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Oilers » So when do we bury Campbell in the minors?

So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813866]	Thu, 10 November 2022 18:45

HamBlaster
Messages: 967
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

This guy has proven to be a terrible signing. He's not a good goalie and isn't getting better.

He's honestly just not good.

When do we send him down to try to become the goalie we needed and the team paid for?

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813867 is a reply to message #813866 ]	Thu, 10 November 2022 18:46

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

I honestly don’t think they will any time soon. If we do that who splits time with Skinner? We have kind of dug ourselves a hole. Call Kosk back maybe? At least he was capable of a good game here and there. But you’re right, Campbell just seems like he will never get it together

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813891 is a reply to message #813866 ]	Thu, 10 November 2022 19:42

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 256
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

This is the nonsense that will make players hate it here.
Our defence has not been good.. Sure Campbell has not looked good either but it’s not all on him.

Asking for Koskinen back, oh hell no.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813893 is a reply to message #813891 ]	Thu, 10 November 2022 19:45

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 02:42

This is the nonsense that will make players hate it here.
Our defence has not been good.. Sure Campbell has not looked good either but it’s not all on him.

Asking for Koskinen back, oh hell no.

It might be overrreaction I get it…. The defense has been brutal there is no doubt about it, but Campbell can’t even make some routine saves. I don’t know how long we give him….. it’s frustrating.

With that said, I agree. We just aren’t that good. We got beat badly tonight

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813904 is a reply to message #813891 ]	Thu, 10 November 2022 21:02

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Thu, 10 November 2022 19:42

This is the nonsense that will make players hate it here.
Our defence has not been good.. Sure Campbell has not looked good either but it’s not all on him.

Asking for Koskinen back, oh hell no.

Yes, this is a ridiculous take.

Campbell is struggling and you can see the confidence level is low. He's here for the long haul though so better hope this is just a bad start - it certainly wouldn't be the only time an Oilers goalie started poorly and then improved...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813906 is a reply to message #813904 ]	Thu, 10 November 2022 21:54

HamBlaster
Messages: 967
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

I don't care if a player reads this and gets a pouty lip about it. He's been terrible so far.

He signed a big deal to play for this team, and is bringing his F game. Guy needs to show that he can earn that contract. Either bring it, at least a C game... or go down the minors and fix it.

We give these millionaires a lot of leash. Sometimes they need to be called out for being not good enough, especially when it's been a pretty lengthy stretch of awful play. One good game against Tampa is not a trend.

It's not all on him, of course... but our backup goalie is playing like the clear #1 right now and Campbell is playing like a #4.

[Updated on: Thu, 10 November 2022 21:56]

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813908 is a reply to message #813866 ]	Thu, 10 November 2022 22:30

MJ
Messages: 266
Registered: November 1997
Location: Victoria

No Cups

This is quite the hot take. I appreciate your passion. I entirely disagree with your premise. Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I don't think he's as bad as we've seen so far.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813909 is a reply to message #813908 ]	Thu, 10 November 2022 23:59

HamBlaster
Messages: 967
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

Maybe he isn't. I hope I'm the one that is wrong.

He needs to snap out of this funk, or the signing will be a boat anchor / albatross of a contract that this organization can't afford. Not if they want to keep Connor and Leon around these parts beyond the end of their current contracts.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813910 is a reply to message #813908 ]	Fri, 11 November 2022 00:07

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

It's not that hot of a take. Campbell had never been a full time starter, never mind a full time starter in a high pressure market that has hopes and dreams of being a Stanley Cup contender. Never been a number 1 starter other than in Toronto where he failed to the point the Leafs (Dubas) decided it wasn't a good value bet. With Oilers being a team heavily reliant on their top two, it's not outrageous to notice the bad D and bad forward depth that inevitably had negative impact on goaltending. Can Campbell cut it here for five years? Three years? These are fair questions when it's hard place to play and a hard team to play in front of.

So while it isn't time to cut bait and admit defeat, Campbell was always a goaltender with longer odds than you'd want for a five year deal. The idea that he's going to be buried or bought out after 3 seasons isn't exactly wildly out of control. The idea that it might not be three is something that can be discussed.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813915 is a reply to message #813910 ]	Fri, 11 November 2022 06:16

g2k
Messages: 2810
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

2 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 00:07

Much of what you say is true, but talk of burying him in the minors is total alarmist chicken little speak.

Yeah, bad bad goalie. Look at what you did. Shame on you! Signing that long contract. How dare you!!!

