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 No more Haaaaaas [message #787512]
Thu, 10 June 2021 10:40 Go to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /gaetan-haas-bids-adieu-to-nhl-dream-signs-five-year-deal-ba ck-in-switzerland

I liked Haaaaaas' speed. didn't score much though.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787513 is a reply to message #787512 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 10:40

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /gaetan-haas-bids-adieu-to-nhl-dream-signs-five-year-deal-ba ck-in-switzerland

I liked Haaaaaas' speed. didn't score much though.


Perfect example of an Oilers depth player. Skated, looked like he was working hard, really looked good sometimes, accomplished nothing ever and got caved in by the numbers.

So long Haas.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787515 is a reply to message #787513 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 10:52

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 10:40

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /gaetan-haas-bids-adieu-to-nhl-dream-signs-five-year-deal-ba ck-in-switzerland

I liked Haaaaaas' speed. didn't score much though.


Perfect example of an Oilers depth player. Skated, looked like he was working hard, really looked good sometimes, accomplished nothing ever and got caved in by the numbers.

So long Haas.


Epic chin though. Me Myself and Irene tier.

Assume we offered him a 2 year deal and he decided to move on. Ah well.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787521 is a reply to message #787515 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I liked a lot of what Haas could do as a bottom 6 forward, just couldn't score enough. Haas and Nygard definitely left no doubt they are never coming back to the NHL with the length of their deals.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787523 is a reply to message #787512 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Best Haas moment by a mile.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtR2jI2VkAAPPWy?format=jpg&name=900x900

Will miss you rockstar!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787549 is a reply to message #787523 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 10:22

Best Haas moment by a mile.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtR2jI2VkAAPPWy?format=jpg&name=900x900

Will miss you rockstar!


Big Haaaaaas !!
Probably got sick of the 2 years of quarantines..

He gave his all, had speed, forechecked like a demon, one of few forwards that would finish a check.. hands of reinforced concrete.. au revoir mon ami! :(

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787559 is a reply to message #787521 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 11:21

I liked a lot of what Haas could do as a bottom 6 forward, just couldn't score enough. Haas and Nygard definitely left no doubt they are never coming back to the NHL with the length of their deals.


Hilarious as always. Keep the entertainment coming RD, keeps these boards lively during the boring parts of the offseason.

You could take Haas' name out of your post and put in Shore and it would be just as true.

Has there ever been a player leave that you thought was a loss?
Has there ever been a player stay that you thought was a mistake.

As always, I admire your dedication to supporting all things in Oiler colors but it is baffling how you can think this is just fine and signing Shore is a good move.

Haas was not good but he was better than Shore.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787560 is a reply to message #787523 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 10 June 2021 11:22

Best Haas moment by a mile.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtR2jI2VkAAPPWy?format=jpg&name=900x900

Will miss you rockstar!


True story.

Outside of having a fun name and the odd moment like this pic he is one of the JAG's who should be easily upgradable.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787617 is a reply to message #787560 ]
Fri, 11 June 2021 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.

[Updated on: Fri, 11 June 2021 10:56]

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787618 is a reply to message #787617 ]
Fri, 11 June 2021 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 10:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.



This is just highlighting our horrendous drafting or lack of drafting for so many years. The bottom 6 should be filled with young guys pushing for bigger roles on the team, instead we get retreads, mysterious undrafted European hopefuls and bums. The FA pool should be supplementing holes, instead we are not even doing the reverse. I have no idea how McLeod got an opportunity? Our bottom 6 is a dog's breakfast. Marody and Benson deserve a chance. They can't be worse than what we have employed to date. Crap, I would give Lavoie a shot around Christmas if he was excelling in the AHL.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787620 is a reply to message #787618 ]
Fri, 11 June 2021 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 10:53


This is just highlighting our horrendous drafting or lack of drafting for so many years. The bottom 6 should be filled with young guys pushing for bigger roles on the team, instead we get retreads, mysterious undrafted European hopefuls and bums. The FA pool should be supplementing holes, instead we are not even doing the reverse. I have no idea how McLeod got an opportunity? Our bottom 6 is a dog's breakfast. Marody and Benson deserve a chance. They can't be worse than what we have employed to date. Crap, I would give Lavoie a shot around Christmas if he was excelling in the AHL.


