Review:
Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #75) [message #733914] |
Sat, 23 March 2019 16:30 |
|
|
|
WhoreableGuy Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary
No Cups
|
|
Season over!
"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"
- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win
|
|
|
|
|
overdue Messages: 493
Registered: October 2014
No Cups
|
|
Beat by another worstest team. Typical! The Oilers can make any opponent look like all stars.
[Updated on: Sat, 23 March 2019 17:14]
|
|
|
|
|
Magic number now 4 I believe. Can’t come soon enough. Eff this whole org
In fairness to Hall, I've wanted to throw a waterbottle at Eakins all season.
~nullterm 03/22/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Kr55 Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
|
|
WhoreableGuy wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 16:37 | Season over!
|
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
|
|
|
|
|
DeZoE Messages: 24
Registered: March 2007
No Cups
|
|
Nobody noticed the blatant interference on McDavid on that last play? No interference there and McDavid makes it back to break up that play.
I'm not wearing pants...
|
|
|
|
|
Kr55 Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
|
|
DeZoE wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 16:46 | Nobody noticed the blatant interference on McDavid on that last play? No interference there and McDavid makes it back to break up that play.
|
Yeah, saw that. Sneaky play. Refs seemed to want to let the loser battle just go figure itself out tonight. Not worth their time :)
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
|
|
|
|
g2k Messages: 2823
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
|
|
Close game, but was this game as meh to watch on TV as it was at the rink?
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
|
|
|
|
|
WhoreableGuy Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary
No Cups
|
|
Needed a big goal by TOBY.
"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"
- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win
|
|
|
|
|
Magnum Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff
No Cups
|
|
Where was Toby on this?
2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!
|
|
|
|
|
CrusaderPi Messages: 7793
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
|
|
Magnum wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 17:36 | Where was Toby on this?
|
He was playing fortnight in the dressing room. Finished third. Good showing.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
|
|
|
|
|
Skookum Jim Messages: 4405
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
|
|
DeZoE wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 15:46 | Nobody noticed the blatant interference on McDavid on that last play? No interference there and McDavid makes it back to break up that play.
|
...interference?... which one ... it never stops...
They even called it on the broadcast .. the strategy was to pin McD against the boards once the puck leaves so he can't skate, called it a "smart" play..
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
|
|
|
|
|
Kr55 Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
|
|
CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 18:58 |
Magnum wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 17:36 | Where was Toby on this?
|
He was playing fortnight in the dressing room. Finished third. Good showing.
|
I think Rieder is close to a record. goalless season with the most shots.
Seeing people say the record is Craig Adams with 84 shots and 0 goals in a season.
Rieder has 81 shots with 7 games left to get 4 more. Don't screw this up Rieder!!!
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
|
|
|
|
mightyreasoner Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
|
|
Kr55 wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 19:12 |
CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 18:58 |
Magnum wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 17:36 | Where was Toby on this?
|
He was playing fortnight in the dressing room. Finished third. Good showing.
|
I think Rieder is close to a record. goalless season with the most shots.
Seeing people say the record is Craig Adams with 84 shots and 0 goals in a season.
Rieder has 81 shots with 7 games left to get 4 more. Don't screw this up Rieder!!!
|
I don't know about shots, but Scott Gomez had to be close I would imagine. Went February 5, 2011 to February 9, 2012 between goals, and was paid $7.5M during the process.
|
|
|
|
|
Skookum Jim Messages: 4405
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
|
|
mightyreasoner wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 18:28 |
Kr55 wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 19:12 |
CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 18:58 |
Magnum wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 17:36 | Where was Toby on this?
|
He was playing fortnight in the dressing room. Finished third. Good showing.
|
I think Rieder is close to a record. goalless season with the most shots.
Seeing people say the record is Craig Adams with 84 shots and 0 goals in a season.
Rieder has 81 shots with 7 games left to get 4 more. Don't screw this up Rieder!!!
|
I don't know about shots, but Scott Gomez had to be close I would imagine. Went February 5, 2011 to February 9, 2012 between goals, and was paid $7.5M during the process.
|
Toby's only getting $2 M... so do the math.. we're getting a steal !!
Good work Chia! and .. thanks for the Oiler discount Toby!!
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
|
|
|
|
|
overdue Messages: 493
Registered: October 2014
No Cups
|
|
Toby sucks. Nicholson was right, he just shouldn't have blabbed about it in public. No class and anything to lay blame elsewhere for another crappy season filled with massive mistakes by management. McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
|
|
|
|
stemhovlichski Messages: 349
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR
No Cups
|
|
overdue wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 13:05 | McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
Hey, maybe if he does a good enough job down there, one day he could become coach and maybe even GM of the NHL team!!!!
