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Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826336]	Thu, 26 October 2023 21:30

OilFans
Messages: 1561
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

0 Final

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826339 is a reply to message #826336 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 21:57

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Jon Quick gets some more revenge for the Yakupov celly

We bad, like really bad.

This is kind of the team we'd have if we didn't win the McLottery. Could say we'd have an extra 11M of cap space, but we would probably have signed Connor Brown for 4M x3. And Holland could waste another 7M on buyouts easy. Holland could still be our GM, who would turn down 5M/season after he was washed out in Detroit? Bobby Nicks would be here to for sure.

No way Strome or Eichel would still be here if we drafted them. I guess Drai may not either.

Potentially we would have had 1 or 2 more 1st OA picks since 2015 though.

[Updated on: Thu, 26 October 2023 21:59]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826340 is a reply to message #826336 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 21:57

nullterm
Messages: 1034
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Where do we go from here. This doesn't feel like a rut, this feels like a broken team that doesn't have the ability to fix itself.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826341 is a reply to message #826340 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 21:59

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 21:57

Where do we go from here. This doesn't feel like a rut, this feels like a broken team that doesn't have the ability to fix itself.

It’s players only meeting time.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826345 is a reply to message #826341 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 22:47

g2k
Messages: 2840
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

2 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 21:59

nullterm wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 21:57

Where do we go from here. This doesn't feel like a rut, this feels like a broken team that doesn't have the ability to fix itself.

It’s players only meeting time.

I feel a 4 week Captain skate in 2024 will spring board this team into a good start and a great season.

Spring 2025 or bust.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826346 is a reply to message #826341 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 22:48

HamBlaster
Messages: 989
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

In all honesty, it's "Woodcroft took a team that was contending for the Cup and decided he was going to change how all of these guys play hockey, and it failed miserably and he was canned for it" time.

Woodcroft made his first major error as an NHL coach. He thought he could change the way this team plays the game, and in the process he took away the spirit and soul of their game.

One, maybe two more games like this, and Woody is gonzo. He's pooched a team that should have been a legit contender this year.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826347 is a reply to message #826346 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 22:54

nullterm
Messages: 1034
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 21:48

If he drops the Heritage Classic like tonight against the Flames, we'll have a new coach vs the Stars next Thursday.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826354 is a reply to message #826346 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 08:41

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 22:48

This starts off with a false premise. The Oilers were not contenders when Woody took over. They were the same flawed coach killing team they are now. Prior to Woodcroft they'd just ran through 2 well regarded veteran head coaches plus Hitchcock who had entered the Pat Quinn zone.

Despite your premise, I think there's a good chance the conclusion will be correct. I wouldn't fire him because no one can turn that depth, defense, and 'tending (someone was paid 25 million dollars to build this) into a contender, but my vote rarely counts for all that much.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826355 is a reply to message #826354 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 09:33

HamBlaster
Messages: 989
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

Where did I say that they were contending before Woodcroft? I said that he took a team... last year's team... and over the offseason decided he was going to change the way that they play hockey.

The Oilers have been contenders the past couple of seasons. When you're that close, it's not about making a dramatic change... it's about trying to find the right personnel and making the small adjustments to minimize the weaknesses in your game.

Woodcroft completely derailed this squad. They don't look anything like last year's team, and definitely look nothing like a contender.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826360 is a reply to message #826355 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 10:20

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 09:33

Woodcroft had to change the way the played hockey because of how fully and completely they were exposed by the Knights and Avalanche. They simply weren't good enough to beat the good teams in the NHL when the games really mattered. Nothing we saw in the playoffs, despite what the paid activists say, should suggest they're small adjustments away from seriously contending for the cup.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826370 is a reply to message #826360 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 11:57

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 10:20

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 09:33

No accident the Oilers had a 50 win season last year, they were 3-1 against Vegas. Vegas adjusted, the Oilers didn't have an answer of their own. It was pretty clear that a systemic change in the defensive zone might have been the next step to overcoming the problems presented by Vegas in the playoffs last year. Whether that was a tweak or more than a tweak, who knows? You count on the staff to devise a viable tweak or strategy, you count on them to communicate and roll out the changes. You count on the players to grasp the systemic changes and the assignments involved. Importantly, you count on adequate responses and adjustments when things aren't working early in the season, even within the confines of a hockey game. We've never seen the ability to adapt and adjust quickly from the group or the staff. None of it has gone well, so far.