Agreed. And I think it hasn't been helped by bleeding talent at the top end either. Hall for Larsson and the Eberle trade tree means that a guy like Yamamoto gets elevated into the top 6 when he's realistically not quite there yet. Get him to use his speed and tenacity to forecheck against 3rd liners and bottom pair defencemen and teach him how to PK and you've got a pretty valuable asset that isn't costing you a lot. Instead you're tasked with trying to spend free-agent dollars to fill that role at probably double the cost.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787622 is a reply to message #787617 ]
Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787628 is a reply to message #787622 ]
Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787632 is a reply to message #787628 ]
Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787633 is a reply to message #787632 ]
Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC is currently offline welcometotheOC
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787634 is a reply to message #787633 ]
Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787635 is a reply to message #787634 ]
Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC is currently offline welcometotheOC
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Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787643 is a reply to message #787628 ]
Sat, 12 June 2021 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787646 is a reply to message #787643 ]
Sun, 13 June 2021 07:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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PlusOne wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 23:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.



On the other hand, it’s a divisional rival (for this year) - hard to begrudge a team trying to improve themselves to the detriment of their rival. I thought it was a missed opportunity that 6 teams just let that go because of Spezza’s comment.


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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787649 is a reply to message #787646 ]
Sun, 13 June 2021 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Mike wrote on Sun, 13 June 2021 06:44



On the other hand, it’s a divisional rival (for this year) - hard to begrudge a team trying to improve themselves to the detriment of their rival. I thought it was a missed opportunity that 6 teams just let that go because of Spezza’s comment.



Agree, If all teams accommodated a vet player's desire to stay put with the team they are on after being put on waivers, then every team would ask their waivees to make a public statement, and the waiver process would become a mockery If you're a vet on a winning team, put on waivers, and the first team up to select is a rebuilding bottom feeder, say Buffalo,a lot of vet players would opt to say "I'll retire" if permitted, I see no problem in calling the player's, and waiver team's bluff if you can legitimately use the player, if the player really doesn't want to move then he should have included a NM clause in his contract.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787650 is a reply to message #787643 ]
Sun, 13 June 2021 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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PlusOne wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 20:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.


i don't put a lot of stock in "clout"

Having a poisonous corporate atmosphere (Like OEG), where cronyism and nepotism rule the day, is much more likely to damage your overall reputation than making an outside the box, but inside the rules, decision in order to close the gap with a team in your division.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787653 is a reply to message #787649 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 13 June 2021 13:19

Mike wrote on Sun, 13 June 2021 06:44



On the other hand, it’s a divisional rival (for this year) - hard to begrudge a team trying to improve themselves to the detriment of their rival. I thought it was a missed opportunity that 6 teams just let that go because of Spezza’s comment.



Agree, If all teams accommodated a vet player's desire to stay put with the team they are on after being put on waivers, then every team would ask their waivees to make a public statement, and the waiver process would become a mockery If you're a vet on a winning team, put on waivers, and the first team up to select is a rebuilding bottom feeder, say Buffalo,a lot of vet players would opt to say "I'll retire" if permitted, I see no problem in calling the player's, and waiver team's bluff if you can legitimately use the player, if the player really doesn't want to move then he should have included a NM clause in his contract.



I believe there was a loophole in the CBA that allowed a 35+ player to retire and come back as an UFA. At least I do not think I dreamt this, but I cannot find the language in the CBA.

Teams may have considered there was no reason to pick up Spezza as he would have followed through on his retirement and just re-signed another league minimum deal with the Leafs.

The retirement announcement was just a warning shot telling teams to stay away.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 June 2021 23:23]

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787656 is a reply to message #787646 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Mike wrote on Sun, 13 June 2021 07:44

PlusOne wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 23:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.



On the other hand, it’s a divisional rival (for this year) - hard to begrudge a team trying to improve themselves to the detriment of their rival. I thought it was a missed opportunity that 6 teams just let that go because of Spezza’s comment.



Totally fair point. I have no real idea the effect it would have. From what we hear Spezza is respected and signed there with the intention of playing there. Maybe right from the start it was retire or play for the Leafs.
On the other hand if that was his demand he could have asked for a no move clause.
Weird situation, but I can see why the Oilers, or any other team, didnt bother claiming him.


