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Oilers » Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673918 is a reply to message #673916 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:20

Kr55
Messages: 9784
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:17

Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

He would need to be the Canucks GM for that one now :)

2010 NHL Draft Top 6:

1. Taylor Hall, EDM: Traded to NJ 6/29/16
2. Tyler Seguin, BOS: Traded to DAL 7/4/13
3. Erik Gudbranson, FLA: Traded to VAN 5/25/16
4. Ryan Johansen, CBJ: Traded to NSH 1/6/16
5. Nino Niederreiter, NYI: Traded to MIN 6/30/13
6. Brett Connolly, TB: Traded to BOS 3/2/15

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673920 is a reply to message #673916 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:22

OilPeg
Messages: 70
Registered: December 2010
Location: Winnipeg

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Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:17

Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

Gudbranson got traded to Vancouver a few weeks ago, he's already in trouble.

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 March 2021 18:49

Turris in the BOA will be like an ice cube in the Sahara.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673921 is a reply to message #673920 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:23

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

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OilPeg wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:22

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:17

Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

Gudbranson got traded to Vancouver a few weeks ago, he's already in trouble.

I don't care if it's just a rumour, I will always believe in my heart of hearts that Lucic told Vancouver he didn't want to sign there because they had no prospects and no hope.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673922 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

smyth260
Messages: 958
Registered: November 2007

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Is it too soon to say fire Chiarelli?

He seems to have a good understanding of contract negotiations, but he is sure awful at getting fair value with trades. Larsson better be good because this is not a trade that you recover from. Reinhart looks more awful as days go by.

So we had a left winger who had lots of great hockey to play, and now we will overpay for a winger who has maybe 4 years of lesser hockey to play.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 15:39]

Clean house or bust

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673923 is a reply to message #673916 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

Lesterpolyester
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2006
Location: Saskatoon

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I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673926 is a reply to message #673922 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:27

MJ
Messages: 246
Registered: November 1997
Location: Victoria

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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:24

Is it too soon to say fire Chiarelli?

If we're out of any reasonable chance of playoffs by the end of November yet again, I'm on that bandwagon.

If we still have a shot in January, that's new territory.

If we're still in the running in March but miss, I'm ok with him and his moves.

For now I'll be as patient as Tambo. icon_cool

icon_cool

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673927 is a reply to message #673922 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

ryanc182
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Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

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I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think Taylor Hall is a franchise player. He is a very good player, but not franchise.

I don't love the trade, but I also don't hate it. The last few seasons Hall has been very mediocre on a bad Oilers team. I wish him success in NJ, but I'd temper expectations there as he'll have very little help.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673928 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Kr55
Messages: 9784
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673929 is a reply to message #673927 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Lesterpolyester
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2006
Location: Saskatoon

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ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think Taylor Hall is a franchise player. He is a very good player, but not franchise.

I don't love the trade, but I also don't hate it. The last few seasons Hall has been very mediocre on a bad Oilers team. I wish him success in NJ, but I'd temper expectations there as he'll have very little help.

Agreed!

rock

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673930 is a reply to message #673895 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:29

TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit

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ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

Taylor Hall is a great player no doubt. Unless Larsson completely lays an egg, this helps us fill a void.

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

To play devils advocate, to me, Hall is not one of the top LW in the game. His exclusion from the Olympics and the World Cup of Hockey helps that argument. In the last two years, Hall has seen a decline. He only played 53 games 2 years ago with 38 points. Last year a full 82 and only 65 points. He is not irreplaceable.

That being said, I hope he scores 80+ this year, but I don't think he'll do it with the Devils.

Thank you for everything Taylor. Enjoy the Eastern Conference and no longer being run through the boards nightly!

Saying Hall has seen a decline is kind of being ignorant to the fact that the team went through a coaching change between this and last year. He is coming off a season where he was injured for most of it. Even with that being said it isn't like the league is very high scoring. There were 2 guys who finished ahead of Hall in points that were younger and 4 that were his age. He is still young in comparison to the top scorers of the league but is still finishing right outside the top 20. He is only going to get better and that is why this was a really bad trade.

Still you are right the trade fills a need...but don't sell Hall short just to make the trade look better. He is one of the top LWs in the league just because he wasn't picked by Canada may have a lot more to do with that he played on a losing team.

Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18

The future looks bright...