Still a few games away from looking at a turnaround required similar to St. Louis a few years back, but they need Vegas to slump big time to catch them. It's not like they're dropping tight games, its more like they need an overhaul in the opposite direction. The Heritage Classic is a big game for the coaching staff, I'd say. Personnel wise, I'm not sure you wait, there are a couple guys on the farm at fwd and on d that you probably lose nothing in promoting for a look....Brown hasn't done anything that would make you keep him here for his 10 game bonus and the implications of that.

Holland hasn't lived up to the billing , but at the same time we see other teams do more with less in the playoffs, every year. We've seen it here. Doubtful Holland is fired in-season. He should be looking for some potential solutions in terms of personnel changes and behind the bench, because there's a ton on the line for this season and next, and the organization can't let the season get away. I can't see how Woody has much rope, but then again what are the options that can deliver an adjustable game strategy suited for the squad and get whats required out of the same players? 3rd coaching staff in the 8+ seaons of McDavid. 🤷‍♂️

Pretty puzzling how they're in this spot, there's a number of people that have to figure it out.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826371 is a reply to message #826370 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 12:02

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I think Woody overreacted. They didn't need to change the way they defended (or offseason train like Ekholm) rather, they need to learn multiple systems to be able to change during the course of a game.
We won last year... lots. We got exposed because he was outcoached at the right time with no response.
The new strategy isn't working, but let's just chalk it up to everyone needing to learn. Go back to how we did it last year (could it get worse?) and since we don't play until Sunday, I hope they're all being bag skated for the level of care and effort they've put out so far.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826374 is a reply to message #826370 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 13:27

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 11:57

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 10:20

HamBlaster wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 09:33

It's not puzzling at all.

Last year the Oilers gave up the second most goals of any playoff team and were then roasted in the playoffs by Vegas. Two years ago the Oilers gave up the third most goals of any playoff team and were roasted in the playoffs by Denver. Giving up goals has been a problem for a long long time. Since the Oilers decided to come back with basically the same defense they've had the only thing they could change was the structure. This might still work even though it clearly isn't right now.

The far bigger change this year is the Oilers simply haven't been able to outscore their obvious defensive issues. They gone from 3.2 GF/game in 2020 to 3.5 to 3.9 to 2.4 this year. Their GA/game over the same period is 2.8, 3.1, 3.2 to 4.2 this year.

4.2 GA / game won't last. They'll get better and they'll start to look more like the team that won 50 games last year. But that won't make them a contender because the same flaws still exist. This isn't because they're not trying hard enough, they got exposed by Vegas last year and need to adapt offensively too.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826375 is a reply to message #826374 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826376 is a reply to message #826375 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 14:04

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

More than anything else with the current Oilers I'd like to know what w as discussed about the goaltending last offseason.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826377 is a reply to message #826375 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 14:26

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

Are you not telling your team it's over 7 games in if you are waiving Campbell to call up an AHL goalie?

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826378 is a reply to message #826377 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 14:30

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:26

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

Are you not telling your team it's over 7 games in if you are waiving Campbell to call up an AHL goalie?

Depends if the team believe Campbell is better than an AHL goalie.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826379 is a reply to message #826378 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 14:40

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:26

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

Are you not telling your team it's over 7 games in if you are waiving Campbell to call up an AHL goalie?

Depends if the team believe Campbell is better than an AHL goalie.

Put Campbell in front of a properly coached and appropriately skilled defense, and he’ll be fine. Hasek would look like crap in front of these boobs.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826380 is a reply to message #826379 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 14:52

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:40

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:26

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

Are you not telling your team it's over 7 games in if you are waiving Campbell to call up an AHL goalie?

Depends if the team believe Campbell is better than an AHL goalie.

Put Campbell in front of a properly coached and appropriately skilled defense, and he’ll be fine. Hasek would look like crap in front of these boobs.

That's the outsider perspective. I doubt the coaches a defensemen they're a bunch of boobs who aren't appropriately skilled or coached.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826386 is a reply to message #826380 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 15:52

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:52

Skoobz wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:40

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:26

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

Are you not telling your team it's over 7 games in if you are waiving Campbell to call up an AHL goalie?

Depends if the team believe Campbell is better than an AHL goalie.

Put Campbell in front of a properly coached and appropriately skilled defense, and he’ll be fine. Hasek would look like crap in front of these boobs.

That's the outsider perspective. I doubt the coaches a defensemen they're a bunch of boobs who aren't appropriately skilled or coached.

It’s also demonstrably untrue. As Wyshynski pointed out in the tweet I quoted yesterday, the Oilers are 11th overall in giving up high danger chances. They could certainly be better, but they’re far from awful at it - they’re in the top half of the league!