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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787657 is a reply to message #787650 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 13 June 2021 14:23

PlusOne wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 20:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.


i don't put a lot of stock in "clout"

Having a poisonous corporate atmosphere (Like OEG), where cronyism and nepotism rule the day, is much more likely to damage your overall reputation than making an outside the box, but inside the rules, decision in order to close the gap with a team in your division.


True story. Unfortunately, in addition to poor management the Oilers also have a history of players being unhappy with how the org treated them. Hypothetically, if players saw picking up Spezza as a jerk move, it would just be one more reason why players wouldnt want to play for them.


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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787658 is a reply to message #787635 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11

Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴


If people are over 35 and you retire, then the team isn't on the hook. You'll remember Pronger was a dispute because he was 34 when he signed his contract but 35 when it kicked in.

So you get him and he retires and then he comes off the cap, so no harm no foul other than screwing up things for Toronto.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787661 is a reply to message #787643 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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PlusOne wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 20:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.



I disagree with this. The Oilers responsibility is to make their own team better, so if there's an opportunity to do so, then they should. Claiming him would give us an opportunity to convince him that there are good reasons to join the team and not retire. And if he does, well, too bad for the Leafs.

To respond to someone else, there is definitely NOT a clause allowing people to retire then immediately unretire and sign again with someone else. If there was, we'd see it happening a lot more often with old players on bad teams.

The Oilers did something like this in the Sather era. Glenn Anderson decided partway in to a season that he wanted to come back for one more year. He signed with Vancouver and wanted to play there, but they had to waive him to activate him. He had a bunch of tough words about it as he went on waivers threatening not to report if he got claimed by anyone else, but Sather claimed him anyhow. Sather then got him to show up - even though he was a little grouchy about it. He played 17 games for the Oilers, mostly playing with Weight and Ciger. Sather let him leave near the trade deadline, waiving him so that he ended up with St. Louis for their playoff run as the Oilers weren't going to make it. Anderson never got to play for the Canucks, the Oilers got a player who helped them and some veteran leadership for a couple of their young guys. They prevented a divisional rival from getting a helpful player. In the end, they got David Roberts from the Blues for making Anderson available too.

No player wants to get traded or claimed on waivers. I don't think you can worry about hurting people's feelings though with that sort of thing.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787662 is a reply to message #787658 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:02

welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11

Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴


If people are over 35 and you retire, then the team isn't on the hook. You'll remember Pronger was a dispute because he was 34 when he signed his contract but 35 when it kicked in.

So you get him and he retires and then he comes off the cap, so no harm no foul other than screwing up things for Toronto.


Thought it was the opposite. A 35+ deal is on your cap no matter what.

That was to stop teams from giving backdiving multi-year deals to old players to reduce cap when everyone would know the player would just retire before the contract was over.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787663 is a reply to message #787661 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The Leafs have been able to bring in a few vets who signed for the league minimum because they were Leafs fans as kids and it was their dream to play for them and for the most part, they were good signing as they were able to squeeze out whatever last drops of decent hockey was left in their bodies.

Tavares doesn't count in what I said but he was a guy who had the PJ's as a kid and supposedly turned down more money in season AAV to sign with the Leafs.

Spezza (38) has signed 2 1 yr 700K deals to play for the Leafs as a Toronto kid. first year 9 goals 25 pts in 58 games. This past season 10 goals, 30 pts 54 games. Both years that's pretty good bottom 6 production when you factor in the contract, it's great production.

Thornton (41) London kid. Signed 1 yr 700k. Not as good as Spezza production wise with 5 goals, 20 in 44 games. But there was times he was on their top line.

So are their any vets who were Oilers fans they could sign for basically nothing that fills in a role, maybe a bigger body that Ennis?

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787669 is a reply to message #787663 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:46

The Leafs have been able to bring in a few vets who signed for the league minimum because they were Leafs fans as kids and it was their dream to play for them and for the most part, they were good signing as they were able to squeeze out whatever last drops of decent hockey was left in their bodies.

Tavares doesn't count in what I said but he was a guy who had the PJ's as a kid and supposedly turned down more money in season AAV to sign with the Leafs.

