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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820499 is a reply to message #820496 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 11:33

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:19

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

It also makes for better underdog stories. Like our 2006 Oilers run. Yes we were 41-28-13, but both Vancouver and LA had 42 wins to our 41.

Then the Oilers shouldn't have made the playoffs that year. I can't say the Flames shouldn't this year but be Ok with the Oilers. The NHL is a professional league where the goal is to win games, that's its. This applies in the playoffs where it's winner takes all. You either win or you lose, you don't get half credit for losing a playoff game in OT. It should apply to the regular season.

This happened pre-2006 too of course. You could make the playoffs with less wins, so long as you also had enough more ties. There has never been a time when the number of wins was the determining factor on playoff seeding.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820494 is a reply to message #820490 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:50

If the Flames make the playoffs, the league should be ashamed of themselves. The Flames real record when you just count wins & losses. 36 - 41. The Flames have won 7 less games than the Jets but are only 2 pts back due to the loser point.

I know from the leagues perspective, this is exactly why they have the loser point. It artificially keeps more losing teams in the race. The best the Flames can have record wise if they win out when you count wins/losses is .500.

If a team makes the playoffs, a team should win more games than they lose.

If the Flames make the playoffs the Jets should be ashamed of themselves, not the league. The league's only role is making sure the rules are known and followed. Asking the league to try to control outcomes is a recipe for foolishness. Imagine if the league, through their game enforcement employees, attempted to control who makes the playoffs because they didn't like the optics of a real record 36-41 team making the playoffs. Would that be a better or worse look than what's currently happening?

I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820497 is a reply to message #820494 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 11:28

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
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Location: AB Highway 100

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

You're old enough (I think) to remember dead puck era hockey when we had to watch teams play for the tie because every point was so important. They had to do something to make people interested in the end of games. It's actually incorrect to describe it as a loser point, it's not and the league did a wild disservice to itself by letting that perception linger. The extra point is for the team that plays to win because so many games were ending in ties. I would agree the league should change a regulation win to 3 points to make the end of regulation more interesting and I still don't understand why they didn't do that.

Most importantly we as fans definitely do not want the league attempting to control outcomes because of arbitrary reasons. Set the rules, let it play out. The Flames making the playoffs despite you not liking their record should not be a driver a change.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820500 is a reply to message #820497 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 12:02

benv
Messages: 602
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

You're old enough (I think) to remember dead puck era hockey when we had to watch teams play for the tie because every point was so important. They had to do something to make people interested in the end of games. It's actually incorrect to describe it as a loser point, it's not and the league did a wild disservice to itself by letting that perception linger. The extra point is for the team that plays to win because so many games were ending in ties. I would agree the league should change a regulation win to 3 points to make the end of regulation more interesting and I still don't understand why they didn't do that.

Most importantly we as fans definitely do not want the league attempting to control outcomes because of arbitrary reasons. Set the rules, let it play out. The Flames making the playoffs despite you not liking their record should not be a driver a change.

You can also spin this the other way: the Flames' 15 OT/shooutout losses show that they are bad at the "silly skills competitions" the NHL uses to decide tie games and that's what costing them points. If the NHL used playoff type OT to decide tie games, the Flames' record would perhaps be better.

Teams that are good at OT/shootout have the appearance of winning more games and not taking advantage of "loser points" because their extra-time wins show up in the standings as "wins". I would say a team with a ton of OT/shootout wins is taking advantage of the system more than a team with a bunch of OT/shootout losses.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820502 is a reply to message #820500 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 13:03

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
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Location: AB Highway 100

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benv wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 12:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

You're old enough (I think) to remember dead puck era hockey when we had to watch teams play for the tie because every point was so important. They had to do something to make people interested in the end of games. It's actually incorrect to describe it as a loser point, it's not and the league did a wild disservice to itself by letting that perception linger. The extra point is for the team that plays to win because so many games were ending in ties. I would agree the league should change a regulation win to 3 points to make the end of regulation more interesting and I still don't understand why they didn't do that.

Most importantly we as fans definitely do not want the league attempting to control outcomes because of arbitrary reasons. Set the rules, let it play out. The Flames making the playoffs despite you not liking their record should not be a driver a change.

