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Archibald Resigned [message #757135]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757137 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:35

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

It's a meh deal.

I would not have done it now. Of his 20 points, how many have come while playing with McDavid? I'm going to guess 12-14, despite a relatively small sample size. Someone probably can pull the WOWYs there.

Archibald has been okay. That's about it. I'm not sure he's earned a 50% year over year raise with his play this year, but again, it's nice that Oilers management will be at the cabin before US Independence Day...they'll be so rested for next year, and that's important. Holland isn't a young man any more!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757139 is a reply to message #757137 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:42

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

It's a meh deal.

I would not have done it now. Of his 20 points, how many have come while playing with McDavid? I'm going to guess 12-14, despite a relatively small sample size. Someone probably can pull the WOWYs there.

Archibald has been okay. That's about it. I'm not sure he's earned a 50% year over year raise with his play this year, but again, it's nice that Oilers management will be at the cabin before US Independence Day...they'll be so rested for next year, and that's important. Holland isn't a young man any more!

8 points with McDavid (4-4), 12 with Sheahan (7-5).

I don't mind it too much. Not a guy that I think will see his play fall off because he got a pay day, not old enough to decline much. Enough versatility in his game that he can stick in the lineup most of the time.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757140 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:42

Magnum
Messages: 839
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Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

I think that's too high. Seems like $1.250 could've been done. Glad to see he's back. Worried about Bear now.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757141 is a reply to message #757137 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:46

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

It's a meh deal.

I would not have done it now. Of his 20 points, how many have come while playing with McDavid? I'm going to guess 12-14, despite a relatively small sample size. Someone probably can pull the WOWYs there.

Archibald has been okay. That's about it. I'm not sure he's earned a 50% year over year raise with his play this year, but again, it's nice that Oilers management will be at the cabin before US Independence Day...they'll be so rested for next year, and that's important. Holland isn't a young man any more!

What a shock. Adam comes in to be Debbie downer on an Oiler move. I find it interesting that you aren't harping on numbers as much now but have resorted to taking pot shots about the Oilers management getting their business done earlier and continually say its so they can take more holidays.

He's fast, aggressive, shockingly physical for a small guy, great on the PK, a good guy and has 12 goals and 20 pts. It wouldn't shock me to see him finish with close to 15 goals and 25 pts. He's even shown in short spurts he can slide up a few lines and not look completely overmatched. He's not old either. He's EXACTLY what you want in a bottom 6 guy including production. At 1.5 mill, that isn't even expensive bottom money. This isn't a 1 yr thing, he did it last year as well and looks to be a classic Tippet guy he had on Arizona.

So what possible advantage is there to wait if you have a useful player you like who fills a role, is playing well and you can sign him to a pretty reasonable deal, what possible reason is there to wait? On what planet does his contract get cheaper?

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757142 is a reply to message #757140 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:50

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Magnum wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

I think that's too high. Seems like $1.250 could've been done. Glad to see he's back. Worried about Bear now.

I don't think you get him for that money. No chance. Some other team if he hit the market would give him more than what he got from the Oilers. I would bet money on it. I could see him scoring a few more goals and be close to 15 goals. Too me, he looks prime to be a Pisani type of player. A guy who if they do well in the playoffs goes off.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757143 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:54

Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

I hope they wait on Sheahan now. He has really been unimpressive for a while. He's a 4th line C at best on a good team. 3rd and 4th C spots should be summer projects.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757144 is a reply to message #757143 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 12:58

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:54

I hope they wait on Sheahan now. He has really been unimpressive for a while. He's a 4th line C at best on a good team. 3rd and 4th C spots should be summer projects.

I agree. Sheahan is a 4th line center playing in the 3rd line out of necessity. I wouldn't rush unless he wants around 1 mill which is fine for a 4th line center. Arch can be on your 3rd line though again, 1.5 mill is not expensive.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757147 is a reply to message #757142 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:04

JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:50

I could see him scoring a few more goals and be close to 15 goals. Too me, he looks prime to be a Pisani type of player. A guy who if they do well in the playoffs goes off.