Spezza (38) has signed 2 1 yr 700K deals to play for the Leafs as a Toronto kid. first year 9 goals 25 pts in 58 games. This past season 10 goals, 30 pts 54 games. Both years that's pretty good bottom 6 production when you factor in the contract, it's great production.

Thornton (41) London kid. Signed 1 yr 700k. Not as good as Spezza production wise with 5 goals, 20 in 44 games. But there was times he was on their top line.

So are their any vets who were Oilers fans they could sign for basically nothing that fills in a role, maybe a bigger body that Ennis?


I don't think someone needs to have grown up an Oilers fan to sign for a cheap deal at the end of their career.

The number of times you see these excuses for poor Oilers management on twitter is incredible. I do expect the Oilers media to come up with lots of excuses for their buddies mismanaging the team, but why do so many Oilers fans do it? It must be Stockholm Syndrome or something. Makes me annoyed whenever I see something like that - "Edmonton's just not a place players want to come..." "Most players grew up in Ontario..." "There's so much happening in New York!" "Players just want to live on the beach in relative anonymity in LA or Florida..."

It's all excuses. We have the best player in the world, and another guy who's top five. That should be a hell of a sales pitch to anyone. I sure hope the management doesn't have this same stupid inferiority complex and isn't asking players because they assume they wouldn't come here. Corey Perry didn't grow up in Montreal and yet he signed with the Habs. It's management's job to find players, not overpay and convince them to come to Edmonton. The excuses for why they don't are just sickening.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787673 is a reply to message #787669 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 11:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:46

The Leafs have been able to bring in a few vets who signed for the league minimum because they were Leafs fans as kids and it was their dream to play for them and for the most part, they were good signing as they were able to squeeze out whatever last drops of decent hockey was left in their bodies.

Tavares doesn't count in what I said but he was a guy who had the PJ's as a kid and supposedly turned down more money in season AAV to sign with the Leafs.

Spezza (38) has signed 2 1 yr 700K deals to play for the Leafs as a Toronto kid. first year 9 goals 25 pts in 58 games. This past season 10 goals, 30 pts 54 games. Both years that's pretty good bottom 6 production when you factor in the contract, it's great production.

Thornton (41) London kid. Signed 1 yr 700k. Not as good as Spezza production wise with 5 goals, 20 in 44 games. But there was times he was on their top line.

So are their any vets who were Oilers fans they could sign for basically nothing that fills in a role, maybe a bigger body that Ennis?


I don't think someone needs to have grown up an Oilers fan to sign for a cheap deal at the end of their career.

The number of times you see these excuses for poor Oilers management on twitter is incredible. I do expect the Oilers media to come up with lots of excuses for their buddies mismanaging the team, but why do so many Oilers fans do it? It must be Stockholm Syndrome or something. Makes me annoyed whenever I see something like that - "Edmonton's just not a place players want to come..." "Most players grew up in Ontario..." "There's so much happening in New York!" "Players just want to live on the beach in relative anonymity in LA or Florida..."

It's all excuses. We have the best player in the world, and another guy who's top five. That should be a hell of a sales pitch to anyone. I sure hope the management doesn't have this same stupid inferiority complex and isn't asking players because they assume they wouldn't come here. Corey Perry didn't grow up in Montreal and yet he signed with the Habs. It's management's job to find players, not overpay and convince them to come to Edmonton. The excuses for why they don't are just sickening.

I am not saying it 100% has to be guys who grew up Oilers fans, I was just curious if there was some because being a Leafs fan did play a factor in them willing to come for cheaper. At the end of the day, the importance is finding affordable guys that can fill a role.

Is there ever a time you don't turn every single post into another rant about why Oilers management sucks? It wouldn't surprise me if you could go into every thread on this site and see Adam going off on a rant about why they suck. I ask a question about who might be good vets to target and another rant.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787677 is a reply to message #787673 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 11:36


I am not saying it 100% has to be guys who grew up Oilers fans, I was just curious if there was some because being a Leafs fan did play a factor in them willing to come for cheaper. At the end of the day, the importance is finding affordable guys that can fill a role.