You can also spin this the other way: the Flames' 15 OT/shooutout losses show that they are bad at the "silly skills competitions" the NHL uses to decide tie games and that's what costing them points. If the NHL used playoff type OT to decide tie games, the Flames' record would perhaps be better.

Teams that are good at OT/shootout have the appearance of winning more games and not taking advantage of "loser points" because their extra-time wins show up in the standings as "wins". I would say a team with a ton of OT/shootout wins is taking advantage of the system more than a team with a bunch of OT/shootout losses.

This is an excellent point and one reason why I'm a little worried about the Flames. They're a very good, annoying, and tough defensive team that kind of sucks at the novelty portion of a hockey game. Assuming their goalie doesn't turn into a ghost in the playoffs again (lol, that series was fun) they're going to create a hard series. Considering the western conference top 7 is so tight, adding a tough 8th place teams is a negative.

So go Jets. I guess.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820498 is a reply to message #820494 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 11:31

Adam
Messages: 7176
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 11:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 10:50

If the Flames make the playoffs, the league should be ashamed of themselves. The Flames real record when you just count wins & losses. 36 - 41. The Flames have won 7 less games than the Jets but are only 2 pts back due to the loser point.

I know from the leagues perspective, this is exactly why they have the loser point. It artificially keeps more losing teams in the race. The best the Flames can have record wise if they win out when you count wins/losses is .500.

If a team makes the playoffs, a team should win more games than they lose.

If the Flames make the playoffs the Jets should be ashamed of themselves, not the league. The league's only role is making sure the rules are known and followed. Asking the league to try to control outcomes is a recipe for foolishness. Imagine if the league, through their game enforcement employees, attempted to control who makes the playoffs because they didn't like the optics of a real record 36-41 team making the playoffs. Would that be a better or worse look than what's currently happening?

I agree, if the Jets don't make it, its on them.

Your point makes no sense to me. The league doesn't have to do anything different. Let their brutal refs do their usual, all you have to do is not reward the losing team for losing. The point of playing any competitive sport is to win, end of story. This isn't participation sports where everyone gets a reward just for showing up.

The league actually IS controlling outcomes but not the way you are describing. The league controls the outcome of games by tiering how they view losses. If you lose in regulation, you get hammered by not getting anything. If you make it to OT or a SO, here's your participation prize. So as long as a team gets to OT, they could literally pull their goalie and stand there doing nothing while the other team scores on the empty net and they get a point for that.

Well, you have to be tied to get to overtime, so you're still doing something.

If we want to be technical, the NHL has added a couple of additional points from what we once had. There's one extra point for losing in OT, and there's another extra point for winning in the shootout. Before, you lose in OT, it's just a loss, and if it was still tied at the end of OT, then it's a tie.

So only SOME of the extra points are truly loser points. Some of them are winner points too!

I would prefer a three point system to the current model, but that's not what we have and all teams are playing in the same system. They all know what the rules are and they can adapt accordingly.

Under McLellan, I believed that the Oilers prioritized extra points - going to a more passive, defensive structure in the last 10 minutes of tied games rather than trying to win it outright. I thought this was a dangerous and foolish way of approaching things, but it was a decision our team made based on the system that is in place. Maybe the Flames did something similar and getting the game to OT and securing at least one point was the priority. Maybe it's just coincidence. Either way, the Jets have the same options and abilities as the Flames. Paraphrasing the immortal Ivan Drago, if they lose, they lose.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820531 is a reply to message #812389 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 21:39

NetBOG
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Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820540 is a reply to message #820531 ]	Tue, 04 April 2023 22:33

Kr55
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 04 April 2023 21:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

My boy Marky! Pulled against the Ducks. Then gets owned by Chicago.

Sooooo good

https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/NOV19-We-Are-Laughing-Eyman.gif

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820576 is a reply to message #820531 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NZ Oiler Fan
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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820579 is a reply to message #820576 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 08:31

Kr55
Messages: 10777
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Location: Edmonton

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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.

Not as many elite linemates, he is back to his usual production, just without getting very emotionally involved anymore. He suddenly got totally disciplined to not ruin his contract year with suspensions. Might be hard to light that fire again.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820584 is a reply to message #820576 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 09:03

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.

