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 Kr55
Messages: 9840
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 15:37 |
One more on depth:
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Woodguy
@Woodguy55
Had a request to overlay EDM GM's with their 5v5 Goal Share without their best player on the ice.
Blue line is average NHL playoff team's 5v5 goal share with their best player off the ice:
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Those stats are elevated this year too because of Drai's heater at the start of the year which gets lumped with the "without McDavid" stats. When McDrai were put on the same line around half way through, the "without McDavid" stats absolutely cratered. And of course we decided that was the smart way to go in the playoffs. 3/4 of your lines getting owned every night.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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 Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
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| Kr55 wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 14:38 |
Those stats are elevated this year too because of Drai's heater at the start of the year which gets lumped with the "without McDavid" stats. When McDrai were put on the same line around half way through, the "without McDavid" stats absolutely cratered. And of course we decided that was the smart way to go in the playoffs. 3/4 of your lines getting owned every night.
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This is the infuriating part. We know that McDavid and Draisaitl will score more than they will give up. The pp right now is one of the best units we've seen in a generation so the special teams is going to be a plus. All we need is a bottom 6 that is remotely competent and the Oilers will be one of the best teams in the league (goaltending aside), and instead we're stuck with bringing back one of the worst groups in the league.
Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7677
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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Jesus.
I mean we know it's bad, but holy hell is it bad.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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Adam
Messages: 6884
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| Goose wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 15:49 |
| Kr55 wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 14:38 |
Those stats are elevated this year too because of Drai's heater at the start of the year which gets lumped with the "without McDavid" stats. When McDrai were put on the same line around half way through, the "without McDavid" stats absolutely cratered. And of course we decided that was the smart way to go in the playoffs. 3/4 of your lines getting owned every night.
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This is the infuriating part. We know that McDavid and Draisaitl will score more than they will give up. The pp right now is one of the best units we've seen in a generation so the special teams is going to be a plus. All we need is a bottom 6 that is remotely competent and the Oilers will be one of the best teams in the league (goaltending aside), and instead we're stuck with bringing back one of the worst groups in the league.
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We've gone through 10+ years now of the Oilers thinking the Bottom 6 needs to be all specialists and that at least 4-5 of them need to be seen as "excellent penalty killers". Never mind that I think system is as important or more than personnel on the PK, if these guys get 10 minutes a game and 8 of them are even strength, then that is more important than the 2 minutes of penalty killing.
The weird thing in this "copycat league" is that the Oilers don't really bother copying the winners, not really. The Blackhawks won Cups with guys like Andrew Ladd, Dustin Byfuglien and Teuvo Teravainen in their bottom six forwards. Those guys have all gone on to be pretty impact players elsewhere - but they were great at outplaying the depth of other teams while with the 'Hawks.
The Oilers themselves had success with that in 1990 - the Kid Line was the fourth line and they generally weren't killing penalties, nor were they there just to try to stay level and throw a few hits. They helped us win series that year.
It's so clearly a flawed approach, and yet somehow the team is completely married to it and has continued to go that way even as they've shifted GMs. I'd love if someone could explain that stubbornness.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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Adam
Messages: 6884
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:15 |
Jesus.
I mean we know it's bad, but holy hell is it bad.
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Those numbers are the kind that get people cut even from beer league teams. "Doug sure is a nice guy, but he sucks and we lose games because they score every time he's on the ice...can we just tell him a veteran we used to play with moved back to town and we need to give him the spot?"
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7677
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:22 |
| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:15 |
Jesus.
I mean we know it's bad, but holy hell is it bad.
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Those numbers are the kind that get people cut even from beer league teams. "Doug sure is a nice guy, but he sucks and we lose games because they score every time he's on the ice...can we just tell him a veteran we used to play with moved back to town and we need to give him the spot?"
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My slow pitch team cut a 50 year old guy because he played second base like a broomstick stuck in a pail. It sucked but the team wanted to win and we had a better chance with random girl infielder than with him.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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Adam
Messages: 6884
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:26 |
| Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:22 |
| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:15 |
Jesus.
I mean we know it's bad, but holy hell is it bad.
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Those numbers are the kind that get people cut even from beer league teams. "Doug sure is a nice guy, but he sucks and we lose games because they score every time he's on the ice...can we just tell him a veteran we used to play with moved back to town and we need to give him the spot?"
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My slow pitch team cut a 50 year old guy because he played second base like a broomstick stuck in a pail. It sucked but the team wanted to win and we had a better chance with random girl infielder than with him.
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Yep - I've run a men's league hockey team for 20+ years. None of us are high level athletes, but there's still been a few players who a bunch of the team has lobbied me to send packing because they're not even good enough for whatever sucky division of beer league we're in. People want to win, and players generally know who's costing the team more than others.