I'd rather see what he does in the playoffs before signing him to a raise like that. Not sure why this needed to be done now instead of in 2 (hopefully 3) months.

Yearly reminder to all that resign and re-sign mean two completely different things.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757148 is a reply to message #757147 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:17

Oscargasm
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JPro wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 15:04

Yearly reminder to all that resign and re-sign mean two completely different things.

Amen. At first I was like, huh? Then I was like, oh neat.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757149 is a reply to message #757147 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:17

welcometotheOC
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Yeah I was wondering why he would quit on the team like that 😉
That bugs me too but don’t want to be too policee

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757151 is a reply to message #757147 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:23

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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JPro wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:50

I could see him scoring a few more goals and be close to 15 goals. Too me, he looks prime to be a Pisani type of player. A guy who if they do well in the playoffs goes off.

I'd rather see what he does in the playoffs before signing him to a raise like that. Not sure why this needed to be done now instead of in 2 (hopefully 3) months.

Yearly reminder to all that resign and re-sign mean two completely different things.

So you'd be OK if he got more than 1.5 mill because he will if he has a good playoff. That's a fact.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757152 is a reply to message #757141 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:29

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

It's a meh deal.

I would not have done it now. Of his 20 points, how many have come while playing with McDavid? I'm going to guess 12-14, despite a relatively small sample size. Someone probably can pull the WOWYs there.

Archibald has been okay. That's about it. I'm not sure he's earned a 50% year over year raise with his play this year, but again, it's nice that Oilers management will be at the cabin before US Independence Day...they'll be so rested for next year, and that's important. Holland isn't a young man any more!

What a shock. Adam comes in to be Debbie downer on an Oiler move. I find it interesting that you aren't harping on numbers as much now but have resorted to taking pot shots about the Oilers management getting their business done earlier and continually say its so they can take more holidays.

He's fast, aggressive, shockingly physical for a small guy, great on the PK, a good guy and has 12 goals and 20 pts. It wouldn't shock me to see him finish with close to 15 goals and 25 pts. He's even shown in short spurts he can slide up a few lines and not look completely overmatched. He's not old either. He's EXACTLY what you want in a bottom 6 guy including production. At 1.5 mill, that isn't even expensive bottom money. This isn't a 1 yr thing, he did it last year as well and looks to be a classic Tippet guy he had on Arizona.

So what possible advantage is there to wait if you have a useful player you like who fills a role, is playing well and you can sign him to a pretty reasonable deal, what possible reason is there to wait? On what planet does his contract get cheaper?

You're upset with me for being too optimistic on Puljujarvi, too pessimistic on team management...there's just no winning with you!!!

Unfortunately, your argument on the high desirability of Josh Archibald probably doesn't hold up. He had 12-10-22 in 68 games last year with the Coyotes - that came without any of the McDavid bump - and he still was a mid-summer signing (July 16th) last off-season, for just a single year at $1MM.

He's basically duplicated his results - possibly in part because he's got to play with McDavid and got a year older. There's nothing there that suggests to me that it was a slam dunk he'd get a 50% raise or an extra year on his deal.

As I said before, this isn't an awful signing, but it isn't a great one either and it's unclear why it had to happen so soon since it's not a team-friendly deal. The off-to-the-cabin comments are a little tongue in cheek of course, but the Oilers haven't historically been one of those teams where management grinds it out all summer. Re-upping everyone now isn't going to leave much room to do anything else in the summer - both from a cap perspective and a contracts and roster spot perspective so Holland (and Lowe, Nicholson and Keith Gretzky) can race to Kelowna to work on their tans!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757153 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

overdue
Messages: 493
Registered: October 2014

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I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757157 is a reply to message #757153 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:48

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

overdue wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

He's currently 257th in the league in scoring among forwards. Going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a guy who's just outside the top 250 isn't actually that difficult.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757159 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:55

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I like that Ol’Kenny is taking care of the depth players right now. Let’s him budget for impact player(s) in the offseason. Archi looks like a glue guy. Reminds me of Hendricks. The guy plays up and down the lineup and can PK.

