Scott Cullen article on trade.

This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.


Lol such ridiculous hyperbole spewing from this trade. Both teams addressing glaring needs hardly qualifies as a "landslide win" icon_rolleyes

The Taylor Hall fanboy-ism runs deep! Even among media pundits!

icon_lol


Cullen backed his assessment with stats. Top 3 forward 5v5 in the NHL compared to a question mark and you attribute negativity to the trade to fanboyism and ridiculous hyperbole. rofl

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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674052 is a reply to message #674045 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:49

If you're curious about how easy NJ coaches made it for Larsson to get a good Corsi %, here is a list of D that played at least 1000 mins last season, sorted by their % of defensive zone starts:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=20 1516&sit=5v5&pos=defense&minutes=1000&teamid =0&type=corsi&sort=DZPCT&sortdir=ASC

Larsson and Greene are dead last by a pretty large margin. And yet the kid still managed to be +15 on a -24 goal differential team.


Just to add, now look at the same list and sorted by their Corsi Against per 60 minutes.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=20 1516&sit=5v5&pos=defense&minutes=1000&teamid =0&type=corsi&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

Larsson is 11th best of the group with double the amount of defensive zone starts through the year than some of the guys ahead of him, and at least 174 more defensive zone starts than the closest guy (Doughty).

The reason for his 44.8% Corsi% is not being poor defensively, it's because he's out there with not so great players and he's always starting in his own bloody zone, hehe.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674053 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674054 is a reply to message #674053 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


Before today, had anyone ever said that though?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674055 is a reply to message #673979 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.


Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.


This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.


I don't know. I think in 6 months we will be much more over this trade than we are now. I would never dispute that we didn't get fair value, but the Oilers are a better team now and we will win more because of this trade. And we'll be even better if we do sign Lucic (ignoring cap implications for the sake of argument ;) )

It sucks, and I don't like how Chia went about it and there may have been many better ways to do it, but filling that black hole in the lineup was absolutely necessary for the Oilers to not be terrible again. We traded from an area of strength to fill an area that had a big fat 0 beside it.


How can you say the Oilers will win more now because of adding Larson? I don't think you can. They would have won more anyway with a healthy, and another year older, defense corp. Plus adding Puljujarvi, and potentially Lucic. That forward lineup was incredible. Now other teams can focus entirely on McD's line, before they had Hall to contend with driving another line. He partially plugged one hole, and opened another gaping one.

Chiarelli basing his management strategy on a lot of hopes and prayers. Brutal.
Even if Larson does improve, Chiarelli doesn't know that, can't know that, he took a big risk when none was required. Those types of off the cuff management decisions are reminiscent of the worst GM's that have gone through this league. Ask yourself, if Lou Lamarello was Oiler GM, do you think he trades Hall for so little, or at all?


Give Chiarelli more time. I think he's about to thin the team out at center as well, and roll with 1 sophomore center and 1 who's basically a sophomore center in the top 6. RNH for Dumba, or more likely, RNH + for Dumba? Meanwhile, the $6 million contract that probably SHOULD have been traded will still be here.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674057 is a reply to message #674053 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


I have a feeling that Chia values Nuge more than Hall.

Of course a Nuge for Dumba trade would blow that theory out of the water and send it flying right into the sun!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674058 is a reply to message #674054 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Team Dean is currently offline Team Dean
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


Before today, had anyone ever said that though?


Oh that is so sad. So sad. I have to say, this is worse than the Gretzky trade. At least we got SOMETHING for Gretzky. This one was just a total gift to NJ. An absolutely stupid, dumb dumb gift to another team.

Thanks Chia.

Fire Chia.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674059 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Today is the like the day you realize that you've been wasting your time on the girl you've been dating forever. She's just not as good looking as you thought she was, she only ever hurts you (over and over) and you're pretty sure she's still dating that dickhead Kevin on the side.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674060 is a reply to message #674042 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy is currently offline philly boy
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rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:39

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:23

Scott Cullen article on trade.

This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.



Lol such ridiculous hyperbole spewing from this trade. Both teams addressing glaring needs hardly qualifies as a "landslide win" icon_rolleyes

The Taylor Hall fanboy-ism runs deep! Even among media pundits!

icon_lol [/quote]

Him & Ebs have been as close to bulletproof by the media in the city since day 1.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674061 is a reply to message #674057 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Team Dean is currently offline Team Dean
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


I have a feeling that Chia values Nuge more than Hall.

Of course a Nuge for Dumba trade would blow that theory out of the water and send it flying right into the sun!


I think this one is prophetic. What do we need now? A big shot on the pp. Dumba.

That will make 2 idiotic trades in one summer. Thanks Chia.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674062 is a reply to message #674061 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


I have a feeling that Chia values Nuge more than Hall.

Of course a Nuge for Dumba trade would blow that theory out of the water and send it flying right into the sun!


I think this one is prophetic. What do we need now? A big shot on the pp. Dumba.

That will make 2 idiotic trades in one summer. Thanks Chia.


Dumba is awful. I watched him in the world championships and was actually hoping we don't trade for him. Davidson is better than him. Lose RNH for a guy we'll be trying unload in a year.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674063 is a reply to message #674053 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
honkerhitter is currently offline honkerhitter
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...