I think the issue with Kadri and a few of the other guys on the team is Sutter. It would be hard to give a crap when you have a coach who probably rips you in the room, then goes out to the media and carves you up in the media. They look like a team that is absolutely miserable and just wants the season to be done so they don't have to listen to Sutter trash them anymore.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820587 is a reply to message #820584 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 09:39

Adam
Messages: 7176
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 09:03

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.

I think the issue with Kadri and a few of the other guys on the team is Sutter. It would be hard to give a crap when you have a coach who probably rips you in the room, then goes out to the media and carves you up in the media. They look like a team that is absolutely miserable and just wants the season to be done so they don't have to listen to Sutter trash them anymore.

Sutter is almost certainly a bit part of the issue. He's a blunt instrument, and I think he wants to bend players to play his system rather than adapting the system for the tools that he has at his disposal. Huberdeau's production has been halved in a single year. Weegar is a shadow of what he was in Florida. Kadri's had his challenges. Lindholm's production is way off. Mangiapane's about 40% down.

If the Flames miss the playoffs, I think there are changes coming. I figure either Sutter will be gone, or he'll be promoted in to the GM chair again. It'll be interesting either way.

I did think that the Eric Francis rant on Kadri was a little over the top. Not often you see intermission analysis included in the highlight package - which goes to show just how extreme it was.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820589 is a reply to message #820587 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 10:00

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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I don't think how Sutter coaches translates to todays game or player. I think last year was a fluke season where everything went right for them including injuries and their whole team had surprise career years including a few guys looking for new big money contracts. He likes to break guys down and force them to play a style that probably some players aren't willing or maybe even capable of doing on a consistent basis. Then when those players don't play how he wants, he shreds them.

He plays a throw it on the net and hope for something good to happen style which to me is good to make your advanced numbers look good but doesn't produce great results because you aren't creating good scoring chances and you are giving up the puck. Then he relies on his goalie to have to be lights out all the time because their margin for error is low. Markstrom was in the running for the vesina last year, had 9 shut outs, they did well. This year he hasn't been as good and surprise surprise the team doesn't win much.

It will be interesting to see what happens with them. Their team is set as they have a full roster with 219K of cap space listed. So they can't bring guys or make changes. So they will have to trade guys if they want to make the roster different plus Sutter has an extension starting next year so firing the coach right when his new deal starts is tough.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 April 2023 10:01]

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820599 is a reply to message #820589 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 12:15

bigEfromGP
Messages: 816
Registered: July 2006
Location: GP, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 10:00

I don't think how Sutter coaches translates to todays game or player. I think last year was a fluke season where everything went right for them including injuries and their whole team had surprise career years including a few guys looking for new big money contracts. He likes to break guys down and force them to play a style that probably some players aren't willing or maybe even capable of doing on a consistent basis. Then when those players don't play how he wants, he shreds them.

He plays a throw it on the net and hope for something good to happen style which to me is good to make your advanced numbers look good but doesn't produce great results because you aren't creating good scoring chances and you are giving up the puck. Then he relies on his goalie to have to be lights out all the time because their margin for error is low. Markstrom was in the running for the vesina last year, had 9 shut outs, they did well. This year he hasn't been as good and surprise surprise the team doesn't win much.

It will be interesting to see what happens with them. Their team is set as they have a full roster with 219K of cap space listed. So they can't bring guys or make changes. So they will have to trade guys if they want to make the roster different plus Sutter has an extension starting next year so firing the coach right when his new deal starts is tough.

I said it last year, Markstrom's first half of the season was such an anomaly, it completely skewed how everyone perceived that team to be; it wasn't close to realistic.

But I hope they don't make sweeping changes, I'd love to see them re-tool or a few tweaks and think they've got it figured out, only to completely collapse again next season. I really enjoy watching the Oilers win, but watching the Flames fail is a close second.

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820604 is a reply to message #820599 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 14:09

oilfan94
Messages: 409
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

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bigEfromGP wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 14:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 10:00

I don't think how Sutter coaches translates to todays game or player. I think last year was a fluke season where everything went right for them including injuries and their whole team had surprise career years including a few guys looking for new big money contracts. He likes to break guys down and force them to play a style that probably some players aren't willing or maybe even capable of doing on a consistent basis. Then when those players don't play how he wants, he shreds them.