More than a meh signing, but not as significant as Bear re-up. This team could use some consistency. We know what we get in Archibald.

[Updated on: Fri, 06 March 2020 21:21]

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757160 is a reply to message #757148 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:58

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:17

JPro wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 15:04

Yearly reminder to all that resign and re-sign mean two completely different things.

Amen. At first I was like, huh? Then I was like, oh neat.

I thought he might have developed an equipment allergy.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757161 is a reply to message #757151 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:59

Magnum
Messages: 839
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Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:23

JPro wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:50

I could see him scoring a few more goals and be close to 15 goals. Too me, he looks prime to be a Pisani type of player. A guy who if they do well in the playoffs goes off.

I'd rather see what he does in the playoffs before signing him to a raise like that. Not sure why this needed to be done now instead of in 2 (hopefully 3) months.

Yearly reminder to all that resign and re-sign mean two completely different things.

So you'd be OK if he got more than 1.5 mill because he will if he has a good playoff. That's a fact.

Or less if the team wet the bed in the first round.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757162 is a reply to message #757157 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 14:59

inverno76
Messages: 2343
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Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:48

overdue wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

He's currently 257th in the league in scoring among forwards. Going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a guy who's just outside the top 250 isn't actually that difficult.

Scoring isn’t everything. Not every player is going to be a top 100 scorer. He contributes in all areas. His 10 plus goals seem easy to replace, but our history has shown that’s not as easy as we want to believe.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757164 is a reply to message #757162 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:05

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:48

overdue wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

He's currently 257th in the league in scoring among forwards. Going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a guy who's just outside the top 250 isn't actually that difficult.

Scoring isn’t everything. Not every player is going to be a top 100 scorer. He contributes in all areas. His 10 plus goals seem easy to replace, but our history has shown that’s not as easy as we want to believe.

Yep - it isn't everything, but it's pretty damn important when you're talking about forwards. You can train anyone who can skate to be a decent checker, but the scoring is the hardest part of the job. He's still a minus player too, so it's not like he's been completely stingy as a checker. Part of a great PK, but given the turnaround on penalty killing and the fact much of it is similar personnel to last year, I'm inclined to give a lot of the credit to the coach.

If you say broadly that the top 91 forwards are first liners, and continue on down the list like that, then Archibald on his stats is a low end third liner. The money isn't obscene, but this wasn't a guy we couldn't afford to lose. Extremely replaceable part.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757165 is a reply to message #757162 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:06

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:48

overdue wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

He's currently 257th in the league in scoring among forwards. Going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a guy who's just outside the top 250 isn't actually that difficult.

Scoring isn’t everything. Not every player is going to be a top 100 scorer. He contributes in all areas. His 10 plus goals seem easy to replace, but our history has shown that’s not as easy as we want to believe.

Yeah, I don't think it's as easy as it seems to to end up with a guy that works well with your team from the 1M player market. Hockey world is full of duds looking for a cheap deal in the NHL. Once in a while you can stick with a guy that fits in well. Archie is on the borderline of that.

7 goals playing with Sheahan too. That's actually impressive in my books :) He's been better than Sheahan as well on our PK.

[Updated on: Fri, 06 March 2020 15:08]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757166 is a reply to message #757157 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:09

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

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Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:48

overdue wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

He's currently 257th in the league in scoring among forwards. Going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a guy who's just outside the top 250 isn't actually that difficult.

I don't know about that. I've been mulling over the idea, that a GM's job is more or less to manage that bottom two thirds of the team, while the top talent mostly comes via luck. For real... MacT got McDavid, Nuge, and Drai. I think the difference between the 2020 Oilers and the 2007 to 2019 Oilers, is good support staff (bottom two thirds).

While I'm not married to this theory, I believe that there's some truth to it. Positioning the pawns if you will.

Holland is positioning the pawns, so maybe he can strategize the knights and bishops in the offseason. That, or the Okanogan!

