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Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813582]	Tue, 08 November 2022 02:00

OilFans
Messages: 1527
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

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2022-23 Regular Season
Tuesday, November 8, 2022 Edmonton 3 @ Tampa Bay 2 Win
Thursday, January 19, 2023 Tampa Bay 3 @ Edmonton 5 Win
Home Record: 1-0-0 Road Record: 1-0-0 Overall Record: 2-0-0
Home / Road Goals For: 5/3 Total: 8
Home / Road Goals Against: 3/2 Total: 5

2021-22 Regular Season
Wednesday, February 23, 2022 Edmonton 3 @ Tampa Bay 5 Loss
Saturday, March 12, 2022 Tampa Bay 1 @ Edmonton 4 Win
Home Record: 1-0-0 Road Record: 0-1-0 Overall Record: 1-1-0
Home / Road Goals For: 4/3 Total: 7
Home / Road Goals Against: 1/5 Total: 6

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813585 is a reply to message #813582 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 08:51

CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

That 5 game winning streak turned into a 3 game slide very quickly. Not a great time to be in fighting through the southeast division road trip.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813602 is a reply to message #813582 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 11:58

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4392
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Which Guy with Zero Goals scores tonight?[ 16 vote(s) ]

1. Yam-NO 1 / 6%
2. Hollowon't 1 / 6%
3. Shore.. LOL! 1 / 6%
4. Bouchard 7 / 44%
5. Kulack 0 / 0%
6. Nemo 0 / 0%
7. Murray 0 / 0%
8. Foegle 3 / 19%
9. Gene Principe 1 / 6%
10. Louie Debrusk 1 / 6%
11. Jack Michaels 0 / 0%
12. Bob Stauffer 1 / 6%

Oiler defence will be spending a lot of time in their own end tonight.. poor Campbell will need to see a shrink after this one!

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813603 is a reply to message #813602 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 12:04

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 11:58

Oiler defence will be spending a lot of time in their own end tonight.. poor Campbell will need to see a shrink after this one!

I didn't vote for him but as much as you laugh, if I had to pick, I would probably take Shore over Yamo to score first with how they play. Shore might fluke one in. Yamo would actually have to shoot the puck first to have a chance at getting a fluky one.

I picked Foegele because maybe he will want to make up for his horrendous give away.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813605 is a reply to message #813603 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 12:23

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

The Oilers need to change up who's on the PK to shake things up.

I would try Foegele. I get he had a bad giveaway but he played on the PK in Carolina so try him.
I keep seeing how much of an elite defender JP is. Well throw him out there, let's see if he is.

What do you have to lose, give up more PP goals? They gave up 4 last game.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813616 is a reply to message #813605 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 13:20

Skookum Jim
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Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 11:23

The Oilers need to change up who's on the PK to shake things up.

I would try Foegele. I get he had a bad giveaway but he played on the PK in Carolina so try him.
I keep seeing how much of an elite defender JP is. Well throw him out there, let's see if he is.

What do you have to lose, give up more PP goals? They gave up 4 last game.

I noticed the teams that have the best PK vs. the Oilers have PK'ers that are quick, and have some degree of physicality to take people off of pucks, and able to put constant pressure on the puck carrier..

I don't think Foegle is fast enough.. McLeod is effective because of his speed, but he can't (or won't) take guys off the puck.. Ryan, Yammo.. too slow and small.. RNH is good enough.. same with Hyman.. the defence is a complete mess though.. pretty weak presence over all.. mostly lack of smarts..

Here's some interesting stats..

Oilers are tied for 4th in the NHL in no. of defensive zone giveaways

Rebound shots against.. Oilers are 5th

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813617 is a reply to message #813616 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 13:29

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 13:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 11:23

The Oilers need to change up who's on the PK to shake things up.

I would try Foegele. I get he had a bad giveaway but he played on the PK in Carolina so try him.
I keep seeing how much of an elite defender JP is. Well throw him out there, let's see if he is.