Is there ever a time you don't turn every single post into another rant about why Oilers management sucks? It wouldn't surprise me if you could go into every thread on this site and see Adam going off on a rant about why they suck. I ask a question about who might be good vets to target and another rant.


Hey we can't all be blindly loyal fanboys with a never-ending fountain of enthusiasm for losing! What fun would that be?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787687 is a reply to message #787677 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 11:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 11:36


I am not saying it 100% has to be guys who grew up Oilers fans, I was just curious if there was some because being a Leafs fan did play a factor in them willing to come for cheaper. At the end of the day, the importance is finding affordable guys that can fill a role.

Is there ever a time you don't turn every single post into another rant about why Oilers management sucks? It wouldn't surprise me if you could go into every thread on this site and see Adam going off on a rant about why they suck. I ask a question about who might be good vets to target and another rant.


Hey we can't all be blindly loyal fanboys with a never-ending fountain of enthusiasm for losing! What fun would that be?

I am not a blindly loyal fanboy. But I sometimes like to actually have a discussion about the team, who they should keep, who they should trade, who'd be a good target to sign vs the 10,000th rant from fans who like to railroad every conversation about why the GM for you name the year sucks.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787690 is a reply to message #787687 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 13:15

Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 11:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 11:36


I am not saying it 100% has to be guys who grew up Oilers fans, I was just curious if there was some because being a Leafs fan did play a factor in them willing to come for cheaper. At the end of the day, the importance is finding affordable guys that can fill a role.

Is there ever a time you don't turn every single post into another rant about why Oilers management sucks? It wouldn't surprise me if you could go into every thread on this site and see Adam going off on a rant about why they suck. I ask a question about who might be good vets to target and another rant.


Hey we can't all be blindly loyal fanboys with a never-ending fountain of enthusiasm for losing! What fun would that be?

I am not a blindly loyal fanboy. But I sometimes like to actually have a discussion about the team, who they should keep, who they should trade, who'd be a good target to sign vs the 10,000th rant from fans who like to railroad every conversation about why the GM for you name the year sucks.


Maybe we need a scoreboard;
# of times Adam complains about management VS # of times RDOF complains about Adam VS RDOF posts that make PlusOne laugh at how ludicrous or hypocritical they are.

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787692 is a reply to message #787661 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:35

PlusOne wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 20:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.



I disagree with this. The Oilers responsibility is to make their own team better, so if there's an opportunity to do so, then they should. Claiming him would give us an opportunity to convince him that there are good reasons to join the team and not retire. And if he does, well, too bad for the Leafs.

To respond to someone else, there is definitely NOT a clause allowing people to retire then immediately unretire and sign again with someone else. If there was, we'd see it happening a lot more often with old players on bad teams.

The Oilers did something like this in the Sather era. Glenn Anderson decided partway in to a season that he wanted to come back for one more year. He signed with Vancouver and wanted to play there, but they had to waive him to activate him. He had a bunch of tough words about it as he went on waivers threatening not to report if he got claimed by anyone else, but Sather claimed him anyhow. Sather then got him to show up - even though he was a little grouchy about it. He played 17 games for the Oilers, mostly playing with Weight and Ciger. Sather let him leave near the trade deadline, waiving him so that he ended up with St. Louis for their playoff run as the Oilers weren't going to make it. Anderson never got to play for the Canucks, the Oilers got a player who helped them and some veteran leadership for a couple of their young guys. They prevented a divisional rival from getting a helpful player. In the end, they got David Roberts from the Blues for making Anderson available too.

No player wants to get traded or claimed on waivers. I don't think you can worry about hurting people's feelings though with that sort of thing.


You, Mike, Crude all make valid points. Enough that I have *almost* changed my mind!

I guess for me it would end up being what the purpose was of the claim. Simply claiming a guy to screw the Leafs seems like a small advantage.
If the team believed there was a chance the player wanted to play for the Oilers AND there was any chance at all he would actually report then I would be on board with calling his bluff.


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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787695 is a reply to message #787662 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC is currently offline welcometotheOC
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2010
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:02

welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11

Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴


If people are over 35 and you retire, then the team isn't on the hook. You'll remember Pronger was a dispute because he was 34 when he signed his contract but 35 when it kicked in.