Don't look now, but Gretz officially has a vineyard estate in the Okanogan!

https://www.gretzkyestateswines.com/#/

https://www.gretzkyestateswines.com/static/frontend/Peller/wg-estate/en_US/images/pages/visit/dining-events.jpg

He truly is the GRAPE one!

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757167 is a reply to message #757157 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:10

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

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Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:48

overdue wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

He's currently 257th in the league in scoring among forwards. Going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a guy who's just outside the top 250 isn't actually that difficult.

I don't know about that. I've been mulling over the idea, that a GM's job is more or less to manage that bottom two thirds of the team, while the top talent mostly comes via luck. For real... MacT got McDavid, Nuge, and Drai. I think the difference between the 2020 Oilers and the 2007 to 2019 Oilers, is good support staff (bottom two thirds).

While I'm not married to this theory, I believe that there's some truth to it. Positioning the pawns if you will. So I guess I think it's pretty important.

Holland is positioning the pawns, so maybe he can strategize the knights and bishops in the offseason. That, or the Okanogan!

Don't look now, but Gretz officially has a vineyard estate in the Okanogan!

https://www.gretzkyestateswines.com/#/

https://www.gretzkyestateswines.com/static/frontend/Peller/wg-estate/en_US/images/pages/visit/dining-events.jpg

He truly is the GRAPE one!

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757171 is a reply to message #757152 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:31

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

It's a meh deal.

I would not have done it now. Of his 20 points, how many have come while playing with McDavid? I'm going to guess 12-14, despite a relatively small sample size. Someone probably can pull the WOWYs there.

Archibald has been okay. That's about it. I'm not sure he's earned a 50% year over year raise with his play this year, but again, it's nice that Oilers management will be at the cabin before US Independence Day...they'll be so rested for next year, and that's important. Holland isn't a young man any more!

What a shock. Adam comes in to be Debbie downer on an Oiler move. I find it interesting that you aren't harping on numbers as much now but have resorted to taking pot shots about the Oilers management getting their business done earlier and continually say its so they can take more holidays.

He's fast, aggressive, shockingly physical for a small guy, great on the PK, a good guy and has 12 goals and 20 pts. It wouldn't shock me to see him finish with close to 15 goals and 25 pts. He's even shown in short spurts he can slide up a few lines and not look completely overmatched. He's not old either. He's EXACTLY what you want in a bottom 6 guy including production. At 1.5 mill, that isn't even expensive bottom money. This isn't a 1 yr thing, he did it last year as well and looks to be a classic Tippet guy he had on Arizona.

So what possible advantage is there to wait if you have a useful player you like who fills a role, is playing well and you can sign him to a pretty reasonable deal, what possible reason is there to wait? On what planet does his contract get cheaper?

You're upset with me for being too optimistic on Puljujarvi, too pessimistic on team management...there's just no winning with you!!!

Unfortunately, your argument on the high desirability of Josh Archibald probably doesn't hold up. He had 12-10-22 in 68 games last year with the Coyotes - that came without any of the McDavid bump - and he still was a mid-summer signing (July 16th) last off-season, for just a single year at $1MM.

He's basically duplicated his results - possibly in part because he's got to play with McDavid and got a year older. There's nothing there that suggests to me that it was a slam dunk he'd get a 50% raise or an extra year on his deal.

As I said before, this isn't an awful signing, but it isn't a great one either and it's unclear why it had to happen so soon since it's not a team-friendly deal. The off-to-the-cabin comments are a little tongue in cheek of course, but the Oilers haven't historically been one of those teams where management grinds it out all summer. Re-upping everyone now isn't going to leave much room to do anything else in the summer - both from a cap perspective and a contracts and roster spot perspective so Holland (and Lowe, Nicholson and Keith Gretzky) can race to Kelowna to work on their tans!

I tell you what, if you can explain to me the difference between Brandon Tanev and Archibald and why it would make sense to have waited, I will listen to your argument and maybe change my mind. I am a reasonable guy. Give me a good argument.