What do you have to lose, give up more PP goals? They gave up 4 last game.

I noticed the teams that have the best PK vs. the Oilers have PK'ers that are quick, and have some degree of physicality to take people off of pucks, and able to put constant pressure on the puck carrier..

I don't think Foegle is fast enough.. McLeod is effective because of his speed, but he can't (or won't) take guys off the puck.. Ryan, Yammo.. too slow and small.. RNH is good enough.. same with Hyman.. the defence is a complete mess though.. pretty weak presence over all.. mostly lack of smarts..

Here's some interesting stats..

Oilers are tied for 4th in the NHL in no. of defensive zone giveaways

Rebound shots against.. Oilers are 5th

The Canes a hardcore advanced stats team thought Foegele could do it and I think he skates pretty well. Just my opinion but I do agree that you need to be quick but I don't think you necessarily need to be quick in that you will win a race down the ice. I think you need to move well, get your sticks in the lane and above all else be willing to get into peoples faces to take away time and space. As you mentioned, McLeod skating speed wise can get to areas but to date, he doesn't seem prepared enough engage people. If there is a puck in the corner and it's a 50-50 battle, I don't expect McLeod to ever come out with it. At 6'2, almost 210, he should be able to win a lot of puck battles but I don't think he is willing.

I do think Ryan is scrappy enough but I think his size limits him at times. I am starting to really wonder about Yamo and his size. Is he just too small? Smaller guys can play BUT generally I think the true good small players who can play well, tend to be really good at something. With Yamo, he's small but on top of that, I wouldn't say he's really good at anything. So that's 2 strikes in my books.

But at this point, I would try anything because right now the guys that are going out there aren't getting it done. Maybe they are just so beaten down mentally when it come to the PK and lack so much confidence, that a change out for a game or 2 might give them a refresh.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813625 is a reply to message #813617 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:09

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

First time poster here folks!

I’m very active in Oilers HF boards! Been browsing this forum for a while. You folks seem like good people! Been an Oilers fan for 17 years (I was 18 at the time, was our Cup appearance year) I live in Regina, Sk. I enjoy chocolate pudding, and drinking various IPA’s. I have a 3 year old kid who I’m trying to get into hockey, another kid on the way in February.

Now then, you’re all caught up on my life. Can the Oilers turn this little losing streak around? Last night was horrendous. 4 PP goals…. Need more discipline and to kill a PP here and there.

Hoping Soup has a big game for us tonight. He’s more than due for a good one

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813630 is a reply to message #813625 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:18

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

God. The 2006 run was 17 seasons ago. How depressing.

Welcome to the forum! They'll end the losing streak eventually but the Oilers are who they are. A team that has to outscore their many obvious flaws.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813633 is a reply to message #813630 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:25

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 14:18

God. The 2006 run was 17 seasons ago. How depressing.

Welcome to the forum! They'll end the losing streak eventually but the Oilers are who they are. A team that has to outscore their many obvious flaws.

Chris Pronger's rumoured (but likely non-existent) bastard would almost be of age!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813637 is a reply to message #813633 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:34

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 14:25

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 14:18

God. The 2006 run was 17 seasons ago. How depressing.

Welcome to the forum! They'll end the losing streak eventually but the Oilers are who they are. A team that has to outscore their many obvious flaws.

Chris Pronger's rumoured (but likely non-existent) bastard would almost be of age!

Yeah, the kid I had who was born during game 1 of the western final is *checks notes* 16 now. She and her mother have never been impressed when I tell the story of the mother in law kicking me out of the hospital room to watch the third period so she could get full access to the newborn.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813636 is a reply to message #813630 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:28

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Tell me about it! We have last year I guess now to kind of smile about (granted the sweep kind of sucked against Colorado) I can't wait for this team to get back to the finals again.....