He plays a throw it on the net and hope for something good to happen style which to me is good to make your advanced numbers look good but doesn't produce great results because you aren't creating good scoring chances and you are giving up the puck. Then he relies on his goalie to have to be lights out all the time because their margin for error is low. Markstrom was in the running for the vesina last year, had 9 shut outs, they did well. This year he hasn't been as good and surprise surprise the team doesn't win much.

It will be interesting to see what happens with them. Their team is set as they have a full roster with 219K of cap space listed. So they can't bring guys or make changes. So they will have to trade guys if they want to make the roster different plus Sutter has an extension starting next year so firing the coach right when his new deal starts is tough.

I said it last year, Markstrom's first half of the season was such an anomaly, it completely skewed how everyone perceived that team to be; it wasn't close to realistic.

But I hope they don't make sweeping changes, I'd love to see them re-tool or a few tweaks and think they've got it figured out, only to completely collapse again next season. I really enjoy watching the Oilers win, but watching the Flames fail is a close second.

I don't see how they can make sweeping changes. Biggest contract coming off the books is Lucic, with all that money going to Huberdeau. After next season they have more contracts expiring, but unfortunately for them, a lot of those are contracts they would prefer were a little bit longer. I am betting they fire their GM in the off-season, but it will be tough to fire Sutter since his new deal hasn't even started yet. It is a pretty depressing look for them the next few seasons, and considering all the crap I got from my Flames fans friends for years and years, I don't feel bad for them one bit. I try to be a good friend and not throw a lot of shade at them, but I'm not one that hopes they play well so we can beat them in the playoffs. They are right where I like them, too good to get a high draft pick (without a ton of luck), but not good enough to get in the playoffs.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820592 is a reply to message #820587 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 11:01

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 09:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 09:03

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 08:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 00:39

Nothing like watching Shelbyville piss away a playoff spot by losing to the tanking Hawks.

CPuck was a fun read this morning that's for sure.
What the heck is going on with Kadri? Seems like his give-a-crap meter is sitting on empty. Much as I've always hated him as a player, he's a guy that would give it all every single game. That's been completely absent from his game since signing down there.

I think the issue with Kadri and a few of the other guys on the team is Sutter. It would be hard to give a crap when you have a coach who probably rips you in the room, then goes out to the media and carves you up in the media. They look like a team that is absolutely miserable and just wants the season to be done so they don't have to listen to Sutter trash them anymore.

Sutter is almost certainly a bit part of the issue. He's a blunt instrument, and I think he wants to bend players to play his system rather than adapting the system for the tools that he has at his disposal. Huberdeau's production has been halved in a single year. Weegar is a shadow of what he was in Florida. Kadri's had his challenges. Lindholm's production is way off. Mangiapane's about 40% down.

If the Flames miss the playoffs, I think there are changes coming. I figure either Sutter will be gone, or he'll be promoted in to the GM chair again. It'll be interesting either way.

I did think that the Eric Francis rant on Kadri was a little over the top. Not often you see intermission analysis included in the highlight package - which goes to show just how extreme it was.

GM+Coach Sutter needs to happen. The hockey world demands it

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820623 is a reply to message #812389 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 21:41

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Wow I picked up that Wpg/Cgy game halfway through. Lousy hockey, it shouldn't instill fear into whoever faces either team in the first round.

These 2 teams might just collapse right down to the end.🤷🏻‍♂️

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820629 is a reply to message #820623 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 22:07

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 21:41

These 2 teams might just collapse right down to the end.🤷🏻‍♂️

Go Perds?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820655 is a reply to message #820629 ]	Wed, 05 April 2023 23:27

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 22:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 21:41

These 2 teams might just collapse right down to the end.🤷🏻‍♂️

Go Perds?

They said on Sportsnet that Wpg led the Western Conference mid January. I might like to see them miss because that would be a legendary collapse, and there are probably 5 or 6 players or so on that team that I'd want that for.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820674 is a reply to message #820629 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 10:54

Adam
Messages: 7176
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 22:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 21:41

These 2 teams might just collapse right down to the end.🤷🏻‍♂️

Go Perds?

If we were to secure the top seed, I think the battered Predators might be the team I'd want to face. No Josi, no Johansson, no Duchene, Ekholm on our side...it's pretty incredible that team is even still in the race, and I think they'll just be happy to make the dance.