However, their save percentages on high danger chances are comically low. Worst in the league by TEN PERCENTAGE POINTS!!! The goalies aren’t the only issue with the team. When you lose 3-0, there’s blame to go around. But Skinner and Campbell are a huge part of the problem. The team just can’t get a save.

I’d even argue that the fact they can’t stop high danger chances impacts fans perception of the defence. It seems like there is a lot more of them when the puck is in the back of the net 40% of the time.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826388 is a reply to message #826386 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 21:39

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 258
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

If we replaced Woodcroft, I’d be fine with Gallant.
Not saying I want to as I believe he made this team better and we always fall apart.
They’re not hungry enough. I’d want Holland gone over Woody

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826384 is a reply to message #826379 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 15:43

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:40

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 14:26

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 13:58

Bring up Rodrigue. send Campbell to the minors... maybe someone takes him off the waiver wire!

Are you not telling your team it's over 7 games in if you are waiving Campbell to call up an AHL goalie?

Depends if the team believe Campbell is better than an AHL goalie.

Put Campbell in front of a properly coached and appropriately skilled defense, and he’ll be fine. Hasek would look like crap in front of these boobs.

I tend to agree with you. He's not a high end goalie but I'd expect him to be able to play to his career average if the defense in front of him wasn't as big of a gong show as it is right now.

As an example, what's Campbell supposed to do on the first goal against the Wild? He has to turn towards the guy with the puck. Puck comes across the ice, Rossi is allowed to stand there untouched by Bouchard to do about as easy of a tip as it gets.

How many wide open looks do guys get in the slot between the hash marks? Another example. Bouchard in the corner to get the puck with time and space. Somehow he's a wizard in the Ozone but in the dzone, he handles the puck like a live grenade. He loses control, goes to a Wild player who fires out the pass in front to a wide open guy and boom it's in the net. How's he supposed to stop that?

[Updated on: Fri, 27 October 2023 16:11]

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826342 is a reply to message #826336 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 22:01

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

If Woody is let go, I hope we can somehow force him to convincingly say "Paul's on it" on the way out.

Holland should not be allowed to hire another coach though. He has to go first. Get Paul on it.

Small silver lining. If we really bomb, we can dump salary to make room for Brown's bonus to only count on this years cap

[Updated on: Thu, 26 October 2023 22:10]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826343 is a reply to message #826342 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 22:19

nullterm
Messages: 1034
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 21:01

Holland needs to go just based on the fact we're cap crunched and have done nothing to improve. Just on a business level.

Woody should also be gone by way of new GM means new coach.

If a company is spending to their max budget and not making money... the owner needs to make changes.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826344 is a reply to message #826343 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 22:21

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 22:19

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 21:01

That's why they brought in Coffey. From coaching his kids atom team, to a weekly phone call with our AHL D to help them along, to whatever the heck he was doing last year just hanging around collecting a salary, to Katz's #2 man in the OEG. He has the experience needed to turn this ship around.

[Updated on: Thu, 26 October 2023 22:22]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826348 is a reply to message #826336 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 23:18

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Positive take; I think Bouchard had a decent game in his new sheltered role. There will always be moments in his defensive game where he makes a mistake but tonight they were limited and not often disastrous.
I also thought Broberg played well and Ekholm looked more like himself but still has a ways to go.
Without Skinner this was a much worse looking score.

Nurse, on the other hand is still struggling mightily.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826349 is a reply to message #826348 ]	Thu, 26 October 2023 23:41

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 26 October 2023 23:18

Just put Nurse and Bouch on the third pair and we're golden

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826350 is a reply to message #826349 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 05:46

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Whatever - we’re still better than the Sharks.

I’m not even mad. Apathy has started to set in, and I know I’m not the only one.

At best, we’ll finish October with 2 wins, but most likely just the 1. On a capped out team with 2 of the best players in the world in their primes…

On the bright side, we got our second .900+ performance of the year. So that’s good right?

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826351 is a reply to message #826350 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 06:22

tardigrade81
Messages: 2266
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Rock bottom

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826390 is a reply to message #826351 ]	Sat, 28 October 2023 13:45

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

tardigrade81 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:22

Rock bottom

Hopefully.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826392 is a reply to message #826390 ]	Sat, 28 October 2023 18:04

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 28 October 2023 13:45

tardigrade81 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:22

Rock bottom

Hopefully.

Ha ha...it does seem like tempting fate to say "rock bottom" as an Oilers fan...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826394 is a reply to message #826392 ]	Sun, 29 October 2023 00:48

nullterm
Messages: 1034
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Sat, 28 October 2023 17:04

K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 28 October 2023 13:45

tardigrade81 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:22

Rock bottom

Hopefully.