Defense is the biggest thing to improve.... 35 plus shots on our goalies each game is depressing to see.... No wonder they burn out by playoff time. Maybe a health mix of Campbell and Skinner starting, they won't be so tired by playoffs..... Assuming we make it.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813634 is a reply to message #813625 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:26

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

I fell asleep in the third last night, but I think Pulji had three shots on net last night.... so that's a plus..... I think everyone and their dog have been waiting for him to get going this year.... If him and Yamamoto can start producing the depth to this team would be dangerous (not that scoring was an issue last night). I know we have much bigger problems like the defense, and trying to kill a PP.

I'm not expecting a win tonight on a back to back and against a decently hot Tampa team, but I do think if Campbell can finally have a decent game we can give Tampa a hell of a game (I'm hoping) with Florida and Carolina coming up, we need to win one of these or it's going to get ugly fast.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813638 is a reply to message #813634 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:44

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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If Yamo is on the team next year, I think they need to have a very real, strong conversation with him about how he trains in the offseason. He got off to a slow start last year and is even worse this year. Something isn't adding up to me.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813639 is a reply to message #813638 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:47

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
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Agreed..... He is a streaky player, when he gets going he is awesome.... but man he has been cold as ice this year. It's frustrating.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813640 is a reply to message #813639 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:50

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

I thought he was pretty good at the start of seasons until this one. I seem to remember us talking about how he was a good early year players because the game isn't as tough. Then, as we get into the stretch drive, he starts getting muscled out of the play more.

Of course he had a decent post season last year, so that theory got blown out of the water.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813641 is a reply to message #813640 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:56

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

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I won't write him off yet, I think it will be similar to last year when he gets a goal he will get hot.... He is one of those players built on momentum it seems.... But eventually him and JP need to start producing, especially in the playoffs..... We have seen what happens when you leave it to your 2 stars and they got cold what can happen like against Winnipeg. Lucky for us we have Hyman and Kane who can take some of the load now, and RNH is having a nice year. We have enough scoring depth, but getting JP and Yams going would signify a solid year (and of course some decent goaltending from Campbell at some point)

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813642 is a reply to message #813641 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 14:56

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

delete

[Updated on: Tue, 08 November 2022 15:07]

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813644 is a reply to message #813641 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:03

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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tardigrade81 wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 14:56

I won't write him off yet, I think it will be similar to last year when he gets a goal he will get hot.... He is one of those players built on momentum it seems.... But eventually him and JP need to start producing, especially in the playoffs..... We have seen what happens when you leave it to your 2 stars and they got cold what can happen like against Winnipeg. Lucky for us we have Hyman and Kane who can take some of the load now, and RNH is having a nice year. We have enough scoring depth, but getting JP and Yams going would signify a solid year (and of course some decent goaltending from Campbell at some point)

When Yamo and JP were making 1.175 a piece and they got off to slow start of went into long slumps, it's easier to take. When they are making 3.1 and 3 mill and only have 1 goal 4 assists between them, they have to produce something now. Doing the odd subtle play once in awhile isn't enough anymore. You can get away with it when you make barely over 1 mill, not when you make 3 mill.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813645 is a reply to message #813644 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:07

tardigrade81
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Well said, completely agree.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813646 is a reply to message #813645 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:18

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
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Alright folks, I am leaving work shortly.... Going home, ordering a pizza and getting ready for the game. Look forward to chatting more during the game.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813647 is a reply to message #813646 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:22

clutchlikeeberle
Messages: 252
Registered: April 2012

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8 to 2 Tampa. Another stinker from our 5 mill ECHL guy.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813648 is a reply to message #813645 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:23

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I am hoping the coaching staff shows JP a video clips of Hyman last game. Go to the net, park your big body in there, create chaos, good things will happen. Above all, if you are going to be on McD's line, get him the puck quickly, go to the net with your stick on the ice and look for a pass. Keep it simple. Hyman plays a very simple, straight line game that works. No reason JP who's a big man and skates well can't play similar to Hyman. Straight lines, go to the net!

