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NHL » Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...

Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades... [message #824561 is a reply to message #824550 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 16:39

Adam
Messages: 7757
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:11

I believe in self-fulfilling prophesies. If the fans and the media spew the narrative that no one wants to play somewhere then it becomes reality. You need people to push bash back, and that includes fan bases as well as players and management.

McDavid does not seem to be that guy. McDavid played for Eerie when no one else would. Flailing from here would be a black mark on his legacy. Lauren Kyle is an Edmonton girl. Draisaitl is toighter than a tiger with McDavid. The team (although late) is doing it's best to surround him with teammates he wants to play with, and the franchise has entered the Cup contender stage.

Anyone can find holes in any roster, but considering 29 and 97's current and future salaries it is more than likely they remain Oilers until the end of their careers. I will give them both a Ray Bourque caveat, and if the Oilers cannot win a Cup in their primes I will support whatever franchise they turn to for the last ditched effort for a championship.

I would be shocked if they move away before another long-term deal is signed. Reality has shown that franchise players like to remain loyal and finish what they have started, and only leave in extreme circumstances.

(33 years from a Cup also included a decade of being a borderline feeder team to other NHL teams where we could not afford to pay a fair salary to our stars).

While I appreciate your optimism, I'm a realist. Players, especially the very best, want to win championships. McDavid and Draisaitl have been exceptionally good the last few years and the team has failed to surround them with adequate talent to be considered one of the top teams in the league or to contend for the Cup. McDavid even took a significant discount to what he could have got in order to lock in the best chance for the Oilers to win over his last deal.

In the time that Holland has been here, he tried to set expectations of a long turnaround when he joined and complained about the cap available. Since then he wrote off one year, saying that he didn't think we were ready to compete, while in a weak Canadian division that saw the lowly Habs go all the way to the Finals. We've seen him complain at every deadline day that he doesn't have any cap room to do anything more than the minimum, while the best teams in the league use every angle to make their teams better. We avoid doing any of those things in case Slater Koekkoek might be healthy enough to play. We're hearing him this summer say that he was counting on the cap increasing and that the fact it hasn't makes his job so much harder and he doesn't think he can add any significant pieces to the team moving forward. We have seen him commit in every year of his tenure to a below average goaltending tandem - one that isn't just underperforming, but even looks below average on paper before the first puck is dropped.

If you're scoring 150 points in the regular season and then driving a massive percentage of the team's offence in the post-season, you're going to at some point expect that management should have their game at a similar level. We just don't and we now have the GM saying "I can't guarantee we are ever going to win" and expressing doubt about his ability to do anything meaningful to improve the team.

If I'm looking at my relatively short career - one that already had one huge scare a couple years ago - and thinking about my legacy, I know I really need a Stanley Cup at some point to not have a question stuck to me the rest of my life. If I am McDavid, and I am losing faith in Management's ability to help me win, then I'm going to want to go somewhere where the management has the confidence and capability to truly go for it, and where they aren't constrained by a refusal to use any loopholes in the Cap rules. Even if I'm leaving more money on the table, I'm going somewhere where I can go get myself a Cup ring.

People sometimes want to compare it to Ovechkin, but I don't think it's a good comparison. OV signed a 12-year deal in 2008, locking him up until the end of 2020-21. He had won a Cup before he faced free agency. That said, his owner was pretty committed to surrounding him with good players and to give him a great chance of success. In all that time, other than his rookie season, they only missed the playoffs once and there was a high expectation of the team at all times. I don't remember them saying 4 or 5 years in that they couldn't go for it every year.

Two years from now, McDavid will have been in the league 11 years. In that time, Crosby had won two Cups and been to two more Finals. He'd never missed the playoffs after his rookie year. He wouldn't miss again until this season, his 18th.

Tavares and Stamkos are maybe the best comparable because things were definitely more up and down for the Lightning in his early years. Neither are superstars on even close to the same level, but both played for teams that were more challenged in their early years. Stamkos missed the playoffs four out of his first 8 seasons ahead of his UFA opportunity. His team was clearly on the rise though at the point where he faced down free agency, making the Finals in 2014-15, and the semi-finals the next year. Florida has the advantage of some great tax breaks too, so they have an extra leg up. The Lightning made a pitch to him and asked for a significant discount to market in order to stay (they asked the same of Hedman).
He made the right decision, of course, as the Lightning WERE on a path to victory. They've been in 3 of the next seven Finals, winning twice.

Meanwhile the Islanders had an extra year with Tavares before UFA compared to Stamkos. He was a UFA after 9 years with the Isles, and in that time, they missed the playoffs six out of those 9 years. They won all of a single playoff round. They'd looked like they might be building something towards the end of his time there, but he saw an opportunity to go play for a team that was a lot deeper. That hasn't translated in to any post-season success for him yet, something I'm sure he's a little chagrinned about, but there's nothing to suggest he'd have been better off with the Islanders.

Listen, I'd love to see McDavid stick around long-term. Draisaitl too. But they've put up with mediocre management for a very long time. We've heard rumours that the agent already delivered one warning to the team a couple of summers ago. I think that they're not just staying here out of the goodness of their hearts. The team needs to show that it can win, or they're gone. Despite that, we have the GM saying that he thinks his hands are tied and that he's stuck with the goalies he has, and that he can't do anything else besides tinker at the edges of the roster this year (and hopefully re-sign Bouchard). They're almost certainly trading away their 6th best forward and hoping that someone from within the organization magically appears to cheaply fill that role or that another friend of Connor is healthy and ready to rebound. And they're already blaming the salary cap for their future woes, suggesting that if it just went up more this year, they'd be able to do way more, ignoring that the cap is really the same for every team in the league.