I think Winnipeg and Calgary both could be somewhat challenging opponents. The Flames will be gritty and will relish the underdog role, and Hellebuyck could get hot for the Jets. Both beatable but I don't think there's an easy out there.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820675 is a reply to message #820674 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 10:58

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 06 April 2023 10:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 22:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 21:41

These 2 teams might just collapse right down to the end.🤷🏻‍♂️

Go Perds?

If we were to secure the top seed, I think the battered Predators might be the team I'd want to face. No Josi, no Johansson, no Duchene, Ekholm on our side...it's pretty incredible that team is even still in the race, and I think they'll just be happy to make the dance.

I think Winnipeg and Calgary both could be somewhat challenging opponents. The Flames will be gritty and will relish the underdog role, and Hellebuyck could get hot for the Jets. Both beatable but I don't think there's an easy out there.

Only issue is that Barrie would probably score a goal/game on us. Being an Ex-Oiler and all.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820676 is a reply to message #820674 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 11:21

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Thu, 06 April 2023 10:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 22:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2023 21:41

These 2 teams might just collapse right down to the end.🤷🏻‍♂️

Go Perds?

If we were to secure the top seed, I think the battered Predators might be the team I'd want to face. No Josi, no Johansson, no Duchene, Ekholm on our side...it's pretty incredible that team is even still in the race, and I think they'll just be happy to make the dance.

I think Winnipeg and Calgary both could be somewhat challenging opponents. The Flames will be gritty and will relish the underdog role, and Hellebuyck could get hot for the Jets. Both beatable but I don't think there's an easy out there.

Josi might come back, they have Saros, and the Nashville arena is fun on a bun but you're correct. Playoffs should be a wasted 8 days for them.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820660 is a reply to message #812389 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 02:44

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
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In a total douche-vortex, Cory Perry cheap shots Jacob Trouba. Couldn't have happened to a better guy.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820689 is a reply to message #812389 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 20:16

NetBOG
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This Knights-Kings game is about as big as an out of town game can be.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820690 is a reply to message #820689 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 20:57

Suomalainen
Messages: 900
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Too bad the Kings didn't show up. (to be fair, they were in the game until their goal was overturned)

97.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820691 is a reply to message #820690 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 20:59

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Suomalainen wrote on Thu, 06 April 2023 20:57

Too bad the Kings didn't show up. (to be fair, they were in the game until their goal was overturned)

And the freebie the refs gave them after Hotdog Phil pushed the net off.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820693 is a reply to message #812389 ]	Thu, 06 April 2023 23:03

NetBOG
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Whelp, pretty much guaranteed Kings@Oilers in the 1st round now.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820694 is a reply to message #820693 ]	Fri, 07 April 2023 07:12

Mike
Messages: 1397
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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 07 April 2023 02:03

Whelp, pretty much guaranteed Kings@Oilers in the 1st round now.

Bummer. I was hoping for our first division and conference title in almost 40 years.

Oh well - bring on the McLellan and the Kings

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820734 is a reply to message #812389 ]	Sun, 09 April 2023 20:52

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Pasta with a 3 goal night to get to 60. All that is left for the Bruins players to care about is milestones with the president's trophy locked. They will be getting pasta as much as they can, unless the coach yanks him to rest. McDavid might want to add to his goal buffer a bit.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820736 is a reply to message #820734 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 00:02

welcometotheOC
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 April 2023 20:52

Pasta with a 3 goal night to get to 60. All that is left for the Bruins players to care about is milestones with the president's trophy locked. They will be getting pasta as much as they can, unless the coach yanks him to rest. McDavid might want to add to his goal buffer a bit.

Better be a giant asterisk beside this win “record” in the record book. They have a full 11 (yes, eleven !! ) overtime and shootout wins. Impressive total, but for me, Montreal’s record still stands.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 April 2023 00:04]

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820737 is a reply to message #820736 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 01:15

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 00:02

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 April 2023 20:52

Pasta with a 3 goal night to get to 60. All that is left for the Bruins players to care about is milestones with the president's trophy locked. They will be getting pasta as much as they can, unless the coach yanks him to rest. McDavid might want to add to his goal buffer a bit.

Better be a giant asterisk beside this win “record” in the record book. They have a full 11 (yes, eleven !! ) overtime and shootout wins. Impressive total, but for me, Montreal’s record still stands.