That will solve things here. Possibly one of the lamest thread starters I’ve seen here in years.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813921 is a reply to message #813915 ]	Fri, 11 November 2022 10:39

bigEfromGP
Messages: 815
Registered: July 2006
Location: GP, AB

No Cups

g2k wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 06:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 00:07

I think burying talk is crazy, but he certainly hasn't come even close to meeting the expectations I had this summer. We all better hope he finds his game because there is almost no options if he doesn't.

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813922 is a reply to message #813866 ]	Fri, 11 November 2022 11:36

inverno76
Messages: 2332
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

The worst part is that expectations were/are low. Just provide average goaltending 90% of the time.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813930 is a reply to message #813915 ]	Fri, 11 November 2022 14:38

HamBlaster
Messages: 967
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

You're pretty cool. Lame my rear end. It's a legit thing to discuss.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813932 is a reply to message #813922 ]	Fri, 11 November 2022 15:09

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 11:36

The worst part is that expectations were/are low. Just provide average goaltending 90% of the time.

If you look at Campbell's game log with the Leafs... this is why they let him go. The man is red hot or ice cold. They never knew what they were going to get, so they got rid of him. If the Oilers don't find a goalie whisperer, there might be some troubles coming.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813936 is a reply to message #813906 ]	Fri, 11 November 2022 17:01

Hemmer2Eberle
Messages: 73
Registered: March 2010
Location: St. Albert, Alberta

No Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 10 November 2022 21:54

Everyone got all whiny when Smith would yell at the Dmen in front of him, but can we blame him anymore? Maybe his yelling at them made them feel accountable, and they tried more in front of him... Cause Campbell's nice guy approach sure hasn't worked.

Smith stole games for us, Campbell however hasn't even come close.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813940 is a reply to message #813930 ]	Sat, 12 November 2022 02:05

g2k
Messages: 2810
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

2 Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 14:38

You're pretty cool. Lame my rear end. It's a legit thing to discuss.

More so on HF I would contest, but hey, knock yourself out, if you feel he should be punished or sent this message.

As “lame” as this might seem to an alarmist, I don’t feel burying Jack Campbell in the minors right now is going to improve the team GAA. Unless there is another upstart goalie in the system I have no idea about.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #813941 is a reply to message #813932 ]	Sat, 12 November 2022 07:08

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Campbell is what he is. Needs a decent defense in front of him, and we don’t have that

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814018 is a reply to message #813941 ]	Sun, 13 November 2022 08:40

Mike
Messages: 1390
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Who knows, maybe he does the reverse of what he did last year - started as a Vezina front runner and ended up as barely a backup level goalie. At least we need to hope, otherwise that contract becomes a problem real quick.

I was encouraged by his outing in Tampa. He was great in that one. So we know he has the ability to do it. Just need to figure out how to do it consistently.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814025 is a reply to message #814018 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 09:29

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 759
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Guys, relax. Our savior is already on the team. Now that Kane is on LTIR we have cap space to activate MIKE SMITH! Yay.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814026 is a reply to message #814025 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 09:48

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

So 16 games into the season and the start of his career as an Oiler and Campbell needs to be sent to buried in the minors. I've also seen multiple tweets over the last few weeks about him needing to be bought out already. WOW!! This fan base is a special breed at times, let me tell you. Saros, finalist last year for the vezina rocked a .333 % November the 8th and is at .901 right now. I wonder if his fan base wants him punted into the sun?

It hasn't gone as planned for Campbell. He needs to play WAY better. I will say that the team as a whole has mostly played like a pile of crap in front of him just about all of his starts. I think all of their absolute worst team games where when he was in net, which doesn't help his stats. I believe the team plays completely different in front of Campbell vs Skinner which is baffling to me. You'd think when a goalie is fighting it a bit, the team would buckle down defensively to help him but they seem to play the opposite which is loosen it up way more than they do with Skinner. So I think the team needs to own a lot of Campbell's stats but I 100% agree he hasn't been very good. I also think he can turn it around.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814027 is a reply to message #813930 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 10:49

Steve
Messages: 113
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 13:38

You're pretty cool. Lame my rear end. It's a legit thing to discuss.

Discussing who should get more starts is a legit thing to discuss (right now it's Skinner, obviously). Sending Campbell down to the minors is NOT a legit thing to discuss.

