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 Oilers » Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference
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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788351 is a reply to message #788349 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10724
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27

Mike wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 05:44

Seeing the Habs in the Final, sure glad we didn't go for it this year.

Top 2 scorers in the NHL, likely consecutive Hart winners, including one of the greatest individual seasons of all time by someone who will go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

Top scoring Dman in the league. First time since Coffee in 86 iirc.

Probably the closest to a Norris trophy since Coffee in the 80s. Pronger was 7th in voting, thinking Darnell should be close to that.

Smith's .923 was the best save % ever on the Oilers over a season. His 2.31 GAA was 2nd to Tommy Salo's 2.22 in 2001-2002 in Oilers history. He's also likely to get some Vezina love, might be top 5. His 21-6-2 record was ridiculous.

If not this year - WHEN THE HELL is the right time to go for it? We didn't need a stud goalie. We didn't need a #1C, a true #1 dman, or even a PP specialist. WE needed very obtainable pieces. And now is the time to sell some future for some now...

Can't wait to hear more of the tempered expectations spewing out from these clowns' mouths.

I'm happy for my family members to get to see their team in the finals I suppose, but I am livid this morning knowing that this could easily have been us.

As the Habs have went along and found a way to get to the finals, I have wondered myself about what could have been for the Oilers. As I watch the Habs play, and I see a team that is:
- Goaltending: They are getting all world goaltending. Price used to be the #1 goalie in the world, he's been a shadow of himself for serval years. Even this season he has .901 in 25 games. They rely heavily on Price to stand on his head most games and he has. Price hasn't played at this level in 4 or 5 yrs.
- They have a big, punishing, kind of dirty defense that with the way the game is called in the playoffs, especially this playoff, they are allowed to do whatever they want.
- They play hard but they also play extremely defensive.

I do not think how the Habs play works in the regular season because more penalties get called and that extremely rough style they are allowed to play isn't tolerated in the regular season. It was proved as if the Flames didn't totally implode, the Habs don't make it in.

So it begs the question, if the Oilers went for it what would they have had to do to beat the Habs and how they are allowed to play?





This is a year where it really seems hopeless if you don't have crazy goaltending. Tampa is stacked, but they also have arguably the most consistently great goalie in the league. Got a .934 to .936 showdown in the finals :)

If you know your goalie is going to be fantastic, you probably want to try and add some snipers that don't need many chances to score and grinders to fill your lineup out, because you're planning to try to win 1-0 and 2-1 every night, which is what Montreal did. Need that goalie first though.

Say we did have a fantastic goalie. Snipers? McDrai are probably it, since we don't care to put Nuge in a position to be a shooter. Grinders? Not many that don't suck at hockey and are going to be endlessly giving up more chances than they can create... Yeah, not a great year to feel good about where our roster is based on who is having playoff success.

[Updated on: Mon, 28 June 2021 09:35]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788353 is a reply to message #788350 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27

Mike wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 05:44

Seeing the Habs in the Final, sure glad we didn't go for it this year.

Top 2 scorers in the NHL, likely consecutive Hart winners, including one of the greatest individual seasons of all time by someone who will go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

Top scoring Dman in the league. First time since Coffee in 86 iirc.

Probably the closest to a Norris trophy since Coffee in the 80s. Pronger was 7th in voting, thinking Darnell should be close to that.

Smith's .923 was the best save % ever on the Oilers over a season. His 2.31 GAA was 2nd to Tommy Salo's 2.22 in 2001-2002 in Oilers history. He's also likely to get some Vezina love, might be top 5. His 21-6-2 record was ridiculous.

If not this year - WHEN THE HELL is the right time to go for it? We didn't need a stud goalie. We didn't need a #1C, a true #1 dman, or even a PP specialist. WE needed very obtainable pieces. And now is the time to sell some future for some now...

Can't wait to hear more of the tempered expectations spewing out from these clowns' mouths.

I'm happy for my family members to get to see their team in the finals I suppose, but I am livid this morning knowing that this could easily have been us.

As the Habs have went along and found a way to get to the finals, I have wondered myself about what could have been for the Oilers. As I watch the Habs play, and I see a team that is:
- Goaltending: They are getting all world goaltending. Price used to be the #1 goalie in the world, he's been a shadow of himself for serval years. Even this season he has .901 in 25 games. They rely heavily on Price to stand on his head most games and he has. Price hasn't played at this level in 4 or 5 yrs.
- They have a big, punishing, kind of dirty defense that with the way the game is called in the playoffs, especially this playoff, they are allowed to do whatever they want.
- They play hard but they also play extremely defensive.

