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 Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff
No Cups
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Reading the Stauffer tea leaves pays again!
That dude is a telegraph of the Oilers' front office par excellence!
2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!
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Ragnarok73
Messages: 2348
Registered: February 2011
2 Cups
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| vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:00 |
I don't hate the deal because I think it makes our team significantly worse, I hate it because I think the value was incredibly underwhelming.
Who knows. Maybe I vastly overvalued Taylor Hall. But it's still disappointing.
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I think the best way to look at it is not as just Hall for Larsson, but the overall change of Hall for Larsson, Lucic, and Demers. I'm 100% that Chia would never have pulled the trigger on this trade if he hadn't gotten an agreement made with both of the latter two guys.
"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.
5-14-6-1
"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."
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vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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| Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:02 |
| vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:00 |
I don't hate the deal because I think it makes our team significantly worse, I hate it because I think the value was incredibly underwhelming.
Who knows. Maybe I vastly overvalued Taylor Hall. But it's still disappointing.
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I think the best way to look at it is not as just Hall for Larsson, but the overall change of Hall for Larsson, Lucic, and Demers. I'm 100% that Chia would never have pulled the trigger on this trade if he hadn't gotten an agreement made with both of the latter two guys.
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Which is why I don't think our team will be made worse by this deal. I think it opens up the space we needed.
But if all you can get to clear up that space for Hall is Adam Larsson, it's underwhelming. New Jersey isn't giving us Demers and Lucic, they're giving us Adam Larsson, and I would have liked to see more for him.
No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.
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Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk
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Chia must be getting in early on the Nolan Patrick sweepstakes.
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George
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2009
No Cups
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Travis Yost @travisyost 3m3 minutes ago
Team executive just now: "They should've called us -- we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall."
I'm speechless.
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TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit
No Cups
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Had so much to do today....this has ruined my day and nothing is going to get done. I can usually find a sliver of hope in most trades even when I don't agree, but of all the guys we could have traded besides McDavid we trade the one other guy who doesn't need McDavid to score.
I feel bad for Larsson the amount of pressure on him to produce will be ridiculous and if he doesn't oh man will he be hated.
Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18
The future looks bright...
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K.McC#24
Messages: 2827
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA
2 Cups
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| Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:02 |
| vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:00 |
I don't hate the deal because I think it makes our team significantly worse, I hate it because I think the value was incredibly underwhelming.
Who knows. Maybe I vastly overvalued Taylor Hall. But it's still disappointing.
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I think the best way to look at it is not as just Hall for Larsson, but the overall change of Hall for Larsson, Lucic, and Demers. I'm 100% that Chia would never have pulled the trigger on this trade if he hadn't gotten an agreement made with both of the latter two guys.
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The best way to look at it if you want to cast a sunny light on a terrible trade is to look at other moves that haven't even been consummated yet......and Edmonton STILL will not have a top D-man, and has lost one of the 3 best LW's in the league.
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NetBOG
Messages: 2885
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
2 Cups
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Look to me like it's Larsson's contract they like as much as anything else. So long and so cheap.
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Seems like we got fleeced hard. Looks like the GM is going to overpay for fa's and put us in the position Boston was in when he left. So much for being patient. If this is patient then maybe he should have made the wrong deal at the draft. I can't imagine he didn't have more on the table then. Hall probably was a cancer but you get way more for him then a 3-4 defenseman. Maybe we need a new GM already.
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kungpaobenji27
Messages: 286
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas
No Cups
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| sloiler wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:55 |
On first thought this is a brutal trade, however I am going to play devils advocate here and throw in the intangibles that maybe we DON'T know.
a. Did Hall request a trade
b. Was Hall actually Cancer in the room ( I personally think that could be part of the problem)
c. The ego of Hall may not have fit behind the star power of McDavid
d. Lucic is probably confirmed as coming here or he wouldn't have done this
e. There is something else brewing involving defense, lets face it #1 D do not grow on trees so maybe this is only a piece.
F. Really I am like everyone else who rates our players a lot higher than the rest of the league. We have over valued most of them. Chia had to give up something to get something.
Final thought I think that b. is a really big problem, my niece used to date him.
