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Oilers » Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673340 is a reply to message #673337 ]	Sat, 25 June 2016 10:28

halfafrog
Messages: 41
Registered: March 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

No Cups

For a player ranked I think it was #2 midway through the season. Obviously the Oilers weren't expecting to get him. Now if we can land a D man.....I like the third round picks today.

So this is what hope feels like?

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673363 is a reply to message #673340 ]	Sat, 25 June 2016 12:23

cableguy
Messages: 6
Registered: December 2005
Location: Victoria, BC

No Cups

Love it, the Oilers get instant depth at RW. Somethings gotta give though, too many LW's and not enough D. If Yak and JP start the season with the OIl, do you think Puljujarvi starts ahead of Yak on the RW? I guess it depends on if they feel the need to pump Yaks trade value by playing him with McDavid.

Maroon - McDavid - Eberle
Hall - Draisaitl - Puljujarvi
Pouliot - Nuge - Yak

Hendricks - Lander - Pakarinen
Korpikoski - Letestu - Kassian

?

[Updated on: Sat, 25 June 2016 12:26]

Still jaded but we've got McDavid

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673372 is a reply to message #673320 ]	Sat, 25 June 2016 14:58

Gator21
Messages: 152
Registered: February 2016
Location: Kelowna, BC

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 25 June 2016 09:11

A behind the scenes video of Pool Party after we picked him:

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/video/behind-the-scenes--puljujar vi/t-277437406/c-44283203

If you want a good laugh, go to 2:35 and see his family reaction to him being picked by us instead of Columbus icon_biggrin

Are we going to be wearing those HUGE Rogers Place "inaugural season" patches all year? They're pretty ugly.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673442 is a reply to message #673244 ]	Mon, 27 June 2016 10:20

Kr55
Messages: 9658
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ is-jesse-puljujarvi-too-much-of-a-good-thing-for-the-edmonto n-oilers

Article from Staples trying to break down Puljujarvi's performances playing against men.

Also a good video in it of highlights. Kid looks like a bigger McDavid in a lot of these highlights. So much speed and power, great playmaker and a pretty good shot too. Kid isn't afraid to walk in and blast the puck as hard as he can.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673448 is a reply to message #673303 ]	Mon, 27 June 2016 10:36

Adam
Messages: 6833
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Sat, 25 June 2016 00:30

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 24 June 2016 18:44

Chia definitely wasn't prepared. Butchered his name! Pool-yu-Jarvee!

No name plate on the jersey either. This was from left field.

Yeah, I was watching the draft with mightyreasoner and he picked up on that right away too. The Oilers may have talked about this possibility internally, but until the draft floor, they clearly didn't think it was even possible. Funny, because it shows how much higher they ranked Puljujaarvi than either Tkachuk or Dubois that they didn't think there was any chance they would get him at #4.

I'm still smiling about that!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673462 is a reply to message #673254 ]	Mon, 27 June 2016 11:49

Kr55
Messages: 9658
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 24 June 2016 17:51

Ha! Thanks Columbus.

How did they not get anything from us trading down? I'm sure Chia would have given up something small if he knew #3 was available to him.

Seems Kekalainen simply got owned by Chia:

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/kekalainen-actual ly-thought-deal-done/

Chia got the hint that Kekalainen didn't want to take Puljujarvi and obviously didn't show his hand on who he would take leaving the possibility open that he could take Dubois, which made it impossible for Kekalainen to go lower than the #4 pick to get his guy. So, Chia backed out of a small deal to move to #3 saving us an asset to get the same guy.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673463 is a reply to message #673462 ]	Mon, 27 June 2016 12:03

Rocksteady
Messages: 479
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 11:49

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 24 June 2016 17:51

Ha! Thanks Columbus.

How did they not get anything from us trading down? I'm sure Chia would have given up something small if he knew #3 was available to him.

Good Good!! now someone write a scene if MacT was still our GM..

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673465 is a reply to message #673463 ]	Mon, 27 June 2016 12:11

Kr55
Messages: 9658
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 12:03

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 June 2016 11:49

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 24 June 2016 17:51

Ha! Thanks Columbus.

How did they not get anything from us trading down? I'm sure Chia would have given up something small if he knew #3 was available to him.

Good Good!! now someone write a scene if MacT was still our GM..