Tanev last year was 27. Career bottom 6 guy who's fast, physical, good on the PK with not a lot of NHL experience. To date he has 260 NHL games, 35 goals, 76 pts. So .135 goals/game and 0.29 pts/game. IN his UFA season he had 14 goals, 29 pts. In the offseason, a really good team and organization in Pittsburgh signed him for 6 yrs at 3.5 mill with a Mod NTC.

Archibald is 27. Career bottom 6 guy who's fast, physical, good on the PK with not a lot of NHL experience. To date he has 180 NHL games, 32 goals, 56 pts. So .178 goals/game and 0.31 pts/game. This season he has 12 goals, 20 pts. Now there is still 14 games left so he could probably get close to Tanev's goals in his UFA season and somewhat close to points. The Oilers signed him for 2 yrs at 1.5 mill per.

So please explain to me why it would have been a great idea to wait? I just listed an EXACT comparable to Archie. Same roles, similar style of play, same age, similar points. In fact Arch has better production. Tanev got almost 2.5 times what the Oilers just signed him on the open market. I would have never thought Tanev would get the deal he got from the Pens, especially from a team like the Pens. This season he has 11 goals and 25 pts. So explain to me the difference between the 2 players and the advantage of waiting for the Oilers?

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757174 is a reply to message #757171 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:45

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 15:31

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

It's a meh deal.

I would not have done it now. Of his 20 points, how many have come while playing with McDavid? I'm going to guess 12-14, despite a relatively small sample size. Someone probably can pull the WOWYs there.

Archibald has been okay. That's about it. I'm not sure he's earned a 50% year over year raise with his play this year, but again, it's nice that Oilers management will be at the cabin before US Independence Day...they'll be so rested for next year, and that's important. Holland isn't a young man any more!

What a shock. Adam comes in to be Debbie downer on an Oiler move. I find it interesting that you aren't harping on numbers as much now but have resorted to taking pot shots about the Oilers management getting their business done earlier and continually say its so they can take more holidays.

He's fast, aggressive, shockingly physical for a small guy, great on the PK, a good guy and has 12 goals and 20 pts. It wouldn't shock me to see him finish with close to 15 goals and 25 pts. He's even shown in short spurts he can slide up a few lines and not look completely overmatched. He's not old either. He's EXACTLY what you want in a bottom 6 guy including production. At 1.5 mill, that isn't even expensive bottom money. This isn't a 1 yr thing, he did it last year as well and looks to be a classic Tippet guy he had on Arizona.

So what possible advantage is there to wait if you have a useful player you like who fills a role, is playing well and you can sign him to a pretty reasonable deal, what possible reason is there to wait? On what planet does his contract get cheaper?

You're upset with me for being too optimistic on Puljujarvi, too pessimistic on team management...there's just no winning with you!!!

Unfortunately, your argument on the high desirability of Josh Archibald probably doesn't hold up. He had 12-10-22 in 68 games last year with the Coyotes - that came without any of the McDavid bump - and he still was a mid-summer signing (July 16th) last off-season, for just a single year at $1MM.

He's basically duplicated his results - possibly in part because he's got to play with McDavid and got a year older. There's nothing there that suggests to me that it was a slam dunk he'd get a 50% raise or an extra year on his deal.

As I said before, this isn't an awful signing, but it isn't a great one either and it's unclear why it had to happen so soon since it's not a team-friendly deal. The off-to-the-cabin comments are a little tongue in cheek of course, but the Oilers haven't historically been one of those teams where management grinds it out all summer. Re-upping everyone now isn't going to leave much room to do anything else in the summer - both from a cap perspective and a contracts and roster spot perspective so Holland (and Lowe, Nicholson and Keith Gretzky) can race to Kelowna to work on their tans!

I tell you what, if you can explain to me the difference between Brandon Tanev and Archibald and why it would make sense to have waited, I will listen to your argument and maybe change my mind. I am a reasonable guy. Give me a good argument.