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I think A was caused by C/D....B was possibly a factor (I think it may have been)
The heavy speculation of Lucic coming to Oilers in past few weeks was becoming more serious & with Pouliot/Maroon already on board at LW, Hall knew one of the 6 mil guys needed to go to pick up another Dman.
I personally like this deal because it's essentially - Hall out = Demers, Lucic, and Larsson in. Gotta clear up cap space somehow
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eedok
Messages: 21
Registered: March 2010
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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Haven't the Oilers learned from Fayne that you do not trade for the defenceman on NJD that's paired with Greene?
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Kr55
Messages: 9784
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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Any dirt being released on Hall yet? Slept with a teammates wife? McDavid said he was a jerk? Management heard him snorting something in a washroom? Or just the old lockerroom cancer thing?
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk
No Cups
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| George wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:08 |
Travis Yost @travisyost 3m3 minutes ago
Team executive just now: "They should've called us -- we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall."
I'm speechless.
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This is absolutely horrid. Of course they could have got a better package for Taylor Hall. This is worse than what PC did to the Bruins when he traded Seguin and that's gone down as one of the 2 or 3 worst trades of the last decade or so.
Now I know why my friends who are Bruin fans were jumping for joy when Neely sent him kicking rocks down the road. I feel stupid for arguing with them then that he was going to do good things for the Oilers.
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Rattimus
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2010
No Cups
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Yeah.... I never argued otherwise, it was a terrible trade. I said "Don't get me wrong, hate the trade".
FYI though, Larsson was playing 1st pairing in NJ and they've been one of the best defensive teams in the league for a few years now, not even accounting for Cory Schneider being a great goalie either.
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George
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2009
No Cups
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| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:15 |
Any dirt being released on Hall yet? Slept with a teammates wife? McDavid said he was a jerk? Management heard him snorting something in a washroom? Or just the old lockerroom cancer thing?
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I'm sure we're going to hear this from Stauffer and others in the following days as people try to put a positive spin on the trade...
Even if it were 100% true, the trade is still awful.
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stemhovlichski
Messages: 346
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR
No Cups
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| TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:08 |
I feel bad for Larsson the amount of pressure on him to produce will be ridiculous and if he doesn't oh man will he be hated.
Jordan Eberle 24
Justin Schultz 24
Taylor Hall 22
Leon Draisaitl 18
RNHopkins 21
Nail Yakupov 21
Darnell Nurse 19
Oscar Klefbom 21
The future looks bright...
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The future doesn't look quite as bright...
No idea why this trade took place. It looks like another case of asset mismanagement of the MacT-type. Hall's fire and compete always impressed me, especially his calling out coaches over stupid decisions.
Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010
"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015
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TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit
No Cups
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| mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:50 |
Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Demers
Davidson / Oesterle
Fayne
I mean, sure, I guess that's better than what we had last year. But that's not playoff calibre defense, and we just trade a franchise player and our absolute best trading chip to arrive at that place.
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Fayne instead of Nurse? Do you really believe Nurse is that far off he wouldn't crack that top 7. Besides wouldn't him playing and gaining experience be the best for his learning at this point?
Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18
The future looks bright...
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Team Dean
Messages: 22
Registered: April 2010
Location: Central Alberta
No Cups
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Fire Chia now.
He is a total idiot. This is the worst trade I have ever seen.
The #1LW in the game, for a guy who is not even good? Fayne is better than Larsson. No debate on that.
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Treads
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2006
Location: Calgary (which sucks)
No Cups
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Agree it's tough to swallow- but in terms of what the Oilers needed I'm not sure there was a better deal out there. If Subban went straight up for Weber, what would that have cost us? Hall plus the #4 at least. If you think about it from asset management POV, then you deal $6m in cap, get a top flight RW (Poolparty) and a #2/3 Dman and in the short term you get a little over a million in cap space. If Lucic signs then it gets a little more complicated but I think you have to do these deals at some point in the life of a team like the Oil.
Faster than Pronger's retreat
More powerful than David Frost's Ego,
Able to leap small d-men in a single bound...
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Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN
No Cups
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So where does this rank on the "worst trades in Oilers history" list?
