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 CrusaderPi
Messages: 7903
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Thu, 08 February 2024 13:38 |
Now we can move on to the individuals and their own legal issues. I'm sad to say, I am not confident of any convictions. They're all going to be well-represented by very good lawyers, and sexual assaults are very difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. In the absence of convictions, it won't surprise me at all if these players all get NHL jobs again relatively quickly depressing as that is. I mean, if an absolute borderline NHLer in Jake Virtanen gets a try-out, then hard to see Carter Hart not getting a contract if he's available to play.
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Reasonable doubt, not beyond a shadow of a doubt, is a very important part of our justice system. As someone who 'gets' to represent people that are in trouble it's hard to express how disheartening the retreat from assumed innocence is and how many people object to people even defending themselves.
If the players are found not guilty there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to play again. I do understand why people would have a somewhat jaded view of justice in Canada. It is failing everyone right now. Still, if we're not going to leap to vigilantism and (further into) extrajudicial punishment innocent until proven guilty is a good concept to hold.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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Steve
Messages: 119
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa
No Cups
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It’s always going to be difficult to convict based on one eye witness account. Witnesses, and in this case also the victim, will get torn to shreds on the stand. She is not going to have a perfect recollection.
The prosecution will need physical evidence. We don’t know the extent of what they have yet.
Whether they are convicted or not, the court of public opinion will make its own verdict. I don’t anybody who still thinks OJ was innocent.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
- Calvin
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kungpaobenji27
Messages: 340
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas
No Cups
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| Steve wrote on Thu, 08 February 2024 17:15 |
It’s always going to be difficult to convict based on one eye witness account. Witnesses, and in this case also the victim, will get torn to shreds on the stand. She is not going to have a perfect recollection.
The prosecution will need physical evidence. We don’t know the extent of what they have yet.
Whether they are convicted or not, the court of public opinion will make its own verdict. I don’t anybody who still thinks OJ was innocent.
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There ya go....OJ is the perfect example in this case. Found not guilty...but the general public presumed he was also NOT innocent as the dude never got to show his face in any high profile settings as well.
Is this going to be one of these cases where the outcome is solely going to be determined by a judge or combination of judge/jury?
My cousins have told me stories about people in homeless camps around the Vancouver area attacking peaceful residents with weapons....only to just let back on the street asap. Country doesn't seem to be very tough on crime these days.
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inverno76
Messages: 2380
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
2 Cups
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| kungpaobenji27 wrote on Thu, 08 February 2024 17:17 |
| Steve wrote on Thu, 08 February 2024 17:15 |
It’s always going to be difficult to convict based on one eye witness account. Witnesses, and in this case also the victim, will get torn to shreds on the stand. She is not going to have a perfect recollection.
The prosecution will need physical evidence. We don’t know the extent of what they have yet.
Whether they are convicted or not, the court of public opinion will make its own verdict. I don’t anybody who still thinks OJ was innocent.
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There ya go....OJ is the perfect example in this case. Found not guilty...but the general public presumed he was also NOT innocent as the dude never got to show his face in any high profile settings as well.
Is this going to be one of these cases where the outcome is solely going to be determined by a judge or combination of judge/jury?
My cousins have told me stories about people in homeless camps around the Vancouver area attacking peaceful residents with weapons....only to just let back on the street asap. Country doesn't seem to be very tough on crime these days.
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Prisons are overloaded and filled beyond capacity. Warehousing people who commit crimes is not the answer. People being terrorized or assaulted is not right either.
Unfortunately, the answer is complicated and I believe it involves social programs in the community and in the school systems. Jails are not designed to rehabilitate people. If you have worked in the system you could see how flawed it is and how it has next to zero positive outcomes. I believe the key is to assist vulnerable people when they are young and provide them with the supports that they are lacking.
Who pays for it? How do you make people utilize these resources?
... and back to sports. We have enough problematic players trying to rebrand their images on the team right now. As much as I would love to have a Carter Hart quality goaltender, he needs to be someone else's problem.
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 789
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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We could buy an island and just send them all there... run free criminals!
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7903
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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| Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 09 February 2024 09:39 |
We could buy an island and just send them all there... run free criminals!
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We tried that. They became an oddly fun sports powerhouse with a lusty love for a certain 'c' word.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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oilfan94
Messages: 448
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA
No Cups
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| CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 February 2024 11:50 |
| Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 09 February 2024 09:39 |
We could buy an island and just send them all there... run free criminals!
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We tried that. They became an oddly fun sports powerhouse with a lusty love for a certain 'c' word.
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So you're saying it worked?
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 789
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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They do produce some great stand-up comics.
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Adam
Messages: 7291
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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Kevin Lowe slamming Rick Westhead on the internet now as Westhead is publishing a book on some of the issues with hockey culture:
This seems a questionable decision from Lowe. Here's the quote from Kyte that he's replying to:
“Hopefully the book is balanced and not just a sensational view of what might be wrong with the perceived culture. In my short experience as a guest columnist I learned quickly that newspapers/media aren’t in the business of selling the news/stories, they are in the business of selling newspapers/clicks/views. Sensationalism and sadly, focusing on the negative, sells. The game/culture can certainly improve but it also has many, many positives so I hope these aspects get an equal word count. I look forward to finding out.”
Not nearly as bad, although still I don't know that this is an issue that needs a "both sides" element to it. There have been a bunch of scandals of hockey players behaving badly, and it's not just individuals, but group bad behaviour. I think it's reasonable to ask what is going on and what can be improved.
Lowe's point about some sensitivity training in junior is a step forward, no doubt, but his head-in-the-sand "our game is fine" approach is problematic. It's really just a step away from "boys will be boys." His reference about "bleeding hearts" is even worse. We're talking about sexual assault among other issues here. That should not be a bleeding hearts type issue, but rather one that everyone wants to out of the sport.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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