I do not think how the Habs play works in the regular season because more penalties get called and that extremely rough style they are allowed to play isn't tolerated in the regular season. It was proved as if the Flames didn't totally implode, the Habs don't make it in.

So it begs the question, if the Oilers went for it what would they have had to do to beat the Habs and how they are allowed to play?




Same as always. Better depth players, better defensive defensemen, and better goaltending. Although goaltending was really good this year. These are the problems we've been talking about for a decade now. I'd also consider doing some regular season load management with McDavid and Drai, but don't tell anyone that.

I think the Habs didn't work in the regular season this year because of injuries. They looked really good for the first few weeks and again right at the end of the season.


I totally agree. They need better depth players and more defense. I think Chia screwed that up with bad moves and bad contracts that left the Oilers hamstrung. I don't think you fix all that in a couple of offseasons especially when they have no money to spend. I am seeing some depth positions being addressed internally finally and I am hoping with some actual money to spend and the emergence of some young dmen, I am hopeful their issues can resolved. But what you said doesn't answer my questions. I keep seeing people say they should have gone for it because of the Habs magical run, so what should they have done? How do you address all of what they needed? Bringing in Hall doesn't solve all the problems.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788360 is a reply to message #788353 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 10:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27

Mike wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 05:44

Seeing the Habs in the Final, sure glad we didn't go for it this year.

Top 2 scorers in the NHL, likely consecutive Hart winners, including one of the greatest individual seasons of all time by someone who will go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

Top scoring Dman in the league. First time since Coffee in 86 iirc.

Probably the closest to a Norris trophy since Coffee in the 80s. Pronger was 7th in voting, thinking Darnell should be close to that.

Smith's .923 was the best save % ever on the Oilers over a season. His 2.31 GAA was 2nd to Tommy Salo's 2.22 in 2001-2002 in Oilers history. He's also likely to get some Vezina love, might be top 5. His 21-6-2 record was ridiculous.

If not this year - WHEN THE HELL is the right time to go for it? We didn't need a stud goalie. We didn't need a #1C, a true #1 dman, or even a PP specialist. WE needed very obtainable pieces. And now is the time to sell some future for some now...

Can't wait to hear more of the tempered expectations spewing out from these clowns' mouths.

I'm happy for my family members to get to see their team in the finals I suppose, but I am livid this morning knowing that this could easily have been us.

As the Habs have went along and found a way to get to the finals, I have wondered myself about what could have been for the Oilers. As I watch the Habs play, and I see a team that is:
- Goaltending: They are getting all world goaltending. Price used to be the #1 goalie in the world, he's been a shadow of himself for serval years. Even this season he has .901 in 25 games. They rely heavily on Price to stand on his head most games and he has. Price hasn't played at this level in 4 or 5 yrs.
- They have a big, punishing, kind of dirty defense that with the way the game is called in the playoffs, especially this playoff, they are allowed to do whatever they want.
- They play hard but they also play extremely defensive.

I do not think how the Habs play works in the regular season because more penalties get called and that extremely rough style they are allowed to play isn't tolerated in the regular season. It was proved as if the Flames didn't totally implode, the Habs don't make it in.

So it begs the question, if the Oilers went for it what would they have had to do to beat the Habs and how they are allowed to play?




Same as always. Better depth players, better defensive defensemen, and better goaltending. Although goaltending was really good this year. These are the problems we've been talking about for a decade now. I'd also consider doing some regular season load management with McDavid and Drai, but don't tell anyone that.

I think the Habs didn't work in the regular season this year because of injuries. They looked really good for the first few weeks and again right at the end of the season.


I totally agree. They need better depth players and more defense. I think Chia screwed that up with bad moves and bad contracts that left the Oilers hamstrung. I don't think you fix all that in a couple of offseasons especially when they have no money to spend. I am seeing some depth positions being addressed internally finally and I am hoping with some actual money to spend and the emergence of some young dmen, I am hopeful their issues can resolved. But what you said doesn't answer my questions. I keep seeing people say they should have gone for it because of the Habs magical run, so what should they have done? How do you address all of what they needed? Bringing in Hall doesn't solve all the problems.



You're just accepting the Oilers messaging but it's bunk.

Holland chose and signed all the depth players. All of them. He had enough money to get third and fourth liners - he just chose poorly on which ones he invested in. There's no reason to let him off the hook on that. It's not like he was forced to give Kassian a big contract or re-up Chiasson and Russell. He had money, and he spent it on players who didn't pay off. It's either his fault or it is the coach's fault for not using the players properly. Lots to blame Chiarelli for, but the depth of the team? That's on Holland now.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788363 is a reply to message #788360 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1396
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
Adam wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 10:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27

Mike wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 05:44

Seeing the Habs in the Final, sure glad we didn't go for it this year.