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673931 is a reply to message #673928 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3764
Registered: January 2016

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673933 is a reply to message #673931 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:40

Kr55
Messages: 9784
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

I think his potential is kind of hidden by how he's been used and his team situation the last 2 years. You leave a guy at 22 and 23 to just be stuck starting in his own end all night against the best players on a team with very little offensive talent, what kind of production do you expect him to get? Not sure how he ended up +15 on a team with a -24 goal differential while playing all the hardest minutes.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673934 is a reply to message #673933 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:43

NZ Oiler Fan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

I think his potential is kind of hidden by how he's been used and his team situation the last 2 years. You leave a guy at 22 and 23 to just be stuck starting in his own end all night against the best players on a team with very little offensive talent, what kind of production do you expect him to get? Not sure how he ended up +15 on a team with a -24 goal differential while playing all the hardest minutes.

Kinda like Nuge here.
People complaining that he's not putting up the points he was previously when he's been put in a position where he has to focus on defensive play first.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673935 is a reply to message #673923 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

K.McC#24
Messages: 2827
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Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673936 is a reply to message #673931 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:50

Adam
Messages: 6866
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

I don't like the suggestion that someone is something that they've never been.

We did this with Peca. Talked about how much he would score as a first line center because he'd been a good scorer in a depth role. Don't bank on what someone might possibly do in a situation they've never been in. Work on the worst case scenario that what you see is what you get.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673937 is a reply to message #673928 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:50

Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Well, at least there's one positive for today - Chiarelli didn't say he was a Norris contender...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673938 is a reply to message #673934 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:52

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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I listened to Hall talking to the Devils media. Clearly disappointed and does not sound happy about the trade. One comment I didn't like about what he said was he felt slighted by the trade and makes it sound like he was screwed. Slighted?? Are we seeing a crack into Hall behind the scenes?

I'm a big Hall fan. Right now I am a bit disappointed and shocked by the trade but I don't think the trading was personal. Hockey is a business and players are a commodity because of it. Hall was an asset. I'm sure Chia would have preferred to trade Yak for Larsson but that wasn't going to happen. To get the deal done, it took Hall unfortunately.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673939 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:56

NetBOG
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Location: Parts Unknown

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I wasn't very enthused with this trade, but at least I can see what the Oilers are doing.

Larsson seems like a defenceman ready to step into a much bigger role. Contrary to what some will say, players do get better after the age of 21. Hopefully he embraces the challenge and continues to grow.

Hall is a very good player, but it doesn't ever fell like he's unstoppable or capable of carrying the team when they need it.

Larsson is also on a great contract. Signed for a year longer than Hall and makes almost $2 million less. This allows the Oilers to bring in somebody else to help.

Again, not happy with the trade, I think they should have got something along with Larsson, but I can see where the Oilers are coming from.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 15:58]

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673940 is a reply to message #673939 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:57

Magnum
Messages: 839
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Where were you when Taylor Hall was traded?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673941 is a reply to message #673887 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:57

ChasinStanley
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spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59

TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47

This is only assuming we sign Demers though, and you're right I'm sure we do overrate our wingers because Jamie Benn is probably the best LW, but he was definitely snubbed by team Canada because no other Canadian LW outscored him (Besides Benn). He's definitely one of the best LW in the league and that is still saying something...can you really say that about Larsson? Also it's not like Taylor is old he's only 24.

But they have a lot of forwards. Hall is one of the best (top 5 I would think) LW in the league but the Oil need defense badly. Everyone knows it and if this was the best they could do, so be it.

It doesn't mean they won the trade "value wise" but this is what they had to do. I really feel that Larsson will be that top minute munching defenseman that gets the Oilers into the playoffs. He immediately moves the rest of the D down a spot (except Klefbom) and that was more important than having a top 5 LW. The Oil have McDavid and Draisatl and now have added Pullujarvi. Forward is still a strength for the Oil.

And from Chia's press conference it seems as though they are still trying to get a more offensive defenseman as well.

I will judge all these moves once he's done and based on the results next season.

Finally someone speaking sense, value is perceived and not real. We had to get better d than we had and as long as it wasn't 97 going the other way we had to do whatever it took. If this is what the market dictated then so be it. I think this helps the team move forward one of the biggest holes is partially filled. We could have stood pat, done nothing and gone into next year with last years D and ended up in the same spot as this year. This also send a big message to those who remain that we mean business and the anointed core better step up.