For Yamo. Shoot the puck. Stop taking bad penalties and shoot the damn puck. You are on the 4th line at the moment, your job is to keep it simple. Get pucks in deep, forecheck hard, put everything on goal. It's not show time on the 4th line. IT's simple hockey, get everything you can on goal, crash the net, look for rebounds. If Yamo takes another bad penalty, I would bench him for at least a period, maybe more. Their PK is struggling, the last thing they need is more lazy penalties. He's one of the worst for taking bad penalties. The message isn't getting through to him. Time to make an example. It has to stop!

Foegele and his whole line. See above. McLeod, you are 6'2, almost 210 that skates like the wind. The fact he has only 9 shots in 13 games with that much speed is mind boggling. Take it hard to the goal, shoot the puck. Foegele. Get the damn puck out of your zone. You aren't McDavid, you are Warren Freaking Foegele. Get the puck out. Get pucks on goal, go to the net.

When you are in the top 6 and you want to try more pretty goals, fine. When you are in the bottom 6 and get 12 mins a night tops, keep it simple. Straight lines, skate hard, forecheck hard, finish a check, get pucks on goal, look for rebounds.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813650 is a reply to message #813648 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:28

Dragon_Matt
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I hope Hyman outskates everybody like he did Ovechkin on RNH's first goal. Every part of that play from leaving our end was beautiful.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813651 is a reply to message #813650 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:31

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:28

I hope Hyman outskates everybody like he did Ovechkin on RNH's first goal. Every part of that play from leaving our end was beautiful.

I wish is effort would rub off on a few others. Maybe it has with Nuge because I can't remember the last time he's looked this good.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813655 is a reply to message #813648 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:37

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:23

I am hoping the coaching staff shows JP a video clips of Hyman last game. Go to the net, park your big body in there, create chaos, good things will happen. Above all, if you are going to be on McD's line, get him the puck quickly, go to the net with your stick on the ice and look for a pass. Keep it simple. Hyman plays a very simple, straight line game that works. No reason JP who's a big man and skates well can't play similar to Hyman. Straight lines, go to the net!

For Yamo. Shoot the puck. Stop taking bad penalties and shoot the damn puck. You are on the 4th line at the moment, your job is to keep it simple. Get pucks in deep, forecheck hard, put everything on goal. It's not show time on the 4th line. IT's simple hockey, get everything you can on goal, crash the net, look for rebounds. If Yamo takes another bad penalty, I would bench him for at least a period, maybe more. Their PK is struggling, the last thing they need is more lazy penalties. He's one of the worst for taking bad penalties. The message isn't getting through to him. Time to make an example. It has to stop!

Foegele and his whole line. See above. McLeod, you are 6'2, almost 210 that skates like the wind. The fact he has only 9 shots in 13 games with that much speed is mind boggling. Take it hard to the goal, shoot the puck. Foegele. Get the damn puck out of your zone. You aren't McDavid, you are Warren Freaking Foegele. Get the puck out. Get pucks on goal, go to the net.

When you are in the top 6 and you want to try more pretty goals, fine. When you are in the bottom 6 and get 12 mins a night tops, keep it simple. Straight lines, skate hard, forecheck hard, finish a check, get pucks on goal, look for rebounds.

Once again, I disagree whole-heartedly on the role of Bottom 6 forwards. Their job is to outscore the opposition - usually the third and fourth lines of the other team. It doesn't matter how they do that, whether with finesse, or hard forechecking, or grinding out ugly goals or beating the other team with great transitions, or end-to-end rushes. Your job is just to score more goals than you allow.

I will agree that they need to be better, as does everyone, but if they do it pretty or ugly, it makes zero difference. Just get it done. For what it's worth, I think with guys like McLeod, Yamamoto, Holloway in the bottom six, there's enough talent to expect them to outperform other teams depth, and to be able to out-finesse those players on other teams too.