Ya cause we were so deep down the middle then???
For the record on the Tyler / Taylor sweepstakes I was in the camp of drafting centers and acquiring wingers. If you look at the last couple years they are still a draw . Once Taylor was taking I supported him being an Oiler all the way , he's taken the brunt of negative connotations since coming here. Some deserved , alot of them not . Anyone that denies him of that is not an oilers fan .

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674064 is a reply to message #674058 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:38

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


Before today, had anyone ever said that though?


Oh that is so sad. So sad. I have to say, this is worse than the Gretzky trade. At least we got SOMETHING for Gretzky. This one was just a total gift to NJ. An absolutely stupid, dumb dumb gift to another team.

Thanks Chia.

Fire Chia.


Okay, hold on. This is an awful trade. But it is not Gretzky awful.

Both unnecessary. Both well below what we should have gotten. But while there is a large gap between Hall and RNH/Eberle, there is gulf between McDavid and everyone else. That's what the Gretzky trade would have been like.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674065 is a reply to message #674051 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjayd2 is currently offline rjayd2
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:06

rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:39

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:23

Scott Cullen article on trade.

This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.


Lol such ridiculous hyperbole spewing from this trade. Both teams addressing glaring needs hardly qualifies as a "landslide win" icon_rolleyes

The Taylor Hall fanboy-ism runs deep! Even among media pundits!

icon_lol


Cullen backed his assessment with stats. Top 3 forward 5v5 in the NHL compared to a question mark and you attribute negativity to the trade to fanboyism and ridiculous hyperbole. rofl



Take a look at the links halfafrog posted back a few. Plenty of statistics and evidence to support that Larsson is an emerging top pair defensemen. Even if he doesn't improve at all from this point he still makes our team better than having Hall on it. Or are you really going to argue a good LW is more impactful and valuable to an NHL team than a good RHD?...

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674066 is a reply to message #674064 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjayd2 is currently offline rjayd2
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:53

Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:38

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


Before today, had anyone ever said that though?


Oh that is so sad. So sad. I have to say, this is worse than the Gretzky trade. At least we got SOMETHING for Gretzky. This one was just a total gift to NJ. An absolutely stupid, dumb dumb gift to another team.

Thanks Chia.

Fire Chia.


Okay, hold on. This is an awful trade. But it is not Gretzky awful.

Both unnecessary. Both well below what we should have gotten. But while there is a large gap between Hall and RNH/Eberle, there is gulf between McDavid and everyone else. That's what the Gretzky trade would have been like.



You guys are acting as if it WAS McDavid that got traded...


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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674069 is a reply to message #674065 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:58

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:06

rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:39

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:23

Scott Cullen article on trade.

This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.


Lol such ridiculous hyperbole spewing from this trade. Both teams addressing glaring needs hardly qualifies as a "landslide win" icon_rolleyes

The Taylor Hall fanboy-ism runs deep! Even among media pundits!

icon_lol


Cullen backed his assessment with stats. Top 3 forward 5v5 in the NHL compared to a question mark and you attribute negativity to the trade to fanboyism and ridiculous hyperbole. rofl



Take a look at the links halfafrog posted back a few. Plenty of statistics and evidence to support that Larsson is an emerging top pair defensemen. Even if he doesn't improve at all from this point he still makes our team better than having Hall on it. Or are you really going to argue a good LW is more impactful and valuable to an NHL team than a good RHD?...



You're talking about a GREAT LW and a pretty middling RHD prospect. He's got a good pedigree, but you'll remember, we have another former 4th overall defensive prospect in our lineup. It doesn't always amount to much.

We dramatically overpaid for a guy who's unlikely to cover the bet his new GM just made on him. That's a big, big problem.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674070 is a reply to message #674066 ]
Wed, 29 June 2016 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:59

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:53

Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:38

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 20:08

We probably should have taken Larsson instead of Nugent-Hopkins in 2011...


Before today, had anyone ever said that though?


Oh that is so sad. So sad. I have to say, this is worse than the Gretzky trade. At least we got SOMETHING for Gretzky. This one was just a total gift to NJ. An absolutely stupid, dumb dumb gift to another team.

Thanks Chia.

Fire Chia.


Okay, hold on. This is an awful trade. But it is not Gretzky awful.

Both unnecessary. Both well below what we should have gotten. But while there is a large gap between Hall and RNH/Eberle, there is gulf between McDavid and everyone else. That's what the Gretzky trade would have been like.



You guys are acting as if it WAS McDavid that got traded...



It's still a big deal. We were one of the lowest scoring teams in the league last year, and the one consistent offensive producer over the last got dealt for a low return. A guy with 9 NHL goals.

We haven't seen Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, or Draisaitl drive offense on a line. Lucic doesn't. Yakupov and Pouliot and Maroon don't. We have a lot of complimentary players, but trading Hall really hurts the Oilers scoring depth and options. It's pretty easy for the Kings to decide which line to match Kopitar up against now.

Larsson is a great add, but the cost was all wrong to get him, and it'll hurt the Oilers. Absolutely it will.

Personally, I would have preferred the Subban deal that was supposedly out there. And if Hall was packaged as part of a deal for Subban, that would have been much easier to digest.

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