Tanev last year was 27. Career bottom 6 guy who's fast, physical, good on the PK with not a lot of NHL experience. To date he has 260 NHL games, 35 goals, 76 pts. So .135 goals/game and 0.29 pts/game. IN his UFA season he had 14 goals, 29 pts. In the offseason, a really good team and organization in Pittsburgh signed him for 6 yrs at 3.5 mill with a Mod NTC.

Archibald is 27. Career bottom 6 guy who's fast, physical, good on the PK with not a lot of NHL experience. To date he has 180 NHL games, 32 goals, 56 pts. So .178 goals/game and 0.31 pts/game. This season he has 12 goals, 20 pts. Now there is still 14 games left so he could probably get close to Tanev's goals in his UFA season and somewhat close to points. The Oilers signed him for 2 yrs at 1.5 mill per.

So please explain to me why it would have been a great idea to wait? I just listed an EXACT comparable to Archie. Same roles, similar style of play, same age, similar points. In fact Arch has better production. Tanev got almost 2.5 times what the Oilers just signed him on the open market. I would have never thought Tanev would get the deal he got from the Pens, especially from a team like the Pens. This season he has 11 goals and 25 pts. So explain to me the difference between the 2 players and the advantage of waiting for the Oilers?

The Penguins GM is highly over-rated. He's made a number of terrible moves, and hasn't shown any real good restraint in contract negotiations. That's a terrible deal for Tanev. He could have signed Archibald last summer for maybe even cheaper than the $1MM we're paying him. Likewise, there will be other guys this summer who get a couple weeks in and haven't found a home yet and they'll accept bargain contracts to guarantee they have a place to play.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757176 is a reply to message #757174 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:55

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 15:45

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 15:31

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:29

Oilers resigned Archibald for 2 yrs at 1.5 per. I think that's a pretty decent contract for a guy who has 12 goals, 20 pts in 59 games. Small guy but is physical, fast, brings it and is critical to the PK. I think it's a solid deal for a guy who might flirt with 15 goals.

Cue Adam's rant about how he should be taking a pay cut and how it's a bad contract.

It's a meh deal.

I would not have done it now. Of his 20 points, how many have come while playing with McDavid? I'm going to guess 12-14, despite a relatively small sample size. Someone probably can pull the WOWYs there.

Archibald has been okay. That's about it. I'm not sure he's earned a 50% year over year raise with his play this year, but again, it's nice that Oilers management will be at the cabin before US Independence Day...they'll be so rested for next year, and that's important. Holland isn't a young man any more!

What a shock. Adam comes in to be Debbie downer on an Oiler move. I find it interesting that you aren't harping on numbers as much now but have resorted to taking pot shots about the Oilers management getting their business done earlier and continually say its so they can take more holidays.

He's fast, aggressive, shockingly physical for a small guy, great on the PK, a good guy and has 12 goals and 20 pts. It wouldn't shock me to see him finish with close to 15 goals and 25 pts. He's even shown in short spurts he can slide up a few lines and not look completely overmatched. He's not old either. He's EXACTLY what you want in a bottom 6 guy including production. At 1.5 mill, that isn't even expensive bottom money. This isn't a 1 yr thing, he did it last year as well and looks to be a classic Tippet guy he had on Arizona.

So what possible advantage is there to wait if you have a useful player you like who fills a role, is playing well and you can sign him to a pretty reasonable deal, what possible reason is there to wait? On what planet does his contract get cheaper?

You're upset with me for being too optimistic on Puljujarvi, too pessimistic on team management...there's just no winning with you!!!

Unfortunately, your argument on the high desirability of Josh Archibald probably doesn't hold up. He had 12-10-22 in 68 games last year with the Coyotes - that came without any of the McDavid bump - and he still was a mid-summer signing (July 16th) last off-season, for just a single year at $1MM.

He's basically duplicated his results - possibly in part because he's got to play with McDavid and got a year older. There's nothing there that suggests to me that it was a slam dunk he'd get a 50% raise or an extra year on his deal.

