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Speculation » 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811503 is a reply to message #811492 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 11:36

Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 10:25

I can't speak for NetBOG, but I was mostly joking about the ineptness of the Oilers front office.

Although, I don't think that Chicago is going to trade Kane as a cap dump. Yes, they want to get rid of his salary, and probably his ability to make them not awful, but they're going to have to retain salary in any deal, which limits the benefit to them, and he's by far their most marketable player.

If they're trying go full rebuild, you would have to think the ask would be at least a 1st and a good prospect, and likely some additional draft picks. And I wouldn't be shocked if they were asking for two 1sts.

I think they'll want some return, but I don't think they have a lot of power. He makes a lot of money, and his full no-move gives him huge power on his destination. If he wanted to come here, and wasn't willing to go anywhere else, then that becomes pretty problematic for them.

He's also capable of winning them more games than they want to win. Toews is in serious decline and so if you have to have him there for this year, I don't think he can steal too many games for you, but Kane? He's a really good player still.

I think maybe they get a 1st or a good prospect plus a player who the other team uses as a cap dump to free up room.

It could cost someone more though, because if you need the other team taking cap space, you'll have to give them something for it. What's the cost for $2.5MM of cap space to a team that doesn't need the room?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811504 is a reply to message #811487 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 11:37

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 08:32

so... do the Hawks 'owe us one' for the Keith trade?

arizona gets our 1st and Barrie - retains 1/4 Kane's salary
chicago gets our 2nd (whatever year we have one again) and Foegle - retains 1/2 Kane's salary
we get Kane at 1/4 cost and Chychrun

please?

Even with the Kane NMC, I don't think Chicago is in that much of a panic to move him now. He probably still sells jerseys and is one of the only guys people still pay to see there. At the deadline he will probably have a nice list of contenders he would be willing to move to to try to win another cup and Chicago can get a little bidding war going between top teams.

I think this summer you're probably paying full rental price to get Chicago to pull the trigger early. 1st and good prospect at least.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811506 is a reply to message #811503 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 11:52

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

It BLOWS my mind how some of you think these players have very little value and expect teams just to give guys away for very little all because they have cap hits. Kane had 92 pts last year on a garbage team where his center was Dylan freaking Strome. Nothing against Strome but he's not a star center.

Kane is an ELITE player still and would instantly help any team be WAY better. I get the Hawks are going into a rebuild but the idea they are going to accept scraps for him all because of his cap hit, is utterly ridiculous for the caliber of player he still is. Put the shoe on the other foot, if Kane was an Oiler and they were potentially moving him. Regardless of his cap hit, would getting scraps be acceptable regardless if he has control? Hell no. The Hawks will get a decent return for him because he's still worth the money he is making.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811508 is a reply to message #811506 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 760
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811509 is a reply to message #808867 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 13:03

Skookum Jim
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Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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Sounds like Oilers were in on Klingburg, with some creative transactions considered.. price demanded by Montreal probably killed it. I consider it a positive sign, as it indicates that Oilers are active in investigating some creative roster solutions.
https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/08/25/canadiens-reportedl y-nearly-involved-in-sign-trade-with-oilers/

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811510 is a reply to message #811508 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 13:40

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

I don't see them having any problem trading him regardless of his no move. Lots of teams would be willing to bring in a 90+ point guy. If you look at what teams give up at the deadline to get just OK players, Kane is way better than most of them.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811511 is a reply to message #811508 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 13:43

Adam
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6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

This is just it. He can say where he wants to go, and Chicago has tried to make it clear to Kane and Toews that they should be open to a trade, despite those NMCs. They want to shed salary, and they want to lose games. Kane is a problem on both counts.

The player can dictate to them where they're willing to go, and so if you are a team and know that there is a very short, possibly one-name list of where the player is interested in going, then you know that you hold all the cards and can work out a deal that is in your best interests, rather than overpay Chicago.

The fact is, $10MM cap hits aren't easy to move at the best of times, but when the player can call his shot, then it's even more difficult. The problem for Chicago in the way they've approached this, is that they probably haven't made Kane feel like he owes them something. There's been a bit of a GTFO attitude, so I could see him and Toews trying to pick their destinations, with the fall back position that if the team doesn't like it, then they can just keep and pay them and watch them try to win as many games as they can.