Kekalainen: So MacT, who do you like in this draft?

MacT: We Love Puljujarvi, we think he would be like Kurri was to Gretzky playing with McDavid. We would do almost anything to get him.

Kekalainen: Anyone else you like?

MacT: We are pretty set on getting Tkachuk at #4. We love his gritty play and he had a great Memorial Cup. We think he has Rocket Richard Potential.

Kekalainen: Oh, no one else?

MacT: Nope, those are our 2 guys, we figured we would save some time only scouting guys we expect to go #3 and #4. I was going to see Laine too, but...it's a long story.

Kekalainen: Well, I would consider trading down to #4.

MacT: Oh, wow, that's great news. How about we throw in a 3rd round pick for the swap?

Kekalainen: Let me get back to you... Oh, Vancouver is offering a 1st next year.

MacT: Oh, well... We really want to get this done, since it's for the next Kurri and all. How about 2 1sts?

Kekalainen: Let me get back to you... Vancouver is offering 2 1sts and Horvat.

MacT: Oh..ok. How about 2 1sts and Nuge?

Kekalainen: Done.

MacT: SWEET!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673557 is a reply to message #673244 ]	Mon, 27 June 2016 22:45

Adam
Messages: 6833
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

So when can we start petitioning g2k to change his name to m2p?

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673678 is a reply to message #673462 ]	Tue, 28 June 2016 20:00

Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN

No Cups

https://twitter.com/grantmccagg/status/747832816621228032

Sorry, I don't know how to embed a tweet.

Grant McCagg @grantmccagg

Have heard from both media and NHL sources that if Puljujarvi didn't drop to 4th overall the Oilers were taking Sergachev.
10:43 AM - 28 Jun 2016

28 28 Retweets
18

Thoughts?

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673701 is a reply to message #673678 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 08:02

NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 903
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

No Cups

Just saw this on Oilersnation and had to share it :)

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673707 is a reply to message #673701 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 08:55

Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN

No Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 08:02

Just saw this on Oilersnation and had to share it :)

Bwa ha ha ha

2:01 reminds me of the Eakins "swarm" defense.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673720 is a reply to message #673678 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 10:26

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Red Rage wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 20:00

My thoughts are quite simple: It would have been stupid to pick Sergachev at #4. If they wanted him, fine, but Arizona is there at #7, badly wanting Matthew Tkachuk. You flip the #4 and the #7 and pick up another piece. Reaching at #4 when there is a team that would move up and you both get the player you want... that would be silly.

Puljujarvi falling to us was a gift, and it might have saved the Oilers from making a poor decision.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673725 is a reply to message #673720 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 10:45

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 09:26

Red Rage wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 20:00

It's entirely possible that the Oilers had a deal in place to move down at that point, or were going to try to make a deal to move down. But according to what Chiarelli said, they thought there was a chance that Puljujarvi might fall. And once that happened any deal to move down was off.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673726 is a reply to message #673725 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 10:47

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Goose wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 10:45

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 09:26

Red Rage wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 20:00

Chiarelli read that perfect. Really impressed with that read and how he held on to #4 to see what Columbus would do.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673739 is a reply to message #673725 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 13:06

Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN

No Cups

That makes 100% sense. But so does Columbus making a deal to grab an asset while moving down to draft Dubois later.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #673751 is a reply to message #673739 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 13:29

OilPeg
Messages: 70
Registered: December 2010
Location: Winnipeg

No Cups

Red Rage wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:06

That makes 100% sense. But so does Columbus making a deal to grab an asset while moving down to draft Dubois later.

Unless Chia convinced him he was taking Dubois at 4 and CLB didn't have the guts to call his bluff.

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 March 2021 18:49

Turris in the BOA will be like an ice cube in the Sahara.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675178 is a reply to message #673244 ]	Wed, 20 July 2016 17:36

Adam
Messages: 6833
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

David Staples is feeling optimistic:

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/connor-mcdavids-edmo nton-oilers-could-become-the-golden-state-warriors-of-the-nh l

I hope he's right. I'm not sure that the Oilers will see much success while the current management blunders along, but who knows. You get enough great players and maybe it can overcome poor management...

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675179 is a reply to message #675178 ]	Wed, 20 July 2016 17:39

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 20 July 2016 17:36

Well, if the last batch of 18 year olds didn't work out, just get some more! It's basically how the allies won two world wars.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675183 is a reply to message #675179 ]	Wed, 20 July 2016 19:17

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 590
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

The Oilers offense was 5th from the bottom last season.