Top 2 scorers in the NHL, likely consecutive Hart winners, including one of the greatest individual seasons of all time by someone who will go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

Top scoring Dman in the league. First time since Coffee in 86 iirc.

Probably the closest to a Norris trophy since Coffee in the 80s. Pronger was 7th in voting, thinking Darnell should be close to that.

Smith's .923 was the best save % ever on the Oilers over a season. His 2.31 GAA was 2nd to Tommy Salo's 2.22 in 2001-2002 in Oilers history. He's also likely to get some Vezina love, might be top 5. His 21-6-2 record was ridiculous.

If not this year - WHEN THE HELL is the right time to go for it? We didn't need a stud goalie. We didn't need a #1C, a true #1 dman, or even a PP specialist. WE needed very obtainable pieces. And now is the time to sell some future for some now...

Can't wait to hear more of the tempered expectations spewing out from these clowns' mouths.

I'm happy for my family members to get to see their team in the finals I suppose, but I am livid this morning knowing that this could easily have been us.

As the Habs have went along and found a way to get to the finals, I have wondered myself about what could have been for the Oilers. As I watch the Habs play, and I see a team that is:
- Goaltending: They are getting all world goaltending. Price used to be the #1 goalie in the world, he's been a shadow of himself for serval years. Even this season he has .901 in 25 games. They rely heavily on Price to stand on his head most games and he has. Price hasn't played at this level in 4 or 5 yrs.
- They have a big, punishing, kind of dirty defense that with the way the game is called in the playoffs, especially this playoff, they are allowed to do whatever they want.
- They play hard but they also play extremely defensive.

I do not think how the Habs play works in the regular season because more penalties get called and that extremely rough style they are allowed to play isn't tolerated in the regular season. It was proved as if the Flames didn't totally implode, the Habs don't make it in.

So it begs the question, if the Oilers went for it what would they have had to do to beat the Habs and how they are allowed to play?




Same as always. Better depth players, better defensive defensemen, and better goaltending. Although goaltending was really good this year. These are the problems we've been talking about for a decade now. I'd also consider doing some regular season load management with McDavid and Drai, but don't tell anyone that.

I think the Habs didn't work in the regular season this year because of injuries. They looked really good for the first few weeks and again right at the end of the season.


I totally agree. They need better depth players and more defense. I think Chia screwed that up with bad moves and bad contracts that left the Oilers hamstrung. I don't think you fix all that in a couple of offseasons especially when they have no money to spend. I am seeing some depth positions being addressed internally finally and I am hoping with some actual money to spend and the emergence of some young dmen, I am hopeful their issues can resolved. But what you said doesn't answer my questions. I keep seeing people say they should have gone for it because of the Habs magical run, so what should they have done? How do you address all of what they needed? Bringing in Hall doesn't solve all the problems.



You're just accepting the Oilers messaging but it's bunk.

Holland chose and signed all the depth players. All of them. He had enough money to get third and fourth liners - he just chose poorly on which ones he invested in. There's no reason to let him off the hook on that. It's not like he was forced to give Kassian a big contract or re-up Chiasson and Russell. He had money, and he spent it on players who didn't pay off. It's either his fault or it is the coach's fault for not using the players properly. Lots to blame Chiarelli for, but the depth of the team? That's on Holland now.


I thought Turris was a coup. Was super excited about that signing. I was obviously very wrong, but I don't get paid millions to evaluate hockey players and build a team. He does, and he has a group of other people also being paid handsomely to figure this stuff out.

You have McDavid and Draisaitl. Those are the hard (impossible) pieces to get. The rest? The "filling out" of the roster? THAT is where, IMO, GMs earn their keep. Ours have failed for years.

Pretty disconcerting to already hear them putting tempered expectations out there....with Leon and Connor signed long term. Anything less than "we plan to challenge for the Cup" in any of the next 5 or so seasons should be grounds for dismissal. How can that NOT be your goal? Create the culture. The belief. "Fake it till you make it"? Don't come out and say that with the 2 best players in the world we really hope we can squeak in to the playoffs.

[Updated on: Mon, 28 June 2021 11:40]

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788364 is a reply to message #788363 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Mike wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 11:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 10:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27

Mike wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 05:44

Seeing the Habs in the Final, sure glad we didn't go for it this year.

Top 2 scorers in the NHL, likely consecutive Hart winners, including one of the greatest individual seasons of all time by someone who will go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

Top scoring Dman in the league. First time since Coffee in 86 iirc.

Probably the closest to a Norris trophy since Coffee in the 80s. Pronger was 7th in voting, thinking Darnell should be close to that.