Yeah - I saw the NHL promoting this "record" today, but there are several factors that make this not an apples to apples comparison:

- The Montreal Canadiens in 1976-77 had only an 80 game season. They lead by one point over the Bruins today, with the Bruins having played 80 games...but they get an extra two.
- There was no overtimes at all in 1976-77, it just ended in a tie. The Bruins have gone to extra time 16 times this year, so if it were apples to apples, then the Bruins would be 52-12-16 so far. Impressive to be sure, but that's only 120 points, which puts them well down the list.
- Even if you compare them to the 1995-96 Red Wings, who did have 82 games and overtime (ignoring the fact that the overtime is now easier to finish with two less skaters per team), the Bruins record would drop to 59-14-7 since there would be no shootout, and no loser points for their couple of overtime losses. That again is a pretty impressive 123 points, but they couldn't reach the Red Wings mark with two games remaining.

In short, anyone suggesting this is the most impressive season of all-time is just plain wrong.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820738 is a reply to message #820737 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 06:12

NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1189
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 04:15

welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 00:02

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 April 2023 20:52

Pasta with a 3 goal night to get to 60. All that is left for the Bruins players to care about is milestones with the president's trophy locked. They will be getting pasta as much as they can, unless the coach yanks him to rest. McDavid might want to add to his goal buffer a bit.

Better be a giant asterisk beside this win “record” in the record book. They have a full 11 (yes, eleven !! ) overtime and shootout wins. Impressive total, but for me, Montreal’s record still stands.

Yeah - I saw the NHL promoting this "record" today, but there are several factors that make this not an apples to apples comparison:

- The Montreal Canadiens in 1976-77 had only an 80 game season. They lead by one point over the Bruins today, with the Bruins having played 80 games...but they get an extra two.
- There was no overtimes at all in 1976-77, it just ended in a tie. The Bruins have gone to extra time 16 times this year, so if it were apples to apples, then the Bruins would be 52-12-16 so far. Impressive to be sure, but that's only 120 points, which puts them well down the list.
- Even if you compare them to the 1995-96 Red Wings, who did have 82 games and overtime (ignoring the fact that the overtime is now easier to finish with two less skaters per team), the Bruins record would drop to 59-14-7 since there would be no shootout, and no loser points for their couple of overtime losses. That again is a pretty impressive 123 points, but they couldn't reach the Red Wings mark with two games remaining.

In short, anyone suggesting this is the most impressive season of all-time is just plain wrong.

In a similar vein, we have the 2nd most regulation wins with 44 (Boston is 1st with 52) yet we are only 7th overall in league standings. Gotta take some tips from Cowtown on how to be better losers I guess.

Edit: Go Jets! Go Preds!

[Updated on: Mon, 10 April 2023 07:48]

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820743 is a reply to message #820738 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 13:37

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

No Cups

On the other hand, in Boston's favor, we should mention that they are the best team in the salary cap era, as well as in the 30+ teams era. If they're not having "the best" season in NHL history, I'd think they are certainly top-5 all-time ... which is pretty darn impressive in its own right.

Similarly, given lower overall NHL offense today, McDavid's season has been a top-10 individual season, even though statistically it is not.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820745 is a reply to message #820743 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 13:50

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

AndersonRules wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 13:37

On the other hand, in Boston's favor, we should mention that they are the best team in the salary cap era, as well as in the 30+ teams era. If they're not having "the best" season in NHL history, I'd think they are certainly top-5 all-time ... which is pretty darn impressive in its own right.

Even though Boston has been abusing the cap all year and will be unable to repeat this success next year, this is entirely correct.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820740 is a reply to message #812389 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 12:20

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

x - Vegas Golden Knights @GoldenKnights
Mark Stone is participating with the team during today’s practice in a non-contact jersey #VegasBorn

Oh look, Stone is back just in time for the playoffs. Perfect timing because Vegas use all his LTIR space in the regular season.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820741 is a reply to message #820740 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 13:15

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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I thought the league was watching to make sure teams didn't do exactly this. Putting guys on LTIR to create cap space then miraculously that player is completely healthy and ready to go game 1.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820742 is a reply to message #820741 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 13:23

NZ Oiler Fan
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 16:15

I thought the league was watching to make sure teams didn't do exactly this. Putting guys on LTIR to create cap space then miraculously that player is completely healthy and ready to go game 1.