McDavid and Drai are a year older, but they lost their best offense guy in the past 6 seasons in Taylor Hall.

Added Lucic which should give players some space, also added a good 2nd pairing D guy in Larsson who Chia says can create offense.

Even if the Oilers stay healthy all season they should be better offensively but I think Staples is drunk. Or high.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675184 is a reply to message #675183 ]	Wed, 20 July 2016 19:25

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

No Cups

WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 20 July 2016 19:17

Can we quit with the passive-aggressive "Adam Larsson is a 2nd pairing defenseman" stuff? He is a first pairing shutdown defender. And he hasn't played a game yet for the Oilers.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675187 is a reply to message #675184 ]	Wed, 20 July 2016 20:57

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Skoobz wrote on Wed, 20 July 2016 18:25

WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 20 July 2016 19:17

Can we quit with the passive-aggressive "Adam Larsson is a 2nd pairing defenseman" stuff? He is a first pairing shutdown defender. And he hasn't played a game yet for the Oilers.

Ummm, then that wouldn't fit the, "this is the worst trade of the salary-cap era", idea that is out there. If you haven't seen that story, it's right next to, "Dallas Eakins was a great coach", and "Chiarelli is going to trade away all of the Oilers skill players for clones of Shawn Thornton - also known as the Bruinification of the Oilers".

And technically, Jordan Eberle has the most points on the Oilers over the past 6 seasons, 331 to 328. Hall has a slightly higher ppg .86 to .78, but I believe games played and actual points scored also matters.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675190 is a reply to message #675187 ]	Thu, 21 July 2016 08:42

Adam
Messages: 6833
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Wed, 20 July 2016 20:57

Skoobz wrote on Wed, 20 July 2016 18:25

WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 20 July 2016 19:17

Can we quit with the passive-aggressive "Adam Larsson is a 2nd pairing defenseman" stuff? He is a first pairing shutdown defender. And he hasn't played a game yet for the Oilers.

There is certainly some hyperbole out there. I think Larsson is a top-60 defenceman, which makes him a first pairing guy. I don't think he's likely to ever convince me that trading Hall was worth it or a good deal.

I'm guessing WhoreableGuy chose 6-years as a random metric, but if you want to look at it a few ways:

Last Year: 1. Taylor Hall (65) 2. Leon Draisaitl (51) 3. Connor McDavid (48)
Last 2 Years: 1. Jordan Eberle (110) 2. Taylor Hall (103) 3. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (90)
Last 3 Years: 1. Taylor Hall (183) 2. Jordan Eberle (175) 3. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (146)
Last 4 Years: 1. Taylor Hall (233) 2. Jordan Eberle (212) 3. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (170)
Last 5 Years: 1. Jordan Eberle (288) 2. Taylor Hall (286) 3. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (222)
Last 6 Years: 1. Jordan Eberle (331) 2. Taylor Hall (328) 3. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (222)

In the last 6 years, there's only been four other players outside of those three to score 100+ points with the team - Gagner (164 in 4 seasons), Hemsky (124 in four seasons), Yakupov (111 in four seasons) and Schultz (105 in four seasons). Part of that is definitely due to turnover, but it shows just how important Hall and Eberle have been to the Oilers. Both are underappreciated now, in large part because they've been part of so many losses.

I think it's pretty fair to be upset about trading a guy who's put up those kind of numbers for a defenceman with 69 career points in 274 games. Best case scenario is that it doesn't look like highway robbery some day. It's unlikely that people will ever look back and say it's a great trade for the Oilers though. I think it's much more likely people say that about the Devils.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675193 is a reply to message #675190 ]	Thu, 21 July 2016 10:37

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Thu, 21 July 2016 07:42

For sure I understand why people are upset. My first thought was that this trade was a total disaster. Most of that came from not having any idea what Larsson was about. The more I look into him, the more that I feel better about the trade. Maybe it's naive optimism, but I actually think he's going to be a really big help to the Oilers, even if he never scores 60 points in a season (or even 50. I think he can get to 40, but keep in mind only 26 defencemen reached that level last year).