As I said before, this isn't an awful signing, but it isn't a great one either and it's unclear why it had to happen so soon since it's not a team-friendly deal. The off-to-the-cabin comments are a little tongue in cheek of course, but the Oilers haven't historically been one of those teams where management grinds it out all summer. Re-upping everyone now isn't going to leave much room to do anything else in the summer - both from a cap perspective and a contracts and roster spot perspective so Holland (and Lowe, Nicholson and Keith Gretzky) can race to Kelowna to work on their tans!

I tell you what, if you can explain to me the difference between Brandon Tanev and Archibald and why it would make sense to have waited, I will listen to your argument and maybe change my mind. I am a reasonable guy. Give me a good argument.

Tanev last year was 27. Career bottom 6 guy who's fast, physical, good on the PK with not a lot of NHL experience. To date he has 260 NHL games, 35 goals, 76 pts. So .135 goals/game and 0.29 pts/game. IN his UFA season he had 14 goals, 29 pts. In the offseason, a really good team and organization in Pittsburgh signed him for 6 yrs at 3.5 mill with a Mod NTC.

Archibald is 27. Career bottom 6 guy who's fast, physical, good on the PK with not a lot of NHL experience. To date he has 180 NHL games, 32 goals, 56 pts. So .178 goals/game and 0.31 pts/game. This season he has 12 goals, 20 pts. Now there is still 14 games left so he could probably get close to Tanev's goals in his UFA season and somewhat close to points. The Oilers signed him for 2 yrs at 1.5 mill per.

So please explain to me why it would have been a great idea to wait? I just listed an EXACT comparable to Archie. Same roles, similar style of play, same age, similar points. In fact Arch has better production. Tanev got almost 2.5 times what the Oilers just signed him on the open market. I would have never thought Tanev would get the deal he got from the Pens, especially from a team like the Pens. This season he has 11 goals and 25 pts. So explain to me the difference between the 2 players and the advantage of waiting for the Oilers?

The Penguins GM is highly over-rated. He's made a number of terrible moves, and hasn't shown any real good restraint in contract negotiations. That's a terrible deal for Tanev. He could have signed Archibald last summer for maybe even cheaper than the $1MM we're paying him. Likewise, there will be other guys this summer who get a couple weeks in and haven't found a home yet and they'll accept bargain contracts to guarantee they have a place to play.

Shocker, you didn't answer the question.

I think the contract for Tanev was terrible but it doesn't change the fact he's a direct comparable who got almost 2.5 times what Archie got on the open market. If Archie hit the open market, I think he gets no less then what he signed for and probably more. At minimum more term.

Could you find a guy making slightly less than Archie? Maybe but you can just as easy not.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757177 is a reply to message #757176 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 15:58

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

How about a guy with numbers like this:

69GP 11-10-21
60GP 3-15-18

Bigger guy, sometimes plays with a bit of sandpaper, decent penalty killer, at times mediocre play 5v5...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757178 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 16:02

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

This sounds like too much, but to be fair, maybe he does better when his line gets a real center...

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757179 is a reply to message #757157 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 16:08

overdue
Messages: 493
Registered: October 2014

No Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:48

overdue wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:33

I don't mind it, fast and small is in ( Yamamoto and Nygard ) He brings speed, decent skill and tenacity and can slot in almost anywhere if needed. Penalty killing is huge too. If they don't sign him they have to go looking for a guy that can play like him.

He's currently 257th in the league in scoring among forwards. Going to go out on a limb and say that replacing a guy who's just outside the top 250 isn't actually that difficult.

Team chemistry plays a big part in the success of a team. When you have a known quantity that has proven himself to his team and coaches, why would you replace him with a maybe if you have a chance to hang on to him for awhile. He's not paid to score as much as to bring a full 200 ft game and contribute in both ends. When he does score, and he's proven he can, it's a bonus. You need those types of role players.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757181 is a reply to message #757157 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 16:17

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

No Cups

257th is 3rd-line production. I'm OK (but just OK, not excited) about $1.5M for solid 3rd-line numbers.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757182 is a reply to message #757161 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 16:29

JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Magnum wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:23

JPro wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 14:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 06 March 2020 12:50

I could see him scoring a few more goals and be close to 15 goals. Too me, he looks prime to be a Pisani type of player. A guy who if they do well in the playoffs goes off.