Ha ha...it does seem like tempting fate to say "rock bottom" as an Oilers fan...

If the Oilers have proven anything since ‘06 it’s being able to find a level below where you think the lowest limit is.

They should work with physicists on determining absolute zero instead of hockey, turn the negative into a positive for humanity.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826352 is a reply to message #826336 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 06:37

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 258
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

I did not expect everyone to be calling for Woodys head.
He’s been a great coach here, I believe this is something with the players.
We have had how many coaches and this happens over and over.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826353 is a reply to message #826352 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 08:40

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:37

I did not expect everyone to be calling for Woodys head.
He’s been a great coach here, I believe this is something with the players.
We have had how many coaches and this happens over and over.

My faith in Woody is pretty low now. He's made super obvious mistakes at a level we last saw with Dallas Eakins. Our man on man defensive system got exposed multiple times over multiple games. It was to a point where one of the Vegas players actually said exactly what we were doing, and proceeded to expose it again right after his interview. And then to go from that, to bragging to media that we've changed to another rigid defensive system that now has us looking like we're playing the PK 5v5 in our zone. This is clownish stuff. It's embarrassing and Woody has to take blame for a good chunk of it. His goalie handling in the playoffs was poor as well.

Starting to feel like we have a motivational speaker as a coach. The energy that comes from that wears off very quickly, especially if the winning stops.

The players don't help either for sure. We may just be bad at everything here. GM hiring, Coach hiring, roster construction. Kinda makes sense for everything below the GM to be bad if the GM is bad.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826356 is a reply to message #826353 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 09:37

HamBlaster
Messages: 989
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

Exactly. My sentiments exactly.

Woody is a youngish coach and is getting exposed for having pretty weak sauce defensive systems in place. This "new zone defensive scheme" is pretty terrible.

He might pay the price for this start.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826361 is a reply to message #826356 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 10:30

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Coaching might be one of the problems but another problem I am seeing is a shocking lack of compete and intensity by just about the whole team. They talked so big about being pissed off by last year, where's the fire?

If you go down the list of forwards who were here last year and supposedly mad, it's pretty hard to pick out very many who have come out looking like they are on a mission.

I think Foegele has been pretty good. Hyman has been OK. Leon, not too bad. After that though, pretty hard to pick out who's been really going.

I thought even McD came out pretty quiet if I compared to how he did last year being the scoring machine he was.
McLeod talked about being more assertive, driving the net and using his body. It was supposed to be a focus of his in the offseason. Where is it?
Nuge other than the Preds game has been invisible mostly.
Kane other than a few spurts isn't hitting guys, stirring the pot, smack talking, doing what he does. He's not shooting much.
Holloway looks like he's doing things because he skates fast but I'd like to see him taking the puck to the goal. When you are well over 200 lbs and skate like that, you'd be tough to stop if you took it hard to the goal frequently.
Brown I am more lenient just because he's coming off an injury and new to the team and he hasn't been terrible but it's getting to put up or shut up time.
Ryan & Janmark. I don't mind then on the team but I think they are kind of the same player in how they play and their role. You probably don't need both.
Erne - he's a replaceable guy and for me, if he's not running around then what are you doing here.

Defense.
Nurse I think has been decent at times but at the same time, he said it last night. Look in the mirror dude. Less is more. I think he needs to stop trying to be offensive. I am betting he presses for offense to try and justify the contract because if he scored more, it wouldn't look as bad. On the Oilers, he's not ever scoring more because he doesn't get PP time. So don't worry about scoring. Just defend. At his size, with his speed, no reason he can't be an elite defender if he focuses on it.
Ceci has his limitations but I have thought he's looked pretty good and similar to how he was the first year.
Ekholm I think is getting better, missing camp didn't help but I think the chaos of his partner is really hurting him.
Bouchard. What the hell man? I thought he was really good the last 20 and in the playoffs. I don't expect him to be elite defensively but I thought the switch flipped to where he was going to be adequate. He's worse and I don't think it's the system. He goes into the corner and loses lots of puck battles, that's not the system. Not covering a guy in front has nothing to do with the system. Doing awful, ill times pinches is not the system.
Kulak. How can a dman look so good in the playoffs and get be the opposite now?
Broberg. He needs to play more but at the same time, I can see why it's hard to play him more. One shift he looks great, the next he looks brutal. The highs and lows with this guy are extreme. He can't even line change properly.
Desharnais. You are a big, nasty, physical dman. Your job is to clear the front of the net, play on the PK and make life miserable for the other team when you play. You aren't there to score points or be a puck mover. 4 hits in 5 games. What the hell man? Do your job.