What it comes down to ultimately is confidence, good systems play (and a good system) and execution - with a dash of luck.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813659 is a reply to message #813655 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:40

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 22:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:23

I am hoping the coaching staff shows JP a video clips of Hyman last game. Go to the net, park your big body in there, create chaos, good things will happen. Above all, if you are going to be on McD's line, get him the puck quickly, go to the net with your stick on the ice and look for a pass. Keep it simple. Hyman plays a very simple, straight line game that works. No reason JP who's a big man and skates well can't play similar to Hyman. Straight lines, go to the net!

For Yamo. Shoot the puck. Stop taking bad penalties and shoot the damn puck. You are on the 4th line at the moment, your job is to keep it simple. Get pucks in deep, forecheck hard, put everything on goal. It's not show time on the 4th line. IT's simple hockey, get everything you can on goal, crash the net, look for rebounds. If Yamo takes another bad penalty, I would bench him for at least a period, maybe more. Their PK is struggling, the last thing they need is more lazy penalties. He's one of the worst for taking bad penalties. The message isn't getting through to him. Time to make an example. It has to stop!

Foegele and his whole line. See above. McLeod, you are 6'2, almost 210 that skates like the wind. The fact he has only 9 shots in 13 games with that much speed is mind boggling. Take it hard to the goal, shoot the puck. Foegele. Get the damn puck out of your zone. You aren't McDavid, you are Warren Freaking Foegele. Get the puck out. Get pucks on goal, go to the net.

When you are in the top 6 and you want to try more pretty goals, fine. When you are in the bottom 6 and get 12 mins a night tops, keep it simple. Straight lines, skate hard, forecheck hard, finish a check, get pucks on goal, look for rebounds.

Once again, I disagree whole-heartedly on the role of Bottom 6 forwards. Their job is to outscore the opposition - usually the third and fourth lines of the other team. It doesn't matter how they do that, whether with finesse, or hard forechecking, or grinding out ugly goals or beating the other team with great transitions, or end-to-end rushes. Your job is just to score more goals than you allow.

I will agree that they need to be better, as does everyone, but if they do it pretty or ugly, it makes zero difference. Just get it done. For what it's worth, I think with guys like McLeod, Yamamoto, Holloway in the bottom six, there's enough talent to expect them to outperform other teams depth, and to be able to out-finesse those players on other teams too.

What it comes down to ultimately is confidence, good systems play (and a good system) and execution - with a dash of luck.

Overall I agree with this, it would take some pressure off the top 6, but we have enough depth with Hyman and RNH having a good year and Kane... I am not too worried about the scoring myself... We scored more than enough last night to win that game, it's the penalties that we really need to cut down and obviously need to figure out how to kill off a PP..... It would be nice to see them hold a team to under 35 shots for a change, or Soup have a good game for us.... It will be hard on back to back nights for them to play as sharp as they usually do, but cut down on the mental mistakes and I think we have a good chance to keep this game close.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813660 is a reply to message #813655 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:54

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:23

I am hoping the coaching staff shows JP a video clips of Hyman last game. Go to the net, park your big body in there, create chaos, good things will happen. Above all, if you are going to be on McD's line, get him the puck quickly, go to the net with your stick on the ice and look for a pass. Keep it simple. Hyman plays a very simple, straight line game that works. No reason JP who's a big man and skates well can't play similar to Hyman. Straight lines, go to the net!

For Yamo. Shoot the puck. Stop taking bad penalties and shoot the damn puck. You are on the 4th line at the moment, your job is to keep it simple. Get pucks in deep, forecheck hard, put everything on goal. It's not show time on the 4th line. IT's simple hockey, get everything you can on goal, crash the net, look for rebounds. If Yamo takes another bad penalty, I would bench him for at least a period, maybe more. Their PK is struggling, the last thing they need is more lazy penalties. He's one of the worst for taking bad penalties. The message isn't getting through to him. Time to make an example. It has to stop!

Foegele and his whole line. See above. McLeod, you are 6'2, almost 210 that skates like the wind. The fact he has only 9 shots in 13 games with that much speed is mind boggling. Take it hard to the goal, shoot the puck. Foegele. Get the damn puck out of your zone. You aren't McDavid, you are Warren Freaking Foegele. Get the puck out. Get pucks on goal, go to the net.