I'd rather see what he does in the playoffs before signing him to a raise like that. Not sure why this needed to be done now instead of in 2 (hopefully 3) months.

Yearly reminder to all that resign and re-sign mean two completely different things.

So you'd be OK if he got more than 1.5 mill because he will if he has a good playoff. That's a fact.

Or less if the team wet the bed in the first round.

This guy sees the future.

I'd gladly pay Archibald more if he earned it. Not sure he did yet. But this organization loves paying for potential. That said, it's small money and the cap is going up so I really don't care. I'll harp on the Kassian deal many more times instead.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757190 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Fri, 06 March 2020 22:48

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

He's a legitimate 3rd line player that can move up if needed. I like the deal.

Go check CapFriendly and filter recent deals to this price range, and it fits right in. Min wage goes up to $700,000, cap goes up $3-5 million, $1.5 million isn't a lot anymore.

Steal compared to Kassian.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757198 is a reply to message #757135 ]	Sat, 07 March 2020 09:36

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Here is an interesting stat from Jon Willis.

Quote:

Josh Archibald is one of just nine forwards to play at least 250 minutes 4v5 since the start of 2017-18 and have a GA/60 under 5.00.

(Jujhar Khaira is another.)

He is an elite penalty killer for whatever reason. And it's not like our goalies are top of the league.

Assuming a cap of 83M (very consevative), this would be equivalent to a contract of 1.08M with a 60M cap.

I think this is a good deal. He is very much an NHL player, has two seasons of 20 points, and is elite on the PK longer than just a season.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757199 is a reply to message #757198 ]	Sat, 07 March 2020 09:41

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Sat, 07 March 2020 09:36

Here is an interesting stat from Jon Willis.

Quote:

Josh Archibald is one of just nine forwards to play at least 250 minutes 4v5 since the start of 2017-18 and have a GA/60 under 5.00.

(Jujhar Khaira is another.)

He is an elite penalty killer for whatever reason. And it's not like our goalies are top of the league.

Assuming a cap of 83M (very consevative), this would be equivalent to a contract of 1.08M with a 60M cap.

I think this is a good deal. He is very much an NHL player, has two seasons of 20 points, and is elite on the PK longer than just a season.

I don’t know why they don’t pay salaries as a percentage of the cap. You get 1.5% of the cap, you get 2.317%, you get 9.36%. Seems easier than guessing what the cap will be at the end of a six year contract.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Archibald Resigned [message #757200 is a reply to message #757199 ]	Sat, 07 March 2020 11:14

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 07 March 2020 09:41

smyth260 wrote on Sat, 07 March 2020 09:36

Here is an interesting stat from Jon Willis.

Quote:

Josh Archibald is one of just nine forwards to play at least 250 minutes 4v5 since the start of 2017-18 and have a GA/60 under 5.00.

(Jujhar Khaira is another.)

He is an elite penalty killer for whatever reason. And it's not like our goalies are top of the league.

Assuming a cap of 83M (very consevative), this would be equivalent to a contract of 1.08M with a 60M cap.

I think this is a good deal. He is very much an NHL player, has two seasons of 20 points, and is elite on the PK longer than just a season.

I don’t know why they don’t pay salaries as a percentage of the cap. You get 1.5% of the cap, you get 2.317%, you get 9.36%. Seems easier than guessing what the cap will be at the end of a six year contract.

Yeah, but how are owners going to dangle big carrots, that later become small carrots, in front of players?

Then again, if that happened, a new game would be on. The discussion of the cap, and increases would change a lot.

You've got to remember, barely anyone in the NHL, except eMBA-Craig, has business training. So it's always going to be question around actual dollars, even though everyone understands percentages.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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