And I think winning games is exactly what they want to try to avoid, even more than paying the salary. If you want the best shot at Connor Bedard, you need to be last. A 100-point player can be a big impact on that quest.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811512 is a reply to message #811510 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 13:44

Adam
Messages: 7165
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:40

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

I don't see them having any problem trading him regardless of his no move. Lots of teams would be willing to bring in a 90+ point guy. If you look at what teams give up at the deadline to get just OK players, Kane is way better than most of them.

The problem isn't teams wanting Kane, it's Kane wanting teams. He can and likely will pick his landing spot.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811514 is a reply to message #811512 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 13:55

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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Adam wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:40

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

I don't see them having any problem trading him regardless of his no move. Lots of teams would be willing to bring in a 90+ point guy. If you look at what teams give up at the deadline to get just OK players, Kane is way better than most of them.

The problem isn't teams wanting Kane, it's Kane wanting teams. He can and likely will pick his landing spot.

I am sure Kane will pick his spot and provide a list and I have no doubt any of those teams would gladly add on a 90+ pt player to their team and pay up to get him. Take whoever you deem as the 10 best teams in the NHL going into the season, you put Kane into their top 6 and they would immediately shoot up as one of the favorites. The Flyers got Tippett, a young, probably top 9 forward, a first and a 3rd for Giroux for what, not even 2 months? Kane is a superior player to Giroux.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811515 is a reply to message #811512 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 13:58

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:40

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

I don't see them having any problem trading him regardless of his no move. Lots of teams would be willing to bring in a 90+ point guy. If you look at what teams give up at the deadline to get just OK players, Kane is way better than most of them.

The problem isn't teams wanting Kane, it's Kane wanting teams. He can and likely will pick his landing spot.

Dallas still have to sign RFAs Robertson and Oettinger, but holy do they have a lot of cap space for a good team that's paying the broken down corpse of Jamie Benn and the ghost of Tyler Seguin 9+ each for 3 and 5 more years respectively. If Dallas could somehow get rid of one of those anchors that's suddenly a very good hockey team well positioned for the next few years. That might be a good landing spot for Kane.

I forgot Sequin was trade to the Stars before his second contract started, but after it was signed and then Dallas resigned him for more. Crazy times.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811516 is a reply to message #811512 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 14:00

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:40

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

I don't see them having any problem trading him regardless of his no move. Lots of teams would be willing to bring in a 90+ point guy. If you look at what teams give up at the deadline to get just OK players, Kane is way better than most of them.

The problem isn't teams wanting Kane, it's Kane wanting teams. He can and likely will pick his landing spot.

What would you do as Chicago? I personally would take it to the deadline. Less cap for teams to have to take on. And Kane will know all the contenders and teams he could win a cup with and that should give you the options to try to create the best possible bidding war. It's also a lot easier for Kane, because he's only making a commitment of going to another place for months, instead of a whole year which will make him much more willing to open up his options.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811517 is a reply to message #811514 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 14:05

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 760
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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ahh, if only there were no cap.
13 teams have NO cap room. 1 had $43,000, 2 more at $500,000

not a lot of 'top' teams that can just 'add' Kane to their lineup.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811536 is a reply to message #811509 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 15:54

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:03

Sounds like Oilers were in on Klingburg, with some creative transactions considered.. price demanded by Montreal probably killed it. I consider it a positive sign, as it indicates that Oilers are active in investigating some creative roster solutions.
https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/08/25/canadiens-reportedl y-nearly-involved-in-sign-trade-with-oilers/

I saw that as well. Pretty interesting. I am still pretty stunned Klingberg decided to go to the Ducks of all places. If you want to pad the stats and bet on yourself, why not sign a 1 yr, cheap deal with a real good team then look to make a homerun.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811539 is a reply to message #811536 ]	Thu, 25 August 2022 16:48

welcometotheOC
Messages: 642
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 15:54

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:03

Sounds like Oilers were in on Klingburg, with some creative transactions considered.. price demanded by Montreal probably killed it. I consider it a positive sign, as it indicates that Oilers are active in investigating some creative roster solutions.
https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/08/25/canadiens-reportedl y-nearly-involved-in-sign-trade-with-oilers/

I saw that as well. Pretty interesting. I am still pretty stunned Klingberg decided to go to the Ducks of all places. If you want to pad the stats and bet on yourself, why not sign a 1 yr, cheap deal with a real good team then look to make a homerun.