There's such a divide that I do worry at some point that it causes issues with the team. You have the guys who everyone relies on to win and then the group that you rely on just not to screw it up. It's a weird relationship and it harkens back a little to Craig MacTavish and the whole "core players" and "non-core players". Total disaster for team culture when that happens.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7677
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:31 |
| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:26 |
| Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:22 |
| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:15 |
Jesus.
I mean we know it's bad, but holy hell is it bad.
|
Those numbers are the kind that get people cut even from beer league teams. "Doug sure is a nice guy, but he sucks and we lose games because they score every time he's on the ice...can we just tell him a veteran we used to play with moved back to town and we need to give him the spot?"
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My slow pitch team cut a 50 year old guy because he played second base like a broomstick stuck in a pail. It sucked but the team wanted to win and we had a better chance with random girl infielder than with him.
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Yep - I've run a men's league hockey team for 20+ years. None of us are high level athletes, but there's still been a few players who a bunch of the team has lobbied me to send packing because they're not even good enough for whatever sucky division of beer league we're in. People want to win, and players generally know who's costing the team more than others.
There's such a divide that I do worry at some point that it causes issues with the team. You have the guys who everyone relies on to win and then the group that you rely on just not to screw it up. It's a weird relationship and it harkens back a little to Craig MacTavish and the whole "core players" and "non-core players". Total disaster for team culture when that happens.
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Which is fine when you're half drunk playing sports with guys who have bad knees, but the Oilers are allegedly a professional sports team. We should expect them to be run just a little bit better over the same 20 year span.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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Adam
Messages: 6884
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:37 |
| Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:31 |
| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:26 |
| Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:22 |
| CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 16:15 |
Jesus.
I mean we know it's bad, but holy hell is it bad.
|
Those numbers are the kind that get people cut even from beer league teams. "Doug sure is a nice guy, but he sucks and we lose games because they score every time he's on the ice...can we just tell him a veteran we used to play with moved back to town and we need to give him the spot?"
|
My slow pitch team cut a 50 year old guy because he played second base like a broomstick stuck in a pail. It sucked but the team wanted to win and we had a better chance with random girl infielder than with him.
|
Yep - I've run a men's league hockey team for 20+ years. None of us are high level athletes, but there's still been a few players who a bunch of the team has lobbied me to send packing because they're not even good enough for whatever sucky division of beer league we're in. People want to win, and players generally know who's costing the team more than others.
There's such a divide that I do worry at some point that it causes issues with the team. You have the guys who everyone relies on to win and then the group that you rely on just not to screw it up. It's a weird relationship and it harkens back a little to Craig MacTavish and the whole "core players" and "non-core players". Total disaster for team culture when that happens.
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Which is fine when you're half drunk playing sports with guys who have bad knees, but the Oilers are allegedly a professional sports team. We should expect them to be run just a little bit better over the same 20 year span.
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The Oilers are basically the team manager who comes back and says "I know he sucks, but he's my cousin and I'll hear it from my mom and my aunt if I cut him."
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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We knew we weren't going for it this year. The team bought in to that strategy and honestly it's really nice to see everyone rowing in the same direction.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 715
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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Devin Shore clears waivers. Whew, I was worried.
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Adam
Messages: 6884
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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He's back! Recalled this morning!
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 715
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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Maybe his plane got re-routed.
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Oscargasm
Messages: 5743
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Tue, 14 February 2023 10:55 |
He's back! Recalled this morning!
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Solves the Vet issue w/ the Condors and keeps McDavid happy having a workout buddy remain in town.
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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Adam
Messages: 6884
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 14 February 2023 11:10 |
| Adam wrote on Tue, 14 February 2023 10:55 |
He's back! Recalled this morning!
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Solves the Vet issue w/ the Condors and keeps McDavid happy having a workout buddy remain in town.
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Apparently the wrist injury for Kostin will keep him out a little while, thus the recall.
EDIT - Apparently Kostin on the ice this morning, as is Yamamoto. Kane and Draisaitl aren't but who knows who's in or out. Not the guys tweeting this morning apparently. Maybe this is the day Puljujarvi gets waived...
However, I like to think of this as basically a free acquisition ahead of the trade deadline. The Oilers get a good soldier, veteran player who is good in the room and brings lots of intangibles - and we get him for free! Brilliant GMing by Holland.
[Updated on: Tue, 14 February 2023 11:57]
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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Kr55
Messages: 9840
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Tue, 14 February 2023 10:55 |
He's back! Recalled this morning!
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#TeamSpector will be very happy
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7677
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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He gone!
Back to the Condors this morning (according to 1260)
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 715
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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they fixed his plane.
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Adam
Messages: 6884
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 09:34 |
He gone!
Back to the Condors this morning (according to 1260)
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Team Spector will be devastated.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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