..........................again.
Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010
"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015
|
|
|
|
|
Kr55 Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
|
|
overdue wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 13:05 | Toby sucks. Nicholson was right, he just shouldn't have blabbed about it in public. No class and anything to lay blame elsewhere for another crappy season filled with massive mistakes by management. McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
Did Nicholson just make that up? Because I thought i saw reports that MacT was mainly involved in pro-scouting for the NHL club. Was weird that Nicholson decided to try an give MacT all the credit for the AHL team and the young guys doing well there. Howson is the player development VP, figure he would be more involved with the AHL club as well.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
|
|
|
|
|
overdue Messages: 493
Registered: October 2014
No Cups
|
|
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 18:23 |
overdue wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 13:05 | Toby sucks. Nicholson was right, he just shouldn't have blabbed about it in public. No class and anything to lay blame elsewhere for another crappy season filled with massive mistakes by management. McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
Did Nicholson just make that up? Because I thought i saw reports that MacT was mainly involved in pro-scouting for the NHL club. Was weird that Nicholson decided to try an give MacT all the credit for the AHL team and the young guys doing well there. Howson is the player development VP, figure he would be more involved with the AHL club as well.
|
His job description is Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations with the Oilers and I couldn't find anything on who the GM of the Condors is. I guess that could include working with the farm team but nothing mentioned about that on the Oilers website. Maybe it's just more OBC reinforcement propaganda on Nicholson's part, who knows. They don't mention anything about Howsen being involved with the Condors either from what I read, more junior level hockey in his job description. If it's not McTavish that is responsible for the Condors success this season, they should fire both him and Howsen and give whoever is responsible a raise. McTavish did go down to California a year ago to take the heat from the fans when the Condors were in last place in the Pacific.
|
|
|
|
|
Oscargasm Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
|
|
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 18:23 |
overdue wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 13:05 | Toby sucks. Nicholson was right, he just shouldn't have blabbed about it in public. No class and anything to lay blame elsewhere for another crappy season filled with massive mistakes by management. McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
Did Nicholson just make that up? Because I thought i saw reports that MacT was mainly involved in pro-scouting for the NHL club. Was weird that Nicholson decided to try an give MacT all the credit for the AHL team and the young guys doing well there. Howson is the player development VP, figure he would be more involved with the AHL club as well.
|
On September 12, 2015, general manager Peter Chiarelli revealed in an interview with TSN's Bob McKenzie that MacTavish had been given the title of Vice President of Hockey Operations; most of his duties would circulate around the Oilers' new affiliate team the Bakersfield Condors, his other main focus will be on pro scouting.
From his wiki page, nonetheless.
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
|
|
|
|
|
Kr55 Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
|
|
Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 21:13 |
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 18:23 |
overdue wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 13:05 | Toby sucks. Nicholson was right, he just shouldn't have blabbed about it in public. No class and anything to lay blame elsewhere for another crappy season filled with massive mistakes by management. McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
Did Nicholson just make that up? Because I thought i saw reports that MacT was mainly involved in pro-scouting for the NHL club. Was weird that Nicholson decided to try an give MacT all the credit for the AHL team and the young guys doing well there. Howson is the player development VP, figure he would be more involved with the AHL club as well.
|
On September 12, 2015, general manager Peter Chiarelli revealed in an interview with TSN's Bob McKenzie that MacTavish had been given the title of Vice President of Hockey Operations; most of his duties would circulate around the Oilers' new affiliate team the Bakersfield Condors, his other main focus will be on pro scouting.
From his wiki page, nonetheless.
|
Did Nicholson just update that page 2 days ago? :)
Well...I don't know what to say then...MacT possibly did something kinda useful.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
|
|
|
|
|
Ragnarok73 Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011
2 Cups
|
|
WhoreableGuy wrote on Sat, 23 March 2019 16:37 | Season over!
|
You were overly optimistic if you are only thinking this way now.
"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.