Beaches?

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811541 is a reply to message #811539 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 08:23

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 16:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 15:54

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:03

Sounds like Oilers were in on Klingburg, with some creative transactions considered.. price demanded by Montreal probably killed it. I consider it a positive sign, as it indicates that Oilers are active in investigating some creative roster solutions.
https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/08/25/canadiens-reportedl y-nearly-involved-in-sign-trade-with-oilers/

I saw that as well. Pretty interesting. I am still pretty stunned Klingberg decided to go to the Ducks of all places. If you want to pad the stats and bet on yourself, why not sign a 1 yr, cheap deal with a real good team then look to make a homerun.

Beaches?

Must have been and to be close to Disneyland. I don't think it was to be on a cup contender.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811542 is a reply to message #811516 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 08:28

inverno76
Messages: 2336
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 14:00

Adam wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:40

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

I don't see them having any problem trading him regardless of his no move. Lots of teams would be willing to bring in a 90+ point guy. If you look at what teams give up at the deadline to get just OK players, Kane is way better than most of them.

The problem isn't teams wanting Kane, it's Kane wanting teams. He can and likely will pick his landing spot.

What would you do as Chicago? I personally would take it to the deadline. Less cap for teams to have to take on. And Kane will know all the contenders and teams he could win a cup with and that should give you the options to try to create the best possible bidding war. It's also a lot easier for Kane, because he's only making a commitment of going to another place for months, instead of a whole year which will make him much more willing to open up his options.

Wouldn't contending teams still be a bit leery? They will all almost need to move out salary, even in a 3 way deal, and that probably means moving a valuable part of the lineup 2/3 into the season.

No matter which I way I look at it moving Kane will not be an easy deal to make to a contending team. If the Oilers are truly in on this, then I hope they go for the 82 game trade version. Develop lines with chemistry early and start the juggernaut in October.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811543 is a reply to message #811542 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 08:51

Dragon_Matt
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taking it to the deadline is slightly riskier for them. It's possible that one or more of the contender teams can't put it together and tanks, like Colorado did just a few years ago. At the start of the year there are more markets to peddle him to.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811544 is a reply to message #811542 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 09:53

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 08:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 14:00

Adam wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 13:40

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 12:36

Kane's production isn't questioned, nor his value as a player. The issue the hawks run into is that very few teams can afford him without moving something large to make space. If you're negotiating with someone and in order for them to take what you're selling, they HAVE to get rid of something they already have, the item you're trying to give them becomes less valuable to some degree.
the only teams that could take Kane for only draft picks are Arizona, Buffalo, Anaheim and Dallas (unless capfriendly hasn't been updated recently). After them, Detroit is about $1mil away and the next closest would have to shed $3 mil at least.
Since Kane has a full no move clause... Chicago is in a tough spot.

I don't see them having any problem trading him regardless of his no move. Lots of teams would be willing to bring in a 90+ point guy. If you look at what teams give up at the deadline to get just OK players, Kane is way better than most of them.

The problem isn't teams wanting Kane, it's Kane wanting teams. He can and likely will pick his landing spot.

What would you do as Chicago? I personally would take it to the deadline. Less cap for teams to have to take on. And Kane will know all the contenders and teams he could win a cup with and that should give you the options to try to create the best possible bidding war. It's also a lot easier for Kane, because he's only making a commitment of going to another place for months, instead of a whole year which will make him much more willing to open up his options.

Wouldn't contending teams still be a bit leery? They will all almost need to move out salary, even in a 3 way deal, and that probably means moving a valuable part of the lineup 2/3 into the season.

No matter which I way I look at it moving Kane will not be an easy deal to make to a contending team. If the Oilers are truly in on this, then I hope they go for the 82 game trade version. Develop lines with chemistry early and start the juggernaut in October.