So you get him and he retires and then he comes off the cap, so no harm no foul other than screwing up things for Toronto.


Thought it was the opposite. A 35+ deal is on your cap no matter what.

That was to stop teams from giving backdiving multi-year deals to old players to reduce cap when everyone would know the player would just retire before the contract was over.


That's what I thought, too. I just wasn't sure if the signing team was responsible for the cap hit no matter what (retirement, trade, injury etc.).

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787701 is a reply to message #787695 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
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welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 14:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:02

welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11

Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴


If people are over 35 and you retire, then the team isn't on the hook. You'll remember Pronger was a dispute because he was 34 when he signed his contract but 35 when it kicked in.

So you get him and he retires and then he comes off the cap, so no harm no foul other than screwing up things for Toronto.


Thought it was the opposite. A 35+ deal is on your cap no matter what.

That was to stop teams from giving backdiving multi-year deals to old players to reduce cap when everyone would know the player would just retire before the contract was over.


That's what I thought, too. I just wasn't sure if the signing team was responsible for the cap hit no matter what (retirement, trade, injury etc.).


https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2020/7/15/21312974/nhl-cb a-35year-old-contracts-nhl-contracts-nhl-free-agency

The long and short of this is you used to be right, but now it's all good as long as the deal isn't back-diving (which Spezza's is not).

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787702 is a reply to message #787695 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10782
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
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welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 14:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:02

welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11

Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴


If people are over 35 and you retire, then the team isn't on the hook. You'll remember Pronger was a dispute because he was 34 when he signed his contract but 35 when it kicked in.

So you get him and he retires and then he comes off the cap, so no harm no foul other than screwing up things for Toronto.


Thought it was the opposite. A 35+ deal is on your cap no matter what.

That was to stop teams from giving backdiving multi-year deals to old players to reduce cap when everyone would know the player would just retire before the contract was over.


That's what I thought, too. I just wasn't sure if the signing team was responsible for the cap hit no matter what (retirement, trade, injury etc.).


Can't find anything that says the signing team would be stuck with the cap hit if the player retired after being traded/claimed by someone else.

Not sure if that case has happened any time recently, not sure if anyone can think of one? Guys like Marleau and others had no incentive to retire because of how much money they had left to be paid (just do LTIR or force the buyout) and the 35+ rule and cap structure rules have already stopped teams from making sneaky deals with years a player goes in never intending to honor.

Maybe Datsyuk is an example? 35+ deal, and Detroit traded away his cap hit for the final year to Arizona.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787703 is a reply to message #787701 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10782
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
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Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 15:01

welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 14:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:02

welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11

Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴


If people are over 35 and you retire, then the team isn't on the hook. You'll remember Pronger was a dispute because he was 34 when he signed his contract but 35 when it kicked in.

So you get him and he retires and then he comes off the cap, so no harm no foul other than screwing up things for Toronto.


Thought it was the opposite. A 35+ deal is on your cap no matter what.

That was to stop teams from giving backdiving multi-year deals to old players to reduce cap when everyone would know the player would just retire before the contract was over.


That's what I thought, too. I just wasn't sure if the signing team was responsible for the cap hit no matter what (retirement, trade, injury etc.).


https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2020/7/15/21312974/nhl-cb a-35year-old-contracts-nhl-contracts-nhl-free-agency

The long and short of this is you used to be right, but now it's all good as long as the deal isn't back-diving (which Spezza's is not).


ah nice. No one is right :)

35+ with backdive cap hits move around and survive retirement. But, also, 35+ without backdive is just like any other deal, so doesn't even matter how old the player is. NHL trying to be nicer and not force teams to have to move around more honestly signed deals with older players.

Capfriendly needs to update their stuff. They mark every 35+ (based on signing age only) deal the same way when it doesn't have any significance for many of those deals.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 June 2021 15:16]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787729 is a reply to message #787661 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
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Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:35

PlusOne wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 20:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


I think you would lose any clout the team or GM have with players if you did that. Whether Spezza was right or wrong in his statement a lot of players would side with him and not be impressed with the Oilers.
In fact, if the Oilers did that knowing full well Spezza doesnt want to come there I wouldnt be impressed with them.