1. Gretzky
2. Pronger for Lupul
3. Hall
4. Messier for Bernie Nicholls, etc
5. Weight for Hecht
??
I'm depressed
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Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk
No Cups
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| George wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:20 |
| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:15 |
Any dirt being released on Hall yet? Slept with a teammates wife? McDavid said he was a jerk? Management heard him snorting something in a washroom? Or just the old lockerroom cancer thing?
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I'm sure we're going to hear this from Stauffer and others in the following days as people try to put a positive spin on the trade...
Even if it were 100% true, the trade is still awful.
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There will be dirt your right. Your also right this is still a terrible trade. Even on this forum full of differing opinions especially on Taylor Hall I doubt you will find anybody to say that this is a good deal.
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Team Dean
Messages: 22
Registered: April 2010
Location: Central Alberta
No Cups
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Let me remind you that Garth Snow acquired two top dmen for picks! Picks!
He didnt have to trade Tavares!
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spoonful
Messages: 13
Registered: April 2008
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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| Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:24 |
Fire Chia now.
He is a total idiot. This is the worst trade I have ever seen.
The #1LW in the game, for a guy who is not even good? Fayne is better than Larsson. No debate on that.
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I think the problem is we over rate our wingers a tad. He wasn't good enough to make Team Canada yet he's the #1 LW in the game?
The Oilers lose this trade but they moved a forward for defense, a sorely needed move for this team. I think they're a better team next year because of this.
Klefbom-Larsson
Sekera-Demers
Davidson-Fayne
That's at least a playoff calibre defense. Having Klefbom remain healthy is vital going forward.
The Edmonton Oilers - "Craig's on it"
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Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk
No Cups
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| Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:27 |
Let me remind you that Garth Snow acquired two top dmen for picks! Picks!
He didnt have to trade Tavares!
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For the 1st time ever I will agree with Team Dean. Another tough day for Oiler fans.
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TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit
No Cups
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| stemhovlichski wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:21 |
| TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:08 |
I feel bad for Larsson the amount of pressure on him to produce will be ridiculous and if he doesn't oh man will he be hated.
Jordan Eberle 24
Justin Schultz 24
Taylor Hall 22
Leon Draisaitl 18
RNHopkins 21
Nail Yakupov 21
Darnell Nurse 19
Oscar Klefbom 21
The future looks bright...
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The future doesn't look quite as bright...
No idea why this trade took place. It looks like another case of asset mismanagement of the MacT-type. Hall's fire and compete always impressed me, especially his calling out coaches over stupid decisions.
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haha yea i needed to update that...but having McDavid on this roster as of now is reason enough for the future being bright...even if I do hate this trade. I just find it hard to believe we couldn't get more is all...Hall may not be Mcdavid but he is a franchise player and is only 24
Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18
The future looks bright...
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TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit
No Cups
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| Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:24 |
Fire Chia now.
He is a total idiot. This is the worst trade I have ever seen.
The #1LW in the game, for a guy who is not even good? Fayne is better than Larsson. No debate on that.
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Besides Fayne being better than Larsson...I agree 100% w/ everything you said
Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18
The future looks bright...
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Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN
No Cups
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I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.
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vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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I think Larsson is actually a very good d-man, and is going to turn out to be one of the pieces we needed, but I still think that for Hall, you should be getting more.
In terms of what the team needs, the trade makes sense. In terms of what you get for Taylor Hall? You at least need -something- more than Larsson.
No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.
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ryanc182
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer
No Cups
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Exactly my thoughts. Mr. Ovechkin might have something to say about this.
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Adam
Messages: 6866
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:50 |
Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Demers
Davidson / Oesterle
Fayne
I mean, sure, I guess that's better than what we had last year. But that's not playoff calibre defense, and we just trade a franchise player and our absolute best trading chip to arrive at that place.
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Just brutal. I hate that this happened. I hate that I saw this coming for weeks.
I hate that even the line being parroted by Stauffer now, I predicted: Don't think of it as Hall for Larsson, if we get Lucic, then think of it as Hall for Lucic and Larsson.
Shero took Chiarelli to the woodshed on this. Just terrible, terrible trade.
I think we can expect the character assassination of Hall through the Edmonton media to start very soon, talking about him as not a leader, a bad influence in the dressing room, unhappy to be #2, etc. etc.