If you want to win a cup, I think you made room for Kane at the deadline if you can get him. Big names like that move every deadline and teams desperate to finally win something pay out the nose.

If Kane is trying to be super picky right now because he's looking at having to live in a place for 8+ months, I think I would try my luck at the deadline. Especially if all you are being offered for Kane from those 1 or 2 teams is below normal high profile deadline rental prices.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811545 is a reply to message #811543 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 09:56

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 08:51

taking it to the deadline is slightly riskier for them. It's possible that one or more of the contender teams can't put it together and tanks, like Colorado did just a few years ago. At the start of the year there are more markets to peddle him to.

There is always 16 teams in the playoffs, and a dozen having good seasons that are thinking they have a shot.

Are there more markets to peddle him to though? The thought process I'm talking about is that Kane could be trying to take full advantage of his NMC and pick his ideal team now, handcuffing the Blackhawks. If Kane is open to a bunch of teams then great, Chicago can get lots of value for him because he's going to also help that team ensure they make the playoffs all year long.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811546 is a reply to message #811516 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 10:05

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 14:00

What would you do as Chicago? I personally would take it to the deadline. Less cap for teams to have to take on. And Kane will know all the contenders and teams he could win a cup with and that should give you the options to try to create the best possible bidding war. It's also a lot easier for Kane, because he's only making a commitment of going to another place for months, instead of a whole year which will make him much more willing to open up his options.

If I'm running Chicago and wanting to make sure I lose this year, I'm not going to bring Patrick Kane back if I can convince him to leave. He can tilt the ice, and when you've gone to so much effort to be bad, bringing back your best player seems a challenge.

I'm also not excited about the risk that he says no to moving at the deadline and then we get nothing at all for him.

So if I'm proactive, I'm sitting down with him and asking him where he'll waive his NMC for and negotiating with him to try to get as many names on that list as he'll grant, then getting to work looking to find him a new home before the season starts. Theoretically, I should be able to get more for a full season of Patrick Kane then I am for 20 games of him. Also, I'm probably calling a few of the other ugly duckling teams and asking them about their willingness to act as a go-between to get Kane somewhere with even more cap relief. If I can call 5 teams and tell them they can have Kane for 2.5MM cap hit, then I should have some strong interest. Then maybe I can get that second first round pick.

If he screws the team over and says he'll only go one place? That would be tougher...but I probably still deal him and get what I can get, because I can't see that price going up in the next several months if he stays firm that he'll only go to that team and they know that.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811547 is a reply to message #811546 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 10:13

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 14:00

What would you do as Chicago? I personally would take it to the deadline. Less cap for teams to have to take on. And Kane will know all the contenders and teams he could win a cup with and that should give you the options to try to create the best possible bidding war. It's also a lot easier for Kane, because he's only making a commitment of going to another place for months, instead of a whole year which will make him much more willing to open up his options.

If I'm running Chicago and wanting to make sure I lose this year, I'm not going to bring Patrick Kane back if I can convince him to leave. He can tilt the ice, and when you've gone to so much effort to be bad, bringing back your best player seems a challenge.

I'm also not excited about the risk that he says no to moving at the deadline and then we get nothing at all for him.

So if I'm proactive, I'm sitting down with him and asking him where he'll waive his NMC for and negotiating with him to try to get as many names on that list as he'll grant, then getting to work looking to find him a new home before the season starts. Theoretically, I should be able to get more for a full season of Patrick Kane then I am for 20 games of him. Also, I'm probably calling a few of the other ugly duckling teams and asking them about their willingness to act as a go-between to get Kane somewhere with even more cap relief. If I can call 5 teams and tell them they can have Kane for 2.5MM cap hit, then I should have some strong interest. Then maybe I can get that second first round pick.

If he screws the team over and says he'll only go one place? That would be tougher...but I probably still deal him and get what I can get, because I can't see that price going up in the next several months if he stays firm that he'll only go to that team and they know that.

Just to add, Serevalli got some intel on Kane

https://www.hawksinsider.com/Patrick-Kane-Reveals-When-He-Ma y-Request-a-Trade-and-to-Where-151036

Seems to be leaning that he wants to ensure he plays for a team that can win. Probably is already intent on getting max use of his NMC. Chicago may have zero teams to pick from now, and maybe he only leaves them with 1 or 2 at the deadline, lol.