Smith's .923 was the best save % ever on the Oilers over a season. His 2.31 GAA was 2nd to Tommy Salo's 2.22 in 2001-2002 in Oilers history. He's also likely to get some Vezina love, might be top 5. His 21-6-2 record was ridiculous.

If not this year - WHEN THE HELL is the right time to go for it? We didn't need a stud goalie. We didn't need a #1C, a true #1 dman, or even a PP specialist. WE needed very obtainable pieces. And now is the time to sell some future for some now...

Can't wait to hear more of the tempered expectations spewing out from these clowns' mouths.

I'm happy for my family members to get to see their team in the finals I suppose, but I am livid this morning knowing that this could easily have been us.

As the Habs have went along and found a way to get to the finals, I have wondered myself about what could have been for the Oilers. As I watch the Habs play, and I see a team that is:
- Goaltending: They are getting all world goaltending. Price used to be the #1 goalie in the world, he's been a shadow of himself for serval years. Even this season he has .901 in 25 games. They rely heavily on Price to stand on his head most games and he has. Price hasn't played at this level in 4 or 5 yrs.
- They have a big, punishing, kind of dirty defense that with the way the game is called in the playoffs, especially this playoff, they are allowed to do whatever they want.
- They play hard but they also play extremely defensive.

I do not think how the Habs play works in the regular season because more penalties get called and that extremely rough style they are allowed to play isn't tolerated in the regular season. It was proved as if the Flames didn't totally implode, the Habs don't make it in.

So it begs the question, if the Oilers went for it what would they have had to do to beat the Habs and how they are allowed to play?




Same as always. Better depth players, better defensive defensemen, and better goaltending. Although goaltending was really good this year. These are the problems we've been talking about for a decade now. I'd also consider doing some regular season load management with McDavid and Drai, but don't tell anyone that.

I think the Habs didn't work in the regular season this year because of injuries. They looked really good for the first few weeks and again right at the end of the season.


I totally agree. They need better depth players and more defense. I think Chia screwed that up with bad moves and bad contracts that left the Oilers hamstrung. I don't think you fix all that in a couple of offseasons especially when they have no money to spend. I am seeing some depth positions being addressed internally finally and I am hoping with some actual money to spend and the emergence of some young dmen, I am hopeful their issues can resolved. But what you said doesn't answer my questions. I keep seeing people say they should have gone for it because of the Habs magical run, so what should they have done? How do you address all of what they needed? Bringing in Hall doesn't solve all the problems.



You're just accepting the Oilers messaging but it's bunk.

Holland chose and signed all the depth players. All of them. He had enough money to get third and fourth liners - he just chose poorly on which ones he invested in. There's no reason to let him off the hook on that. It's not like he was forced to give Kassian a big contract or re-up Chiasson and Russell. He had money, and he spent it on players who didn't pay off. It's either his fault or it is the coach's fault for not using the players properly. Lots to blame Chiarelli for, but the depth of the team? That's on Holland now.


I thought Turris was a coup. Was super excited about that signing. I was obviously very wrong, but I don't get paid millions to evaluate hockey players and build a team. He does, and he has a group of other people also being paid handsomely to figure this stuff out.

You have McDavid and Draisaitl. Those are the hard (impossible) pieces to get. The rest? The "filling out" of the roster? THAT is where, IMO, GMs earn their keep. Ours have failed for years.

Pretty disconcerting to already hear them putting tempered expectations out there....with Leon and Connor signed long term. Anything less than "we plan to challenge for the Cup" in any of the next 5 or so seasons should be grounds for dismissal. How can that NOT be your goal? Create the culture. The belief. "Fake it till you make it"? Don't come out and say that with the 2 best players in the world we really hope we can squeak in to the playoffs.




I think it's just not that surprising, given the Oilers are one of the most old school teams, have spent less than almost anyone on analytics and there's no evidence they listen to the analytics people they DO have. Their management team is pretty much made up of people with similar backgrounds and ideas, so there's probably not a lot of new ideas in that room.

And as a result they fail. Again and again and again.

It's such a big summer for the team and I'm really worried we don't have the firepower in the head office to get accomplished what they need to...and when they fail, they're just going to blame cap space and Chiarelli again.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788366 is a reply to message #788360 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 10:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27

Mike wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 05:44

Seeing the Habs in the Final, sure glad we didn't go for it this year.

Top 2 scorers in the NHL, likely consecutive Hart winners, including one of the greatest individual seasons of all time by someone who will go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

Top scoring Dman in the league. First time since Coffee in 86 iirc.