Does this mean we can close the books on rebuild 2.0 and call it a failure?

Renaissance 2015

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673942 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:58

oiler8
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Location: Wetaskiwin

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I agree with Scott Cullen:

Statistically Speaking: Oilers don't get nearly enough for Hall

Verdict: This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-oilers-don-t-get-ne arly-enough-for-hall-1.517957

Unbelieveable. I usually don't weigh in on trades, but this one is stupid. TERRIBLE.
MAYBE down the road it might be alright, but now it is dumb. Regardless of what a player might become- you trade for what a player is NOW.

I can only hope some nice surprise move shows up in the next few days that makes up for this abomination.

Looking through vomit-colored glasses right now.

oiler8

"A Calgary Flames fan is like a Slinky. It isn't much good for anything, but it does bring a smile to your face when you push it down a set of stairs."

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673943 is a reply to message #673938 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:59

Ragnarok73
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Registered: February 2011

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:52

I listened to Hall talking to the Devils media. Clearly disappointed and does not sound happy about the trade. One comment I didn't like about what he said was he felt slighted by the trade and makes it sound like he was screwed. Slighted?? Are we seeing a crack into Hall behind the scenes?

I'm a big Hall fan. Right now I am a bit disappointed and shocked by the trade but I don't think the trading was personal. Hockey is a business and players are a commodity because of it. Hall was an asset. I'm sure Chia would have preferred to trade Yak for Larsson but that wasn't going to happen. To get the deal done, it took Hall unfortunately.

Chia was looking at the big picture- if he was going to sign Lucic, then there wasn't enough cap space to justify keeping everyone in the current top 6 on the team.

Also, I utterly disagree with those who call Hall a "franchise player"- the Oil picked up a franchise player last year in the draft. Hall was always going to be second fiddle once Connor came along, and he likely didn't feel all that good about it. Did anyone think that Hall was going to become the captain before Connor did? I'm not saying that Hall wasn't a good player for the team- of course he was, but I never considered him an untouchable. Having him leave in return for 2 good d-men and a top winger is what makes this move palatable for me.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673945 is a reply to message #673794 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:03

feepa
Messages: 394
Registered: November 2002
Location: Edmonton

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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:50

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Demers
Davidson / Oesterle
Fayne

I mean, sure, I guess that's better than what we had last year. But that's not playoff calibre defense, and we just trade a franchise player and our absolute best trading chip to arrive at that place.

Where does Nurse and Reinhart fit in?

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673946 is a reply to message #673945 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:04

eedok
Messages: 21
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Location: Edmonton

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feepa wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:03

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:50

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Demers
Davidson / Oesterle
Fayne

I mean, sure, I guess that's better than what we had last year. But that's not playoff calibre defense, and we just trade a franchise player and our absolute best trading chip to arrive at that place.

Where does Nurse and Reinhart fit in?

Bakersfield where they belong, they're not ready to make the jump yet

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673947 is a reply to message #673935 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:04

mightyreasoner
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K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673948 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:06

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3938
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

I'm beyond pissed. Top 5 for top 30, or LESS !!!.
You blow chunks Chiarelli.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673949 is a reply to message #673939 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

Adam
Messages: 6866
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:56

I wasn't very enthused with this trade, but at least I can see what the Oilers are doing.

Larsson seems like a defenceman ready to step into a much bigger role. Contrary to what some will say, players do get better after the age of 21. Hopefully he embraces the challenge and continues to grow.

Hall is a very good player, but it doesn't ever fell like he's unstoppable or capable of carrying the team when they need it.

Larsson is also on a great contract. Signed for a year longer than Hall and makes almost $2 million less. This allows the Oilers to bring in somebody else to help.

Again, not happy with the trade, I think they should have got something along with Larsson, but I can see where the Oilers are coming from.

Who ever said players don't improve after 21?

I think all anyone is saying is that you don't trade a definite for a maybe.

You know Hall is a star player and one of the best wingers in the game. Larsson MIGHT become a decent top pairing defenceman. It's UNLIKELY that he'll ever become a star player and you can see that with Chiarelli already conceding that they still need to get an offensive defenceman.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673950 is a reply to message #673947 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3938
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

Absolutely. Oilers have been had. Steal of the year.
This is Chiarelli's Tyler Seguin move with an Oiler Logo on it.