I realize that I'm in the minority in that I think the Oilers are a better team today than they were 2 months ago. And that's not a slight on Hall. He's obviously a fantastic player.

I think where I get most tripped up, is all of the talk out in the blogosphere that Chiarelli would have been better off to do nothing rather than make this trade. Not to say that that's not a valid opinion, but it's attached to the idea that they would have been perfectly happy if that were the case and that they wouldn't have ripped Chiarelli at all for doing nothing. I don't think that Chiarelli should be doing stuff to appease the bloggers or fans, but I think it speaks to the difficulty of the situation that he was in. I just find it annoying that the same guys that are ripping Chiarelli the hardest on twitter and on their blogs are the same guys that would have ripped him the most if he hadn't done anything, or just tinkered around the edges.

He knew he wanted (had) to improve the defence. According to corsica.hockey the Oilers were 9th in the league last year in xGF at even strength (which estimates how many goals you should have scored based on shot number, type and location) and 24th in xGA, and 26th in shots against. We know that Larsson has a positive impact on the both of these metrics and I think will help immensely in this regard. And I think it's important to provide support to Talbot, so that we don't end up with the next Dubnyk, Scrivens, Fasth, etc. I think there's at least some evidence that after Demers visited it became apparent that he wasn't going to sign here. We don't really know what the situation was with respect to a trade for Subban, but it sounds like the ask was very high (although I still may have made that trade instead, although the cap implications are also a factor there for sure). We also know that there is evidence that the Oilers tried to get Hamonic out of NY, even offering Hall, and the Islanders turned them down. So it's not like the Oilers just made the first trade that came across their desk.

https://fansided.com/2016/07/03/nhl-trade-rumors-oilers-offe red-islanders-taylor-hall-travis-hamonic/

The best argument that I've seen that the Oilers should have stood pat was basically that if you build the top 9 as follows:

Pouliot/Nuge/Ebs - proven line that has played against top comp in the past and post a positive GF/GA ratio.

Hall/Drai/Yak - Hall/Drai were fantastic together and posted a positive GF/GA ratio. They played mostly with Purcell until the deadline, but Yak shouldn't drag them below 50%

Maroon/McDavid/Puljujarvi - get the softest minutes and eat 3rd line forwards and 2nd/3rd pairing defencemen for lunch. And if opposing coaches key in on this line on the road, the other two lines take advantage of the easier minutes.

If the Oilers have three lines outscoring the opponents, there's no way the 4th line is enough to drag them down below 50% overall in GF/GA ratio and really that's the whole point of hockey - score more goals than the other guys.

It's a strong argument, but I think there are a few issues:

- goaltending is the great equalizer. And if Talbot falls prey to the same demons that afflicted the past 8 or 12 goalies here because they are getting peppered by Grade A scoring chances every night, then that's an issue.
- it's a cliche, but defence wins championships. The above scenario is a great theory, but teams just don't win Cups without either a stud on defence or a solid group that goes 6 deep - the Oilers have neither. They are not perfect yet, but much closer than they were.
- Klefbom's injury history concerns me. I think he's a great player and I think him and Larsson can be a really great pair. But if he gets injured again, the whole system is chaos. Having a legit 1st pairing guy on the right side provides some insurance against that, as the Oilers are much deeper on the left side and can slide guys up much more easily now that they have an anchor on the right side.
- The cap has to be a consideration. Klef/Larsson now represent a very good value legitimate 1st pair. Not that Hall's contract wasn't good value, but it was higher in absolute terms, which makes the issue even more complex.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675201 is a reply to message #675193 ]	Thu, 21 July 2016 13:01

OilPeg
Messages: 70
Registered: December 2010
Location: Winnipeg

No Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 21 July 2016 11:37

The best argument that I've seen that the Oilers should have stood pat was basically that if you build the top 9 as follows:

Pouliot/Nuge/Ebs - proven line that has played against top comp in the past and post a positive GF/GA ratio.

Hall/Drai/Yak - Hall/Drai were fantastic together and posted a positive GF/GA ratio. They played mostly with Purcell until the deadline, but Yak shouldn't drag them below 50%

Maroon/McDavid/Puljujarvi - get the softest minutes and eat 3rd line forwards and 2nd/3rd pairing defencemen for lunch. And if opposing coaches key in on this line on the road, the other two lines take advantage of the easier minutes.