Probably the closest to a Norris trophy since Coffee in the 80s. Pronger was 7th in voting, thinking Darnell should be close to that.

Smith's .923 was the best save % ever on the Oilers over a season. His 2.31 GAA was 2nd to Tommy Salo's 2.22 in 2001-2002 in Oilers history. He's also likely to get some Vezina love, might be top 5. His 21-6-2 record was ridiculous.

If not this year - WHEN THE HELL is the right time to go for it? We didn't need a stud goalie. We didn't need a #1C, a true #1 dman, or even a PP specialist. WE needed very obtainable pieces. And now is the time to sell some future for some now...

Can't wait to hear more of the tempered expectations spewing out from these clowns' mouths.

I'm happy for my family members to get to see their team in the finals I suppose, but I am livid this morning knowing that this could easily have been us.

As the Habs have went along and found a way to get to the finals, I have wondered myself about what could have been for the Oilers. As I watch the Habs play, and I see a team that is:
- Goaltending: They are getting all world goaltending. Price used to be the #1 goalie in the world, he's been a shadow of himself for serval years. Even this season he has .901 in 25 games. They rely heavily on Price to stand on his head most games and he has. Price hasn't played at this level in 4 or 5 yrs.
- They have a big, punishing, kind of dirty defense that with the way the game is called in the playoffs, especially this playoff, they are allowed to do whatever they want.
- They play hard but they also play extremely defensive.

I do not think how the Habs play works in the regular season because more penalties get called and that extremely rough style they are allowed to play isn't tolerated in the regular season. It was proved as if the Flames didn't totally implode, the Habs don't make it in.

So it begs the question, if the Oilers went for it what would they have had to do to beat the Habs and how they are allowed to play?




Same as always. Better depth players, better defensive defensemen, and better goaltending. Although goaltending was really good this year. These are the problems we've been talking about for a decade now. I'd also consider doing some regular season load management with McDavid and Drai, but don't tell anyone that.

I think the Habs didn't work in the regular season this year because of injuries. They looked really good for the first few weeks and again right at the end of the season.


I totally agree. They need better depth players and more defense. I think Chia screwed that up with bad moves and bad contracts that left the Oilers hamstrung. I don't think you fix all that in a couple of offseasons especially when they have no money to spend. I am seeing some depth positions being addressed internally finally and I am hoping with some actual money to spend and the emergence of some young dmen, I am hopeful their issues can resolved. But what you said doesn't answer my questions. I keep seeing people say they should have gone for it because of the Habs magical run, so what should they have done? How do you address all of what they needed? Bringing in Hall doesn't solve all the problems.



You're just accepting the Oilers messaging but it's bunk.

Holland chose and signed all the depth players. All of them. He had enough money to get third and fourth liners - he just chose poorly on which ones he invested in. There's no reason to let him off the hook on that. It's not like he was forced to give Kassian a big contract or re-up Chiasson and Russell. He had money, and he spent it on players who didn't pay off. It's either his fault or it is the coach's fault for not using the players properly. Lots to blame Chiarelli for, but the depth of the team? That's on Holland now.

I am not accepting Oilers messaging Adam. I am looking at the make up of the Oilers team and where they have been going over the last couple of seasons and comparing it to Habs and I don't see how they could have beat them this season with how they are playing the game.

When Chia came on, he felt the Oilers needed a bigger, heavier team. They needed to grind it out, we needed dmen who could beat on you with skating and puck moving being secondary when the league was moving towards, speed, skill and puck moving on defense. When he left the Oilers were too slow, didn't have enough puck moving and didn't have enough skill. So Holland has been reversing that. I don't think there is a chance in hell Jones or Bear would have made the team if Chia was here. No way they would have signed Barrie because they are smaller, skilled, puck movers. I am not convinced Yamo would have played if Chia was here because he was too small. Chia would have sold off JP because he wasn't hard enough.

Other than Petry, who on the Habs defense would you like that plays? You would lose your mind if the Oilers had Weber, Edmundson and Chariot in their top 4 because all of them are Adam Larsson in style and type of dman. The big, bruising, nasty, not the best skater, not overly offensive, defensive dman. The opposite of how most other teams in the NHL and teams the Habs have beaten have for dmen. You have questioned the value of Larsson for a while now yet they have 3 on their team. No chance in hell you would have been happy if the Oilers rolled out 3 larssons on defense to start the year.

If the Oilers traded for in the offense then signed up Anderson for what he got, a big, physical, winger with some skill, so in my opinion a better skating Lucic, you would have lost your mind at how dumb that would have been.

If the Oilers signed Perry, a guy who can barely skate, you would have lost it. Same goes for Staal.