And.. the dip shttt probably isn't done ... wait for the other shoe..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673951 is a reply to message #673908 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10

ChasinStanley
Messages: 30
Registered: December 2003
Location: in the shadow of a large ...

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Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

I would agree with this. Hall doesn't make others around him better and really doesn't mesh with a lot of players. He is an incredibly talented individual who can do great things individually but really doesn't bring a lot to those around him. I loved Hall's passion and hard work out there but he only ever elevated his game not those around him and he couldn't elevate his game enough on a regular basis to be a difference maker in the standings.

I'mthink making this trade the oilers win more games this year than if they stayed the course, which is all that matters.

Renaissance 2015

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673952 is a reply to message #673950 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10

Adam
Messages: 6866
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

Absolutely. Oilers have been had. Steal of the year.
This is Chiarelli's Tyler Seguin move with an Oiler Logo on it.

And.. the dip shttt probably isn't done ... wait for the other shoe..

Nuge+ for Shattenkirk with no contract?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673954 is a reply to message #673931 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3938
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk and giddy on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 16:27]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673956 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:21

NetBOG
Messages: 2885
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673957 is a reply to message #673952 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:22

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3938
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:10

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

Absolutely. Oilers have been had. Steal of the year.
This is Chiarelli's Tyler Seguin move with an Oiler Logo on it.

And.. the dip shttt probably isn't done ... wait for the other shoe..

Nuge+ for Shattenkirk with no contract?

Yeah something like that.. or this.. RNH + Eberle for Dumba. Same exchange rate as what just went down.

Chiarelli. Tool.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673959 is a reply to message #673956 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3938
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673960 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:28

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

On the bright side, we did get rid of the final remaining player who publicly said that Eakins was a good coach.

smash

smash

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673961 is a reply to message #673954 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:28

Kr55
Messages: 9784
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.

I don't know. I think in 6 months we will be much more over this trade than we are now. I would never dispute that we didn't get fair value, but the Oilers are a better team now and we will win more because of this trade. And we'll be even better if we do sign Lucic (ignoring cap implications for the sake of argument ;) )

It sucks, and I don't like how Chia went about it and there may have been many better ways to do it, but filling that black hole in the lineup was absolutely necessary for the Oilers to not be terrible again. We traded from an area of strength to fill an area that had a big fat 0 beside it.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673963 is a reply to message #673959 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:30

Kr55
Messages: 9784
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

I think you can pretty confidently say Larsson knows how to play D. He played the hardest minutes NJ could have possibly given him all last year 22+ mins a night and ended up +15 on a -24 goal differential team. He can play in his own end. It's the offensive ability that is the question mark.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673964 is a reply to message #673963 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:32

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

I think you can pretty confidently say Larsson knows how to play D. He played the hardest minutes NJ could have possibly given him all last year 22+ mins a night and ended up +15 on a -24 goal differential team. He can play in his own end. It's the offensive ability that is the question mark.

But his quality of teammates was also very high...

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 17:14]

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673965 is a reply to message #673964 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:35

Kr55
Messages: 9784
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

I think you can pretty confidently say Larsson knows how to play D. He played the hardest minutes NJ could have possibly given him all last year 22+ mins a night and ended up +15 on a -24 goal differential team. He can play in his own end. It's the offensive ability that is the question mark.

But his quality of teammates was also very high...

http://public.tableau.com/views/PUCv2_0/PlayerUsageChartTable?:embed=y&:display_count=no

I see it as very low:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=11&s=15 &f1=2015_s&f2=5v5&f5=N.J&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+2 9+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+11+12+13+14+15+16#

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673966 is a reply to message #673951 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:35

Adam
Messages: 6866
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

ChasinStanley wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

I would agree with this. Hall doesn't make others around him better and really doesn't mesh with a lot of players. He is an incredibly talented individual who can do great things individually but really doesn't bring a lot to those around him. I loved Hall's passion and hard work out there but he only ever elevated his game not those around him and he couldn't elevate his game enough on a regular basis to be a difference maker in the standings.

I'mthink making this trade the oilers win more games this year than if they stayed the course, which is all that matters.

Ha ha...maybe you shouldn't look at the WOWY numbers for Draisaitl.

Just on points alone, the difference between Draisaitl with Hall and without Hall is insane.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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