5-14-6-1
"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."
|
|
|
|
|
Oscargasm Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
|
|
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 21:26 |
Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 21:13 |
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 18:23 |
overdue wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 13:05 | Toby sucks. Nicholson was right, he just shouldn't have blabbed about it in public. No class and anything to lay blame elsewhere for another crappy season filled with massive mistakes by management. McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
Did Nicholson just make that up? Because I thought i saw reports that MacT was mainly involved in pro-scouting for the NHL club. Was weird that Nicholson decided to try an give MacT all the credit for the AHL team and the young guys doing well there. Howson is the player development VP, figure he would be more involved with the AHL club as well.
|
On September 12, 2015, general manager Peter Chiarelli revealed in an interview with TSN's Bob McKenzie that MacTavish had been given the title of Vice President of Hockey Operations; most of his duties would circulate around the Oilers' new affiliate team the Bakersfield Condors, his other main focus will be on pro scouting.
From his wiki page, nonetheless.
|
Did Nicholson just update that page 2 days ago? :)
Well...I don't know what to say then...MacT possibly did something kinda useful.
|
I doubt Bob would be sly enough to do that, unless someone told him to?
Now... I don't want to take anything away from the Condors, they've had an unreal 2019 so far... but could they have just caught lightning in a bottle?
Before they went on that 17-win streak, they had lost 5 in a row. Entering play on January 12th, the night the streak began, they sat at 16-15-2-1 (the AHL tracks overtime and shootout losses separate in their records). They currently sit 37-17-3-2. When the streak ended... 33-15-2-1. Since the streak ended... 4-2-1-1.
Maybe it's the Oilers glasses I'm wearing, you know, those ones that don't allow you to see positives outside of the moral victories (like a 17 game win streak in what otherwise is a ho-hum season).
Winning is great, and any Oilers product being exposed to winning is great. But let's not take our pants off quite yet.
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
|
|
|
|
|
Kr55 Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
|
|
Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 23:00 |
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 21:26 |
Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 21:13 |
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 18:23 |
overdue wrote on Sun, 24 March 2019 13:05 | Toby sucks. Nicholson was right, he just shouldn't have blabbed about it in public. No class and anything to lay blame elsewhere for another crappy season filled with massive mistakes by management. McTavish is dong a good job with the farm team so I would keep him but the rest need to be relieved of their duties asap.
|
Did Nicholson just make that up? Because I thought i saw reports that MacT was mainly involved in pro-scouting for the NHL club. Was weird that Nicholson decided to try an give MacT all the credit for the AHL team and the young guys doing well there. Howson is the player development VP, figure he would be more involved with the AHL club as well.
|
On September 12, 2015, general manager Peter Chiarelli revealed in an interview with TSN's Bob McKenzie that MacTavish had been given the title of Vice President of Hockey Operations; most of his duties would circulate around the Oilers' new affiliate team the Bakersfield Condors, his other main focus will be on pro scouting.
From his wiki page, nonetheless.
|
Did Nicholson just update that page 2 days ago? :)
Well...I don't know what to say then...MacT possibly did something kinda useful.
|
I doubt Bob would be sly enough to do that, unless someone told him to?
Now... I don't want to take anything away from the Condors, they've had an unreal 2019 so far... but could they have just caught lightning in a bottle?
Before they went on that 17-win streak, they had lost 5 in a row. Entering play on January 12th, the night the streak began, they sat at 16-15-2-1 (the AHL tracks overtime and shootout losses separate in their records). They currently sit 37-17-3-2. When the streak ended... 33-15-2-1. Since the streak ended... 4-2-1-1.
Maybe it's the Oilers glasses I'm wearing, you know, those ones that don't allow you to see positives outside of the moral victories (like a 17 game win streak in what otherwise is a ho-hum season).
Winning is great, and any Oilers product being exposed to winning is great. But let's not take our pants off quite yet.
|
Too late man. Pants are off...it's all off. Bobby Nicks sold me, MacT rules.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
|
|
|
|
RDOilerfan Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
|
|
The Oilers realistic chances of making the playoffs were next to zero but as a player, I get why they supposedly still had a belief when it's mathematically possible. Players are wired to want to win all the time so if there is a chance, you play to win. But at the same time if they believed they had a chance, how the hell does this game happen? You can't lose to the last play team in the NHL. You can't have a team that is dead last in the league and have nothing to play other than pride get out worked. Ottawa was the hungrier team.
|
|
|
|
|
OilCanSam Messages: 6
Registered: August 2006
Location: VanGroovy
No Cups
|
|
Go Oilers!
|
|
|
|
|
welcometotheOC Messages: 642
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown
No Cups
|
|
OilCanSam wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 12:23 | Go Oilers!
|
Troll
|
|
|
|
|
welcometotheOC Messages: 642
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown
No Cups
|
|
OilCanSam wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 12:23 | Go Oilers!
|
Troll
|
|
|
|
|
CrusaderPi Messages: 7793
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
|
|
welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 16:48 |
OilCanSam wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 12:23 | Go Oilers!
|
Troll
|
You take that back. Sam is a top drawer long term poster here.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
|
|
|
|
g2k Messages: 2823
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
|
|
welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 16:48 |
OilCanSam wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 12:23 | Go Oilers!
|
Troll
|
Whoa whoa WHOA!!!
line crossed...