I said it when Tampa did it & I'll say it again: The solution seems stupidly simple: You must be cap compliant for the playoffs. Why teams all of a sudden get a salary cap exemption for the most important part of the entire season is beyond me.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820754 is a reply to message #820742 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 16:20

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 13:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 16:15

I thought the league was watching to make sure teams didn't do exactly this. Putting guys on LTIR to create cap space then miraculously that player is completely healthy and ready to go game 1.

I said it when Tampa did it & I'll say it again: The solution seems stupidly simple: You must be cap compliant for the playoffs. Why teams all of a sudden get a salary cap exemption for the most important part of the entire season is beyond me.

100% Every team has to be cap compliant for the whole season in every game so should be the case in the playoffs. Now maybe there is/will be a case where a guy is legit close to being able to return and he literally needs right up until game 1 of the playoffs to be able to go safely. You could make it so for every game, you have to be cap compliant on the ice. So your on ice roster every game has to be 82.5 mill. However a team wants to do that, is up to them.

So with Stone and his 9.5 mill that will come into play, if he plays, you have to figure out how to fit in his 9.5 mill. So that probably means you are sitting several guys and playing short handed to do it. Let the team run it however they want, as long as they are 82.5 mill when the drop of the puck happens.

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820755 is a reply to message #820754 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 17:32

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 16:20

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 13:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 16:15

I thought the league was watching to make sure teams didn't do exactly this. Putting guys on LTIR to create cap space then miraculously that player is completely healthy and ready to go game 1.

I said it when Tampa did it & I'll say it again: The solution seems stupidly simple: You must be cap compliant for the playoffs. Why teams all of a sudden get a salary cap exemption for the most important part of the entire season is beyond me.

100% Every team has to be cap compliant for the whole season in every game so should be the case in the playoffs. Now maybe there is/will be a case where a guy is legit close to being able to return and he literally needs right up until game 1 of the playoffs to be able to go safely. You could make it so for every game, you have to be cap compliant on the ice. So your on ice roster every game has to be 82.5 mill. However a team wants to do that, is up to them.

So with Stone and his 9.5 mill that will come into play, if he plays, you have to figure out how to fit in his 9.5 mill. So that probably means you are sitting several guys and playing short handed to do it. Let the team run it however they want, as long as they are 82.5 mill when the drop of the puck happens.

It's the fact that there are easy fixes and that none have been implemented that lead me to believe the NHL has no interest in fixing this.

And it makes some sense in a way. Trades drive interest, and create excitement in February. If you crush all the little loopholes, then it hurts teams' abilities to add and you'll see less trades. If you care more about the league as a whole than about who wins, then maybe you see this as acceptable, and you can rationalize it that it's a real risk for a team that does it because if you load up and miss the playoffs because you miss the guys who you stashed on LTIR, then it's on you.

It actually benefits the deepest and best teams in the league who can get stronger while mitigating that risk. Most teams wouldn't be able to go without their top player for an entire season like the Lightning did, or to sit a Patrick Kane from the trade deadline until the end of the season like the Blackhawks did, or to play a shell game of revolving LTIRs like the Bruins did this year. And some teams might just not think of it, just in case Slater Koekkoek or Ryan Murray has to come back from injury before the end of season!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820747 is a reply to message #820741 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 14:04

Adam
Messages: 7176
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 13:15

I thought the league was watching to make sure teams didn't do exactly this. Putting guys on LTIR to create cap space then miraculously that player is completely healthy and ready to go game 1.

I think the NHL has studiously avoided promising to do anything about this.

The fact is, they like it because it creates more opportunity for trades at the deadline. This is just a fact of life now.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Regular Season OOT Thread [message #820750 is a reply to message #820747 ]	Mon, 10 April 2023 14:28

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 14:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 April 2023 13:15

I thought the league was watching to make sure teams didn't do exactly this. Putting guys on LTIR to create cap space then miraculously that player is completely healthy and ready to go game 1.

I think the NHL has studiously avoided promising to do anything about this.

The fact is, they like it because it creates more opportunity for trades at the deadline. This is just a fact of life now.

Watch the Oilers get hit with losing a 3rd round pick if McLeod is back for game 1

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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