Campbell's struggles are mental. He is the more athletic goalie, and when he is on his game he is one of the best in the league. Have you never seen that? He stoned the Oilers more than once when he played for the Leafs. Do you have poor memory, or are you choosing to ignore his good outings? Currently he needs to work on moving less and squaring up to the shooter (i.e., take more in the chest instead of trying to catch everything). His rebounds might suffer in the short term but it will get his confidence up again. The defense also needs to play more controlled in front of him to help him along. It seems like they play more loose in front of him, expecting him to make the acrobatic saves that he is capable of (which Skinner isn't). An easy game where he only needs to make 20 easy saves for a win would go a long way help his confidence.

Skinner is also benefitting from the league not having a book on him yet. He's big and he plays his angles well (reminds me of JS Giguere in style), but he's not perfect and I think he will have long rough patches too. For one, he goes down too early and leaves holes beside his ears.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814028 is a reply to message #814027 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 11:01

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Steve wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 10:49

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 13:38

You're pretty cool. Lame my rear end. It's a legit thing to discuss.

The question isn't about burying him now. I don't think anyone is saying the Oilers should cut bait now and grab Laurent Broissoit off of waivers, but projecting that this may need to be discussed is legit.

This is because his struggles are largely mental. Campbell is 30 years old and if he hasn't figured out how to mentally handle being an NHL goaltender, it's fair to ask if this will happening the future. The compounding issue is the fact he's only been a starter for one season and other short bursts where he wasn't good enough to stay a starter. THIS got him a 5 year starter contract with the Oilers. Clearly he has the physical ability and we know he has been good, but if he doesn't figure out the mental part of being a 55 game starter how long do the Oilers pretend he still might be?

That answer is not needed today, but it might be needed far sooner than we think.

Skinner might also not be the answer.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814029 is a reply to message #814026 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 11:04

Mike
Messages: 1390
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 12:48

I believe the team plays completely different in front of Campbell vs Skinner which is baffling to me. You'd think when a goalie is fighting it a bit, the team would buckle down defensively to help him but they seem to play the opposite which is loosen it up way more than they do with Skinner.

I've seen you say this a few times. What do you mean by this? I don't see it, and the stats don't seem to support what you are saying. So just wondering if you could quantify what you are saying in any way, or is it more just a feeling?

Because if I look at their numbers, Skinner faces on average 11% more shots than Campbell (250 in 403 minutes for SS VS 307 in 547 minutes for JC). If you just look at complete games (basically remove Oct 15 against the Flames) same thing - 36.5 shots/game for SS vs 32.8 for JC.

High danger shots 67 for Skinner vs 81 for Campbell - so one every 6.0 minutes for Skinner VS 1 every 6.8 minutes for Campbell. Rush attempts? 17 for SS, 19 for JC. So one every 23.7 minutes for SS, and every 28.8 minutes for JC.

I see absolutely nothing between watching the games and looking up the numbers right now to support what you are saying. In fact, I've seen the opposite, and the numbers seem to confirm what I think I saw. On average, Skinner is facing about 11% more shots, high danger shots, and almost 18% more rush attempts than Campbell.

And just looking at the most basic of numbers - Campbell is amongst the worst in the league right now in GAA - 5th worst with 4.27. Only Gibson in Anaheim is worse of goalies who have played as many games as him. And he's 4th worst in save % at .873, but nobody with more than 8 games is worse.

As for the other guy - Skinner is now 6th in save % at .932, and 16th in GAA with 2.53.

I am with you in that I am cheering for Campbell and want him to do well. More games like the one in Tampa and we should be in good shape. But there are no two ways about it - he has really not been very good this year and needs to be a lot better. And your assertion that it's because the team plays looser in front of him I don't think is accurate.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814030 is a reply to message #814027 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 11:04

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Steve wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 10:49

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 13:38

You're pretty cool. Lame my rear end. It's a legit thing to discuss.

Not passing the blame from Campbell as he has to be better but I wonder if part of his struggles are a mindset of him thinking he has to make miraculous saves based on how the team plays? You watch how they play in front of Campbell and the amount of wide open guys that are just standing near the goal ready to fire is ridiculous which I believe you don't see when Skinner is in. So is Campbell at times not as set as he should be because in his mind he's thinking I have to get across in a hurry to try and stop the wide open guy that no one bothers to cover?

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814031 is a reply to message #814028 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 11:07

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

All that being said, Campbell is putting up career worst numbers right now. Assuming this isn't entirely a function of Oilers defense, he should regress to his mean which will allow us to have a much more productive conversation on the matter. His numbers with the Leafs last year are probably good enough to keep him as a 50/50 starter for the bulk of the term of his contract. I see this as a more likely outcome than him remaining at career worst levels and being buried.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814032 is a reply to message #814028 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 14:20

Steve
Messages: 113
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 10:01

Steve wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 10:49

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 13:38

You're pretty cool. Lame my rear end. It's a legit thing to discuss.