If the Oilers have three lines outscoring the opponents, there's no way the 4th line is enough to drag them down below 50% overall in GF/GA ratio and really that's the whole point of hockey - score more goals than the other guys.

It's a strong argument, but I think there are a few issues:

- goaltending is the great equalizer. And if Talbot falls prey to the same demons that afflicted the past 8 or 12 goalies here because they are getting peppered by Grade A scoring chances every night, then that's an issue.
- it's a cliche, but defence wins championships. The above scenario is a great theory, but teams just don't win Cups without either a stud on defence or a solid group that goes 6 deep - the Oilers have neither. They are not perfect yet, but much closer than they were.
- Klefbom's injury history concerns me. I think he's a great player and I think him and Larsson can be a really great pair. But if he gets injured again, the whole system is chaos. Having a legit 1st pairing guy on the right side provides some insurance against that, as the Oilers are much deeper on the left side and can slide guys up much more easily now that they have an anchor on the right side.
- The cap has to be a consideration. Klef/Larsson now represent a very good value legitimate 1st pair. Not that Hall's contract wasn't good value, but it was higher in absolute terms, which makes the issue even more complex.

I'm with you Goose, I think we're better today than before the trade and I think the reason is right in your post about what the lines could have been had we kept Hall. Your example lists them as:
Pouliot-Nuge-Eberle
Hall-Drai-Yak
Maroon-McD-Puljujarvi

The Oilers have taken this line up and switched Hall for Lucic while upgrading their D tremendously. That can't be understated. There's no reason why they can't compete and do the things your link suggest with Lucic instead of Hall, might have to juggle things a little, but it will still work. You don't even have to play Lucic with McDavid either, just because the media says that's where he's going to play, doesn't mean he will.

I understand the argument that some people are making that you can't look at the trade as being Hall for Larsson PLUS Lucic and PLUS Pujujarvi, but at the same time I kind of think you have to. Had the Blue Jackets not passed on Puljujarvi and had Lucic's meeting not gone well with the club prior to free agnecy, then the trade probably doesn't happen as it does. But those events did happen, and that led to the trade. I don't like that it was one-for-one, but I do like the team better today than I did before the trade.
.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675205 is a reply to message #675201 ]	Thu, 21 July 2016 13:20

PlusOne
Messages: 1525
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

OilPeg wrote on Thu, 21 July 2016 13:01

Goose wrote on Thu, 21 July 2016 11:37

I would agree with you both about the lines if this was a video game. While I do believe in advanced stats to a (large) degree as an analytical tool the biggest problem most people agreed on in the last bunch of years is that the Oilers had good to great forwards but if the puck is in the back of your net, the face off is in your end or you are hemmed in for long periods of a shift that talent is underutilized.
I believe the Oilers didnt need a pure puck mover. They needed players to solidify the back end. Limit high % scoring chances, clear the puck from the net and then the zone and win battles. They had hoped Fayne would be that guy.
It seems Larsson can help with those to some degree, some to a high degree.
I think the reason that Hall and McDavid were still successful was the fact that they had the speed to drive the play, often from our own blue line to the other teams end. I think that having Larsson back there will give an uptick to the entire group in that they dont have to feel so nervous in the Oilers end. They can perform their assignment in the zone and be ready for a proper breakout when the time comes.
This will allow, Drai, Eberle, Yak, JP etc a lot more opportunities to make plays as they shouldnt be stuck in their own end for such prolonged periods of time. I cant even begin to count the amount of shift with our high end forwards that ended with them not getting across center ice....

I also dont see the trade anything more than one for one and is clear the Oilers lost that in a pure analysis.
With the addition of Lucic and JP on top of that trade I do believe the Oilers are an overall better team. Do I want the Oilers to rush JP to the NHL? Do I think Lucic has 2 years too much term? That is a longer discussion for another time but for the next 2-4 years I think the Oilers are better now than if they had not traded Hall.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675206 is a reply to message #675201 ]	Thu, 21 July 2016 13:40

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

OilPeg wrote on Thu, 21 July 2016 12:01

Ya as weird as it is to say it, given that Hall is a much better player overall, I think that had the Oilers traded Nuge instead it would have created way more chaos in their line-up than trading Hall has. Lucic is a sufficient replacement, and I don't think an equivalent centre was available in free-agency. And I would have been very nervous running McDavid/Drai as the top two centres, even with Hall on Drai's wing.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675210 is a reply to message #675193 ]	Thu, 21 July 2016 14:32

Steve
Messages: 106
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

I think it's reasonable to assume that the Oilers could have signed Jason Demers. What do you prefer:

Hall and Demers
or
Lucic and Larsson.