Now Anderson of all of them can skate a little bit but the rest are big, slow guys, bruising guys, all those guys are playing critical roles for the Habs in these playoffs and all of them go against how the league was going, something you yourself advocated the Oilers needed to go too instead of a goon squad. I have also seen yourself advocate that you do not need a big, bruising team, you just need a good PP. The PP means nothing in these playoffs because nothing gets called.

So I agree with you, the Oilers need better depth and the depth guys they picked, some weren't the right ones. I also agree with you, Kassian makes too much and Holland made a mistake for giving him that much for how he has played so far BUT unless this is a one off year which I PRAY it is, in my opinion to compete, the Oilers need MORE Kassian's both at forward and on defense. If the league is going back to old school, the team that is the toughest wins, then the Oilers are not tough enough. Not even close. I watched the Habs with their slow, bruising, nasty defense beat a far superiorly talented team with very good depth from top to bottom by beating the hell out of them. And guess what, the more skilled team LOST again.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788367 is a reply to message #788364 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 11:53

Mike wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 11:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 10:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27

Mike wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 05:44

Seeing the Habs in the Final, sure glad we didn't go for it this year.

Top 2 scorers in the NHL, likely consecutive Hart winners, including one of the greatest individual seasons of all time by someone who will go down as one of the best to ever play the game.

Top scoring Dman in the league. First time since Coffee in 86 iirc.

Probably the closest to a Norris trophy since Coffee in the 80s. Pronger was 7th in voting, thinking Darnell should be close to that.

Smith's .923 was the best save % ever on the Oilers over a season. His 2.31 GAA was 2nd to Tommy Salo's 2.22 in 2001-2002 in Oilers history. He's also likely to get some Vezina love, might be top 5. His 21-6-2 record was ridiculous.

If not this year - WHEN THE HELL is the right time to go for it? We didn't need a stud goalie. We didn't need a #1C, a true #1 dman, or even a PP specialist. WE needed very obtainable pieces. And now is the time to sell some future for some now...

Can't wait to hear more of the tempered expectations spewing out from these clowns' mouths.

I'm happy for my family members to get to see their team in the finals I suppose, but I am livid this morning knowing that this could easily have been us.

As the Habs have went along and found a way to get to the finals, I have wondered myself about what could have been for the Oilers. As I watch the Habs play, and I see a team that is:
- Goaltending: They are getting all world goaltending. Price used to be the #1 goalie in the world, he's been a shadow of himself for serval years. Even this season he has .901 in 25 games. They rely heavily on Price to stand on his head most games and he has. Price hasn't played at this level in 4 or 5 yrs.
- They have a big, punishing, kind of dirty defense that with the way the game is called in the playoffs, especially this playoff, they are allowed to do whatever they want.
- They play hard but they also play extremely defensive.

I do not think how the Habs play works in the regular season because more penalties get called and that extremely rough style they are allowed to play isn't tolerated in the regular season. It was proved as if the Flames didn't totally implode, the Habs don't make it in.

So it begs the question, if the Oilers went for it what would they have had to do to beat the Habs and how they are allowed to play?




Same as always. Better depth players, better defensive defensemen, and better goaltending. Although goaltending was really good this year. These are the problems we've been talking about for a decade now. I'd also consider doing some regular season load management with McDavid and Drai, but don't tell anyone that.

I think the Habs didn't work in the regular season this year because of injuries. They looked really good for the first few weeks and again right at the end of the season.


I totally agree. They need better depth players and more defense. I think Chia screwed that up with bad moves and bad contracts that left the Oilers hamstrung. I don't think you fix all that in a couple of offseasons especially when they have no money to spend. I am seeing some depth positions being addressed internally finally and I am hoping with some actual money to spend and the emergence of some young dmen, I am hopeful their issues can resolved. But what you said doesn't answer my questions. I keep seeing people say they should have gone for it because of the Habs magical run, so what should they have done? How do you address all of what they needed? Bringing in Hall doesn't solve all the problems.



You're just accepting the Oilers messaging but it's bunk.

Holland chose and signed all the depth players. All of them. He had enough money to get third and fourth liners - he just chose poorly on which ones he invested in. There's no reason to let him off the hook on that. It's not like he was forced to give Kassian a big contract or re-up Chiasson and Russell. He had money, and he spent it on players who didn't pay off. It's either his fault or it is the coach's fault for not using the players properly. Lots to blame Chiarelli for, but the depth of the team? That's on Holland now.


I thought Turris was a coup. Was super excited about that signing. I was obviously very wrong, but I don't get paid millions to evaluate hockey players and build a team. He does, and he has a group of other people also being paid handsomely to figure this stuff out.