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
|
|
|
|
|
welcometotheOC Messages: 642
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown
No Cups
|
|
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 19:28 |
welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 16:48 |
OilCanSam wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 12:23 | Go Oilers!
|
Troll
|
You take that back. Sam is a top drawer long term poster here.
|
I’ve been here a long time too, not always as a member (lurked for years). I’m reluctant to take it back as the only time I see him (her?) post here is during or near the end of very dark threads and it seems trollish to me.
Perhaps it is the last gasping death breaths of Oiler fandom escaping their lips.
IF that is the case I do take it back.
(Or my sarcasm meter is broken??)
|
|
|
|
|
Kr55 Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
|
|
OilCanSam wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 12:23 | Go Oilers!
|
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
|
|
|
|
|
CrudeRemarks Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
|
|
welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 19:35 |
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 19:28 |
welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 16:48 |
OilCanSam wrote on Mon, 25 March 2019 12:23 | Go Oilers!
|
Troll
|
You take that back. Sam is a top drawer long term poster here.
|
I’ve been here a long time too, not always as a member (lurked for years). I’m reluctant to take it back as the only time I see him (her?) post here is during or near the end of very dark threads and it seems trollish to me.
Perhaps it is the last gasping death breaths of Oiler fandom escaping their lips.
IF that is the case I do take it back.
(Or my sarcasm meter is broken??)
|
Go Oilers
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
|
|
|
|
|
OilCanSam Messages: 6
Registered: August 2006
Location: VanGroovy
No Cups
|
|
Since I've been called out
My posts are meant to be tongue in cheek and an attempt to brighten people's days since the past several seasons have seen this board deteriorate into doom and gloom. I'm an optimist by nature.
I've been an Oilers fan since I moved to Edmonton in 1998. I joined this board when I discovered it after the 2006 cup run. I even played in a Heckle once!
We're all in this together
|
|
|
|
|
CrusaderPi Messages: 7793
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
|
|
OilCanSam wrote on Tue, 26 March 2019 10:52 | Since I've been called out
My posts are meant to be tongue in cheek and an attempt to brighten people's days since the past several seasons have seen this board deteriorate into doom and gloom. I'm an optimist by nature.
I've been an Oilers fan since I moved to Edmonton in 1998. I joined this board when I discovered it after the 2006 cup run. I even played in a Heckle once!
We're all in this together
|
Like I said, a long term top drawer poster.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
|
|
|
|
g2k Messages: 2823
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
|
|
OilCanSam wrote on Tue, 26 March 2019 10:52 | Since I've been called out
My posts are meant to be tongue in cheek and an attempt to brighten people's days since the past several seasons have seen this board deteriorate into doom and gloom. I'm an optimist by nature.
I've been an Oilers fan since I moved to Edmonton in 1998. I joined this board when I discovered it after the 2006 cup run. I even played in a Heckle once!
We're all in this together
|
And it always puts a smile on my face. The timing is usually perfect. The phrase/appearance is certainly not over used.
And the avatar is key. Without the avatar, there is no smile.
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
|
|
|
|
|
welcometotheOC Messages: 642
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown
No Cups
|
|
OilCanSam wrote on Tue, 26 March 2019 10:52 | Since I've been called out
My posts are meant to be tongue in cheek and an attempt to brighten people's days since the past several seasons have seen this board deteriorate into doom and gloom. I'm an optimist by nature.
I've been an Oilers fan since I moved to Edmonton in 1998. I joined this board when I discovered it after the 2006 cup run. I even played in a Heckle once!
We're all in this together
|
ok, fair enough ... that was another possibility I was thinking of (sorry, on vacation and was at the beach all day so delayed response). A little warped ;-) but thanks for the touch of positive levity!
I’ve probably been a fan of the Oilers as long or longer than anyone here (basically since the first WHA season as the Alberta Oilers) so this latest decade has been painful, but also lived through the glory years so it kind of balances out - time for an uptick now!!
|
|
|
|