If I'm a star player and I've read the last few interviews from Holland, I'm going to have some grave concerns and those wouldn't have me rushing to pick up a pen to sign the next deal, never mind giving the discount to market that the Oilers really will need to be asking the two of these players to consider taking.

In short, I wish I shared your optimism, but I feel if we aren't AT LEAST Cup Finalists within the next two seasons, we're losing both these players for greener pastures.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Mon, 05 June 2023 17:50
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: smyth260 on Mon, 05 June 2023 18:30
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 06 June 2023 13:45
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: hitmen4 on Tue, 06 June 2023 16:16
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: benv on Tue, 06 June 2023 17:14
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Mike on Wed, 07 June 2023 06:40
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Wed, 07 June 2023 11:46
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Wed, 07 June 2023 11:41
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Thu, 08 June 2023 12:44
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: benv on Thu, 27 July 2023 15:11
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 27 July 2023 15:23
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Goose on Thu, 27 July 2023 16:37
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Thu, 27 July 2023 16:55
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Thu, 27 July 2023 17:16
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: PlusOne on Fri, 28 July 2023 20:09
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Wed, 07 June 2023 15:06
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: CrusaderPi on Mon, 19 June 2023 09:33
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: CrusaderPi on Mon, 19 June 2023 10:01
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 16 June 2023 16:50
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Fri, 16 June 2023 16:54
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Dragon_Matt on Mon, 19 June 2023 15:14
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Mon, 19 June 2023 15:19
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 19 June 2023 15:31
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Fri, 23 June 2023 18:45
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: kungpaobenji27 on Fri, 23 June 2023 20:57
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Mon, 26 June 2023 13:31
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:11
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Rutuu on Mon, 26 June 2023 20:49
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:38
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:43
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 27 June 2023 10:00
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Tue, 27 June 2023 10:25
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: kungpaobenji27 on Sat, 24 June 2023 11:30
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Sat, 24 June 2023 15:58
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: kungpaobenji27 on Sat, 24 June 2023 18:55
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Mon, 26 June 2023 13:43
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Mon, 26 June 2023 11:36
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 26 June 2023 12:50
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Mon, 26 June 2023 12:54
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 26 June 2023 12:58
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 26 June 2023 13:03
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Mon, 26 June 2023 13:26
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Tue, 04 July 2023 17:30
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 14:26
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 14:40
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 06 July 2023 09:51
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Wed, 05 July 2023 20:00
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Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 06 July 2023 14:50
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 06 July 2023 15:34
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: NZ Oiler Fan on Thu, 06 July 2023 16:30
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Thu, 06 July 2023 16:43
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: AndersonRules on Thu, 06 July 2023 17:17
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Thu, 06 July 2023 17:36
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: AndersonRules on Thu, 06 July 2023 22:08
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: oilfan94 on Fri, 07 July 2023 09:58
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Sun, 09 July 2023 14:55
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Sun, 09 July 2023 22:43
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Mon, 10 July 2023 12:27
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 14 July 2023 12:21
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Fri, 21 July 2023 18:24
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: smyth260 on Sat, 22 July 2023 11:05
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: Skookum Jim on Sun, 23 July 2023 16:49
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: Adam on Sun, 23 July 2023 20:39
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: smyth260 on Sun, 23 July 2023 22:43
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: Kr55 on Mon, 24 July 2023 01:04
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 24 July 2023 11:16
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: CrusaderPi on Mon, 24 July 2023 12:01
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 26 July 2023 15:59
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: Adam on Wed, 26 July 2023 16:13
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: inverno76 on Thu, 27 July 2023 09:39
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 27 July 2023 10:26
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 27 July 2023 10:55
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: inverno76 on Thu, 27 July 2023 11:35
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades	By: smyth260 on Thu, 27 July 2023 11:51
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Goose on Thu, 27 July 2023 23:06
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 27 July 2023 23:19
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: kungpaobenji27 on Fri, 28 July 2023 12:12
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Goose on Thu, 27 July 2023 23:16
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Fri, 28 July 2023 01:03
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:29
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 01 August 2023 08:33
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 01 August 2023 12:43
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 01 August 2023 13:49
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 01 August 2023 09:23
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 01 August 2023 09:32
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 01 August 2023 10:18
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Mike on Tue, 01 August 2023 05:54
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 01 August 2023 08:32
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Tue, 01 August 2023 09:09
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: kungpaobenji27 on Wed, 02 August 2023 21:07
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 03 August 2023 09:18
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: inverno76 on Fri, 04 August 2023 09:32
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Goose on Fri, 04 August 2023 11:19
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 08 August 2023 09:38
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: NetBOG on Fri, 04 August 2023 22:05
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: NetBOG on Wed, 23 August 2023 15:13
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 23 August 2023 16:04
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 24 August 2023 12:34
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Thu, 24 August 2023 13:52
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Thu, 31 August 2023 19:24
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Thu, 31 August 2023 23:29
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 01 September 2023 08:06
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: oilfan94 on Fri, 01 September 2023 08:16
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 12 September 2023 12:10
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 12 September 2023 13:08
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Wed, 11 October 2023 13:00
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: NetBOG on Tue, 10 October 2023 10:11
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Kr55 on Tue, 10 October 2023 10:44
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 10 October 2023 12:49
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: kungpaobenji27 on Tue, 10 October 2023 13:32
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 10 October 2023 15:34
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 10 October 2023 15:31
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: oilfan94 on Tue, 10 October 2023 16:57
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: Adam on Tue, 10 October 2023 17:34
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: oilfan94 on Wed, 11 October 2023 09:17
Re: Summer 2023 Signings and Trades...	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 11 October 2023 09:33

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