You have McDavid and Draisaitl. Those are the hard (impossible) pieces to get. The rest? The "filling out" of the roster? THAT is where, IMO, GMs earn their keep. Ours have failed for years.

Pretty disconcerting to already hear them putting tempered expectations out there....with Leon and Connor signed long term. Anything less than "we plan to challenge for the Cup" in any of the next 5 or so seasons should be grounds for dismissal. How can that NOT be your goal? Create the culture. The belief. "Fake it till you make it"? Don't come out and say that with the 2 best players in the world we really hope we can squeak in to the playoffs.




I think it's just not that surprising, given the Oilers are one of the most old school teams, have spent less than almost anyone on analytics and there's no evidence they listen to the analytics people they DO have. Their management team is pretty much made up of people with similar backgrounds and ideas, so there's probably not a lot of new ideas in that room.

And as a result they fail. Again and again and again.

It's such a big summer for the team and I'm really worried we don't have the firepower in the head office to get accomplished what they need to...and when they fail, they're just going to blame cap space and Chiarelli again.

Turris is the best example. We often talk about addition by subtraction in Edmonton, but we tend to forget those players are a product of subtraction by addition. You and me can be wrong about Turris. We don't watch a lot of random NHL games in detail, we don't have access to scouting reports and hours of tape, we don't have a theoretical analytics department crunching propietary numbers we don't have access. We just have a vague memory of a name we remember being pretty good.

The team, on the other hand, simply cannot make mistakes like that. They have all those advantages over us and their misuse of them have created a 3.3 million dollar black hole in their cap. Another 3.3 million dollar black hole in their cap. It's twice as damning when you and me can read sources, who aren't nearly as connected as a team and scouts, waving red danger flags.

What would I have done? I don't know. That isn't my job and I'm certainly not an expert. The Oilers, well, it is their job but despite their job titles, they aren't experts either. So maybe we should start looking at how these false experts are hired. Who are the pro scouts again?


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788372 is a reply to message #788349 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788373 is a reply to message #788372 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788374 is a reply to message #788373 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

The Flames traded for Lucic. Nothing is off the table. The fact that a player was traded for a given amount means they were available for approximately that price. Not everyone is Boston with Dougie Hamilton.
Hoffman allows you to move Nuge down and stabilize things. But you're right, this wasn't the year and it was better to make no changes and get swept by the Jets.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788375 is a reply to message #788373 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788379 is a reply to message #788374 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

The Flames traded for Lucic. Nothing is off the table. The fact that a player was traded for a given amount means they were available for approximately that price. Not everyone is Boston with Dougie Hamilton.
Hoffman allows you to move Nuge down and stabilize things. But you're right, this wasn't the year and it was better to make no changes and get swept by the Jets.

I don't think the Lucic for Neal trade is a fair comparison. The Flames desperately wanted to unload Neal because they thought he was useless. His contract would be a hard one for any team to take on so they would have to take a comparable salary back and they also thought they needed a goon to be successful. So it was a trade for useless players.

I never said it was impossible for the Flames to trade with the Oilers but I would guess that the Oilers are going to pay a lot more to get a Flames player than any team in the east.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788380 is a reply to message #788375 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.

You are totally right, they made a decision not to go for it. But do you honestly think if they had of traded for a month of Hall, which would have made many people happy, do you think they would have won anything?

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788381 is a reply to message #788380 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 15:15

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.

You are totally right, they made a decision not to go for it. But do you honestly think if they had of traded for a month of Hall, which would have made many people happy, do you think they would have won anything?

I think they would have had a better chance, even with Hall.

Now imagine if they got creative and made a good trade. Winnipeg was beatable. Maybe Montreal was too, we'll never know because they didn't give themselves a chance.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788382 is a reply to message #788379 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 15:13

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

The Flames traded for Lucic. Nothing is off the table. The fact that a player was traded for a given amount means they were available for approximately that price. Not everyone is Boston with Dougie Hamilton.
Hoffman allows you to move Nuge down and stabilize things. But you're right, this wasn't the year and it was better to make no changes and get swept by the Jets.

I don't think the Lucic for Neal trade is a fair comparison. The Flames desperately wanted to unload Neal because they thought he was useless. His contract would be a hard one for any team to take on so they would have to take a comparable salary back and they also thought they needed a goon to be successful. So it was a trade for useless players.

I never said it was impossible for the Flames to trade with the Oilers but I would guess that the Oilers are going to pay a lot more to get a Flames player than any team in the east.

The Flames desperately wanted to unload Bennett.

Anyways Pi is right that there were other options. It was an error to go into the playoffs with the existing lineup. Who knows if they would be where the Habs are but they couldn't possibly have done worse.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788383 is a reply to message #788381 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 15:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 15:15

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.