I thought we were discussing sending him down soon. That seems to be what HamBlaster is advocating for anyway.

I think the Oilers give him at least a season and a half before giving up on him completely, which is what sending him to the minors would be doing. And he would need to be atrocious for that entire length of time to give up on him.

I expect he will find his way and post career average numbers, recognizing that his average has a larger variance than a lot of goalies (very hot and very cold). If he doesn't prove to be a good starter I still think we have a good 1A/1B tandem. The coaches will need to learn how to deploy these guys better, and they can't be afraid to pull a guy if he doesn't look like he's sharp.

I don't think this becomes a big issue until Skinner makes the tandem too expensive, which is a big IF in the first place. They should let both guys play the full season.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814033 is a reply to message #814029 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 14:30

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 12:48

When I watch the Oilers play Campbell, I see way more times when guys are left unmarked vs Skinner. I tend to see more wide open looks when Campbell is in vs Skinner. I see more breakaways given up against Campbell vs Skinner. This is just how I see it. I heard an interview a couple of days ago from Leon saying the team leaves Campbell out to dry vs Skinner. This is coming from his mouth. So..... the free numbers you found don't back up what one of the Oilers stars says they are doing confused2

I am not arguing with you one bit, it just looks liked that to me and I am not saying that to stand up for Campbell, he flat out needs to be better. But I am trying to think of a game where Skinner was in where the team laid and absolute stinker in front of him and I can't think of one.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814034 is a reply to message #814032 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 15:37

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Steve wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 14:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 10:01

Steve wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 10:49

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 11 November 2022 13:38

You're pretty cool. Lame my rear end. It's a legit thing to discuss.

Agreed.
Any talk of big changes now is premature. That's saying he's not only lost the starting job before American Thanksgiving but also the back up spot. I don't even know who the goaltenders in Bako are right now and I have no intention of learning their names any time soon. Soup and Stew. Ride and die.

I'll add this to my list of Oilers-related worries. Any tweak to a hamstring brings a very scary goaltending situation with it.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814036 is a reply to message #814033 ]	Mon, 14 November 2022 19:17

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

I think what he means is teams have more confidence if the goalie is playing well. I think oilers play the same regardless who is in net , but I am sure having a capable goalie in net makes players feel a bit better and a bit more loose. Campbell this year has sucked and leaves no room for error for the oilers. Probably makes things a bit more tense

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814043 is a reply to message #814033 ]	Tue, 15 November 2022 09:57

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 14:30

Very interesting discussion. I feel like I have seen what RDO is seeing too - seems like guys just left alone by the D in wide open shooting spots more often with Campbell than with Skinner. But then the stats Mike shared sure don't seem to flesh it out. I'm confused but not worried.

Also, something is definitely up with Campbell's glove. Pros don't look at their glove after a goal like he has been for nothing.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814044 is a reply to message #814029 ]	Tue, 15 November 2022 10:10

Kr55
Messages: 10692
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 11:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 12:48

Just an image of the 5v5 stats for everyone to look over:

https://i.ibb.co/r30Sf9v/Edm-Goalies.jpg

Poor high danger sav% I believe was the critique of Campbell before we got him.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814046 is a reply to message #814043 ]	Tue, 15 November 2022 11:08

Mike
Messages: 1390
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 15 November 2022 12:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 November 2022 14:30

Though I might, I don't think I'm intentionally skewing the numbers to make them tell a certain story, because honestly, the story I want to be able to tell is that both our goalies are fine. Especially the one we just signed to a 5 year deal.

I'm fairly new to that site and those numbers, and maybe there are other metrics I didn't take into account. I think I used everything that seemed pertinent, but maybe I missed something. I love playing with numbers, so if there are other numbers I could look at that I would love to hear about it!

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814048 is a reply to message #814044 ]	Tue, 15 November 2022 17:32

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

I still think he gets it together but realistically how long do we give him??

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Re: So when do we bury Campbell in the minors? [message #814050 is a reply to message #814048 ]	Tue, 15 November 2022 18:07

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

tardigrade81 wrote on Tue, 15 November 2022 17:32

I still think he gets it together but realistically how long do we give him??

Worst case scenario? Two years at a minimum. More likely is it extends into the third year.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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