When you are in the top 6 and you want to try more pretty goals, fine. When you are in the bottom 6 and get 12 mins a night tops, keep it simple. Straight lines, skate hard, forecheck hard, finish a check, get pucks on goal, look for rebounds.

Once again, I disagree whole-heartedly on the role of Bottom 6 forwards. Their job is to outscore the opposition - usually the third and fourth lines of the other team. It doesn't matter how they do that, whether with finesse, or hard forechecking, or grinding out ugly goals or beating the other team with great transitions, or end-to-end rushes. Your job is just to score more goals than you allow.

I will agree that they need to be better, as does everyone, but if they do it pretty or ugly, it makes zero difference. Just get it done. For what it's worth, I think with guys like McLeod, Yamamoto, Holloway in the bottom six, there's enough talent to expect them to outperform other teams depth, and to be able to out-finesse those players on other teams too.

What it comes down to ultimately is confidence, good systems play (and a good system) and execution - with a dash of luck.

Where did I say I don't think the bottom 6 needs to score?

All I said was those guys need to simplify their games and get more pucks to the goal. Look for rebounds and tips. That's trying to score! McLeod isn't McDavid or Leon. So he's not capable of making the plays they can. The guys in the bottom 6 like a Foegele or a Ryan don't have the finishing ability as Kane or Hyman or Nuge. So expecting them to play the same as how the top 6 plays is ridiculous in my mind because you are asking them to do things they are not capable of doing. If they were able too, they would be in the top 6. Expecting McLeod to thread passes through multiple players to feed Foegele for back door tap ins, isn't going to happen. The guys in the bottom 6 aren't capable of deking through 4 guys to get into the zone like McDavid. So they have to do it in other, more simple ways. So get the puck in the zone, go to the net, get pucks on goals. THAT'S SIMPLIFYING YOUR GAME WHILE TRYING TO SCORE. NO where did I say it's the job of the bottom 6 just to get the puck out and do nothing on offense. No where.

[Updated on: Tue, 08 November 2022 15:59]

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813666 is a reply to message #813660 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 17:05

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:54

Adam wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:23

I am hoping the coaching staff shows JP a video clips of Hyman last game. Go to the net, park your big body in there, create chaos, good things will happen. Above all, if you are going to be on McD's line, get him the puck quickly, go to the net with your stick on the ice and look for a pass. Keep it simple. Hyman plays a very simple, straight line game that works. No reason JP who's a big man and skates well can't play similar to Hyman. Straight lines, go to the net!

For Yamo. Shoot the puck. Stop taking bad penalties and shoot the damn puck. You are on the 4th line at the moment, your job is to keep it simple. Get pucks in deep, forecheck hard, put everything on goal. It's not show time on the 4th line. IT's simple hockey, get everything you can on goal, crash the net, look for rebounds. If Yamo takes another bad penalty, I would bench him for at least a period, maybe more. Their PK is struggling, the last thing they need is more lazy penalties. He's one of the worst for taking bad penalties. The message isn't getting through to him. Time to make an example. It has to stop!

Foegele and his whole line. See above. McLeod, you are 6'2, almost 210 that skates like the wind. The fact he has only 9 shots in 13 games with that much speed is mind boggling. Take it hard to the goal, shoot the puck. Foegele. Get the damn puck out of your zone. You aren't McDavid, you are Warren Freaking Foegele. Get the puck out. Get pucks on goal, go to the net.

When you are in the top 6 and you want to try more pretty goals, fine. When you are in the bottom 6 and get 12 mins a night tops, keep it simple. Straight lines, skate hard, forecheck hard, finish a check, get pucks on goal, look for rebounds.

Once again, I disagree whole-heartedly on the role of Bottom 6 forwards. Their job is to outscore the opposition - usually the third and fourth lines of the other team. It doesn't matter how they do that, whether with finesse, or hard forechecking, or grinding out ugly goals or beating the other team with great transitions, or end-to-end rushes. Your job is just to score more goals than you allow.