The difference is only slight in my opinion, but I would give the edge to Lucic and Larsson, mostly because Larsson has more potential to grow still, whereas Demers is a known commodity. Plus, the Lucic and Larsson combo is actually cheaper, which helps.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #675213 is a reply to message #675210 ]	Thu, 21 July 2016 14:52

NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 903
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

No Cups

Steve wrote on Thu, 21 July 2016 14:32

Lucic and Larsson. Larsson is a legit top pairing D, Demers isn't.
With Demers we'd once again be playing D in a position higher than they really should be playing. We're all very familiar with how well that's worked out for us the past ten years...

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #676350 is a reply to message #673244 ]	Fri, 26 August 2016 09:12

Kr55
Messages: 9658
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Stolen from HF. Some skill competitions with Laine and Poolparty.

Hardest shot Winner - Puljujarvi
http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8530262

Fastest Skater Winner - Puljujarvi
http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8530270

Accuracy Winner - Puljujarvi
http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8530260

Shootout
http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8530251

Seems Oiler fans will need to start a chant when Winnipeg is in town. "Puljujarvi's better!" icon_nod

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #676351 is a reply to message #676350 ]	Fri, 26 August 2016 09:52

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3725
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I think the Oilers got the steal of the draft. It's not too often that you see a NHL GM smile that big prior to going up on the podium like Chi was. I think he schooled the Jackets GM. Mac T would have paid a kings ransom to move up one spot.

If you looked at the Oilers roster, even before they traded Hall, if you asked the Oilers what they really needed, it was a right shot, top end Dman or a big, skilled, good skating right shot right winger. There wasn't a top end, right shot dman but there was the exact winger they needed. Puljujarvi is 6'4, 203 at 18 yrs old. He hasn't even finished filling out yet.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #676352 is a reply to message #676351 ]	Fri, 26 August 2016 10:06

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 09:52

Yeah, but Tambo would've won the lottery... so yeah.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #676353 is a reply to message #676352 ]	Fri, 26 August 2016 10:19

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3725
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Magnum wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 10:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 09:52

Yeah, but Tambo would've won the lottery... so yeah.

They should have hired Tambo to be the official lottery guy. All he has to do is show up when it's time to make the draw.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #676354 is a reply to message #676352 ]	Fri, 26 August 2016 10:21

Adam
Messages: 6833
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Magnum wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 10:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 09:52

Yeah, but Tambo would've won the lottery... so yeah.

That's ridiculous. Why would we want Auston Matthews! We didn't need a center, so it would have been the worst.

Besides, Patrick O'Sullivan!

And let's face it. MacTavish would not have got a trade done either. He would have announced his intention to do a trade, then tried really hard to do a trade, then told everyone who'd listen what he offered in a trade, but ultimately would have failed and probably traded down instead for three other late round picks. Then he'd tell us it's alright, because someone on our team is almost the same as a first ballot Hall of Famer, or bound to be nominated for a major individual award in the near future.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #676355 is a reply to message #676353 ]	Fri, 26 August 2016 10:49

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 10:19

Magnum wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 10:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 09:52

Yeah, but Tambo would've won the lottery... so yeah.

They should have hired Tambo to be the official lottery guy. All he has to do is show up when it's time to make the draw.

I'd pay Tambo $5,000,000 per year, of Katz's money to do that.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #676356 is a reply to message #676355 ]	Fri, 26 August 2016 11:04

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3725
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Magnum wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 10:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 10:19

Magnum wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 10:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 09:52

Yeah, but Tambo would've won the lottery... so yeah.

They should have hired Tambo to be the official lottery guy. All he has to do is show up when it's time to make the draw.

I'd pay Tambo $5,000,000 per year, of Katz's money to do that.

If the Oilers don't win the playoffs but finish just out so they are the last team in the lottery. I would really like them to hire Tambo so they can win the lottery next year as the team with the worst odds just to piss everyone else off.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #705564 is a reply to message #673244 ]	Sun, 17 December 2017 10:23

Kr55
Messages: 9658
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

So, with the McDavid vs Eichel debate completely decided (and McDavid vs Matthews among 30/31 fanbases), we are left with Puljujavri vs Dubois.