I don't care. He was the second best player on the team, and we've traded him for someone who might not be our second best DEFENCEMAN now.
I wanted the team to draft Larsson for much of 2011, but he has topped out at 26 points in a season so far. He almost never scores goals. He's never managed to crack the rotation for powerplay on New Jersey where they had NO ONE who could put up points from the blueline. And he basically slotted in to the same spot where Fayne looked really good.
There is no excuses for this trade. It becomes clear that that same old group just added a buddy to the playhouse in Oilers management. They're all incompetent.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky
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ryanc182
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer
No Cups
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Rumour has it Klowe is behind this. He wants #4 retired.
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Mike
Messages: 1099
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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| Red Rage wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:33 |
I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.
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Big overpayment last year for Reinhart, absolutely stupid overpayment for Larsson this year.
Dougie Hamilton for for a couple of picks, but Adam freaking Larsson costs Taylor Hall? Insanity.
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mazankowski
Messages: 27
Registered: June 2006
Location: Kelowna BC
No Cups
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Did anyone hear Stauffer say St Louis wanted Hall and #4 for the big one. I can only assume that's Petro. Hmmmmm......
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smyth260
Messages: 958
Registered: November 2007
No Cups
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That can't be true. Ask Taylor to change his number then, instead of trading away your best forward outside McDavid.
Clean house or bust
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Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006
No Cups
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Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.
Something weird is going on here.
"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015
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spoonful
Messages: 13
Registered: April 2008
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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| vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:35 |
I think Larsson is actually a very good d-man, and is going to turn out to be one of the pieces we needed, but I still think that for Hall, you should be getting more.
In terms of what the team needs, the trade makes sense. In terms of what you get for Taylor Hall? You at least need -something- more than Larsson.
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I completely agree with you.
The Edmonton Oilers - "Craig's on it"
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mazankowski
Messages: 27
Registered: June 2006
Location: Kelowna BC
No Cups
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| Skoobz wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:44 |
Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.
Something weird is going on here.
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Did Hall wheel his daughter or something?
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stotto
Messages: 49
Registered: November 2015
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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Brutal.
This has mismanagement written all over it.
The Oilers are bad team and without Hall they are much worse.
Hard to fathom this deal unless we get something else in return besides Larsson.
I hope Chia knows what he's doing.
I wish Hall much success and hope he gets 120 points for the Devils
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TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit
No Cups
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| spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:28 |
| Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:24 |
Fire Chia now.
He is a total idiot. This is the worst trade I have ever seen.
The #1LW in the game, for a guy who is not even good? Fayne is better than Larsson. No debate on that.
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I think the problem is we over rate our wingers a tad. He wasn't good enough to make Team Canada yet he's the #1 LW in the game?
The Oilers lose this trade but they moved a forward for defense, a sorely needed move for this team. I think they're a better team next year because of this.
Klefbom-Larsson
Sekera-Demers
Davidson-Fayne
That's at least a playoff calibre defense. Having Klefbom remain healthy is vital going forward.
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This is only assuming we sign Demers though, and you're right I'm sure we do overrate our wingers because Jamie Benn is probably the best LW, but he was definitely snubbed by team Canada because no other Canadian LW outscored him (Besides Benn). He's definitely one of the best LW in the league and that is still saying something...can you really say that about Larsson? Also it's not like Taylor is old he's only 24.
Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18
The future looks bright...
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mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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| TheJesman wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:23 |
| mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:50 |
Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Demers
Davidson / Oesterle
Fayne
I mean, sure, I guess that's better than what we had last year. But that's not playoff calibre defense, and we just trade a franchise player and our absolute best trading chip to arrive at that place.
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Fayne instead of Nurse? Do you really believe Nurse is that far off he wouldn't crack that top 7. Besides wouldn't him playing and gaining experience be the best for his learning at this point?
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I'm of the belief that since he has limited AHL-eligibility left, it would be wise for them to learn from Gagner, Paajarvi, etc. and actually allow him to develop in the AHL. He *might* be better than Fayne right here, right now, but I think it's best for him and the Oilers to develop in the AHL while he can. He struggled at the end of last year.
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