No worries though, if one of those teams is us, we will be sure to pay out the nose still as if Chicago was taking bids from the entire league. Seen that show before.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811548 is a reply to message #808867 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 10:17

inverno76
Messages: 2336
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

https://twitter.com/oileranalytics/status/156291761488802611 2?s=21&t=MmUtc-2arjvoFjd3lZxGbw

Cross Kane off the Leafs list.

Quote:

“I’m a winner and winners don’t go play for teams that can’t get past the first round, so my decision will be based off a team that’s pointing in the right direction, not one with constant failures.”

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811549 is a reply to message #811548 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 10:18

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:17

https://twitter.com/oileranalytics/status/156291761488802611 2?s=21&t=MmUtc-2arjvoFjd3lZxGbw

Cross Kane off the Leafs list.

Quote:

“I’m a winner and winners don’t go play for teams that can’t get past the first round, so my decision will be based off a team that’s pointing in the right direction, not one with constant failures.”

lol, I saw that too. I think it's fake though :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811550 is a reply to message #811549 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 10:22

inverno76
Messages: 2336
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:18

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:17

https://twitter.com/oileranalytics/status/156291761488802611 2?s=21&t=MmUtc-2arjvoFjd3lZxGbw

Cross Kane off the Leafs list.

Quote:

“I’m a winner and winners don’t go play for teams that can’t get past the first round, so my decision will be based off a team that’s pointing in the right direction, not one with constant failures.”

lol, I saw that too. I think it's fake though :)

I know. Still made me laugh.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811551 is a reply to message #811547 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 10:26

Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:13

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 14:00

What would you do as Chicago? I personally would take it to the deadline. Less cap for teams to have to take on. And Kane will know all the contenders and teams he could win a cup with and that should give you the options to try to create the best possible bidding war. It's also a lot easier for Kane, because he's only making a commitment of going to another place for months, instead of a whole year which will make him much more willing to open up his options.

If I'm running Chicago and wanting to make sure I lose this year, I'm not going to bring Patrick Kane back if I can convince him to leave. He can tilt the ice, and when you've gone to so much effort to be bad, bringing back your best player seems a challenge.

I'm also not excited about the risk that he says no to moving at the deadline and then we get nothing at all for him.

So if I'm proactive, I'm sitting down with him and asking him where he'll waive his NMC for and negotiating with him to try to get as many names on that list as he'll grant, then getting to work looking to find him a new home before the season starts. Theoretically, I should be able to get more for a full season of Patrick Kane then I am for 20 games of him. Also, I'm probably calling a few of the other ugly duckling teams and asking them about their willingness to act as a go-between to get Kane somewhere with even more cap relief. If I can call 5 teams and tell them they can have Kane for 2.5MM cap hit, then I should have some strong interest. Then maybe I can get that second first round pick.

If he screws the team over and says he'll only go one place? That would be tougher...but I probably still deal him and get what I can get, because I can't see that price going up in the next several months if he stays firm that he'll only go to that team and they know that.

Just to add, Serevalli got some intel on Kane

https://www.hawksinsider.com/Patrick-Kane-Reveals-When-He-Ma y-Request-a-Trade-and-to-Where-151036

Seems to be leaning that he wants to ensure he plays for a team that can win. Probably is already intent on getting max use of his NMC. Chicago may have zero teams to pick from now, and maybe he only leaves them with 1 or 2 at the deadline, lol.

No worries though, if one of those teams is us, we will be sure to pay out the nose still as if Chicago was taking bids from the entire league. Seen that show before.

I feel zero sympathy for the Blackhawks. They decided to give out all those big contracts with full NMCs, and now they've decided to tear the whole thing down. They had a lot of success keeping that group together, and now they're on the downslide.

If I am them, I am probably hoping that the Oilers are Kane's desired team, because they already know that old geezer in the GM chair doesn't understand leverage and negotiating position from last summer with Keith. They might still get more for Kane than we got for Chris Pronger or Wayne Gretzky!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811552 is a reply to message #811551 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 11:03

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:26

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:13

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 August 2022 14:00

What would you do as Chicago? I personally would take it to the deadline. Less cap for teams to have to take on. And Kane will know all the contenders and teams he could win a cup with and that should give you the options to try to create the best possible bidding war. It's also a lot easier for Kane, because he's only making a commitment of going to another place for months, instead of a whole year which will make him much more willing to open up his options.