I will agree that they need to be better, as does everyone, but if they do it pretty or ugly, it makes zero difference. Just get it done. For what it's worth, I think with guys like McLeod, Yamamoto, Holloway in the bottom six, there's enough talent to expect them to outperform other teams depth, and to be able to out-finesse those players on other teams too.

What it comes down to ultimately is confidence, good systems play (and a good system) and execution - with a dash of luck.

Where did I say I don't think the bottom 6 needs to score?

All I said was those guys need to simplify their games and get more pucks to the goal. Look for rebounds and tips. That's trying to score! McLeod isn't McDavid or Leon. So he's not capable of making the plays they can. The guys in the bottom 6 like a Foegele or a Ryan don't have the finishing ability as Kane or Hyman or Nuge. So expecting them to play the same as how the top 6 plays is ridiculous in my mind because you are asking them to do things they are not capable of doing. If they were able too, they would be in the top 6. Expecting McLeod to thread passes through multiple players to feed Foegele for back door tap ins, isn't going to happen. The guys in the bottom 6 aren't capable of deking through 4 guys to get into the zone like McDavid. So they have to do it in other, more simple ways. So get the puck in the zone, go to the net, get pucks on goals. THAT'S SIMPLIFYING YOUR GAME WHILE TRYING TO SCORE. NO where did I say it's the job of the bottom 6 just to get the puck out and do nothing on offense. No where.

You've played beer league hockey, right? And you've probably played against some decent players. Not NHLers maybe, but guys who are good at hockey and who can dangle pretty amazingly compared to who they're on the ice against.

Understand, everyone who's not Dennis Bonvie or Steve MacIntyre who is in the NHL has been THE guy that drives their team at some point in their career. They have been the best player on the ice. They all have the capability to dangle, and to use finesse.

They aren't McDavid, so they're not going to often embarrass all-star defencemen, but they can hold their own against other depth players. And that's generally who they're going to play. Woodcroft tends to put Draisaitl's line out against the other team's best players (which I don't love as long as Kane is one of the wingers as he's not a great passer or defender). McDavid will go up against their second best.

McLeod/Puljujarvi/Foegele has actually been dominating most third lines this year from possession metrics, but they haven't scored much at all. That might be luck, that might be some flaws in their execution. That's not because they haven't "simplified" their game enough. These old hockey cliches all really need to die. They're relatively meaningless drivel that we've just heard so many times that we feel the need to parrot it.

They definitely need more confidence, and they need to do whatever they can to get on the board and get some. They also need to pick up their socks defensively, because it's embarrassing to be outscored by the depth from some of these other teams...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813653 is a reply to message #813640 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 15:32

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 14:50

I thought he was pretty good at the start of seasons until this one. I seem to remember us talking about how he was a good early year players because the game isn't as tough. Then, as we get into the stretch drive, he starts getting muscled out of the play more.

Of course he had a decent post season last year, so that theory got blown out of the water.

Yeah, I think the hand-wringing about Yamamoto (and other mid-tier and bottom line scorers) is a bit overblown. Would we like more production from him? Sure, of course. But the fact is, we're 2nd in the league in goals for. Some goals for Yamamoto and Puljujarvi would be a nice to have, but it's hardly where we're lacking the most.

The bottom six is getting outscored again for sure, and so as we look to improve 5v5 play, that's a concern - the minus players on the team at forward are Puljujarvi, Holloway, Foegele, McLeod and Malone which is an indication that when the third and fourth lines are on the ice, they tend to get outscored. That said, I think the fact that McDavid and Draisaitl are only at +4 shows that the 5v5 weakness goes deeper than just the depth players. The Oilers are really only getting the job done on the powerplay, so it's not that surprising that the only players with stats to write home about are those who get a lot of PP minutes.