I disagree with this. The Oilers responsibility is to make their own team better, so if there's an opportunity to do so, then they should. Claiming him would give us an opportunity to convince him that there are good reasons to join the team and not retire. And if he does, well, too bad for the Leafs.

To respond to someone else, there is definitely NOT a clause allowing people to retire then immediately unretire and sign again with someone else. If there was, we'd see it happening a lot more often with old players on bad teams.

The Oilers did something like this in the Sather era. Glenn Anderson decided partway in to a season that he wanted to come back for one more year. He signed with Vancouver and wanted to play there, but they had to waive him to activate him. He had a bunch of tough words about it as he went on waivers threatening not to report if he got claimed by anyone else, but Sather claimed him anyhow. Sather then got him to show up - even though he was a little grouchy about it. He played 17 games for the Oilers, mostly playing with Weight and Ciger. Sather let him leave near the trade deadline, waiving him so that he ended up with St. Louis for their playoff run as the Oilers weren't going to make it. Anderson never got to play for the Canucks, the Oilers got a player who helped them and some veteran leadership for a couple of their young guys. They prevented a divisional rival from getting a helpful player. In the end, they got David Roberts from the Blues for making Anderson available too.

No player wants to get traded or claimed on waivers. I don't think you can worry about hurting people's feelings though with that sort of thing.


I will find this. It was a Friedman piece on the 35+ players. Freakin’ confident in this one.


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 Re: No more Haaaaaas [message #787736 is a reply to message #787702 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
Kr55 wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 15:05

welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 14:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 09:02

welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 01:11

Adam wrote on Sat, 12 June 2021 00:34

welcometotheOC wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:54

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 23:21

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 20:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 15:52

Mike wrote on Fri, 11 June 2021 09:53

I'm so sick of bottom 6/9 guys where you really can't do much more than hope they break even. I don't want those guys anymore.

Someone mentioned Spezza and Thornton signing for close to league minimum. Ditto for Corey Perry. I know there are only a few of those every year, but people being paid millions per year to do this job should be finding these guys. They may not be world beaters, but when they are on the ice, there is at least a chance they will do better than break even.

And I don't want to let the brass off the hook, but AT LEAST get a good 3rd line (and 2nd). With 3 good lines, then you can afford a few minutes for a breather. You can't just have one line capable/likely to outscore the opposition. So they don't even need to find 7-8 guys. Get another legit top line winger, and a 3rd line. So 4 guys.


Spezza was pretty good this year, still has wheels and great shot.. with McD and LD on line #1, he probably would've been #2 center on this team.. that's an indication where our bottom 6 was, uncompetitive in the top half of this league.

I did think it was dumb that nobody picked him up on waivers when he threatened retirement. Make him retire, you can cost TO an asset.


100% agree


Wouldn’t you be stuck with his cap hit if he retired? even if it was just for 1 year…


Nah. he was over 35 when he signed the contract so all good.


? doesn’t that mean you are stuck with it? or is Toronto stuck with it because they signed him to it? It’s late, time to sleep 😴


If people are over 35 and you retire, then the team isn't on the hook. You'll remember Pronger was a dispute because he was 34 when he signed his contract but 35 when it kicked in.

So you get him and he retires and then he comes off the cap, so no harm no foul other than screwing up things for Toronto.


Thought it was the opposite. A 35+ deal is on your cap no matter what.

That was to stop teams from giving backdiving multi-year deals to old players to reduce cap when everyone would know the player would just retire before the contract was over.


That's what I thought, too. I just wasn't sure if the signing team was responsible for the cap hit no matter what (retirement, trade, injury etc.).


Can't find anything that says the signing team would be stuck with the cap hit if the player retired after being traded/claimed by someone else.

Not sure if that case has happened any time recently, not sure if anyone can think of one? Guys like Marleau and others had no incentive to retire because of how much money they had left to be paid (just do LTIR or force the buyout) and the 35+ rule and cap structure rules have already stopped teams from making sneaky deals with years a player goes in never intending to honor.

Maybe Datsyuk is an example? 35+ deal, and Detroit traded away his cap hit for the final year to Arizona.

I don't know about you but I will always picture Datsyuk in Coyotes colors. Pronger too. What a roster that was.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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