If I'm running Chicago and wanting to make sure I lose this year, I'm not going to bring Patrick Kane back if I can convince him to leave. He can tilt the ice, and when you've gone to so much effort to be bad, bringing back your best player seems a challenge.

I'm also not excited about the risk that he says no to moving at the deadline and then we get nothing at all for him.

So if I'm proactive, I'm sitting down with him and asking him where he'll waive his NMC for and negotiating with him to try to get as many names on that list as he'll grant, then getting to work looking to find him a new home before the season starts. Theoretically, I should be able to get more for a full season of Patrick Kane then I am for 20 games of him. Also, I'm probably calling a few of the other ugly duckling teams and asking them about their willingness to act as a go-between to get Kane somewhere with even more cap relief. If I can call 5 teams and tell them they can have Kane for 2.5MM cap hit, then I should have some strong interest. Then maybe I can get that second first round pick.

If he screws the team over and says he'll only go one place? That would be tougher...but I probably still deal him and get what I can get, because I can't see that price going up in the next several months if he stays firm that he'll only go to that team and they know that.

Just to add, Serevalli got some intel on Kane

https://www.hawksinsider.com/Patrick-Kane-Reveals-When-He-Ma y-Request-a-Trade-and-to-Where-151036

Seems to be leaning that he wants to ensure he plays for a team that can win. Probably is already intent on getting max use of his NMC. Chicago may have zero teams to pick from now, and maybe he only leaves them with 1 or 2 at the deadline, lol.

No worries though, if one of those teams is us, we will be sure to pay out the nose still as if Chicago was taking bids from the entire league. Seen that show before.

I feel zero sympathy for the Blackhawks. They decided to give out all those big contracts with full NMCs, and now they've decided to tear the whole thing down. They had a lot of success keeping that group together, and now they're on the downslide.

If I am them, I am probably hoping that the Oilers are Kane's desired team, because they already know that old geezer in the GM chair doesn't understand leverage and negotiating position from last summer with Keith. They might still get more for Kane than we got for Chris Pronger or Wayne Gretzky!

Yeah, these are the consequences of those fat deals. Guess they got 3 cups out of it! The contracts being post payments for the cups of course. They never won after the cap hell they created :)

But now Kane has experiences years of failure, got a full dose of knowledge of how little 1 or 2 guys really impact a team alone. Probably totally sick of it and wants to be 100% sure he plays on a team that rolling into the playoffs looking like contenders. If he moves now, pretty risky. Comes here and in week 2 McDavid goes flying into Campbell and they're both done, lol. Still got 2 months of risk moving at the deadline, but better than 6.

I have no doubt we will pay out the nose for Kane if we actually are in the running, even if Kane says the Oilers are the only team he will go to.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 August 2022 11:07]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811553 is a reply to message #811550 ]	Fri, 26 August 2022 12:51

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:22

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:18

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2022 10:17

https://twitter.com/oileranalytics/status/156291761488802611 2?s=21&t=MmUtc-2arjvoFjd3lZxGbw

Cross Kane off the Leafs list.

Quote:

“I’m a winner and winners don’t go play for teams that can’t get past the first round, so my decision will be based off a team that’s pointing in the right direction, not one with constant failures.”

lol, I saw that too. I think it's fake though :)

I know. Still made me laugh.

I actually thought it could be real at first! I mean, it makes perfect sense. But had to do some in depth searching to find the interview never happened. If it did though, probably would have said that.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811607 is a reply to message #811553 ]	Fri, 02 September 2022 11:45

addicted2oil
Messages: 12
Registered: March 2010

No Cups

I can’t wait for OSCARGASM to return from Cottage Country so he can provide us with more juicy speculation tidbits!

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811645 is a reply to message #811607 ]	Sat, 03 September 2022 13:14

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4405
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

addicted2oil wrote on Fri, 02 September 2022 10:45

I can’t wait for OSCARGASM to return from Cottage Country so he can provide us with more juicy speculation tidbits!