In general, the whole team flat out needs to compete way more. A harder working team will beat a more skilled team most times and we have seen it. Go ahead and change the dzone to whatever the hell fans want, won't do a damn thing if this team from top to bottom doesn't flat out compete way, way harder. Pretty much ever player on the team has WAY more to give and they know it.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826366 is a reply to message #826352 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 11:11

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:37

I did not expect everyone to be calling for Woodys head.
He’s been a great coach here, I believe this is something with the players.
We have had how many coaches and this happens over and over.

I’d willing to see how well Woody could do as coach if he had a GM who wasn’t a complete has-been.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826368 is a reply to message #826366 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 11:50

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 11:11

NCREDiBLE wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:37

I did not expect everyone to be calling for Woodys head.
He’s been a great coach here, I believe this is something with the players.
We have had how many coaches and this happens over and over.

I’d willing to see how well Woody could do as coach if he had a GM who wasn’t a complete has-been.

I am all for changing out whoever to get this team going. So if firing Holland is the move, go ahead, do it. The question I would have is will it do anything because as right now I see a ton of guys who flat out aren't playing well and not competing and it it's not just Brown or guys he's resigned like Ryan or Janmark. It's guys who everyone would identify as being key Oilers.

Guys like Nuge, McLeod, Bouchard, go down the list. Lots of people were pissed there wasn't more money to give more to McLeod and Bouchard as an example. Most fans think Bouchard is their best dman and he should be on the top pairing. He's got some points, great but once the puck crosses the red line, look out. When the puck goes into the corner, he ain't coming out with it very often and he's not covering a guy in front of the net. McLeod same thing. He's got zero points, barely any shots and when the puck gets dump in, don't expect him to get it.

I'm not mentioning those 2 to make them my new "whipping boys". I am singling them out because they to every fan were identified as key players, the Oilers 100% had to keep, most see them playing critical roles, most want them to play more, most felt the Oilers should have found a way to sign them up for way longer to way more money and so far, they have not played well at all.

So other than making people feel better because they are looking for blood right now, what does firing Holland right now do to get McLeod to go to the freaking net. Something that has been a knock of his since he was drafted, something he was asked to work when he was in junior and the AHL and the NHL. Something he said last year, he was going to focus on doing better and so far, nothing has change.

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826369 is a reply to message #826368 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 11:53

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 11:50

Ragnarok73 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 11:11

NCREDiBLE wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:37

I did not expect everyone to be calling for Woodys head.
He’s been a great coach here, I believe this is something with the players.
We have had how many coaches and this happens over and over.

I’d willing to see how well Woody could do as coach if he had a GM who wasn’t a complete has-been.

Reason to fire Holland now would be to not let him make more bad moves that tank things for the next GM. He's already messed the next guy over with Brown's bonus that wipes out our cap increase next year (his bonus could actually be more than the increase if there is a serious recession).

We saw what Chia did when he was panicking his last season. That was an absolute disaster. Kenney can't really be trusted to fix anything at this point, so keeping is far more risky IMO, letting him try to fix his own mess with zero cap space.

[Updated on: Fri, 27 October 2023 11:55]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Rangers @ Edmonton (Game #7) [message #826372 is a reply to message #826369 ]	Fri, 27 October 2023 12:37

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 11:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 11:50

Ragnarok73 wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 11:11

NCREDiBLE wrote on Fri, 27 October 2023 06:37

I did not expect everyone to be calling for Woodys head.
He’s been a great coach here, I believe this is something with the players.
We have had how many coaches and this happens over and over.

I’d willing to see how well Woody could do as coach if he had a GM who wasn’t a complete has-been.

Well if what you say is true about worrying that Holland will make a move that will screw the next guy, in my opinion, that would imply that he has complete autonomy over anything and can do whatever he wants without Jackson or anyone one else doing a thing. I just don't buy that. This has nothing to do with siding with Holland. I just don't buy Jackson quit his job as a super agent to be the Pres of the Oilers so he could sit in his office with Katz drinking scotch and smoking cigars not having a say in what Holland does. I just don't believe that's why he is here or what he is all about. I doubt Jackson doesn't have a say in what happens moving forward because he will be here, he might take over the GM's job for all we know.

They were paying 6.1 mill to get 15 goals, 39 pts from Yamo and JP. All Brown has to do is improve on those numbers and they are getting more value for considerably less money. I am not prepared to write off Brown as a bust 7 games in. It usually takes players new to a team time to adjust makes it harder when you are coming off a major injury.

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