Oh, and Darnell Nurse. I can't remember who it was who was ragging on him fiercely early in the year, but he's a team leading +7 with 9 points in 13 games, only one of which is on the PP. Not a perfect player, and he still makes mistakes, but all-in-all, the stats suggest he's playing well this year - possibly our top performer at even strength. (Although even he falls flat on his face on the PK).

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813661 is a reply to message #813653 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 16:10

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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The back to backs make it harder but I would go 11-7 tonight. The reason being is Holloway only played 6:06, Yamo 6:49. Not letting anyone off the hook because I believe a player needs to try to make an impact even with limited icetime but its hard when it's that little as I am sure they say for long stretches.

I would probably lean towards Holloway because of his speed and maybe playing Tampa will pump him up and Yamo. Then I would cycle McD, Leon, Nuge, even Hyman and maybe Kane with Holloway and Yamo. With Holloway being able to be a center, you can play a winger with them.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813664 is a reply to message #813661 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 16:17

tardigrade81
Messages: 2198
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 23:10

The back to backs make it harder but I would go 11-7 tonight. The reason being is Holloway only played 6:06, Yamo 6:49. Not letting anyone off the hook because I believe a player needs to try to make an impact even with limited icetime but its hard when it's that little as I am sure they say for long stretches.

I would probably lean towards Holloway because of his speed and maybe playing Tampa will pump him up and Yamo. Then I would cycle McD, Leon, Nuge, even Hyman and maybe Kane with Holloway and Yamo. With Holloway being able to be a center, you can play a winger with them.

Definitely. Which is why you can’t lose three in a row. Then florida and Carolina after. Brutal schedule

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813662 is a reply to message #813653 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 16:10

CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 15:32

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 08 November 2022 14:50

I thought he was pretty good at the start of seasons until this one. I seem to remember us talking about how he was a good early year players because the game isn't as tough. Then, as we get into the stretch drive, he starts getting muscled out of the play more.

Of course he had a decent post season last year, so that theory got blown out of the water.

Yeah, I think the hand-wringing about Yamamoto (and other mid-tier and bottom line scorers) is a bit overblown. Would we like more production from him? Sure, of course. But the fact is, we're 2nd in the league in goals for. Some goals for Yamamoto and Puljujarvi would be a nice to have, but it's hardly where we're lacking the most.

The bottom six is getting outscored again for sure, and so as we look to improve 5v5 play, that's a concern - the minus players on the team at forward are Puljujarvi, Holloway, Foegele, McLeod and Malone which is an indication that when the third and fourth lines are on the ice, they tend to get outscored. That said, I think the fact that McDavid and Draisaitl are only at +4 shows that the 5v5 weakness goes deeper than just the depth players. The Oilers are really only getting the job done on the powerplay, so it's not that surprising that the only players with stats to write home about are those who get a lot of PP minutes.

The bottom 6 (8?) and their lack of production is a huge problem for the Oilers. We don't talk about it enough. Because they're being scored on AND not scoring it's telling me that their ice time is causing more defensive zone time which puts more pressure on the Oilers questionable defense and shaking tending. This is also putting more pressure on the big 2 (4?) to simply outscore the obvious problems.

We're getting to the point, and maybe beyond the point, where the Oilers are going to be better off walking away from the non-productive players who are no longer cheap. If their promise is not realized, what are they? What purpose do they serve? Why are they here? It was probably a mistake keeping both Puljujarvi and Yamamoto this season purely for cap reason. It neither of them perform to a level that helps take the pressure of the stars or the D, the Oilers need to cut bait.

Now if the 3 million dollar trio was a collective plus 5 and were on pace for ~20 goal each (~3 each right now). No one would have a problem. It's not a big ask, but it might be too big for the team we watch right now.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813665 is a reply to message #813662 ]	Tue, 08 November 2022 16:43

tardigrade81
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Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

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If we could get off to a fast start and have a lead for a change would help.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Tampa Bay (Game #14) [message #813731 is a reply to message #813582 ]	Wed, 09 November 2022 02:27

Skookum Jim
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The Foegeler's win the Poll!

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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