Yeah Oscar's taken a bit of a summer sabbatical.. been a while

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811670 is a reply to message #808867 ]	Tue, 06 September 2022 12:00

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4405
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Anyone else smell a shoe dropping? .. with the Ryan Murray signing, the number of Oiler's matriculating LHS D-prospects, needing to drop salary cap, then; rumours of Patty O'Kane, as well as Buffalo's LTIR with Ben Bishop, forwards still out there like E. Rodrigue, S. Milano .. could there be a 3 party, multi-asset deal out there ?

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811672 is a reply to message #808867 ]	Tue, 06 September 2022 12:32

Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Saw rumor we may be bidding on Virtanen.

Kid is dumb as rocks, but guess he would basically be a Kassian replacement. Big lug that has skill (played like trash last year with all the distraction from being a scumbag). Obviously another flawed personality off the ice, but we don't seem to let that get in the way of things.

If he would come for Ryan Murray money, what the heck.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811674 is a reply to message #811672 ]	Tue, 06 September 2022 12:52

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4405
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 September 2022 11:32

Saw rumor we may be bidding on Virtanen.

Kid is dumb as rocks, but guess he would basically be a Kassian replacement. Big lug that has skill (played like trash last year with all the distraction from being a scumbag). Obviously another flawed personality off the ice, but we don't seem to let that get in the way of things.

If he would come for Ryan Murray money, what the heck.

Yeah I never included him .. there's been chatter about him as well..
He's been dumb as a stump for most of his career, hopefully for him he grows up.. happened to Kassian.. you never know.

There was a reason Vancouver gave him $2.5M last contract.. guy is big, fast, engages physically, and can shoot.. interview him, see what his attitude is.. if he's contrite.. on a 1 year x league minimum.. worth a try.. you could always send him down if it doesn't work out..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811682 is a reply to message #811672 ]	Tue, 06 September 2022 15:53

Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 September 2022 12:32

Saw rumor we may be bidding on Virtanen.

Kid is dumb as rocks, but guess he would basically be a Kassian replacement. Big lug that has skill (played like trash last year with all the distraction from being a scumbag). Obviously another flawed personality off the ice, but we don't seem to let that get in the way of things.

If he would come for Ryan Murray money, what the heck.

Ugh...there was a strong enough case against him that it went to trial. It is really hard to get convictions in sexual assaults because it's hard to get past a reasonable doubt when there are only two parties there, and there's no witnesses to confirm who's story is more accurate. But if a prosecutor felt there was enough here to take it to trial at all, that's notable.

I really don't want another creep on the team. Although I suppose when your team owner is Darryl Katz and your Vice-Chair is Bob Nicholson, then you know they're not too fussed about any of this stuff. Boys will be boys and all that, right?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811684 is a reply to message #811682 ]	Tue, 06 September 2022 16:00

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 760
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

boys will be boys (on the bus)

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811687 is a reply to message #808867 ]	Tue, 06 September 2022 20:24

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4405
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Rumour from Farhan Lalji that E. Rodrigue is holding out for $2.5M to $3.0M.. probably scratch him off the Oiler rumours list...

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811692 is a reply to message #811682 ]	Wed, 07 September 2022 08:13

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7793
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 September 2022 15:53

Ugh...there was a strong enough case against him that it went to trial. It is really hard to get convictions in sexual assaults because it's hard to get past a reasonable doubt when there are only two parties there, and there's no witnesses to confirm who's story is more accurate. But if a prosecutor felt there was enough here to take it to trial at all, that's notable.

I really don't want another creep on the team. Although I suppose when your team owner is Darryl Katz and your Vice-Chair is Bob Nicholson, then you know they're not too fussed about any of this stuff. Boys will be boys and all that, right?

Ha. The law isn't enough! We need extrajudicial law. Reasonable doubt? Feh. An accusation is enough! #OilersLaw. The Oilers are a poorly run hockey team, not a morality police.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811693 is a reply to message #811687 ]	Wed, 07 September 2022 08:45

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 06 September 2022 20:24

Rumour from Farhan Lalji that E. Rodrigue is holding out for $2.5M to $3.0M.. probably scratch him off the Oiler rumours list...