You are totally right, they made a decision not to go for it. But do you honestly think if they had of traded for a month of Hall, which would have made many people happy, do you think they would have won anything?

I think they would have had a better chance, even with Hall.

Now imagine if they got creative and made a good trade. Winnipeg was beatable. Maybe Montreal was too, we'll never know because they didn't give themselves a chance.


I guess we will have to disagree. After watching what Price and Vasilevsky do what they are doing, it sure looks like it will take .940 or better goaltending to beat them. The only guy in my opinion capable of maybe doing that in the playoffs is Hellebuyck and Price schooled him. So while as an Oilers fan I have a ton of what if, I am a bit glad they didn't make a ton of moves because it would have been for nothing.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788389 is a reply to message #788381 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 15:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 15:15

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.

You are totally right, they made a decision not to go for it. But do you honestly think if they had of traded for a month of Hall, which would have made many people happy, do you think they would have won anything?

I think they would have had a better chance, even with Hall.

Now imagine if they got creative and made a good trade. Winnipeg was beatable. Maybe Montreal was too, we'll never know because they didn't give themselves a chance.


What did Montreal pay for Staal? A 5th round pick? What about the Penguins and Carter?
I think it was a low pick there too. There were options out there for improving the depth of the team and the Oilers said they needed to save cap space in case Slater Koekkoek came back before the end of the season...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788390 is a reply to message #788375 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7165
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.


It was a foregone conclusion to Holland that the Maple Leafs were going to win the division. I wonder if he made his decision entirely around that back to back to back where we got swept and barely scored...it wouldn't surprise me if the Oilers saw that as the litmus test, felt they failed and decided that it was pointless doing anything besides throwing in the towel.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788391 is a reply to message #788390 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7793
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 16:43

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.


It was a foregone conclusion to Holland that the Maple Leafs were going to win the division. I wonder if he made his decision entirely around that back to back to back where we got swept and barely scored...it wouldn't surprise me if the Oilers saw that as the litmus test, felt they failed and decided that it was pointless doing anything besides throwing in the towel.

That's what I got listening and reading to the media after those three games. Right then and the season became pointless, so why try. It didn't matter that they started to play pretty good hockey right after.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788394 is a reply to message #788391 ]
Mon, 28 June 2021 18:30 Go to previous message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 16:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 16:43

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 14:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 28 June 2021 09:27



So when I look at the Oilers roster and how the Habs are made up and how in the playoffs as along as penalties aren't called, the Habs can do their thing. Adding Hall to the Oilers I don't think would have done it.



Let's take a look at what we might've done:

Sam Bennett went to the Panthers for forward prospect Emil Heineman and a second-round pick in 2022.

Heineman was a mid-second round pick who hasn't produced much, easy to find a comparable piece. And in spite of the wild spending spree Ken Holland went on last year, when it definitely was the time to sacrifice the future for the present, we have a '22 draft pick available. hindsight shows Bennett needed a change of scenery and would've been a great addition. From a money point of view, ship out Chiasson and someone like Haaaaaas (who has now left for nothing) and you've got the room.

I also would've pursued Mike Hoffman once we struck out on Hall. Kassian+ going the other way with some potential salary retention and he suddenly fits under the cap.

Two rather straightforward moves (since our guy doesn't like thinking outside the box) and the forward depth is noticeably better.



Do you actually think that the Flames would trade Bennett to the Oilers so they could see Bennett taking runs at them 8 -10 times a season for what they got from Florida? I sure don't. Maybe if the Oilers gave them just a crazy good offer that was such a gross overpay they couldn't refuse. Typically you don't see a ton of trade happen in the same division.

What would adding Hoffman do for the Oilers to beat the Habs? The Habs are beating teams by getting insanely good goaltending, playing lock down, give up nothing defense and playing a brutal, nasty, physical style where refs stand there and watch the Habs huge defense beat the hell out of teams.

There's always a few Bennetts available. It doesn't have to be that particular Bennett. The point is that the Oilers never looked to win this year. They were perfectly comfortable standing pat and hoping.


It was a foregone conclusion to Holland that the Maple Leafs were going to win the division. I wonder if he made his decision entirely around that back to back to back where we got swept and barely scored...it wouldn't surprise me if the Oilers saw that as the litmus test, felt they failed and decided that it was pointless doing anything besides throwing in the towel.

That's what I got listening and reading to the media after those three games. Right then and the season became pointless, so why try. It didn't matter that they started to play pretty good hockey right after.

Guys small sample sizes are the best because they’re easier to analyze.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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