There was an article on the athletic about how Columbus had the book on Pulju and may not have even had him top 4 on their list, possible much lower. A real self stroker of a story. Was before the game vs Columbus where Pulju had a goal and an assist.

Career stats so far:
Pulju: 44 games, 7-9-16 (16, 6-2-8 this season, 28, 1-7-8 last season)
Dubois: 33 games, 6-8-14 (all in this season, his first)

Both guys are getting top line minutes this year with better more experienced players. Dubois has been pushing 20 mins a night a lot and gets PP time however. Pulju is usually in the 13 range with zero PP opportunity.

Will Pulju take over this one? He certainly has the tools to do it. Bigger, faster, better shot, better vision. Honestly, he's better than PLD at all the offensive talents. PLD is kind of like a Bo Horvat, who can also be very useful since he is a C that can give a solid effort.

[Updated on: Sun, 17 December 2017 10:28]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #705581 is a reply to message #676350 ]	Sun, 17 December 2017 22:33

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 590
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2016 09:12

Man, I was looking for this post for the past year! Forgot who or what thread it was in. I knew I never dreamt seeing this.

As the days go on and I see Puljujarvi’s defensive game I almost believe in 5 years we can have a Laine/Puljujarvi discussion. I’m not even in the least worried that Dubois will turn out better than Jesse.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #705614 is a reply to message #705564 ]	Mon, 18 December 2017 13:15

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3725
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 17 December 2017 10:23

Read some comments from McLellan who talked about JP and him being elevated to get PP time and he touched on how big the language issue actually was. All I see is he's coming and look out.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727880 is a reply to message #673244 ]	Fri, 18 January 2019 09:07

Oscargasm
Messages: 5691
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

A lot of the hockey world were surprised to see Puljujarvi available at 4...

Now a Finnish reporter has come out and blamed the Oilers for JP’s lack of confidence and claims the organization has hurt his development.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-have-wrecked-jesse-puljujavis-confidence-sa ys-finnish-sportswriter

Interested in reading it in Finnish?
https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10600457

The guy that translated it for Staples, Veikko Lehtonen, had this to say via twitter;
This 🇫🇮 interview tells very well how frustrated Jesse is right now. After 3 years in @EdmontonOilers it’s difficult to see how creative and talent he was before. He still is but I don’t think Edmonton is right place to him right now.

JP also addresses his ice time and the trade rumours with the Fin reporter;
Seppala said: “In December, head coach Ken Hitchcock assured him that he would offer a fair opportunity to Puljärvi, but now the credit seems to be on the bottom again. And why not? There is very little happening in the game of Puljujärvi.

Puljujarvi told Seppala he’d made a mistake on a Vancouver goal. “I should been able to take that puck. Icetime must be earned, and now I didn’t.”

He said he could not blame Hitchcock for his ice time situation.

“I haven’t earned that more that that. If I didn’t do anything at the time, then it’s like this.”

Seppala wrote that Puljujarvi is trying to focus on physicality and defense gaming, which of course are important values for the young player.

Seppalla asked Puljujarvi about the possibility of being traded.

“Yes, I’ve seen rumour, but I just need to go day by day. I don’t think about trade,” Puljujarvi said.

Seppala then blasted the Oilers and said the young Finn might be liberated by a trade.”Yes Puljujärvi deserves criticism, but the same can be said of Edmonton Oilers regarding the development of young players… There are no signs of self-confidence in Puljujärvi, and it’s not only Jesse’s fault, Oilers should look the mirror too.”

Now, we’ve seen this type of thing before with Yakupov and just like that situation yes, the organization has to take blame but so does the player. I hate to say this, bc Jesse is still VERY young and I strongly believe he’ll be a player, but I don’t see it with the Oilers anymore. As unfortunate as that is to say, it leads me to be on the side of trading Puljujarvi now before his value is hurt further and he either bolts or we trade him later for a return a la Yakupov, or worse.

Just another feather in the cap of the Oilers management. Development of youth is such a joke here and is further evidence that the problems run deeper than Chiarelli. (Still think Carolina would be a great fit for JP, with former linemate Aho.)

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
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