At this late in the offseason?

I would consider that an epic fail on any GM if he gets that at this time. This is the time of year when UFA's get PTO's and league minimum deals. I am sure he and his agent had offers a long time ago, he gambled there would be better ones, he lost. Plus the guy never scored more than 9 goals in any season until this past one. I wouldn't be giving a 29 yr old 3 mill just because he scored 19 goals last year. He's not going into his prime years, he's heading into his decline years real quick.

[Updated on: Wed, 07 September 2022 08:47]

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811694 is a reply to message #811692 ]	Wed, 07 September 2022 08:58

Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 08:13

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 September 2022 15:53

Ugh...there was a strong enough case against him that it went to trial. It is really hard to get convictions in sexual assaults because it's hard to get past a reasonable doubt when there are only two parties there, and there's no witnesses to confirm who's story is more accurate. But if a prosecutor felt there was enough here to take it to trial at all, that's notable.

I really don't want another creep on the team. Although I suppose when your team owner is Darryl Katz and your Vice-Chair is Bob Nicholson, then you know they're not too fussed about any of this stuff. Boys will be boys and all that, right?

Ha. The law isn't enough! We need extrajudicial law. Reasonable doubt? Feh. An accusation is enough! #OilersLaw. The Oilers are a poorly run hockey team, not a morality police.

I think that the standard of reasonable doubt is a good one for prison time. You don't want to lock up innocent people and it's worth letting some guilty people go to avoid that. However, like with civil suits, there's are different standards than JUST reasonable doubt. OJ Simpson was acquitted of murdering his ex-wife and her friend, but he was found responsible for it in civil court and owed them money, where the standard is that it was more likely he did it than that he didn't do it.

An acquittal does not prove someone is innocent, just that they weren't found conclusively to be guilty.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811697 is a reply to message #811694 ]	Wed, 07 September 2022 09:06

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7793
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 08:58

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 08:13

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 September 2022 15:53

Ugh...there was a strong enough case against him that it went to trial. It is really hard to get convictions in sexual assaults because it's hard to get past a reasonable doubt when there are only two parties there, and there's no witnesses to confirm who's story is more accurate. But if a prosecutor felt there was enough here to take it to trial at all, that's notable.

I really don't want another creep on the team. Although I suppose when your team owner is Darryl Katz and your Vice-Chair is Bob Nicholson, then you know they're not too fussed about any of this stuff. Boys will be boys and all that, right?

Ha. The law isn't enough! We need extrajudicial law. Reasonable doubt? Feh. An accusation is enough! #OilersLaw. The Oilers are a poorly run hockey team, not a morality police.

I think that the standard of reasonable doubt is a good one for prison time. You don't want to lock up innocent people and it's worth letting some guilty people go to avoid that. However, like with civil suits, there's are different standards than JUST reasonable doubt. OJ Simpson was acquitted of murdering his ex-wife and her friend, but he was found responsible for it in civil court and owed them money, where the standard is that it was more likely he did it than that he didn't do it.

An acquittal does not prove someone is innocent, just that they weren't found conclusively to be guilty.

Yup because innocence, by nature, can't be proved. So why make that the bar for decision making? The hockey team should be focused on hockey not policing morality. The hockey fan should also be focused on hockey, not some impossible standard of public opinion altruism.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022/23 Season - Your Transaction Lists [message #811709 is a reply to message #811693 ]	Wed, 07 September 2022 19:21

inverno76
Messages: 2336
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 08:45

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 06 September 2022 20:24

Rumour from Farhan Lalji that E. Rodrigue is holding out for $2.5M to $3.0M.. probably scratch him off the Oiler rumours list...

At this late in the offseason?

I would consider that an epic fail on any GM if he gets that at this time. This is the time of year when UFA's get PTO's and league minimum deals. I am sure he and his agent had offers a long time ago, he gambled there would be better ones, he lost. Plus the guy never scored more than 9 goals in any season until this past one. I wouldn't be giving a 29 yr old 3 mill just because he scored 19 goals last year. He's not going into his prime years, he's heading into his decline years real quick.

Unless you get signed by the Flames….29 is their new 24.

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